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Ravin R20 Crossbow Your Next Rifle
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JTV 05-Jul-18
Woods Walker 05-Jul-18
Tonybear61 05-Jul-18
lawdy 05-Jul-18
JTV 05-Jul-18
BIG BEAR 05-Jul-18
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RK 05-Jul-18
JTV 05-Jul-18
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05-Jul-18

RockStarArcherytalk's embedded Photo
RockStarArcherytalk's embedded Photo
I have say my Ravin R20 serving me well 2 moose and 6 Sitka deer this year in Sitka Alaska. I have forever retired my Holt Compound ,Ravin just makes shots up to 125 yards as easy as my 338/06 Custom Winchester 1895 Lever Action. RockStar-JoeC

From: JTV
05-Jul-18
Troll ........

05-Jul-18
I am not trolling ,I been longbow shooter most of my life at 62 cannot use my back and arms to draw a Trad bow no more ,,, a Crossbow a bow it just keeps us older gents like me hunting longer.. Joe

From: Woods Walker
05-Jul-18
".......... keeps us older gents like me hunting longer."

Good for you. In the end, that's what really matters. I'm 66 and a stickbow shooter and will continue to be as long as I can. If/when the time ever comes I'll do what you're doing in a heartbeat. I love being in the woods too darn much to be limited by hardware.

From: Tonybear61
05-Jul-18
Fine as long as you don't push for full inclusion in the general archery season (e.g. the guys who still can and do shoot with hand held bows). Handicapped with permit has never been an issue in my state. Everyone understands that.

From: lawdy
05-Jul-18
Am 72 and have never shot a compound, just a longbow for 65 years. Low poundage, wood arrows, and a zwicky eskimo do the trick. Hope I can keep using it until I die. If I can't, I will use my 5 1/2 pound 45 cal. New England flinter. I strictly groundhunt and carrying a crossbow in our woods wouldn't be fun I think.

From: JTV
05-Jul-18
I'll NEVER use one of those things .. I'll go back to gun hunting if I have to ... at least there is no hiding what they are ..

From: BIG BEAR
05-Jul-18
You ran your own stop sign Jeff.....

From: Woods Walker
05-Jul-18
Who's hiding anything?? A crossbow shoots an arrow launched by energy stored in drawn limbs. At no time in the process is there a "boom" or explosion of any sort. Just like a compound bow.

My only problem with them (and crossbows as well) is that they're too darn heavy and complicated. As I get older I like simpler..... ;-)

From: RK
05-Jul-18
The best advice for crossbow users is to never shoot an animal that someone that does not use a crossbow would possibly have a chance to shoot LMAO. This crossbow situation is nothing but an oxygen thief Wasted time and energy

From: JTV
05-Jul-18
For you BB ^^ .. i still cant stand the things .. they should be in seasons with shoulder fired weapons ...

From: Woods Walker
05-Jul-18
So don't use one! Problem solved! I mean, if someone's in the woods and does shoot one unless you can see him you'd never know anyway.

From: JTV
05-Jul-18
WW, you and I agree 99% of the time .... this 1% we will never agree on ..... leave it at that ..

From: BIG BEAR
05-Jul-18
Stop sign Jeff.... your stop sign.

From: Woods Walker
05-Jul-18
I will if you will!

From: sleepyhunter
05-Jul-18

sleepyhunter's embedded Photo
sleepyhunter's embedded Photo
This sign is a better fit for you BB.

That said, I've never owned a crossbow but I would like to shoot one and see if I like it. If a crossbow is being used for 125 yrd shots, may as well hunt with a rifle.

From: HDE
05-Jul-18
What about a handheld bow being used for 125 yd shots...?

From: BIG BEAR
05-Jul-18
No voting for Obama beyond this point...... Is the sign for you AW.....

From: MK111
05-Jul-18
This is the reason hunting will go down the drain. If you don't think it's your way of doing things then let's legal it out of use or make a special season for it. Ever think maybe your idea of doing things it's the only OK idea out there?

From: JTV
05-Jul-18
HDE, if one is practicing... but on a live animal, I would hope not ... "Practice" at longer range, to be better at shorter range .. ....

From: BIG BEAR
06-Jul-18
Just saw Levi Morgan kill a moose at 88 yards on TV...... The farther we push the effective range of the compound.... the harder it is to argue that archery is supposed to be a close range weapon......

From: Glunt@work
06-Jul-18
Crossbows aren't the awkward weapons they were 10 years ago. They are rapidly changing and will be even lighter and more carry-friendly in a few years. already 6" wide and lighter than the scoped rifle most guys hunt with. Glad you had some success rockstar. Did you mean Winchester 1895? Never seen a 1995 model. 338-06 is a neat round. If I ever can't pull a bow, lever guns, roundball muzzleloaders and handguns will be how I spend most of my time big game hunting. I have no issue with crossbows but in my State they wouldn't help with any of the major issues we battle with regards to bow season. We have triple the number of hunters from when I started, huge competition for decent tags, land access is getting harder and more expensive and there is a lot of competition for available days in the fall with new rifle seasons being added during archery.

From: sleepyhunter
06-Jul-18
"" The farther we push the effective range of the compound.... the harder it is to argue that archery is supposed to be a close range weapon...... ""

I guess next we'll not be concerned about wounding animals that run away and die from a poorly placed shot at long distance. Make it "easier'.

From: Scout
06-Jul-18
Just gut one myself, I'm going in for my third rotator cuff surgery Monday. I tried to keep shooting my compound, which got me into the position I'm in now.

From: K Cummings
06-Jul-18
"The farther we push the effective range of the compound.... the harder it is to argue that archery is supposed to be a close range weapon......

I never quite understood the "effective range" argument. The effective range of any bow is as far as it will shoot. Any bow that will kill at 15 yards will also kill at 100. The only difference is the archer's ability to put the arrow where it needs to go, and the animal still being there when it arrives.

The effective range of any weapon is much more about the person shooting it than the weapon itself.

KPC

06-Jul-18
In my experience as a bow machanic I did plenty of work on crossbows and test fired them indoors and out many times. I see no significant difference in performance between them in practical use. Personally I prefer a regular compound bow but see no reason to exclude crossbows from anything. Most crossbow customers were folks with physical limitations, great people, mostly long time sportsmen doing the best they could. There is no reason to exclude them from the woods at any time.

From: BIG BEAR
06-Jul-18
Technology is pushing the effective range of compounds out to 100 yards..... More advanced sites.....

No one could accurately shoot a compound at 100 yards in the 80s. Shooters haven’t improved.... the equipment has.....

The next generation of gadgets like slider sites will push the limits to 150 yards......

06-Jul-18
It is already over, many former great bowhunting states have full inclusion. Bowhunting will never again be what it was meant to be, those days are gone and so is the associated culture of hunting the hard way.

From: Woods Walker
06-Jul-18
IMO what limits a bow's range (ANY bow), is the arrow itself. An arrow is NOT a bullet. The physics involved are completely different in regards to how they kill. If an arrow has to go through bone or any other non-vital part of the animal before it gets to the vitals it will more than likely NOT be an quick, fatal, shot. With a bullet/slug it's not an issue. Going through a front shoulder to get to the heart/lungs is a common firearm shot and MANY deer have been taken with such a shot. Making a shot like that with a bow is most likely a lost animal. Not good.

Sooo......the tricky part about using a bow is SHOT PLACEMENT. It MUST be precise. Not only must you be able to pick a hair out in the exact place you want that arrow to enter the animal, you must also know the angle that is being presented to you. The further the distance (especially in cover) the more difficult this becomes.

Combine this with the reality that in spite of how fast today's compounds and crossbows are, a deer can STILL move at the shot and make what should have been a vital hit into a wound. The further you shoot the higher the odds are of this. These factors, IMO, is what makes a bow....ANY bow....a short range weapon.

Yes, many archers can and do hit targets at long ranges. I shoot a stickbow and PRACTICE at 80+ yards. I have no intent of taking a shot at a live animal at that range but it's good for form work.

06-Jul-18
I like make a point I only shoot snowshoe hares at ranges up 125 yards ,We limit big game at 50 yards with heavy arrows and ordinal Bear one piece broad heads my 10 year daughter killed nice Sitka Blacktail Deer with Gearheads new take down crossbow, I did post on Stick Bow around 1995 -2000 under joelongbow I lived in Maryland than and two older gents made the best longbows 21st Century Longbows I believe they both are up in heavens happy hunting grounds now,

06-Jul-18
haven't had one of these threads in a while......

From: PECO
06-Jul-18
"and the animal still being there when it arrives" I've said it many times here. I don't care how good of a shot you are at stationary targets. If you can hit dimes all day at 300 yards, great, that does not mean you should be shooting at nonstationary targets, (and the animal still being there when it arrives) at 100 yards.

From: PECO
06-Jul-18
Crossbows for injured people only in the general archery season. Huge difference between a hand held, hand drawn bow, which is drawn and held by your own muscle when the animal arrives, huge difference between that and cocking a gun with a device which provides a mechanical advantage, then string is held in place mechanically, and does not need to be drawn when animal arrives. Huge difference between a hand held vertical bow and a shoulder fired crossgun.

From: PECO
06-Jul-18
I did have a crossbow, used it in Michigan, hated it, donated it. I'll not have another, when my shoulders give out, I'll use a muzzle loader or rifle hunt.

06-Jul-18
Private Reply

Crossbows for injured people only in the general archery season. Huge difference between a hand held, hand drawn bow, which is drawn and held by your own muscle when the animal arrives, huge difference between that and cocking a gun with a device which provides a mechanical advantage, then string is held in place mechanically, and does not need to be drawn when animal arrives. Huge difference between a hand held vertical bow and a shoulder fired crossgun.

Alaska requires a 3 day safety crossbow course ,shot placement, broad heads that are legal in Alaska, limited range of crossbows ,ended with shooting at 10,20,30 yards ,three arrows at each range =all 3 shots must be in kill zone or you fail the test. Crossbows in Alaska hunting only in firearms season. I like make a point I only shoot snowshoe hares at ranges up 125 yards ,We limit big game at 50 yards with heavy arrows and ordinal Bear one piece broad heads my 10 year daughter killed nice Sitka Blacktail Deer with Gearheads new take down crossbow, I did post on Stick Bow around 1995 -2000 under joelongbow I lived in Maryland than and two older gents made the best longbows 21st Century Longbows I believe they both are up in heavens happy hunting grounds now,

From: lawdy
06-Jul-18
One decent buck a year feeds my wife and I. I get 3 tags as a bowhunter here. My wife gets 3 too. I love tracking and poking around, along with hiding in blowdowns or brush blinds. The longbow I use now, a Meigs #46, since 1985, is very light and easy to carry. All my shots are under 10 yards so accuracy is not a big issue. I live surrounded by huge timberlands and never see another hunter as our deer density is extremely low. That enables me to find a buck and key on him unpressured even during rifle season. My coaching wipes out early bow season for me so I wait for snow. Lucky where I live.

06-Jul-18
Crossbows aren't the awkward weapons they were 10 years ago. They are rapidly changing and will be even lighter and more carry-friendly in a few years. already 6" wide and lighter than the scoped rifle most guys hunt with. Glad you had some success rockstar. Did you mean Winchester 1895? Never seen a 1995 model. 338-06 is a neat round. If I ever can't pull a bow, lever guns, roundball muzzleloaders and handguns will be how I spend most of my time big game hunting. I have no issue with crossbows but in my State they wouldn't help with any of the major issues we battle with regards to bow season. We have triple the number of hunters from when I started, huge competition for decent tags, land access is getting harder and more expensive and there is a lot of competition for available days in the fall with new rifle seasons being added during archery.

Yes Did you mean Winchester 1895? . 338-06 A custom job with custom barrel I believe 28 inches ,great gun 3/4 inch groups with 200 grain noslers

From: Brotsky
06-Jul-18
I'm glad this is in the community forum, definitely has no place on the bowhunting pages.

06-Jul-18
most people got over this whole thing a decade or more ago. They have had them in archery season for a long time where I live. Zero impact.

From: Zim1
06-Jul-18

Zim1's Link
I have no problem with crossguns, as long as they are used in the gun season or by handicapped. What I do have a problem with is politicians filling their pockets with special interest group coin, playing wildlife manager with zero wildlife education. Much less tax money paying for moron politicians who think hunting has anything to do with the 2nd amendment. What an idiot.

06-Jul-18

RockStarArcherytalk's embedded Photo
RockStarArcherytalk's embedded Photo
like I said when I posted on Trad side here in late 1990S when I hunted with 21st century longbow /and bear blacktail compound ,with old age I want keep bow hunting and yes a crossbow is a bow .I let the voters/AKGame dept determine hunting seasons I just follow the game laws ---20 years ago blackpower rifles 100 yards was the limit no more now some tricked out blackpower rifles are able make clean kills to 300 yards --Know your limits of weapon you hunt with------

From: K Cummings
06-Jul-18
"Technology is pushing the effective range of compounds out to 100 yards..... More advanced sites..... No one could accurately shoot a compound at 100 yards in the 80s"

I hate to tell you this BB, but people have been accurately shooting recurves at those distances for decades.

Having said that, nobody in their right mind would ever shoot an arrow at a live animal at that distance, regardless of the bow. That isn't likely to ever change unless and until arrows start traveling at 2000+ fps.

KPC

KPC

From: Dirk Diggler
06-Jul-18
The trouble is there are plenty not in their right mind. I dont think 1000yd rifle shots on game are taken by the right minded either but there's plenty of vids of them pokin and hopin.

From: BIG BEAR
06-Jul-18
Were you paying attention when I said Levi Morgan shot a bull moose at 88 yards with a compound ??? It’s becoming commonplace to shoot at animals with a bow from 80-100 yards... The more guys like Levi Morgan and Cam Hanes are airing shows showing they are proficient killers at those ranges.... The more guys will copy cat them.....

Show me anyone who’s consistently hitting a pie plate at 90 yards with a recurve.... Let alone shooting game out to that range.......

From: BIG BEAR
06-Jul-18
Good point Rockstar...... Technology is also pushing the effective range of muzzleloaders well out past what it used to be..... what is the point of having a separate black powder season with muzzleloaders that are scoped and as accurate as any other rifle......???

Another aspect of this weapon of choice debate is CWD........... Here in Michigan..... our DNR isn’t going to give a damned what weapon you use to kill deer with in the CWD zones (which is rapidly growing)...... They’re simply going to attempt to eradicate as many deer as possible in those areas..... They’re opening early rifle seasons to do just that.

From: Feedjake
06-Jul-18

Feedjake's embedded Photo
Feedjake's embedded Photo
Would any of you guys who think crossbows are guns care to explain what they were for the hundreds if not thousands of years before guns were invented? They have definitely been modernized same as compounds but THEY ARE THEIR OWN THING! Here's a picture of a reproduction 12th century hunting crossbow. These things aren't new inventions. They had stocks and triggers and were shoulder fired before guns existed. I'm not arguing for including them in archery season, I think the state biologists should be in charge of managing take, but the total bs about them being guns is flat ridiculous.

From: Dirk Diggler
06-Jul-18
Reread my post B squared. I read your post, you're ok. I'll be sure to include you in my future posts.

06-Jul-18
I have met hunters in Colorado that practically brag about their lack of ethics and the 80 and 100 yard shot.

From: BIG BEAR
06-Jul-18
My post was in response to KPC Dirk..... sorry for the confusion.... I agree with you on long range rifles..... Gunwerks sells rifles that are advertised as accurate at 1000 yards out of the box. They have shows on TV like long range pursuit where they intentionally look for long range kill shots in order to sell guns.....

From: Shuteye
06-Jul-18
I have killed deer with about every legal weapon. Long bow, recurve, compound, crossbow, rifles, shotguns, many kinds of handguns, ie. .44 mag, 357 mag and .460 mag. New new favorite weapon that I mainly hunt with now is a .50 cal, single shot muzzle loading pistol. I use 100 grains of black powder and a 300 grain bullet. It puts the bullet all the way through deer. I love to get close, like 10 yards if possible even with the .460 and it will nail a deer at over 200 yards. I can start deer hunting the first of September and go all the way to the end of January. The limit for deer is huge, almost unlimited for does. I donate some and put a couple in my freezer but have cut way back on the number I kill now. My neighbor says kill all the damn deer you can since they eat acres of his soybeans. Maryland and Delaware have deer up to the gazootie.

From: Dirk Diggler
06-Jul-18
My bad B squared.

06-Jul-18

RockStarArcherytalk's embedded Photo
RockStarArcherytalk's embedded Photo
For a taste of a sweet shooting crossbow with the best trigger Gear Heads Take Down

The X16 Tactical is yet another new design from Gearhead Archery in 2018! The Gearhead team stepped it up, yet again. This crossbow is packable and is of a take down design. The X16 Tactical has a precision dovetail joint with a robust clamping mechanism. This allows the X16 Tactical to be assembled in the field without sacrificing accuracy. Just slide the two halves together to the alignment stop and cam clamp into place. The footprint and pecs of this crossbow are the same as the X16. It is built with the Trigger Tech trigger box and Firenock Aerorest. The X16 Tactical crossbow is the first of its kind. It is superior in accuracy, breaks down and fits in a field pack, all in just a few minutes. No more challenging transportation of your crossbow. Gearhead Archery makes it easy with the X16 Tactical!

Weight: 5.25 lbs

* Custom Pack included.

* Scope not included at base price.

Rethinking Tradition Innovations:

1) Patent Pending IFU or index feather up technology alleviates power cable wear by flipping the arrow index feather up and drastically reducing the vanes clearance needed increasing speed and accuracy. Traditionally all other crossbows place index feather down with a rear arrow hold down, requiring the power cables to be pulled down significantly creating cable wear, cam lean, diminished accuracy, and reduced performance.

2) Patent Pending PSP parallel stock plate technology, the stock on the X16 is 90% air and the rest is carbon fiber plates spaced apart and tapered at the attachment point of the bow to create an extremely accurate and lightweight stock platform. The stock and riser have integrated vibration sound suppression free floating between and within the stock making the X16 the quietest crossbow ever.

3) The accuracy of the X16 is unmatched by using a standard nocked arrow that is simultaneously guided with a forward whisker biscuit and an arrow barrel guide the X16 delivers rifle like performance.

4) The X16 has the same power stroke as our T18 series bows and shoots standard arrows with available poundage's of 75, 90 and 125 pound. At 125lbs the X16 delivers arrows at speeds of 350 fps.

5) The X16 does not require a foot stirrup to cock or a rope cocker and simply put is a joy to shoot. This crossbow can be cocked in a tree stand, blind, or sitting down with ease. A rope cocker slot and foot stirrup are provided and cocking the X16 is effortless enough for most anyone to cock.

6) The X16 uses a fully machined billet trigger with dual sealed bearing for precise movement and an adjustable creep and pull.

7) The X16 is a fully machined crossbow with wood inlay grips and built like a finely crafted rifle.

Specifications

• Overall Length: 35" ATA cocked/uncocked: 14.75"/18.5" • Power stroke: 16" • Weight Carbon: 5.0 lb without accessories • Weight Aluminum: 6.0 lb without accessories • Accessories: Rail and Sling Mounts • Speeds: Up to 350 fps at 125lbs • Trigger Latch: Anti-drive fire and bearing trigger • Trigger Pull: 2.1 lb • Pound Pull: 75,90 and 125lb • Dampening: Sound dampening riser and stock • Black oxide coated stainless steel hardware • Two track cam system licensed under US patent 7,997,259 • Additional patents pending

From: Dirk Diggler
06-Jul-18
I suspect this is much the same argument that took place when compound bows first hit the scene, minus millions of participants and social media.

06-Jul-18
we pretty much don't recognize crossbows as archery here....but I also know some skeet shooters that don't recognize trap as the skill it is either.

06-Jul-18
I had people dam me in 1997 for shooting a 21st century longbow because my model had a carbon fiber strip sandwiched in the middle limbs outer wood vendor's .They said it was not a longbow . Those 21st century longbows were sweet drawing and fast --- I like buy a pristine used one for my kid brother---#45-#50

From: BowSniper
06-Jul-18
Personally, I like the idea of crossbows in the early muzzle loader season, AFTER early season archery and before modern guns empty the woods out.

Handy tool to have in areas where firearms are not allowed. Those Scorpyd (sp?) crossbows look pretty darn impressive!!

Where does the Benjamin arrow blasting air bow gun fit ????

06-Jul-18
how do you know when someone sends a private message to your inbox here ???

From: Dirk Diggler
06-Jul-18
Click on the three bars in the upper left corner. Then click on my bowsite

06-Jul-18
Thank u

From: sleepyhunter
06-Jul-18
Checked out Gearhead archery website, very impressive Compounds and Crossbows. Never heard of them before this thread. I especially like the compounds.

Thanks

From: Feedjake
06-Jul-18
Bowsniper. The "Airbow" is very simple to place. It's an airgun that shoots an arrow. It's not the first of its kind, its just the first that tried to pretend its a bow. There's nothing bow about it. With their argument one could shoot a lead bullet out of a slingshot and call it a highpowered rifle because it just shot a rifle bullet.

06-Jul-18
Ask for Skip @Gearhead tell him Joe Conover from Sitka Alaska told you about his bows ,, A large bow shop in Anchorage Ak sells Gearheads Compounds and Crossbows they come in shop and gone next day .Also Kodabow Recurve Crossbow from PA toughest crossbow on planet-Chuck the owner made by retired Navy Veterans they know me well .I am pretty much famous up in Alaska and Archery Talk Crossbow just say rockstarjoe and wait for my friends asking for me on AT/CT,I have no money ties or agenda with these companies just good people trying make an honest living --There always going be haters of crossbows or any weapon trying please there friends be one of the boys-I always take high road just trying help my fellow hunters.

From: Woods Walker
06-Jul-18
"CrossGUN".....as soon as someone posts this BS (and that's what it is....) the rest of their argument goes out the window.

Yes, a crossbow is different from a compound bow, and a compound bow is WAY different than a stickbow. But it's NOT a "gun". It shoots an arrow that kills by shock via blood loss, that was propelled by energy stored in drawn limbs. THAT is a bow. There were no explosions of any sort, other than maybe the fart made by the person holding the bow.

Why not stick to FACTS, and then maybe the rest of your argument may have some credence.

From: JTV
06-Jul-18

JTV's embedded Photo
JTV's embedded Photo
I thought you were staying out of this WW (I'm back in now)......... Forearm, Monte Carlo cheek piece, 3x9x40 scope w/ weaver scope mounts, adjustable trigger, Shoulder held, recoil pad/butt piece, sling swivel studs, etc. .... these things aint archery as a vertical hand held hand drawn/hand held bow is ... I'll stick with my VERTICAL BOW .... piss on crossguns !! ... yea, I said it and I mean it if used in ARCHERY/vertical BOW seasons... unless one is a true handicap

From: BIG BEAR
06-Jul-18
They have vertical crossbows now if that’s your hang up........ :-)

From: JTV
06-Jul-18
'its still a crossgun .... I'll look down my nose at anyone uses a crossgun in a archery/BOW season where one can use a legitimate hand drawn/hand held vertical bow that is not an honest handicapped hunter ..... Ive stopped gun hunting over 7-8 years back for ungulates and BOW hunt only, even thru gun season.. its way more challenging and rewarding ...

From: BIG BEAR
06-Jul-18
It’s way more challenging to use a recurve than a compound...... way way more challenging....

From: Feedjake
06-Jul-18
Um JTV I’m waiting to hear what the crossbows were back before guns were invented?! Just think of all the trad guys looking down their nose at you for using a bow with “training wheels” and you’ll see how petty it makes you sound.

From: Feedjake
06-Jul-18
Oh and the Ravin ad is about as logical as an “Airbow” ad. I’d get my definitions from dictionary’s not advertisements.

From: JTV
06-Jul-18
I can and have used both Traditional and Compound... both are hand drawn/hand held and neither are shoulder held and fired .. unlike a crossbow ... btw, I like petty at times ... aint gonna change my mind one bit about the damn things...

From: sleepyhunter
06-Jul-18
I'm a trad guy first. I do have a Mathews compound but rarely shoot it. In fact I've never taken it hunting. Blacktail Snakebit and my Blackwidow recurves are my pig sticker hunting bows.

06-Jul-18
JTV @62 and I can longer pull a compound back or longbow to shoot good enough make a clean kill so in comes my crossbow ,Compounds most guys use a release with a trigger only thing different is frame holds the limbs is now held at shoulder not vert ,both bows are hand held by your hand ,an both have arrows and both have limbs ,I am not handicapped just guy old guy that likes bow hunting better than gun hunting, Crossbow is a bow

From: K Cummings
06-Jul-18
"I'll look down my nose at anyone uses a crossgun in a archery/BOW season where one can use a legitimate hand drawn/hand held vertical bow that is not an honest handicapped hunter ..... Ive stopped gun hunting over 7-8 years back for ungulates and BOW hunt only, even thru gun season.. its way more challenging and rewarding ..."

Dang, if a person was so inclined, this would be a perfect opportunity to post a moronic picture of a bird high on a perch.

Oh the irony...

KPC

From: JTV
06-Jul-18
At 60 I still run 5k/10k and half marathons, 41 years of running, dont drink/dont smoke, knees are fine as are my shoulders .. I also eat right ... I'm am sorry your health has left you ... I am also sorry folks like you/others dont get it .... I hate saying sorry, as it is a sign of weakness .. maybe condolence or remorseful is better ... dont call yourself a BOWhunter/archer, crossbow shooter/crossbow hunter is more appropriate maybe .....

06-Jul-18
At 60 I still run 5k/10k and half marathons... I'm am sorry your health has left you ... I am also sorry folks like you dont get it .... I hate saying sorry, as it is a sign of weakness .. maybe condolence or remorseful is better ... dont call yourself a BOWhunter/archer, crossbow shooter/crossbow hunter is more appropriate maybe

My friend I am a bow hunter just like as much when I was 12 with Bear Kodak difference I don't force my words, weapons and ideas on others ,I walk 5 miles a day ,have sex just as much and fart a little more but I am still just as much as man as anyone here. ... jtv said == maybe condolence or remorseful is better === really JTV -that is rudest shameful, hurtfully comment anyone every said too me,, ,

From: JTV
06-Jul-18
KPC... GPS ... simply put ...

From: JTV
06-Jul-18
RSAT.. again sorry your forced to use 'em ... BTW, welcome to the CF ... maybe I should have left the Stop sign up ... my mistake .. carry on ......... I'll be kinder to you in the future... I promise ...

From: Woods Walker
06-Jul-18
I can fully understand you not liking them. But they are NOT a firearm. Let's deal in reality.

06-Jul-18
JTV-I am not mad at you I don't know your life history perhaps you were sexually abused by a crossbow when you were a kid ,,

From: Woods Walker
06-Jul-18
I picked up a crossbow once at Cabela's......it made me want to rape and kill...... ;-)

From: JTV
06-Jul-18

so there ........

From: lawdy
06-Jul-18
As long as guns stay out of bow season, I don't care what bow you use. Being quiet, playing the wind, getting close, knowing how to interpret tracks and cut off a buck will beat any tech advantage. When you deer and bear hunt with the same longbow from 1985 to the present, you develop tremendous faith in it. Having something with a sight that can getting hit while chasing a buck in these woods is not an advantage to my way of thinking. In our woods, I will put a trad bow, hunting from the ground, often shooting extremely fast, against any modern bow or crossbow. Therefore, I could care less what you use because I feel the longbow is superior for a groundhunter. Quiet, light, quick to shoot and deadly.

From: trublucolo
06-Jul-18
lmao.......

From: BIG BEAR
06-Jul-18
Rockstar...... If you ever make it to the UP of Michigan you are welcome to hunt my land with a crossbow.... I hunt with a compound.... and have tried and missed with my recurves..... I own a crossbow but I have never hunted with it...... it’s for my kids....

From: K Cummings
07-Jul-18
"Let's deal in reality."

That's a big ask for some WW.

I never quite understood how the weapon someone else uses affects my hunting experience with the weapon I choose. It's akin to looking down ones nose at someone for wearing boxers when I choose to wear briefs.

At the end of the day, I think it's about one thing for some. The fear that someone might somehow have a better chance at killing the buck they think they deserve.

KPC

07-Jul-18
Bowhunters hunt with bows, crossbow hunters hunt with crossbows. I believe most families on this forum own crossbows. Many will not admit it, and of course when some do the scoped crossbow is for the wife, children or ailing grandfather. Just the culture we live in.

Bowhunting will continue to contract, crossbow hunting will continue to expand. The golden days for REAL bowhunting are in the past. Join Comptons today, the small minority who hunt the hard way.

From: Bou'bound
07-Jul-18
where do you guys find the time...............or inclination for that matter

07-Jul-18
Well said, Lawdy!

From: K Cummings
07-Jul-18
Missouribreaks:

I can't speak for anyone else but I don't own a crossbow, I've never owned a crossbow, nor do I have any desire whatsoever to shoot or own a crossbow. Same can be said for anyone in my family.

For me, it's simply a matter of looking at the situation realistically and unemotionally.

Some people see hunting, or any of their recreational endeavors, as well as the tools they they choose to use in those endeavors as an extension of their very being. It's not something they do, it's literally who they are. It's part of their ego.

The reality is, we (hunters) are all just a part of the way game departments manage game numbers, for the benefit of the resource itself, the habitat in which they live, and the society that they share it with. That's it.

Simply put, on a macro level, a certain number of deer (elk, bear, hogs, etc.) need to be killed every year in order to meet those objectives. The tool that kills them is irrelevant in terms of the goal itself, the weapon only matters to the person doing the killing and what they want their personal hunting experience to be. Hunters are the "tools" that game departments use to reach their objectives. The weapon is the secondary "tool" that the hunter uses.

Some people use a framing hammer and some people use a pneumatic framing nailer. If I'm building a shed and I choose to use a framing hammer I am in no way threatened or bothered by the fact that my neighbor uses a pneumatic nailer to build his shed. As long as we both have a permit, we don't endanger each other, and both following the law, what possible difference could it make?

KPC

From: lawdy
07-Jul-18
This thread has been fun but we all live in different environments. Some live where you can shoot a deer hundreds of yards away. Up here, 50 yards is a long shot with a rifle. Some live where you hunt little patches of woods and have no trespassing signs everywhere. Some live where deer are thick and some , like myself, live where the deer density is 1 per square mile. It's easier to kill a bear up here than a deer. Therefore, the weapon you use makes a big difference, or not, depending on the area. Jim Zumbo came up here to our village to hunt deer and write a story. He never set eyes on a deer and asked how we get a deer up here. I told him you find a track and follow it and hope the deer makes a mistake. He didn't get a deer and never came back. Carry on gentlemen.

07-Jul-18
I agree KPC,........ bowhunters use a bow, crossbow hunters use a crossbow. They are two different concepts and types of hunting.

Point creep is however very real with many species out here in the west, ( and bears, moose etc in the east ). Anything we do to increase the harvest percentage of these animals will result in longer periods for the license draw. Decreased opportunity for the individual hunters, but no impact on game managers as license numbers are adjusted to meet harvest expectations..... which are partly based on the efficiency of weapons used. Crossbows for all hunters in archery seasons here in Montana, Colorado etc would be a real game changer for the elk, deer, sheep, goat and antelope permitting process, already on a limited draw or quota, sometimes very limited. Farmland elk, deer and antelope would be very easy with a scoped crossbow.

I realize many of you have a mid western whitetail mentality..... but sometimes one has to look at the greater picture.

07-Jul-18
Well, thanks for clearing things up. This will probably put and end to these types of threads!

From: jjs
07-Jul-18
Using anything but fingers on the string is not a bow, how simple is that to understand.

07-Jul-18
As I seize from greener pasture Forgive me for taking away nature lives have always been in vain stopping them from breathing with pain I toil never to hold my gun ,crossbow ,longbow with tears full of fun The sleepless night became difficult Because hunting was my cult I regret taking away this joy of hunting But not jolliness of killing remembering the beautiful butterfly and the choral singing of birds pass by I never forget about the forest even when I went to rest

07-Jul-18

From: lawdy

07-Jul-18

Private Reply

This thread has been fun but we all live in different environments. Some live where you can shoot a deer hundreds of yards away. Up here, 50 yards is a long shot with a rifle. Some live where you hunt little patches of woods and have no trespassing signs everywhere. Some live where deer are thick and some , like myself, live where the deer density is 1 per square mile. It's easier to kill a bear up here than a deer. Therefore, the weapon you use makes a big difference, or not, depending on the area. Jim Zumbo came up here to our village to hunt deer and write a story. He never set eyes on a deer and asked how we get a deer up here. I told him you find a track and follow it and hope the deer makes a mistake. He didn't get a deer and never came back. Carry on gentlemen.

Thank you I has been fun, Plus this thread helping some get over "their" life time fear of Crossbows ,,Keep up good work and comments,

Joe

From: sleepyhunter
07-Jul-18
"" I could care less what you use because I feel the longbow is superior for a groundhunter. Quiet, light, quick to shoot and deadly. ""

Now you've done it. I want a Longbow now.

From: K Cummings
07-Jul-18
MB:

I can only speak to what I know, so I will defer to you when it comes to your area and your experience.

Game departments keep adding seasons, weapons and methods until their goals are met. Even so, in many places they still can't (or won't, in the case of many hunters) kill enough animals to properly manage the resource.

I can only assume that if the resource can't support crossbows in the bow season, it won't be allowed. At least that's the way it should be if they are doing their jobs correctly.

The only point I was trying to make is that within the framework of those goals, the fact that the guy on the neighboring property is sitting in his stand with a crossbow has no effect whatsoever on me sitting in my treestand with my recurve...unless of course I'm concerned that he will somehow have an advantage over me when "my" big buck walks in front of him.

KPC

From: lawdy
07-Jul-18
Thanks Rockstararcherytalk, enjoy this coming fall. Right now the wife and I are loading the camper up for our annual Newfy trip. The salmon are running. Take care. Bob

07-Jul-18
Fear is germ that gets passed from one person to next, I remember 1979 when I when I brought my dad a wing compound with 30% left off with paper rout money ,boy did that bow get the evil eyes at the bow range. Next was comments that dam wheel bow going wipe out our deer herd in 5 years ,its not a bow compound doesn't belongs in my bow season ,

History always repeats now 2018s that crossbow going wipe out our deer herd in 5 years ,its a crossbow it is not a bow doesn't belong in my bow season . Fear& Jealousness =,unless of course I'm concerned that he(crossbow-guy) will somehow have an advantage over me when "my" big buck walks in front of him. (Fear)

07-Jul-18
Is 21st Century longbows still in business?

From: lawdy
07-Jul-18

07-Jul-18
Crossbows will have little effect on animal populations, especially whitetail deer. They will however lead to a continued decline in the use of bows, and therefore bowhunting and the associated culture. If legalized in many states during general archery seasons, modern scoped crossbows will lead to decreased bowhunter opportunity with many species, this via point creep, shorter seasons, and faster quota filling.

Not the end of anything, just a loss for bowhunters, bowhunting and bowhunting culture. Scoped crossbow use will continue to increase, as will scoped crossbow hunting, and scoped crossbow culture.

Remember, if you use a modern scoped crossbow you are not a bowhunter, you are a scoped crossbow hunter. Nothing wrong with that.

From: Woods Walker
07-Jul-18
The same was said about compounds...or is it compguns? They were wrong on that too.

07-Jul-18

From: BIG BEAR

06-Jul-18

Private Reply Big Bear

Rockstar...... If you ever make it to the UP of Michigan you are welcome to hunt my land with a crossbow.... I hunt with a compound.... and have tried and missed with my recurves..... I own a crossbow but I have never hunted with it...... it’s for my kids....

Thanks I work 2 weeks than off 2 weeks how most us work up oil fields in Alaska I miss whitetail hunting all we have is Blactail Sitka deer on 100s islands near Sitka Ak ,not much sport they aren't hunted and when you land a small boat the whole herd walks over to see what u are some a few feet away till you shoot 3 or 4 with crossbow or other type bow or 243 -I carry 45/70 for bear chargers - than they hop 50 yards and stand there again.lol

Anyone can hunt with me free and stay on my island house-wife good cook - you need be able ride in a boat a few hours and help put up a wall tent, Aug 15-Dec 31 is Blacktail ,Brown Bear long season but im only one that can shoot one in lest u pay a guide 100 dollars go with us,Brown bear like rats we don't hunt them at all. Deer all over too. Bear steal a few deer from us now and than.

07-Jul-18

RockStarArcherytalk's embedded Photo
RockStarArcherytalk's embedded Photo
Wife good at gutting and skinning deer she don't hunt but enjoys cooking and keeping camp clean ,she a part time model for Penn Reel and Rods Bring you wife and girl friend with you she can help April around camp, they can both keep each other company in tent at night too -talk Girl talk -

From: Joey Ward
07-Jul-18
Nice triple tail. Good eatin’!

From: trublucolo
07-Jul-18
"Well, thanks for clearing things up. This will probably put and end to these types of threads! "

HfW, If I didn't know better I would have almost taken that as sarcasm or a stab at humor ;-)

07-Jul-18
Jay Ward said=Nice triple tail. Good eatin’!

Thank You ! April I believe was in Tampa Florida for that photo shoot ,,,,,,

April liking the Kodabow Scout recurve crossbow with AR15 Type receiver with Recurve limbs for Moose ,she like 257 Weatherby and 240 Weatherby for Blacktails . She not into longbows or Recurves she kinda of scared gettin hurt with string,

From: Bownarrow
07-Jul-18
RockStar: As long as it's legal in your state or Province I congratulate you on your archery kills with a crossbow. Thankfully for me I am a healthy 52 year old who can still shoot a recurve and compound bow. But I know how quickly that can change. I'm not sure if you come to the CF often but this is a place where people have strong opinions and are convinced they are right-but you are old enough to have seen that before. I say welcome to the forum and post some kills when you get them.

From: tonyo6302
07-Jul-18

tonyo6302's embedded Photo
tonyo6302's embedded Photo

From: JTV
07-Jul-18
That is a wonderful Pic there RSAT... when and where was it taken ...

07-Jul-18
First time here this forum I did post on leather-wall 1996-2000 when I shot longbows lived in Maryland worked than for Department of Defense as bubblehead testing Subs

From: JTV
07-Jul-18
I'm talking about the woman with the fish .... I did a lot of gulf coast fishing back in the day ...

07-Jul-18
JTV I believe Tampa Florida area sports trade show 2016 my wife went with her twin sister June I had work.

From: JTV
07-Jul-18
thanks ....

From: trublucolo
07-Jul-18
lol

From: JTV
07-Jul-18
see, told ya Tru .... oooopsie !! ......

From: trublucolo
07-Jul-18
kinda like a "scampering doe".

From: JTV
07-Jul-18
we shall see what we shall see ... stay tuned .....

08-Jul-18

RockStarArcherytalk's embedded Photo
RockStarArcherytalk's embedded Photo
bownarrow thank u

all my hunting pictures are on my 61 foot Viking home july 11 for two weeks r and r .. Joe in Alaska

From: PECO
08-Jul-18
"I have met hunters in Colorado that practically brag about their lack of ethics and the 80 and 100 yard shot." Bet they were nonresidents also bragging about putting an arrow up the animals butt. aka the Texas heart shot.

From: PECO
08-Jul-18
RockStar, what does your wife and boat have to do with this discussion on crossguns? Crossguns are guns and don't belong in the general archery season. It was said best above, "fingers on the string" or it isn't a bow.

From: K Cummings
08-Jul-18
Tonyo:

As my daughter would say....

”I know, right”

KPC

From: K Cummings
08-Jul-18
“It was said best above, "fingers on the string" or it isn't a bow.”

Wow, I guess that eliminates a few million compound shooters.

KPC

08-Jul-18
PECO said=RockStar, what does your wife and boat have to do with this discussion on crossguns? Crossguns are guns and don't belong in the general archery season. It was said best above, "fingers on the string" or it isn't a bow. ----------- ============ She hunter just as I am she only hunts Moose at our Cabin in Kasilof near Homer Alaska ,she prefers Kodabow Scout =recurve crossbow but new Gear Head take down crossbow getting her heart, Alaska puts crossbows with Rifle gun season and makes everyone take a shooting course test and written test, The boat our mobile hunting camp in Sitka Alaska and second home -We both work hard to live Lifes Dreams in Alaska, Hunting just our family's thing my mother hunted till she was 84 ,yes with crossbow but in New Jersey were crossbows are part of bow hunting season I NOT pushing my views down anyone belly nor pushing CROSSBOWS - Nor am I personally damming or making smart remarks why -was raised take HIGH ROAD, Let each State vote on were crossbows belong -The Needs of The Many out Weight the Needs of The Few-

From: K Cummings
08-Jul-18

K Cummings's embedded Photo
K Cummings's embedded Photo
“Crossguns are guns and don't belong in the general archery season.”

Come on guys, let’s get real.

KPC

08-Jul-18
I prefer the term "string gun" ;)

08-Jul-18
This getting like Democrats pushing - one world order -Do as I want you live not how you want live- ..LMAO Just get out there and vote and contact your game Dept - Crying here what good does it do ,,,,but hurt all hunters and turn off your pre hunters to take up living on iphone screen -we need kids out in great outdoors ,,,

From: K Cummings
08-Jul-18
RSAt:

“Just get out there and vote and contact your game Dept”

I have a better idea. How about letting the game depts manage game and hunt however you choose, within the law, and not worry about what the guy on the next property is doing as long as he’s doing the same.

KPC

From: PECO
08-Jul-18
RSAT "I NOT pushing my views down anyone belly nor pushing CROSSBOWS" yeah, you kinda are.

From: PECO
08-Jul-18
double post

08-Jul-18
I would give it up guys,...... many on here are obviously closet crossbow users, promoters, and enablers.

08-Jul-18
The Fear of Crossbows is not new to 21st Century-

Tonio Andrade, in his book The Gunpowder Age, makes the argument that the Chinese were the first to implement volley fire with firearms and this tradition evolved from one initially pioneered with crossbows long before before the English Longbow was invented .

He mentions that the first evidence of volley fire goes back to the Warring States period of China (475 - 221 BCE) and developed with subsequent Chinese dynasties. One example laid out is that of a manual produced by the martial artist, Cheng Chongdou which envisions crossbowmen being divided into three teams of hundred and that they follow the procedure below:

The first hundred of them have already loaded their arrows and are already arrayed together in the front. They are labeled "shooting crossbows" [he is referencing a diagram of the procedure accompanying the text]. The next hundred crosssbowmen have also already loaded their arrows, but they are arrayed together in the next row and are labeled "advancing crossbows." Finally, the last hundred men are arrayed behind them, in [the third and] last row. They are loading their crossbows...The first hundred men...shoot. After they are done they retire to the rear, at which the second hundred men...move to the fore and themselves become "shooting crossbows." The rear hundred men...move forward and become the "advancing crossbows"...And in this way they revolve and take turns firing a constant stream, and the crossbows sound without cease. " The Cross bowers were feared and also respected as the Crossbow army invented the first Gorilla Tactics known to man:

Cheng Chongdou notes the antiquity of this technique as he prefaces his description of the above process by mentioning how, "the ancients used ten thousand crossbows shooting in concert to win victories over enemies." Professor Andrade also quotes examples from the earlier Tang and Song dynasties which also envision groups of crossbowmen performing a countermarch, where the front ranks would fire and retreat to reload while being replaced by fresh crossbowmen from the back.

It should also be noted that in the Chinese case, there were no troops such as pikemen to protect the crossbowmen. They were expected to "plant their legs like mountains" and put out a concentrated stream of arrows to stymie any advance against them.

In short, the Chinese did develop firearms style tactics with crossbows (though it should be mentioned that Ming military thinkers like Qi Jiguang probably adapted pre-existing crossbow volley tactics for firearms).

From: JTV
08-Jul-18
Missouri.... nah, the truth IS out there ............. DRIP DRIP DRIP ..

08-Jul-18
Guys you want me stay here and post or leave- lots Alaskan adventures with pictures, Yes some crossbow kills and rifle with a few friends with compounds also- Alaska no matter what fake TV hunting shows say Alaska is not a State of longbow and Recurve hunters plus all are carrying 454 handguns as back up - to dam many things that want kill you and eat you... I'm not posting on Leatherwall its a everything goes place to post here, Kinda always the same members trying to make crossbows look like an evil hunting tool ;;

08-Jul-18
Crossbows are not an evil hunting tool. Bowhunters however use bows, crossbow hunters use crossbows, gun hunters use guns.

Bowhunter numbers are on a decline in the US, and crossbow hunters are on an increase. Bowhunting is therefore on a decline, while crossbow hunting is increasing. Do not confuse the two.

08-Jul-18
So States like New Jersey and about 38 others were Crossbows are Archery hunting weapons same season like longbows, compounds, recurves so what is to confuse ,When Mom called me up in Alaska ever year "Joe" make sure you come home for first week of Archery Season so we all can go Bow Hunting your brother needs help with putting up blinds, That is BOW hunting with family,,, wish Mom was a live reading this posts --boy would she be pissed-- by the way my brother uses Mission compound he a dealer .Mom used Crossbow some time I did too -We are a Bow Hunting Family

From: Dirk Diggler
08-Jul-18
They all turn into long cock contest after so long RSA. Stick around.

From: MK111
08-Jul-18
Just give up on trying to change their minds. Every type of hunting thinks the other type is all wrong. If you don't do it according to their way of thinking the it must be banned or give it a special season that doesn't interfer with their prime time to hunt. Closed mindset and in fighting is causing harm to all hunting.

08-Jul-18
Could just have one season , use any weapon, bow, crossbow or gun. Equal opportunity for all! That way, nobody has to be concerned about the what the neighbor across the fence is using, as long as it is legal....right? Is that what some are saying, "stop worrying about what the other hunter is using as long as it is legal".

From: K Cummings
08-Jul-18
"I would give it up guys,...... many on here are obviously closet crossbow users, promoters, and enablers."

That's not it at all MB, it just when some people are called on to support their unsupportable "facts", such as "crossguns are guns" or "using anything but fingers on the string is not a bow," etc., this is what conversations like these devolve into.

KPC

From: K Cummings
08-Jul-18
"Could just have one season , use any weapon, bow, crossbow or gun. Equal opportunity for all! That way, nobody has to be concerned about the what the neighbor across the fence is using, as long as it is legal....right?"

Wrong. There are different seasons for safety reasons.

Ironically, some of the people that are the first to scream that crossbows don't belong in gun season, are also the ones that say they hunt all through the gun seasons with their bows.

Apparently they don't mind being all lumped together.

KPC

From: Glunt@work
08-Jul-18

Glunt@work's embedded Photo
Glunt@work's embedded Photo
A crossbow is not a gun. Its also not a bow. Its a crossbow. Oddly, the pic above is a gun. :^)

From: Glunt@work
08-Jul-18

Glunt@work's embedded Photo
Glunt@work's embedded Photo
And this is also a gun

08-Jul-18
So what is a compound bow shooter called using release with trigger no fingers on the string lmao ,,,,,using anything but fingers on the string is not a bow,

From: PECO
08-Jul-18
There needs to be a line somewhere. OK, I give, I'll move my line to the other side of the air arrow shooter bow. If it sends an arrow via any means, it's a bow and belongs in the general bow season. We shall redefine a bow as something that sends an arrow, or a bolt.

From: Woods Walker
08-Jul-18
.....via energy stored in drawn limbs. If it uses air, gunpowder, or any explosive of any sort to create the energy then it's not a bow, even if you release it with your fingers.

Think about it.....the very name "BOW" refers to the bow or the arc made by the limb when it's flexed to create the energy to propel the arrow.

From: PECO
08-Jul-18
Not much bow shape to a beyond parallel bow or crossbow.

From: Glunt@work
08-Jul-18
I would rather bows be bows. If a State decides to include crossbows in archery season, it doesn't need to change what a bow is. If we include mortars in rifle season, it doesn't need to change what the definition of a rifle is, if we allow salmon spearing it doesn't need to change the definition of a fishing rod.

From: Woods Walker
08-Jul-18
"Not much bow shape to a beyond parallel bow or crossbow."

Or a compound bow either. Or is it comp-GUN? You don't hold all the weight, it has triggers and sights, and it doesn't "look" anything at all like a stickbow.

From: K Cummings
08-Jul-18

K Cummings's embedded Photo
K Cummings's embedded Photo
Glunt:

Yep, those are “guns,” in the same way this is a nuclear bomb.

By the way, if you want to use either of those “guns” during bow season, as far as I’m concerned you are more than welcome.

KPC

08-Jul-18
When the day comes that i have to use a string gun you can bet itll be the most advance satanic arrow shooting device available.

Until then ill continue to sit on my high perch looking down my nose at those who use advance technological equipement to exercise mankinds most primival instinct....

From: Woods Walker
08-Jul-18
If you really want to bitch about a tool that changed deer hunting and was responsible for more deer killed than just about anything else, then start with the portable tree stand.

From: trublucolo
08-Jul-18
https://americanmilitarynews.com/2018/07/video-watch-a-fully-automatic-diy-crossbow-in-action/?utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=alt&utm_source=goa

Someone say add some fuel to the fire......? ;-)

From: Dirk Diggler
08-Jul-18

Dirk Diggler's Link
This might help tru. This guy cracks me up! Seen his videos before.

From: Tonybear61
08-Jul-18
OK so its agreed then any weapon any season, right?

Since its fishing season in my part of the world will start netting, spearing, harpooning, trapping all the fish I can get, use any bait, hook combination cause after all I am the same as any one holding a rod and using one line. What do you think would happen to me once the DNR and local sporting association, lake association fellow fishermen find out? Especially if I tell them its none of their business what method I choose to use and where I use it??

Method of take does matter so stop pretending it doesn't. Crossbows, crossguns airbows are superior to anything launching an arrow held by hand. Only someone lying to themselves and this forum knows that. So if you are one of those people that want any and all methods at any time be honest , say so and lobby for it to change the game laws. See how far you get. If you lie about it and misrepresent the weapon used and method of take the truth will come about eventually, it always does. Then you loose your case.

Separate seasons, separate methods of take otherwise someone is always going to be unhappy and the resource will suffer.

From: K Cummings
09-Jul-18
"OK so its agreed then any weapon any season, right?"

"So if you are one of those people that want any and all methods at any time be honest , say so and lobby for it to change the game laws."

Wrong.

Nobody that I'm aware of, at least not o this thread, is advocating for that.

Why don't you "be honest" and point out where anyone on this thread has suggested that would be a good idea. A simple cut and paste would do just fine.

KPC

09-Jul-18
We already have that scenario in parts of the Midwest, and western states. There are rifle youth seasons, doe reduction rifle seasons, crossbow and bow dates all running concurrently, choose your weapon.

Parts of Montana have archery only seasons and archery units for elk and antelope. Scoped crossbows if legal for all, will lead to point creep and season length reduction. This will reduce opportunity for bowhunters. Just something to think about.

From: PECO
09-Jul-18
Really?

"Could just have one season , use any weapon, bow, crossbow or gun. Equal opportunity for all! That way, nobody has to be concerned about the what the neighbor across the fence is using, as long as it is legal....right?" Wrong. There are different seasons for safety reasons.

Ironically, some of the people that are the first to scream that crossbows don't belong in gun season, are also the ones that say they hunt all through the gun seasons with their bows.

Apparently they don't mind being all lumped together.

KPC"

From: PECO
09-Jul-18
Missouribreaks, the people that don't get it are the ones living in places where there is no draw, and you just go get a tag, and another, and another. I had one preference point going into the draw for deer this year and did not get an archery tag. I get an archery deer tag every 2 or 3 years for the area I live, and it's not a sought after trophy unit.

09-Jul-18
Not advocating one season, simply pointing out the idiocy of comments similar to.... " why worry about what everyone else is killing animals with, just do your thing on your side of the fence ". These type of comments are all over this and other forums, and lead to the type of discussions promoting one season, simply do your thing.

Like I stated before, many on here are secretly scoped crossbow shooters, promoters and enablers, posing as real bowhunters as defined by the P&Y Club.

From: K Cummings
09-Jul-18
"Really?"

Yes, really.

What part of my post do you disagree with?

KPC

09-Jul-18
Hunters are one step from being serial Killers BY: Elizabeth Warren So how do we explain hunting? How do we account for the fact that upwards of thirteen million people in the United States have gone hunting this year, if the numbers in 2011 are typical? Why do they do it? Hunters give an assortment of reasons. They say that they enjoy the outdoors, they like the kinship they develop with the other people with whom they hunt, they appreciate the challenge of having to track an animal, anticipate his or her movements, and finally aim and fire.

Although these explanations might sound like reasons, they are actually just motives. Hunters enjoy these aspects of hunting, and that is why they hunt. A serial killer might say some of the same things about his pursuit: he likes the thrill and the challenge of stalking his prey and of successfully bagging it. Hunters have another thing in common with serial killers: they often take a trophy from their victims, skin, hair, or a body part. In both cases, the killing gives the killer a sense of accomplishment and the desire to remember and relive the whole experience in the future.

I want to be clear that I am not saying that hunters are the same as serial killers. I am examining the justifications offered by hunters for hunting. And if those justifications are no stronger than what a serial killer might say to justify serial killing, then that might cast doubt on the legitimacy of both enterprises.

Ah, but hunters also provide some redeeming features for their acts, features not shared by the exploits of most serial killers. Hunters often donate the flesh of their animal victims to poor people to eat. Serial killers, by contrast, do not donate their victims' organs for transplantation. Hunters also say that the fees they must pay to hunt are used to support conservation. And best of all, they argue that hunting prevents animal populations such as the white deer from becoming too large, leading to starvation. Hunters also cite the fact that hunting is a tradition.

There are responses to each of these claims. First, one can help poor, hungry people without anyone having to aim a weapon at an animal. And if it is possible to do something charitable without killing anyone, then it becomes harder to justify an insistence on killing.

Second, if paying hunting fees supports worthwhile projects, then maybe we should all pay the fees and not kill anyone. We might think of our tax system as a method for collecting money to accomplish important objectives without the need to license any killing.

And what about the third redeeming act -- saving animals from overpopulation? Well, if that is a priority, then it is difficult to explain why so many hunters choose to aim their weapons at male deer victims rather than at does. If one wants to limit population through slaughter, one kills females, the members of the herd who provide a ceiling on possible offspring by their own number, not males, even a small number of whom can inseminate a large female herd. If one's goal were instead to collect an antler trophy or encourage the population growth of one's preferred killing targets, though, then shooting the males would actually make sense. And in any event, we would not countenance the murder of individuals to help stem overpopulation among humans, so why should we accept it when the victims are animals?

Fourth and finally, the fact that a particular form of violence is traditional is actually a reason to question it--because traditions have generally enjoyed a freedom from scrutiny--rather than a reason to think it is a beneficial or even innocuous activity. Some of the worst American practices, enslavement, racism, discrimination, xenophobia, female disenfranchisement, and lawful marital rape all endured for a very long time, despite being despicable, on account of their longstanding traditional nature.

Should we be surprised that the arguments that hunters and their allies make to support hunting do not survive careful scrutiny? The first "reasons" for hunting are in fact the real ones: people hunt because they like it. They use weapons to kill animals who want to live, who have families and others with whom they have bonded, who did nothing to harm or threaten the hunters, because hunters find it fun, exciting, and satisfying. The various allegedly redeeming features of the practice are there mainly to rationalize the practice after the fact. People can say, "I feel good about hunting, because I know poor people will be helped by my activity."

From: PECO
09-Jul-18
You said no one advocated one season, but you quoted and responded to Missouribreak's comment about one season with any weapon.

From: Annony Mouse
09-Jul-18
Kevin: " That isn't likely to ever change unless and until arrows start traveling at 2000+ fps. "

What about those JATO assisted 'SMART" arrows and bolts with embedded GPS and exploding broadheads? Work great and the auto-baggie option packs the burger as an even greater labor saving device! I can now shoot a doe across the street in the next county and my Amazon drone will deliver my venison right to my front porch! Love the increasing technology that makes hunting easier and less stressful.

Observation (from MI). Initially, crossbows were legal in archery season for only the handicapped which few had any problems with. However, as doctor shopping allowed more and more people to become "archery handicapped", it seems that the moneyed special interests (manufacturers) put a hefty amount of lobbying money to get the crossbow legal for any and all...and it happened.

It is interesting (digressive) to note a similar action has taken with medical marijuana. The same progression is occurring.

09-Jul-18
Excellent points Annony Mouse!!!

09-Jul-18
Annony Mouse good points Ten Point Crossbows are biggest money pockets in Crossbow world .they helped tar the dirt roads for lobbing for crossbows used in Archery Season same so as crossbow magazine -Money Talks https://www.crossbownation.com/community/threads/reining-in-the-crossbow.81372/page-8

From: JTV
09-Jul-18
Warren is also a true Liberal nut case ... she is the mentally defective one.... she is what happens when a person is detached from the real world of nature .. anthropomorphism dosnt cut it in the wild ... ... she is another reason why these Dems and libs must be defeated at every turn ...

From: K Cummings
09-Jul-18
"You said no one advocated one season, but you quoted and responded to Missouribreak's comment about one season with any weapon.

Missouribreak was obviously being facetious. As a matter of fact, later in the thread eluded to the idiocy of such an idea:

"Not advocating one season, simply pointing out the idiocy of comments similar to.... " why worry about what everyone else is killing animals with, just do your thing on your side of the fence ". "

Again, nobody that I know if is advocating for all weapons in one season. That's a straw man argument.

KPC

From: K Cummings
09-Jul-18
"What about those JATO assisted 'SMART" arrows and bolts with embedded GPS and exploding broadheads? Work great and the auto-baggie option packs the burger as an even greater labor saving device! I can now shoot a doe across the street in the next county and my Amazon drone will deliver my venison right to my front porch! Love the increasing technology that makes hunting easier and less stressful."

Yeah. Let me know when those hit the market and we can start worrying about them.

"Observation (from MI). Initially, crossbows were legal in archery season for only the handicapped which few had any problems with. However, as doctor shopping allowed more and more people to become "archery handicapped", it seems that the moneyed special interests (manufacturers) put a hefty amount of lobbying money to get the crossbow legal for any and all...and it happened."

Yes it did.

As much as you or I may not like it, or as much as you or I may not think it's real bow hunting, virtually none of the horror stories we heard prior to it happening have come to fruition. That's the point. We still can't (won't) kill enough deer in most areas of MI to keep them within the carrying capacity of the habitat. At the end of the day, it has had very little, if any impact on you, me, or the resource itself.

Much ado about nothing. At the end of the day, we have a lot more important things to worry about, that actually could change ALL hunting as we know it.

KPC

From: BIG BEAR
09-Jul-18
It’s not going to make a difference in Michigan..... The DNR is going to wipe out the deer with rifles to eradicate CWD....... here comes the early rifle season !!

From: K Cummings
09-Jul-18
"It’s not going to make a difference in Michigan....."

You're correct BB. It didn't prior to finding CWD in MI either.

KPC

09-Jul-18
We don't have CWD in Alaska the Wolfs take care of weak...

From: K Cummings
09-Jul-18
Next thing you know, someone will suggest that crossbows actually cause CWD.

Either that or George Soros, the CCC, the eGOP (whatever that is), or those dang muzzies.

:)

KPC

From: Grey Ghost
09-Jul-18
It seems to me that RockStar started this thread for affirmation that his chosen weapon doesn't compromise his "bowhunter" persona. Sorry, but the definition of "bowhunter" is constantly changing and evolving. It's best to just call yourself a "hunter", because the lines between different weapons is becoming more blurry all the time.

Matt

From: Feedjake
09-Jul-18
Yeah I don't think you should be allowed to call yourself a bowhunter if you aren't touching the string when you shoot.

From: Bowbender
09-Jul-18
"Either that or George Soros, the CCC, the eGOP (whatever that is), or those dang muzzies."

Or the Rothchilds and the Iluminati. For pete's sake get with the program, Kevin.

09-Jul-18
I stared the Thread make new friends : Hunters that live in Sitka Alaska are trying get more people hunting Blacktails our winter snows been hard on deer we need cut the herd down,,

From: Woods Walker
09-Jul-18
"Yeah I don't think you should be allowed to call yourself a bowhunter if you aren't touching the string when you shoot."

So if you use a mechanical release you aren't a bow hunter? WOW! The compgun guys are going to go apoplectic!

From: K Cummings
09-Jul-18
You're right bowbender, what was I thinking.

I've even heard that there is a group of trillionaire crossbow hunters (NAMFLA) that shoot nothing but fawns.

KPC

From: PECO
09-Jul-18
I'm still waiting for the crossgun warriors to explain how allowing it in the general archery season for everyone will NOT decrease the odds for bowhunters in draw states. We don't have an excess of deer, or bowhunting opportunity in Colorado. Crickets.

From: Grey Ghost
09-Jul-18
"I stared the Thread make news friend"

Here's a bit of advice. Don't start a new thread about crossbows on a site that is predominately compound or traditional archery users...it never ends well for you.

I have no dog in this fight. I'm a hunter. Period. Whether it's a club, leg-hold trap, sling-shot, traditional bow, compound bow, BB gun, pellet gun, muzzleloader, or rifle....I've enjoyed killing and eating animals with all of them. For big game I prefer seasons with "archery" in their names, mostly because of the greater challenge, longer seasons, and the opportunity to hunt during the rut.

But there has to be a line drawn somewhere for the definition of "archery". IMO, a archery weapon should have to be manually drawn, held, aimed, and arrow released at the time of the shot. If you have to do nothing more than aim and shoot, it's not archery equipment in my book.

But, I respect the rights of others to have a different definition.

Matt

09-Jul-18
Crossbows for all hunters absolutely WILL decrease the odds in the draw, also known as point creep. Same with Wisconsin and Michigan bear, which are also on a drawing.

From: Bowbender
09-Jul-18
"I've even heard that there is a group of trillionaire crossbow hunters (NAMFLA) that shoot nothing but fawns."

Yeah.... they have tee shirts with the group motto "Pick a Spot".

From: Woods Walker
09-Jul-18
"Crossbows for all hunters absolutely WILL decrease the odds in the draw, also known as point creep. Same with Wisconsin and Michigan bear, which are also on a drawing."

Stickbow hunters said the same thing when compguns came out.

From: JTV
09-Jul-18

JTV's embedded Photo
JTV's embedded Photo

From: K Cummings
09-Jul-18
"I'm still waiting for the crossgun warriors to explain how allowing it in the general archery season for everyone will NOT decrease the odds for bowhunters in draw states. We don't have an excess of deer, or bowhunting opportunity in Colorado. Crickets. "

Yet another straw man argument. You seem to be on a roll with those lately. To my knowledge, nobody is advocating for that...at least not me. Exactly the opposite actually.

"I can only assume that if the resource can't support crossbows in the bow season, it won't be allowed. At least that's the way it should be if they are doing their jobs correctly."

Simply put, if your state can't support crossbows in bow season, the game department shouldn't allow it. However, if your state can support it, what's the difference. Seems pretty simple to me.

If anyone is trying to lump all hunters and all states together it sure seems to be the no "crossguns" ever crowd. CO isn't MI, and MI isn't IL, and IL isn't KS. Every state's game departments should set their rules, seasons, methods, etc., based on what is best for the resource in their state, region, county, etc..

One size does not fit all.

KPC

09-Jul-18
I hate to say it, but compounds did similarly affect the drawings and seasons. So did inlines, modern rifles, and the like. All are factors in the harvest efficiency. Best to think beyond whitetail deer in the Midwest.

From: BIG BEAR
09-Jul-18
It won’t effect Michigan Bear at all.... You can already use rifles for bear.... most guys do.

09-Jul-18
Scoped crossbows do increase the bear harvest over traditional real bows. Sitting 45 yards from a bait with a scoped crossbow is far more efficient than sitting at 25 yards with an open sighted, or no sight, hand drawn bow. I have been in on over 50 baited archery bear kills, and another 20 spot and stalk. Some rifle kills too.

From: K Cummings
09-Jul-18
"I hate to say it, but compounds did similarly affect the drawings and seasons. So did inlines, modern rifles, and the like. All are factors in the harvest efficiency. Best to think beyond whitetail deer in the Midwest. "

Some of us are doing just that MB. Maybe you could do the same for areas outside of yours.

Ultimately, regulations should always be set based on the realities of a given area.

Those who trade in sweeping generalizations (not to mention moronic memes) are usually just left in the dust.

KPC

09-Jul-18
Yes I have agree Scoped Crossbows are deadly- Galena Alaska Air force base 2009 I shot 3 bears in one day with Kodabow Zulu with Nikon scope ,All died within 40 yards of stand .We ate good that month ,I even had 2 State Police help me wheel the bears on their 4 wheelers.

From: BIG BEAR
09-Jul-18
You can already use a scoped rifle for all of Bear season dude..... how are crossbows going to make it any easier to kill a bear than that ??? If a guy wants to kill a bear easier than with a bow.... he’ll simply use a rifle......

PS........ if you’ve been in on 70 bear kills..... then I think the method you are using is WAY to easy..... you should resort to ONLY stalking bears with no bait using a longbow.......

09-Jul-18
Many hunters, (including me now days) only hunt with archery equipment for Midwestern and Canadian deer and bear. With the new norm in archery being the highly efficient, game warden silent, light gathering scoped modern crossbow, you can bet the archery kill percentage will increase for all species where these crossbows are allowed for all hunters. Not saying it is wrong, just the way it is and will be.

From: PECO
09-Jul-18
I like the Jenner meme, it's very funny. Don't loose your sense of humor. I'll see this till it hits 200, then I'll catch you guys on the next crossgun thread, and we can all repeat ourselves yet again for the umteenmillionth time.

From: BIG BEAR
09-Jul-18
So in other words....... The lazy slobs who are using crossbows because they are easier are not going to use a rifle because they still want to consider it a “bow kill” just to piss you off ?? I think you should stick to your out west point creep argument for Western hunting....... Crossbows aren’t going to make a damned bit of difference here in Michigan...... The DNR wants to kill all the deer because of CWD..... so they’re enacting an early rifle season..... and most of the bears are killed with rifles here.....

From: K Cummings
09-Jul-18
"I'll see this till it hits 200, then I'll catch you guys on the next crossgun thread, and we can all repeat ourselves yet again for the umteenmillionth time."

Exactly. Some people will continue repeating the same unsupportable straw man arguments for the "umteenmillionth time" and the regulations will go right on changing around them.

KPC

From: Rhody
09-Jul-18
Crossbow- mechanical gun with limited range. Stored energy via limbs, released by a trigger mechanism propelling an arrow/bolt.

Bow- device that stores energy via its limbs by the requirement of a person pulling on the string(fingers or mechanical release), holding that energy in place by said persons available strength, then releasing it, thereby propelling an arrow/bolt.

A bow requires practice to become competent at placing a lethal arrow. A challenge.

The crossbow, not so much.

From: BIG BEAR
09-Jul-18
And a compound bow..... not so much of a challenge compared to a recurve or longbow.. I could pick my compound up and take 2 shots and be ready for hunting at 15-20 yards...... and I haven’t shot it since hunting season....... my recurves..... not so much....

Scientific study.......... I own a crossbow....... it has killed ZERO deer.....(or anything else)........ In the time I have owned that crossbow.... I have killed 3 deer with my compound bow........ So my compound bow is 300% more effective at killing than my crossbow.......Hahahahaha

09-Jul-18
I was not for compounds, inlines, or crossbows. I am a three time loser.

09-Jul-18
I am trying think of my next new Thread lmao Global Warming lmao Check out Alaska crossbow forum I happen be Moderator Owner , you can talking about anything and everything ,even sock lint... http://crossbowsinalaska.freeforums.net/board/1/general-discussion

I am Wildcatter on Archerytalk crossbow and I am called BuckStop on Crossbow nation ---I been banned 167 times on Archerytalk crossbow and only 32 times on crossbow nation, ,the boys hate me telling it like it is when I tell them stop baiting deer or one guy Ironduke is he paid hunter in NJ he owns a deer management company and shoots over 150 deer a year with 75 dollar price on each deer killed. with crossbow he on crossbownation,.check it out ,,

From: Dirk Diggler
09-Jul-18
Killing a bunch of deer does nothing to end CWD. Colorado has proved that but they're getting ready to prove it again in the northwest herd.

From: JTV
09-Jul-18
well hell, at least some of the truth finally comes out (some of the rest I know ), others on here surmised you were full of crap ..... you can NOW leave RSAT since you asked earlier... and as I said earlier.... Troll ...

From: Ace
09-Jul-18
" It's akin to looking down ones nose at someone for wearing boxers when I choose to wear briefs. "

If we can agree on nothing else, can we at least agree that KPC must never post pictures to prove this?

From: Bowbender
09-Jul-18
Just curious..... EF Hutton (Look at me thread BG forum) gets the ban hammer on 05-July-2018 and RSAT shows up on 05-July-2018. Nah.....just a co-winkydink.

09-Jul-18
well hell, at least some of the truth finally comes out (some of the rest I know ), others on here surmised you were full of crap ..... you can NOW leave RSAT since you asked earlier... and as I said earlier.... Troll ... JTV so what's makes a troll because of belong to other bow forums' and have my own bow forum --im not posting on leatherneck and bashing longbows and recurves than I be a troll ,,this is a talk about everything and anything- goes area of bowsite, I seen you many times JTV posting on Archerytalk Crossbow and Crossbow Nation you just use a different user name than here but its you same IP number . I have a program lets me see IP numbers on any forum ,,I know you been baiting me from day one here ,,but I been trapping 50 years I know a baited trap when I see one,,

I will be posting nice hunting pictures and Alaskan hunting trips starting july 12

From: JTV
09-Jul-18
your the one who brought up the idea of leaving .... let me put it this way... I think your full of crap .. and not because of crossbows either ... "Tampa Florida area sports trade show 2016 my wife went with her twin sister June I had work." You wrote this above... you sure it was 2016 (you should know, you had to work right) .... when did you marry her... where is she from .... when was that picture actually taken.... is she really your wife .. if I'm wrong, I'm wrong, I'll admit it ... that dosnt happen often on here from me ...... curious minds want to know ... also I have NEVER posted on Crossbow nation(why the hell would I), and have nothing to do with AT and havnt in many many many months ..... your a lying fool !! ... answer the above questions .....

From: BowSniper
09-Jul-18
Banned 167 times from anything kind of says a lot, no?

From: trublucolo
09-Jul-18
Someone giving themselves the handle Rock Star anything and anyone's surprised? Some of you are slipping........reminds me of TBM shaded with a touch of old Rowdy.

From: JTV
09-Jul-18
our very own Rowdy Dowdy ....

From: slade
09-Jul-18
Come on JTV are you actually that the picture he lifted from the web is not his wife?

From: JTV
09-Jul-18
lol ..... she's aged well is all I'll say (2016 ??) .... if I'm wrong I'll apologize (when have you ever seen me say that..lol).... he can prove me wrong .... and I believe that "boat" is up the creek without a paddle also..... he can prove me wrong on that .... where is the registration numbers and tag on the Bow, as required by law ... prove me wrong, and I'll apologize ... if I'm wrong no big deal .... but I do have an ace card I'll play if needed .. seems to be a few "quiver sniffers" on this thread ....

From: trublucolo
09-Jul-18
Nice of whoever it was in the boat going the other way, that took the picture of his boat, to mail it to him. Unless of course he took the picture of his boat from a dock while someone else was driving it for him.

09-Jul-18
Talk about opening a can of crossbow worms not my wife not my boat lmao I was raised to tell the truth just go archerytalk crossbow general crossbow Ask anyone about Joe C from Sitka I am loved there,

From: Grey Ghost
09-Jul-18
Registered name is Joseph Conover.

Do I need to say more?

Matt

From: JTV
09-Jul-18
. still no answers to those questions .... ^^^ .. we dont care crap about AT here ... you said that pic is your "wife"... you said the pic was from 2016 ... I say your a liar ... I say you pulled it off a "hot fishin' chicks" web site ... if I'm wrong , I'll say Im sorry and apologize .... prove me wrong ...

From: BIG BEAR
09-Jul-18
Now that you exposed his secrets Jeff...... what do you do for a living ?? :-)

From: HDE
09-Jul-18
How can something have over 200 posts about the same topic? Kind of like 'Seinfeld', a show about nothing...

From: JTV
09-Jul-18
BB, I dont lie about having a wife or a boat like that and I dont care what he does for a living either..... I dont abide liars and posting pics that are not his ...... there was a guy here not long back that pulled other peoples deer hunting pics off of various sites and claimed them as his .... he didnt last long .... like I said prove me wrong ... I'll apologize and say I'm sorry ... very simple .... I'll man up... will he .. prove me wrong RSATer ..... you said that pic was taken in 2016, prove it ... "Tampa Florida area sports trade show 2016 my wife went with her twin sister June I had work." ..... twin sister also .... ROFLMAO !! ... prove me wrong and I'll apologize... very simple to do if this is all true .. I would love to be wrong on you and all this .. I'll apologize if I'm wrong ... I hope I am (well, kinda..lol) .. or all you have to do is say, yup, I lied, that aint my wife or my boat ....

From: BIG BEAR
09-Jul-18
Jeff....... You said I was very very very close when I guessed you work for Homeland Security..... Was that a lie...... No. I don’t think so. Was it stretching the truth to maybe improve your status here somehow ?? Maybe.... I don’t care what you do for a living either..... but as long as you’re calling out someone for being less than truthful......well.... here we are.

The only reason I bring this up is because guys have called you Paul Blart on here and PMd me with the name of the company you work for...... No big deal..... honest work.

From: JTV
09-Jul-18
we seen liars like PUTZ on here and he was and is sickening, all I want is for RSATer to say one way or the other...you dont come on to a website and start posting a pic of some chick you got off of a web site and claim her to be your wife ... or a boat that may or not be his... if it is his, good for him, and IF that is his wife very very good for him ... I'll apologize if I'm wrong like I said .... so dont try and cover for his ass and deflect and obfuscate... it wont fly with me .. if you want to sniff his quiver, have at it ..

From: Dirk Diggler
09-Jul-18

Dirk Diggler's Link
She made pinterest.

10-Jul-18
JTV we seen liars like PUTZ on here and he was and is sickening, all I want is for RSATer to say one way or the other...you dont come on to a website and start posting a pic of some chick you got off of a web site and claim her to be your wife ... or a boat that may or not be his... if it is his, good for him, and IF that is his wife very very good for him ... I'll apologize if I'm wrong like I said .... so dont try and cover for his ass and deflect and obfuscate... it wont fly with me .. if you want to sniff his quiver, have at it ..

I will be in Sitka July 11 ,I will take a picture next to our 42 foot islander sailboat called EROs and Viking ,I ill ask wife sign a picture for you JTV she returns from New Port Richey FL on July 19 ,her mom been sick. Never Fear The Rock Star is Here,

10-Jul-18
By the way anyone a ham radio operator , Sitka has a net 8pm 40 meters 7093 ssb, every night AK time, im on 2o meters ssb 14300 marine and14292,40 meters ssb 7243 after 7pm,late night 80 meters ssb 3993 and 3890,I run a icom 7300 with 1000 watt amplifier on boat endfeed dipole=- and Codan NGT SRX in Land Rover with Codan 9350 antenna 500 watt mobile amplifier . Joe KL4QG The Voice of South East ALASKA

10-Jul-18

RockStarArcherytalk's embedded Photo
RockStarArcherytalk's embedded Photo
Bear at work

From: Glunt@work
10-Jul-18
Some folks just have more interesting lives than others. I ventured over to AT...

From: JTV
10-Jul-18
Now its a 42 ft'er and a sailboat ?? .. above it was a 61 ft motor boat ...... hell, I could have anyone sign a picture... you can print one off of a website and have anyone sign it, including you .... your full of yourself ... the truth is out...

10-Jul-18

RockStarArcherytalk's embedded Photo
RockStarArcherytalk's embedded Photo
sailboat wintered in Sitka send summer picture of sailboat when home in 2 days ' don't forget our cabin in kasilof Alaska

10-Jul-18

RockStarArcherytalk's embedded Photo
RockStarArcherytalk's embedded Photo
Our cabin kasilof Alaska near Johnson lake

10-Jul-18

RockStarArcherytalk's embedded Photo
RockStarArcherytalk's embedded Photo
Sitka Alaska

10-Jul-18
JTV call Harbor master in Sitka Ak ask about Eros sailboat she been there 15 years getting painted this year and re-rigged oh YES Viking called Serenity when your talking to Stan the harbor master ask about Serenity ..

From: JTV
10-Jul-18
never said anything about the "cabin" did I, nope, never questioned it ... nice btw... ... I'm done with you ... have a nice life ....

From: elkmtngear
10-Jul-18
I have a good buddy that has lived in Sitka (Tom Perkins) for many Years...I'll share your Wife's pic with him, he probably knows her for sure. Small Town, ya know?

From: tonyo6302
10-Jul-18

tonyo6302's embedded Photo
tonyo6302's embedded Photo
Well well well. All you Crossbow Bashers and Malcontents have been beeching for years.

.. … ..

.. …

Some of you have touted, "If it ain't vertical, it ain't a bow.", or , "If it ain't vertical, it ain't archery equipment."

Well well well. The Crossbow Manufacturers have been listening, and probably been reading Bowsite too.

Here is the results of all your beeching ( see photo ), a Vertical Crossbow by Hickory Ridge. They even make a miniature version for horseback packing on drop camps and western wilderness.

LOL ! Hey, keep up the beeching and hating, and next thing you know ONLY crossbows will be allowed !!!!!

From: K Cummings
10-Jul-18
Yep, they've been around for quite a while Tonyo.

What more could you ask for?

Meets all the requirements of a real bow. Vertical bow, hand drawn with fingers on the string, energy stored in the limbs, 18" axle to axle, 325 fps...

Dang, that's almost "traditional."

:)

KPC

From: sleepyhunter
10-Jul-18
Impressive, I like it.

From: HDE
10-Jul-18
That Hickory Creek bow would be awesome for a zombie apocalypse.

From: MK111
11-Jul-18
I hunted with a Hickory Creek verticle crossbow for several years. It served me well. But due to my MS muscle problems and no longer could hold the bow at arms length I bought a Horten scoped reversed limb crossbow in 2017. Took a nice 10 pt with it.

By the way the Hickory Creek bow is for sale with no scope.

From: Woods Walker
11-Jul-18
You mean that's NOT a compound bow?? It must be...it LOOKS just like one.

11-Jul-18
I love it! Not that I am in the market but I always love that we keep coming up with more fun toys....

11-Jul-18

Missouribreaks's Link

From: K Cummings
11-Jul-18
MB:

Serious question if you are willing.

Earlier in the conversation you stated that "bowhunting will never again be what it was meant to be."

In your opinion, what was bowhunting "meant to be?"

KPC

From: BowSniper
11-Jul-18
Some things are personal opinions and some things are personal fact. Like who you are married to....

So does this rockstar guy think he is really married to a random internet photo? If we can't get past the crazy bullshit back story (like with Putz) why would his opinion on anything, crossbow or otherwise, really matter? It's more of an argument AGAINST ravin crossbows if their fan base consists of delusional internet wack jobs.

11-Jul-18

Missouribreaks's Link

11-Jul-18
Can go right up the mountain with that baby. No more discussions about crossbows being too heavy and bulky.

From: Glunt@work
11-Jul-18
I know what my opinion is of what bowhunting should be. Hunting with a bow.

Just need to settle if a crossbow is a crossbow or a cross bow and we could all agree.

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