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Contributors to this thread:
jdee 20-Nov-17
JTV 20-Nov-17
Pig Doc 20-Nov-17
Gray Ghost 20-Nov-17
JTV 20-Nov-17
Bowfreak 20-Nov-17
tonyo6302 20-Nov-17
Pig Doc 20-Nov-17
JTV 20-Nov-17
Pig Doc 20-Nov-17
Whitey 20-Nov-17
sleepyhunter 20-Nov-17
Gray Ghost 20-Nov-17
Fulldraw1972 20-Nov-17
Glunt@work 20-Nov-17
Fulldraw1972 20-Nov-17
tonyo6302 20-Nov-17
Gray Ghost 20-Nov-17
sleepyhunter 20-Nov-17
Rocky 20-Nov-17
Amoebus 20-Nov-17
Pig Doc 20-Nov-17
Gray Ghost 20-Nov-17
tonyo6302 20-Nov-17
Whitey 20-Nov-17
Pig Doc 20-Nov-17
Gray Ghost 20-Nov-17
Rocky 20-Nov-17
Gray Ghost 20-Nov-17
Whitey 20-Nov-17
Thumper 20-Nov-17
NvaGvUp 20-Nov-17
Pig Doc 20-Nov-17
Rocky 20-Nov-17
Pig Doc 20-Nov-17
Tonybear61 20-Nov-17
BIG BEAR 20-Nov-17
Paul 20-Nov-17
Pig Doc 20-Nov-17
Beendare 20-Nov-17
Pig Doc 20-Nov-17
Thumper 20-Nov-17
HDE 20-Nov-17
SB 20-Nov-17
Fulldraw1972 20-Nov-17
Fulldraw1972 20-Nov-17
BIG BEAR 20-Nov-17
Fulldraw1972 20-Nov-17
BIG BEAR 20-Nov-17
Fulldraw1972 20-Nov-17
BIG BEAR 20-Nov-17
Fulldraw1972 20-Nov-17
BIG BEAR 21-Nov-17
gflight 21-Nov-17
Fulldraw1972 21-Nov-17
Fulldraw1972 21-Nov-17
gflight 21-Nov-17
tonyo6302 21-Nov-17
BIG BEAR 21-Nov-17
BIG BEAR 21-Nov-17
Rocky 21-Nov-17
Pig Doc 21-Nov-17
jdee 21-Nov-17
Pig Doc 21-Nov-17
Rhody 21-Nov-17
Gray Ghost 21-Nov-17
BIG BEAR 21-Nov-17
Joey Ward 21-Nov-17
BIG BEAR 21-Nov-17
Pig Doc 21-Nov-17
Gray Ghost 21-Nov-17
BIG BEAR 21-Nov-17
tonyo6302 21-Nov-17
Pig Doc 21-Nov-17
BIG BEAR 21-Nov-17
Pig Doc 21-Nov-17
BIG BEAR 21-Nov-17
Pig Doc 21-Nov-17
jdee 21-Nov-17
Pig Doc 21-Nov-17
BIG BEAR 21-Nov-17
Rocky 21-Nov-17
BIG BEAR 21-Nov-17
Pig Doc 21-Nov-17
HDE 21-Nov-17
Jim Moore 21-Nov-17
Mad dog 21-Nov-17
Gray Ghost 21-Nov-17
Pig Doc 21-Nov-17
BIG BEAR 21-Nov-17
Rocky 21-Nov-17
Gray Ghost 21-Nov-17
Pig Doc 21-Nov-17
Solo 21-Nov-17
Paul 21-Nov-17
BIG BEAR 21-Nov-17
sleepyhunter 21-Nov-17
Solo 21-Nov-17
Thumper 21-Nov-17
Mad dog 21-Nov-17
Rocky 21-Nov-17
sleepyhunter 22-Nov-17
Pig Doc 22-Nov-17
Solo 22-Nov-17
MT in MO 22-Nov-17
Pig Doc 23-Nov-17
Fulldraw1972 23-Nov-17
BIG BEAR 23-Nov-17
Fulldraw1972 23-Nov-17
BIG BEAR 23-Nov-17
Pig Doc 23-Nov-17
Glunt@work 23-Nov-17
Fulldraw1972 23-Nov-17
BIG BEAR 23-Nov-17
BIG BEAR 23-Nov-17
Fulldraw1972 23-Nov-17
Pig Doc 23-Nov-17
BIG BEAR 23-Nov-17
Fulldraw1972 23-Nov-17
BIG BEAR 23-Nov-17
Pig Doc 23-Nov-17
Sixby 23-Nov-17
HDE 23-Nov-17
Fulldraw1972 23-Nov-17
BIG BEAR 23-Nov-17
BIG BEAR 23-Nov-17
Fulldraw1972 23-Nov-17
Pig Doc 23-Nov-17
Fulldraw1972 23-Nov-17
BIG BEAR 23-Nov-17
Fulldraw1972 23-Nov-17
BIG BEAR 23-Nov-17
From: jdee
20-Nov-17
I have not watched an NFL game all season and probably never will again !! I hear yesterday a Raiders player sat for our national anthem but stood for Mexico's, they were playing in Mexico. I guess he doesn't realize there are black people in the military defending the flag and he is making millions of dollars living and playing in America. IMHO they should Lynch him.

From: JTV
20-Nov-17
I quit watching the NFL last season, this season just confirms I was correct to do so... if a commercial comes on advertising for the games, I change it ... I will have nothing to do with them...

From: Pig Doc
20-Nov-17
I attended the Vikings/Rams game yesterday. A sailor sang the anthem and everyone stood for it. Big American flag covered the entire field. Had a blast! Tickets (luxury box) were given to me by a friend. Free food and drinks. Only money I spent was tips for the waiters. I'm not going to let a few crybabies affect my life.

From: Gray Ghost
20-Nov-17
I'm with you Pig Doc. Life is too short to worry about the politics of a few over-paid and under-educated entertainers.

It is amusing how the "boycotters" can't stop talking about it, though.

Matt

From: JTV
20-Nov-17
but yet one of the vultures is here talking about it ^^^ .... smh ....

From: Bowfreak
20-Nov-17
I'm not boycotting. I quit watching when the Bengals gave away the playoff game to the Steelers a few years ago. I have watched them religiously since I was a kid and I realized that day that they will never beat anyone if they can lose that game. The kneelers have however just solidified my decision.

From: tonyo6302
20-Nov-17
NFL Owners probably should study the "Dixie Chicks" business model, then make the appropriate decisions.

. .

Slippery slope of what we Americans will tolerate, since removal of prayer from schools.

I personally will not be tolerant of the NFL and the bended knee.

From: Pig Doc
20-Nov-17
One thing that struck me was the thousands of people working at the stadium. Security, limo drivers, ticket takers, concessions workers, waiters, janitors and on and on. Yeah it's part time work but important nonetheless. I gave a big tip to a waitress and she gave me a big smile. Told me she makes $1,000 in tips on a good day and could not make it financially without the part time job at the stadium. Every hotel and restaurant within a mile of the stadium were all doing robust business. Talked with a young Rams fan that's in the military and drove all the way from North Carolina to see the game. 65,000 people having fun. Felt good to be part of it all. Sit home and pout if you like.

From: JTV
20-Nov-17
really dont care ....

From: Pig Doc
20-Nov-17
Liar ;)

From: Whitey
20-Nov-17
Whaling used to provide a lot of jobs too! CTE will get them first

From: sleepyhunter
20-Nov-17
If I got free tickets to go see a NFL game I probably would go. Putting out my own money. Not a chance. It's far easier to watch on TV most of the time I don't watch at all. Never been into team sports.

From: Gray Ghost
20-Nov-17
Pig Doc,

During the NFL lockout several years ago, I recall one study that showed approximately 3700 jobs (both direct and indirect) per team, or 115,000 jobs league-wide, would be lost during the lockout. They estimated that each of the 32 NFL cities could lose up to $160 million in revenues.

I'm sure those numbers would be more staggering, today.

Matt

From: Fulldraw1972
20-Nov-17
To me it’s not about disrespect. To me it’s about them playing a football game. A game I love. I would have gave away my left ___ to play in the nfl. Everywhere you look it’s politics. Why can’t a football game be about a football game instead of adding politics to it?

Yesterday was the first Sunday since September 1st I wasn’t hunting. I decided I needed a day away from hunting. I payed around and watched movies all day. Never once did I think of turning the tv on to watch a game. Never once did I think about kneeling players. It was a very relaxing day.

From: Glunt@work
20-Nov-17
If an otherwise great restaurant has cockroaches in the salad and after months doesn't correct the problem, it's not the customer's fault if business drops off.

From: Fulldraw1972
20-Nov-17
To me it’s not about disrespect. To me it’s about them playing a football game. A game I love. I would have gave away my left ___ to play in the nfl. Everywhere you look it’s politics. Why can’t a football game be about a football game instead of adding politics to it?

Yesterday was the first Sunday since September 1st I wasn’t hunting. I decided I needed a day away from hunting. I payed around and watched movies all day. Never once did I think of turning the tv on to watch a game. Never once did I think about kneeling players. It was a very relaxing day.

From: tonyo6302
20-Nov-17
Pig Doc and Grey Ghost,

.. ..

.. ..

Since you claim ( and it is believable ) many jobs associated with the NFL Games, then would not you also claim that the players kneeling had hurt those very same people, since the stadium attendance is down?

I would guess that the "Dixie Chicks" business model is definitely hurting those that work at the stadiums part time.

From: Gray Ghost
20-Nov-17

Gray Ghost's Link
Tonyo,

The lowest stadium attendance in the league is Cincinnati, and they're still averaging over 54K per game. Dallas is 1st with over 92K per game. The Denver Broncos have sold out their home games for a record 390 games straight.

I think the concession workers are probably doing fine.

Matt

From: sleepyhunter
20-Nov-17
Yes, and it was very entertaining to hear Dallas got pummeled last night, 92K fans went home last night thinking about all the money they wasted going to that game. Hopefully some Eagle fans were there, probably not many.

From: Rocky
20-Nov-17
Each to his own. I constantly hear "principles" being bandied about here on this site. I imagine entertainment reigns supreme and above in that regard, buttressed by and validating the argument to attend by way of the economic benefit that it may provide to others.

"It is amusing how the "boycotters" can't stop talking about it, though. Life is too short to worry about the politics of a few over-paid and under-educated entertainers". Amusing more so is that you happily contribute ludicrous sums to these over-paid and UNDER-EDUCATED entertainers who, well, as you yourself admit, entertain you.

The Rock

From: Amoebus
20-Nov-17
You Raider and Bengal fans have picked a good year to boycott them.

I can't imagine there a lot of empty seats at the Viking's game yesterday?

From: Pig Doc
20-Nov-17
Correct Amoebus. Capacity crowd yesterday at US Bank Stadium for the Vikings vs. Rams game.

From: Gray Ghost
20-Nov-17
The Rock,

The only "ludicrous sum" I've paid to be entertained by football is my TV bill. I haven't attended a game in over a decade.

I keep hoping a bunch more of you "principled" folks would stop attending the games. Perhaps the prices would be more affordable, then, and I'd go more often. The reality is, this year's stadium attendance is nearly identical to last year, and it's above that of 2015. Where are all these unprincipled bastards coming from?

The Matt

From: tonyo6302
20-Nov-17
Ugh, Grey Ghost, tickets may have been sold, but people are not showing up to buy beer and hot dogs. ( tickets were sold probably before the kneeling began this season )

You cannot claim that the "ban the NFL'ers" hurt concession workers, but those who kneel do not. People are staying away in droves. Your point just does not make sense.

From: Whitey
20-Nov-17
You know that’s not true or anywhere near true. It’s based on distributed tickets not actual attendance. The league does not report actual turnstile attendance. If you look at the 49ers game they report 70k attendance but the stadium is actually less than half full. That’s because almost all tickets are sold before the season. The effect of the boycott will not be known until next season when season ticket sales and single games ticket sales are reported. A hint at what real season attendance comes from resellers who show ticket resale tickets are down 20% for the year.

From: Pig Doc
20-Nov-17
They weren't "staying away in droves" at the game I was at yesterday. The place was packed and rocking. I didn't see any empty seats and I made a point to scan the stands with binoculars.

From: Gray Ghost
20-Nov-17
"You cannot claim that the "ban the NFL'ers" hurt concession workers, but those who kneel do not."

Nor did I claim that. What I did claim is the boycotters haven't affected stadium attendance, and I provided evidence to support that claim. Hell, my Broncos are an awful team this year, yet they still fill their stadium. Their last Monday Night Football game had a total of 1400 no-shows in a stadium that holds nearly 80K.

What evidence do you have to support "people are staying away in droves?" Some facebook pic of an empty stadium, that was taken 2 hrs before kickoff?

Matt

From: Rocky
20-Nov-17
Principled people? If I remember correctly Donald Trump brought forth "principles" to the forefront or should I say the lack of, during his campaign and nomination by those who recoiled here against him as if their houses did not have closets. BTW...I never alluded to in my post that principles was the driving force behind my position as far as the NFL is concerned. The NFL wore me down long ago when on field celebration's that would rival the Mardi Gras when making a simple tackle or simple play became the norm. These recreational, less than desirable performers of sensation (as you admitted) that tickle your sensibilities and your pocket are your choice, and no one can challenge that personal decision. On the other hand others may have a different view and the bar they set, as you have for yourself, should enjoy the same luxury to express.

From: Gray Ghost
20-Nov-17
"If I remember correctly Donald Trump brought forth "principles" to the forefront or should I say the lack of...."

Yes, I agree Trump has showed a lack of principles most of his life, but I thought we were talking about NFL football.

The Matt

From: Whitey
20-Nov-17
As mentioned the majority of the tickets were sold before the season and the player BS started ,resale is very weak. Given the cost of the tickets I doubt most people will flush them. An example is season tickets for the Seahawks have a face value of $500. Each so holders are going to the games. In the weaker markets they are more likely to stay home. Where you are seeing the decline is on TV and streaming. The owners and the advertisers are very concerned. If you think this isn’t a real problem you are not paying attention. Budweiser isn’t doing a national survey without publicizing it for no reason. They are one of the most advanced marketing companies in the world.

From: Thumper
20-Nov-17

Thumper's embedded Photo
Thumper's embedded Photo
NFL has had their image tarnished and this has effected their attendance and viewer ratings. So much so they're having to give away free tickets, drinks, and food so people will post on the bowsite saying their attendance and ratings are doing just fine.

From: NvaGvUp
20-Nov-17
"Sold out' in no way means all the seats were filled.

Lots of season ticket holders can mean 'sold out,' but if thousands of them stay home, those parking lot folks, the concession folks, et. al., pay the price.

From: Pig Doc
20-Nov-17
"NFL has had their image tarnished and this has effected their attendance and viewer ratings. So much so they're having to give away free tickets, drinks, and food so people will post on the bowsite saying their attendance and ratings are doing just fine."

You are really not that stupid are you Thumper? Maybe you are. The NFL didn't give me free tickets drinks and food, a friend did. He has a suite at Arrowhead for the Chiefs and another at US Bank for the Vikings. He spends around $200K a year on the NFL and does not plan to stop because of a few bad apples. You can wish all you want that the NFL goes broke but its not going to happen.

From: Rocky
20-Nov-17
Thumper, Dead Bang right there. ;-) Let me see here..OK....GG, You could only hope and dream to have lived the "unprincipled " life of that of a Donald Trump. Envy burns deep from the bottom up. Now Matt would have to weigh in on that one all on his own. ;-)

The Rock

From: Pig Doc
20-Nov-17

Pig Doc's embedded Photo
Pig Doc's embedded Photo
Here's a pic from the game I attended yesterday. 65,000 fans and 106 players all standing for the anthem being sung by a Navy enlisted man. Those are military personnel holding the flag. It's great to be an American! You can sit home, pout and pretend anyone gives a rats ass or you can go out and live life.

From: Tonybear61
20-Nov-17
Got that right!! I am generally against the highly paid athletes crying like babies especially when they ask the general public to finance thier stadiums.

Is it possible, is it probable that the Queens will have a least 1 playoff game at home field even a (gulp) chance a the Super Bowl in their own stadium. It would be just like the Vikes to make it, then get blasted with one more loss in the quest for the ring. Just like the time they broke all of our MN hearts in the old days. Saw Tarkenton on a news cast in MN last week, he is looking old. Probably from all those years of big defensive backs chasing him around...

From: BIG BEAR
20-Nov-17
I don't like the politics of athletes.... musicians and movie stars.... they should all leave out the politics and just do what people are paying them to do..... entertain....... That being said I have struggled with my decision to watch or not watch the NFL over the actions of a few dumb asses....... and I have to admit that I sat in a bar in a mall yesterday and had a few beers and watched the Lions while my wife and daughter shopped.... If your Vikings win on Thursday Pig Doc they will most likely take the division with a 3 game lead.... And I guarantee there won't be any empty seats in Ford Field......

From: Paul
20-Nov-17
Was never a big football fan , but as of last year I will never watch a game or permit a game to be Viewed in any Household of mine . National felon league

From: Pig Doc
20-Nov-17
Wow, giving up something you don't like. Now that's making a statement. I'm sure the NFL will miss you.

From: Beendare
20-Nov-17
I refuse to wear any of my 22 Tom Brady jerseys ever again!

(kidding- i'm not a jersey kind of guy)

Its funny how the NFL is trying to counteract the actions by the players lately with all of the military oriented stuff.

From: Pig Doc
20-Nov-17
The NFL has been doing a military theme for the past several years around the time of Veteran's Day.

From: Thumper
20-Nov-17
Pigdoc, what difference does it make who's teat your suckling...:)

"The NFL has been doing a military theme for the past several years around the time of Veteran's Day."...........And paid for by the military, the NFL charges for that "military theme."

From: HDE
20-Nov-17
I've always thought it to be a fool's errand to quit something based on something else such as not using a product that sponsored a wrong doer. Only hurts you more in the end.

Of course, free market, my choice, blah blah blah...

From: SB
20-Nov-17
Long drive for a football game wasn't it Pig doc? As I recall you are up on my fishing lake! Who won? Don't have TV or a newspaper.

From: Fulldraw1972
20-Nov-17

Fulldraw1972's embedded Photo
Fulldraw1972's embedded Photo
Fulldraw1972's embedded Photo
Fulldraw1972's embedded Photo
Fulldraw1972's embedded Photo
Fulldraw1972's embedded Photo
Pig Doc and any other fellow Minnesotans here are some pics of one of our cranes in the stadium. It was a blast going down there in March to put it together. Then back in September to take it apart. I actually drove my truck in there when we took it apart. Can not find them pics for some reason.

From: Fulldraw1972
20-Nov-17

Fulldraw1972's embedded Photo
Fulldraw1972's embedded Photo
Fulldraw1972's embedded Photo
Fulldraw1972's embedded Photo
Fulldraw1972's embedded Photo
Fulldraw1972's embedded Photo
It took us 4.5 days to get it out together and boom in the air. I love that crane but it’s a lot of work.

City officials were complaining we had to many trucks outside the stadium clogging up traffic.

With max counterweight, 280’ of main boom and 160’ of luffer it’s 45 truck loads if I remember right.

From: BIG BEAR
20-Nov-17
The stands look packed in Seattle tonight...... All the coaches on the sidelines have been wearing military colors all season long.... I'm guessing the NFL is trying to align itself with the military as best it can... to do damage control for the jackwagons taking a knee.... They should follow the lead of college ball and tell the players to stand or get suspended.....

From: Fulldraw1972
20-Nov-17

Fulldraw1972's embedded Photo
Fulldraw1972's embedded Photo
Fulldraw1972's embedded Photo
Fulldraw1972's embedded Photo
There was so many booms in the air they had to schedule air space for them. Most of the cranes there were below the tower cranes so it wasn’t much of an issue. However ours and 2 others stuck up above them.

The last pick is Sarens Demag CC 6800. It’s the crane they used to lift all the main trusts up.

From: BIG BEAR
20-Nov-17
Michael..... so you worked on the new stadium but you don't want to watch the Vikings ?? Don't look now but they have a 2 game lead in the division....

From: Fulldraw1972
20-Nov-17
Don’t tell my dad Chris but I have never been a Vikings fan. Lol

Honestly I have had an extremely filled fall with all the hunting I have done. I probably will watch the games on Thursday with my dad but then it’s back to hunting on Friday.

From: BIG BEAR
20-Nov-17
Please please don't tell me you grew up as a Packers fan..... ha !!! They suck without Aaron Rogers..... My Lions only chance is to beat the Vikings on Thursday.....

From: Fulldraw1972
20-Nov-17
Don’t hate on me too bad but I have always been a Dallas fan. Ever since I was 11 years old. I get enough hate from my dad on that. Haha

From: BIG BEAR
21-Nov-17
I can live with that...... I cringe when I'm in the west end of Michigan's U.P. and see the bars decorated in Packer swag..... even though I know they are closer to Green Bay than they are to Detroit........

From: gflight
21-Nov-17
Reminds me of big blue.

Love the pictures, thanks...

From: Fulldraw1972
21-Nov-17
I always found it funny how fans in the NFC north hate on the Packers but not the other teams in the division. My dad and uncles are the same way. The Lions etc don’t get hated on like the Packers do.

From: Fulldraw1972
21-Nov-17
Gflight have you seen the video of when Big Blue went over? I cringe every time I see that video thinking of the guys in the manbasket getting wiped out hanging from that 4100.

When I went to crane school that was the first video they showed us.

From: gflight
21-Nov-17
Pretty much memorized it, Army crane operators saw it from 1999 until at least 2005 if not longer...

From: tonyo6302
21-Nov-17

tonyo6302's Link
GreyGhost, you changed the subject, but I will oblige you; here is your link to sinking attendance; http://www.breitbart.com/sports/2017/11/19/weak-11-fans-finding-things-empty-seats-fill-stadiums-everywhere/

Back to the conversation, it was stated that "Boycotters" are hurting the rank and file part time service industry at the stadiums. I say so does the NFL Players who kneel.

You cannot claim that the boycotters hurt employees, but not the players who kneel. Again, your and Pig Docs argument just does not make sense.

You would say it was the fire that burned down the house. I would say that it was the kid playing with matches that burned down the house.

In case this went over your head, the NFL Players taking a knee, are the kids playing with matches.

It really is that simple.

From: BIG BEAR
21-Nov-17
A lot of the fuss about this whole thing is that people feel that when those overpaid crybabies take a knee during the anthem.... they are disrespecting the military........... But if you look at every NFL game..... There is always a military presence.... be it in the form of military personnel singing the anthem.... hanging out on the sidelines..... flyovers during the anthem.... heck they did the pregame from Norfolk Naval Base during Veterans Day Weekend..... and had hundreds and hundreds of active duty Navy personnel involved in the show....... So I ask...... Why isn't the military boycotting the NFL ?? I mean.... aren't they the ones you are boycotting to defend their honor ??

From: BIG BEAR
21-Nov-17
Michael..... The Packers get hated on because they always win..... The Lions have never come close to winning a Super Bowl....... Green Bay has had the luxury of Brett Favre and Aaron Rogers for a long long time..... They look like a mere mortal team without Rogers....

From: Rocky
21-Nov-17
The NFL knows neither pride nor honor because is predicated upon dollars and all else be damned. Ask any Marine about the former when they will kneel only over their fallen.

The Rock

From: Pig Doc
21-Nov-17
"Again, your and Pig Docs argument just does not make sense."

And what argument is that Tony? I was just sharing my experience from Sunday. Packed stadium, happy fans, massive economic activity and a great time for me enjoying the game with a buddy. You can sit behind a computer and read made up stuff or you can get out and see for yourself.

SB, it was only a 2 hour drive for me to the stadium as I was at my ranch in Southern MN, not the cabin. Parked at my son's condo and rode the light rail to the stadium, which was also a neat experience.

Cool stuff Fulldraw. That's some impressive equipment! You just showed us another example of the economic activity generated by the dreaded NFL.

From: jdee
21-Nov-17
Hey, I grew up playing football and still love the game but there is no way in hell can I sit and watch the thugs in the NFL play it and I never will again. It's not football people hate, it's todays players and how they act !! How long before the Black Panthers partner with them ? Or have they ?

From: Pig Doc
21-Nov-17
We know jdee. You think the players should be lynched for expressing their first amendment rights. You might ask the Dr. to up your meds a bit before you hurt someone.

From: Rhody
21-Nov-17
I watch the Superbowl. I'd rather be doing something else than sitting in front of a TV than watch organized sports the rest of the year.

From: Gray Ghost
21-Nov-17

Gray Ghost's Link
"The NFL knows neither pride nor honor because is predicated upon dollars and all else be damned."

Really? What do you call the $430 million they've contributed to charities and youth programs since 1973?

And that doesn't include the dozens of charities that individual players have established. See my link for a partial list, if you care for a honest discussion.

Matt

From: BIG BEAR
21-Nov-17
The players who have been taking a knee aren't doing it to insult the military.... Their cause is aimed at Police Officers and the relations between the Police and the black community..... Being a Police Officer.... I could really give a crap about the misguided political opinion of some overpaid whiney athelete..... But I don't have to like all the opinions of all the players to like the game..... If I choose to turn the channel during an NFL game then fine.... or if I choose to ignore the antics of a few and watch the game that's fine too... Believe me.... after 24 years on the job... you either learn to ignore the negativity towards the Police or you change careers....

From: Joey Ward
21-Nov-17
Great game last night between the Falcons and Seahawks. Falcons took it 34-31. Some games I'm in awe at how well the pro guys can play. Last night was one of those games.

From: BIG BEAR
21-Nov-17
I guarantee you that there won't be any empty seats in Ford Field on Thursday........

From: Pig Doc
21-Nov-17
Well said Big Bear. If I let the political opinions of athletes, actors, musicians, car makers, clothing makers, restaurateurs, etc., I would be living in a cave wearing skins. In the world we live in, knowingly or not, we are doing business with people we do not agree with politically.

From: Gray Ghost
21-Nov-17
"I guarantee you that there won't be any empty seats in Ford Field on Thursday........"

Yep. Interesting how winning football tends to erase "principles" for some, eh?

Matt

From: BIG BEAR
21-Nov-17
My luck is if I don't watch, the Lions will win the Super Bowl..... Ha !!!!

From: tonyo6302
21-Nov-17
You have to have principles to begin with . . . .

From: Pig Doc
21-Nov-17
Then please don't watch Big Bear.

From: BIG BEAR
21-Nov-17
I had a principle once who whacked me with a paddle for throwing a snowball....... or was that a principal........ hmmm

From: Pig Doc
21-Nov-17
Tony, you referring the principled people advocating lynching?

From: BIG BEAR
21-Nov-17
After the Lions game on Thursday..... Ford Field hosts the State Championship games for Michigan High School Football.... 8 games in 2 days Friday and Saturday.... It's only $10 bucks to get in and you can sit anywhere you want... In 2015 I saw Donnie Corley catch a 50 yard Hail Mary bomb in the last seconds of the game to win the State Championship for his school.... last year he was a freshman phenom at Michigan State.... this year he and 2 other MSU stars were kicked off the team and kicked out of school after they were charged with rape at a campus frat house party...... Those dumb ass kids had multi million dollar careers only a few years ahead of them..... As football stars at a major university they could have probably dated any number of girls...... And they decided to RAPE a young lady..... unreal.

From: Pig Doc
21-Nov-17
Well then if we had any principles we better all boycott HS football.

From: jdee
21-Nov-17
Pig Doc... lol...the guys name who took the knee was Lynch. A little play on words but it sailed right over your head. lol

Yea, Ford Field will be packed alright, packed with a bunch of candy azz liberals !!

From: Pig Doc
21-Nov-17
That it did jdee. I didn't watch the game and even if I had I doubt I would know the kneeler was named Lynch.

From: BIG BEAR
21-Nov-17
Will those candy ass liberals include the military personnel that will be there jdee ??

From: Rocky
21-Nov-17
If you protest ,disrespect and for all intents and purposes dishonor the American Flag and what it stands for, how can you expect to enjoy the freedoms, without consequences, that it provides? How can anyone defend or be party to by association, no matter how trivial or connected, and contribute no less to those who would embark upon such a disparagement to the Flag to which our forefathers and relatives have died protecting? .....that our Flag was still there? B.S. to some but not to me.

The Rock

From: BIG BEAR
21-Nov-17
Rock.... Answer this.... How can the Military still maintain a working relationship with the NFL and continue to have active duty and reserve personnel attending the games in uniform ???

From: Pig Doc
21-Nov-17
One of my best friends was a Huey pilot in Vietnam. He lost several friends in action and was himself severely wounded. He is one of the biggest pro football fans I know. He gets it that the "protest" is no big deal and is not about the military. If others want to view it differently than that and make a huge deal out of it they have the prerogative to do so but please save the holier than thou crap. It doesn't fit.

From: HDE
21-Nov-17
So, what does kneeling for the anthem have to do with the interaction of law enforcement? I guess I'm too dumb to see the connection...

Apparently, the message was not communicated as intended.

From: Jim Moore
21-Nov-17

Jim Moore's Link
Wall Street's NFL worries mount as viewership slides with tough weeks ahead.

The National Football League's weak viewership has Wall Street on edge, and the numbers don't look any better for Week 10.

Viewership fell 18 percent year over year in Week 10, which ended Monday, with lower ratings in all six game-time windows. JPMorgan analyst Alexia Quandrani noted that the slip in Week 10 puts the NFL's season-to-date audience decline at roughly 7 percent.

While that compares well with the NFL's 12 percent audience decline at this point in 2016, much of last year's showing was written off as a one-time effect from the presidential election. That may translate into some tough year over year comparisons for the NFL in the weeks ahead.

"Ratings are down in 8 of 10 weeks this season," wrote Quandrani. "We note that ratings picked up in 2016 starting in Week 10, which was the first post-Election Day slate of games. Total audiences were down only 3 percent post-election versus -12 percent through Week 9."

There is more at the article from CNBC if one cares to read it. there are similar articles among some of the MSM sites and that was just a search for the past week in the news.

I know I don't care to watch the games much anymore. Some here have postulated that if you aren't watching, you were really never a fan. I disagree with that. I quit watching because it has morphed from a stupid protest about police brutality from a marginal player who thinks cops are pigs and Castro was the second coming of Christ, to quite simply flipping the bird at America. If I am playing in a country as magnificent as this one is, making millions doing what I love, I can stand for an anthem. You get these phvk sticks like Lynch who dont even have the courtesy to kneel, but sit for our anthem, and then stand for the countries flag who has a helluva lot more to answer for inre civil rights than we do? You think that POS is going to move to Mexico and make that a better place, or stay here and reap the fruits of a nation that pays a stupid amounts of money?

It isn't about Police Brutality anymore. It's not about the 1st. It's about a power play by a culture that is holding a "game" hostage so fans of it can be entertained. Thats it.

From: Mad dog
21-Nov-17
This isn't JUST a protest against police brutality, and by using that logic why have these candy ass thugs taken A knee when the American Flag is faced and honored? The Flag is first & FOREMOST associated with Veterans, not police. If they turned their backs on a police honor guard, you'd have a point. They are against the flag, Men & Women who have fought and died to protect it, AND COPS, and any of us who give a shit about the country. Pig Doc . Your VV friend has earned his right to speak his mind for sure, and I too have met a few vets of different wars that think like that. However, the vast majority that I know are disgusted by this. In fact, the guest speaker, two tours in The 'Nam, at our Local Veterans Day ceremony addressed The NFL losers. The applause was overwhelming. So, just because you can find a few vets that it doesn't matter to doesn't make it ok with the vast majority of those who serve and have served. As I've said before, I'm a third generation Giants Fan And if The Maras, Rooney's, and Krafts laid down the law, I would not hold it against the entire NFL, just asswipe goodell, the kneelers, and other gutless coaches and owners. When those supposedly Old Gaurd, classy owners shit their pants, I was done. I played 10 years of football, including 2 Semi-Pro. You're not going to find a man who loves football as much as I, but I LOVE MY COUNTRY AND OUR FLAG MORE. Mad Dog

From: Gray Ghost
21-Nov-17
I see no one responded to my link that showed all the good that the NFL and it's players do for charities and local youth programs. That's telling.

Last week there was a TOTAL of 6 players who protested by kneeling, or not showing up for the anthem. Meanwhile, the charitable community programs that far more players sponsor and contribute to still exist.

Matt

From: Pig Doc
21-Nov-17
You can love them both Mad Dog.

From: BIG BEAR
21-Nov-17
Mad Dog..... I'm a Veteran and a cop..... I can be disgusted by the actions of the ass hats who are kneeling without holding those that are not kneeling accountable for it....

From: Rocky
21-Nov-17
Pig,

Its about this country and if ANYTHING is worth being "holier than thou" for it is this country who sacrificed blood of their young. Everybody has as a story about someone to back up their defense whichever side your on, and there it is right there. There should be ONE and only ONE side concerning which burns in your heart, not your pockets. I am blessed a thousand times over in every regard and will complain about this government as well as the next person. That blood drenched flag is sacred property and those who disrespect it in any way, ANY WAY, including the mighty "heroes"|of the gridiron who make chills of happiness and excitement run up the spines of many, as the flag itself should, should indeed pay the steep price of disassociation in the least. That is my take and my belief and if it be holy that is my business. You can worship whoever you may choose. I don't take prisoners when God and Country are at issue.

The Rock

From: Gray Ghost
21-Nov-17
The Rock,

Care to respond to my last post? If not, I understand.

The Matt

From: Pig Doc
21-Nov-17
I don't worship anyone Rocky. If you want to spend your life being pissed off over things lacking real significance go for it. I have a different approach that works for me. I will be thanking veterans by preparing Thanksgiving meals. That means a lot more to me that having a hissey fit over football, but hey, hissey away if that's what makes you feel good about yourself.

From: Solo
21-Nov-17
Good angle, BB. I want the NFL to succeed too. And one key aspect of that success is that they overcome the rebellion these players have mistakenly chosen.

Extremely wrong venue for this anti-whatever their complaint-of-the-day is 'protest'. No one involved is even trying to solve the many problems they bring up. Instead, it's become an incoherent whine.

From: Paul
21-Nov-17
Pig the 1st Amedmen is very important but the players are employees at work and I dont think anyone here can do or say what the want because of the rules of their employers . They want to do that crap do it on their own time not when they are on the clock .

From: BIG BEAR
21-Nov-17
Exactly... Tell them to stand for the anthem or suspend them if they don't......

From: sleepyhunter
21-Nov-17
Let them kneel. Their protest doesn't change anything. Never has never will.

From: Solo
21-Nov-17
Which 'protest' you taking about, sleepy? Not like there's just 'one'......

From: Thumper
21-Nov-17

Thumper's Link
The first amendment goes both ways. Players have the right to take a knee and the fans have the right to stay home or turn the channel.

This is a protest because the police do not give street gangs their proper respect. UFB

From: Mad dog
21-Nov-17
Thanks thumper. A good smack in the face for those here that think it JUST AN Isolated ANNOYANCE to their Sunday and they'll keep watching the bums. The whole kneeling crap is an attack on our Country , military, police and culture. When I see guys like Drew Brees & Big Ben, The Maras, Rooneys, caving and you guys that keep watching, I see an apathy, an acceptance of an insurgency in our midst. Frogs ever so slowly boiled. Mad Dog

From: Rocky
21-Nov-17
Matt, I applaud anyone and applaud loudly for those who contribute to society. I applaud that much louder and with much more respect when those who contribute give when there is little to give. Everything is relative and taking diamonds and giving back gold is minor in comparison. Charity does not wash clean. Criminals throughout history have been known to be some of the most charitable people on earth. Their just fate awaited them in a pool of blood. You see six people kneeling, inconsequential in numbers, but it is what you can't see from those NOW erect through pressure and their burning hatred for America that is the serious problem. This NFL issue is a microcosm mirrored by every American urban city where the ghetto is a way of life by political design. The numbers are staggering if the truth be told of those who would celebrate America's demise and agony. Farm fields and rural roots do not have a clue of social rumblings in the urban cities of America. How can they? These protest are borne from a seething anger against our country and our flag of times long past. The blind who get caught sleeping will be caught sleeping forever if this rage continues to fester unabated. Who pays mind, has the foresight or heeds warnings with a loaf under each arm? The famished who have nothing, patriotism low on the list obviously in conjunction with their wealthy athletic brothers, who have everything and nothing to lose at the same time. There is a problem in this country and excessive non stop recreation and entertainment are at the top of the list displacing family first concerns that brought us here. Traitors, deserters and spy's are now accepted in this country. You are correct. Why worry about just another few who disgrace the flag without repercussions?

The Rock

From: sleepyhunter
22-Nov-17
""Which 'protest' you taking about, sleepy? Not like there's just 'one'......""

."" Why worry about just another few who disgrace the flag without repercussions? ""

It's a bitter pill to accept. The players will continue their BS. In the end, it will change nothing. I will still support the American way of life, I will respect the Flag and Anthem, I will continue to support the Police.

From: Pig Doc
22-Nov-17
The kneeling is distasteful but it's a very small percentage of the players doing it and they are not hurting anyone. As Gray Ghost has pointed out, the players doing good deeds greatly outnumber the kneelers. If you want to boycott the NFL, knock yourself out, but if you think you are making a difference you are kidding yourself. I prefer to use my venom and energy on things that actually matter.

From: Solo
22-Nov-17
Initially, Kaepernick sat on the bench alone during the anthem for the first 2 pre-season games back in August of 2016. Then, 3 weeks later somebody asked him why, and he said, "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses Black people and people of color."

Then, that theme morphed into protesting police brutality over claims that blacks are being unfairly targeted by cops. So instead of sitting, they took up the art of kneeling.

And some began protesting the Trump Presidency.

Then we have a guy like Marshawn Lynch who is protesting having to lift his lazy butt to get up and kneel with the kneelers. And I probably overlooked a few more 'reasons' (i.e. excuses) for their rebellions......

What rings loudest of all to me is that, instead of standing up and taking the appropriate actions to show others how to overcome the many problems these guys have become so enamored with, they encourage rebellion and confusion.

Face it. They are a bunch of idiots. But they are free to be stupid.....gotta give them that.

From: MT in MO
22-Nov-17
I am not trying to change the NFL. They can do whatever they want. I don't get that much enjoyment of watching the game as I did when I was younger. Part of that is because the NFL dealt my area a shitty hand while lying to fans here, another part is that they get paid to act patriotic and the third part is that I don't need or want politics to be included in what is supposed to be entertainment. The NFL doesn't care about me and I return the sentiment...

From: Pig Doc
23-Nov-17

Pig Doc's Link
For every kneeler there are 20 good guys in the NFL. Vikings TE Kyle Rudolph is one of them. His Kyle Rudolph End Zone Foundation is responsible for a new therapeutic play center at the University of Minnesota Children's Hospital. It's a place for kids with cancer and other ailments to go and have some fun.

From: Fulldraw1972
23-Nov-17
Big Bear are you watching the game?

From: BIG BEAR
23-Nov-17
Yes.... packed house.... everyone appeared to me to be standing for the anthem.....

From: Fulldraw1972
23-Nov-17
Yes I agree. So far a great traditional thanksgiving day game between division rivals and a very important game on top of it.

I might have to be a Vikings fan today. Haha

From: BIG BEAR
23-Nov-17
The Vikings are looking like they want to put a 3 game lead stronghold on the division with 5 games left.....

From: Pig Doc
23-Nov-17
The boycotters are missing a good game!

From: Glunt@work
23-Nov-17
A good game is one people enjoy. If the protest kneeling, and the NFL's handling of it, keeps them from enjoying the game, they aren't missing anything they would enjoy.

From: Fulldraw1972
23-Nov-17
Yeah they are Pig Doc! What a great game. Chris the Vikings have looked good. Stanford is a good quarterback. He has the capabilities to lead his team. Always has.

From: BIG BEAR
23-Nov-17
I'm not giving up hope..... Stafford has a way of coming from behind....... go Lions !!

From: BIG BEAR
23-Nov-17
Ugh....

From: Fulldraw1972
23-Nov-17
That one had to hurt Chris. You have to admit that was executed perfectly.

From: Pig Doc
23-Nov-17
Rudolph with 2 first half TD's. Good deeds get rewarded!

From: BIG BEAR
23-Nov-17
The stadium is only about 10 miles from my house... but I have a good seat in my living room in front of my 60"...... My wife is at work and daughter is at grandmas...... now I can yell at the TV all I want..... :-)

From: Fulldraw1972
23-Nov-17
Haha Chris I think I can hear you all the way over here in west central Mn!

From: BIG BEAR
23-Nov-17
Oh my God the Lions think it's a flag football game..... they can't tackle anyone..... That opening drive in the second half looked like the Vikings are playing a high school team....

From: Pig Doc
23-Nov-17
4 runs, 75 yds, TD!

From: Sixby
23-Nov-17
Everyone to their own but I will not honor or give my patronage or money to anyone that dishonors this flag, this country or our constitution. I am not boycotting but I have every right as a free citizen of the greatest nation on earth and as a citizen of Heaven to exercise personally to not watch or help in any way those that disrespect what our patriots and heros have sacrificed for this country and for the people of the world. Thats my story and I'm sticking to it. Until the NFL and NBA take a stand against it I am totally done with them. God bless, Steve

From: HDE
23-Nov-17
I'm not boycotting and still missing it...

From: Fulldraw1972
23-Nov-17
I new this game was going to turn into a nail biter. Wow what a great game.

From: BIG BEAR
23-Nov-17
Win or lose that's what Stafford does..... come back wins..... he's got heart...... the Lions need a big defensive play.....

From: BIG BEAR
23-Nov-17
Ugh.... well at least it looks like someone other than Green Bay will win the division........ good game !!

From: Fulldraw1972
23-Nov-17
Great game. Too bad Chris you, Pig Doc and myself were not sitting in a fish house on a lake watching the game and catching fish.

From: Pig Doc
23-Nov-17
Sounds fun! That could be arranged. 7" of ice on Lake Vermilion. I'm putting my skid house out the week before Christmas and my wheel house out on Lake of the Woods the week after Christmas.

From: Fulldraw1972
23-Nov-17
Nice Pig Doc. I was wondering how much ice was up there. My dad said the lake him and my mom live on froze over two nights ago. Long lake just north of Fergus Falls.

I am a Mn boy and haven’t fished either one of them lakes. Such a shame considering how good they are. Lol

From: BIG BEAR
23-Nov-17
Have you guys ever gone over to Devils Lake for big perch ??? It's on my bucket list.... I love big perch ..... but the biggest I've ever gotten in Michigan are 12-13".......

From: Fulldraw1972
23-Nov-17
I have never fished Devils Lake either. I don’t hear much about the perch in Devils Lake any more. It’s a very good walleye lake though.

We used to catch a lot of perch out of Ottertail lake in Mn. The biggest I ever caught was a 15”. Back in 97 I fished Ottertail on Thanksgiving. Walked out on 4” of ice. Took home a limit of walleyes and a limit of perch. Back then it was 100 for perch. I hated every minute of cleaning all them perch as well. Haha

From: BIG BEAR
23-Nov-17
I keep getting the urge to book a few days with the Perch Patrol guide service..... someday....

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