The Donald had a reputation before the election. I remember some of the hostility here over things like trying to take the little old lady's home for his casino parking lot. And giving lots of cash to Democrats, something I have never done. Throw in all of the affais while married...I am getting a picture of a man with a lot of enemies.
It is still wrong, unacceptable if the conspiracy against him proves even partially true. But, we have never seen the vitriol so extreme. It has to be more than just politics as usual.
I am still not convinced he is a man of deep conservative convictions, but so far I have been pleasantly surprised. With the economy in such good shape (?) you think his approval would be solidly over 50 in the Real Clear poll.
Is it just the bitterly divided country accounting for all the hate, or something else?
All others may either accelerate of decelerate the dash toward immorality and/or socialism, but the trajectory does not change.
Read YOUR post through and thoroughly and all the answers that you have provided to the questions in that post in questionable form. C'mon. You had me for a moment thinking MAYBE you were better than that. I will pass off that stumble of mine to old age.
The Rock
The Rock
Here’s more! Water is wet and fire burns.
Trump should’ve never ran. I’m 100%certain he regrets it. He was living a lavish lifestyle. Banging whoever he wants, cheating workers, paying off people, threatening lawsuits to whoever crossed him and generally being an awful human.
Except now he’s under a microscope. Every move he has made or makes is scrutinized. As it should be.
He is the so called leader of the free world. His words matter. His actions matter. And yes his past matters.
but hay, at least you didn't steal the words from a literate this time
Then again, why would you care?
The Rock
I do work in one of the most affluent counties in the nation, in one of the largest community colleges, both physically and student enrollment, in the nation.
Love to go to our farm in very rural, very modest area every chance I get.
Robin and I were privileged to be invited to dinner to celebrate my farmer neighbor son's 21st birthday this past weekend. We were the only non-family there, and being only neighbors on weekends were honored.
20 people attended, 16 adults. About evenly split in their support of Trump. One, as KPC puts it, all in, all the time. The rest were balanced on his strengths and disappointments.
All had significant monetary ties to farming. Some expressed concern over the tariffs and directly tied it to soybean prices as low as $7/bushel.
One said get ready for my farm's value to take a hit. What will that decreased value do to the economy?
A banker up there told me between the tariffs and drought he expects a number of young new farmers to go under this year.
Rock, Justin, I talk with a lot of folks from all walks of life. That is what prompted this thread.
Things look great now, but it may be more fragile than we recognize.
Life as in marriage offers no guarantees. Farmers may very well endure pain both temporary and permanent. The nation in its entirety will never profit 100% from policy decisions no matter the PresIdent or party in power. Some will be hit harder and deeper than others but the vast majority of people under the Trump Doctrine business model will benefit. Trump will not leave the farmers out to twist and will devise a safety net to break their fall. They must realize the bigger picture and greater good of his policies will eventually benefit them. Let's face facts. People MUST eat. No one of sound economic thinking and experience of the financial cycle our nation experiences on a cyclical basis believes the numbers that we are now blessed with will continue unabated. The brakes will be applied to catch our breath and then continue once again on the upward trend. Too many chickens in too many pots has proven disastrous.
The Rock
My gut on the President Trump thing... Is that you can be an athoritative leader and create massive change. But with an athoritarian style (style, not governmental structure), short term for blunt challenges you can make things change. Long term... Not so much.
A great leader - at a much smaller level - Coach John Wooden of UCLA fame is often revered and written about for the role he had in the evolution of servant leadership. People often believe Wooden was always there. That's not true. While he slid into that athoritative servant role as a leader as he learned and grew, he started out very athoritarian... It worked to a point with the simplicity of lower level ball, but as things became more challenging, complex, and full of greater talent, he saw it was going to fail. And he sought out better strategies...
Ultimately that is what we now call "Servant Leadership".
That leadership style works at all levels. It helps maximize the sense of self determination of those being lead. It can be authoritative, or use other strategies.
But it's not athoritarian, which appears to be the style President Trump applies.
So, yes, I think one issue is President Trumps leadership style...
But I think he also just had a lot of baggage coming in. I mean, one could argue politicians are often morally lacking etc... This comment has NOTHING to do with who was running or could in 20 run for the Dems. Then candidate Trump had to be one of the most known entities going in to the election in terms of his lifestyle and history. Some either dont care or felt things they deemed positive outweighed it. Fine. But it seems nearly inarguable that there wasn't a lot of stuff out there that could get folks irritated.
Of those 15 or 16 Republicans running for president... I dont know that any could have beaten Clinton, or even Bernie had he be the nominee... But I often wonder if that bunch of men and women running for the Repub nomination would get the same backing or bashing from either side had they won?
Say Ted Cruz or John Kasich had won the nomination and become President. Pure hypothetical. Would people on either side be as deeply involved? My gut say's a much smaller percent, the far extremes.
And that is, in my view, based on President Trump's approach to leadership and his history professionally and socially, why his presidency comes with so much socio-cultural challenge... If an election is an electrical outlet... your better off with a plug than a fork when you consider what to plug in. For some reason, both parties picked forks in 16...
We agree on much. Tariffs were a major culprit in the Great One. It is not far fetched to me to see a reverse wealth effect from low crop prices hurting land values across the nation.
Throw in continued higher fuel prices, corporate profits take a hit and the wealth effect carries over to the stock market. Even a mid-term election where Republicans lose the House but still retain the Senate could be enough to rattle the markets.
Throw in the social unrest on several fronts, global tensions on the increase and we might hit a bump.
Our national security agencies are cause for concern. If the hate for Trump is pervasive, might they look the other way on any impending act?
I still believe, but I would like to see less emphasis on Russia, collusion, affairs etc., and more focus on the economy.
Yes, and great thoughts! Love the dialogue, especially one that has used information but formed their own thoughts.
Thanks!!
However, I'm happy with him as president. I want someone who is willing to do what it takes to get the job done and he's been doing what I think is good for our country so far. The alternative was Hillary and she f-ing sucks so there's that.
I believe a lot of people have similar thoughts. As Rock pointed out, the cycle will inevitably turn in the other direction. When that happens, a lot of folks will realize...
Henry, you continue to prove you are a simpleton. Trump changing the nation's moral path for the better, thanks for a good laugh.
Don't worry, you are not one;)
Justin, Kevin, I said it because Henry and I both know he likes to take his shots, but they are camoflauged. So I responded back the same way Trump would, a frontal assault. And look at the reaction. When he does you all have a toga party.
Did I make my point Kevin?
Sureshot has a very valid point, one why I have always supported leasing for recreational actvities. If farmers can make some profit off of marginal ground, they might leave it alone. I really believe in my handle.
Back to the point, frontal assaults don't feel good to anyone. Yet tons of support here for it when Trump does it. Henry, was this Christ's example? I remember his anger in the temple, but that was rare.
Just one minor example, Trump had to tweet back to Iran because he can't help himself. Gas prices went up 20 cents just in time for Labor Day. This could have been handled back door channels, same message, better results. And yes I already know prices go up each summer Holiday, but not by that amount.
Trump, keep the attitude, it is working. Learn to not tweet everything you think.
Blast away.
"immorality and/or socialism"
Did you misread, or are you just wanting to criticize me?
However, the trump administration has taken a different stance on religious freedom than the previous administration.
Can you not separate the person from the administration?
While obama had a moral public persona, it would be impossible to successfully argue that his administration promoted a more moral America.
While trump has an obviously immoral personal history, his administration has so far worked for a more moral America in several areas.
You are mistaken, the agent of change is critical. I am still waiting for Trump's style to enlist the support of people outside his own party as RR accomplished.
Please go back and read it again, slower, with the understanding that I am not always referring directly to you.
Equal rights is a moral issue. Obama worked for that, with disastrous results, maybe because of his own lack of experience/incompetence.
No doubt Trump's behavior also has an effect on the moral behavior of others, including within his administration. This must be considered as well as what his policies are trying to accomplish.
You have heard of leadership by example I assume?
Henry, not wanting to just criticize you. Our two very different sides of the state we live in are reflected in our exchanges. I was glad when you acknowledged on the Occupation thread there are a lot of very bright and experienced folks here, and had some humility in doing so. We all need to remember that. I believe you sometimes get frustrated with folks you think talk too much. Me, I realize how much smarter most are here and love to engage them. Like finding things out such as Pig Doctor attending the Naval Academy. Impressive stuff like that appears when we discuss more than politics.
And maybe to outsiders, it helps the image of hunters?
Following His teachings is very tough for all of us, I proved my own shortcomings on this thread alone. So have others, my opinion.
Yes, the post started with two names, but when I referenced a toga party, a no-brainer would realize a party is more than two people. I know you know what I was referring to.
I will answer 'probably', as long as you parse every word looking for every exception, our dance will go on. Neither of us are likely to change, especially not me since I am right;).
Going back to the topic of when I was blunt to Henry. If you were being honest, something you like to question in others, you would have recognized his insult with the meme suggesting if we don't like Trump, go to Canada. I thought real conservatives believed in the cherished right to protest?
Selective in your criticism? I think so.
I have to go for now so you will have to dance solo;)
Kevin, I hope by now you know what to take as kidding?
Get your panties out of a bunch. For a man that claims to be the antalytical thinker and debater you do, you sure seem to get your feather ruffled pretty easy.
Just got back.
BS back at you. I referenced that one line, I am referring to many posts from many threads.
Nice try yourself, still think you know more than everyone.
I mentioned the meme to say you were not critical of that criticism, but were critical of mine. That point had nothing to do with Henry, but with you. It does not matter that they occurred when and where they did, you just selected to point out my criticism. Your analytical skills suck Kevin.
You and I will never see eye to eye. I suspect I am a lot shorter.
I don't know why you think my panties are in a bunch, what is it with that expression anyway? But, I do hate when threads get off track, and I do admit I am a culprit at times getting tangled up with Kevin and his constant need to parse words and tell others what they meant. Maybe he needs to go back to school, cause his crap ain't selling here.
Hope everyone feels better now:)
Clarify something for me please. Were you not the member who left this forum a year or so back saying you'd never return? I'm not suggesting that you should leave if you were. And, I may be wrong. I'm just wandering how long you intend to be taken seriously if you continue acting this way. And, I'm trying my best to understand why you consider your peers here to be the intelligent equivalent to one of your intimidated students. Who you seem no doubt intent to keep in their place of fearful complacence with your condescending tone.
Seriously Frank, you aren't intelligibly impressing anyone with your actions. Keep it up if you must. But, it won't be long before you find yourself not worth the reply if you do. You can drop the smiley faces too. Your actions aren't nearly as cute as you think. Because getting the last word is only important if you leave the conversation on a note that Illustrates the point. Not your ego.
I'll retire now and look for your answer of whether you were the one I was referring to about declaring your departure forever.
A lot to answer, so I will miss something no doubt. Not intentionally.
Yes, I left some time back and said I would not return. Don't know if it was a year or not, so not trying to be coy. And I never even opened the CF for a long time.
I remember I predicted Cruz would not be the nominee and Hillary would not be president. I was not here to gloat for that so I believe it was longer than a year.
I am the same height, and would look you right in the eye. Please, don't pull that crap Ok? I get tired of keyboard tough guys.
Regarding Kevin, sorry but I consider his behavior obnoxious. Mostly it is style. When I respond it typically is not to one specific post, but on balance what a person portrays over time. Kevin likes to underline, bold etc. to pick apart what a person says, and too often tell them what they meant.
I start threads like this to have a discussion on something I am generally interested in hearing others respond to. It offers insight into the way and why they think the way they do. Now, I admit that I share blame, please read that again.
But, watch Kevin, he has a habit of picking something apart and tearing into so that soon the thread is an argument with him, not about the original intent. He can't help himself, and neither can I.
I put the smiley faces so people know when I am using humor, even when it is sarcasm. I don't think you are students, I had a similar discussion with friends yesterday. I like the mental exercise. The same political rhetoric doesn't do anything for me.
I need to go back and read what else you asked. Be right back.
I am no GJ. He is much brighter, and I am no liberal.
My students are not intimidated. Probably because we extend each other mutual respect, unlike here.
Now Justin and Kevin, you have your own things to work on. Justin, it is not ego, I have many opportunity areas but one is not self awareness. I am comfortable being me, and give back as good as I get. Amazes me how many men live their entire lives not being comfortable in their own skin. I have had a lot of failures, but never one for lack of trying. In my book, it is OK to fail if you gave it your best. Everyone of us has limitations. I was not being humble in my response to you when you said I was a hero. No, I am not, and never will be. Just an average guy who applies himself and feels no need to bow down to anyone.
My wife was thinking of dropping college when she was in dental hygiene school. When she asked my opinion, I responded by saying it is OK for them to drop you, but not OK to quit. You will spend the rest of your life not knowing, and making excuses. She graduated with honors, and at the top with her National Boards.
Hope that helps. I would like to have more discussions on interesting, to me at least, topics. I will always be respectful until disrespected. Hope that is fair?
Kevin, I did not change. Initially when I came back I avoided controversial topics. But the toga party over Trump is just too much.
I did change one view. I know I admitted this before you call me dishonest again. I was very judgmental about police behavior. After some time of being open minded, reading, observing, I do believe LE in many cases has become overly cautious to the detriment of themselves and quite possibly society. I know I stated this, and have also stated I have no problem with people changing their positions as they gain new knowledge, including politicians.
Justin, again if I missed anything it was not intentional. I left, said I would not come back, and did. I did not live by my word. I gave Kyle crap for that once and have been surprised he did not give it back, yet;)
I do not come looking for a fight. On the Virgin thread there are people who disagree. I am used to that daily.
What irks me and causes a rise, is the people who can only handle disagreement with name calling and insults.
I am going to send you a short PM.
I am going to make a gallant effort, after this post AM, to not respond to your pokes at my integrity. Maybe some day we can talk in person? A man is better able to gauge another that way.
I promise you that it was not aimed at you unless you stated before the election that you would move to Canada if trump won.
If you ever made such a statement, I would be very surprised and I definitely do not remember you saying it.
I truly couldn't remember if it was you that had left. I thought it was and, I have reasons for asking that.
I gotta say though, you are quite wrong about giving what you get. Its been my observation whether you are critiquing police officers or presidents, your whole purpose is to create friction. It gives you meaning I suppose. It'd be entirely different if you didn't work so hard at it. So, trust me when I say your attempts to come off as a hard ball is lost with the continued questions if you have made yourself clear and repeated apologies for being "Frank". Quite frankly you have made yourself extremely clear. You get your jolly's acting like a horse's rear end. Then purposely mislabeling it as debate, intuitive thought, mental exercise etc.... is simply your way of justifying it.
As Kevin said, keep telling your story. We all get it. You like to appear humble while seeking every opportunity to talk about yourself. I'm not attacking your character either. It is what it is and, you are what you are. I just figured since you want to make everything about what you'd like us all to think it is, I'd just go ahead and tell you what it is instead.
On multiple occasions you have been quite frank yourself, and then shortly, apologize.
I am the same person in person. It is just my personality, and I make no apologies about it.
If you think it is about me, how many times have you picked up on me mentioning something we learned from someone who posted information here? Or said something about someone I know who is more accomplished, like GG?
Example, Pig Doctor and the naval academy. After we have PMed several times, I was shocked I did not know that about him. I am always impressed by those who were accepted, I applied for the Congressional recommendations and did not receive them. It is an extreme honor to get in, I could not. (West Point)
I am as comfortable talking about my failures. Candidly, most of you trying to play internet psychologist are off the mark, by a long shot.
The Occupation thread was one of my favorite for just that. My reaction, I wish more of those brainiacs posted here. God, would we learn or what?
God Bless brothers
Liberal Leftists seem quick to make promises they have no intention of keeping.....making outrageous promises just to show you how SERIOUS! they are.... or, would be..... if, well, nevermind....
They quickly turn on them just as PutZ did when he said if Trump won he would never be back. They justify not keeping their word by declaring they never thought he would win at the time they made the statement, you know, the one made to show how serious they are. So it doesn't count. It's all about the "show" or more accurately.... the drama. And one more reason to not take anything they say seriously. Liberal/Leftist logic on display......
