Contributors to this thread:
FBI raids office of Trump Attorney
On referral of the special counsel apparently over payments to Stormy Daniels. Breaking now. Word is the money flow of the payment is in question and whether or not it broke campaign finance laws.
And this is important why? Just another witch hunt and waste of taxpayer money.
Big deal. I could care less what Trump did or didn't do with an ex porn star when he wasn't President.
Well, if you don't think the breaking of federal campaign finance laws then you probably won't care. Unlike you, there's a lot of people interested in what the special counsel investigation concludes and do care about breaking developments.
I'll care when HRC is in a orange jumpsuit .
Here is another past breaking development. Hillary Clinton had her government server in her bathroom which held top secret information which BTW somehow landed on Anthony "Sex Pistol" Weiner's laptop. Let's weigh just those two of a hundred from zero's administration. Idiot.
Oh hey! Remember when Obama’s attorney had his own attorney? No?! We’ll do you remember when Obama’s atty was raided by the fbi?! ME EITHER. #corruptadministration
If paying hush money to a porn star is breaking federal campaign laws then we need to change the federal campaign laws. This has NOTHING to do with the election or Trump's fitness for office. This is just fodder for idiots and Trump haters.
atheist. Give it time. obama, hillary, the fbi. It's all mounting up. So you left russian collusion, and back to the porn star. What will it be next week??? 8^)))
So tell us your fav IMposter. If Trump LIED as much as you did, had close to 40 fake registration's, like you have, to become POTUS, what would you say about that??? 8^)))
once again NOTHING TO DO WITH TRUMP AND THE CAMPAIGN .... witch hunt .... PutZ, how much Illegal goings on do you have in your background ? ... ... Show me the man, and I'll produce the crime ...
If all of the money was transferred prior to declaring his candidacy or officially starting his fundraising.....I'm not seeing any laws broke between a private citizen and a skin queen. If money was transferred after above declarations....then I can see the interest. That said....what does that have to do with the Russia collusion and fake dossier that started the whole mess?
"there's a lot of people interested in what the special counsel investigation concludes and do care about breaking developments."
Looks like the only ones here that care are you and your buddy Sybil.
"If paying hush money to a porn star is breaking federal campaign laws then we need to change the federal campaign laws."
Maybe you can call up your legislators and let them know that you think it should be legal to use campaign finances to pay off porn stars then.
And JL, it has nothing to do with Russia collusion. However, the evidence that ultimately led to a warrant and a raid was, according to reports, uncovered by the special counsel and turned over to the DOJ.
as I asked PutZ, just how clean is your life BEG ?? ......
I’m fairly confident that the FBI won’t be raiding my home or office anytime soon, JTV. I do have a few speeding tickets over the years but I doubt they’ll assign a special counsel to look into it.
The establishment wont rest when it comes to Trump.
Too bad they wont go that strong after Hillary and her husband..
If Trump did something wrong he should pay but it's obvious they dont want him there upsetting their political machine.
Now we know what Stormy wants.
Of course it's bigeasyliberal leading the charge, and his buddy Paul Zeidan backing him up. Mueller and the rest of the big power dark swamp is not going to rest until they can pin something on Trump, this is of no surprise and it was of no surprise to Trump's attorney. The America hating liberal cabal needs to remove this president before he can appoint more federal judges/Justices and tear their very power fabric down. When this fails, they will move on to another plan of attack. The Rushkies are comin, the porn stars are comin!! So Chicken Little yells in pure desperation....LOVE it!
Nothing will happen. Nothing. If anything, it sets a healthy precedent that no one is above the law. That way when Clinton, Holder and the rest of the gang hey there day in the sun, the public won’t over-react. Trump is going nowhere
Mueller is being amazingly smart in this. The search warrants didnt come from his office. He referred the matter to another proscecutor, another division of the FBI. So now it is becoming almost irrelevant if Mueller gets fired-- Trump still can be prosecuted.
The raid was authorized by US attorney for Southern District NY. He's a Trump appointee. Sessions is his boss. You need evidence to get this search warrant.
....meanwhile, back at the White House, the west wing has been evacuated. Apparently someone has crapped Himself.
Prosecuted FOR WHAT ???? Screwing a damn porn star... should I have been so lucky when I was younger .... and once again THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ORIGINAL INTENT OF MUELLER..... NOTHING !!! .... what this all boils down to is a strong hatred of Trump, nothing more....Hell, Mueller's ass is on the line right now, he himself is involved deeply with the Uranium One fiasco and FISAgate and the fake dossier..... the clown is trying to cause a ruckus any way he can as he obfuscates from his illegal doings ...
Finally, this is it!!!!
The "Smoking Gun"!!!!
How many times have we seen this movie before on the CF?
Meanwhile Trump is meeting with his cabinet to make a decision about Syria using chemical weapons on it's own people. Good to see the Democrats have their priorities in order.
What do the “Democrats” have to do with the raids that were authorized by a judge based on evidence handed over to the US Attorney’s office by a Republican Special Counsel?? Today’s developments have nothing to do with Democrats prioritizing the “attack on Trump” over Syria.
This may be the smoking gun, but not the one Trump haters have been fantisizing about. This may totally backfire on Mueller, I’ ll bet many attorneys are watching what’s going on in the deep state, is there any attorney ,client privilege anymore ?
Fake info to use to get FISA warrants and now this. FBI=KGB
It may have started 10 years ago, but it appears Stormy is still screwing Trump.
Let me know when Hillary's on trial...
Mueller is too smart to throw the entire investigation away on a 'bogus raid' Nope, he has some real evidence because THATS WHATS REQUIRED to get the warrant.
Trump loves to say Mueller has found nothing. Putting aside how much Mueller has found (for what probably costs less than a Trump trip to Mar-a-Lago) ,Trump has absolutely no idea what Mueller has on Trump, Trump Jr., Kushner, Cohen, Stone, and on and on. No one does. But all indications are that Mueller is on to something big if he advised a raid on Cohen.
maybe hillary's missing emails are in stormy's vagina.
The way I understand it if the client has criminal intentions attorney client privledge can be pushed aside.
If Trump didn’t know about the payment or NDA then that is issues for the prosecution.
I am curious if the money came from the campaign or if Cohen was ever paid back from the campaign.
I could be understanding things way off base. Time will tell. Hopefully BK chimes in soon.
One thing is for sure is Rosenstein will be looking for a job soon. Trump was pissed with his answers after Syrian meeting.
It's clear you're more interested in Stormy than what going on in Syria otherwise you wouldn't have started this thread. I'll include you and Sybil along with the Dems. You will all be disappointed.
Attorney/client privilege does not come into play here if they are forwarding, hiding or creating a crime. He'd have little or no reason to fire Rosenstein however, did Sessions know about this raid and authorize it?
BIG EASY LIBERAL is wetting his panties. The Left is ruthless. Where you so concerned with Hilliary and Clinton Foundation collusion and breaking of laws? NAhh Mad Dog
I think Congress should follow their example. Early morning raid to get all those documents that the FBI is slow walking. Not real handcuffs, those nylon zip ties.
I can just imagine the libs here all cuddled with their teddybears with little smiles on their faces dreaming of impeachment tonight while they sleep all compfy in their beds, yet could care less about women and children dying from inhaling chemicals from their own leader!
your fav IMposter. You are full of $hit. 8^)))
Hopefully congress gets the doc’s soon. If the Dems win control of the house this fall there won’t be any repercussions then.
atheist. I suggest you quit throwing LIES around and listen to Mark Levin. I was listening to his show the other night, and he pretty much said they have NOTHING on Trump. If i understood him correctly, he said that Trump can't be indicted while he is POTUS, and mueller has nothing to get him on. Pretty much like reading your bull$hit. You also have nothing. Still trying to get something to stick, but it keeps falling on your head.
Impeachment isnt going to happen. What I dream of is every embarrassing detail about trumps miserable life comes to light. His taxes, his payments to women, his lies and cheating all out in the open so that he's got no choice but to resign in shame. I'll take that. He deserves that much.
And just think your fav IMposter. YOU make him look like a saint. Look at your miserable life.
PutZ is glad that this country is turning into a 3rd world hell hole like Cuba or Venezuela where political adversaries lie, cheat. steal, produce fake dossiers, SPY on citizens and try any and all underhanded ploys they can to undermine a sitting POTUS who has done wonders for America, bringing it back from the edge that Obama left it perched on ... yea, PutZ your a proud dweeb ... YOU and your ilk are a direct danger to this great country and you dont care if you burn it down ...
Yfp, were you talking bout Trump or Clinton? Sounds like you want your President to fail...wow what a difference a year makes. I understand your side and position but cut the nonsense accusing others of your same sins... oh you dont sin your an atheist... my bad.
After over 40 investigations and over30 hours of testifying, Clinton was exonerated. By committees led by Senate and House Republicans.
Thebiggest mistakes trump made was thinking he could 1) hide his secrets the way he did when he ran his business and 2) continue to run the nation the way he ran his company. Now his deepest darkest secrets are going to be exposed. But it won’t matter to his most loyal fans. You’ll go down with him and forsake our nation all because you fail to see what’s right in front of your nose. A crooked, immoral conman hellbent on destroying this amazing country.
One last point. What would have to be discovered for you to finally disavow this creep?
I don’t want your answer, because it’s irrelevant to me, but it’s something you should ask yourselves. His day of reckoning is coming.
“I do ask for all those that read this is to avoid any thread this clown should start, if he chimes in on an existing thread the right thing to do would be not to answer ... “
Like what has been mentioned before. Some that were going to testify against hillary either died a suspicious death, or plead the fifth. Also atheist, the investigation for hillary and obama's cobel and FBI is just beginning. "His day of reckoning is coming." Want to bet??? Want to take me up on my offer this time??? 8^)))
I am KPC, and I just had dinner ....
I am KPC, and I just had dinner ....
but yet, the head vulture is here... go figure...
Who is this Trump of which you guys keep speaking? I only see a David Dennison listed in Cohen's NDA.
And, IF impeachment occurs for Dennison, it won't be because of the democs. There would have to be plenty of repubs too.
"last point. What would have to be discovered for you to finally disavow this creep"?
Bwhahaha...coming from the guy who hasn't disavowed the Clintons after all their outright crimes!
Syria is a huge issue. But didn't have anything to do with the initial post. Maybe there is nothing. But if it turns out that the president was doing some thing illegal, are you guys going to be ok?
“IF impeachment occurs for Dennison, it won't be because of the democs. There would have to be plenty of repubs too.”
That’s exactly why I think we will see a report right before the midterms. Perfect timing to get more Dems in office to push impeachment proceedings.
What did he pay her.... $130,000 ?? That's like me giving someone a nickel...... who cares ??
I think this will have an opposite effect, this will push more Repubs to the polls to keep the crap head dems from getting a foothold... I know I will be there .. this country has gained so much because of Trump, not to let it go to waste because of a soft coup attempt by the dastardly dems....if the Dems gain anything like the House or Senate this country will get screwed big time, we can not afford to let it happen ...
Pass the popcorn. Please.
dont choke on an un-popped kernel ... or worse yet, dont chip your dentures on one ..
You would think the "Libertarians" here would be appalled by illegal seizure of attorney-client privileged information by the FBI as happened today with the blessing of the DOJ. This is clearly government interference with the attorney client relationship granted under the sixth amendment of the constitution. And we have a "Libertarian" applauding this as if it' something we should all be happy about. Pathetic.
Like Ive said before, they behave like democrats
PD, what was illegal about it? Not every communication between an attorney and a client is included in attorney-client privilege. One type of communication that’s excluded: communications between an attorney and a client that might be predicated on committing or covering up a crime.
At this point ANYTHING the FBI does is suspect as being legal at all......
Like PaulZ and other.... Leftists..... having knowingly lied over and over the credibility issues make ANYTHING they say or do untrustworthy.
WRT this issue with Trump, his lawyer and a whore.... good luck.... the straws you so desperately grasp at are likely your last few before the real threats to American Justice get opened like the can of slimy worms they are......
When Mueller gets fired some on the left might actually spontaneously combust
Solid post, LHCA... I agree.
They are just trying to blunt the report that is coming out on Clinton and Obama.
Geoffrey Berman, the interim U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York, donated $5,400 to Trump. He orchestrated the raid on Cohens Office. He’s also a pal of Rudy Giuliani. Just in case someone was going to pull the “this is a democratic witchhunt” card.
I’m sure you true patriots will want to join me and Thank Mr. Berman for placing your loyalty to the Constitution and the rule of law before your party/candidate. A crooked candidate/president at that.
All of this is nothing more than a deep state smoke screen. In the end Trump will still be your President.
I don't and wouldn't join any LYING, PHONY, FRAUD, like you your fav IMposter. And YES, it's a democrat witch hunt.
Pretty sure the only thing Mueller has to go on is that Cohen lied to his lender about what the $130,000 was being used for. This is the only shady/illegal thing they may find but enough to get their warrants in hopes of finding bigger fish to fry. Pathetic democratic witch hunt at its finest.
A democratic witch hunt conducted by republicans appointed by the POTUS...right.
When Mueller gets fired some on the left might actually spontaneously combust
On air force one, trump said he had no knowledge of a $130,000 payment to Stormy Daniels.
If trump is telling the truth, why would he care if his lawyer was raided? Trump had nothing to do with it. Just ask him.
Like almost everything trump does, his reaction to an event makes it worse. He was on video saying he grabbed pussies and his followers forgave - you don't think they would have done the same for a 10 year old affair? No, he repeats what has hidden his embarrassing moments during his private career. Worked then - because who really cares about a reality show host?
The problem from Trump's perspective is that all his legal records, regardless of whether there is any wrong doing or not, are now in the hands of the FBI. This is a big deal. The FBI better have their ducks in a row. If the FBI is cowboying like they did in the past with the Hillary investigation (writing the conclusion of their investigation before even interviewing the major players) then this could turn out real bad for them and the country.
I'm betting the only 'crime' they are going after is that Cohen lied how he was using the $100K+ home equity loan. Instead of using it for home improvement, he used it to pay the hooker...They are using that as their key to get into Trumps records. It appears to be a hail Mary pass to me, but time will tell...
That certainly looks to be part of the equation, MT in MO.
"Michael Cohen, the longtime attorney of President Trump, is under federal investigation for possible bank fraud, wire fraud and campaign finance violations, according to three people with knowledge of the case."
130,000 Trump spends more than that on hair product... something stinks... had to take out home equity loan for a poltry 130 g's? Hey if something illegal was done i'd like to know, but that works both ways... If they dug this deep into the Cartel i'm sure they would uncover a whole lot worse. Do you disagree lefty's?
"Not every communication between an attorney and a client is included in attorney-client privilege. "
FBI now has everything on Cohen's computer and all communications between Cohen and Trump. This is government overreach at it's worst and we have fake Libertarians here rooting for this kind of Gestapo BS. What a phony.
Yeah, I don't really consider acting on credible evidence of crimes being committed as "overreach," but cool if you set the bar somewhere different than I do. And I'm not "rooting" for anything. I started a thread reporting breaking news. I haven't made a single statement in regard to wishing for any particular outcome of this investigation nor have I claimed this proves anyone is guilty of anything. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty - that goes for Cohen and Trump too.
What’s interesting is the ACLU is extremely quiet on this.
Yes I’d love all illegal activities out of our govt. weed it all out. Clinton testified. Over 40 republican led committees investigated everything from Benghazi to emails to theClinton Foundation. And what was found? Nothing illegal. Don’t get angry at the messenger, these were GOP led committees. Gowdy and company etc. I do recall you guys cheering and wishing him to be the next Supreme Court Justice or AG. Hell some of you wanted him to run for POTUS! This special counsel is working on behalf of the rule of law. No man is above it. Period. If you believe in our laws and our democratic process, you’d be cheering this on. Instead you are so blinded by your adoration for a conman. Why is the question. Gersuch? Removing a few regulations? Because last I checked, the party of trump just increase our deficit by a trillion dollars. And it’ll increase. But hey, who’s counting, right?
If there is a "crime" it's a white collar crime that is handled attorney to attorney every day of the week without government raids. This is clearly a witch hunt and clearly government overreach. Even liberal NBC said today that this is a "very unusual" way to handle an issue of this nature. We can only hope that this is the straw that finally ends the Mueller shit show.
If you are truly a Libertarian you would be condemning this type of behavior. But, after reading your posts here for several months it's clear who you are.
I agree Michael. If this was happening to anyone else the ACLU would be all over it.
Ok, I'll come clean...I'm that pro-1A, pro-2A, pro-hunting, pro-free market, anti-protectionist, pro-immigration "fake" Libertarian! You got me!
BEG - "Ok, I'll come clean...I'm that pro-1A, pro-2A, pro-hunting, pro-free market, anti-protectionist, pro-immigration "fake" Libertarian! You got me!"
Typical, doesn't care about 3A-10A...8^)
Someone guessed this morning that some foreign agent donated $150,000 to Trump's charity in 2015. The same agent donated millions to Clinton's charity but that is Okay because she is a Clinton and above the law.
Alan Dershowitz comments at the link.
My guess is most people already know Trump is/was chasing skirts and figure Stormy's story is likely true.
If it gets confirmed, public opinion won't change. As for the payment, unless it came directly from his election fund, it will not be a big issue legally.
Great guy? NO.
Better of the two flawed choices we had? Yes.
Is there more evidence to obtaining the warrant than just stormy daniels’ pay off? I sure would hope so, this is gonna be either a big all or nothing. And if turns out to be nothing what a waste of our tax dollars.
“Tell people a lie 3 Times, they’ll believe anything. Just tell people what they want to hear, play to their fantasies and then close the deal.” —Donald Trump
look at how many LIES PutZ has told himself, hell, he believes every one... and every one the Fake News Media craps out ..... once again, this has NOTHING to do with the original intent of Mueller.... where is the THERE THERE ?? .... oopsie, there isnt .. and Putz just keeps on spinning, trolling and lying ...... must really suck to be PutZ ...
Ah, so you don’t like liars? I guess you don’t like trump too? And what about yourself? Never told a lie Saint Jeffrey? Oh do tell us how you maintain such a pure existence. Hey here’s a tip: People lie. Get over it. Here’s another one: you are no better than me.
No Putz, Many people are better than you, many fine people that post on this site .... your a lying fraud and you prove it every time you spout off ...
"Geoffrey Berman, the interim U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York, donated $5,400 to Trump. He orchestrated the raid on Cohens Office. He’s also a pal of Rudy Giuliani. Just in case someone was going to pull the “this is a democratic witchhunt” card."
"UPDATE 12:45 p.m.: ABC News has learned Geoffery Berman was not involved in the decision to raid Michael Cohen’s office, as he is recused from the case. Others in the SDNY attorney’s office handled the decision."
I seriously doubt this is actually about anything other than mid-term elections then 2020. Keep the dirt show up and sway people.
Plain and simple.
EF... he's a #neverTrumper that proclaims to be a librarian (pun/sarcasm intended) .... ..
Beg ... the way Ive came to look at people and comments on here is to think of it like I am talking/arguing with my friends or girlfriend ... other than PutZ and lefty, I never take this to seriously .... heck, you should hear us go round and round at times, you'd think we were coming to blows ...lol .... hell, she's even cut me off for a day or two ... but making up is so much fun !!
I seriously doubt it will happen, but who cares if Trump is impeached? Pence would have appointed Gorsuch and likely knows the same names for the next SCOTUS choices. It's not like Trump would be replaced by a liberal. Pence would likely make more headway in the conservative agenda without all the baggage and embarrassment.
There are many people that I know and like who are liars. I also like myself. They know it and I know it. I know where I stand with them unlike those who say they never lie or have not ever lied because they are the closet liars that could hurt you the most.
"Great guy? NO."
I know one thing that was for sure when I was a younger man. I would rather spend the night on the town with a person like Donald Trump and his idea of fun. Hands down. Great Guy? Bet your a$$ because you probably would be getting more than a toilet seat. If that is not fun you have a sickness, or, you are just too old to either know or make a difference.
atheist. You never had discipline as a youngster. You can tell the people that has had discipline, and those that haven't. You were a spoiled punk, that daddy bought and paid your way through child hood. That's why you are the wuss, that you are. It's obvious.
"There is much speculation as to the significance of the search of the offices and hotel room of President Trump’s lawyer, Michael Cohen. To obtain a search warrant, prosecutors must demonstrate to a judge that they have probable cause to believe that the premises to be searched contain evidence of crime. They must also specify the area to be searched, the items to be seized and, in searches of computers, the word searches to be used.
At least that’s the constitutional requirement in theory, especially where the Sixth Amendment right to counsel is involved, in addition to the general Fourth Amendment right against unreasonable searches. Yet, in practice, judges often give the FBI considerable latitude, relying on the “firewalls” and “taint teams” they set up to protect the subject of the search from violation of his or her constitutional rights.
But the firewalls and taint teams are comprised of government agents who themselves may not be entitled to read or review many of the items seized. It is an imperfect protection of important constitutional rights. That’s why Justice Department officials must be careful to limit the searching of lawyers’ offices to compelling cases involving serious crimes. We don’t know at this point what the prosecutors are looking for but, if it relates to payments made to porn star Stormy Daniels, that would not seem to justify so potentially intrusive a search of Cohen’s confidential lawyer-client files. There are, of course, exceptions to the lawyer-client privilege. First, the lawyer must be acting as a lawyer, not as a friend or business associate. But the scope of a lawyer’s work is quite broad, encompassing much more than merely giving legal advice. It includes settling cases by making payments to potential litigants. Second, the lawyer must be engaged in lawful activities on behalf of the clients. Illegal or fraudulent activities are not covered by the privilege. Nor are communications with third persons, such as the lawyer for the other side, though such communications may be covered by the much weaker “settlement privilege.”
Civil libertarians should be concerned whenever the government interferes with the lawyer-client relationship. Clients should be able to rely on confidentiality when they disclose their most intimate secrets in an effort to secure their legal rights. A highly publicized raid on the president’s lawyer will surely shake the confidence of many clients in promises of confidentiality by their lawyers. They will not necessarily understand the nuances of the confidentiality rules and their exceptions. They will see a lawyer’s office being raided and all his files seized.
I believe we would have been hearing more from civil libertarians— the American Civil Liberties Union, attorney groups and privacy advocates — if the raid had been on Hillary Clinton’s lawyer. Many civil libertarians have remained silent about potential violations of President Trump’s rights because they strongly disapprove of him and his policies. That is a serious mistake, because these violations establish precedents that lie around like loaded guns capable of being aimed at other targets.
I have been widely attacked for defending the constitutional rights of a president I voted against. In our hyperpartisan age, everyone is expected to choose a side, either for or against Trump. But the essence of civil liberties is that they must be equally applicable to all. The silence among most civil libertarians regarding the recent raid shows that we are losing that valuable neutrality."
MORE BY ALAN DERSHOWITZ
Oh Jeffrey, if only you knew. Which ,of course you don’t. Oh hey, do you think it takes discipline to become a US Marine? Do you Think it takes discipline to then use the GI Bill to earn 2 masters degrees? Of course you’ll say no because you’ve done none of the above. So save your sanctimonious drivel. Please.
you really are a ignorant dumb assed dweeb ... I did more in my time in the Marines than what you could ever think of ... I wasnt an office pouge like you "say" you were.... I walked the walk ... I still do ... I'm not some little faggot brain half wit like yourself who brainwashed and indoctrinated poor mentally inept kids into socialism and liberalism .... you have proven yourself time and again to be a loser, a liar and a fraud... one thing I never do on here is to the lie...never have and never will... my friends who post on here know the truth .... you on the other hand lie daily on here, we see it, we know it .... we all laugh at you for we see you as the dweeb you really are in life ... may God have mercy on your worthless soul, and if he decides your not worth the effort, may you rot on hell ...
your fav IMposter. Tell us how you got your honorable discharge??? Sounds to me like you just used our MILITARY to get what you wanted. Enlighten us, OL HONEST ONE. 8^)))
Ha! Oh boy, sounds like you two are really lathering up now! “How you got your honorable discharge”. Hmm. Well I did my job, performed well on the range, scored as close to 300 on the pt , presto, my time was up and thanks to FDR, the GI Bill was created and I used it as it was intended. Thanks to your taxes Jeff and Jeff. Used “our military?” Ha! It’s not yours pal, I served, I excelled and adapted and overcame. You? I don’t even want to think what you were doing while I was serving our great nation. And Jeffrey 2, Chesty would smack you for the way you talk to your fellow devil dogs. Especially how you’ve spoke about Mueller. Shame on you. You’re a disgrace to every Marine that walked before and after you.
Now atheist. I guess we have to decide whether or not you are telling us the truth, or LYING your a$$ off, like you do DAILY. I think you are LYING your a$$ off. You can't handle guns. If you was in the Military, you would see just how important guns are to the people of this GREAT COUNTRY. Not only that, while you were bragging about your fantasy Marine story and your supposedly high shooting scores, and yet you can't come up with ONE GUN LAW that will make students safer in their schools. You are nothing but a LYING FRAUD. 8^)
Hard to prosecute Hillary and her ilk if they disobeyed legal requests for information and devices during the investigations and destroyed all the evidence, electronic and physical. That itself is a HUGE crime. Really no different than disposing of the bodies of people killed, destroying the weapon, threatening the witnesses, blackmailing the judges and congress expecting the fact you committed a crime to just go away, but then again the is the Superior court and soul searching we will all be held accountable to when we meet our maker....
What is with all this assumption about paying Cohen back with "Campaign money"?? Maybe other politicians who were not billionaires had to misappropriate campaign funds. But Trump could just hand Cohen that kind of money out of pocket. Its not a campaign matter at all, like or in kind. It was a money fronted by his attorney to shut up a whore about to extort him, reimbursed out of personal funds. What crime then??
If they can do this to the Presidents personal attorney, What the heck can they do to the average citizen? All the crap that went on with O'Bama & Clinton & no raids but a home equity loan or a paid off hooker gets it done. WE really need to clean house & start OVER. All the information given about a crazy nut case guy & nothing done until he shoots up a school & 17 kids.. It's some kinda messed up..
This was a strictly political action no matter what the likes of Paul Zeidan, indoctirnaire extraordinary of Briarcliff Manor HS, in his numerous fake registrations would like to claim. Trumps temporary nominee DID NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THIS!!!
Geoffrey Berman, Interim U.S. Attorney for Southern District of New York, recused from Michael Cohen investigation
Played no role in raid on Cohen’s law office and seizure of attorney-client files from Trump’s personal attorney.
Monday, the FBI raided Michael Cohen’s office. Cohen is Trump’s personal attorney.
Now, Geoffrey Berman, the Trump-appointed Interim U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York, is recused from the Cohen investigation. Berman’s status as a Trump temporary appointee was used to claim that the warrant was not politically motivated.
But now it turns out that Berman had recused himself and had nothing to do with the warrant against Cohen.
Dershowitz was at the White House yesterday and last night.
I can’t but wonder if he offered up some advice to Trump and his lawyers.
"But the Fourth and Sixth Amendments provide far broader protections: they prohibit government officials from in any way intruding on the privacy of lawyer-client confidential rights of citizens."
"In other words, if the government improperly seizes private or privileged material, the violation has already occurred, even if the government never uses the material from the person from whom it was seized."
This is exactly what I was saying in my post above. Then our resident fake Libertarian defends this heinous government overreach by stating:
"Not every communication between an attorney and a client is included in attorney-client privilege. "
I though Libertarians were defenders of civil liberties and condemners of government overreach.
"I though Libertarians were defenders of civil liberties and condemners of government overreach."
yea, this is one of the big reasons they are suppose to be "libertarians" .... this is a YUUUUge overreach by Mueller... he and Weinstein has done this crap before and were hung out to dry by SCOTUS over their tactics and over reach and blown investigations ...
I agree with Alan Dershowitz that it’s a big deal if the government improperly seized privileged material. The operative word is improper and you’ve provided no evidence to suggest that what occurred was improper in the eyes of the law. Again, maybe you feel that if a lawyer is committing a crime in conjunction with or on the behalf of a client that the criminal behavior should be protected. I happen to feel differently.
Luckily for me the justice system does too which is why the crime-fraud exception to attorney-client privilege exists. There’s also a reason the bar is set incredibly high in these cases - to protect civil liberties. Unless you point me to evidence that suggests otherwise (no, your opinion isn’t evidence), the appropriate process was followed and the bar was met, which suggests it’s VERY LIKELY something illegal was going on.
The ACLU happens to agree with me as well.
Don't get your hopes up BEG or LHDA. Trump's not going anywhere.
Of course they agree with you BEG. You both hate trump!
Never said Trump was going anywhere. I think Cohen is in much more trouble than Trump if I had to guess. Time will tell.
It doesn't matter, to many people with the power want him gone... all the so called players on the right are bailing ...following marching orders. That song no man is an island no man stands alone... ah, tell that to President Trump.
Clinton wasn't impeached and disbarred because he gave a speech declaring "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" or some such..... wagging his finger for emphasis. There was no laws broken by that statement. None. He was not under oath at the time.
He was impeached and disbarred for lying under oath.
Sleeping around is not a crime. Paying people to keep secrets is not a crime. Their only angle to Trump is that they're trying to find a way, some way, any way...... to try and connect that to coming from his campaign. Grasping at straws. A campaign spending violation? Really?
Ever hear of John Edwards?
"Rick Hasen, professor of law at University of California at Irvine, thinks that it’s unlikely that anyone would face criminal penalties for any possible legal violations.
“As the failed John Edwards prosecution shows, proving a campaign finance violation in these circumstances is tricky,” he wrote. Edwards, a candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination in 2008, was found not guilty of campaign finance violations in 2012 after a donor paid $1 million to keep knowledge of Edwards’s out-of-wedlock child from becoming public the year before his presidential bid.
“A criminal prosecution by the Department of Justice requires proof beyond a reasonable doubt, and here there are two possible motives: one to help Trump’s campaign (making the conduct illegal) and one to help Trump’s marriage or reputation (not illegal). There’s enough here for prosecutors to look to see if there’s some documentary evidence like emails or texts showing Cohen wanted to help Trump’s campaign. But without such evidence a prosecution would be hard. An FEC finding is civil, with a lower burden of proof but even they didn’t go after John Edwards.”
TD explains why I said it looks like a Hail Mary pass to me...They got nothing and are getting desperate...maybe...we shall see...
when the IG reports start coming out, you will see Muellers name many times and it wont be in a positive manner either.... Mueller and Weissman has botched many prosecutions and and investigations... the clown is past desperation ....
TD’s post is exactly why I think it was a way to get Trump to fire Mueller. The fall out of that would be HUGE.
Not to mention a case against Cohen with the way they acquired the evidence could easily end up at the SCOTUS feet on a constitutional basis of the 4th and 6th. Wouldn’t the prosecution know this?
"a pack of hunter killers" looking to take down a President and overturn a legitimate election, all because their gal didn't happen to win
All this baggage, and their b!tch still couldn't win a rigged election. Must really suck to be a democrat.
The pos dems couldnt win legally, so now they are trying to undermine a sitting President by going the soft Coup route ..... this shows the type of scum the dems/libs/#neverTrumpers really are .... and again this has nothing to do with "collusion" ....smh .. yep, welcome to Venezuela ... really pitiful ..
Bowsniper. That is EXACTLY what's happening. Just think how the American people would benefit if the democrats would work with Trump, as hard as they are trying to run him out of office. The democrats are too busy trying to get more ILLEGALS to vote the next election. The democrats are more worried about DACA, then the American DREAMERS. All for VOTES. What a shame.
MUELLER?S COUP: One Set of Laws for Clinton, A Completely Different Set For Trump
By Daniel John Sobieski
If there was any doubt that Robert Mueller's Ahab-like goal is the unseating of President Trump at all costs and by any means, it was erased by the thuggish FBI raid he orchestrated on the home and office of Trump personal attorney Michael Cohen.
Can't find any collusion between Trump and Russia? Hey, why not look for collusion between Cohen and professional porn actress Stormy Daniels? Was she paid to go away with campaign funds? Even so, that's an FEC violation punishable by a fine and something that does not require a SWAT team.
It certainly does not compare with money funneled by Team Hillary and the DNC though a law firm to Fusion GPS and British foreign agent Christopher Steele to put together a fake dossier on Trump using Russian sources. But where were the raids on the offices of the DNC, the Hillary Clinton campaign, and Fusion GPS?
This is the FBI of Andrew McCabe, Lisa Page, and Peter Strzok, whose mission was to keep Hillary Clinton out of prison and Donald Trump out of the White House. They never raided the home and office of Cheryl Mills, did they? They never raided Hillary's house or seized the acid-washed server, did they? But Michael Cohen is a threat to our democracy warranting brute force? Why wasn't Michel Cohen offered the immunity deal given to Cheryl Mills and other Clinton cronies?
The FBI gave partial immunity to Hillary Clinton's former State Department chief of staff Cheryl Mills and two other staffers during the investigation of Clinton's private e-mail server, according to a member of Congress.
House Oversight Committee Chairman Jason Chaffetz, who has been looking into the Clinton's e-mail practices, said federal investigators were given access to Mills' computer but only on the condition that the findings could not used against her.
"No wonder they couldn't prosecute a case. They were handing out immunity deals like candy," Chaffetz said.
He said the others granted immunity were John Bentel, then-director of the State Department's Office of Information Resources Management, and Clinton aide Heather Samuelson.
Let us get this straight. Clinton's attorney (Cheryl Mills) gets immunity and is allowed to decide which of Hillary's emails to delete and which to hand over, but Michael Cohen has his office raided because he might be hiding something? If they were worried Cohen might be destroying evidence, then what about the 33,000 emails destroyed by Team Hillary? Michael Flynn was convicted of false statements to investigators, but Andy McCabe, who, according to Rep. Jim Jordan, lied four times to investigators, walks?
Hillary's attorney Cheryl Mills was given an immunity deal despite smashing up myriads of laptops and cell phones. Trump's lawyer Michael Cohen does nothing and has his home and office raided as though he were Al Capone. The FBI never raided Cheryl Mills's house, office, and hotel room when Hillary Clinton compromised our national security, but it raid Michael Cohen's because there might be an illegal campaign contribution? Never mind the $145 million that poured into the Clinton Foundation as Hillary shepherded 20 percent of our uranium supply into Russian hands.
According to the Daily Caller, Robert Mueller is interested in a $150,000 donation made to a Trump charity in 2015 by a Ukrainian businessman:
The donation, from steel magnate Victor Pinchuk, pales in comparison to contributions he gave to the charity Bill and Hillary Clinton set up. The billionaire has contributed $13 million to the Clinton Foundation since 2006 and had access to Hillary Clinton while she served as secretary of state.
But Special Counsel Robert Mueller is not investigating The Clintons. Instead, he is conducting a broad investigation of Donald Trump, including the flow of foreign money into various Trump-controlled entities.
Mueller began investigating the Pinchuk donation after receiving documents in response to a subpoena issued to the Trump Organization – the real estate company Trump ran before entering politics.
In September 2015, Trump appeared via video link at a conference Pinchuk hosted in Kiev. Trump's personal attorney, Michael Cohen, negotiated details of the event with Douglas Schoen, a former consultant for Bill Clinton, according to The New York Times. Trump did not initially request payment for the appearance, but Cohen contacted Schoen at one point to request a $150,000 honorarium, The Times reported.
Yet there are no raids of the offices of the Clinton Foundation. Mueller is not interested in justice or in fighting Russian meddling in our elections. He is on a mission to get Donald Trump, the truth and the evidence be damned.
We may be thankful to Alan Dershowitz, Felix Frankfurter professor of law emeritus at Harvard Law School, for reminding us of the delicious irony of an investigation that began with "reports" of collusion with the Russians by Team Trump and charges of Russian hacking of our elections, now reverting to the tactics of Russia's most murderous tyrant, Josef Stalin. As Dershowitz writes in the Washington Examiner:
Special counsel Robert Mueller was commissioned to investigate not only crime but the entire Russian "matter." That is an ominous development that endangers the civil liberties of all Americans.
Federal prosecutors generally begin by identifying specific crimes that may have been committed – in this case, violation of federal statutes. But no one has yet identified the specific statute or statutes that constrain Mueller's investigation of the Russian matter. It is not a violation of any federal law for a campaign to have collaborated with a foreign government to help elect their candidate[.] ...
One does not have to go back to the Soviet Union and Lavrentiy Beria's infamous boast to Stalin, "Show me the man and I will show you the crime," in order to be concerned about the expansion of elastic criminal statutes. There are enough examples of abuse in our own history.
From McCarthyism to the failed prosecutions of Sen. Ted Stevens, Rep. Thomas DeLay, Gov. Rick Perry and others, we have seen vague criminal statutes stretched in an effort to criminalize political differences.
Yes, Virginia, this is a witch hunt. Robert Mueller III was appointed special counsel after his friend, the vindictive James Comey, committed a federal crime by leaking a memo, which was a government record, to the press. Mueller has picked staff and prosecutors as if he were stocking Hillary Clinton's Department of Justice. He has picked a bevy of Clinton donors, an attorney who worked for the Clinton Foundation, a former Watergate assistant prosecutor, and even a senior adviser to Eric Holder. Objective professionals all.
Mueller is in fact colluding with Comey and the rest of the Deep State to enact revenge on President Trump for his victory and Comey's firing, something even Comey said Trump was constitutionally entitled to do. There is no evidence of collusion with Russia or obstruction of justice. It is not obstruction of justice for a president to exercise his legal and constitutional authority.
The facts and the lack of an actual crime will not stop Robert Mueller. Just show him the man, or woman, and he will show you the crime, whether it be Michael Flynn, Paul Manafort, or now Michael Cohen. As with the pre-investigation exoneration of Hillary Clinton by Comey, the facts don't matter. Neither does, apparently, attorney-client privilege. Sentence first, trial later. These individuals are merely collateral damage in Mueller's vendetta against Trump.
This latest move by Mueller is to bait Trump into firing him because he has NOTHING related to the Russians. He gets fired he gets a pass and that would be his out. He is in for surprise because Trump will NOT fire him and leave him off the hook. Mueller is a Comey confidant scumbag. In the end Trump will still be standing there and Muelller will be standing with his d..k in his hand. Rosenstein that deep state creep is going to take this hit and I can't wait when he goes.
My sense is that none of us (nor most of the talking heads on TV) have a clue. Everyone is taking a guess, but no one really knows. The only clear things are that it's pretty rigorous requirements to attain a search warrant of an attorney's office, and that this was something handed from Mueller to others as a different investigation. That's about it for what we know for sure.
I do agree though, if political parties could agree to work together, even when they have differences, we'd all be better off. I felt that way when the R's speaker noted they would block everything President Obama did, and again this go round when the D's have done much of the same. Both sides need to stop thinking about politics as sport and start thinking about the fact that they are on the same team (America) and simply bringing different ideologies to the table. It's not a zero sum game.
Good post , Will.
I have a slightly different philosophy. I'm a fan of political stagnation. My theory is the less they change, the less they f**k up.
I do agree with you, none of the keyboard attorneys, here, have a clue what Mueller has uncovered. All we know is what he wants us to know, so far.
Spike Bull 's Link
"The only clear things are that it's pretty rigorous requirements to attain a search warrant of an attorney's office"
Yeah, it's supposed to be pretty rigorous to get a FISA warrant too but we saw how easy it was for the Hillary campaign to buy one to smear Trump. You're naive if you trust the FBI and DOJ to be apolitical. This is another witch hunt by people upset that Hillary lost.
Yes, however, there is SO much sneaking out to us that I believe the piper WILL get paid this time!
Related: "Former special counsel to President Bill Clinton Lanny Davis revealed Wednesday he has provided documents to Department of Justice investigators demonstrating the investigation into Hillary Clinton's emails "was botched," and predicted the much-anticipated Inspector General's report on the FBI's handling of the email scandal will be intensely critical of (Comey.)"
Mueller could have easily uncovered something and is keeping it under lid. He could easily be saving it waiting for votes.
That rigorous process gets easier if they shop for the judge they want
This "investigation" only serves to prop up the leftist media and their sheep and provide for a platform to attack Trump. They want this to lag on. A quick way for the president to end it is to pardon Cohen. Oh the left would bleed snot and it would be fun to watch. The left is desperate for any distraction to draw attention away from the good Trump is doing for this country and his 50% approval rating.
The CBO now admits the Trump tax cuts are a positive, just another great Trump move that has to be covered up.
As I said before,
No president has had a more combative presidency than President Trump other than maybe Jackson and Lincoln. Trump ran on fighting the establishment and what we are seeing in terms of both Republicans and Democrats AND agencies such as the FBI among others is the establishment fighting back. They are trying to save the status quo, save their little private power stroke. We should all say, thank you President Trump!
I will also say this is a flawed man, like many of our presidents. Like many of us. By what he is doing as president we have the makings of a great president, and THAT is what we elected him to be. You don't have to like the man, but we certainly LOVE the results so far!
Grey Ghost's Link
No, the CBO did not say that. The CBO said that economic growth will be stronger and revised their deficit figures down, but the cumulative deficit will rise and the economic growth is not going to offset reduced government revenue and forecasted spending increases. The CBO also doesn't say if something is "good" or "bad"...they merely project what the effects are.
"Deficits Are Projected to Be Larger Than CBO Previously Estimated The deficit that CBO now estimates for 2018 is $242 billion larger than the one that it projected for that year in June 2017. Accounting for most of that difference is a $194 billion reduction in projected revenues, mainly because the 2017 tax act is expected to reduce collections of individual and corporate income taxes.
For the 2018–2027 period, CBO now projects a cumulative deficit that is $1.6 trillion larger than the $10.1 trillion that the agency anticipated in June. Projected revenues are lower by $1.0 trillion, and projected outlays are higher by $0.5 trillion.
Laws enacted since June 2017—above all, the three mentioned above—are estimated to make deficits $2.7 trillion larger than previously projected between 2018 and 2027, an effect that results from reducing revenues by $1.7 trillion (or 4 percent) and increasing outlays by $1.0 trillion (or 2 percent). The reduction in projected revenues stems primarily from the lower individual income tax rates that the tax act has put in place for much of the period. Projected outlays are higher mostly because the other two pieces of legislation will increase discretionary spending. Those revenue reductions and spending increases would result in larger deficits and thus in higher interest costs than CBO previously projected.
In contrast, revisions to CBO’s economic projections caused the agency to reduce its estimate of the cumulative deficit by $1.0 trillion. Expectations of faster growth in the economy and in wages and corporate profits led to an increase of $1.1 trillion in projected tax receipts from all sources. Other changes had relatively small net effects on the projections."
".....and his 50% approval rating."
It's amusing to me how Trump and his supporters point to ONE right-leaning poll to proclaim he has a 50% approval rating, when every other poll shows a much lower rating.
"The Congressional Budget Office is now admitting that President Trump's tax cuts will pay for themselves and more, although we will never read that in most of the press."
This, is a positive. Exactly what others were reporting earlier, but not the CBO. Now they are.
"The CBO says the economy will grow 3.3% this year, the most since 2005.
Revenues over 10 years are estimated at $44.1 trillion, which is about $1 trillion more than the CBO's estimate before the tax cuts."
Liberals hate tax cuts. Rasmussen was quite accurate compared to many others concerning recent elections. In reality, most polls have been proven to be worthless. Ask Hilda for confirmation.
Grey Ghost's Link
We have liberal law professors and attorneys condemning the act, and not just Dershowitz. An immediate lawsuit needs to be filed. Cohen pardoned. 2nd special SC appointed. The ACLU applauding the move once again tells us how rancid that organization is.
"The FBI raid on Trump personal attorney Michael Cohen's office has sparked a parade of controversy. On the one hand, proponents of the action argue that the FBI would not have raided Cohen's office without serious evidence; opponents say the raid violates attorney-client privilege and sets a dangerous precedent.
Harvard lawyer Alan Dershowitz agreed with President Trump that the raid violated attorney-client privilege and called on the ACLU to defend the president."
Storm troopers addressing jaywalking is what we have here, but it sure has built the stage the leftists want. President Trump, if done correctly, can use this overreach to great advantage.
"Rasmussen was quite accurate compared to many others concerning recent elections."
In a recent analysis of poll accuracy, Rasmussen got a C+ rating and showed a consistent 2 point republican bias.
Compared to others who showed what, perhaps a 15 point Soros-Democrat bias?
It's all spelled out in the link I provided, Spike. Out of 657 polls analyzed, Rasmussen was only slightly better than average in accuracy.
Interestingly, many of the University sponsored polls have been the most accurate.
The most important polls are for the presidential election, not just any election. There was an outright bias in the polling for Trump. Many of the news outlets polled 10-15% more democrats than Republicans. They explained that was because more democrats would vote? The day of the presidential election Hillary was given a 90%+ chance of winning. How did that work out.
It's all spelled out right here. Few were more accurate than Rasmussen in the presidential election which was the one I was focused on since the discussion is ablut Trump.
". The study ranked 14 organizations but, unlike 2012, chose to omit the results of Rasmussen Reports.An American Research Group study based on the method of Martin, Traugott, and Kennedy, found that Rasmussen Reports had the highest accuracy among 25 pollsters in the 2016 election."
And a 50% approval ranking now. One has to chuckle when liberals wet their panties over this.
I don't think the left has to do anything to draw negative attention to Trump. Trump does a pretty good job of drawing negative attention to himself. I don't get that opinion from your so called "leftist" news orgs. I get that from the words coming out of Trumps mouth and through his fingers. If the guy would just stop talking or stop tweeting he would be better off. He is his own worst enemy and what is worse the emperor has no clothes.
"Interestingly, many of the University sponsored polls have been the most accurate".
Liberal Institutions breed liberal stats.
From your link Matt, they had Hillary Clinton at 71 percent in the 2016 General Election, and Trump at 28 percent. Not sure if I trust your source with that Margin of error.
He's doing exactly what he promised. That's more than I can say about any other President in my lifetime.
Depends on where they do the polling too. For example, Trump had a 56% approval rating in Tennessee right now. He does best in Southern States.
The link I provided analyzed hundreds of polls for each pollster. Rasmussen was average. Yes, they were closer than most in the 2016 election, but one election does not make a track record.
Look, cherry pick and choose to beleive whatever poll that shows your preferred results, if you want to. I'll base my opinion on all the available data, which shows Trump at slightly over a 42% approval.
And why is a 50% rating worthy of boasting about anyway? The last I checked, that means half of the country disapprove of Trump.
Anywho, sorry for the derail. We can get back to talking about our POTUS banging whores.
GG, now that is some funny !#@$ right there.
I am very disappointed that we went from a Stormy/Trump sex scandal to a Cohen/Trump campaign finance violation.
Would that be JFK, or H or Slick Willy or Trump? Or what OBOZO has been rumored to be banging? Or one of the others?
The last presidential election showed us how little value polls have. Sometimes even right up to election day itself.
"The last presidential election showed us how little value polls have. Sometimes even right up to election day itself."
Thank you. So why use one to support your point?
Because I myself grant it little credence doesn't mean the enemy doesn't. Matter of fact it drives the left nuts. It is the purest form of entertainment, watching liberals panic in desperation.
"I'll base my opinion on all the available data, which shows Trump at slightly over a 42% approval".
42 percent of the vote would be a landslide win in 2020. Can't wait :^D
I personally thought Cohen would be found guilt of a campaign donation crime. Maybe not.
Law professor and former FEC chairman Bradley Smith has this to say.
" The FEC standard for that is you can’t use your campaign money for personal use. What they mean by that is you can’t use that for something you’d have to pay anyway that’s not directly for your campaign. The question is, ‘is this really a campaign obligation?’”
Professor Smith continued, “None of these expenditures helped Mr. Trump’s campaign. There’s all kinds of reasons why he may want to make these expenditures even if the allegations made by Stormy Daniels are untrue. Just for family harmony, commercial viability over the long term.”
He emphasized, “Historically, the FEC has said these things are not campaign contributions.”
Professor Smith added, “When the FEC wrote the regulation that says what constitutes campaign expenditures and what constitutes personal use, it rejected specifically the idea that a campaign expenditure was anything related to a campaign, and instead says it has to be something that exists only because of the campaign and solely for that reason.”
This is a dramatic overreach by Storm Troopers. Again, if played correctly this could work swimmingly in President Trump's favor.
Odd that the Judge who ruled against Trump and Cohen officiated Soros' wedding though.
Raiding a law office is a huge problem here. We have stuff in our files that is kept secret for good reason. You don't want what I know to get out in the public arena.
Attorney-client privilege is a cornerstone of a free society. Of course, the armchair attorneys here are saying "no big deal."
Reverse it. If they raided Obama's attorney, the same people would be pissing themselves over it.
BK, why are you leaving out the most important part? Attorney-client privilege is null and void if the attorney is helping to create, or further a crime. You also left out the purpose of the taint team. The attorneys that sift through the information to determine what is actually protected by attorney-client privilege. We all know you are the resident attorney on the site but giving only a small snapshot of the situation isn’t helpful to those that don’t know the big picture.
your fav IMposter. YOU can't get the big picture. I got the rope ready. 8^)))
There is no point to responding substantively to the habitually dishonest.
Translation: “He is correct and I have response”. Fixed it for you Counselor.
"Attorney-client privilege is a cornerstone of a free society."
Bingo. And it makes me ill that some here are just fine with giving that away, including the OP, who claims to be a Libertarian. What on earth are people thinking?
bk, does that attorney-client privilege extend to acts of crime and fraud being conducted by an attorney on behalf of a client or in-conjunction with a client? What are your thoughts on the crime-fraud exception to attorney-client privilege?
I would like to understand your perspective and experience on this. Every one I've listened to in the legal field (both in the media and with whom I've discussed personally) takes client-attorney privilege very seriously, as they should. They've expressed the fact that there is a process in place to protect this privilege. Nobody has suggested that the process is broken or that it wasn't followed in this case.
Curious if your experience is different - that either the process is broken (ie, even though people say the bar is very high with respect to gaining approval to conduct a raid of an attorney's office given the concerns over attorney-client privilege, your experience tells you that it isn't) or that the process wasn't followed.
A legit crime has to be followed, no matter where it goes. Not so much if only a fishing expedition on the S.S. Collusion leaving from the port of Fake Dossier, DC. Not sure where exactly this Cohen stuff falls. But the Soros wedding judge is a VERY bad sign!!
If Cohen is dirty, there must be some way to go after him without someone eyeballing every private communication with every client that might be in his files and computer. And in this age of rampant leaks, where even the FBI Director himself is leaking to push a partisan/personal agenda... it's hard to believe the 'taint team' (such a ridiculous name, Ha!) is going to protect the President's personal files.
your fav IMposter. Another DUMBA$$ reply from you, i see. Another LIE from the wuss. 8^)
Let's do the math. The FBI alleges crime-fraud privilege so it seizes attorney records. The FBI then has their own employees examine the confidential information to determine what it should keep. No matter what you read in the papers, even if there was a crime, it's probable that 98-99% of what was taken had nothing to do with any criminal acts.
This would be the same FBI who no.1 and no. 2 people were leaking stuff to the press.
Attorney client privilege even survives the death of the client.
It should not be difficult to see a problem here.
And actual translation: "Zeidan is so dishonest that it is impossible to have an adult conversation with he/she/it so I'll not waste time trying to educate the intellectually bankrupt. "
“The FBI then has their own employees examine the confidential information to determine what it should keep.“
Then what is the role of the privilege team? Thought they were there to review the seized material and basically scrub information that is privileged and unrelated to the crime in question before anyone associated with the investigation looks at it. Help me understand what they’re doing?
Let me 'splain it to you, Lucy.
The guys with the striped shirts and whistles are employees of the New England Patriots.
Does that make it clear?
I was gonna say you don’t have to be a dick when you answer a simple question, but I know that’s hard for someone who is, well...you can do the math.
It makes sense now. Just like the conspiracy theorists and the skeptics of the world think that the referees are actually employees of the Patriots and tip the scales in their favor when in fact they are not employees of the Patriots and do call games in a neutral manner, some people think that attorneys and agents that are independent of the investigation will act on behalf of their “colleagues” instead of the neutral party they are put in place to be. I guess in this case the federal judge that will ultimately make the ruling at to whether an item is privileged also plays for the Patriots?
the Dems/left couldnt get Trump on the collusion crap(because there wasnt there there), they cant get him with the stupid Stormy crap, so now they have moved on to this crap ... esp. when the REAL crimes have been committed by the Dems in the Obama administration/DOJ/FBI .....
There is no reason a federal judge should be in possession of this attorney/client privileged information. You would think a Libertarian would care about civil liberties. Apparently this is too complex of a theory for some to comprehend.
You have an MBA. I must conclude that you are voluntarily obtuse, or arguing just to argue. Both are crap. Own it.
To Pig Doc's point, I'd rather a federal judge, as in a special master who would have nothing else to do with the case, make the call than FBI employees. The FBI has been rotten to the top, see Comey, James and McCabe, Andrew for very recent examples. Consider also that at the law office where I work there are thousands of files. So, the FBI would be looking at thousands of files to find the one where they hope to find evidence of illicit activity. Likewise at Cohen's office, he may have a limited number of current clients. Nobody yet has any idea how many old clients he has, or other deals that he's done for the current list that have nothing to do with any possible criminal activity. The feds have those files, too.
And I would think any reasonable person, be they Republican, Libertarian, or Democrat, would recognize that lawyers should not not be shielded from the law by attorney-client privilege. Boggles my mind that you PD don’t seem to give a flying you know what about attorneys breaking the law on behalf of or in conjunction with their clients. We might like to see less in the way of law and regulation, but us Libertarians still respect it.
I’d have no problem with a special master in this case. That said, a federal judge did make the call to approve the search warrant fully aware of the implications surrounding attorney-client privilege. A federal judge will make the call as to what information is ultimately privileged and what is not. Guess time will tell if the taint team is tainted and the FBI uses any of that privileged info to further this case or another case. Given the sensitivity around these issues I’d like to think that most people would act in accordance with the ethics, neutrality, and seriousness the situation calls for both in deference to attorney-client privilege and to avoid jeopardizing any future legal action.
You presume Cohen has broken the law. Please remember a federal judge also approved the FISA warrant that has been the subject of much review for being based on the Steele dossier.
Yes, a federal judge will make the call....after the FBI has looked over every document they seized.
You have no reason to believe that anyone will behave with integrity, both as an alleged libertarian, and also, as someone who has read the news over the past year and a half. Some people even come onto message boards and argue crap they don't believe in.
“You have no reason to believe that anyone will act with integrity”.
Then why have law enforcement agencies? Hell, let’s completely destroy all American institutions because a narcissist conman says he’s being treated unfairly. Sorry but I’m not buying the whole “the fbi has gone rogue” line of crap. It’s clear you guys have. But hey aren’t conservatives the party of let’s respect the men in blue”? You can’t have it both ways.
Bottom line: If Cohen was helping his clients commit or hide crimes, then client/atty privilege does not exist. The ABA is quite clear about this.
your fav IMposter. There is a Playboy model saying she had an alleged affair with Trump. You can ride this one for a while, while you are crying us a river. PRICELESS!!! 8^)))
The disingenuous and dense are not worth the effort.
"Boggles my mind that you PD don’t seem to give a flying you know what about attorneys breaking the law on behalf of or in conjunction with their clients."
I never suggested that. If attorneys broke the law they should be prosecuted. But that's not the issue. The issue is how the raid was carried out and constitutional rights were violated. Anyone that gives a rats ass about civil liberties should be appalled. You however think it's just fine to trample people's rights. You're a joke.
"I never suggested that"
You sure did. "There is no reason a federal judge should be in possession of this attorney/client privileged information." I see the high likelihood of criminal activity being a reason this would be the case. Unless I don't understand what you mean by "no reason."
"it makes me ill that some here are just fine with giving that away." I've maintained the entire time that in the event of crime and fraud, I'm comfortable with the law saying you've sacrificed that right but that there should be a very high bar in place to preserve attorney-client privilege in these cases, which I believe exists. You apparently are not comfortable with where the bar is set and seem to maintain that there is "no reason" attorney-client privilege should ever be compromised.
"The issue is how the raid was carried out and constitutional rights were violated"
This whole time you've been talking about attorney-client privilege, which is not a constitutional right. So please tell me which constitutional rights were violated? As the Libertarian Platform advocates, we support protection from unreasonable search and seizure. Tell me what about this search and seizure was unreasonable?
" >If< Cohen was helping his clients commit or hide crimes, then client/atty privilege does not exist. >If< pigs could fly, you would have landed on your head at birth.
So far as we have been told Cohen was cooperating with the authorities. Raids on private papers and property is usually reserved for those not cooperating. Generally speaking, when an American citizen cooperates with authorities they are not subject to KGB tactics of early morning raids...Like I said before, the FBI better have their ducks in a row. If this turns out to be nothing more than Cohen using his home equity loan to pay off the hooker then it will look very bad for the FBI...JMO
Cohen using a home equity loan to pay people off IS A CRIME. Lying on a mortgage application is a federal crime. And we don’t know if Cohen was cooperating w the fbi investigation. Further, if there’s suspicion he may destroy evidence, then a raid is absolutely justified. Hell, it’s necessary!
Paul Zeidan, the stereotypical blind and dumb sheep liberal. What we have here is storm troopers raiding a private citizen over jaywalking. Of course blind dumb sheep liberals applaud it. The few fair and smart liberals like Alan Dershowitz are outraged by it. Let the lawsuits begin. Let the gutting of the FBI begin. Can't wait to watch crybaby Comey get flushed down the toilet.
So I have a home equity line of credit. All the bank did is gave me a pack of checks to write. No one ever ask what I was going to do with the money. I could write a check to someone and the bank wouldn't say a word as far as I know. How is this situation any different am I missing something?
""As aggressive as Mueller can be about pursuing the wrong man, he showed surprising leniency and laxity when it came to the case of Samuel “Sandy” Berger, a Clinton White House national security adviser. In the run-up to testifying before the 9/11 Commission that sought to examine the failures that led to those terrorist attacks, Berger visited the National Archives to review classified documents with his notes on them.
But instead he intentionally removed and destroyed multiple copies of a classified document the commission should have reviewed for national security purposes, and lied to investigators about it. He was found to have stuffed the documents in his socks and otherwise hidden them.""
.......ho hum, just another day in the life of Robert Mueller........
"He was found to have stuffed the documents in his socks and otherwise hidden them."
I seem to remember us talking about him here then, in his underwear too. Totally forgot....
Thunderflight 's Link
your fav IMposter. Funny you won't say a thing about hillary DESTROYING evidence??? Everyone knows she did, and she still walks. But, the ball is rolling, now. 8^)))
This is a worthy debate for sure. It seems clear that what was done is perfectly fine from a legal perspective - the right steps were taken. Is there anything worth finding? Is it all smoke and mirrors? None of us know - other than what the talking heads tell us...
It's wait and see for me at this point.
TFlight, ya beat me to it...... this sure will make some of the resident libs cry in their baby food ...http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/04/19/rosenstein-tells-trump-is-not-target-cohen-investigation.html