Contributors to this thread:
Spike Bull 's Link
"After witnessing the union of the Democratic Party and former spy chiefs James Clapper, James Comey and John Brennan, I slowly realized my trust in the federal government had been naive. Of course, I’d never advocate an armed rebellion, but the fact 37 percent of American families own some type of firearm ensures that unelected officials think twice about the extent of their schemes.
If intelligence chiefs like Brennan and Clapper can lie under oath without perjury charges, or James Comey can overlook Clinton’s private server (storing SAP intelligence) because of “intent,” imagine the extent of their chicanery with a disarmed population.
The Second Amendment isn’t necessarily a call to arms — it’s an inconvenient reality for unelected officials who continually act with impunity and without government oversight.
As for mass shootings, the propaganda of the Left will not save lives.
Dianne Feinstein admitted that no legislation could have prevented the Vegas shooting. The FBI botched the Charleston massacre and according to The New York Times, “Dylann Roof, 21, was allowed to buy the .45-caliber handgun because of mistakes by F.B.I. agents.” The FBI knew about the recent Florida shooter before he killed 17 people. The FBI also knew about the Orlando Pulse shooter years before he murdered 49 human beings. As for the Virginia Tech shooter who killed 32 people, he roamed the university for 15 minutes using a .22 and a 9 millimeter; two smaller caliber handguns that have never been the targets of a ban by liberals.
I joined the NRA and Gun Owners of America because the groupthink that I once spewed hurts law-abiding citizens and does nothing to prevent the next deranged copycat criminal. I now have a firearms channel on YouTube promoting the Second Amendment safely and responsibly; something I never imagined in 2014."
I recently re-watched the movie "Schindler's List", because I've been on a WWII kick recently. Any one who thinks a citizenry should be disarmed should watch the scenes of the liquidation of the ghetto in that movie.
Hitler actually gave us about 10 million reasons to never disarm a populace
The ultimate goal of the democrats is to disarm and to do away with the 2A ... saying that isnt true is disingenuous and shows the ignorance of those who dont see it.. ....
Bake, I too just re-watched Schindler's List, and I agree with the premise of your statement, but I think anyone who thinks because he has a few guns in his closet and a couple thousand rounds of ammo is severely over-confident. IF/when the government comes for you you'll be of no match. Times have changed and it wouldn't even be a fair fight. But, that's not to say you couldn't feel proud for having gone done without a fight. Sorry, but all the AR's in the world are no match for the governments weaponry.
Along those same lines, IF/when that day ever comes, of those armed citizens, 1/4 will freeze with fear, another 1/4 will let apathy rule the day and surrender, and the rest will be dead within the hour...and that's just the half that are armed...the liberals will all be dead already. I never want to see the 2nd Amendment go away, but if you think that's gonna be your saving grace I think you better start coming up with a plan B.
I sort of agree South Farm. But I think the mujahideen, Vietcong, etc. might disagree a little on your premise. . . . The government weaponry may win out in the end, but an armed guerilla force could make it tough.
I also agree that a large portion of those 10 million would have done nothing. . . but what if 15% had been armed and willing? 1.5 million armed people would not have been easy to subdue. Even 5% of those people could make it tough. How big was Hitler's standing army? 5 million? Certainly less than 10million?
Plan B, My take on it if the government decides to come for US citizens as a whole they will be in the wrong and the military loyalties will fold up like a cheap tent and side with its citizens and their family's.
And. . . I'm no prepper. I have a hunting AR, but I doubt I have more than 100 rds of ammo. I'm not a doomsdayer. . . . I don't think I'll ever have to fight in my lifetime. I'm just saying, that disarming a populace is never a good thing. Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin, Hitler--all disarmed the populace (I believe)
I believe that our warriors are much more tuned in to the armed populace than you think. Remember, an American army would be moving against its own people, not some unnamed foreigners, but their own friends, neighbors, moms and dads, their brother's and sister's families, etc.
I think that many, if not most, would go home and take care of their own.
I would, what would you do? Perhaps some would disable military equipment which might be used against them on their way out.
There are 600,000 hunters in Pennsylvania alone.....
Check participation levels of citizens in the Revolutionary War.....
It won't be an army of civilians against the U.S. military. It would be like banging your head against the wall. It will a piecemeal engagement against unpatriotic american soldiers. Most will disobey unlawful orders (remember "fragging"). Most will desert to be protecting their family and loved ones. It will be interdiction of supplies to the government elites. Tanks and other equipment has to be fueled, soldiers have to rest and eat. That will be the time for pot shooting and snipers (deer hunters) will be on the prowl taking two-legged trophies. Explosives will be used against infrastructures to isolate the battlefields and starve the libtards. Conservative patriots mostly live in flyover middle America where food are grown. Hunters that are reloaders will have ample supply of powder and primers; so too for the brass. It will be bloody but it won't be huge set piece battlelines.
The number of people who have firearm deer licences in Wisconsin alone is a number equal to the 5th largest standing army in the world. And that's not counting Michigan, Pennsylvania, Ohio, New York, etc. Think about that for a moment!
The effectiveness of guerrilla warfare is proven. I'll take my chances with millions motivated irregulars over 3x conscripted welfare drones. Heck, with our gun ownership numbers, even 3% may be too large a number to qualify as "guerrilla warfare."
Yes. 3% of 320,000,000 million people is 9,600,000. Conservatively estimated, there are approximately 100,000,000 gun owners holding about 24 trillion rounds of ammo. 3% of them is still 3,000,000 well armed people.
Either way, we are being led around by the rings in our noses by way less than 3% of our population! And we are paying them to do that!
Some guy in a room, in a different state, pushes a button and BOOM, there goes your perceived ability to defend yourselves from Big Brother. I'm not against gun ownership, own quite a few, but at the same time I'm a realist and I don't own guns to protect myself from the government, because quite honestly it ain't even close to a fair fight. I own guns to (kill animals for consumption mainly), and protect my family and property from the thieving low-life meth-head down the street. Any of you ever see the scene in Harlem Nights where they're having a shoot-out with the cops? Everybody's flinging lead with their tommy guns and the one little dude stands up and shoots his little .38 pop! pop! whenever there's a break in the action like he's making a difference....that's what small arms fire is like compared to a tank, drone, missle....might give you warm fuzzies but in the end you don't stand a chance. The good news is with Trump in office it will never come to that.
You are correct to a certain extent, SF. Except we would not be fighting the "government" but other American citizens, a relatively small number at that, whose concerns may be just like yours and mine but their opinion and abilities will run the spectrum. They are not monolithic. Even the US government doesn't have enough smart bombs and missiles to the 3% scattered across the nation.
Personally, I would not be making functional replacements, were that my job, for "the government" if they were being used against my nation.
There are a lot of defeatists who have been "properly" indoctrinated to believe that the government is all powerful when in fact it depends entirely on citizens just like you and I for EVERYTHING.
"....because quite honestly it ain't even close to a fair fight."
Bravo Sierra. Tanks, drones, jets..... All require one thing. Boots on the ground. Tanks may be able to "take" a position, but it requires bodies to hold it. Same with jets.
Never seen so many, so willing, to lick the boot pressed upon their throat. And convince others to do so.
The idiots among us still chant, "Guns are bad" just not enough intellect there to see the forest through the trees.
We had a case here recently, at Cal high in San Ramon.....a columbine groupie. The kids 'manifesto' was to be a copycat Columbine shooter- at link. The fact that these liberal idiots want all focus to be on 'guns' and do nothing to address the mental health issues and the real causes of this violence is ridiculous.
What they don't tell you in the news story [we know kids at the school] they arrested the kid, had to let him go for civil rights reasons....but then further investigation found his 'manifesto' and they arrested him again.
Heck, the dumbazz libs around here call for more gun laws...and they don't know that we have some of the toughest gun laws anywhere.
I do not see it ever coming to a gov vs gun owners battle, but if it did, I see the following issues for the gov:
- half or more of the military/police would side with the gun owners; or at least would not fight the gun owners. Many ex military/police would side with the gun owners also. Lots of training/experience to draw on.
- collateral damage would limit tools the gov can use. It would take a huge intel effort just to determine who the target gun owners are and where they exist. Then they would need be able to eliminate them w/o killing others or doing too much infrastructure damage. Unless the gov went completely off the rails, they would still concern themselves with public opinion.
- the Taliban still exists. Even though they are up against these superior tools. In the US, gun owners would be Taliban 1000x