This is a slippery slope here folks.
What did Trump Tweet?
"Wow, Matt Lauer was just fired from NBC for “inappropriate sexual behavior in the workplace.” But when will the top executives at NBC & Comcast be fired for putting out so much Fake News. Check out Andy Lack’s past!"
Sexual harassment isn't necessarily a crime. Sexual abuse or assault is. That's why sexual harassment accusations are thrown around so liberally, and they've become a political tool.
Matt
Bowbender's Link
Garrison Keillor. Seems to be a pattern with libs....
Some would say that telling a lady at work that she looks beautiful today would be harassment. While most would say it was merely a compliment. Should someone get fired over such a benign comment?
So who gets to define it..........
We can’t expect anything different from them when they idolize the Clintons. One is flat scary and the other led by example.
The Rock
The Rock
Plenty of men in power play that game, left and right, many that are neither. But the left.... the sanctimonious hypocrisy on display is much more entertaining..... much more satisfying to watch them spin in on fire.... trailing smoke......
But beyond that.... yes, care must be taken these cases are not just opportunists or the easily offended. All are individual cases.... no matter if the person is really scum or not. From all I have read so far.... it's been pretty clear cut, not simple "misunderstandings". We shall see how things, um, spin out.......
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Second, whenever I notice at work, that a female has lost a lot of weight, I cannot help myself. I usually say, "Gosh, you have lost a ton of weight."
Nine times out of ten, the female I have just spoken to, will jump up from behind her desk, hug me, and plant a big ole kiss on my cheek.
I hug her back, but do not kiss her back.
Just how vulnerable and I to a harrassment claim? I am serious here. I never even gave it a thought until now.
Seriously, how vulnerable am I ?
I once asked a co-worker when her baby was due. Problem was, she wasn't pregnant. Oops!!
Matt
This is a real thing that happened to me over 10 years ago.
I was a supervisor of an accounting department that was all women. My boss was a woman but she was gone this day. We had a young lady show up for work with a top that was sooooo low cut that it left very little to the imagination. You knew exactly what she had......... It was causing a real brew haha in the office with everyone talking about it. And truthfully, it was not appropriate for a business office. There is low cut, then there is "check these babies out!"
As her supervisor, I had to call her in to tell her that it wasn't appropriate attire for the office. Needless to say, I had another management lady set in with me to tell her. She didn't take it well at all, but she didn't file a complaint of any type!!!
I'd hate to think I had to do that same thing today! I'd have to send her to HR to have them handle it and then something would be put in her file. And it wasn't anything that needed reported to her file, just told not to wear it again....
I'm just glad I now work in an office all by my lonesome!!!!!!
God bless, Steve
Thank God I'm past the days of being young, dumb, and full of...well...you know. I pity young males, today.
Matt
Huh???? Trump??? You conveniently forgot about Bill Clinton's oval office blue dress soiling sessions and Obama's 8 solid years of lying outright to us. But then again you ARE a Democrat, which right there proves you have no memory, sense of honesty/truth, or concept of integrity.
I believe it's fine to be cordial and polite. I'd shy away from being personal. Commenting about a woman's weight could turn into a problem, even if you meant to be complimentary. I've known several men over the years get pulled into the front office for saying too much to the ladies on company time.
With all these accusations flying now days. It’s no wonder there are so many transgender people.
Annony Mouse's Link
"Are you saying you think I weighed 2000 pounds more before I started Weight Watchers?"
"No, no, no just saying you look great"
"You are judging me on my looks?!"
"No, no, no just happy for you"
"Happy for me? Was something wrong when I weighed more?"
"No, no...ummm, ok yes. You were fat and cranky and now you are smiling and easy on the eyes."
"Did you honestly just say that?"
"Yep, if you are calling HR I might as well make it worth it."
Great find Mouse
Did you read the most recent revelation that Lauer banged a girl until she passed out over his desk, and then had to call a nurse? A married lady. Sheeesh. They are both damaged goods.
Families will be fractured and careers destroyed.
How in the world is this even possible????
Take the whore that past out on Lauers desk, for example. Was it consensual or forced sex? I'm reading she was separated from her husband at the time, and she willingly unclothed herself at Matt's request. I've known several women who have spread their legs to advance their careers. Should that be a crime, too?
What a mess.....
Matt
HA/KS's Link
Yes, it's disgusting behavior, and should never happen in the workplace. But, none of us know what the true intent of either party was at the time. Was the women's behavior equally wrong? We just don't know.
Matt
Fainting is usually a blood pressure issue. Not hard to see how sex can mess up the blood flow to the normal parts of the body (in this case, lack of blood to the brain caused at least 2 distinct reactions...).
No, I don't have daughters. But if I did, they would certainly know that no job is worth being sexually violated by a superior. Nor would they keep quiet at the time, only to play the victim card years afterwards.
Are you claiming women never use sex to advance their careers? I doubt you're that naive. I was wrong to assume this women is a "whore", but I think it's equally wrong to assume she was a victim. It goes both ways.
Matt
If Lauer grabbed her without asking, if she had said no, if she had done nothing at all frozen in fear, I would have supported her story here. But at this point no. She undressed herself, she was on board. What if just to be safe, Lauer asked her to sign a note giving written consent? STILL not good enough in this current atmosphere, because she would say he was the boss and she felt forced to sign. When there is no possible way to defend yourself from guilt by any positive proactive action, the system has collapsed and we are all screwed.
Who hasn't dated someone at work at some point in their life? Heck, I've even had a girl blackout on rare occasions too. And technically we worked together (bartender and waitress back in the college days). It was just normal kids dating. Not the same as OJ and Nicole for God's sake!
Yep, me too, and in those cases it meant we both had just had a great time.
Please don't get me wrong. I'm not defending Lauer. But, I'm also not blindly accepting the word of women who blow the whistle years after the alleged incidents.
Matt
If no consent can ever be consent enough, I call foul on the whole system. If I were Lauer's attorney on this one, I would seek records for every other dalliance she had... how many other times she cheated (not every one is going to be her boss - and I am guessing there are more).
Umm, yes, it's completely different. Did you really ask that?
Matt
I've never had a job that that was worth losing my self-respect for. YMMV.
Matt
BTW If you have never been a C-level or an executive let me tell you that you can NOT have any relations with a woman if you are single from your organization without HR knowing. If you do you can be fired. If you are married and cheat on your spouse with a subordinate you will be fired in many Fortune 500 companies.
This is not about flirting or saying someone looks nice. This is about appearance and using your position to coerce.
For a women's perspective, I asked my wife if she, or anyone she knows, would allow a boss to sexually violate her for the sake of keeping her job. She looked at me like I was crazy.
Sorry, but the "perceived desperation" defense doesn't fly, Kevin. That's perhaps the most absurd thing I've ever seen you post. If a women doesn't perceive being sexually abused worse than being fired, she's got bigger problems than a sick boss.
Matt
That's where you are wrong, Kevin. There is no situation in which I'd "perceive" getting fired from a job is worse than than getting sexually abused. Like I said, no job is worth losing my self-respect for, ever.
Matt
First you claimed the threat of taking a bullet to the head was the same as the threat of getting fired. Then you claimed that was just a metaphor, and what you meant is "perceived desperation" is the issue (whatever that means). Now, you're concocting some hypothetical situation that might justify being sexually abused over getting fired, while acknowledging you've never been in that situation and don't really know how you'd react. You've moved the goal post so many times, I don't know which end of the field to kick towards.
I do know how I would react, and I've stated so.
As for the "special place in hell", do you know for fact that the women in question was forced to make that choice? If so, do share your evidence. Is it possible she knew of ML's sick sexual behavior, and she went to his office intent on inciting it?
Matt
Ha. You don't see a pattern here do ya? Ever notice that whenever the guy gets called out he just keeps on posting and posting until the other person finds something better to do?
I'm not going to debate the meaning of your metaphor. You've made it clear that you assume the accuser was the victim in this case, without proof. Is that an example of the "critical thinking" that you preach about?
I've had the shoe on the other foot. I had an attractive "underling", as you would call her, try to solicit advances from me for personal career gains. I was flattered, and I could have handled it better, but I didn't do anything I'm ashamed of. When it became clear her tactics weren't going to work, I suddenly became the accused.
Sadly, men and women both use sex for selfish intents.
Matt
But, hey, she's had 16 years to piece together her story....it must be true.
Matt
We aren't animals of course. What matters is what really happened. That will be hard to ever know for sure. Matt got fired, that is not a surprise or out of line for anyone who is having sex at work unless you work at the Mustang Ranch. What we may never know is how we would judge the situation if we were a fly on the wall.
I have seen women and men do crazy things when they are desperate. Desperate to keep a job, desperate to get money, desperate to get revenge, desperate to win affection, desperate to get ahead, etc.
If we toss out being impartial and waiting for facts we aren't doing anyone any good. I've been in the workforce for a long time. I have seen bosses (male and female) use their position to get in bed with subordinates. I have also seen subordinates (male and female) use sex to influence the boss's decisions.
The current sex crimes dragnet sweeping across the country, pulling in celebrities, media millionaires, and politicians, has yet to reel in a high-profile professor from the hallowed halls of academia
Will Bill Ayers be the first?
In a 2006 Frontpagemag article entitled "Remembering a Sixties Terrorist," a woman named Donna Ron recounted what she described as "the defining event of my life."
As a sophomore at the University of Michigan in 1965, Ron was caught up in the antiwar movement when she met and dated Ayers. Two months after meeting Ayers, Ron alleges that he locked her in his apartment and told her she couldn't leave until she had sex with his roommate and his brother.
From FrontPageMag (warning graphic language):
Bill Ayers' apartment was around the corner and a half a block away from the sorority house… Sometimes I would stop by... What I do recall is that when I was getting ready to leave Ayers told me I couldn't go until I slept with his roommate and his brother.
At first I thought Ayers was joking. I got up; and went to the door. He moved quickly to block me at the doorway. He locked the door and put the chain on it. I went to the couch and sat down and told him that I had no intention of having sex with his roommate and his brother or him. He said that I had no choice but to do as he said if I wanted to get out of there. He claimed that I wouldn't sleep with his married roommate because he was black – that I was a bigot.
I felt trapped. I had to get out of the situation I was in and because he was so effective a guilt-tripper, I also felt I had to prove to him that I wasn't a bigot. I got up from the couch and walked over to the black roommate's bed and put myself on it and he [f-----] me. I went totally out of my body. I floated beside myself on the outside and above the bed looking at this black stranger [f---] me angrily while I hated myself.
After that I had to go lie down on Bill Ayer's bed for his brother to [s----] me. Rick Ayers was a decent person, unlike his brother, and couldn't go through with it He started and stopped and let me go. I also thought I had to let Bill [s----] me but at that point he unbolted the door and I left.
I remember going back to the sorority house and talking to my best girlfriend and telling her what had happened. But there were no words yet to describe it. There was no term "date rape" yet in our political vocabulary...
I was a mess and felt it was my fault for letting it happen. I was ashamed. Back home at the end of the semester, I got my parents to send me to a psychiatrist.
In 2008, Ron repeated the details of her ordeal to WND, adding, "I was terrified. People underestimate terrorism by psychological intimidation. I felt like I was being held prisoner."
It's been almost ten years since Ron alleged that Ayers set up a gang-rape in his apartment. At the time, her story was confined to a few alternative conservative websites (ironic, considering that Ron was an Obama supporter and committed socialist).
Today, not only are women with similar narratives being heard, but the men they accuse are being held accountable.
The avalanche of accusations in recent weeks, beginning with Hollywood producer Harvey Weinstein, suggests that Ron's horrific encounter with Ayers could resurface. To date, Ayers's only response to Ron's accusation came in 2001. After discovering that the terrorist had gone on to fame and fortune at the University of Illinois at Chicago, Ron emailed him about what happened at his apartment in 1965. Ayers said he "did not remember her."
Ron, who has resided in Israel for many years, may not be aware that the tide has turned here in the U.S., but the timing couldn't be more perfect to subject the terrorist to the same scrutiny as other outed alleged sexual predators. As a co-founder of the Weather Underground, Ayers boasted about the group's willingness to engage in all kinds of deviant sex. His admission makes Donna's story even more credible. Not only that, but her narrative and Ayers's sordid history suggest the real possibility that there may be more of Ayers's victims out there. Now the question is, after aggressively targeting other millionaire males, many of whom have lost their jobs, when will the mainstream media go after Bill Ayers?
