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Another happy ending!
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Contributors to this thread:
Spike Bull 05-Jul-18
Shuteye 05-Jul-18
BIG BEAR 05-Jul-18
Spike Bull 05-Jul-18
BIG BEAR 05-Jul-18
HDE 05-Jul-18
BIG BEAR 05-Jul-18
Brotsky 05-Jul-18
JL 05-Jul-18
BIG BEAR 05-Jul-18
JL 05-Jul-18
BIG BEAR 05-Jul-18
HDE 05-Jul-18
JTV 05-Jul-18
Spike Bull 05-Jul-18
BIG BEAR 05-Jul-18
BIG BEAR 05-Jul-18
JTV 05-Jul-18
BIG BEAR 05-Jul-18
JTV 05-Jul-18
Woods Walker 05-Jul-18
Treeline 05-Jul-18
JTV 05-Jul-18
kyrob 05-Jul-18
BIG BEAR 05-Jul-18
HDE 05-Jul-18
HA/KS 05-Jul-18
Woods Walker 05-Jul-18
JTV 05-Jul-18
Spike Bull 06-Jul-18
BIG BEAR 06-Jul-18
lawdy 06-Jul-18
JTV 06-Jul-18
BIG BEAR 06-Jul-18
BIG BEAR 06-Jul-18
MK111 06-Jul-18
BIG BEAR 06-Jul-18
HDE 06-Jul-18
IdyllwildArcher 06-Jul-18
Woods Walker 06-Jul-18
BIG BEAR 06-Jul-18
KsRancher 06-Jul-18
Woods Walker 06-Jul-18
Woods Walker 06-Jul-18
BIG BEAR 06-Jul-18
BIG BEAR 06-Jul-18
IdyllwildArcher 06-Jul-18
BIG BEAR 06-Jul-18
Spike Bull 07-Jul-18
Spike Bull 07-Jul-18
LINK 07-Jul-18
BIG BEAR 07-Jul-18
HA/KS 07-Jul-18
BIG BEAR 07-Jul-18
Woods Walker 07-Jul-18
Spike Bull 07-Jul-18
HA/KS 07-Jul-18
BIG BEAR 07-Jul-18
Spike Bull 08-Jul-18
05-Jul-18

Spike Bull 's Link
Mother of two toddlers shoots car jacker in the face.

She wins.

From: Shuteye
05-Jul-18
Happy ending.

From: BIG BEAR
05-Jul-18
For what it’s worth........ It’s not a carjacking if someone jumps in a car and steals it.... a carjacking is an armed robbery of a person.... (or unarmed robbery/strong arm robbery if a suspect yanks someone out of the drivers seat)......and takes their car. In this situation it’s a stolen car.... big difference....... She should be OK because her children were in danger.......... But she shouldn’t be talking to the media about the facts of her case....

Bottom line is if you don’t want to get shot in the face don’t steal someone’s car.....

05-Jul-18
Stolen car is minimal compared to the kidnapping of the toddlers. In NH, kidnapping is a justification for the use of deadly force all by itself.

From: BIG BEAR
05-Jul-18
Yep..... If the kids were not in the car she’d be in a heap of trouble for shooting him over a stolen car.... that’s just a property crime........

She should not be talking to the media because I’m certain the attorneys for the family of the thief will claim he didn’t know the kids were in the car when he hopped in it to steal it......

From: HDE
05-Jul-18
Didn't know the kids were in the car? So what! Car thief got what they deserved...

From: BIG BEAR
05-Jul-18
I don’t disagree with you..... The only thing that matters in this case is that the kids are OK...... mom too.........

We had a stolen car a year or two where there was a baby in a baby seat in the back. The thief dropped the baby off in the seat on the porch of a vacant house....... parents don’t leave your kids in the car unattended....

We also had a mom leave her 2 babies in the car in the summer about 7 years ago while she was getting her hair done. Her babies died in the car from the heat.......

From: Brotsky
05-Jul-18
I thought this was another Stormy Daniels thread.

From: JL
05-Jul-18
It looks like in Texas it's kidnapping, unauthorized use of a vehicle and/or car-jacking. I'm thinking even if the kids weren't in the car, when she jumped in to protect her property and told the perp to stop and get out....and he refused to stop, it became kidnapping and she would claim she feared for safety/life and would have been justified to shoot him. Yes?...No?

From: BIG BEAR
05-Jul-18
Yes it’s possible if she could articulate it because of his crazy driving...... cops have shot car theives when the cops are on foot and they can articulate they were in fear of being run over..... They always end up getting sued..... but that’s the cost of doing business.....

From: JL
05-Jul-18
USA Today had this in their story.

""Wright was charged with unlawful restraint and unauthorized use of motor vehicle.""

I had to look up what Texas defines as unlawful restraint.

https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PE/htm/PE.20.htm

Sec. 20.02. UNLAWFUL RESTRAINT. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly restrains another person.

(b) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this section that:

(1) the person restrained was a child younger than 14 years of age;

(2) the actor was a relative of the child; and

(3) the actor's sole intent was to assume lawful control of the child.

(c) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor, except that the offense is:

(1) a state jail felony if the person restrained was a child younger than 17 years of age;

(2) a felony of the third degree if:

(A) the actor recklessly exposes the victim to a substantial risk of serious bodily injury;

(B) the actor restrains an individual the actor knows is a public servant while the public servant is lawfully discharging an official duty or in retaliation or on account of an exercise of official power or performance of an official duty as a public servant; or

(C) the actor while in custody restrains any other person; or

(3) notwithstanding Subdivision (2)(B), a felony of the second degree if the actor restrains an individual the actor knows is a peace officer or judge while the officer or judge is lawfully discharging an official duty or in retaliation or on account of an exercise of official power or performance of an official duty as a peace officer or judge.

(d) It is no offense to detain or move another under this section when it is for the purpose of effecting a lawful arrest or detaining an individual lawfully arrested.

(e) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this section that:

(1) the person restrained was a child who is 14 years of age or older and younger than 17 years of age;

(2) the actor does not restrain the child by force, intimidation, or deception; and

(3) the actor is not more than three years older than the child.

From: BIG BEAR
05-Jul-18
Yep.... I’m sure you guys learned in your CPL classes though that you should not talk to the media if you’re involved in a shooting....

From: HDE
05-Jul-18
Well, when everyone has a smart car, these kinds of things will stop - car will recognize an unauthorized driver is trying to use and will shut down.

Afterall, computers can do things so much better and safer than humans can...

From: JTV
05-Jul-18
BB, not here in Indiana.... we have our Castle Doctrine and it covers attempted car theft .. many have been thwarted by armed citizens ... happened just recently in Gary ... and another was just whacked as he tried to steal a SUV in a Walmart Parking lot in Portage In..... ..

05-Jul-18
I like that and more about Indiana. We work so hard for what we have and should not have to worry about the wellbeing of those who try to steal it. They will stop when word gets out that they could easily die for it.

From: BIG BEAR
05-Jul-18
That’s much different than where I work..... early in my career a guy shot and killed a kid who was sitting in his Jeep Grand Cherokee working on popping the ignition to steal it..... The owner of the car served 7 years for 2nd degree murder.....

From: BIG BEAR
05-Jul-18
Can the Police shoot a suspect in a stolen car in Indiana ?? Or does it have to be your own car ?

From: JTV
05-Jul-18
if their life is threatened for sure they can ...

From: BIG BEAR
05-Jul-18
What about straight up car theft...... where no ones life is threatened....???

From: JTV
05-Jul-18
here is the law about autos ..

(2) does not have a duty to retreat; if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent or terminate the other person’s unlawful entry of or attack on the person’s dwelling, curtilage, or occupied motor vehicle. (c) With respect to property other than a dwelling, curtilage, or an occupied motor vehicle, a person is justified in using reasonable force against another person if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to immediately prevent or terminate the other person’s trespass on or criminal interference with property lawfully in the person’s possession, lawfully in possession of a member of the person’s immediate family, or belonging to a person whose property the person has authority to protect.

From: Woods Walker
05-Jul-18
Sounds like a job for the JUDGE.......go to 1:35........

From: Treeline
05-Jul-18
Yup, no need for a jury with that little jewel:)

From: JTV
05-Jul-18
yup, that will leave a mark ........ there are some great PP loads out there for the .410 and for use in the Judge .. slug/shot combos ..

From: kyrob
05-Jul-18
I think if he was just stealing the car with no kids inside she would be in trouble. But, since her kids were in it he was fair game. But, But, if the kids weren't in the car and she jumped in her car that was being jacked, wouldn't she be the one being kidnapped and therefore justified in shooting the idiot.

From: BIG BEAR
05-Jul-18
Maybe Bad Karma can give an opinion on that..... One thing is for sure....... She’s a dumb ass for leaving a 2 year old and 4 year old in an unlocked running car with a loaded pistol in an unlocked glove box..... If she was charged with child endangerment it wouldn’t surprise me....... But all is well that ends well. The kids are OK..... that’s what’s important......

From: HDE
05-Jul-18
There are way too many do-gooder laws out there to make a sane person go insane...

From: HA/KS
05-Jul-18
BB, the kids at that age would be confined in car seats in the back seat and have no access to the glove box. Her big mistake was to stop after one shot.

From: Woods Walker
05-Jul-18
What if you live in your car? Would the castle doctrine then apply?

From: JTV
05-Jul-18
In Indiana it would ;0) .................

06-Jul-18
In NH the law says you can use deadly force to protect yourself or another from a qualifying attack with no requirement to abandon any place you are legally in. These are qualifying circumstances:

1. To protect your own life.

2. To protect the life of another.

3. Kidnapping.

4. Arson.

5. Forced sexual assualt.

6. Violent burglary likely to result in serious bodily harm.

7. Under lawful direction of an LEO.

Read them for yourselves in NH RSAs:

627.4

627.5

627.7

Again, these are New Hampshire Laws and can not be assumed applicable anywhere else.

From: BIG BEAR
06-Jul-18
Jeff.... you said in Indiana the Castle Doctrine covers attempted car theft.... but then you posted the law and it says OCCUPIED car.........

You might want to check your state law..... I’m pretty sure you can’t run out of your house and shoot someone who is in your car trying to steal it.......

Also note that the suspect was not charged with kidnapping...... but unlawful restraint... which I’m guessing is a lesser crime than kidnapping..... because his intent was to steal the car.

From: lawdy
06-Jul-18
Final rule for NH. If the burglar makes it outside or you shoot him coming in your window, pull his body into the house. Sheriff told my mother that 50 years ago when she blasted a guy breaking in through a window. Times have changed.

From: JTV
06-Jul-18
if I said car "theft" my mistake .. car jacking/ highjacking, whatever you want to call it .. if some punk wants to try and steal a "occupied" vehicle and esp. if you feel threatened (who wouldnt be) and your in it and armed, well then I hope one knows what to do .. I do ..

06-Jul-18
I think BB would agree the only thing you should say to the officer is "I feared for my life and now want to talk with my lawyer."

From: BIG BEAR
06-Jul-18
Come on Jeff.... You should know the difference between carjacking and car theft...... you’re in law enforcement aren’t you ?? We should be VERY clear that deadly force cannot be used in property crimes..... Unless the law of the state CLEARLY states it can....

From: BIG BEAR
06-Jul-18
Exactly Frank.

From: MK111
06-Jul-18
Who gives a crap as the bad guy lost and the good lady won. The world needs more of this.

From: BIG BEAR
06-Jul-18
Who gives a crap about having a discussion about when the use of deadly force is justified ?? That right there is scary.

There are lessons to be learned in every critical incident....We have these discussions all the time in briefing....

From: HDE
06-Jul-18
If prison were a miserable experience, I betcha you wouldn't have the crime, and repeat crime, that you do...

06-Jul-18
BB, What I disagree with the right to carry without having to take the class is that folks miss out on the type of information you are trying to convey here. It was excellent information to help prevent a legal, costly quagmire.

I 100% support right to carry, but encourage all to take the class. Protecting our loved ones includes financially as well as physically.

06-Jul-18
No one, anywhere, is going to convict a mother who kills a guy trying to drive off in a car that her children are inside of. Even in California, that's not gonna happen.

From: Woods Walker
06-Jul-18
Well.........if she were WHITE it might happen.

From: BIG BEAR
06-Jul-18
You are right Ike.... the kids were in danger..... no problems with this shooting........

Lessons to be learned...... The kids were put in danger because the mother left her 2 and 4 year old unattended in a running vehicle with the doors unlocked..... Where I work.... that’s an open invitation for someone to steal a car.... Lesson number 2..... If you are involved in a shooting........ Lawyer up after the fact... for God’s sake she shouldn’t have been giving a taped interview to the media........ anything she said could have been used against her in court later if she was charged with child endangerment or God forbid an unjustified shooting...

Frank.... I fully support everyone’s right to carry too.... And I fully believe that with that right comes the ABSOLUTE responsibility to know when you are justified in shooting someone.... That is why you are carrying..... Discussions and lessons learned should happen amongst law abiding carrying citizens in cases like this. It puts you in the right mind set of knowing EXACTLY when you are justified to use lethal force. I have had more than one discussion with people who thought they could shoot someone when legally they could not...... and was involved in an incident where a guy thought he did a good thing killing the kid that was stealing his car... and even called 911 himself to report it..... only to do 7 years in prison.

From: KsRancher
06-Jul-18
I would hope the Idyl is right. But with people out there that are like my brother. They use the excuse. "The punishment doesn't fit the crime." Those type of people always say that the mom should have shot him somewhere like the leg or arm. Or she should not have been out of the car and left her kids in the car. I am just the opposite, I say good job mom. And the SOB shouldn't have stole the car and he wouldn't have got shot. Pretty simple. Even if I lived in a state that it would have been against the law what she did. If I was on the jury I would even dream of convicting her of anything

From: Woods Walker
06-Jul-18
"And the SOB shouldn't have stole the car and he wouldn't have got shot."

Case closed......NEXT!

From: Woods Walker
06-Jul-18

From: BIG BEAR
06-Jul-18
That’s all and good Bravado talk Lou...... Do you suggest that the Police approach someone sitting in a car in the middle of the night working on popping the ignition to steal the car..... and just shoot them ????

How about a guy stealing a ham and running away....??? Shoot him in the back as he’s running away ?????

That might sound absurd..... But that’s what happened in the landmark Supreme Court Case of Garner vs. Tennessee..... that is one of the main Supreme Court rulings in the US that govern the use of lethal force.

From: BIG BEAR
06-Jul-18
I see you rethought your last post Lou and deleted it....

Listen..... My intent is not to be a jerk..... my goal is to help to keep you law abiding gun carrying good guys on the right side of the law....... I see all the time that guys don’t know the difference between a carjacking and a regular old theft of a car. A carjacking is a robbery.... a violent crime against a person. A car theft is a property crime..........

I hear people all the time say they were robbed when they were out of town and their house got broken into...... They did not get robbed. Robbery is a violent crime against a person......... They were a victim of home invasion...... and larceny is part of home invasion.....

If a house is occupied when a home invasion occurs.... it obviously steps up the severity of the crime..... to the point of defending yourself inside your home with lethal force.......

06-Jul-18
She was getting gas for Christ's sake.

Every mom across America leaves her kids strapped in the car while she fuels up. Why in the Hell would you get your toddlers out of the car to pump gas? They'd be in more danger in a busy gas station where cars are driving while mom is pumping gas, than they are strapped into their car seats.

Props to mom for being brave enough to jump back in the car as this guy tried to take off in it and even more so for shooting the guy in the face. She's a hero. All you need is 1 mother on this jury and there's no way she's ever getting convicted.

From: BIG BEAR
06-Jul-18
Ike...... If she’s running inside to pay for her gas.... then turn the car off and take the keys with her for Christ’s sake... the kids aren’t going to overheat in 5 minutes..... A running unattended car is an invitation to steal it in a lot of areas in the lower 48..... People leave their cars running and then endanger lives in Police Pursuits.... Maybe car theft doesn’t happen up there in Alaska much..... where I work..... multiple cars are stolen every day.... everyone knows that here....

Not only that..... she left her loaded pistol in an unlocked glove box in an unlocked running car while she went inside to pay for gas. Would you leave your vehicle running unlocked with your pistol in the glovebox while you go inside a gas station to pay for gas ?? I’d say that’s a dumb ass move..... but maybe that’s just me.

These are the things that we should discuss as law abiding gun owners and responsible carriers of guns...

07-Jul-18
Idyl Is absolutely correct! She was pumping gas! NO ONE unloads kids to pump gas for very good reasons! Mom Is a hero in my book.

Ks touched on something extremely important here: " If I was on the jury I would even dream of convicting her of anything."

While BB's advice to KNOW THE LAW is seriously important it should be accompanied by Ks's important point. Every citizen should know his rights and the laws relavent to jury nullification! We, as citizens of the US, are given the right and the duty, Constitutionally, to NULLIFY any and all bad laws by refusing to convict anyone of breaking them regardless of the fact that they did!

Jury nullification is a very important right that is seriously suppressed by the government and the legal system but must be studied, understood, and used!

07-Jul-18
Sorry, BB, we must have been posting at the same time. Yes she should have taken her keys and I suggest when people carry they CARRY! I never leave my weapon in the truck, if i am carrying i carry on my person. If that criminal got away with the car and the kids he would then be an ARMED multiple felon! That puts our LEOs, and everyone else, in unnecessary danger!

From: LINK
07-Jul-18
In this day and age if you leave your kids in a car with no AC running, even for 5 minutes, you’re likely to have someone break your window to “save” your kids and turn you in to child protective services. Big bear might not agree but I leave the car running and take my key fob so i can lock it.

07-Jul-18
Spike,

You bring up some excellent points; however, I would not count on a jury nullification when you just admitted the government tried to suppress them.

Given what we know, I agree with her actions outside of going public with them. It offers something into her potential state of mind IMO.

Even when convinced of one's rights, you may end up spending a lot of money to win. One of our biggest challenges today is our criminal justice system's ability to bankrupt someone if they want you bad enough. Thanks.

From: BIG BEAR
07-Jul-18
Link..... that could possibly happen in the parking lot of a mall or grocery store...... But highly unlikely at a gas station where the owner of the car can be located in mere seconds.....

Leaving an unattended car running is actually illegal in Michigan...... But newer cars have auto start where you can safely leave them running without the keys in them......

From: HA/KS
07-Jul-18
Unless I missed it, there is nothing in the article that indicates that the car was left running. In fact, I believe it is illegal in most places to fuel a car while it is running.

Obviously, the keys were left in the car, but it may not have been left running.

From: BIG BEAR
07-Jul-18
Ummmm.... why would she leave the keys in the car if it wasn’t running...... We get stolen cars every day when people leave their cars running..Its a crime of opportunity ... some of those turn into Police Pursuits.... unless she turned the car off and someone happened to look in her car and see the keys..... I’m pretty sure it was running......

From: Woods Walker
07-Jul-18
I leave my keys in my truck every night and it damn sure isn't running. My wallet too. That's the great thing about living in the country.

"I live back in the woods you see, my woman and the kids and the dogs and me........"

07-Jul-18
HfW, no conflict there at all, unless one insists on inventing one. There are many ways to attempt to suppress jury nullification, and many ways to use it successfully. You should look into it.

From: HA/KS
07-Jul-18
I often leave my keys on the dash while I pump gas. If I don't, I end up trying to pull them out of my pocket while seated.

From: BIG BEAR
07-Jul-18
Would you do that in the inner city with a 2 year old and a 4 year old and your pistol in the car ?? Would you walk inside to pay for your gas ? Look..... I’m not on the side of the bad guy..... I’m simply trying to convey that this type of thing happens constantly in the city..... and is preventable.....

07-Jul-18
Spike,

A jury nullification means there was an expensive trial, and risk is involved as to the outcome.

I think what BB is trying to say is exercising some good judgement with regards to our actions can prevent this. JMHO sir.

08-Jul-18
I agree, avoiding both the charge and the trial is best by far. My comment was written about Ks' comment that he would never convict her if he was on the jury. THAT is a very smart approach should it get that far, which was his scenario.

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