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On this day: "...4 dead in Ohio..."
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Contributors to this thread:
Spike Bull 05-May-18
Thumper 09-May-18
Spike Bull 09-May-18
Mint 09-May-18
Spike Bull 09-May-18
Squash 09-May-18
MT in MO 09-May-18
JTV 09-May-18
MK111 09-May-18
canepole 09-May-18
Spike Bull 09-May-18
Squash 09-May-18
canepole 09-May-18
Spike Bull 10-May-18
K Cummings 10-May-18
Spike Bull 10-May-18
MT in MO 10-May-18
K Cummings 10-May-18
05-May-18

Spike Bull 's Link
Just a little look back.

“Kent State remains a glaring example of government impunity, it sends a message that protestors can be killed by the state for expressing their political beliefs. This lack of accountability and hostility towards peaceful expression flies in the face not only of our Constitution, but also our international human rights commitments.”

Own guns, spare parts, and BMB.

From: Thumper
09-May-18
After the Cold War ended wasn't it found that Russia funded and organized this Vietnam war protest just like it did all across the country.

Films I watched the protesters were throwing rocks, bottles, bricks and setting fires, and looting. Not exactly a real peaceful non-violent protest as portrayed by the left.

"The most well known protest involving the Vietnam War occurred at Kent State University in Ohio in May 1970. Kent State students held an anti-war protest. That evening several incidents occurred, including rocks and bottles being thrown at police officers and the lighting of bonfires. Students, other anti-war activists, and common criminals began to break windows and loot. "

"The Soviet Union wisely spent more money on funding of U.S. anti-war movements during the Vietnam War than on funding and arming the VietCong forces.--- Stanislav Lunev, highest ranking GRU officer to defect from the USSR"

09-May-18
All of that may be true, Thumper, I have no way of knowing the details, that I fully trust. My point was that we should remember that sometimes the scat hits the fan.

Imagine how they will treat us after they have taken away all our firearms and we have no recourse other than rocks and bottles?

We will be just like those protesting the rigged elections in Russia, or Iran, or Venezuela.....

From: Mint
09-May-18
So if Antifa throws rocks and runs toward National Guard Troops they shouldn't protect themselves? You don't want to be shot then don't burn down buildings, don't throw rocks and bottles and don't charged toward armed Guardsman. I'm all for peaceful protests like the Tea Party.

09-May-18
Point taken.

From: Squash
09-May-18
Don’t know how Anyone would try to justify what the National Guard did on that fateful day at Kent State ? They could have dispersed the protesters without live ammo. The British Troops did the same thing in Boston, the Boston Massacre. I guess some here would think British Troops were protecting themselves ?

From: MT in MO
09-May-18

MT in MO's Link
" I guess some here would think British Troops were protecting themselves ?"

If I remember my history correctly that is exactly what John Adams argued in their defense...and the redcoats were found not guilty of murder...by a jury of continentals...

Link has more details, but I didn't have time to read it all...

From: JTV
09-May-18
^^ this is very true .. I would have no problem dumping some antifa dolts with double taps if they would attack ....

From: MK111
09-May-18
One of my class mates was there as a National Guardsmen under attack. His story is so different from the News reports and latter day history buffs who didn't live at that time in history.

Know something true about the facts before passing judgement.

From: canepole
09-May-18
“Kent State remains a glaring example of government impunity, it sends a message that protesters can be killed by the state for expressing their political beliefs. This lack of accountability and hostility towards peaceful expression flies in the face not only of our Constitution, but also our international human rights commitments.”

Hey Spike, if burning down ROTC buildings, throwing bricks, rocks, and bottles at firefighters and Natl Guardsmen is what you consider "peaceful expression" you're as nutty as Big Bear says you are!

Squash, nice to here you're still not only anti law enforcement but anti servicemen. The troops were ordered to fire after a shot, fire cracker, ect went off. This was while ROTC building was still smoldering! Guess you think the guardsmen should just wade into a mass protest and maybe wrestle the protesters to ground and no one would get hurt?

Just like MK111 says... "Know something true about the facts before passing judgement".

09-May-18
Chill, canepole! Those are not MY words in that quote! This is not personal so dont make it so!

Maybe you have seen this quote:

"If they treat the citizens that badly while we are armed to the teeth imagine how they will treat us once we are disarmed."

From: Squash
09-May-18
Canepole, I can take the criticism about law enforcement , but I resent your false notion about servicemen. Yes , you should, “ know something true about the facts before passing judgement,” on me. I had 2 ancestral grandfathers that fought in the American Revolution, who helped give us the right to have this civil discussion, also an ancestral Uncle who fought at Getteysburg, a Great Uncle killed in France in WWI, and my father made 7 amphibious landings earning 5 battle stars in the South Pacific and his brother, my uncle who flew two 25 mission bombing tours in the army aircorp in Europe in WWII. So I am not anti-servicemen, but even though I don’t know all the facts, I am still against Guardsmen firing live ammo into protesters even though they may through bottles and stones , in the USA.

From: canepole
09-May-18
Squash, it sounds like you've came from a family patriots and hero's. I sincerely apologize if I've in any way offended you concerning them or their memory. I too, can boast of a number of proud service members from my own family.

What lead up to the Kent Shootings was four days of civil unrest. There had been unrest in the months leading up to this. The governor declared a state of emergency after the first day when the local authorities had lost control and the Natl Guard was activated. Beside some of the local businesses and parts of the campus being vandalized the ROTC building was set on fire. Firefighters and police had rocks and bricks thrown at them. Two days later, there were 77 guardsmen attempting to disperse an estimated crowd of 2,000 with tear gas. Sometime during all this, the guard thought they were being fired upon. The order was give to shoot but even then only a small portion of the men fired their weapons. This was very unfortunate. I feel once the protest became violent and those participants choose to stay, after being ask numerous times to disperse THEY were responsible for the outcome.

Instead of me making a smart ass comment, I'll just ask what course of action you would've taken in that setting?

10-May-18
I think I will build a new AR. And you?

10-May-18
the fault is not with the individual guardsmen.....their commanding officer(s) were at fault. I feel the local politicians and the university administration bear equal responsibility.

You own every action as well as the consequence of every action that takes place within and under your command...those that do not understand that ownership are unfit. Blaming the individual guardsmen is like blaming their rifles.

I do despise the protestors though I defend their right to protest.

From: K Cummings
10-May-18
Violence begets violence.

The deaths and injuries can be laid directly at the feet of the lawless protesters. Sadly, two of the dead had nothing whatsoever to do with the protest, they were just walking to class.

KPC

10-May-18
Lawless protesters, any kind of lawless people, deserve justice, however, when others, innocents, get killed because they are in the wrong place at the wrong time what is that?

From: MT in MO
10-May-18
Bad luck...

From: K Cummings
10-May-18
"Bad luck..."

I understand what you are saying but I guess it depends on how you look at it. Had the students not been engaged in an unlawful protest, the national guard would have never been called and nobody would have ever been killed. Those people are dead as a direct result of a conscious decision made by the student "protesters" (aka criminals) to engage in criminal activity.

KPC

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