Bowsite.com

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/remembering-john-mccain-america-came-first-with-him-at-all-times Leaders of both the House and Senate mourned the loss of Sen. John McCain, who died Saturday after battling cancer for more than a year, recalling fond memories of the beloved war hero turned six-term lawmaker.“Great nations require great sacrifice from their leaders,” House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy, R-Calif., told Maria Bartiromo during an interview on “Sunday Morning Futures.” “There’s been few leaders that have ever sacrificed as much as John McCain. He was fierce, he was loyal, he could work across the other side of the aisle, but he could be the very best person in a battle.”McCain died at the age of 81, after battling glioblastoma, an aggressive form of brain cancer that affects nearly 700,000 Americans. The Arizona senator and former Massachusetts Sen. Ted Kennedy, a friend and political opponent, died of the same cancer exactly nine years apart.Before serving more than three decades in Congress and being named the GOP’s 2008 presidential nominee, McCain served in the U.S. Navy and was shot down over North Vietnam. After breaking his arms and a leg, he was captured and beaten, and spent 5 1/2 years as a prisoner of war at Hoa Lo Prison, known to American prisoners as the “Hanoi Hilton.”

FILE - In this May 25, 1973, file photo, U.S. Navy Lt. Cmdr. John McCain is greeted by President Richard Nixon, left, in Washington, after McCain's release from a prisoner of war camp in North Vietnam. An aide says that McCain died Saturday, Aug. 25, (AP) Expand “Patriotism sometimes runs in a family, and sometimes the second or third generation takes it for granted, but that certainly wasn’t the case for John,” Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., told Bartiromo. “When he’s remembered this coming week and the week after and the months after, it’s gonna be as a patriot. With all his strengths and weaknesses, all his accomplishments, it was really just the fact that America came first with him at all times.”McCarthy added that there was “no one that understood the military better, or the idea of what happens around the world,” than McCain.“When we would travel to other countries and sit with those leaders, there was always a person they would ask about, and it was John McCain, cause they knew him personally and they trusted him,” he added. “And that helped America’s foreign policy around the world during all different eras and different times.”

Did he run into a burning building to save people?

Did he charge a machine gun nest?

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Yes, he flew his plane into flak and anti-aircraft artillery ( AAA ) countless times.

He flew lots of combat missions, NvaGvUp. I know that you knew that, so where are you going with your ridiculous question?

That is where his heroic deeds stopped. He wasn't a Maverick that defined bipartisanship. He defined career politician. He didn't "serve" his country for all those years. He was the one that benefited from his time as a senator. Not America. That doesn't deserve honor. It deserves being called what it is. We all will leave a legacy. His wasn't special and, he surely was no hero for doing it.

McCain, by his own admission was not a good pilot. (Have you read his book? I have)

McCain's flying combat missions was his job and is not something that was 'above and beyond the call of duty.' Doing your job may well be honorable, but that does not make it heroic.

Ones a hero the other a zero.

Pilot McCain was no different.

In that case, everyman and woman who serves in the military is a hero.

Not in my book.

Honestly Kyle, one of my biggest questions-how would I have done in combat. I was never there, he was. He deserves respect.

He definitely deserves respect. But that does not make him a hero.

But the liberal media will praise him as their favorite Republican ever this week after his death for two reasons.

1.) He lost to Obama.

2.) He hated President Trump.

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I will also say, that any Military Pilot, who flies into the fray, is a Hero in my book, regardless of their post Military politics.

NvaGvUp, tell us how many times your flew to drop bombs on a target, facing Russian Anti-Aircraft Missiles?

I just lost a ton of respect for you. You need to walk your bullshit back, and right now!

This has nothing to do with me an little to do with McCain.

It has everything to do with the overuse and abuse of the word 'hero,' which in my opinion, should be reserved for those who went 'above and beyond' in their actions. It should be reserved for the extraordinary, not for doing what was expected as part of a person's duties.

To me, doing otherwise diminishes and disrespects those who went far beyond the call of duty.

What was it that George Clooney said about Charlton Heston passing away?

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BULLSHIT !!!

You asked if he ever charged a machine gun nest, and the answer was yes.

You, Sir, as an USAF Aviator, denegrating a combat veteran, is the lowest of the low.

I have no more use for you, and no respect for you. You should be so ashamed of yourself.

Maybe your Dad, at Point Du Hoc, was only doing his job, but to me, he - and John McCain, were Heros.

Unbelievable. If someone had ever told me that NvaGvUp would bad mouth a combat veteran for their war time efforts, I would have called them a liar. I guess not any more.

You, NvaGvUp, are despicable. As an Air Force Officer, you know better, and are better, than the bullshit you have written on this thread.

You, Sir, are so out of line, it is indescribable.

It’s about time people started honoring those among us who faced dangerous combat and put other before them. If you can’t find it in yourself to put your petty politics aside to respect a fallen warrior, shame on you. “No comment”. “He was a RINO”, etc etc. despicable and low.

No, it's what some always were.

You recognized he was a war hero. So did others. They also agree his politics, let's just say was a disappoinment too often for conservatives.

But his politics does not negate what he did for his country during war, something most of us have never done.

Let's all have some class and acknowledge that. We are not blind dumb sheep to give a person their proper due, IMHO.

I will have to leave it as this...

I smile inside whenever people are labeled blind dumb sheep. It is implied on this CF I am only not one of those as long as I goose step along with the agreed upon conservative mantra.

Life is complex, it requires much thought and reflection, and the courage to adapt to change, IMHO. Thanks.

Over here he faltered, compromised and succumbed to the powers that be and dies a shell of a man of his former glorious self. He LOST.

Sad his handlers kept the war mantra going sixty years.......but it was neccesary for lack of any other substance.

good grief.... never a good thing to say about him for years..... that had no Trump connections anyway..... sad.... clearly and transparently.... sad.....

RIP John McCain. I voted for you once. (Who was it you PutZ twins voted for again... was it your new found hero????) Pretty much under the same conditions I voted for Trump. Your opponent was a true POS.......

RIP.

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Just to put the record straight on the USS Forrestal fire, during this time of limited technology, a Calibrated Stray Voltage Meter was to be used on each wing station prior to installing a missile.

The aircraft maintainers used a Meter that not only was out of calibration, but was malfunctioning. Using that Meter, they saw no voltage, hung the missile, and when they connected the umbilical electrical cord to the missile, it fired. This was in no way John McCains fault.

To set another record straight, not knowing if the rumor of McCains actions during the Forrestal fire are true or not, but Officers do not fight fires, especially Pilots.

Yes, I too served on an Aircraft Carrier, and I too went to Shipboard Firefighting School in Naval Base Yokuska, Japan. There were no Officers in my class. There were no Pilots in my Squadron, VMFP-3, that had been to firefighting school. Furthermore, all personnel have an appointed place of duty during General Quarters. It doesn't make sense for any commander to order trained pilots to fight fires, especially when it takes 3 to 4 years to get a Pilot up to speed and trained.

Dirk, if you are going to run around every thread stating that John McCain ducked below deck and did not fight the flight deck fire on the Forrestal, then you should also state exactly how many Pilots came topside to fight it.

And for all, a good documentary to watch is, "U.S.S. Franklin, Honor Restored."

Another good movie that explains the USS Forrestal and USS Oriskiny fires is a Navy Film, titled "Trial by Fire". I saw it in Firefighting School.

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There were a lot of lessons learned because of the USS Forrestal and USS Oriskany fires. One big one is to clear the flight deck to let the trained people do their job. One big error in both cases, you had people who knew how to stop the fire, spraying PKP, and then people who were brave - but clueless - spraying off the PKP with water.

. . . and of course, as you know, most Naval Safety Center regulations were written in blood, and that is why when out to sea, the Navy drills, drills, drills, and just when you think the ship can drill no more, the Skipper orders another drill.

As far as what each of us would have done during that flightdeck fire - can only be answered if we are ever faced with the same bridge to cross.

Point being in that long-winded explanation is everyone is supposed to be somewhere during an evolution unless you become a casualty and then you're replaced by someone else at your station. On the CGC's I was stationed on or deployed on as an aviator, the aviation crew is supposed to muster at the helo or in the galley suited up and ready to fly if directed by the Bridge. If there was a helo crash on the flt deck, there are individuals suited up to retrieve the aircrew/bodies from the helo. That said....if I was ever involved in a helo crash anywhere, my mindset and training was to help get your fellow aircrew out of the helo if physically able and/or not incapacitated. This includes the pilots too....they would also try to get their aircrew out. I suspect where you have multiple aircraft on a flt deck and one has an emergency, you're trained to get out of your own aircraft and go to your assigned muster station if you can make it. Whether or not you want to disregard your assignment and help fight a fire, try to get an aircrew out of the burning plane next to yours or rescue others will be an on the spot decision that you will have to make and likely answer for and explain your reasoning for later on during the mishap investigation. You could be a hero or a zero real fast.

Talk about a petty child!

Trying to imagine the scene at the WH this morning when the order was conveyed to put the flag back up to full staff.

No class is no excuse for mistreating the passing of a veteran not to mention a long time Senator. All vets should Shame Trump

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Bullshit. When you and Kyle fly 23 missions in enemy territory, into a city guarded by flack and SAM missile Batteries, then and only then will you two qualify to define heroism for a Combat Pilot.

Go ahead and surround yourself with only clones if it makes you feel better/safer. I’m left leaning and often take a beating on the CF. I come here to understand different perspectives and to check myself. Because we don’t agree does not make me an enemy or my opinion less valid. Same goes for McCain. I thank him for his years of service even when I didn’t agree. Anyone who is a POW is going above the call of duty and is a hero in my book. IMO

Technology back then was not what it was today. I think in all the years I loaded ordnance on F/A-18's (on and off aircraft carriers) and AV-8's I only saw SV once or twice. I have three cruises under my belt. I went to firefighting school with several pilots, but that is mainly because everyone had to be qualified. If a flight deck fire broke out they stayed below. This is probably because they are a limited and valuable personnel resource. Without pilots the ship can't do it's mission.

I do agree with NVAGIVUP in that the term HERO is over used, but I don't necessarily that that case applies to John McCain. He's time as a POW alone is enough to warrant that.

IRT to the flags flying half mast. I learned something new today. From the US flag code:

(m) The flag, when flown at half-staff, should be first hoisted to the peak for an instant and then lowered to the half-staff position. The flag should be again raised to the peak before it is lowered for the day. On Memorial Day the flag should be displayed at half-staff until noon only, then raised to the top of the staff. By order of the President, the flag shall be flown at half-staff upon the death of principal figures of the United States Government and the Governor of a State, territory, or possession, as a mark of respect to their memory. In the event of the death of other officials or foreign dignitaries, the flag is to be displayed at half-staff according to Presidential instructions or orders, or in accordance with recognized customs or practices not inconsistent with law. In the event of the death of a present or former official of the government of any State, territory, or possession of the United States, the Governor of that State, territory, or possession may proclaim that the National flag shall be flown at half-staff. The flag shall be flown at half-staff thirty days from the death of the President or a former President; ten days from the day of death of the Vice President, the Chief Justice or a retired Chief Justice of the United States, or the Speaker of the House of Representatives; from the day of death until interment of an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court, a Secretary of an executive or military department, a former Vice President, or the Governor of a State, territory, or possession; and on the day of death and the following day for a Member of Congress. As used in this subsection - ? (1) the term 'half-staff' means the position of the flag when it is one-half the distance between the top and bottom of the staff; ? (2) the term 'executive or military department' means any agency listed under sections 101 and 102 of title 5; and ? (3) the term 'Member of Congress' means a Senator, a Representative, a Delegate, or the Resident Commissioner from Puerto Rico.

Despite their differences and regardless of the regulations (meaning Trump did abide by the US Flag Code) it does come across as being petty. Man that hurt,,,,, agreeing with YFP..... I'm going to go flog my self.... LOL

If the flag story is accurate, I am disappointed in Trump.

He does not deserve excess attention, when thousands who serve gave/give got/get naughta....

Apparently not, over on the Florida Shooting thread it is all blamed on video games, liberals etc.

I doubt BS represents the thoughts on this issue of the majority of U.S. citizens.

I will leave it at that, I don't want Rock to get all knotted up;)

KPC x 2. So many hurt feelings and suggestions of petty behavior when following the rules was what he did. Don’t be mad at him fellas. Be mad at the jackwagons that broke the flag rules previously.

Although the beat down here is pretty sad, one must consider the source.

Some here would find a way to bitch about free ice cream being given away

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Glad they started sending everyone to fire fighting school. The one in Yokuska was a building built internally like a ship. You had to open knee-knockers and everything to get to the Class A/B/C fires they lit.

Unfortunately, they also, while I was on active duty, were substituting ANY firefighting school as a "check in the box" to cover shipboard firefighting requirements.

I counted on your Peers often, every time my Ordie NCOs had to hang a HARM Missile while assigned to VMAQ-1. The Major at the MALS would always send Gunnery Sergeants to help, since by T.O. my senior Ordnance Man was an E-5 Sergeant. ( HARMs are missiles, right? )

No hitches, no mishaps, with Gunnery Sergeants from your section!!!!!!

;^)

You are obsessed with Paul. You turn almost every post into a reference of him.

If 1 is OK, but 40 is wrong, at what amount does it switch from right to wrong? I bet Trax can do it 49 times and you would not say anything.

KPC

You mean like John McCain doing what he did for political purposes-to get re-elected?

Kevin, I was only saying what I thought was the right thing to do. War pilot, POW, Senator, presidential nominee...

I wish my life and name would be recognized by enough people to even debate the issue upon my death, but sadly like most, that will not happen.

If he was liberal, we all know you would have a problem with it.

Kevin, not going any where. Politicians do what politicians do, including Trump with this flag move. And I don't have a problem when someone changes course because they think it thru. That was my point, not a slam to McCain at all.

He did Kevin in the service of his country what men like you and me will never know if we can. That's what really irked me with Trax today. John took the criticism, agree or disagree, he never hid.

I don't care if I fit the definition of conservative or not by some folks here. I expect folks like Paul to play the game, I expect better from self-proclaimed conservatives. Like a bright person on another thread said, my words, we can't complain about what is going on when we set a bad example.

A sincere thanks to all of you. Most of us are free riders.

Even when Kerry dies I won't speak ill of him. Until then....

Interesting...... Bush and Obama invited to his funeral, I understand asked to speak. Trump was asked not to attend. Which I'd guess is probably fine with him too.....

This man chose to be what he was after his service. He wasn't the local butcher. Politics was his life by choice. Being judged by that comes with the territory. No one gets repeatedly appointed to the senate Gentlemen. He spent his career being judged by his politics by choice. What is so disrespectful about doing it now? Because he died? I ain't buying what some of you are selling. It's baseless.

Slade,

I bet you never served.

Probably pass for indecent exposure, hope there is no kids around or you could end up a sex offender....

"And heres another thing, this whole "your opinion doesn't matter cause you never served" logic is BS!"

I think someone who chickened out of serving (sports to bone spurs) has no right or credibility to judge what a hero is, same goes for his worshippers. You think my opinion is BS, I think your opinion is BS.....

Either disrespectful or a liar I am not really sure but it shows where the lowering of our Morals is coming from, people like our President and many liberals are leading our moral decay....

That said, I had NO problem at all with the joke/zinger Trump threw at McCain saying he preferred guys that were not captured. They were sparring back and forth. It was a funny line. Basic shit talk among competitors. A non issue taken out of context and exaggerated for political effect.

I voted for McCain when he ran for office, but I had concerns about his temperment. His Ukraine policy was bad and might have started WW-III. But to that point (even with the Keating 5 scandal) I was still good with McCain overall, at least more good than bad.

Until that horrible vote he cast to sink the repeal of Obamacare. THAT was the act of a petty man, worse than anything Trump ever said or did to McCain. A brain damaged old man, who finished 2nd to last in his college class. A spiteful dummy getting his revenge and he didn't care how many people would suffer. He had great health care, and was checking out. It was his final F-U to Trump, and to the nation that supported him all those years. That childish last minute stunt with a dramatic "thumbs-down" vote was the same classless bullshit he pulled when ditching his first wife and 3 kids.

A guy can earn your respect. He can also lose it. F-him.

You can hate someone on the football field but after the game it's a different story

It's a job not a passion. It should be a passion but then that's the definition of the swamp

Hated McCains politics especially in the later years As far as his military record he in many ways was a hero and if not that certainly tough as nails I was not with him on the ship so I can't pass judgement on him as to what he did or did not do

He's gone, left a legacy and that's pretty much it. His family and others will miss him. Others will not. I wish the family my best and hope they find the closer that they need to move on.

DD, it should be perfectly clear that I did not suggest John McCain projected any "heroism" in my post.

Call me a fool, but I don't see any indication of cowardice on the Wikipedia bio.

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. . . . and John McCain, who piloted his A4 into withering fire over Hanoi, did nothing heroic according to some on this thread.

Absolutely incredible.

Dirk, you have not mentioned how many pilots came up out of the ready room to fight the Forrestal or Oriskany fires.

Dirk, what you are spreading, McCain ran below deck, is out of context rumor hearsay.

Watch the video I posted above. ANYONE running into that fire not suited up, not covered by a spray of water from the applicator, would meet sudden death.

I went to Avionics Schools in Millington, TN, in 1976 and 1977. Some of my instructors were on the Forrestal during the trial by fire. They never once bad mouthed any Pilot they served with.

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However, I won't stand by and let someone trash their Military record because of their politics.

F-Biden too. Drain the swamp!

"Other men, " just" men also, who may have sacrificed more, much more in their service to this nation, have neither a face nor a voice and Potters Field is their lot, quietly and without fanfare are welcomed into the kingdom of God. The crowd of revelers marches on beating the drum of pomp and circumstance on earth for one "man" but those cymbals will never able to pierce above the clouds a single decibel. Politics continues to enslave that which we are to ONLY believe. How many thousands of needy, truly needy, American children and families could have been fed from the burial coffers of "just" one man who lived a life chest high in gold served by indentured servants over silver spoons and silk sheets. RIP.......John McCain from one man to another...nothing more, nothing less, standing erect, not on my knee's.

The Rock

I live in a very small resort/vacation community in north central mn that most of you will have never heard of. We have a very small 6 man police department that typically does normal, small town police stuff.

Last year one of the local officers was driving one of tge subdivision backroads and seen smoke billowing from a home. He called it in and ran up to the door. Before his backup arrived and after getting no response from banging on the door he kicked it in and ran into the fully burning home. He located 2 somewhat disabled elderly people sound asleep in bed and as his backup arrived and not finding the first officer and seeing tge door open he rushed in.

They carried that married couple from what would have been sure death in just minutes.

for about 6 months most of our town of less than 2500 hadn't heard anything more than there was a house fire.

These guys are my friends, these guys are heroes.

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Some jobs are more dangerous than others, and require "charging a machine gun nest" as Kyle pointed out.

McCain charged that machine gun nest 23 times in his A-4 Skyhawk.

That, in of itself should be enough to consider, when the word hero is used in regards to McCain.

I will tell you, I am just flabergasted at the attitudes on McCain's Military Record from people I used to respect on the CF.

There are enough stories floating around about John McCain both high and low. The truth always seem to fall somewhere in-between. Every pilot engaged the jaws of death in Vietnam no more so than the helicopter pilots, but that is what they were expected to do. As I said previously RIP: John McCain ...the same as I would say for all those who served and sacrificed both known and unknown. No more for John McCain than any other soldier. He was a man and not exceptionally built by the hand of God.

The Rock

As for his long time as a POW, well clearly we are all sympathetic beyond words for anyone who was captured or killed by the enemy and I'll go a step further. If he in fact talked and was the songbird some claim him to be I cant fault or criticize him for that. I cant imagine what he went through and as tough as I would like to believe I could be under similar circumstances you just dont know how you would react.

I do know that a guy my father grew up with and was lifelong buddies with spent time there. Although he and I never discussed that topic my father told me a bit a out it and those guys didnt have it easy. He came home a much different man. Hell I dont even have I'll feelings towards the man for his political differences. People have the right to have different opinions and beliefs than me. When I read he admitted to having several extra marital affairs i lost any respect I may have once had for him.

Only on bowsite does that make someone a liberal...

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Ira Hayes helped raise the flag on Iwo Jima. He died a destitute drunk. Hero or not according to you? Lose respect for him or not, according to you?

I wouldnt call running bombing missions in a jet charging a machine gun nest- not even close. I'm not saying there isnt danger in it but I'd rather be in that jet then on the ground.

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" if in fact they served honorably but just flying combat missions does not make someone a hero in my eyes"

The 8th Air Force comment was directly related to the above two statements from you. I am going to go out on a limb here, and guess that you have never served in a unit with Aircrew that flew missions over Hanoi, while getting shot at by Machine Guns, Anti-Aircraft Artillery, and Surface to Air Missiles.

You sound like you have not a clue on what a contested bombing run is, so I once again suggest you read the History of the 8th Air Force.

Landing a fighter jet on a rolling/pitching aircraft carrier during battle doesn't make him a hero either, but it sure as hell separates the men from the boys!!!

To me the heroic part of John McCain has nothing to do with his service in the Senate and everything to do with his service in the United States military, and that’s why he’s a hero to the American people – what he did in the United States military and what was done to him, and his bravery. And we have a gentleman – I just told you – he’s still a member of the House of Representatives, by the name of Sam Johnson. Outside of Dallas, Texas, the vast majority of the American people have never heard of him. I have had him on the program in the past. And he won’t get a send away like this.

So, why? And again, I don’t want calls on this. Is it because of his votes against Republicans, whether it was on immigration or Obamacare or tax cuts under Bush or things of that sort? I’m quite serious about this. In the election of 2008, most of the same voices we’re hearing today in the media and in the Democratic Party condemned McCain. Some even accused him of being racist – surprise, surprise, that’s what they do – and strongly supported Obama and pushed Obama. You had nasty editorials written about McCain. They would talk about his temper. They would talk about potential—they just went on and on and on. You and I, we’re the ones that voted for McCain, and we lost badly. The main reason is we wanted to stop Obama. But is it because McCain didn’t have fidelity to conservatism or Republicanism, or what is it? It’s incredible. We had this, for two days, these attacks on the president for being cheap, for being low, for being worse, because of the flag not being at half-mast throughout the mourning period. The mourning period, I think, goes through Sunday.

Okay, fine. I understand that – that is, the criticism. But you don’t see the same kind of criticism applied to John McCain or the people who planned his goodbye in slighting Sarah Palin, which really is a mean thing to do. She never said a nasty word about John McCain, even when conservatives were raising questions about what he did and so forth. She never did. When I had her on a couple months ago, on Life, Liberty & Levin, wouldn’t say a negative thing about him. Never did. She was his vice presidential running mate. He picked her. That seems to be a little bit more relevant to me than the flag flying at half-mast through Sunday, and yet you’ll see almost no criticism of this by the same so-called news outlets, the same so-called voices , you know, the same crowd who can’t wait to attack Trump.

But I’m just saying, it seems a little over the top to me, what’s going on, and they’re not done. Today is Thursday, right, Rich? So, we got Friday, Saturday, Sunday. So that’s really a full week. And I want to make abundantly clear—I want to say it again, because people like to twist my words and try to destroy our program—this has nothing to do with animus. It’s an observation. Was it because he was a presidential candidate? Is that what Mitt Romney will get? I don’t know. But I suspect the media attention is more a result of him breaking with orthodox conservatism or traditional conservatism at key points, at which he was very, very helpful to the Democrat Party and the left, which, of course, we know the media embrace. Just one man’s observation.""

Here's one man's observation. There will never be a public funeral for him. He is just jealous cause he was not as good at self promotion. The Great One indead, ha!

The Politics of McCain’s Passing

Derek Hunter

Personally, I have nothing but respect for the military service of the late Senator John McCain of Arizona, who passed away Saturday after a long battle with brain cancer. And I don’t have anything to say about the way his family is mourning his death, people should be given as wide of a berth as they need to handle losing a loved one. It’s the reaction of everyone else in the political sphere with which I take issue.

Feel free to call me a jerk, but when he wasn’t criticizing Republicans, no elected liberal or leftist journalist had anything good to say about the man when he was alive, so it’s a bit odd to see Democrats clamoring to honor him.

Senate Democrats want to rename a Senate office building in his honor. While that may sound nice, it’s opportunistic going into election season for Democrats to be seen as calling for something “bi-partisan” before people vote. They’ve done nothing but obstruct and delay everything they could, now they want to come off as willing to work across the aisle. There was no similar push or non-stop media coverage when Democratic Senator Daniel Inouye died in 2013 and he won the Congressional Medal of Honor and lost an arm in World War II.

In a joint statement, Democratic Minority Leader Chuck Schumer and retiring squish Senator Jeff Flake said, “Renaming the Russell building in his honor ensures that his story will be told with the hope that inspiration becomes motivation and future leaders emerge with his brand of courage and commitment.”

I get that you say nice things about someone when they pass, but Schumer is playing a game here. He wants to stick this in the eyes of Republicans by forcing them to support a Democrat-led action or oppose something honoring McCain at a time when the nation is paying attention. Flake just wants to flip the bird one more time to President Trump, who is the reason he’s not seeking reelection.

Some senators are saying it’s time to pump the brakes on this rush, that they’d be happy to honor McCain somehow, just not right now and not by renaming one of the three Senate office buildings. Journalists, who also only had nice things to say about McCain when he was bucking GOP leadership, are cheerleading this push. They will go wall-to-wall with the coverage of his memorial service and funeral procession, not acknowledging how they demonized him in 2008 when he dared to run against Barack Obama and introduced Sarah Palin to the national scene.

In 2008, Congressman John Lewis compared McCain to racist Democrat George Wallace, now Lewis is singing his praises. The hypocrisy is too much for me. John McCain loved our country and served it his whole life, but you can be a hero without being a saint. And none of us are saints.

I voted for McCain in the 2000 Michigan primary, I found him to be honest and a refreshing change from politics as usual. By 2008, I don’t remember who I voted for in the primary and only voted for him because the alternative was Obama. His most widely-known piece of legislation was the campaign finance law McCain/Feingold. I thought it was unconstitutional and done out of spite over the outside groups that mobilized against him in the 2000 fights against George W Bush. The Supreme Court agreed.

When it comes to honoring McCain, I have no problem with the concept, but I do have an issue with naming buildings after politicians in Washington, DC. If the states senators represented want to honor them by naming anything after them, I’m all for it, and if the Navy wants to name a ship after John McCain (like they have his father), I’m all in. But the names should be stripped from federal buildings.

Times change, what was once acceptable becomes unacceptable as society advances. Senator Richard Brevard Russell, whose name now adorns the building they’re pushing to rename, was a staunch Democrat who opposed civil rights legislation. Why did they honor him in the first place? Who cares? In 50 years people would be wondering why they honored McCain and there will be a push to change the name again. It’s the “circle of politics.”

It’s time to stop. Members of Congress are temporary representatives of “we the people.” They aren’t better than anyone else, and Lord knows they aren’t our moral superiors. If the people in the states they represented want to honor them, good. But no one senator or congressman represents the whole country, no matter how they are portrayed in the media.

The way GW and Obama eulogized McCain reminds us of the good.

There is an absolute shift. Even Fox News is starting to come around. Their coverage of the funeral and their remarks on Obama were very respectful.

Watching trump play golf when an American hero is being celebrated gives us a clue to exactly how out of touch he is from the nation.

It’s Not likely that the eulogies were written with specific consideration of rebuking or coming atTrump directly.

It's just that by the nature of the eulogies which speak to the best qualities of the deceased is easily seen as a reminder that quality doesn't sit in WH currently. Honor, respect, dignity does not sit in the WH.

"A politics that pretends to be big and tough, but is in fact born of fear." Yeah, that's pretty specific, though.

The way GW and Obama eulogized McCain reminds us of the good.

There is an absolute shift. Even Fox News is starting to come around. Their coverage of the funeral and their remarks on Obama were very respectful.

Watching trump play golf when an American hero is being celebrated gives us a clue to exactly how out of touch he is from the nation.

It’s Not likely that the eulogies were written with specific consideration of rebuking or coming atTrump directly.

It's just that by the nature of the eulogies which speak to the best qualities of the deceased is easily seen as a reminder that quality doesn't sit in WH currently. Honor, respect, dignity does not sit in the WH.

"A politics that pretends to be big and tough, but is in fact born of fear." Yeah, that's pretty specific, though.

I give McCain his due for serving in the AF and being a POW.

But after that he just sucked on the political system till the end. And turned into a bitter hateful old guy by not inviting the President and even his VP running mate in the election doesn't speak well of the guy.

such the lazy little liar, always have been

He doesn’t know the meaning. Nor does he care to.

I reserve the right to call those who repeatedly lie, deceive, cheat and are shown to be devoid of any redeeming qualities, the names they deserve.

"I would have been right where that fire broke out, arming the loads and doing pre-flight checks prior to takeoff as an ordinanceman:

ITS ORDNANCE NOT "ORDINANCE"!!!

Any self respecting aviaton ordnancemen, Navy or Marine knows that!

IYAOYAS!

All that was demonstrated is how much free rent the President owns in their minds.

yfplague, bzzzzt, you lose again by kifing another libtard's spew...as a "teacher" how the eff do you rationalize the promotion of blatant plagiarism?

freedumb, yahh well said....by somebody else!

No.

Those two exuded and amplified what is sorely missing. Honor, integrity and selfless service to others.

If you consider that to be anti trump or political, it says everything about you!

Farrakhan was ‘front and center’ at Aretha funeral, but networks made him magically disappear

Not fake news, altered news.

So busted. What a F-ing fraud! HA!!!

I did so because He was a man. A man that was doing what he was supposed to do when he flew that jet. He was a man that deserved credit for doing so as a service man. He was a man doing his job when he became a POW too. He was a man that did a heroic deed when given the opportunity to trade his freedom for his fellow service men's freedom. He was also a man when he chose to self serve himself at the lose of this republic.

However, the sickening thing about the way John McCain has been honored is solely due to the extent it was taken. Most of the people putting on the show over his passing, have absolutely zero reverence for anything that resembles the sacrifice needed to be a hero. It was nothing more then a huge show of elitism and competition for the spot light for the GW's, the Obama's, the Biden's, etc.... From the politicians, to the media reporters and, on to the common citizen; all involved went way over board to celebrate the "hero" they were told he was. However, everyone that took this man farther then simply being a man has done so for their own justification.

He didn't walk on water. He often was a two faced politician. The money, time, effort, and political affiliations that were presented to celebrate his life was nothing more then actions to satisfy the self serving people that needed a heroic event to further their ego. That is it. End of story. Pointing this out does not make me any less of a conservative or a Trumpette. However confusing any of this to justify labeling me as one, shows your own ignorant bias.

Bye.........

The Rock

Will any of our funerals be aired on TV?

Will any of us be grieved by so many?

Sadly, all questions will be answered "no" for me.

My life will never come close to flying a jet multiple times over hostile geography, serving as a POW for years, and upon return dealing with all of that to function as a Senator and candidate for the highest public office.

Not a bad example of how to deal with adversity and still build a life worth remembering.

Yes, he was a man with faults like all of us.

If any of you have done close to the above, please post it. I will recognize you as a hero regardless of your political affiliation.

My grandmother was a hero. She married a man that turned into a drunkard coward that beat and raped her for a better part of 2 decades. She was a mother to 12 children, many produced by those actions. Not once did she do what was best for her by running away from the situation leaving those kids at the mercy of that man. When he died unexpectedly, she raised the better part of those kids by herself. Not one time in her life has she ever accepted one penny of welfare. That is grit and heroic. Yet when she died last year not one TV camera showed up to honor that woman. However, if you ask any of those 12 children or 46 grandchildren, they'll all tell you she was a hero ever single day of their life.

McCain had a large part in planning his own ceremony. The people that partook in it was hand picked, to shine light on him in a way that made him seem super natural. He was nothing more then a man. A hero to some at times but, everyone shares that title at some time in their life. And, it doesn't take a TV camera to make it that way. Quite the opposite truthfully. By pure definition, self serving people fail miserably doing heroic deeds.

God Bless men

Thank you for your kind words, but I have never come close to being a hero.

Your grandmother was a shining example for all of us, and no doubt a true hero to her family. God bless her!

A lot of vets come home from war and have a tough time being productive members of society again. PTSD causes chemical dependency, emotional collapse, suicide etc. Most never experienced the torture John did.

In spite of all he went thru, he rose to very high and responsible positions, along with some human failures along the way.

If I had a son or daughter that accomplished as much after what he experienced, they would be a hero to me.

I agree there are many heroes who never wear a uniform. But there are many who never wear a uniform because they know they are no hero. Then there are those like me, who will never know because we were not tested. John answered the bell. He is a hero.

I agree with you about respecting those who give of themselves daily, faithfully executing their responsibilities to family, country, neighbors.

I believe most do this, including the men and women who put on uniforms and do what many are not capable of or are too willing to let others take the risk. Warriors go above and beyond. I mostly hear your type of words from those that have never served.

I deal weekly with vets. One of my responsibilities at my school is to authorize credit for their service related training and experience. Typically, they are heads and shoulders above.

Thank you vets. I better put the keys to the backhoe back on the hook;)

All of those very positive behaviors and attributes you pointed out with regards to civilians meeting and exceeding responsible conduct, most military do that and then volunteer for the kinds of conditions that only service members know and experienced.

This does not detract from the folks you refer to, only acknowledges that most service members do more.

Hope that helps you understand, but you can keep your comments to yourself;)

Obviously, IMHO applies.

My only point, John fit the definition, flaws and all.

sad, for all those who were used up & forgotten and were way better and deserved way more

The Senate’s Unremembered Ex-POW

His path to distinguished service in the United States Senate led through the Naval Academy, aerial combat over hostile territory, and long years of confinement, beatings, and torture in the Hanoi Hilton.

He was a man worth remembering.

No, his name was not John McCain.

Six years before McCain’s election to the Senate, Alabama voters sent retired Rear Admiral Jeremiah Denton to Washington’s upper chamber.

Both the parallels and the divergences in Denton and McCain’s lives tell something about the last few decades of our political history.

Twelve years older than McCain, Denton was born in Mobile in 1924, the same year as George Herbert Walker Bush. After studies at the Jesuits’ Spring Hill College, Denton transferred to Annapolis where in 1946 he graduated in a class that included a young man from Americus, Georgia, named Jimmy Carter. Denton excelled academically, earning a master’s in international relations from George Washington University and winning the Naval War College’s award for best thesis. Diligent in his study of philosophy and history, he was respected as a strategic thinker.

Denton, at 41, was one of the oldest active American pilots in Vietnam when his A6A Intruder, leading a squadron of 27 other aircraft, was shot down over North Vietnam in 1965. (His friend and contemporary, George H.W. Bush, meanwhile was one of the youngest American pilots in the Second World War.)

McCain, the son and grandson of four-star admirals, was erratic as a student at Annapolis. He graduated number 894 out of 899 members of his class. When he was shot down in 1967 he was 31 years old.

Denton suffered imprisonment for nearly eight years, McCain for nearly six. Both men gained national and international attention for defiant courage during their ordeals. As son of the admiral commanding the U.S. Pacific fleet, McCain spurned Communist Vietnamese efforts to manipulate him for propaganda purposes. Denton, as one of the top-ranking officers, outwitted the enemy when they featured him in a televised propaganda news conference. Unbeknownst to his captors, he blinked his eyes with the Morse Code letters T-O-R-T-U-R-E as he answered questions.

After their release in 1973, Denton and McCain continued naval service. Denton was promoted to rear admiral and served as commandant of the Armed Services Staff College before retiring in 1977. McCain overcame catastrophic injuries and torture to return to the air pilot’s seat. In 1977, the Navy assigned him to Capitol Hill as its liaison (de facto lobbyist) to the Senate.

In civilian life, Denton found a place as one of the first Catholic intellectuals to make common cause with the populist, largely Evangelical Protestant “religious right” of Jerry Falwell’s Moral Majority and Pat Robertson’s movement. He moved to his native Mobile, where he turned down suggestions to run for the Senate in 1978 for the seat won that year by Democrat Howell Heflin.

Two years later, Denton decided to run for the Senate as a Republican. Despite a huge disadvantage in fundraising, he stunned the GOP establishment by winning the primary against its anointed favorite, a former Democratic congressman who had switched parties after leaving office and as the conservative state gravitated towards the Republican column.

He campaigned effectively on his pro-life, pro-family issues platform as well as his well-informed critique of the national security record of his Annapolis classmate Carter. When Reagan defeated Carter in November, Denton squeaked into office as the first Alabama Republican in history to win direct popular election to the Senate.

The national mainstream media welcomed Senator Denton to the capital with the same sort of respect and affection they always have shown to other Alabama social-issues conservatives such as Roy Moore or the pre-recusant Jeff Sessions.

Big Media mocked his first signature effort at legislation, the Adolescent Family Life Act. His proposal was an adaptation of existing legislation enacted under sponsorship of Democratic icon Ted Kennedy. Denton’s bill modified the Kennedy program to increase emphasis on reaching teenagers before they had sexual experience with the message that abstinence is not to be devalued as a means of preventing pregnancy and disease.

Denton shrewdly enlisted support from Kennedy’s sister, Eunice Shriver. Kennedy cooperated with Denton in passage of the bill. Ignoring the overwhelming support Denton negotiated, the cultural left had a raucous good time lampooning his efforts. No clearer sign of the times was that Garry Trudeau devoted an entire Sunday “Doonesbury” ridiculing Denton’s “chastity bill.”

In this and other instances, Denton worked carefully and discreetly to bring about success for conservative policies through sincere bipartisan negotiation.

This contrasts with McCain’s vaunted reputation for what his apologists wrongly called bipartisanship. What McCain actually did, again and again, was to sabotage consensus within his own party out of an impulse for gaining attention and increasing his negotiating position in regard to other interests.

With no discernible principle or regard for the public interest on his side, McCain single-handedly sabotaged the repeal of Obamacare. No one can say honestly that his motivation was anything other than spite for President Trump.

McCain showed this character trait throughout his Senate career, even when the issues were more arcane — although extremely important to special interests — and were not gaining top-of-the-news publicity. This is something I witnessed in 1995, when I was communications director of the Senate Commerce Committee. Superficially, the committee was divided into two caucuses, the Republican majority and the Democratic minority. Beneath the surface, there was a third caucus: McCain.

Before my tenure on the Senate staff, I had never been a fan of Bob Dole, who was uncharismatic and inarticulate compared with the gold standard, Ronald Reagan. But in 1995 I had occasion to see and hear Bob Dole as the masterful political leader that he was in his proper venue.

Behind the closed doors of the majority leader’s office, I observed as Dole brilliantly performed tedious but important work, forging consensus on legislation among senators as individually powerful and politically disparate as Bob Packwood and Jesse Helms, Ted Stevens and Trent Lott. These extremely powerful men submitted to Bob Dole’s leadership to bring about consensus on important legislation. This kind of exercise in party loyalty was edifying, and it was for the public good. It evinces clarity, coherence, and a certain amount of respect for the will of the voters.

This was not John McCain’s way. He insisted on a playing a game of self-aggrandizement, all by himself.

Jeremiah Denton ran a complacent and half-hearted re-election campaign in 1986. Still, he was almost re-elected. In a wave election that removed all of the Republican senators who had been newly elected with Reagan’s 1980 victory, Denton managed to lose by one of the narrowest margins in history. The winner in November was a moderate Democratic congressman, Richard Shelby. Eight years later, Shelby switched to the Republican Party and has been a reliable conservative vote in the Senate ever since.

That same November, John McCain won the Arizona Senate seat vacated by the retirement of Barry Goldwater.

When January came around, Denton and McCain became lifelong swamp dwellers. The latter became a fixture in the green rooms and cocktail parties of Washington’s “Permanent Village,” while the former literally went fishing, retiring to an angler’s life on a lazy bayou beside his modest dwelling amid the Gulf Coast marshes outside of Mobile.

What if Denton had remained in the Senate alongside McCain?

I believe he would have stayed consistent with the values and priorities he stressed during his only term in office, while accruing the added power that comes with seniority.

Both men proclaimed their patriotism and their support for an internationalism led by American strength. But a critical difference between Denton and McCain was in the deeper meaning of these affirmations.

Another difference is in the 32 years since Denton left the Senate and McCain joined it. Today the “West” no longer has the Soviet threat to unite it for self-defense. During the past three decades, too, Western Europe and the United States have become drastically more deracinated, more catastrophically cut off from their Christian roots.

Denton’s cause was explicitly the preservation of Western Civilization. As he understood it, this was a civilization with deep, ancient, theological, philosophical, and cultural roots. This traditional order for which Denton fought and legislated, which scarcely exists anymore, is about much more than democracy, even much more than liberty.

McCain’s attachment was to a shallower, less developed political posture.It was a conflation of militaristic American patriotism with international ideological campaigns for installing democratic electoral systems anywhere and everywhere, even where plainly there exists no cultural environment in which true democracy or the rule of law might take root.

At the intellectual level, the defining difference was between solid substance and hollow form, between reality and ideology.

Another difference was in character. Senators normally have very big egos, and Denton was normal in this sense. McCain was an outlier — an extraordinary egomaniac — even within a universe of enormous egos.

Jeremiah Denton died in 2014 at the age of 89. He was buried with full military honors at Arlington National Cemetery. His funeral did not preempt television coverage of soap-operas, sitcoms, or sporting events. His pallbearers did not include Warren Beatty, but no one, obscure or famous, was told not to attend the ceremony.

Most people think Trump Hates McCain because of the Obamacare Repeal Vote.

The real reason Trump hates McCain is because McCain is responsible for saving our nation from Russian influence.

That’s right...McCain played a vital role in passing along the Steel Dossier to the FBI

History will mark McCain as a patriot hero. Trump as a treasonous criminal

I suspect Sen McCain thought he had a Trump "gotcha" moment with the phony dossier. It appears McCain believed the fake dossier and got bit for it. Shame on him. His actions put him in a bad light.

""History will mark McCain as a patriot hero. Trump as a treasonous criminal ""

Maybe..maybe not. Sen McCain will always have an asterisk or "Note" after the word Hero. If Trump is convicted of any "high crimes" then he should be removed from office....just like any other President should be. Prez Clinton should have been removed for perjury but the Senate Dems looked the other way. Otherwise....if Prez Trump stays on the same track, he will go down in one of the most successful Prez's in recent history WRT getting things accomplished. If you look at the list of things he has accomplished thus far, it is pretty long.

Jim?? Who is Jim McCain??

Precisely.

From American Thinker-

Once, when we had some 30-somethings at our house, we noticed a Bob Hope movie was on the television in the other room. We commented on it and were shocked when both of the 30-somethings said “…who’s Bob Hope?”

30 years from now, there will be 30-somethings who will say “…who’s John McCain?”

They will, however, know just who Donald Trump was.

more

It gives me great comfort knowing that this is the truth.

Who the hell is John McCain?

"My biggest hero is my dad. He never served his country but he serves his family."

My hat to the good son who recognizes and worships great men.

The Rock