Spike Bull 's Link
His views are right in line with every liberal Democrat in the country...... He demanded Amazon to remove books that they view as racist or Nazi......... This is going on around our nation with statues and books.......
Where in the Sam Hell do you read into that anything about Sharia Law ????? What does his religion have anything whatsoever to do with that article Spike ?????
You sir are a bigot....... 100% plain and simple. Now that the threads on racism have played out...... Maybe you need one on bigotry.........
Thanks, BB, for saying what I, and I suspect others, were thinking.
And as a side Note. JTV link is Canada !
How in the hell did the CF become what it is today!!
He’s a Marine spending 10 years in prison for the hazing of Muslim Americans in boot camp........... Muslim Americans who signed up to defend our country.......
Spike...... Refresh my memory......... Did you serve our nation ???? What do you think of Gunney Felix. ???
Maybe because it's that the fear of Sharia Law (as well as the Clintons, the eGOP, and the trillionaire pedophiles) controls every aspect of your life...
I hope you don't mind, but I fixed that for you. At least as it pertains to the OP and a few others.
A nice disclaimer should have been in order
Spike is a bigot because he thinks every Muslim in the United States is trying to implement Sharia Law..... The fact is they are not.
Call it for what it is, a stereotype, and sharia law is a real thing, not a fear of a fairytale.
Is that how we are supposed to judge people now? Stereotypes based on their religion or nationality? As BB said, that is just your basic, run of the mill bigotry.
I agree that Sharia law is a "real thing," but the notion that every Muslim wants it, or that it will be implemented through our legal system is indeed a "fairy tale."
Nomad @ work's Link
If I was a conspiracy guy I would be very suspect of the timing seeing as Ellison is now running for MN Attorney General.
Never said it was correct...
But what do you think of a young man who joins the Marines to defend the United States of America..... and his religion happens to be Muslim ??
You are also comparing apples and oranges.
I don't think any less of a Marine who joins to defend our nation and who may be of Muslim faith. The depth and possible deception of that faith will always concern me in the present political and social environment. History is our guide. The radical left wing liberal Muslim sympathizer running for a higher office can cause more damage to our nation from that position. You can't see that?
I have noticed that you have a affinity for Muslims whenever that subject arises. A Crusader for Muslims in America is not going over very big these days. I don't know why?
What I have noticed about BB is he doesn't like bigots, and has the backbone to say it.
If you wish to start a thread about "a young man who joins the Marines to defend the United States of America..... and his religion happens to be Muslim" you are welcome too. I may even participate if I have something to add to that conversation.
On topic........ Show me where the radical left wing Congressman is trying to implement Sharia Law here in the United States........
That radical left winger was elected in your state by the way...... and I’d bet my next paycheck that the majority of the folks who elected him are not Muslims.....
They are my coworkers and friends. I will put my life on the line proudly alongside them every day...........
I have a hell of a lot more respect for them, than a cowardly bigot who hides behind his keyboard and repeatedly says that all Muslims are pushing Sharia to become law in the U.S. That simply is not true.
Why would you have a problem with me repeatedly calling out Spike Bull for posting untruths about the subject ????? Flat out false information like Sharia Law is in effect in parts of Dearborn Michigan.... and the Dearborn Police will not go into those areas ?? That is 100% not true........ Why do you have a problem with me continually chiming in on it..... but you don’t seem to have a problem with Spike Bull REPEATEDLY posting untruths on the matter ???
I did not address JTV because honestly I did not open his link as I didn't think it relevant to the conversation & he did not address me personally.
Thank you for your service to your community & thank your co-workers.
Ellison doesn't need to implement sharia law....he will do plenty of damage to my State & this Country if he gets elected AG.
JTV's link illustrates what is happening world wide, we sure don't want to see it happen here. That is the goal of the radical left, they want to control what we can think and thus what we can say. They want all to be forced to accept their lack of values.
Muslims here legally and supporting themselves have and absolutely should have all the respect and accountability we all have. If they are citizens the right to vote and all that comes with citizenship. They do not have the right to encroach on our Constitution, an example any effort to move towards any type of sharia law for instance. As they grow in voting power we'll see if that happens. It certainly is happening in other countries. The time to counter that is now.
Those who works towards or applaud the demise of this great country, which would include the likes of trying to bring sharia into the picture in any way, are nothing but swine. I think we all can agree on that too.
Thanks, Trax. Let me repeat:
"The time to counter that is now."
I have a hard time trusting the future actions of those that ascribe to the Koranical doctrine which asks for musilms to lie, cheat, steal, abuse, enslave, murder, etc., against other people and religions to further thier caliphate dreams. I remember a recent article which stated that 75% of muslims in the US would like to have sharia law. I think that many readily admit it, and most other muslims would readily go along with it when pushed. Having them in our government, especially when they are known affiliates of MB, and allies with the Soros-Demon left, is a recipe for disaster.
Bigot? If I dislike some people you can bet it is because they have taught me to.
I remember your comments about what was happening in Dearborn, MI. Having lived close by at one time, I was alarmed.
Not just BB challenged you, but I also spoke with some former work colleagues still in the area. They set me straight, you were spreading false information.
That is a far cry from what you just posted. Not trying to be a jerk, but the more alarmist your posts are today, the more I ignore them. We conservatives must be tempered and balanced, for now.
Since we’re expanding that Tony ............ What do you think of young Muslims who volunteered to uphold the Constitution of The United States of America and protect it by joining the Marine Corps.......
What do you think of a drill instructor that would taunt them and openly call them terrorists in front of their fellow Marine recruits............?? Put one of them in a dryer ?? Mysteriously one of them died..... It was called a suicide..... But if the drill Sgt. Did nothing wrong...... why did he get convicted of 10 years in prison ?????
How do you feel about the treatment of those Marines ?? We’re you in the Military Tony ??
How about you Spike Bull ??? Did you do as much for the United States of America as those young Muslim Americans by volunteering for the Marine Corps ???
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( Start your own straw man thread, BIG BEAR, as you were asked to do, and I will answer your questions ) ( My video links are germane to the topic, by the way
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I will put you in for the award for the most straw man arguments in a single thread.
So, when are you starting your Jarhead/Muslim/Drill Instructor thread? I am ready to answer your straw man questions.
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What is it that KPC always types, "they resort to name calling when the cannot back up their arguments." Well looky who is calling people names now. WOW !
Just curious Tonyo, what do I need to apologize to anyone for?
Plenty of examples of white supremacists that want to supersede the Constitutionbut not a peep on that.
Plenty of examples of Christian Americans getting violent and not a peep.
Nope only the Muslims and brown people get the hate and angst.
Maybe you need to ask yourself why. Self reflection is a good thing. Use it
BB, Why would you apologize to Spike? Your interaction with Muslims and your endearment to them as you claim, is a far cry from the vast majority of Americans. Should people indict and chastise Americans for your sake who continue to feel the pain and savagery of 9/11/2001. Should people just forget when they continue with these attacks till this very day? You tend to lean heavily on the badge. Stand on your own. Your capable.
I have to ask also, what do I need to apologize for?
Spike, thank you for your apology.
Tony, we are obligated to treat people as individuals, not draw conclusions from what others in their group have done. Tim McVay did not represent my Christian beliefs.
Paul, I believe what has been described is a bias, that may have lead to prejudice, but you cannot draw racism as a conclusion, IMHO.
And BB, I believe Tony served in the military.
President Trump does not blame all Muslims for the acts of radical Islamic terrorists.... nor do I.
Not sure if you're referring to me, but if you are, I'd sure appreciate it if you'd show me where I called anyone a name. A simple cut and paste will do.
You have me confused with someone else concerning " often throwing Christianity" out there. I am not a saint by any means. I am a Christian and my personal worship is to my Lord, God, and King Jesus Christ. I will be judged by Him one day but no one on this earth. If I should have sins to pay for, and I undoubtedly will, that would be for Him to decide an admonish me. I have never used my religion as a crutch in my posts and never will. Btw......those who may "throw Christianity" out there often may have their reasons. that is their business.
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There is your post, the cut and paste you asked for, KPC.
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Facts not in evidence, BIG BEAR. Just because you say it, does not make it so.
Shameful behavior for an Officer of the Law.
I don't see any name calling in there, just pointing out behavior. Your participation in this thread, rather what you have said, is a sad disappointment to me. Surprised as well.
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Habitat for Wildlife, an apology for that post is most warranted. The above video links are pretty much proof that Spike is more spot on that you and BIG BEAR.
Plus an earlier comment by you, basically agreeing with BIG BEAR that Spike is a Bigot, for "critical thinking" on 1500 years of Islamic history.
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Perhaps, you should re-read the entire thread, and take everything in context.
Videos from any source in today's social media world are not credible, not as much as boots on the ground. Further, Spike owes this site an apology for constant posting of old and/or inaccurate information, most likely for the purpose of evoking some reaction.
Your attempt to defend what you have posted is weak and below your character. Telling a police officer in the area that Spike is right about not being able to go into a Muslim dominated area is accurate because he saw it on the web somewhere, when said officer tells you that is not true??? You owe BB an apology as basically you are calling him a liar.
Circumstantial evidence, if it walks like a duck...
You have an officer tell you what was said is not accurate. I call folks in the area, told what Spike said is not accurate. Spike has a history of posting things that multiple people have recently challenged.
You still going to defend he is more right? Look in the mirror Tony!
That video is a joke. Those guys went looking for trouble. How does it prove they want to implement Sharia law? Security looked non-muslim to me. I bet the police would respond if violence occurred. In fact, I know they would.
What a joke!
Spike Bull 's Link
Muslims, or perhaps more specifically islamists, are only one group with this agenda and they are pushing for sharia and the caliphate wiith the same tactics that they have for 1400 years.
Certain organizations track this and warn us. I am certain that many here feel the similarly about certain political parties. Anyways, look around. Trust who is trustworthy and be suspicious of the rest. See the link for info.
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DEC 1988 – Pan Am Flight 103 – dang those people from the Church of Christ!
FEB 1993 – World Trade Center, NY, NY. - The Hindu will get you every time!
JUN 1996 – Khobar Towers - Ya gotta watch those Baptists!
AUG 1999 – U.S. Embassies Kenya/Tanzania – those Lutherans can sure be mean!
OCT 2000 – U.S.S. Cole - Those Jews came out of nowhere and surprised us!
SEPT 11, 2001 - Yep, Episcopalians at it again!
Lets see, does anyone know the body count resulting from the Westboro Baptist Church?
Says you. I say after 1500 years of Islamic history, ANYONE has a right to their own opinion without being called a bigot. If you want to say that Spike does not trusts Muslims, you could be correct. A Bigot - no - history is on his side.
"Telling a police officer in the area that Spike is right about not being able to go into a Muslim dominated area is accurate"
I never said that. Do not put words in my mouth, and stop thinking with your Liberal feelings.
"You owe BB an apology as basically you are calling him a liar. "
Not true. I disagreed with BIG BEAR that Spike is a bigiot. I apologize to no one for my opinion of Spike.
Now, H4W, you and I just disagree on things. I have not impuned your character at all, nor have I put words into your mouth.
You, on the other hand, have agreed that Spike is a bigot, and you have impuned my character. You are one that should man up and apologize - to both of us.
Basing an opinion on selective history and thinking things that happened 1500 years ago are relevant to judging someone’s character today is pretty much what bigotry is all about. It’s about as reasonable as forming your opinion of Christians based on the Spanish Inquisition and the Salem Witch Trials.
"KPC- you can make revisions and additions however you like. The "parallel" drawn at the beginning (not mine) is assumed on religion alone and the political ideology/code of behavior some have.
Call it for what it is, a stereotype, and sharia law is a real thing, not a fear of a fairytale."
In response, I posted:
" "Is that how we are supposed to judge people now? Stereotypes based on their religion or nationality? As BB said, that is just your basic, run of the mill bigotry."
Making a factual statement about a specific behavior (not even a person) is calling someone a name? I think not. HDE made an observation, and I asked a question about that observation and made one of my own.
Furthermore, sticking with your theme of keeping "everything in context," let's take a look at something you posted.
" 1500 years of Islamic history, so I will not call someone a Bigot who reaches their own educated conclusion on all things Islamic. "
Even if I were to call someone a bigot, which I most certainly did not, would it not be fair for someone like BB to reach their own educated conclusion based on the volume of posts that someone has made on a particular topic, i.e. Muslims?
Again, nice try, (not really, actually) but words mean things. I try to choose mine carefully (typos notwithstanding).
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OK, what about them? Were all, or just a portion done in the name of Christ? Tell us - go ahead.
"Basing an opinion on selective history "
Says you, that it is selective. Facts not in eveidence. Just because you say it, does not make it so.
"and thinking things that happened 1500 years ago are relevant to judging someone’s character today is pretty much what bigotry is all about"
It is not judging someone, but the continued actions of a religion that leads to mistrust. History is a very good basis to form opinions.
"It’s about as reasonable as forming your opinion of Christians based on the Spanish Inquisition and the Salem Witch Trials. "
So now you have appointed yourself prosecutor, judge, and jury on exactly what someone may form their opinions on. So if they don't agree with your opinion, then thay are a bigot? Did i understand you correctly here?
Stereotyping is just ignorance and happens many times when people don't get out and believe the hate.
Of course you wouldn't think I believe that way based on my personal attackers and their accusations of my racism.....;^)
KPC, we will just have to disagree then. It appears to me in context that you jumped on the "Bigot" bandwagon on this thread.
By the way, so if, in your opinion, BIG BEAR can reach his own conclusion that Spike is a bigot, than in your thinking I should be able to disagree with him, right?
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Says you. Facts not in evidence. Just because you say it, does not make it so.
Spike Bull 's Link
Then there is this:
There are Bible verses that can be interpreted to condone slavery, violence, sexism, cannibalism, incest, and rape. That doesn't mean most Christians do (they clearly don't). Not sure why this concept is so hard for folks to understand and apply to Islam.
By the way, so if, in your opinion, BIG BEAR can reach his own conclusion that Spike is a bigot, than in your thinking I should be able to disagree with him, right?"
Of course you absolutely can. No where have I ever suggested otherwise. Nobody champions that more than I have. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Having said that, if you post it here, you had probably better be able to support it with facts or it likely won't turn out well for you. If the only way you can support your opinion is by calling other people names (which we see quite often), you're argument has failed....in my opinion of course.
Lastly, your insinuation that I called anyone in particular a bigot is simply not supportable with facts.
As it relates to spike specifically, I don't actually think he is a "bigot." I think he is paranoid, and therefore buys into a whole host of different "theories." When those "theories" are proven wrong, it doesn't go well for him. I am in no way suggesting he doesn't have the right to post them.
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There are a couple of good lessons on this thread, in my opinion. KPC and I, and even BIG BEAR and I, have disagreed without the name calling. That, again, in my opinion, is how it should be.
- except gflight is a racist - ;^)
I'm sure that was enlightening, and not at all biased. (sarcasm)
So, Spike, what are the basic principles of Sharia, as you understand them? Please don't plagiarize your answer from one of your right wing-nut sites. Answer off the top, based on your own personal research and knowledge.
So, you either defended Spike not knowing what he said, or defended him knowing. Which is it? I am sure no apology will be forthcoming as your thinking is dominated by emotional blather.
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Habitat for Wildlife, an apology for that post is most warranted. The above video links are pretty much proof that Spike is more spot on that you and BIG BEAR."
Again Tony, that EDITED video only makes Spike more spot on in your mind. Where did they prove Sharia law is in force and the police will not come into Dearborn?
I challenged your integrity with respect to this issue, and your character with respect to this issue. I do so again as you are at a minimum being disingenuous saying otherwise. Go back and read what I posted.
Since Spike has no evidence other than this edited video, he proved nothing. Yet you formed an opinion without either knowing what Spike said before, or chose to ignore what he said and defend a ridiculous position anyway.
Either way that is an integrity issue on this from my perspective. Own it.
"Facts not in evidence, BIG BEAR. Just because you say it, does not make it so.
Shameful behavior for an Officer of the Law."
Tony, that is name calling when taken in the context by which your standards are holding everyone else accountable for.
1500 years of selective history...Christian history also has some dark spots. He is a more recent, minor example...
One of my Jesuit professors married Robin and I. He was less than 15 years older than me. As a young Jesuit, the rector would check via their open doors that nightly prayers were performed kneeling next to their bed and striking their own backs with a leather belt.
Now - on to the August Chuckles thread...
On this thread? Let me go re-read this thread again.
"Tony, that is name calling when taken in the context by which your standards are holding everyone else accountable for. "
Totally not true. Again, stop with your musty liberal feelings, and try to find some facts.
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So how about it, H4W, will you give us another sermon on spreading something false?
H4W, what is the body count for Jesuit terrorism this century?
"I just re-read this entire thread. I cannot find where Spike says police cannot go into Dearborn. .. .. .."
He didn't say it in this thread, he said it in a previous thread.
However, based on the following:
"" 1500 years of Islamic history, so I will not call someone a Bigot who reaches their own educated conclusion on all things Islamic."
Surely if we can go back 1500 years on order to form an opinion, we can go back a few months can't we?
Heck, if it was never said, why would he apologize for having said it?
Thanks. You nailed it, but let's be frank. Tony is selective about the last 1500 years, so in his mind it is OK to be selective about what Spike said over the last few years. Tony, I don't need to dust off any liberal...
Another insult/name calling from my view. Quit being so dense;)
Does molestation count as terrorism to you, or just the victim? Honestly, the Vatican will have to answer that.
My point Tony is Islam is behind Christianity in modernization no doubt, but they both need to continue improving. To assume Islam is going to remain on the same trajectory is a mistake.
There are many Muslims working with different government and private entities trying to ferret out the radicals here. Big Bear probably will neither confirm or deny that, but I have wondered if that is not also part of his reason to challenge some of what has been said.
Thanks for this discussion. I am at the farm doing a bunch of tractor work and seat time is great to ponder various issues.
This is nothing different than the various ethnic enclaves I was familiar with growing up in Cleveland, and still exist in many cities today. People that share things in common culturally seek each other out. It is natural.
Like Trax said, this will only become an issue IF a certain culture tries to force their ways on the rest of us.
If I'm ever on an airplane I hope you are there to "make their lamps go dark" Question? How do you recognize a Muslim on the airplane? Are they brown,black,yellow,white?
Last one I sat next to while flying to Cabo to fish was a green eyed smoking hot blonde headed to Cabo for a bachelorette party for her best friend. Wedding was going to be in a Dallas Mosque two weeks later
Lots of things crossed my mind while talking with her but knocking her out was not one of them.
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Clairvoyant, now, are we? Reading minds now?
Did you come up with that body count from Jesuits yet, H4W? Or are you just continuing on your lineage on this thread of character assasination?
"He didn't say it in this thread, he said it in a previous thread. "
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I certainly do not have time to read every thread, I will take you at your word on that. Spike did indeed apologize. Believe it or not, KPC, I do not read every thread on Bowsite.
H4W, for some reason you seem to think that I am being selective. I have not a clue where you get that, or is that a subtle attempt at another character assassination?
So from that comment (selective) I take it that your view of Islamic History differs from mine. Care to explain your viewpoint on Islamic history?
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I agree sleepyhunter, and do not think you are a bigot for saying so. I also do not think you are being selective, nor do I wish to impune your character for your opinion.
At the linky above, 60 Terrorist Plots Since 9/11: Continued Lessons in Domestic Counterterrorism.
Answered everything above. You were probably typing.
Character assisination, is that like Islam assisination, or is this another selective categorization?
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I hope all this Islamic extremism goes away. I am just not going to bet the farm on it.
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Enjoy the day on your farm, and watch out for snakes!
Caveat: No, I am not bigoted against snakes, it is just that there is this 1500 year history with Copperheads in the Old Dominion . . . . . . . . and I have my own opinion.
You chide myself and others for drawing conclusions based on what a person has written over a period of time.
Now you admit to not having read some posts that we did. See the problem. That is being selective, though not by choice probably.
You have done the same to others. Read yet again your comment towards BB I posted. Yes, you may have veiled your harsh criticism, but that is just a function of style. I have always been more direct.
There are some folks on here that segregation and lynchings happened during their lifetime. "Good" christians no doubt amongst the supporters of those practices, they found ways to square it with their religion. Very few outside the KKK condone those practices today. We grew, so are Muslims.
All terrorism is unacceptable.
To be clear, I specifically said I thought on this issue you displayed a lack of integrity. If you want to be a liberal and play victim, go ahead. (See how that works.)
Your comment regarding BB is no different, except that he is not whining.
I am not a bigot towards whiners. There were some in the Old Testament, so that is 2000 plus years ago.
If I remember correctly I said that there were neighborhoods that were no-go zones in Dearborn. A little different, and never said any such a thing in this thread.
It seems that parsing details is only good sport for the few.
What does that have to do with Ellison being opposed to free speech? Aren't Police officers supposed to have their facts straight before making a decision to enforce the law? BB you're looking more like a Keystone Cop than a Police Officer in today's world.
You are correct BB, and Dearborn wasn't the only place. Supposedly there were similar areas in Dallas, Sioux Falls, and Wichita. There might be more, but that's all that come to mind.
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Because my opinion differs from yours. Thanks for proving my point.
"except that he is not whining. "
Oh the irony, LOL! Thanks again for proving my point.
H4W, did you come up with that number of U. S. Citizens killed by the Jesuit terrorism?
Have you found a Jesuit community that attacks in great detail the American way of life, and wants to substitute Jesuit Doctrine in place of the Constitution, or make Jesuit Doctrine enforceable on all Citizens regardless of religion?
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I would love to read about this "Great Wave" of Islam into the United States in the 17th and 18th Centuries. I had read that the Queen of Spain had put an end to the Moors prior to Columbus. I will admit I am not a Scholar of History, just a student. Do you have any references that support the "Great Wave" ?????
What the heck are flying commercial airlines for anyway
You are Ivy League boy. Private flights only !
Oh the lunacy.
Yes, child molestation is part of the American way of life? Too much Tony.
I see another "just the way you see it differently" interpretation of what was meant by Muslims being part of the Great Wave, not the Wave itself. You prove my point.
That is not fiction or some feel good story about a Muslim who may have fixed your flat tire and in the process is heaped upon with praise for them all. That is the truth.
BUT if we are going to group people let's be honest How many Americans died at the hands of Italians. How many allied troops were slaughtered by those pizza makers. Let's hate these people as a group. Ok Rocky
How many thousands of Americans were killed by nazis Huns etc. Let's hate these people as a group. Ok Rock
How about the Japenese. Let's hate these too Rock
The French The mexicans Oh let's not forget the British 4500 patriots killed let's hate all of these people to Rock
Sorry but the Muslims are just the hated de jour
It's kind of fun when you really think through it all
And to the Rock, who is now in the lead of a race no one wants to win, I’d love for you to share your thoughts with one of my current teammates. He’s from Iraq, immigrated here as a student, earned his doctorate, has worked 30 years for my company, and has become a US citizen along the way. I work with dozens of Muslims with similar stories. Would love for you to look them in the eye and share your perverted version of America with them and then get laughed out of the building.
BEG, Rocky may be in the lead, but the race appears to be tightening.
I know..... I know....... scarecrow/straw man..... whatever you call it.....
Thank You. Finally a compliment. No matter its intention. In this matter I would hope to retain it. BEG. In the big picture Muslims have done squat to further America historically. Get a grip and tighten the towel you hide so well around your head. If any of your Muslims friends want to debate me then give them the shot but tell them to strap those sandals high right up to their groin because I will be going after them.They won't be talking to you huggy bear. They will be talking to me and what I have to offer would not be pleasant. People make me laugh: I know a Muslim who can......I know a Muslim who is the greatest....I work with two Muslims who would......You don't know these people because you are very much unlike their culture. Then again maybe goggles and a scarf ARE in your future. September 11, 2001 the Trade Center Collapses. April 3rd, 2018. Hug a Muslim Day. I will pass until your ilk votes them in as President. Then I will move to the middle east where I will be safe.
RK, Don't be a idiot. You are speaking of present day allies who have contributed to America. Without the German Von Braun captured in WW2 and his knowledge of secret weapons we would be attempting to break the sound barrier today, not landing on planet's. If not for the Italian Enrico Fermi in Chicago the Japanese may never had surrendered and many more Americans would have been buried. I know this though. There would be two building in NY still standing and 3300 souls with families and children with a future walking our streets. The results of Islamic Muslim Extremists deep seated hatred for Americans who just want to be Americans. Of course under their own rules of engagement. The Rock The Rock
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Forced slavery is not immigration, you proved nothing. However, I thank you for the link, it was very educational, and something I had not heard of before.
Thanks again, BEG for the Link.
H4W, let us all know when you ever have facts, instead of feelings, to add to the thread.
RK, you entire post is straw man arguments. You should start your own thread, your post certainly is not germane to this one.
After Pearl Harbor...... Our Government rounded up 110,000 Americans in California. Oregon and Washington,, and placed them into detention camps..... They were Japanese Americans....
Is that what we should have done with all Muslim Americans after 9/11 ??? Is that what President Bush should have done ???
Back to the original topic.
Spike, what evidence do you have that Congressman Ellison wants to implement Sharia Law?
Humanity means a lot.
Caring about people - for real, not because a book of any text suggests it - means a lot.
And people fundamentally, are good.
Our son lived through that and we occasionally see some of those same families at his follow up. It's awesome!
And we see or learn that some of those families little warrior's lost the battle. And those families handle it just like "we" hope "we" all would.
Sure, there are A-Holes in the world - coming from every "group". But no one group has the monopoly on it. Strip people down to the basic, important stuff, and we are all way more the same than different. That has to play a role in why things like Maslow's Hierarchy and Self Determination Theory cross all borders of humanity in their application.
I cant stay all serious though... I did forget one group we should all agree on that are just terrible human beings. Jet's fans. Ugh! ;) (KIDDING)
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Oh for goodness sakes. Rounding up Americans of Japanese descent was unconstitutional and wrong. Tyoko Rose, an american citizen, was an abhorition.
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I have not read on the Bowsite of anyone claiming Americans of Muslim faith be rounded up and sent to Manzanar. I am sure that if it happend, KPC would let us know.
Gunnery Sgt. Joseph Felix is serving time in jail for violating the Standard Operating Procedure of the Recruit Training Regiment Marine Corps Recruit Depot Parris Island, for violating his sworn oath on how to train and treat recruits, and for violations of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. I probably can guess that JTV despises the man, but as a man who holds the Diploma for, and the qualifications of a USMC MOS 8511, I can assure you I am glad he is in jail.
H4W has proclaimed himself to be a mind reader, so maybe you can ask him how JTV feels about the Gunny.
Are you happy now?
You should be, as H4W and RK have surpassed you for strawman arguments, and you are now in 3rd place.
Why is it the Islamic Community doesn't seem to give America credit for stopping the genocide in Europe?
I BET I will make your next list when your superiority complex forces you to point out all of our faults again. Before you call me a mind reader, think about your list. You did exactly what you are accusing me and others of.
Straw man arguments are not getting through, maybe that will.
Tony, you are the one who is factually challenged, all the way back to referring us to a ridiculous video. And when you are given other examples, you write them off as people having different opinions.
I will repeat, you accused me of drawing a conclusion with regards to Spike, not knowing all of the history of his posts. You continue to be critical, even though you lacked facts that others had.
So, I guess you can be critical without all of the facts, because you are superior? Notice, it is a question, please answer.
I brought up the Catholic priest because I have a close family member who experienced what no one should. Others brought different examples to make the same point I believe you are missing. Muslims do not have a monopoly on causing atrocities.
There is no moral equivalence argument here. You SEEM to me to be willing to ignore evils committed by others in this debate because you see Muslim atrocities as worse.
What some of us see as bigotry is a willingness to ignore all except for those acts committed by Muslims. Further, it SEEMS there is a willingness to dump all Muslims together, something not done with other groups.
Tony, you can continue to criticize, but you sir are the one thinking emotionally. BB example of the Japanese internment is a poignant one. Hind sight is 20/20, but would any of us have spoken out against it? I recently had a retired Army Intelligence officer tell me why that was justified, that most Japanese were loyal to the Emperor, he was thought of as a god. So, what I perceived as a righteous attitude from you about that example not having any relevancy to this discussion, I believe it is quite comparable.
I hoped I used words that allowed you to see I was sharing my OPINION? Do not want to offend you again, I did not realize how sensitive you were;)
Do you know of any Muslims that were saved in Europe, and then became members of terrorist groups? Please tell us how many?
It doesn't "seem" the Islamic group gave us credit, does not make that a fact right? But just putting it out there helps your argument I suppose?
Your last post proves to me you have double standards at play.
BTW, if I remember correctly, there was a failure to lead in Bosnia, which delayed action for some time while bodies continued to pile up. Just maybe it is tough for some to be grateful because family members were killed while the free world hesitated?
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You still cannot seem to link a Jesuit flogging himself to Islamic extremists - but hey - that was your analogy. You still cannot provide a body count caused by Jesuit Doctrine. You still cannot privide any testimony of a Jesuit Doctrine movement to overcome or be a higher "Law of the land" than the Constitution.
You make so many claims about me in your last two posts that simply are not true. It is not even worth cutting, pasting, and commenting on. You are all feelings and void of facts, and full horrible analogies. I will give you an A for effort though, and you are in the lead for the most straw man arguments.
"Tony.... there are people of all races and ethnicities taking up with the Taliban..... Any and all Americans that do so should be hung. "
Try to think about what all these ethnicities have in common - (Hint - it is a religion)
So, tell us how many Muslims saved in Europe entered terrorist organizations?
And again, you are disingenuous, or lack critical thinking skills, and I am being kind.
"You still cannot seem to link a Jesuit flogging himself to Islamic extremists - but hey - that was your analogy. "
I never tried to link the two. What I said is people of Christian faith continue to grow, and so will Muslims. The Jesuit example was given to show that in just my lifetime alone, practices done by members of Christianity that today we find abhorrent and eliminated, the Muslim faith we should expect will do the same. And based on a very recent Vatican announcement, there is much more work still to be done purging pedophile priests.
You are a bright guy, why do you refuse to accept all points given to you as opinion? It is a fact Jesuits do not flog themselves today, or are not required to. It is a fact what the Vatican announced.
Yes I acknowledge that the religion of the terrorists that committed the horrible attacks of 9/11 is Islam........ Yes I acknowledge that Radical Islamic Terrorism is a threat to the world.........
But I don’t hold law abiding Muslim Americans accountable for that any more than I hold all Catholics accountable for a handful of priests raping little boys.......
Did that put me in the straw man lead ??????
Peace and thank you for your service to our nation !!
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The insurgents from Europe were trained soldiers - not the run of the mill Iraqis.
Appreciate your facts on the Jesuits. I will look it up. I never knew a Jesuit Priest, but the Navy got their first prior to my discharge. All the Catholic Priests I met while active duty were Roman Catholic.
Glad you hear you were not trying to link Jesuits to Terrorists. That is what I understood from you analogy. Thanks for clearing that up.
As far as how many home grown Europeans have joined ISIS or Al-Quada is debatable, and you can find many different opinions, and even published books on line.
"from Iraq, immigrated here as a student, earned his doctorate, has worked 30 years for my company, and has become a US citizen along the way."
You don't have to have an advanced degree to have this same value, and yes I realize most of you know that. If this same person worked as a laborer in a factory he would have the same value, the same as any of us. The key here is "here legally, following our laws, accepting and tolerating our customs, supporting themselves, honoring our Constitution and foundation, condemning those who don't do all of the above. Many do. Many don't. This thread I think is concerned with those that don't.
I appreciate your change in approach here, I will do the same.
Jesuits are Catholics. We always referred to them as the'Marines of priesthood', out of respect. Robin and I were married in her Catholic church (I was from a different Catholic Church) and Jesuit priest Father John Liederbach performed the marital vows. He could only do this if he was Catholic.
Thank you and your son for your service! With respect, allow me to point out one thing, your last paragraph. You do state there are varying opinions as to the numbers etc. You did use this as a point you made previously. Much of life from my perspective is opinion based on our experiences.
That said, I do see terrorism of the 9-11 scale being related almost exclusively to those who believe in Muslim faith, and some others attracted for a variety of sick reasons.
Tony, where I am uncomfortable is when it SEEMED TO ME on this thread all Muslims are lumped together. The Bible clearly tells us we will be judged by what's in our hearts. One for certain fact, none of us know what is in another's heart.
My apology for my style, at times my Christian values lose out to something they shouldn't. But, I have always reacted coming to a person's defense if I think they were being picked on, always. Maybe I am a little liberal after all. Thanks.
I'm not following this line of logic. You are comparing apples to oranges. You are comparing an extremist branch of a religion to a non-extremist branch of a religion. There are quite literally billions of Muslims who do not commit acts of terror - they have not rung up a body count just as Jesuits are not ringing up a body count.
" There are plenty of Christians who don't follow our laws, who disrespect others rights, who don't honor our Constitution (far more than the number of Muslims, both as a percentage of the population and absolute numbers if I had to guess)."
Can not dispute this, nobody can. There is accountability for these people, Christian or not. But these criminals or anarchists or apathetic morons do not necessarily want to destroy America or our way of life as a directive and implant their own. I think the concern of this thread is based on what is happening in a number of other countries right now, what is happening in some of our own hoods right now. There are good Muslims in this country and I tend to believe that they make up the vast majority of them. Those that follow the principles I highlighted above. The difference is that while plenty of Christians and other native born Americans break our laws and dishonor our Constitution not many of these perps have a hatred for this country and its principles to the point where they want to torch it. Applaud when it and its people are attacked. Practice customs that we find intolerable if not illegal. See the vast majority of us as infidels. They may presently be the vast minority, but this does exist as well.
All Muslims bad.... no. I'm sure at least in the US it would be a very tiny minority. OTOH..... there are enough throughout the world that support the "jihad", you would really have to be an idiot to ignore such facts. That there are sects or cells here in the US now is an undeniable fact. But we have deniers who would advert their own eyes to it. They even refuse to seen what is happening in Europe right now. "But this isn't Europe" does nothing to change the fact the same thing can happen here, especially with a big segment with blinders on. I prefer eyes wide open and facts. Vigilance. Have to admit...... I'm not very vigilant when it's Mormons...... a little more with Catholics though.....
Comparisons made here seem to come down to "well, yeah, but Christians do bad things too! " Then go on to list things like OK City bombing and such. First, you folks KNOW that was not done in the name of Jesus. Secondly..... we caught his azz and fried it. We do so with every whacko, that they claim to do it for God or not. Something like that happens and there is condemnation from nearly everywhere, some Churches the loudest. When I see that happening at Mosques in Islamist countries, instead of recruiting them, training and supporting them..... then I might see the religion as coming along, civilized step by civilized step. But I see very little push back against the "jihadists" in the US for that matter. I must have missed the last Muslim protest march against the MB, radical clerics, Fort Hood shooters etc..... but I do understand that a few people have privately warned authorities of radical plans and behaviors. That's a step in the right direction at least, and should be acknowledged. When peace and love for all mankind are preached at Mosques around the world there will be hope.
There are a relative handful of Muslims in the US. Even if ALL of them to a person were American loving apple pie eaters they are a but tears in the river to the millions and millions that support "jihad" and terrorist attacks, wipe out the Jews, etc. Things that are preached daily at Mosques around the world. And literally have specific plans laid out by several groups to infiltrate and take over entire countries from within. The classic phrase being "we will use their own system to beat them." This is as religion specific as it gets, it is a religiously based hate. Ain't the Mormons or the Buddhists hating. But please, lets not name any religions who are doing this..... as we speak.... there are just bad people..... not screwed up hateful religions......
If that isn't disturbing to you I have no idea what would be. If you want to play blind to it all, do so at your expense, not mine.
When was the last terror attack in the name of Islam in this country? More people are killed by falling TVs (by far) than radical Islamist terrorists in this country every year. Sorry, but of the things that I worry about when it comes to my safety, my families safety, or the safety and security of the people and institutions of this country, radical Islam hardly registers.
The dilemma is: How can one swear to defend something upon a book that promotes the opposite?
The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution states that Congress shall make no law prohibiting the free exercise of religion, yet the Quran states in Sura 4:89, “Those who reject Islam must be killed. If they turn back (from Islam), take hold of them and kill them wherever you find them.”
In Hadith Sahih al-Bukhari (Vol. 9, Book 84, No. 57), Muhammad said: “Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him.”
Islamic law relegates non-Muslims to “dhimmi” status, where they are not to propagate their customs amongst Muslims and cannot display a Cross or a Star of David.
The First Amendment states Congress shall not abridge “the freedom of speech,” yet Islamic law enforces dhimmi status on non-Muslims, prohibiting them from observing their religious practices publicly, raising their voices during prayer or ringing church bells.
The First Amendment states Congress cannot take away “the right of the people to peaceably assemble,” yet Islamic law states non-Muslims cannot build any new places of worship or repair any old places Muslims have destroyed; they must allow Muslims to participate in their private meetings; they cannot bring their dead near the graveyards of Muslims or mourn their dead loudly.
The First Amendment states Congress cannot take away the right of the people “to petition the Government for a redress of grievances,” yet Islamic law states non-Muslims are not to harbor any hostility toward the Islamic state or give comfort to those who disagree with Islamic government.
All our founders’ inspiring, biblical quotes in one place – a must-have for your library. Get Bill Federer’s “America’s God and Country Encyclopedia of Quotations”
The Second Amendment states, “The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed,” yet Islamic law states non-Muslims cannot possess arms, swords or weapons of any kind.
The Third Amendment states one cannot be forced to “quarter” someone in their house, yet Islamic law states non-Muslims must entertain and feed for three days any Muslim who wants to stay in their home, and for a longer period if the Muslim falls ill – and they cannot prevent Muslim travelers from staying in their places of worship.
The Fourth Amendment guarantees “the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects against unreasonable searches and seizures,” yet Islamic law states if a non-Muslim rides on a horse with a saddle and bridle, the horse can be taken away.
The Fifth Amendment states that “no person shall be held to answer for a capital or otherwise infamous crime … without due process of law,” yet Muhammad said, “No Muslim should be killed for killing a Kafir (infidel)” (Hadith Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol. 9, No. 50).
The Sixth Amendment guarantees a “public trial by an impartial jury” and the Seventh Amendment states “the right of trial by jury shall be preserved,” yet Islamic law does not give non-Muslims equal legal standing with Muslims, even prohibiting a non-Muslim from testifying in court against a Muslim.
The Eighth Amendment states there shall be no “cruel and unusual punishments inflicted,” yet the Quran states:
“Cut off the hands of thieves, whether they are male or female, as punishment for what they have done – a deterrent from Allah” (Sura 5:38).
A raped woman is punished:
“The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication – flog each of them with a hundred stripes” (Sura 24:2).
Women can be beaten:
“If you experience rebellion from the women, you shall first talk to them, then (you may use negative incentives like) deserting them in bed, then you may (as a last alternative) beat them” (Sura 4:34).
Honor killings of wives and daughters who have embarrassed their families have been reported by the United Nations in Muslim populations of Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Morocco, Pakistan, Syria, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Yemen and increasing in Western nations.
The 13th Amendment states there shall be no “slavery or involuntary servitude,” yet the Quran accommodates slavery as Muhammad owned slaves.
The 14th Amendment guarantees citizens “equal protection of the laws,” yet the Quran does not consider Jews, Christians and other non-Muslims as equal to Muslims before the law.
Referring to Jews as “the People of the Book,” Muhammad said: “They are those whom Allah has cursed; who have been under his wrath; some of whom were turned into apes and swine” (Sura 5:60, 7:166, 2:65).
The 15th Amendment guarantees “the right of the citizens … to vote shall not be denied … on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude,” yet the fundamentalist interpretation of Islamic law does not allow voting, as democracy is considered people setting themselves in the place of Allah by making their own laws.
The 16th Amendment has some similarities with Islamic law, as “Congress shall have the power to lay and collect taxes on incomes from whatever source derived.” Muhammad said, “Fight those who believe not in Allah … until they pay the jizya [tax] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued” (Sura 9:29).
The 18th Amendment has some similarities with Islamic law, as “the manufacture, sale, or transportation of intoxicating liquors … for beverage purposes is hereby prohibited.”
The 19th Amendment allows women to vote, yet in strict Islamic countries women cannot vote.
The 21st Amendment allows for the sale of liquor, yet Islamic law prohibits non-Muslims from selling or drinking wine and liquor openly.
One would assume that to swear upon a book implies believing what is in that book.
As Muhammad was not just a religious leader, but also a political and military leader, Islam is not just a religious system, but also a political and military system.
Since no one has the authority to demand Muslims worldwide cease imitating the political/military example of Muhammad, when Muslims bow in prayer they are also pledging political/military allegiance to Mecca.
Swearing to defend the U.S. Constitution upon a Quran that promotes different values is a dilemma worthy of a presidential explanation.
When the OP started a similar thread on Sharia no-go zones some time ago, you stated the following:
"Good grief. The Sky is Always Falling Claptrap like this "No Go Zones in Texas" has about as much truth to it as fairy dust, unicorn farts..."
Have you changed your mind?
Name calling aside (and we all know why people resort to that tactic), would the "no" mean you haven't changed your mind on the subject, or does the "no" mean you don't want to answer the question, or does the "no" mean something else?
slade, Continue on.
I thought Kevin delivered a standing eight count, but it looks more like a TKO for plagiarism. ;)
Or if we use the LeBron example, it was a slam dunk.
Baseball...Kevin went yard.
Spike, what evidence do you have that Congressman Ellison wants to implement Sharia Law?
That's what I thought.
If one was to spend as much time paying attention as they do appeasing it would be more than obvious.
But please carry on and keep spinning and twisting.
I respect anyone that is willing to offer an original thought, even if it is diametrically opposed to what I believe, as long as they are somewhat capable of supporting it with facts.
Unlike some, who can only post links, or even worse, plagiarize what others have written (most often from questionable "news" sites), and when asked to support it, resort to name calling, bluster, posting memes, and back slapping with people of the same ilk.
They apparently think nobody notices.
You could have shortened your last post to about twelve meaningless words if you would have removed all the childish name calling. ;)
But please keep spinning,twisting, italicizing , digging thru old posts, and sending PM's to each other like 7 grade girls and the free rent.
"I mentioned in a PM to Kevin".... ....off your knee's. You PM and them mention in a public post your PM? You are embarrassing yourself. Are you telling me you can't find a Muslim to prop up and keep you occupied?
I remember reading you and Kevin PMing each other, and it was not pleasant. I receive and send PMs for a number of reasons, obviously so do others.
Did they teach you to think before writing at that Ivy league University?
Rock, point is you were critical of my PMing, but now admit you do it yourself. I guess I held my own against an ivy leaguer. But as you say, who cares.
Ponder this though, why would that function exist if no one used it?
That's an example of an asked and simultaneously answered question.
Not including Dearborn, MI.
Thanks for confirming your original post was utter nonsense.
That has a certain familiar ring to it slade. I wonder if spike knows that when you used one like it before...
"Good grief. The Sky is Always Falling Claptrap like this "No Go Zones in Texas" has about as much truth to it as fairy dust, unicorn farts..."
...you were referring to him?
"I respect anyone that is willing to offer an original thought, even if it is diametrically opposed to what I believe, as long as they are somewhat capable of supporting it with facts.
Unlike some, who can only post links, or even worse, plagiarize what others have written (most often from questionable "news" sites), and when asked to support it, resort to name calling, bluster, posting memes, and back slapping with people of the same ilk."
In that regard, you seldom if ever disappoint.
No thanks necessary. You have no point. Your dislike for Spike gets you a beat down every time. It's fun to watch, but you should know better by now. I'll always respond in a positive manner to the people here I respect. If you don't like that, too bad.
I must admit, not very many people can manage to pull that off.
In that regard, you are quite unique indeed.
For what it's worth, I have no "dislike" for spike. It's hard to actually dislike someone you've never met. I do dislike the promulgation of fake news, whacky conspiracy theories, and outright baseless speculation regardless of who does it. It's unfortunate that you can't recognize the difference.
Shortly after the 22 July terrorist attack in Canada, a Mosque openly calls on Allah to slay non-muslims "one by one".
Habitat for Wildlife's Link
Can’t say I’ve heard that come from any Mormons, but I’ve certainly heard people say we should just nuke the Muslim countries. Guess that’s ok cause they aren’t proposing it in the name of Christ.
FWIW...I’ve been to quite a few Muslim countries, a few that have sharia law. I wasn’t imprisoned and I wasn’t killed.
When it happens, the appeaser's will claim it was a homegrown terrorist.
I like your comment about good Muslims, and swine. That was my intent to show there are good and bad in any group.
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Me too. Just spent, again, time in Kuwait and Bahrain back in March.
I remember my first time in Bahrain, January 2007. I was staying in the Gulf Hotel, and got the Manama newspaper printed in English every morning. I remember one "Letter to the Editor" from a Bahraini Citizen, complaining about Sharia Law, and the treatment of a Philipino Maid.
It seems that another Bahraini Man was displeased with his Maid, and threw her out a 10 story window.
The Bahraini who wrote the letter called it murder, and was complaining that because "HE" was a Citizen, and "She" was a Woman, and a Philipino, no charges were filed.
Yes, there are good Muslims. However, starting 39 years ago with the invasion of the U.S. Embassy in Iran, and leading up and through 9-11-01 'til present day, I just cannot seem to muster up any trust.
I will treat all people with dignity and respect unless they do something to negate that, but for the current time being, I just cannot trust any Muslim.
Annony Mouse's Link
Habitat for Wildlife's Link
Nomad @ work's Link
Habitat for Wildlife's Link
Just one state, PA
just how deep does this sickness run!
Yea kill all the violent Muslims but make sure you take a priest with each and every one of them
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I guess we need to pray more for the Clergy of all faiths.
How can ANYONE deny that this is a problem in the Catholic Religion......???? This...... years after the 2002 report by the Boston Globe that exposed Predator Priests and the cover up of the problem on the East Coast.........
In my humble opinion..... In recent history......... Many gay men who have been too embarrassed to admit to their Catholic parents that they are gay...... have become Priests.......
Now add in their vow of celibacy..... And you have a recipe for disaster..... Men still have biological urges that MUST be met even after Priesthood..... unless you castrate them......
You want to fix the problem ???? Allow Priests to get married.........That’s a start.
Islam is not just a religion, but also a political system based on the words dictated by a pedophile prophet and are taken as immutable. Unlike Christianity, Islam has never undergone any reformation--in fact, takes great effort to not change from its founding principals. Confusing a religion with a hybrid mixture of a political system makes it hard to discuss without pussyfooting and avoiding PC intolerance. The standards of journalism in this country have sunk to the point that when a terrorist act is committed, it is excused and alibied as something other.
Plagiarized or not, Slade's posts gives good evidence that Islamic sharia law cannot coincide with our Constitution. The numbers of sharia inspired "honor" killings gives evidence that there is a big problem within the Islamic community when it comes to accepting that they no longer live in a society that does not allow these beliefs.
The problems seen in this country WRT Islam originates in our immigration problems (both legal and illegal) where there is no encouragement/pressure to assimilate into our American culture. What we see is an increasing balkanization of our immigrant population--and this is not just with Muslims, but most of the recent immigrants.
In post WWII Detroit where I grew up, the parents and grandparents who immigrated from Europe encouraged their children to learn to speak the American vernacular without accent, to become American so they could succeed. Most of the kids I grew up with had adult family who spoke little or heavily accented English, spoke German, Polish, Yiddish at home...but my friends definitely were American. The best things that came from those immigrants were foods that have become staples of American life and words and phrases that became incorporated into the American vernacular.
One can cite the "Chinatowns", "Little Japans" and such...but even prior to WWII, the children of immigrants assimilated to their adopted country. While a blot on this country's history, through the lens of history it is understandable when one thinks of Pearl Harbor. Not as well espoused is that many German immigrant citizens were also held under suspicion and treated wrongly.
Again...today, there is little pressure to assimilate. Instead, we spend and spend to push 2 to speak Spanish, have multi-lingual dictates for the school system and government documents that must be translated into numerous languages.
I wonder how many here have actually read the Q'ran and Hadith to form their opinions.
Abide by the laws of the U.SA.......... Break those laws..... get charged with a crime..... Simple........ I don’t need to read the Q’ran to figure that out.
Doesn’t matter where you came from or your race or religion..... End of story.
Apply for citizenship legally and with documentation. Criminals will be automatically discarded. When and if the U.S. requires a influx of immigration that number will be based upon the merit system or whatever sector in most need of that level of skill the U.S. decides. The U.S. sets the number and labor not illegal aliens.
"Here’s all the pressure to assimilate that is needed........ Come to the U.S.A. (Legally)........ Abide by the laws of the U.SA.......... Break those laws..... get charged with a crime..... Simple"
"Again...today, there is little pressure to assimilate. Instead, we spend and spend to push 2 to speak Spanish, have multi-lingual dictates for the school system and government documents that must be translated into numerous languages."
Where's the benefit to the US? And yes, immigration should benefit the US. Not just the immigrants.
Come to America LEGALLY..... I agree.
How about a diversity of thought? A diversity of culture? A diverse workforce? Labor competition? Increased innovation and entrepreneurship?
"Again...today, there is little pressure to assimilate. Instead, we spend and spend to push 2 to speak Spanish, have multi-lingual dictates for the school system and government documents that must be translated into numerous languages."
Where's the diversity when there is no assimilation?
Look, I don’t believe we should mandate diversity and I don’t believe we should mandate assimilation. That said, even in the face of these dumb government mandates, I don’t for one second question the benefits of diversity or of immigration.
American and assimilates himself to us he shall be treated on an exact equality with every one else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed or birth-place or origin.
But this is predicated upon the man’s becoming in very fact an American and nothing but an American. If he tries to keep segregated with men of his own origin and separated from the rest of America, then he isn’t doing his part as an American. There can be no divided allegiance here. . . We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language, for we intend to see that the crucible turns our people out as Americans, of American nationality, and not as dwellers in a polyglot boarding-house; and we have room for but one soul loyalty, and that is loyalty to the American people."
Well said Teddy Roosevelt.
And we shall enslave them in our factories after they have been vetted and rejections by the hundreds sent back to their country.
Immigrants need not only come here legally. They need to tolerate our customs, learn to speak English and assimilate, honor our Constitution, follow our laws, and be able to support themselves. Merit based immigration is desperately needed.
Rashida Tlaib is set to be the first Muslim American woman in Congress...... You can thank the Democrats of Detroit for that one........
She defeated the President of Detroit City Council Brenda Jones, John Conyers great nephew Ian Conyers,,,,, And Coleman Young Jr.......... What a LOSE..... LOSE.........LOSE............LOSE ....... Field that was.........
100% totally false. You cannot even find a definition of total assimilation or extreme assimilation that negates diversity of an ethnic group.
Diversity: the state of being diverse; variety.
In the extreme case of assimilation, everyone is the same. You have no variety. Thus, no diversity.
I think if I had to make a choice....... I’d roll the dice with Rashida Tlaib over the spawn of John and Monica Conyers.....
Better yet..... vote Republican....
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There is no such thing. No ethnic group is forced by gun point to assimilate. No example was provided by you.
You are making up something that does not exist. Stop it. It is beneath your intelligence.
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Nope, you WERE just making stuff up for a feel good Liberal feeling, but NOW you are just plain lying.
Just stop it, not even the CF libs are buying it or coming to your defense.
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Bullsh@t. Let me copy and paste your opening false statement:
"Well, the extreme version of assimilation results in no diversity. "
Care to spin another load of fertilizer?
The rest of your last post is not worth responding to. There is really only one way to save face here, and it is not with another lie.
Assimilation, if taken to its extreme limit, results in no diversity.
Post WWII immigrants may have spoken poor accented English, but they made sure their offspring became Americans. I know that from growing up in a Detroit neighborhood that my friends parents came from many different countries.
I recently read documents that my great grandfather was investigated by the FBI as a possible German spy during WWI.
He was farming in extreme eastern Colorado and in no way could have been a spy. However, the community reported him to the FBI.
The family spoke German. One day he came home and said "We are Americans and in this house we will only talk American."
E Pluribus Unum
Muslims as a whole and their theistic form of government are a danger to America. Apparently we didn't read about the Trojan Horse or Pandora's Box - and definitely are ignoring what the koran says and how they are currently interpreting it. There is no wonder that the leftists and muslims are so comfortable together.
Annony Mouse's Link
Pizza, bagels, tacos...and so much more has become part of the American assimilated cuisine.
And I doubt that chart regarding English language skills would have looked pretty similar to one created when our non-English speaking ancestors hit these shores. I promise if you walked around little Italy in 1915 there wasn't a whole lot of English being spoken.
People think things are somehow different now with this batch of immigrants than they were in the past. It isn't. The same nativist sentiments existed back then. The same fears. __________ is a danger to our institutions. _________ won't assimilate. ____________ is undermining the moral fabric of our country. It was the Chinese, the Irish, the Italians, the Jews...now it's Muslims and hispanics.
Diversity is a symptom, an unintended consequence, of our real strength, freedom! People come here because they are free to reap the rewards of their own efforts when immersed in our liberty.
At least they used to. All too often now they come for the freebies we taxpayers unwittingly pay for via our vote buying politicians!
Today is a far different day than then. We need merit based immigration. You must come here legally, you must be able to support yourself from day one, and end to any form of chain migration, you must tolerate our customs and learn to speak English, you must obey our laws and honor our Constitution, you must understand we may not tolerate some of your customs. It is as simple as that. In order for more to come here legally we must rid ourselves of the illegal invaders. Better border security and an end to any form of entitlements for illegals is the answer. A scorched earth policy towards employers who hire illegal invaders would really help. This needs to be done ASAP.
It seems that assimilation requires an effort on behalf of both parties. I'm not just talking governmental assistance etc. People need to OWN the process, not just feel like it's handed to them. If that (both parties working) doesnt happen, you just have isolated populations with no common theme. IE, tribalism. That seems to create a lot of conflict everywhere... Heck, just look at the tribal nature of modern american politics - sure hasn't made the country stronger. That said, whatever level of assimilation or blending or what not that's been able to occur here, has helped us be the greatest country the world has ever seen.
The stories my neighbors tell (a Colombian immigrant - she came for college, got a job, met a guy, she became a citizen and then they got married; and a Ghanaian family - husband and wife moved here for a better life, became citizens, he is the night shift manager for a body bag company a town over, and she's an electrical engineer for Ratheon making guidance systems) is pretty amazing, in terms of the efforts they put forth to assimilate and the efforts people often put up to prevent that assimilation. Heck, a week ago when a new hire was introduced to his boss (my neighbor from Ghana), the guy wouldn't shake his hand and WALKED out of the new job. All he knew about him at that point was that he was his boss - had never even spoken to him. That's not on my neighbor the immigrant... thats on the "American" (in quotes because I'd argue, and am confident everyone on the CF would agree, that the guy displays the worst in "us" vs the "best") who should have been willing to stick a hand out and foster that assimilation - into the workplace.
My history is a bit shaky on it, but I bet BEG could correct me looking over his recent posts... Wasn't it essentially time and numbers that some what "forced" the assimilation of say Asian, Irish, Italian, etc folks decades ago. Almost like a critical mass was reached and there it was.
It took forced assimilation in many areas for black people to even have a shot at assimilating with "main stream" culture as another example.
Whether we completely closed borders now or not, the human beings who are here, are here. If we hold out a hand, as a country, and "teach them how to fish" (help them understand how to integrate and be a part of an entirely new culture), I believe that would make us stronger and a more durable nation.
What is pervasive is the thought of open borders. As it is, ILLEGAL invaders who treat our borders as if they are open. What is pervasive are the ILLEGAL invaders. I think we are ALL for legal immigration with merit. We can not open up legal immigration more until the ILLEGALS are driven OUT. We must secure our borders.
By Jeffrey A. Friedberg
"They" are preciously called "immigrants," "refugees," "migrants," "undocumented Americans," and other pathetic-sounding names tailored to wrench our hearts – we purportedly cruel, unsympathetic, inhuman Americans.
Luxuriating here, behind our walls of wealth, abundance, and security, we deny them our (stolen) largesse and close up our fat-wracked arms to these noble, sacred, starving, uneducated, illiterate, diseased, violent, and socialist masses from "third-world," countries.
Who are these Mexicans, Africans, South Americans, Asians, and others whose feet Nancy Pelosi has washed and the pope kissed? What is it these luminaries see that we do not? We – reputedly the most selfish, evil, detestable creatures on Earth?
About 58 percent, or nearly 6-in-10 refugees have "below basic" English skills after living in the U.S. for five years. These unassimilated refugees are sometimes described as "functionally illiterate[.]" ...
Since 2008, as Breitbart News reported, the U.S. [with the "help" of "religious" and civilian "immigrant" organizations raking in billions of dollars] has permanently resettled more than 1.7 million foreign nationals and refugees through a variety of humanitarian programs like the Special Immigrant Juveniles, and the Nicaraguan Adjustment and Central American Relief Act.
The majority, about 56 percent, of refugee households between 2011 and 2015 were on food stamps, a welfare service that is subsidized by the American taxpayer.
Nearly 30 percent of refugees received cash welfare of some sort between 2011 and 2015, while 34 percent of refugees 18-years-old or older said they had no health insurance.
Of the refugees who said they did have health insurance, about 50 percent said they were either on Medicaid or Refugee Medical Assistance, both of which are taxpayer-funded.
Based upon commonsense analysis of the presented facts, it seems some of these "folks" do not come here to actually be Americans. It seems they do not want to be "assimilated" or to learn English. Or work. Or be responsible for their own finances, or for any employable future.
If you come to another country, but you have no dream to become one with it – and you express hatred and anger for your host while praising and promoting your own country and vengefully flying its flag, and you say out loud that you want to vanquish and control the host – then you are a foreign invader. A conquering army.
When the Italians, Irish, Jews, and others came to America around the beginning of the 20th century – escaping the Old World, imbued with genuine desire to become 100% American – they had to stop at Ellis Island, the federal immigration station, isolated on 27.5 acres in the Upper New York Bay.
These people, including my own Jewish ancestors, came to America at the turn of the 20th century to escape actual ethnic cleansing of the Pogroms, or mass murders – poverty and suppression – and to fulfill a dream of becoming Americans. They didn't "protest," march, or fly the flags of their home countries. They learned English, entered or created American jobs, and became financially and societally successful.
There was no American welfare state. There were no "freebie" benefits as there are now, a hundred years later.
These immigrants of the early 20th century came to America to be free, to stand individually, to provide for their families, to create, and to become 100% Americans.
There is precedent here. There is ancestral experience and assimilation in America here. There are those who know what it means to be an immigrant and escape to a better world in America.
The American Dream has never been one of living on welfare or benefits while maintaining and promoting your own "culture," language, religion, and laws. It's not about being a Mexican or an African or any other nationality.
America is about being American.
It's the same in any country. You don't go to Mexico or Saudi Arabia or Zimbabwe, and fly the American flag and declare you're there to take over. You would probably be arrested or killed in those countries.
In America, you are protected by law. You are an American.
If you are a real, legal immigrant, and not an invader – you came here for truth, justice, and the American way.
If you came here but don't want to be an American, or you want to eradicate America and be in control through ethnicity, religion, or foreign law – go home. Or go somewhere else.
Wait a minute that would mean we would have to kill all of our ranch hands and the guy at the post office and the cashiers at the grocery store and gas station and liquor store.......let me think about this for a minute.
Let me work on a new idea. Get back with you soon
They separate themselves from the rest of America..... They have their own communities....... which includes schools, and community centers. They dress vastly different than the rest of America..... It’s not really that big of deal.....
No second generation immigrant should have any problem speaking English.
And most don't. Your chart that showed a moderate increase in the literacy rates for first generation immigrants should come as no surprise and is no different than it's been since people were immigrating to this country.
Every year that goes by, these people will look less-and-less like whatever nationality they were, and more and more like Americans. They will also introduce Americans to aspects of their culture that will no doubt live on and add to the wonderful melting pot that is this country.
Assimilation is not a question of "if," it's merely a matter of "when." It's a force you can't stop IMO.
As far as Muslim Congressmen go it is a real work in motion. A good example of the potential travesty is with Keith Ellison. One who advocates for the murdering of police officers by his very actions and supports cop killers, and he is going to be the top cop in the state of Minnesota?? Wake up people.
Spike Bull 's Link
"Feds Stumble On What Muslims In Michigan Were Doing In Secret And SHUT Them Down
By Tinker Belle
Posted on August 19, 2018
Dearborn, Michigan was once an all-American town, where American businesses thrived and the residents were all peace-loving Americans. That has all changed in recent years thanks to the influx of Muslims that settled in the area. Thanks to Obama’s terrible policies over the last 8 years the city is being dubbed “little Baghdad”. Recently the Muslim community in the area has found a new method to bring misery to the American people. Their actions prove they have no intention of assimilating with us. Their goals should be crystal clear by now.
Immigrants from the Middle-East are entering the country in record number, with numbers in Dearborn doubling in the past five years. They are not only preparing for the takeover of America but while doing so are putting a massive strain on the economy by leeching off of welfare with bogus claims that ensure they get the most money from the government as possible. Now, these Muslims have been busted in a major welfare-fraud ring and what they have taken from the American people will make your blood boil.
Us Herald reported:
Recently a Muslim food stamp crime ring was broken up in Grand Rapids, MI. Three brothers Emad Khalil Karaein, Jawad Khalil-Ahmad Karaein, and Khader Khalil Karaein have pleaded guilty to welfare fraud. The brothers ran the Middle Eastern Market where they not only sold food but also ran their crime ring. They plead guilty to fraud as a way to protect two other brothers that were also suspected of being involved with the scam that cost taxpayers $736,000 from EBT and $544,000 from WIC over the course of nine years.
Food stamps only allow recipients to purchase certain items with the cards. The brothers offered food stamp holders a lesser amount of cash than the food stamps were worth. They would, in turn, use the food stamps to buy the allowed items. The in effect stole over $1.2 million by doing this.
Michigan has made it easy for people to gain access to their welfare programs, especially Muslims. They were the first state to offer their welfare forms in Arabic. Another kicker to the Michigan welfare system is that they allow Muslim men to claim up to four wives when filing for welfare. All they have to do is list them as extended family on the form. This makes it less important for Muslim immigrants to assimilate, instead, they can keep living their lives as a separate society when they move to places like Michigan. This raises two issues: welfare abuse and trying to fundamentally change a nation. How long until Michigan also allows Muslim immigrants to set up their own Shariah courts?
One man recently did a documentary on Dearborn, Michigan and was appalled by what he learned during the filming. Many of the women were decked out in designer clothes while flaunting their expensive cars all while living off the tax payer’s dime:
“When we’re going grocery shopping you see these young Arab ladies and girls with their kids getting out of Range Rovers using their EBT cards to get their groceries...they’re in designer clothes carrying Prada purses and pulling out their Medicaid cards for their healthcare…they’re driving around $60,000-$70,000 vehicles and living in $250,000-$300,000 homes,” He said.
We must continue to expose the truth about what is going on in our country. Our very lives may depend on it. Thanks to people like Brian who worked on the documentary, we are learning the truth more and more every day. We cannot count on Liberals because let’s face it they are completely clueless and would rather watch the world burn than hurt anyone’s feelings. It’s time to rise America.
SHARE IF YOU THINK IT IS TIME TO RISE AGAINST THIS MUSLIM INFILTRATION! "
If you believe that MUSLIMS have a monopoly on welfare fraud here in Michigan your an idiot !!!!! Any welfare fraud scams they are pulling I damn well guarantee you they learned from AMERICANS !!!!!!!!
The article says “Food Stamps”...... We don’t have food stamps in Michigan...... We issue EBT cards (Commonly referred to as BRIDGE CARDS)........
The abuse of these cards is a HUGE problem statewide..... to put that only on Muslims is a JOKE........ PEOPLE statewide find a way to use those cards at liquor stores for their booze, smokes, and lottery..... The stores in turn restock their stores with their customers EBT cards courtesy of our welfare system........
To imply that this is a Muslim problem is just one more untruth posted by you Spike Bull......
Have you ever been there Spike ???????? It’s a great town !!!!!!
K Cummings's Link
No kidding. Apparently they are learning from the best. Assimilation in the truest sense of the word.
Do the old angry white guys hold classes for those Muslim criminals?
Are the cops guilty of bigotry because they arrested these muslims instead of some others?
Geezer, BIG BEAR, you really make me think.......
I judge people for their actions Spike.... Not based on the color of their skin or their religion..........
Here’s a homework project for you...... For every bad thing you post about a Muslim..... find something positive to post about a law abiding Muslim American citizen.......
Keith Ellison is a liberal left wing Democrat born and raised in the U.S.A.,,,,,,,,,In Detroit.
You started a thread saying “Tell me they don’t want to implement Sharia Law”..........
And you provide nothing whatsoever to back up that he wants to implement Sharia Law.................
Hell........ I’ll bet that he’s way more interested in getting more welfare for all than implementing Sharia Law........
Here’s a few more Muslims that are not pushing for Sharia Law in the USA............
Cat Stevens..........Dr. Oz.............Janet Jackson......... Shaq............Dave Chappelle.......... Ellen Burstyn...........Mike Tyson...........Muhammad Ali..........Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.......
Janet Jackson? A practicing Muslim? You've got to be kidding me. Shaq? Same. Mike Tyson? A practicing Muslim. Good one. Ali is dead. He was a good guy. Kareem is a leftist hack.
Very few Muslim's who would support Sharia law in the USA would ever admit it or talk about it. Only the radicals or the stupid would. The islamic Swine are indeed alive and well. Their blind dumb sheep followers in this country are for the most part silent. For now.
Wow......... That is a really big assumption on your part......
Being a leftist hack doesn’t mean someone wants to implement Sharia Law here in the USA........
You and Spike sure talk a lot about that...... Yet it always seems to be speculation on both of your parts...... Spike says.... Tell me they don’t want to implement Sharia Law in the USA............
Then provides....... nothing...... nadda..... zero....... zilch..... tho support that.........
Did you serve our country ??
And Muslims make up about 1% of the U.S. population......
Wow..... something we agree on.
What’s the big deal about talking about yourself...... Did you fight against Muslims in the Military ??
How about if I agree that our nation must remain ever vigilant against radical Islamic Terrorists ??
It would appear as though the Muslims in the article are assimilating just fine.
When in Rome...
What do you think about Col. Burpee ????
What do you think about the lady who’s video you just posted ??
There are good Muslims here who follow our laws and want nothing to do with Sharia. There are the islamic swine. Then there are those that silently follow the cultural lead of the swine either through ignorance or apathy. They will be the difference makers.
The facts of the other videos ?? Well,,, The demographics video basically tells us the world will be dominated by Muslims in 50 years based on their fertility rates...... Then at the end says this is a call to action...... “What action”...... You just told me the world will be flooded with Muslims....... So here’s my action...... I’m going to live my life. I’m going to go hunting....... I’m going to go fishing.
No I didn't? You mean the first vid? I said, I agree. She is an intelligent, articulate, and obviously very good person. She is correct. She spoke clearly of the growing threat, to use her accurate term. She TOUCHED on the significant part though. The radicals who act in violence are a minority to those who follow them, and in this country follow them silently. The real threat, at least today, is not from the radicals. Oh, they are a threat to the populace, but not the country. The threat is from the Muslim and non-Muslim sheep who follow the same cultural direction. They may not reciprocate with the violence, but for now mostly silently follow in acceptance.
Show me one thing that supports that ??????????
Ellison is a liberal left wing Democrat...... Just like 98% of all the Politicians in Detroit where he came from........
Show me something to support the idea that he wants to implement Sharia Law........
You've got it partly right. He is home grown islamic swine, a follower of Farrakhan. A racist and a race pimp. He supports and has defended cop killers and murderers of law enforcement officers. He is a radical America hating islamist. He will soon hold a position of great power in Minnesota as their top cop. It sickens me, should sicken all Americans, should especially enrage our police officers. The radical islamic terrorists who condone acts of violence are a small number in this country, the sheep that support them are many and growing. As they gain positions of power their influence will accelerate. I'm not worried about myself or mine, I can take care of that and I will not live long enough to see our representative Republic in flames. That doesn't mean I don't care about what's left long after I'm ash.
Spike Bull 's Link
180,000,000 to 300,000,000 radical muslims, some planting their talons right here in America with the help of our leftists.
Thank you for your service to our country;; In whatever capacity that was.
Spike Bull 's Link
I don’t know much about the genital mutilation or what the Muslim reasoning is for the procedure in girls.....Other than it’s part of their religion........And they don’t see it as mutilation.....Their lawyers are arguing that the procedure is benign.......
I suppose the same argument could be given against circumcision........ Some folks believe it is wrong......It remains as the worlds most controversial surgery......
I have read it is so the female does not enjoy sex.
The Doctors performing the surgeries in Spikes posted case were arrested and charged....
My understanding is that circumcision enhances male pleasure by exposing the glans to direct stimulation, not that it detracts from it.
FGM comes in many shades, from small insignificant marks, to large labia removal, to full clitoral removal.
Tell me the last time any American thought that removing the entire head of your newborn's penis was a good idea.
"...The number of American women and girls affected or at risk is believed to have grown by 35 per cent to at least 228,000 between 1997 and 2000, according to the African women’s health center of Brigham and Women’s hospital in Boston, Massachusetts..."
Unlike FGM which is done as a religious act intended to deny sexual gratification of a woman by removal of the labia, circumcision has medical health benefits:
"... According to the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP), there are medical benefits and risks to circumcision. Possible benefits include a lower risk of urinary tract infections, penile cancer, and sexually transmitted diseases. There is a low risk of bleeding or infection..."
You would know more about this than me, as I'm quite far removed from the area but I hear that the the big question in Dearborn MI is whether or not Muslim men, who identify as women, are subject to female genital mutilation.
Because of the fact that most of Dearborn is considered a "no-go zone," we will likely never know.
Kalispel MT I would guess doesn't have much to worry about. Insignificant might even be a stretch. Dearborn OTOH....... a good bit more than that I would guess?
Using stats to argue such things as a "percentage" of radical islam IMO mean nothing. As stated and I believe pretty much agreed to by most, the radicals hold much greater leverage over what one might call the peaceful muslim. Thus the numbers of "good" and "bad" are skewed as well. The fear and social pressure to not stand up to them, oppose the radical or even the devout who adhere to such things as honor killings, mutilation, etc would be great. Complicit in silence.
Stats often don't tell the whole story. And at times...... lies, damned lies..... and statistics.......
It certainly has religious ties.....
It is widely accepted in the U.S. but no so much worldwide.....
Are you saying we do it here only for health reasons Jack ??
Interestingly.......... Jews and Muslims believe it is their religious right to circumcise their baby boys.............
A religious right to do a surgery to a human (genital mutilation) without their consent that will reduce their sexual pleasure ???? Hmmmm........
Although still abhorrent..... I have rethought the "honor killing" concept in some ways. Will agree there are a few Priests that they should bring back stoning......
Many battles worldwide have been waged to make it illegal and to deny health care insurance to pay for it...... It is the most controversial surgery in the world.... Do you deny that ??
Chris, I do see a big difference. Female genital mutilation, an attempt to keep women pure in Muslim faith mainly, prevents them from pleasure men are OK experiencing.
I think both are wrong..... If you are in favor of circumcision...... wait until a boy turns 18 so he can make an informed choice about his own body.....
A good bit of the world thinks using a plastic bag or a straw is abhorrent. You don't hear much from those of us who are "mutilated" complaining about it. A very TINY minority.... heheheh.... But if you look you can find those who complain they were born male when they "identify" as female. The tiny minority does not prove the hypothesis.......