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Good for you. In the end, that's what really matters. I'm 66 and a stickbow shooter and will continue to be as long as I can. If/when the time ever comes I'll do what you're doing in a heartbeat. I love being in the woods too darn much to be limited by hardware.

My only problem with them (and crossbows as well) is that they're too darn heavy and complicated. As I get older I like simpler..... ;-)

That said, I've never owned a crossbow but I would like to shoot one and see if I like it. If a crossbow is being used for 125 yrd shots, may as well hunt with a rifle.

I guess next we'll not be concerned about wounding animals that run away and die from a poorly placed shot at long distance. Make it "easier'.

No one could accurately shoot a compound at 100 yards in the 80s. Shooters haven’t improved.... the equipment has.....

The next generation of gadgets like slider sites will push the limits to 150 yards......

Sooo......the tricky part about using a bow is SHOT PLACEMENT. It MUST be precise. Not only must you be able to pick a hair out in the exact place you want that arrow to enter the animal, you must also know the angle that is being presented to you. The further the distance (especially in cover) the more difficult this becomes.

Combine this with the reality that in spite of how fast today's compounds and crossbows are, a deer can STILL move at the shot and make what should have been a vital hit into a wound. The further you shoot the higher the odds are of this. These factors, IMO, is what makes a bow....ANY bow....a short range weapon.

Yes, many archers can and do hit targets at long ranges. I shoot a stickbow and PRACTICE at 80+ yards. I have no intent of taking a shot at a live animal at that range but it's good for form work.

Crossbows for injured people only in the general archery season. Huge difference between a hand held, hand drawn bow, which is drawn and held by your own muscle when the animal arrives, huge difference between that and cocking a gun with a device which provides a mechanical advantage, then string is held in place mechanically, and does not need to be drawn when animal arrives. Huge difference between a hand held vertical bow and a shoulder fired crossgun.

Alaska requires a 3 day safety crossbow course ,shot placement, broad heads that are legal in Alaska, limited range of crossbows ,ended with shooting at 10,20,30 yards ,three arrows at each range =all 3 shots must be in kill zone or you fail the test. Crossbows in Alaska hunting only in firearms season. I like make a point I only shoot snowshoe hares at ranges up 125 yards ,We limit big game at 50 yards with heavy arrows and ordinal Bear one piece broad heads my 10 year daughter killed nice Sitka Blacktail Deer with Gearheads new take down crossbow, I did post on Stick Bow around 1995 -2000 under joelongbow I lived in Maryland than and two older gents made the best longbows 21st Century Longbows I believe they both are up in heavens happy hunting grounds now,

Yes Did you mean Winchester 1895? . 338-06 A custom job with custom barrel I believe 28 inches ,great gun 3/4 inch groups with 200 grain noslers

Show me anyone who’s consistently hitting a pie plate at 90 yards with a recurve.... Let alone shooting game out to that range.......

Another aspect of this weapon of choice debate is CWD........... Here in Michigan..... our DNR isn’t going to give a damned what weapon you use to kill deer with in the CWD zones (which is rapidly growing)...... They’re simply going to attempt to eradicate as many deer as possible in those areas..... They’re opening early rifle seasons to do just that.

The X16 Tactical is yet another new design from Gearhead Archery in 2018! The Gearhead team stepped it up, yet again. This crossbow is packable and is of a take down design. The X16 Tactical has a precision dovetail joint with a robust clamping mechanism. This allows the X16 Tactical to be assembled in the field without sacrificing accuracy. Just slide the two halves together to the alignment stop and cam clamp into place. The footprint and pecs of this crossbow are the same as the X16. It is built with the Trigger Tech trigger box and Firenock Aerorest. The X16 Tactical crossbow is the first of its kind. It is superior in accuracy, breaks down and fits in a field pack, all in just a few minutes. No more challenging transportation of your crossbow. Gearhead Archery makes it easy with the X16 Tactical!

Weight: 5.25 lbs

* Custom Pack included.

* Scope not included at base price.

Rethinking Tradition Innovations:

1) Patent Pending IFU or index feather up technology alleviates power cable wear by flipping the arrow index feather up and drastically reducing the vanes clearance needed increasing speed and accuracy. Traditionally all other crossbows place index feather down with a rear arrow hold down, requiring the power cables to be pulled down significantly creating cable wear, cam lean, diminished accuracy, and reduced performance.

2) Patent Pending PSP parallel stock plate technology, the stock on the X16 is 90% air and the rest is carbon fiber plates spaced apart and tapered at the attachment point of the bow to create an extremely accurate and lightweight stock platform. The stock and riser have integrated vibration sound suppression free floating between and within the stock making the X16 the quietest crossbow ever.

3) The accuracy of the X16 is unmatched by using a standard nocked arrow that is simultaneously guided with a forward whisker biscuit and an arrow barrel guide the X16 delivers rifle like performance.

4) The X16 has the same power stroke as our T18 series bows and shoots standard arrows with available poundage's of 75, 90 and 125 pound. At 125lbs the X16 delivers arrows at speeds of 350 fps.

5) The X16 does not require a foot stirrup to cock or a rope cocker and simply put is a joy to shoot. This crossbow can be cocked in a tree stand, blind, or sitting down with ease. A rope cocker slot and foot stirrup are provided and cocking the X16 is effortless enough for most anyone to cock.

6) The X16 uses a fully machined billet trigger with dual sealed bearing for precise movement and an adjustable creep and pull.

7) The X16 is a fully machined crossbow with wood inlay grips and built like a finely crafted rifle.

Specifications

• Overall Length: 35" ATA cocked/uncocked: 14.75"/18.5" • Power stroke: 16" • Weight Carbon: 5.0 lb without accessories • Weight Aluminum: 6.0 lb without accessories • Accessories: Rail and Sling Mounts • Speeds: Up to 350 fps at 125lbs • Trigger Latch: Anti-drive fire and bearing trigger • Trigger Pull: 2.1 lb • Pound Pull: 75,90 and 125lb • Dampening: Sound dampening riser and stock • Black oxide coated stainless steel hardware • Two track cam system licensed under US patent 7,997,259 • Additional patents pending

Handy tool to have in areas where firearms are not allowed. Those Scorpyd (sp?) crossbows look pretty darn impressive!!

Where does the Benjamin arrow blasting air bow gun fit ????

Thanks

Yes, a crossbow is different from a compound bow, and a compound bow is WAY different than a stickbow. But it's NOT a "gun". It shoots an arrow that kills by shock via blood loss, that was propelled by energy stored in drawn limbs. THAT is a bow. There were no explosions of any sort, other than maybe the fart made by the person holding the bow.

Why not stick to FACTS, and then maybe the rest of your argument may have some credence.

My friend I am a bow hunter just like as much when I was 12 with Bear Kodak difference I don't force my words, weapons and ideas on others ,I walk 5 miles a day ,have sex just as much and fart a little more but I am still just as much as man as anyone here. ... jtv said == maybe condolence or remorseful is better === really JTV -that is rudest shameful, hurtfully comment anyone every said too me,, ,

Bowhunting will continue to contract, crossbow hunting will continue to expand. The golden days for REAL bowhunting are in the past. Join Comptons today, the small minority who hunt the hard way.

Point creep is however very real with many species out here in the west, ( and bears, moose etc in the east ). Anything we do to increase the harvest percentage of these animals will result in longer periods for the license draw. Decreased opportunity for the individual hunters, but no impact on game managers as license numbers are adjusted to meet harvest expectations..... which are partly based on the efficiency of weapons used. Crossbows for all hunters in archery seasons here in Montana, Colorado etc would be a real game changer for the elk, deer, sheep, goat and antelope permitting process, already on a limited draw or quota, sometimes very limited. Farmland elk, deer and antelope would be very easy with a scoped crossbow.

I realize many of you have a mid western whitetail mentality..... but sometimes one has to look at the greater picture.

From: lawdy

07-Jul-18

Private Reply

This thread has been fun but we all live in different environments. Some live where you can shoot a deer hundreds of yards away. Up here, 50 yards is a long shot with a rifle. Some live where you hunt little patches of woods and have no trespassing signs everywhere. Some live where deer are thick and some , like myself, live where the deer density is 1 per square mile. It's easier to kill a bear up here than a deer. Therefore, the weapon you use makes a big difference, or not, depending on the area. Jim Zumbo came up here to our village to hunt deer and write a story. He never set eyes on a deer and asked how we get a deer up here. I told him you find a track and follow it and hope the deer makes a mistake. He didn't get a deer and never came back. Carry on gentlemen.

Thank you I has been fun, Plus this thread helping some get over "their" life time fear of Crossbows ,,Keep up good work and comments,

Joe

Now you've done it. I want a Longbow now.

History always repeats now 2018s that crossbow going wipe out our deer herd in 5 years ,its a crossbow it is not a bow doesn't belong in my bow season . Fear& Jealousness =,unless of course I'm concerned that he(crossbow-guy) will somehow have an advantage over me when "my" big buck walks in front of him. (Fear)

Not the end of anything, just a loss for bowhunters, bowhunting and bowhunting culture. Scoped crossbow use will continue to increase, as will scoped crossbow hunting, and scoped crossbow culture.

Remember, if you use a modern scoped crossbow you are not a bowhunter, you are a scoped crossbow hunter. Nothing wrong with that.

From: BIG BEAR

06-Jul-18

Private Reply Big Bear

Rockstar...... If you ever make it to the UP of Michigan you are welcome to hunt my land with a crossbow.... I hunt with a compound.... and have tried and missed with my recurves..... I own a crossbow but I have never hunted with it...... it’s for my kids....

Thanks I work 2 weeks than off 2 weeks how most us work up oil fields in Alaska I miss whitetail hunting all we have is Blactail Sitka deer on 100s islands near Sitka Ak ,not much sport they aren't hunted and when you land a small boat the whole herd walks over to see what u are some a few feet away till you shoot 3 or 4 with crossbow or other type bow or 243 -I carry 45/70 for bear chargers - than they hop 50 yards and stand there again.lol

Anyone can hunt with me free and stay on my island house-wife good cook - you need be able ride in a boat a few hours and help put up a wall tent, Aug 15-Dec 31 is Blacktail ,Brown Bear long season but im only one that can shoot one in lest u pay a guide 100 dollars go with us,Brown bear like rats we don't hunt them at all. Deer all over too. Bear steal a few deer from us now and than.

Thank You ! April I believe was in Tampa Florida for that photo shoot ,,,,,,

April liking the Kodabow Scout recurve crossbow with AR15 Type receiver with Recurve limbs for Moose ,she like 257 Weatherby and 240 Weatherby for Blacktails . She not into longbows or Recurves she kinda of scared gettin hurt with string,

all my hunting pictures are on my 61 foot Viking home july 11 for two weeks r and r .. Joe in Alaska

Tonio Andrade, in his book The Gunpowder Age, makes the argument that the Chinese were the first to implement volley fire with firearms and this tradition evolved from one initially pioneered with crossbows long before before the English Longbow was invented .

He mentions that the first evidence of volley fire goes back to the Warring States period of China (475 - 221 BCE) and developed with subsequent Chinese dynasties. One example laid out is that of a manual produced by the martial artist, Cheng Chongdou which envisions crossbowmen being divided into three teams of hundred and that they follow the procedure below:

The first hundred of them have already loaded their arrows and are already arrayed together in the front. They are labeled "shooting crossbows" [he is referencing a diagram of the procedure accompanying the text]. The next hundred crosssbowmen have also already loaded their arrows, but they are arrayed together in the next row and are labeled "advancing crossbows." Finally, the last hundred men are arrayed behind them, in [the third and] last row. They are loading their crossbows...The first hundred men...shoot. After they are done they retire to the rear, at which the second hundred men...move to the fore and themselves become "shooting crossbows." The rear hundred men...move forward and become the "advancing crossbows"...And in this way they revolve and take turns firing a constant stream, and the crossbows sound without cease. " The Cross bowers were feared and also respected as the Crossbow army invented the first Gorilla Tactics known to man:

Cheng Chongdou notes the antiquity of this technique as he prefaces his description of the above process by mentioning how, "the ancients used ten thousand crossbows shooting in concert to win victories over enemies." Professor Andrade also quotes examples from the earlier Tang and Song dynasties which also envision groups of crossbowmen performing a countermarch, where the front ranks would fire and retreat to reload while being replaced by fresh crossbowmen from the back.

It should also be noted that in the Chinese case, there were no troops such as pikemen to protect the crossbowmen. They were expected to "plant their legs like mountains" and put out a concentrated stream of arrows to stymie any advance against them.

In short, the Chinese did develop firearms style tactics with crossbows (though it should be mentioned that Ming military thinkers like Qi Jiguang probably adapted pre-existing crossbow volley tactics for firearms).

Bowhunter numbers are on a decline in the US, and crossbow hunters are on an increase. Bowhunting is therefore on a decline, while crossbow hunting is increasing. Do not confuse the two.

Think about it.....the very name "BOW" refers to the bow or the arc made by the limb when it's flexed to create the energy to propel the arrow.

Or a compound bow either. Or is it comp-GUN? You don't hold all the weight, it has triggers and sights, and it doesn't "look" anything at all like a stickbow.

Until then ill continue to sit on my high perch looking down my nose at those who use advance technological equipement to exercise mankinds most primival instinct....

Since its fishing season in my part of the world will start netting, spearing, harpooning, trapping all the fish I can get, use any bait, hook combination cause after all I am the same as any one holding a rod and using one line. What do you think would happen to me once the DNR and local sporting association, lake association fellow fishermen find out? Especially if I tell them its none of their business what method I choose to use and where I use it??

Method of take does matter so stop pretending it doesn't. Crossbows, crossguns airbows are superior to anything launching an arrow held by hand. Only someone lying to themselves and this forum knows that. So if you are one of those people that want any and all methods at any time be honest , say so and lobby for it to change the game laws. See how far you get. If you lie about it and misrepresent the weapon used and method of take the truth will come about eventually, it always does. Then you loose your case.

Separate seasons, separate methods of take otherwise someone is always going to be unhappy and the resource will suffer.

Parts of Montana have archery only seasons and archery units for elk and antelope. Scoped crossbows if legal for all, will lead to point creep and season length reduction. This will reduce opportunity for bowhunters. Just something to think about.

"Could just have one season , use any weapon, bow, crossbow or gun. Equal opportunity for all! That way, nobody has to be concerned about the what the neighbor across the fence is using, as long as it is legal....right?" Wrong. There are different seasons for safety reasons.

Ironically, some of the people that are the first to scream that crossbows don't belong in gun season, are also the ones that say they hunt all through the gun seasons with their bows.

Apparently they don't mind being all lumped together.

KPC"

Like I stated before, many on here are secretly scoped crossbow shooters, promoters and enablers, posing as real bowhunters as defined by the P&Y Club.

Although these explanations might sound like reasons, they are actually just motives. Hunters enjoy these aspects of hunting, and that is why they hunt. A serial killer might say some of the same things about his pursuit: he likes the thrill and the challenge of stalking his prey and of successfully bagging it. Hunters have another thing in common with serial killers: they often take a trophy from their victims, skin, hair, or a body part. In both cases, the killing gives the killer a sense of accomplishment and the desire to remember and relive the whole experience in the future.

I want to be clear that I am not saying that hunters are the same as serial killers. I am examining the justifications offered by hunters for hunting. And if those justifications are no stronger than what a serial killer might say to justify serial killing, then that might cast doubt on the legitimacy of both enterprises.

Ah, but hunters also provide some redeeming features for their acts, features not shared by the exploits of most serial killers. Hunters often donate the flesh of their animal victims to poor people to eat. Serial killers, by contrast, do not donate their victims' organs for transplantation. Hunters also say that the fees they must pay to hunt are used to support conservation. And best of all, they argue that hunting prevents animal populations such as the white deer from becoming too large, leading to starvation. Hunters also cite the fact that hunting is a tradition.

There are responses to each of these claims. First, one can help poor, hungry people without anyone having to aim a weapon at an animal. And if it is possible to do something charitable without killing anyone, then it becomes harder to justify an insistence on killing.

Second, if paying hunting fees supports worthwhile projects, then maybe we should all pay the fees and not kill anyone. We might think of our tax system as a method for collecting money to accomplish important objectives without the need to license any killing.

And what about the third redeeming act -- saving animals from overpopulation? Well, if that is a priority, then it is difficult to explain why so many hunters choose to aim their weapons at male deer victims rather than at does. If one wants to limit population through slaughter, one kills females, the members of the herd who provide a ceiling on possible offspring by their own number, not males, even a small number of whom can inseminate a large female herd. If one's goal were instead to collect an antler trophy or encourage the population growth of one's preferred killing targets, though, then shooting the males would actually make sense. And in any event, we would not countenance the murder of individuals to help stem overpopulation among humans, so why should we accept it when the victims are animals?

Fourth and finally, the fact that a particular form of violence is traditional is actually a reason to question it--because traditions have generally enjoyed a freedom from scrutiny--rather than a reason to think it is a beneficial or even innocuous activity. Some of the worst American practices, enslavement, racism, discrimination, xenophobia, female disenfranchisement, and lawful marital rape all endured for a very long time, despite being despicable, on account of their longstanding traditional nature.

Should we be surprised that the arguments that hunters and their allies make to support hunting do not survive careful scrutiny? The first "reasons" for hunting are in fact the real ones: people hunt because they like it. They use weapons to kill animals who want to live, who have families and others with whom they have bonded, who did nothing to harm or threaten the hunters, because hunters find it fun, exciting, and satisfying. The various allegedly redeeming features of the practice are there mainly to rationalize the practice after the fact. People can say, "I feel good about hunting, because I know poor people will be helped by my activity."

What about those JATO assisted 'SMART" arrows and bolts with embedded GPS and exploding broadheads? Work great and the auto-baggie option packs the burger as an even greater labor saving device! I can now shoot a doe across the street in the next county and my Amazon drone will deliver my venison right to my front porch! Love the increasing technology that makes hunting easier and less stressful.

Observation (from MI). Initially, crossbows were legal in archery season for only the handicapped which few had any problems with. However, as doctor shopping allowed more and more people to become "archery handicapped", it seems that the moneyed special interests (manufacturers) put a hefty amount of lobbying money to get the crossbow legal for any and all...and it happened.

It is interesting (digressive) to note a similar action has taken with medical marijuana. The same progression is occurring.

Matt

Or the Rothchilds and the Iluminati. For pete's sake get with the program, Kevin.

So if you use a mechanical release you aren't a bow hunter? WOW! The compgun guys are going to go apoplectic!

Here's a bit of advice. Don't start a new thread about crossbows on a site that is predominately compound or traditional archery users...it never ends well for you.

I have no dog in this fight. I'm a hunter. Period. Whether it's a club, leg-hold trap, sling-shot, traditional bow, compound bow, BB gun, pellet gun, muzzleloader, or rifle....I've enjoyed killing and eating animals with all of them. For big game I prefer seasons with "archery" in their names, mostly because of the greater challenge, longer seasons, and the opportunity to hunt during the rut.

But there has to be a line drawn somewhere for the definition of "archery". IMO, a archery weapon should have to be manually drawn, held, aimed, and arrow released at the time of the shot. If you have to do nothing more than aim and shoot, it's not archery equipment in my book.

But, I respect the rights of others to have a different definition.

Matt

Yeah.... they have tee shirts with the group motto "Pick a Spot".

Stickbow hunters said the same thing when compguns came out.

PS........ if you’ve been in on 70 bear kills..... then I think the method you are using is WAY to easy..... you should resort to ONLY stalking bears with no bait using a longbow.......

Scientific study.......... I own a crossbow....... it has killed ZERO deer.....(or anything else)........ In the time I have owned that crossbow.... I have killed 3 deer with my compound bow........ So my compound bow is 300% more effective at killing than my crossbow.......Hahahahaha

I am Wildcatter on Archerytalk crossbow and I am called BuckStop on Crossbow nation ---I been banned 167 times on Archerytalk crossbow and only 32 times on crossbow nation, ,the boys hate me telling it like it is when I tell them stop baiting deer or one guy Ironduke is he paid hunter in NJ he owns a deer management company and shoots over 150 deer a year with 75 dollar price on each deer killed. with crossbow he on crossbownation,.check it out ,,

If we can agree on nothing else, can we at least agree that KPC must never post pictures to prove this?

I will be posting nice hunting pictures and Alaskan hunting trips starting july 12

Do I need to say more?

Matt

The only reason I bring this up is because guys have called you Paul Blart on here and PMd me with the name of the company you work for...... No big deal..... honest work.

I will be in Sitka July 11 ,I will take a picture next to our 42 foot islander sailboat called EROs and Viking ,I ill ask wife sign a picture for you JTV she returns from New Port Richey FL on July 19 ,her mom been sick. Never Fear The Rock Star is Here,

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Some of you have touted, "If it ain't vertical, it ain't a bow.", or , "If it ain't vertical, it ain't archery equipment."

Well well well. The Crossbow Manufacturers have been listening, and probably been reading Bowsite too.

Here is the results of all your beeching ( see photo ), a Vertical Crossbow by Hickory Ridge. They even make a miniature version for horseback packing on drop camps and western wilderness.

LOL ! Hey, keep up the beeching and hating, and next thing you know ONLY crossbows will be allowed !!!!!

By the way the Hickory Creek bow is for sale with no scope.

So does this rockstar guy think he is really married to a random internet photo? If we can't get past the crazy bullshit back story (like with Putz) why would his opinion on anything, crossbow or otherwise, really matter? It's more of an argument AGAINST ravin crossbows if their fan base consists of delusional internet wack jobs.

Just need to settle if a crossbow is a crossbow or a cross bow and we could all agree.