The first time I feel I was really ever explicitly exposed to initiatives around Diversity and Inclusion was when I went to work in the private sector, not during my education. I graduated college nearly 20 years ago, so who knows, maybe things change. But if that's the case, it they could be changing because these are the types of things that the industries and companies that the eventual college graduates are going to go work in are looking for. I know D&I is still a HUGE part of my industry and company.
Can’t imagine what I would have encountered in a coastal college!
He brings up some valid points, but leaves me with more questions than answers. For example, what dynamic in our society caused the radical leftists of the '60s to become our college professors today, as Peterson claims? Is that generalization even accurate? If so, to what degree, and why? Most '60s hippies that I know certainly did NOT become college educators, nor do they fit into the "post-modernist" label that Peterson describes.
Not only does Peterson generalize and label these college professors, he then definitively tells us what these people are thinking, what ideologies they subscribe to, and what ultimate goals they hope to achieve. I never put much credence in someone who claims to know what others are thinking. Again, I don't know a single college professor who subscribes to the "post-modernist" ideologies that Peterson claims they do.
Second, Peterson eloquently identifies what he perceives as the problems, and provides historical evidence to support his theories, but I didn't glean much in the way of solutions from him. Exactly how do we "stop" the course of this so-called post-modernistic ideology, if it actually exists?
Overall, as with most of Peterson's videos, I find this one some-what thought provoking, but lacking substance, proof, and solutions.
Matt
Most of my classes in college were science and math based so there really isn't much space to share those political views in the context of a Thermodynamics or Organic Chemistry class. I've also taken a lot of finance related classes in undergrad and getting my MBA -- I would say that the overwhelming majority of my professors in these classes were pro-business, pro-free market, and most likely voted Republican.
Like I said, the largest exposure I ever had to diversity and inclusion in the context of what Mr. Peterson is talking about is when I went to work. To that end (based on my experience), if D&I holds a bigger presence on college campuses, I think it's a response to what industry is looking for, not because of some liberal agenda being driven by radical college professors.
Having done a bit of college recruiting for my company, I know the type of feedback we give to Universities related to what we're looking for in potential candidates and I know those Universities take that feedback to heart. There is zero benefit to Universities to produce a bunch of unhire-able talent - they want their graduates employed so that those graduates will keep the donations coming back to the University. They collect tuition for four years - they receive gifts and donations for a lifetime.
The same would be true for government, media, and entertainment.
Leftists have also infiltrated many other organizations and institutions. For example, most church organizations are manned by people more left than the typical congregant. Union organizations are more left than union members.
There are dangerous people teaching your kids. There are also many good people who are educators because they honestly want to help students on their journey to a happy and successful adulthood.
I knew I'd get a rebuttal from you. You obviously hold Peterson in a very high regard. I don't so much.
My oldest sister, who has a doctorate in law, and graduated at the very top of her class at CU, has taught several college courses there. I'd put her intellect up against Peterson's any day and twice on Sundays. As you know, CU is known to be a liberal bastion. I've had numerous conversations with my sister about hers and her colleagues political mindsets. So, I feel I have a certain level of understanding on this subject that goes beyond just an old architect opining about political ideologies.
My sister certainly sits left of me on the political scale, but none of Peterson's generalizations apply to her, or the vast majority of professors she works with. That may be anecdotal, but no more so than Peterson's accounts are, IMO.
Anyway, it's always a pleasure to step outside our respective areas of expertise and discuss a subject with you, Kevin. Even though we often disagree, I always respect and value your opinions.
Matt
What's even more hillarious is they have the audacity to think we [students] are there for them and that we [students] are at their beck and call, should esteem them a deity, and pay them homage for the honor of being in their class.
Wrong! Last time I checked, I was the one paying to be there and not them. They worked for me, not the other way around. I told my digital logic professor that one time, all tongue in cheek of course...
I too was a science/eng major. These are the types of courses (Poli Sci) you need take when you are at a "liberal arts" school. They were called non-core classes.
I often talk with my kids about how fair and equal are not the same. I found myself thinking of that while watching the video. I do believe, that some social movement's or areas of it, push to far/hard for equal, forgetting that equal is not fair. That gets murky. Title IX for example. I'm all for it. 100%. It does mean some boy's/men's sports have to fade in order for there to be money for girl's/women's sports. I believe that there is certainly plenty of value there, in that social movement so to speak, to make Title IX worth the risk to some male sports.
Is that fair? No. But it's not fair that the girl's were not given a shot historically, either.
Equal is precise, clean and neat - 50-50. Fair is often ugly, hard to handle, and messy. 80-20 can be fair, for example.
Many of the social movements of today are descendants of those in the recent past, which recognized that certain groups were not given fair or equal treatment. So, is it fair that a white male (oppressor via the video) may not get into X college of his choice or get X job he does well interviewing for, but a woman of color is given that position or college acceptance - all other things being equal? No.
And that creates a lot of friction.
At the same time, she rarely if ever would have gotten so much as a look in the recent past simply because she was 1.) female and 2.) of color.
What would change that situation without some level of governmental interference? A strong argument could be made for nothing - hence all sorts of equal rights battles and governmental policy generation over the years. (You could also look at environmental regulation on business as another example of government needing to step in) It stinks that it comes to that, but there really were concrete reasons for pressure to build on governments to help with social engineering in these situations, things were not going to change without it. I'm confident every woman who votes today and every person of color who votes today would agree with that.
What's become a challenge - to me at least - is that the outliers make things look very extreme. You get people trying to force things, and it's to much, it pushes people away.
As I think GG and BEG noted above, perhaps someone else, I never had a college professor who "indoctrinated" left. I had one who openly pushed conservative ideas during an undergrad bio course. I dont remember it in HS either, or grade school, though that was a LONG time ago :)
Is the guy a conservative thinker? I saw he was a psych prof, but I've not seen his stuff prior to now.
Runaway student loan debt allows students to stay in school. In fact, by staying in school, they are able to put off making any repayment of student debt.
The longer students stay, the more likely they are to lean left. It may or may not be cause/effect.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't you posted Peterson videos here in the past? If not, I seem to recall you've spoken highly of him. IIRC, he did a video on the death of masculinity, or something to that affect, that was posted here. It got mixed reviews too.
Anyway, that's where I got the impression you held him in high regard, not necessarily from your comments on this thread. Please forgive me, if I'm wrong. Hyperbole is certainly not "my thing".
I think much of my problem with Peterson is he tries so hard to sound intellectual. I think he loses a large audiance by doing that. Like when Rocco get's into his Pluto routine, and his posts become indecipherable. And he's always soooo somber. I've never seen him even crack a smile on his videos, but I have seen him cry. He just doesn't come across as a happy individual to me, but rather a dude who could swallow a bullet at any time. I don't find that particularly inspiring.
To each his own. It would be a boring world, if we all thought alike.
Matt
Maybe they aren't in the majority...... but from his angle they are in his face every day. Because that's what leftist social justice warriors do.
I shudder when educators reinforce stereotypes. Like society, there are conservatives and liberals everywhere, including college campuses. Like others pointed out, political leanings probably have a relationship to some extent to the subject matter taught. I chair the business program in a rino, affluent area. Most of my professors lean right, all have business experience.
Two in the sociology department de-friended me. One is a declared communist, with a Chinese flag in his office and a braided pony tail down past his belt. I have a Marine Corps flag in mine, and mostly no hair.
Students should be exposed to it all, legal and moral all. How can I defend what I believe if I have never been exposed to what others think?
Critical thinking skills are not developed by hearing what you already believe, and only what you believe, repeatedly. People might claim they spent years in education, but it did them little good participating with a closed mind.
Yes, family is critical as stated above. Discuss what is being taught to them. That is also education.
Competition for higher education students is intense, unlike what was stated above we work dillegently to attract students. As both state and federal funding have fallen, keeping tuition affordable is critical.
Just last Monday I finalized a deal with KC's largest employer, a name all would recognize. I was able to do this through a relationship I developed with the COO when he was a customer of mine with my small company. I first invited him to sit on our Advisory Board, the purpose of which is for companies to provide feedback to us on what students need to be taught. Within one year I forced through a curriculum change of increasing Business Ethics from a one credit to three credit hour course as a direct result of their input. If we have solid relationships with employers, we will attract students. Most, if not all colleges have advisory boards, and listen to them.
Right now our Faculty Association, read that as NEA Union affiliate, is at impasse with the administration over not willing to accept a fair offer that administrators and staff were given. I sent our president an email stating KS is a right to work state, I am not an FA member and respectfully request to unilaterally accept the contract offered. He contacted me, and as some labor lawyers know here, I created a situation. If I garner enough support, it could end up to decertification. Having experience with Teamsters, I knew it when I sent it. Guess what, a lot of the young professors are wanting me to push it. Very few of the senior faculty. Not going to draw conclusions from this one experience, but at least I can say many of our youngest faculty more recently experiencing college culture seem to be OK.
One last thing, the FA officers refused the offer. I requested through our campus-wide list serve for them to take a poll on what the membership wanted. They refused, admitting privately they would lose the vote. Yep, some educators are not only dangerous, but self serving as well. Are we any different than any other profession in that regard?
Now that's funny right there, and made me smile. You should teach that technique to Mr. Somber Pants JP. ;-)
Gflight, I agree with you. I don't think most college kids are as maleable as some think. I usually knew when a teacher was pushing an opinion or an agenda over facts, and I think most of my classmates did too. Sure, there are exceptions, but I think most kids already have at least a foundation for their political beliefs before they get to college as a result of their upbringing. At least they did in my family.
Matt
Matt
And there-in lies the root of the problem that Peterson blames on educators. If kids are "learning" their political identity from college professors, something is/was seriously broke at home, IMO.
So, what is causing the lack of parenting in our society?
Matt
My response was always "depends on how high the bridge is. But I will always let someone go first to see whether it is fun or dangerous, and then decide."
My dad would just shake his head and mumble "we should have stopped at two."
Then again, my father was fond of saying, "You think you're funny?"
These people are not even pretending they are “teaching” our kids.
What they are doing, as Paul Zeidan proved with his very first thread ever here, are INDOCTRINATING our kids with their Hate America/Socialism ROCKS liberal doctrine
Paul is just one of the several teachers that participate here. I have not observed any other as left as him. Most here are center-right to right. Why does his nonsense draw so much attention?
Unfortunately, those who simply consume and regurgitate what they already believe tend to look with disdain on anyone who doesn't do the same.
KPC
Best quote here IMO, and on display regularly on BS.
Wondering whether elementary school students are truly indoctrinated in the left wing agenda? Well, wonder no more. They are; and it's worse -- far worse -- than you can possibly imagine...
Read it and weep...
On the other hand, we have a group of social workers that work out of our school "counseling" kids, (some special setup started several years ago by a previous administration). One of these workers told our resource officer that she believed a particular student's main problem was "His parents are too conservative." Our resource officer, (who is also our tech guy and head of maintenance and my cousin - we are a small school), lined her out on how that wasn't a bad thing and we'd all be better off if more people were. ;)
Will's Link
Living in about the most liberal state in the land, I'm sure I have bias related to what I've seen. But growing up in a family of educators, knowing many, having done a lot of schooling in my life... I've not seen anything I'd call indoctrination. Only one teacher pushed a bit of an agenda, and it was conservative v liberal.
I'm sure it happens. At the same time, if the foundation of the education is the basic facts needed for life to be well lived, and for the student to develop well... Then the student will find their way through any attempt to purposefully push them one way as they experience more life.
On the other hand, if you teach kids that people and dinosaur's walked the earth together... Well, I used a flofingongal to type this message. Do you guys have PC or Mac OS's on your flofingongal's? I need to get a new one soon, I've been debating, not really a mac guy, but people tell me they are more virus resistant Flofingongal's than PC platforms. That said, flofingongal's are way cheaper than 10 years ago. Amazing how technology has changed.
Teaching your kids something akin to suggesting "lap tops" are called "flofingongal's" is indoctrination.
Teaching them facts, and not always being able to control your leanings left or right... it's a lack of professionalism, but it's not indoctrination.
(hope this doesnt come of ornery... I'm finally getting in a tree stand in like 3 hours and I'ms tarting to lose my mind :)... MUST. GET. TO. TREE!!!!)
In any realm controlled by government, all other priorities will be subordinated to propping up the government’s ideology. Our government’s current ideology, regardless of who wins elections, is moonbattery. That is why the National Science Foundation has spent over $1 million of our money training 24 social justice math and science teachers in Philadelphia:
The project, which began this summer, is recruiting 24 Drexel students earning a bachelor’s degree in a STEM field, which they will train to teach in school districts in Philadelphia. …
The stated goal of the study is to “promote social justice teaching.” … (????STEM)
The project has received $1,009,762 from taxpayers so far. Research will continue through May 2023.
For that kind of money, you get more than 2 + 2 = white men are racist, sexist, and bad:
The study also involves a mentorship program for the teaching candidates and learning mindfulness meditation so the teachers can develop “emotional intelligence.”
However, the main purpose is to produce math and science teachers who are “steeped in the context of social justice.”
Why bother pretending to learn math? Students could just stay home and watch the news. Seeing a fine man like Brett Kavanaugh torn down with increasingly improbable unsubstantiated allegations for the crime of being male, due process and the presumption of innocence having been discarded, provides an excellent lesson in the difference between justice and social justice.
Teacher Claims She Was Fired for Giving Students Zeroes for Unsubmitted Homework
Port St. Lucie, Florida, teacher Diane Tirado claims she lost her job because she would not give students a 50% grade for work they did not turn in.
“I got fired. I was packing my stuff, and I was not going to see the kids,” Tirado said. Instead of saying goodbye to them personally, she left a simple message on the classroom whiteboard:
Bye kids, Mrs. Tirado loves you and wishes you the best in life! I have been fired for refusing to give you a 50% for not handing anything in. [heart] Mrs. Tirado.
Tirado then took a picture of the message, which she posted to Facebook. Almost immediately, messages of support flooded the post. “You showed me to be responsible for my work and the things that I do. I hope you don’t forget me,” said one student. Many others called the school board’s decision “unbelievable,” and “ridiculous.
Tirado had assigned an “explorer’s notebook” to the students, and given them two weeks to submit it. When some of them did not, she discovered that the school prohibited grades lower than 50%. “NO ZERO’S – LOWEST POSSIBLE GRADE IS 50%” her handbook said.
She refused on the grounds that such a policy “sends the wrong message,” and now believes it cost her her job. “If there’s nothing to grade, how can I give somebody a 50 percent?” she asked.
The 52-year-old educator taught eighth grade social studies for 17 years before she was forced out, and the September 14 termination letter does not even give cause, except to say that she can be dismissed for any reason.
The story has gone viral, and peaked at the #1 spot on Reddit’s front page. Early Tuesday morning, she posted an update: “Good morning! I am reading all the posts you have written and reflecting upon them,” she said. “Teaching should not be this hard.”
Annony Mouse's Link
Annony Mouse's Link
