Was he a coward?
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Story from Parkland resource officer in his own words. After reading it it seems to make more sense now. Thoughts?
He never made an attempt to engage the shooter equals coward.
Knowing where the sound of a shot is, coming from inside a building, has to be easier than pinpointing a bugle. It would seam that it would be easy to tell where the shot was coming from. Easy to Monday morning quarterback though.
The shooter at the Sutherland Springs Tx. Church shooting was shot and killed. The shooter at the Santa Fe, Tx High School shooting was subdued and stopped. This security officer did nothing. It's not up to me to judge, he has to live with his decision.
Although I do believe there is some cover your ass, I have to say, I think it would be hard to tell where shots were coming from, sound bouncing off building walls and such. I know I have been in the “area” of shots fired in the city a couple times, it’s hard to tell where it’s coming from. This is the reason we need teachers armed, unless you have a armed guard in about every hallway, one guard per building is not enough.
I don't know, always been trained to go after the threat...That being said, after years of being around gun fire, you pretty much know where it's coming from...I wasn't in his shoes, so I'm kind of with Sleepy...He's got to live with it!
In a hallway with concrete construction as is common in school buildings, it is hard to tell exactly where the shots originate. Last summer during an active killer training, I ran down one wing of the building while the "shooter" was in another wing. Honestly I moved too fast from the room I came out of down the hall I thought the shots were coming from. It took 3 or 4 more shots for me to realize my mistake, I was checking rooms thinking the muffling of the sounds was due to him being in a room. However, he didn't even try to enter the building they seemed to suspect the shots were coming from. I don't know as he was a coward, but he froze and failed to act as he was supposed to. Whether he could have saved any lives or not by entering the building we will never know, but we know he didn't try.
""We know the outcome but we don't know the facts regarding why.""
What other facts need to be known? There was a shooter inside a building killing people. He was the armed Security officer. He knew shots were being fired.
Possibly not a coward, but certainly not a "hero" .
His unarmed buddy that was gunned down when he ran toward the shooter, may have saved a few kids. There's your hero.
""Are you really asking that?""
It's a legit question. Those are facts deal with it. You're the main armchair QB questioning everyone's opinion. Like I said earlier he has to live with his decision. I'm not a LEO but Big Bear is. I've never served in the Military others here have. I'll favor their opinion on this matter. It's not my place to call a LEO a coward when I'm not a LEO myself. I've never been in combat either the Military people have. I think it's safe to say they would know a coward when they see one.
His excuse is that he could not tell where the shots were coming from, from his position.
But instead of CHANGING HIS POSITION, he stayed in the place where he already admitted he could not determine the origin of the shots.
If it had been me, I think I would have gone somewhere else on campus (perhaps inside the buildings) to see if I could better determine where the shooting was occurring.
He did not. Clearly he just remained in place and "cowered."
Pete
One thing for sure is that this will haunt him for the rest of his life. He probably wants to put a bullet in his head so if he was a coward then he is paying the price now.
""One thing for sure is that this will haunt him for the rest of his life.""
Yes sir. He has a heavy burden to carry the rest of his life.
""I know you don't like hearing this, but that's called critical thinking sleepy, you should try it sometime.""
KPC, If anything you're a critical thinking fail. I also believe it's safe to conclude you should never be a security guard. From reading your posts. I sure you would run at the first sign of trouble. Well maybe not run, more bounce and crawl gasping for breath.
We have about 120 Officers in the Department I work at. We discussed this case as we do with all critical incidents...... Of the Officers I work with.... none of them that I am aware of have an opinion any different than mine regarding this incident....It's just an opinion.... and mine hasn't changed.
Further......... That Officers actions will be discussed at active shooter training nationwide as what not to do in response to an active shooter...... for decades to come......
" I consider all the facts and work toward a conclusion." I went back and reread the article to make sure I remembered something correctly. He KNEW the shots/firecrackers came from the area of the 1200 building. Then the fire alarm in that building started sounding. He went close to the building and staged, i.e., stayed put. I am sure he had enough training to know that was not enough. Inside was the next logical place for him to go since he had (albeit quickly), surveyed the side he was on. If he needed to check the outside of the building opposite where he was, approaching through the building should accomplish that as well as helping to determine if the shooter was inside. He did not work toward a conclusion.
Whether it was because he was a coward, froze up, or was too lazy to look doesn't matter, bottom line is he failed in his mission. It cost him his career, his self respect, the respect of others, and quite possibly the lives of innocent people. He has to live with that. Yes I feel sorry for him, pity him even, but I do not excuse his lack of action.
Solo I’m sure it’s not the same. Locating a shot outside a building with lots of buildings around might be tough too. But determining wether a shot is coming from inside the building you’re standing next to or a neighboring roof top, get real. Plus him and the guy on the golf cart both went that way, I’d say they knew where the shots were coming from.
""I know you don't like hearing this, but that's called critical thinking sleepy, you should try it sometime.""
So typical.
"When Debate is Lost, Slander Becomes Tool of the Loser"
Practice what you preach KPC aka Loser.
Hey pontificating troll,
""We have about 120 Officers in the Department I work at. We discussed this case as we do with all critical incidents...... Of the Officers I work with.... none of them that I am aware of have an opinion any different than mine regarding this incident....It's just an opinion.... and mine hasn't changed. Further......... That Officers actions will be discussed at active shooter training nationwide as what not to do in response to an active shooter...... for decades to come......""
&%#*¥KING COWARD !!!!! There. That more accurately describes how I feel about him.
Not only his actions, but the actions of additional officers arriving on scene contributed...Who knows how many additional lives could have been saved...All second guessing, but it doesn’t look good either way you play it...
Active shooter training forever changed after Columbine......
Active shooter training again will forever change after this incident.... The instructors will again stress to immediately go find the threat. Waiting could cost lives. Instructors nationwide will stress not to do what this Officer did.
Our pontificating troll is here to do one thing.
Kevin,
Big Bear is an actual police officer! In charge of other officers.
The sheriff seems to me to be more concerned with politics and re-election than other responsibilities.
On one of the news stations here a short time after this occurred, it was reported that the Deputy's training was actually to do exactly what he did. But I also read after Columbine that training had changed. I think Bear's position is one in the know, much better than the rest of us non-LE types, IMO. I like logic, but gut instinct developed from actual experience gets the nod in this case, again IMO. Thanks.
I only have one question and then I'll leave this thread alone...... Am I the pontificating troll ?? ;-)
No, not even close, you write with logic and reason and are respected for what you do, putting your life on the line everyday. The pontificating critical thought troll on the other hand relies on better than shit stirring posts as if the ramblings of paper pusher mattered.
As stated above the COWARD was no sheepdog.
Absolutely not BB. You've voiced your opinion and it has value. Unlike a certain critical thinking fail cry baby that trolls the CF.
BB - "The instructors will again stress to immediately go find the threat. Waiting could cost lives. Instructors nationwide will stress not to do what this Officer did."
This is taught now because most of these school shooters are kids who aren't well trained. One of these kooks will know this is the new policy and will set up an ambush to kill as many cops as they can who are rushing in. Then the policy will be modified.
A lot of training is involved to overcome the survival instinct - even in war there is a % that cannot do it (and they train an order of magnitude more than police officers who are an order of magnitude more than security officers who are an order of magnitude more than school teachers).
I could see him wondering where the shots are coming from for maybe a minute but after that why not go to the 1200 Building and check it out. Six minutes is an eternity when you are standing in one spot hearing shots going off. To me, he knew exactly what was going on and said I'm not going in there without backup.
