Summit Treestands
Crime and disarming people
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Contributors to this thread:
Spike Bull 07-Apr-18
JTV 07-Apr-18
Annony Mouse 09-Apr-18
BIG BEAR 09-Apr-18
Owl 09-Apr-18
JTV 09-Apr-18
TGbow 10-Apr-18
Shuteye 10-Apr-18
Your fav poster 10-Apr-18
Bentstick81 10-Apr-18
Tiger eye 10-Apr-18
lawdy 10-Apr-18
Beendare 10-Apr-18
JTV 10-Apr-18
J. h2os 10-Apr-18
woodguy65 10-Apr-18
JTV 10-Apr-18
jjs 10-Apr-18
Spike Bull 10-Apr-18
Owl 10-Apr-18
JTV 10-Apr-18
JTV 10-Apr-18
HDE 10-Apr-18
Your fav poster 10-Apr-18
JTV 10-Apr-18
Bentstick81 10-Apr-18
trublucolo 10-Apr-18
JTV 10-Apr-18
K Cummings 10-Apr-18
JTV 10-Apr-18
Will 10-Apr-18
K Cummings 10-Apr-18
Annony Mouse 12-Apr-18
07-Apr-18

Spike Bull 's Link
Less guns, more crime. More guns less crime. Say it anyway you want, just say it.

From: JTV
07-Apr-18
come on now, we all know liberal anti-2A dweebs dont like facts ... facts and the truth show how ignorant these people actually are ...

From: Annony Mouse
09-Apr-18

From: BIG BEAR
09-Apr-18
Good guys with guns trumps bad guys with guns....... It's a no brainer. By good guys I mean the majority of society that are law abiding citizens.....

From: Owl
09-Apr-18
In a world with firearms, it is purely evil to debar one's neighbors access thereof. Period. I'll add a firearm is the most egalitarian instrument on God's green earth. It makes the 110 lb. coed superior to a 260 lb. thug if she is prepared. Firearms give the just recourse against the exploitation and victimization of the unjust.

From: JTV
09-Apr-18
God made men .... Colt made them equal ....

From: TGbow
10-Apr-18
Spike...you have got to quit using common sense and facts ...that don't fly in the PC arena. .lol

From: Shuteye
10-Apr-18
I think the liberals want to start a revolution. They will lose.

10-Apr-18
If more guns equals less crime you must know we have more guns in this country than any other nation. And how is our crime rate?

How many more guns until we become completely crime free? 5, million10 million?

From: Bentstick81
10-Apr-18
your fav IMposter. Name ONE GUN LAW that will keep students as well as people safer???

From: Tiger eye
10-Apr-18

Tiger eye's Link
Imposter the link below answers all your questions. Perhaps a class assignment, it shouldn't be below your comprehension level. If it is stop back here, I'm sure there are a bunch of us willing to help you.

From: lawdy
10-Apr-18
I live in a village where the nearest law enforcement is 25 miles away. No guns and we are sitting ducks. Our advantage is that being a remote area, everyone has guns. When Carl Drega shot two state troopers, a judge, and a newspaper editor to death in Colebrook, NH, 20 years ago, we got word that he was headed to our town to kill a local man. We set up a citizens roadblock. He was killed. Now, across the border, in Andover, Maine, we are dealing with an arsonist. Two brush fires and two homes so far. We are watching. I am on our volunteer fire dept and we are alert. One member, a former game warden, is armed with a couple of us with pistol permits. Better to be safe than sorry when the nearest trooper could be an hour away.

From: Beendare
10-Apr-18
Folks like Fav Poster are one home invasion away from being a conservative

Now please don't misinterpret this, I don't wish that on anyone. I use the family a few street over as an example. They have gone from SF liberal mentality to training at the gun range [along with multiple home improvements]....and rightly so....the father wants to protect his family. BTW, he is 2 blocks from a Contra Costa sheriffs office.

From: JTV
10-Apr-18
Hey, to the liar known as PutZ... Crime rates have been dropping for many many years ... over all, violent crime is DOWN, 48-74%... property crime is down almost 48-66% from 1993- present, this is from two highly respected groups who track these (Pew research center and the Bureau of Justice Statistics)..., where there IS a problem with violent crimes, are the democrat run cities where they have strict gun control and citizens are not allowed to protect themselves.... ooopsie, once again PutZ has been proven WRONG !!

From: J. h2os
10-Apr-18
Fav poster, no place is ever crime free except one, and you don't believe in that place. jeff

From: woodguy65
10-Apr-18
Imposter take out the gangbanger deaths and suicide and it barely registers.

Look at rural America which is anywhere there aren't gangs. You'll notice murder by gun is almost non existent, even though just about every household has multiple guns, in many case over 10.

You've also seen the latest news from London, where you can't own a gun and their knife murder rate is higher than NY.

From: JTV
10-Apr-18
Heck, PutZ dosnt care about facts and common sense and the truth... all he is here to do is Troll, and disrupt ...

From: jjs
10-Apr-18
It really takes a idiot to respond about too many guns, it is not the gun it is the idiot that is behind the gun, knife, ball bat, auto, ect to kill a person. As long as there is bad people there will always be killing and JTV stated best that Colt is the equalizer.

I really believe that PZ is not a bowhunter but here just as a PETA troll, have anyone seen his thread over on the bow site beside here and I am primary on the LW and never seen his handle so just ignore stupidity. He does have a right to speak or type but does not have a right that require a response, one really cannot talk back to ignorance. Audios.

10-Apr-18
Truly sorry, TGbow, I just can't help myself sometimes!

From: Owl
10-Apr-18
Nice reply, woodguy65.

From: JTV
10-Apr-18
like the saying goes, More guns = less crime and that is a proven fact ...

From: JTV
10-Apr-18
of course this will mean nothing to the resident PutZ ... but I enjoy proving him wrong on oh so many issues ..

Murder and homicide rates before and after gun bans

"Original post: Every place that has been banned guns (either all guns or all handguns) has seen murder rates go up. You cannot point to one place where murder rates have fallen, whether it’s Chicago or D.C. or even island nations such as England, Jamaica, or Ireland.

For an example of homicide rates before and after a ban, take the case of the handgun ban in England and Wales in January 1997 (source here see Table 1.01 and the column marked “Offences currently recorded as homicide per million population,” UPDATED numbers available here). After the ban, clearly homicide rates bounce around over time, but there is only one year (2010) where the homicide rate is lower than it was in 1996. The immediate effect was about a 50 percent increase in homicide rates. Firearm homicide rate had almost doubled between 1996 and 2002 (see here p. 11). The homicide and firearm homicide rates only began falling when there was a large increase in the number of police officers during 2003 and 2004. Despite the huge increase in the number of police, the murder rate still remained slightly higher than the immediate pre-ban rate.

There are a lot of issues about how different countries measure homicide or murders differently, but that isn’t really relevant for the discussion here as we are talking about changes over time within a country ..

Jamaica’s crime data were obtained from a variety of sources. Its murder data from 1960 to 1967 were obtained from Terry Lacey, Violence and Politics in Jamaica, 1960–70 (Manchester: Manchester University Press, 1977). Professor Gary Mauser obtained the data from 1970 to 2000 from a Professor A. Francis in Jamaica and the data from 2001 to 2006 from the Statistical Institute of Jamaica (http://www.statinja.com/stats.html). Jamaica’s population estimates were obtained from NationMaster.com (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ peo_pop-people-population&date=1975).

See also information on Venezuela available here. It is also true for the Solomon Islands, which even appear to have only had mass public shootings after the 1999 gun ban.

The raw data for DC over a long period of time is available here (the crime rates are available on the bottom half of the screen).

Now Australia didn’t have a complete ban on guns, they didn’t even ban all semi-automatic guns, but a discussion on the changes in their crime rates from their gun buyback is available here (see also here).

Regarding Japan, the point to make clear is that Japan has had a very low murder rate for as long as data is available. The issue here is to separate out whether it is gun control or something else different about Japan that is important, and unless you can see a change before and after there has been a change in gun control laws it is difficult to infer anything about the impact of gun control laws.

Much of the debate over gun control focuses on what is called “cross-sectional” data. That is crime rates are examined at one particular point of time across different places. Here are two paragraphs from John Lott’s The Bias Against Guns that explain the basic problem with cross-sectional analysis.

First, the cross-sectional studies: Suppose for the sake of argument that high-crime countries are the ones that most frequently adopt the most stringent gun control laws. Suppose further, for the sake of argument, that gun control indeed lowers crime, but not by enough to reduce rates to the same low levels prevailing in the majority of countries that did not adopt the laws. Looking across countries, it would then falsely appear that stricter gun control resulted in higher crime. Economists refer to this as an “endogeniety” problem. The adoption of the policy is a reaction to other events (that is, “endogenous”), in this case crime. To resolve this, one must examine how the high-crime areas that chose to adopt the controls changed over time —not only relative to their own past levels but also relative to areas that did not institute such controls.

Unfortunately, many contemporary discussions rely on misinterpretations of cross-sectional data. The New York Times recently conducted a cross-sectional study of murder rates in states with and without the death penalty, and found that “Indeed, 10 of the 12 states without capital punishment have homicide rates below the national average, Federal Bureau of Investigation data shows, while half the states with the death penalty have homicide rates above the national average.” However, they erroneously concluded that the death penalty did not deter murder. The problem is that the states without the death penalty (Alaska, Hawaii, Iowa, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, North Dakota, Rhode Island, West Virginia, Wisconsin, and Vermont) have long enjoyed relatively low murder rates, something that might well have more to do with other factors than the death penalty. Instead one must compare, over time, how murder rates change in the two groups – those adopting the death penalty and those that did not."

More information is available in chapters 2 and 10 of More Guns, Less Crime (University of Chicago Press, 2010, third edition).

From: HDE
10-Apr-18
"...we have more guns in this country than any other nation. And how is our crime rate? How many more guns until we become completely crime free? 5, million10 million?"

The problem isn't guns. The problem is liberal democrats.

10-Apr-18
Beendare, in my home we have shotguns, a 30,06, .22’s and my favorite deer rifle; a Marlin 30-30! I’ve never, not once advocated for a gun ban. However, I also do not believe everyone deserves the privilege of owning a gun either. The NRA’s sole mission is to get as many guns in as many hands as possible. Unacceptable. So back to my original question. If more guns equals less crime, how many more? There are 300 million guns in the US. Will 100 million more finally end crime? I’m attempting to use the logic presented here, after all.

From: JTV
10-Apr-18
"The NRA’s sole mission is to get as many guns in as many hands as possible." <<< another lie from PutZ ... bullcrap !! ... this is NOT the NRA's sole mission..heck you dont even know what it truly is ... you make crap up as you go... you dont use "logic", you have no idea what that even is, like you have NO IDEA what the NRA truly stands for, No idea at all ... .....

From: Bentstick81
10-Apr-18
your fav IMposter. "I also do not believe everyone deserves the privilege of owning a gun either." Tell us what LAW will keep this from happening???

From: trublucolo
10-Apr-18
"If more guns equals less crime you must know we have more guns in this country than any other nation. And how is our crime rate? "

Eliminate 6-8 major liberal progressive shithole cities and our crime rate in the USA plummets. You really are a special kind of stupid fav poster.

From: JTV
10-Apr-18

JTV's Link
Ive shown what the crime rate is you PutZ asswipe... you continue to ignore the fact that is keeps dropping .... and has continued to do so for over 20 years ... another oopsie by PUTZ !! here is just 2017... year-End Analysis: Crime and Murder Down in 2017 December 20, 2017

New York, NY – All measures of crime in the 30 largest American cities — the overall crime rate, violent crime rate, and murder rate — are estimated to decline in 2017 according to a year-end analysis by the Brennan Center for Justice at NYU School of Law.

*****Crime in 2017: Updated Analysis directly undercuts any claims of a nationwide crime wave.***** ... Compiled by a team of economics and policy researchers, it updates the Center’s September report, Crime in 2017: A Preliminary Analysis.

“Once again crime rates remain near historic lows. This is welcome news as 2017 comes to an end, and a clear indication that claims of rising crime are unfounded,” said Ames Grawert, a counsel in the Brennan Center’s Justice Program. “However, there are some cities where violence has increased, and those concerning spikes need to be better understood and addressed.”

Key findings from the analysis include:

The overall crime rate in the 30 largest cities in 2017 is estimated to decline slightly from 2016, falling by 2.7 percent. The violent crime rate will also decrease slightly, by 1.1 percent, essentially remaining stable. The 2017 murder rate in the 30 largest cities is estimated to decline by 5.6 percent. Large decreases this year in Chicago (down 11.9 percent) and Detroit (down 9.8 percent), as well as small decreases in other cities, contributed to this decline. New York City’s murder rate will also decline again, to 3.3 killings per 100,000 people. Some cities are projected to see their murder rates rise, including Charlotte (54.6 percent) and Baltimore (11.3 percent). “Since day one in office, President Trump and his administration have wrongly pushed this idea of ‘American Carnage’ and a nationwide crime wave,” said Inimai Chettiar, the director of the Brennan Center’s Justice Program. “They appear to be trying to scare Americans into supporting some of the administration’s most controversial policies, from changes to drug prosecutions to aggressive immigration enforcement. But, numbers clearly undercut their claims. Crime rates this year remain near historic lows.”

“This latest research from the Brennan Center refutes claims that crime is on the upswing in this country,” said Mark Holden, general counsel and senior vice president at Koch Industries, which has long advocated for reforms in the criminal justice system. “That doesn't mean we should be complacent. We should learn from the dozens of states that have made moves to successfully reduce crime and recidivism while also reducing incarceration. Such common-sense reforms make everyone safer, including law enforcement officers, and ensure that decades of bipartisan progress on criminal justice reform continue.”

"This overall drop in the national crime rate is welcome news for law enforcement officers and all those who care about safeguarding our communities," said Darrel Stephens, former executive director of the Major Cities Chiefs Association and a longtime chief of the Charlotte Mecklenburg Police Department in North Carolina. "Our organization has years of experience analyzing crime data in major cities, and the Brennan Center's methodology and analysis here is sound.”

Click here to see more of the Brennan Center’s research on crime rates in America, including an analysis of historical crime trends from 1990-2016, available here. And, click here to read more about the methodology behind the Brennan Center’s crime analyses.

From: K Cummings
10-Apr-18
“I do ask for all those that read this is to avoid any thread this clown should start, if he chimes in on an existing thread the right thing to do would be not to answer ... “

From: JTV
10-Apr-18

JTV's embedded Photo
I am KPC, and I approve of this message ... anyone got a toothpick ?
JTV's embedded Photo
I am KPC, and I approve of this message ... anyone got a toothpick ?
but yet KPC is here ... go figure

From: Will
10-Apr-18
Question on that article about crime rates. Dont most of those cities cited as having lower violent crime rates coincide with places with increasingly strong weapons laws over the past 10 to 15 years?

From: K Cummings
10-Apr-18
When are you going to live up to what you said JTV?

Isn't that what you expect of others?

KPC

From: Annony Mouse
12-Apr-18
Interesting article from Ammoland this morning. Seems like an obviously mental problem'd man had weapons removed due to his apparent mental state. After being cleared and having to go to court to have his arms returned, and a subsequent mental breakdown, the police notified the ATF and the man was arrested by ATF for being in possession of those same firearms. He is being penalized by the mistake of the local authorities.

Read more: https://www.ammoland.com/2018/04/guns-return-to-man-after-being-committed-now-charged-with-federal-gun-crime/#ixzz5CT2JfIIt Under Creative Commons License: Attribution Follow us: @Ammoland on Twitter | Ammoland on Facebook

Police Return Guns to Prohibited Person, then Call ATF to Re-Arrest Him Ammoland Inc. Posted on April 11, 2018 by John Crump ATF Police Return Guns to Prohibited Person, then Call ATF to Re-Arrest Him

U.S.A. –-(Ammoland.com)- Steven Drew Montana was a welder at Ingalls Shipbuilding in Mississippi. In February 2016, Montana complained to the security officer at the shipyard that people were stealing his property from the yard.

The NCIS officer thought Montana was experiencing “some mental issues” due to the way that Montana was acting. The security officer confiscated Montana's work badge and told Montana to immediately leave the shipyard. Montana complied with the order, but he would later return to his work site claiming people forced him to take drugs and were following him.

The officer notified Pascagoula police about his concern about Montana's mental state. The cops stopped Montana's truck, and in their opinion, he was acting erratically. Police found several firearms in Montana's vehicle. He wasn't committing a crime, but he was violating Ingalls policy about guns on company policy which is not an arrestable offense. The police were still concerned about Montana's mental health, so they took him into custody.

Soon after, Montana, 26, had the rest of his guns seized by police on a court order. A Chancery Court judge committed him to a state mental institution in Purvis for 10 days in March 2017. Doctors cleared him of any mental issues, and they later him released without any medications. He wanted to get back the guns that police seized from him.

Montana went to court and successfully obtained a court order 9 months later for the return of his firearms in December 2017. The Pascagoula police honored the request and returned his guns including an AK47 rifle and a Glock pistol stating that his mental health seemed OK.

Montana would later return to the police station on Feb. 6. This time he was stating that Ingalls security was following him. He went on to claim that he knew of a murder that took place and someone at the shipyard was the murderer.

The police did not believe his claim. It was at this time that the Pascagoula Police realized that they released firearms to someone committed to a mental hospital. Capt. Shannon Broom notified the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives as well as Ingalls security about Montana outrageous claims as well as his past history.

Once committed to a mental institution, Montana became a prohibited person. He was legally not allowed to possess guns. The ATF used this violation of the law to obtain an arrest warrant for Montana.

On Feb. 26 2018 Federal authorities arrested Montana on federal firearms charges of possessing weapons as a prohibited person. Authorities are currently holding him without bond.

In court documents Montana's defense attorney, Melvin G. Cooper, question if Capt. Broom knew or should have known that Montana was a prohibited person. He claims that it was the local police department that broke the law and not his client.

Cooper is asking U.S. District Judge, Sul Ozerden, to dismiss the charges against his client. He is laying the blame at the feet of Capt. Broom and the Pascagoula Police Department for giving the guns back to a prohibited person. Montana's trial is set to begin in May 2018.

Ingalls Shipbuilding, a builder of Navy warships and the largest employer in Mississippi, did not return our request for comment.

The Pascagoula Police Department informed AmmoLand News that they do not have a public statement at this time on Montana's trial and referred us to the BATF.

The BATF did not return our request for comment.

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