'Ike' (Phone)'s Link
In an interview with CNN's Chris Cuomo that quickly became emotionally charged, Rodman, wearing a red "Make America Great Again" hat, blasted former President Barack Obama for not taking the North Korean leader seriously.
Five years ago, Rodman said, Kim told Rodman "certain things" to relay to Obama concerning potential negotiations, but the former president "didn't even give me the time of day -- he just brushed me off, but that didn't deter me."
Rodman, who admitted he was "naive" when he first visited the rogue regime, then started weeping and repeatedly dabbed away tears from his eyes as he recounted the blowback he received in the U.S. for visiting Kim.
Your fav poster's Link
I am loving the current POTUS, he is a man of action. Liberal media will have no choice, but to swallow the bitter pill.
I agree, that video clearly demonstrates how biased and two-faced our media can be.
Matt
Grey Ghost's Link
"If you thought of the flag that was next to the American flag as a Nazi flag rather than a North Korean flag, everybody would see the concern,” he said. “This is slave state with 25 million prisoners and gulag system hundreds of thousands people wide… the president’s praise for the dictator of North Korea was disquieting.”
“The triumphalism that seems to be appearing in so many places this morning, where everybody is excited that President Trump met with Kim, that’s not justified by the outcome yet,” he said.
Shapiro also gave a harsh review to the document signed by Trump and Kim. “The piece of paper that got signed yesterday is frankly weak,” he said. “This is not a strong piece of paper.”
Matt
While I'm encouraged, I think it may be too early to celebrate. Similar to his father and grandfather, Kim hasn't exactly proven to be trust-worthy.
I'll be the first to praise Trump when there is actual results. So far it's been a nice dog and pony show, but not much else, IMO.
Flame away.....
Matt
1985: North Korea signs Nuclear NonProliferation Treaty 1992: North Korea signs historic agreement to halt nuclear program! (#1) 1994: North Korea signs historic agreement to halt nuclear program! (#2) 1999: North Korea signs historic agreement to end missile tests 2000: North Korea signs historic agreement to reunify Korea! Nobel Peace Prize is awarded 2005: North Korea declares support for "denuclearization" of Korean peninsula 2005: North Korea signs historic agreement to halt nuclear program and "denuclearize"! (#3) 2006: North Korea declares support for "denuclearization" of Korean peninsula 2006: North Korea again support for "denuclearization" of Korean peninsula 2007: North Korea signs historic agreement to halt nuclear program! (#4) 2007: N&S Korea sign agreement on reunification 2010: North Korea commits to ending Korean War 2010: North Korea announces commitment to "denuclearize" 2010: North Korea again announces commitment to "denuclearize" 2011: North Korea announces plan to halt nuclear and missile tests 2012: North Korea announces halt to nuclear program 2015: North Korea offers to halt nuclear tests 2016: North Korea again announces support for "denuclearization”
You threaten total annihilation, force a meeting, and sign a peaceful path forward. Trust but verify. There is no better first step, and little Kim's head looked like it was spinning the first time he stepped up to the big Kids table.
Amoebus's Link
Meet with a NK leader? Done in 1994. If that is all it takes for you guys to love carter, well so be it...
As Trax has pointed out in some of his posts (with the exception of this premature exclamation - "We GAINED a denuclearized North Korea") is all of this will take time - and, the RESULT at the end will determine if this is historically good or historically bad. There have been similar declarations between SK, NK and/or US dating to 1992 with a lot more details than this one that have failed because NK has failed to hold up its end of the promises in any of them.
The only thing ventured so far is that kim got his wish of being an equal to a US president ("honored" is what trump said). Then trump promised to stop military exercises (which surprised SK). It will be easy to start the exercises again if kim misbehaves. Harder to put that bromance back in the bottle.
I have said it on every thread that mentions NK, it would be great thing if this works. There are 25 million starving people that need rescuing, concentration/political camps that need to be closed and those pesky nukes that need to be destroyed. If that happens, then it truly will be historic.
For perspective, here is the declaration signed yesterday as it relates to nukes:
3. Reaffirming the April 27, 2018 Panmunjom Declaration, the DPRK commits to work toward complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.
Here is the 1994 Agreed Framework (see link for full text of the agreement):
I. Both sides will cooperate to replace the DPRK's graphite-moderated reactors and related facilities with light-water reactor (LWR) power plants.
1. In accordance with the October 20, 1994 letter of assurance from the U.S. President, the U.S. will undertake to make arrangements for the provision to the DPRK of a LWR project with a total generating capacity of approximately 2,000 MW(e) by a target date of 2003.
a. The U.S. will organize under its leadership an international consortium to finance and supply the LWR project to be provided to the DPRK. The U.S., representing the international consortium, will serve as the principal point of contact with the DPRK for the LWR project.
b. The U.S., representing the consortium, will make best efforts to secure the conclusion of a supply contract with the DPRK within six months of the date of this Document for the provision of the LWR project. Contract talks will begin as soon as possible after the date of this Document.
....
There is NO denuclearization, NO inspection regime.
All Kim did was sign a piece of paper reaffirming things he’s already said.
Trump GAVE UP military exercises to help our ALLY, South Korea and gave Kim legitimacy.
Where am I wrong?
What does make me laugh though is Rodman now being treated differently by conservative press for being critical of Obama than how he was treated when he was going over there before these negotiations. Then or now, what the heck is anybody listening or even caring what his perspective is?
What makes you think this go-around is different?
Matt
It was a first step. Honestly I have hope, but also I know.... geez, everyone knows... who and what we are dealing with. IMO this has a chance were others failed because I believe there was an ultimatum given. Cheat and we will blockade harbors, even bomb facilities. We will take you and your nukes out if you don't stop. I feel this has a chance because Trump I believe will do it, where all others before him were clearly bluffing. Like Obama's "line in the sand". American politicians like Clinton believed they could be bought off. So they made "payment" before seeing action. Stupid Americans. Carter? Everyone knew Carter would do nothing if they cheated, so they cheated. Obama was a joke.
This is a start. It may be a good thing for peace.... or if not in good faith, it may be the beginning of the destruction of NK. Either way, something is going to happen IMO. And I believe Trump will act if they renege. Hugely. The can will not be just kicked farther down the road.
There is NO denuclearization, NO inspection regime.
All Kim did was sign a piece of paper reaffirming things he’s already said.
Trump GAVE UP military exercises to help our ALLY, South Korea and gave Kim legitimacy.
Where am I wrong? ""
I think that is a fair question as I've already heard it on the usual left-wing MSM news outlets. Prez Trump was up front about this first meeting and any other possible meetings. He conveyed that a while back when talk of a meeting first arose.....he is prepared to walk if NK didn't agree to the full de-nuke preconditions. He clearly stated numerous times it will take several meetings to iron out the details. Many realistic folks didn't expect everything to be completed in just one brief meeting. Trump had a clear goal in mind for this first meeting and to me it looks like it was met and some initial progress has been made for the next meeting(s) to build upon.....that's fair enough. One meeting at a time and see where it goes. If NK backs out or tries to move the goal posts, I expect Trump to add more sanctions and war games. BTW.....cx-ing the war games will save the taxpayers a few million.
Because, this time it was forced with unprecedented sanctions, that put the NK regime on the brink of starvation (reinforced with pressure on the Chinese as well).
I know it tastes bitter, but eventually, you'll have to swallow it.
Just because you read it on FOX, CNN, or MSNBC doesnt mean its the whole story.
Most likely its a win for everyone.
Mid June, time to get camera's out and start taking a look to see what's out there with only a few draws left here in the West...Some of you guys should really try 'BowHunting' it's actually quite relaxing...Lol
first they berate Trump for being a hard ass with NK....
Now they are saying he is too soft?
Oh they just WANT him to fail...but instead he keeps on ticking. This "Soft" agreement is a stepping stone to better world relations.....it seems the liberals don't really want that....they just want to blindly hate conservative politics.
Sorry, we have seen what liberal Dems got us for the last 8 years- racial division and stale socialist policy......some Dems still can't see that.
No, they are laughing at idiots like you, that can't let go of their Trump hate enough to celebrate the possibility of the end of North Korea's Nuclear capability.
For the record of history, never before has a U.S. President spoken this way of a dictator accused of crimes against his own people.
And you say Obama was weak with foreign leaders?!?? Come on! Spin this one away!
Kim still has plenty of conventional artillery pointing at South Korea, and we still have plenty of equipment on Guam and Japan to keep the region straight.
To me, actual results will be verified denucleurization of NK. Not just shallow and non-specific declarations to "work towards" that goal, or meaningless commitments to on-going "negotiations", as stated in the agreement signed yesterday.
Is that specific enough for you? Feel free to hold me to it.
Matt
White House Created Production Video to Assist Singapore Summit Talks With North Korea….
Details are surfacing of a video put together by the White House to assist in diplomacy messaging toward Kim Jong-un and the team of North Korea negotiators. According to reports, toward the end of the talks between President Trump and Kim Jong-un the video was shared in both Korean and English languages to the audience of both teams.
Brilliant messaging. WATCH:
The video was also shared with the international media audience prior to President Trump’s remarks at the press conference:
You gave your word that when Trump won you'd leave the CF forever. He did and you didn't. You're wrong for even BEING here, AND a lying sack if sh*t to boot.
Yes, that is worthy of laughing out loud, because that's not even remotely close what I've said.
I encourage you to re-read my posts. If you're too lazy, I'll give you the short version. We've seen these commitments to "work towards" peace and further "negotiate" denuking NK before, and they've lied. Until that changes, it's politics as usual, IMO.
Savvy?
Matt
It will be interesting to see what trump says to this. Either he said it, which makes him a not-so-master negotiator. Or, he didn't say it and is getting played by kim. The second option is why other US leaders/diplomats don't go into meetings without someone who can verify what you talked about.
Negotiations typically involve both sides giving some concessions, does it not?
Yep. Both sides have a different take on what was said and agreed to, and the worthless document they signed doesn't clarify any of it.
But.....Kim got his 15 minutes of fame on the big stage, and Trump can tout his awesome deal-making prowess just in time for mid-terms.
Politics as usual.
Matt
The video trailer, news conferences, pictures of both leaders smiling like old friends, and positive words from our President are all geared towards one thing; playing to Kim Jong Un's ego.
Instead of harsh words and adversarial comments, Trump used positive reinforcement to soften up NK's leader. This is just the first step up a long, steep, and sketchy road to peace. Only time will tell if this works, but how incredible would it be if did.
Imagine growing up and being taught that SK and the United States are your worst enemy. Changing hearts and minds takes time, patience, and the slow building of trust. Of course we can expect NK to paint a different picture of the talks. In their eyes our media is doing the same thing. This process will take several years, if it works at all, before the fruits of this meeting will be harvested.
The second Trump victory was to get NK to stop the medium/long range missile tests.
The third (weak
Let's see what happens next. We can cancel the August military drills and stop buzzing Kim with B1 bombers as a good faith gesture, while Kim at least starts to dismantle nukes and put something significant on the table.
If even one Nuke leaves that country and gets turned over / dismantled in a verifiable way, I think GG needs to concede Trump will have accomplished more thus far in North Korea than any prior president.
At this point, I could care less what he says, as long as America keeps winning.
Probably has to do with the fact that you've listed a handful of accomplishments that Trump has had little to nothing to do with and would have likely been the result regardless of who is POTUS of this country. If you're going to give Trump credit for taking unemployment from 4.7% to 3.9%, are you going to give credit to Obama for taking it from 10% down to 4.7%? Same can be said if you look at trends of black unemployment, wages, investment, etc.
Exactly, and thank you for expressing my thoughts better than I would have.
I've never been one to dole out praise to someone just because they side with my political beliefs. I think every president has had his merits and faults, some more than others. I've never truly hated or loved everything about any president, and probably never will.
Matt
I love the fact that he's not Hillary. ;-)
Seriously though, for the sake of a forum discussion, I find it rather pointless to post just another "rah rah" comment every time Trump does something that I agree with. We get plenty of those posts already, and they usually don't lead to any meaningful conversation. Instead, I usually save my comments for when I have an opposing view to the consensus. I feel that civil, but contrarian, posts generally lead to more responses, sometimes they even lead to an interesting discussion on a rare occasion.
If that approach earns me the #NeverTrump label, so be it. I've been called worse.
Matt
In the Steve Harvey debate, you commented on how informative and civil it was in general. Pretty honest, lots of pros/cons looking at both sides of a debate, and no YFP. :-)
Your Trump comments seem to be all negative all the time. CNN is really undermining their credibility in that same manner. Just sayin'
BAIER: Kim Jong Un is "clearly executing people."
TRUMP: "He's a tough guy. Hey, when you take over a country, tough country, tough people, and you take it over from your father ... if you could do that at 27-years old, I mean, that's 1 in 10,000 that could do that." (via FOX)
The president just basically dismissed a murdeous tyrant and congratulated him on American tv.
It’s as if the murder of American student Otto Warmbier never happened.
Who could have predicted that the heartless lunatic who allows migrant babies to be ripped from the arms of their mothers and the lunatic who allows his own people to die in forced labor camps would find common ground?
Good grief..... stupid going downhill in overdrive.....
I get it. I just find it more interesting to be a contrarian than a cheerleader. Lord knows we have enough cheerleading around here.
That said, I value your opinion, and will take your criticisms to heart. Thanks.
Matt
Trump said, preposterously, that some parents of Korean War veterans came up to him during the 2016 campaign and said, "when you can, we'd love our son to be brought back home -- you know, the remains."
This is ludicrous! and possibly early dementia. How do you suppose he came to this conclusion? Is he making it up? lying? Can't wait to hear the justification on this one!
So now it appears he is lifting sanctions on Enemies who are nuclear threats,
Either KJU is lying or trump gave up the farm. Which is it?
Yeah. But Obama, right?
Is that why trump saluted a NK war criminal?
Is that why trump celebrated KJU and literally fawned over him like a 12 year old at a Justin Bieber concert?
Man, open your eyes. You’ve been hoodwinked. By a two bit conman. But I’m blind? Hahahaha.
You’re adorable.
This dog and pony show was surely a political win for Kim, since it legitimized him on a world stage. Trump....well, we all know how Trump and his cult will spin it, they already are. I'll reserve judgement until I see actual results.
Matt
Simple truth in this whole deal - Either NK dismantles its nuclear ambitions, or the economic sanctions (and possibility of military action) stay in place and his country continues to stay in the dark ages. If you want to join the rest of the world with economic growth and prosperity, you have the chance. But you don't get to take forever to decide and to drag it out. With the video they produced, which I'm sure was re-iterated in private during the meetings, it was very clear that this has to happen NOW. NOW is when you have the chance to take this offer, it's not going to be given again.
You don't deal with a tyrant like Un without already making sure he knows that you have the upper hand, the "Bigger Button", the ability to crush him. Once he knows the playing field, and knows that you WILL fix the situation with or without him, it becomes a matter of survival for him, and his survival will also make him look like a savior to his country. His denuclearization is his only way to survive, and it was likely presented to him in that fashion.
The difference in Trump's way of doing things is he is telling them that he has to see results first, then we will loosen sanctions, not the other way around as has been agreed to by past presidents. You play from a position of strength, and you win.
