The key points though are that 1.) my wife, nor I, have ever been dog owners; 2.) we want a dog that's going to be great with kids; 3.) my wife would love to be able to take the dog running on trails with her; 4.) if I could train it to find antlers OR do a little bird hunting, which I've not done in like 25 years that would be a plus.
So - what say you all? Good family dog breeds and why? What do I need to consider more prior to adding to the family?
If I ever get another dog I’m going to the pound:shelter. There are too many great dogs out there that desperately need a family. However, if it’s a hunting dog that’s a different story.
My 2 cents...good luck.
Only downside is their hair can be a pain and they won’t out live you.
Best dang dog I've ever seen. Don't think I'll ever be able to get another dog.
Doubt you'll be able to find a litter where a White Shepard, Yellow Lab bitch has been serviced by a sled dog. And if you did, the recipe wouldn't be a guarantee to repeat.
I do like those White Shepard, Yellow Lab mutts though. Great temperament, loyal, less high-strung than purebreds, less likely to have hip dysplasia problems, but not a hunting dog.
My dog could follow hand signals that would put a sheep dog to shame. It aggravated buddies with purebreds that they spent ridiculous amounts of money on and poured ridiculous amounts of money and time into training. But my dog would just look at a bird.
He was phenomenal at collecting rocks from lakes and rivers on canoe trips though. Content to occupy himself all day.
Man! I miss that dog. Sorry for rambling.
If you're not hunting, I vote mutt.
Dogs..... I get a new one every 5 years. That way you always have minimum 1 and normally two fully functional bird dogs.... often while one other is retired or gone. The older ones will help you a great deal to train the pups. Dogs don't live all that long. Sure helps all involved (including the other dogs) when you lose one for whatever reason, you still have another to hug.....
You want smart as a whip there are a few cattle dog lines that are scary smart. But they don't hunt well...... and most are not the greatest kids dogs.... no patience for stupid humans.....
On the other hand, we now have an 11 month old German Shorthaired Pointer, Levi. Brought him home at 7 weeks old and haven’t regretted it one bit. I grew up hunting birds without a dog, and now wanted a dedicated upland hunting dog, that has the prey drive to hunt just about anything I could want to go after. Another feature is that he needs to RUN 7-10 miles a day just to take the edge off if him (if you cannot give him this, you will QUICKLY hate the dog and your wife will then second guess having you around too), which gets us up and moving and not just plop down and turn on the TV (another benefit of having a Lab is they LOVE to sit and watch TV with you) Health benefits abound with the Versitle Breeds. Do your part to wear them out, and you and your wife/kids will have the perfect snuggle buddy, as they are an awesome family dog. He is protective of his home too and is on constant patrol when outside, which is a great bonus. In my opinion, any dog left in a kennel with little human contact will have zero social skills (much like a prisoner). With that said, we would be complete fools to leave him in the house unattended. He has WAY to much energy and anxiety, and gets crated when we are all gone. Levi was properly crate trained, and he knows when it’s bedtime and goes in his crate when everyone else goes to bed.
Now mind you, I haven’t ran since I left the Army and have zero intentions of starting up again. We just find our ways to get him the required exercise. We hunt northern Michigan as often as possible as there is always an open season to hunt something year round in this state, State land runs, ride a bike as he runs along side on a leash just make sure not to tie the leash to the handlebar as they can stop on a dime to take a crap. Found that one out the hard way. Our boys taught him how to run on the treadmill last winter when we brought him home. There are plenty of places to get in his required exercise, you just need to be resourceful. Every weekend we have been bird hunting this fall, he has covered no less than 25 miles (per the GPS collar) for the Sat/Sun hunt, and honestly, he isn’t even worn out. He does sleep well at night, but is ready to go as soon as he sees the boots go on.
Mind you, it comes from daily training sessions, and phenomenal genetics, BUT if you aren’t going to commit to daily exercise (both physical and mental) do the GSP breed a favor and get a different breed. It is a HUGE commitment, but to us, it is worth it.
You can have one of my meatheads.
;-)
Matt
WV and a few others seem to have touched on something I wondered about the GS, maybe not a great "learn to be a dog family" dog... Thanks for the discipline point to. I could see easily how the cuteness of a puppy could lure one into NOT being good there. That's a good reminder to make sure we stay on top of things, especially when young. Thanks!
When I was a teen, my neighbor had a Brit. Spaniel. He took me upland hunting with he and the pup "Lady". It was a blast for years to see her work. When she died, I dont think I bird hunted more than a couple times. It was clear that the majority of the fun of that activity for me was being with the dog and seeing her do her thing. She was amazing.
This brings me to something we had pondered - a Britador (I guess it's a B. Spaniel / Lab mix)... Seems like a good combo.
So you guys are saying Lab probably better than the GS as a first dog - and probably better for our family than some dogs with higher energy needs given we work and the kids have school... Or perhaps a dog that's a mutt but has some lab in it or something...
I'm glad I asked, it's created some more questions we need to discuss...
I'm in Colorado.
I've always had at least two dogs since I was a teenager. GS's have a protective/mean streak that other breads, like labs and retrievers, don't process. They can be great loyal family dogs, but they make better watchdogs.
Generally, labs and retrievers have more friendly temperaments with kids and other dogs. I absolutely love golden retrievers for pets and hunting partners, but their long hair is a consideration. They shed big time.
Whatever breed you choose, if you love them, feed them, and treat them fairly and consistently, you will have a great pet. Definitely don't let puppy cuteness influence your decision. They grow out of that quickly.
Matt
Now, with all that said you said you guys have never owned a dog. I'm going to lay out for you what you are in for if you get a lab and want a lab that ends up like ours or many of the other good labs you see. Be prepared to get little or no sleep the first few weeks you have him home. He will need to go out to the bathroom at least once or twice in the middle of the night and he will cry to high heaven. Let him cry in his crate until he gets accustomed to it. Plan to take some time off work when you first bring him home to spend with him, socializing him, potty training him, etc. The more time you spend with him those first few weeks the easier everything else becomes later. Make sure you have a plan for what you will do with him while you are at work. He'll need to go outside a couple time during a normal work day to potty. It's also not good to leave them alone at that age for 8-9 hours straight. Again, spend lots of time with them. The most important thing to remember with labs is one simple saying, "a tired lab is a happy lab". You said your wife likes to run, that is perfect for a lab! I walk mine two miles in the a.m. and two miles in the p.m. and we do retriever training right after work. The kids also play fetching and running games with him right after school. If you keep them tired they do not get into the kind of mischief labs tend to get in if they have excess energy. Start training him straight off when you get him home. Just easy stuff like sit, stay, come, heel, etc. They'll learn way faster and earlier than you can imagine, just be careful to not overload them. A few minutes at a time is all a young puppy mind can handle. I'm sure there's a bunch more stuff I'm forgetting. Be aware, that puppy for first 6-8 months of its life is going to take every spare minute you have. After that it gets a lot easier as all the heavy lifting is done and they become fun members of the family! Good luck with whatever you guys decide, just be prepared going into it for how much work it is!
This is Bubba. He was my best friend. He passed a few months ago. It broke my heart.
Growing up we mostly had strays that we took in, or unwanted pups. Some made great dogs and some not so much. My family currently has one we took in from the neighbor who didn't really want it. It is a beagle mix that supposedly wouldn't hunt rabbits. He is has been great with my two year old, although sometimes the two together get a little too rambunctious. Other than that, he has been a pain in my ass, but I still kinda like the little guy. :^)
I or my family has taken in everything from Labs, to Aussies, to serious mutts, but the most kind and loving dog was probably the Collie that my parents bought. I wouldn't recommend a Collie for a guard dog, although I'm sure some could have a drastically different temperament.
For your all-around needs I think a Lab would fit. There is a reason they are so popular. A German Shephard could be a good dog for you, but I wouldn't see that as the optimal choice.
I'll add, expose your pup to as many different situations as you can at a very young age. My meatheads were traveling with me at 12 weeks old, to and from our ski condo mostly. They were exposed to large crowds with kids and other dogs, gas stations, busy retail areas,....you name it, all at a very young age.
They are now 3 years old and I can trust them in absolutely any situation. Last May we drove from Colorado to Florida, stayed for a month, then drove back. Our mutts never gave us a single problem the whole trip. Everywhere we went, people gravitated to them, and remarked about how well behaved they were. I'm convinced that was due to their early training and experiences.
Matt
Forget the Shepherd if you want to hunt, in fact, while they're smart as hell and very loyal, I don't think I'd recommend one as a first dog. A Lab, any color, is a great choice, great family dog, although you really should consider carefully picking one from a litter where both parents have traits that you like, AND a health clearance. I'd strongly suggest that you try to find one whose parents (and previous litters) are on the calmer side. Some Labs can have an awful lot of go in them. They do shed too, a lot! So that's something to think about.
Trust me on this, if you make the time and emotional investment in a pup, (and they become like another child to you), and they get cancer or hip dysplasia or something else that shortens their already short life, you'll wish you did more research up front. Almost all Labs become great family dogs, just lay down the law on feeding them snacks cause they'll turn into sausages if you let them.
If bird hunting is important to you getting a puppy whose parents hunt makes it MUCH more likely that you'll have good luck in that department. Almost all Labs will retreive damn near anything (with a bit of training and encouragement). Many will seek and flush birds for you too. Some are being bred for their ability to point, and while they don't lock up like a pointer, they do pretty damn well. Just be forwarded, a pup from good breeding in your part of the world will cost you plenty. Free or cheap dogs are a crap shoot, some turn out amazing, so do not.
Just know, if you get a Lab in yellow, they'll turn brown every time there is a mud puddle around. You pretty much can not keep a lab out of any water they happen to see.
My previous 2 dogs were a Lab and a German Wirehaired Pointer. The Lab was amazing with the kids, but she didn't really have what I needed/wanted in a hunting dog. My GWP would hunt like crazy but she had so much prey drive and energy that when she finally started slowing down at 12, I was so happy. When she died, I thought, I can't do that again, way too short a lifespan and too hard at the end. Well, that attitude lasted maybe 2 months and I decided I'd jump in again. I picked a Spinoni this time, a lot like the GWP in some ways, but more of an Italian version. Those German Dogs have no low gear, they go go go. Like was said above, you HAVE to give them a lot of exercise or they'll drive you crazy. My Isabella has a floppy, goofy side, and she's still definitely a puppy at 13 months, but she sits and lies down when I stop in the woods to take a rest. Much more my speed at this point in my life.
All Training starts with simple behavioral training. Hunting birds or sheds is no different. Do a few minutes of yard work with them every day and they'll figure out most of the rest, despite your mistakes. My girlfriend volunteers at the Guiding Eyes Kennel, and those are the calmest Lab puppies I have ever seen, they are sitting on command at 4-5 weeks old.
Lots to think about, and research. All the work you do up front will be well worth it.
And you'll feel way more secure when your dog is there guarding the house and letting everything and everyone outside know that she is protecting her humans inside.
Thanks to all of you for the insight and ideas. This is super helpful.
I work from a home office, which Ill admit makes me nervous. I'm confident Ill do 99% of everything despite the families comments. It's just how it goes when you work out of the house - name a chore or task, it's the person working out of the house who gets to do it :)
All the awesome points you guys are laying down really help. They are making me see and think of things I'd not considered and enforcing the few things I had.
That idea, I think it was GG noted, that socializing them a LOT early helps, I'd not considered. Makes sense, it's worked well with our human kids for example! I'd probably have gone the other way with a dog, so seeing that is really helpful for example.
Really appreciate all the insight guys!
Will
That may garner some debate.
Matt
I've buried 4 beloved Goldens in my life. Every one had a different personality. One was the best pheasant dog I've ever hunted behind. One would do nothing but follow behind me while hunting. One learned and would perform every command I could dream of, including fetching me a beer from the fridge. Another struggled with "sit".
In the end, I cried just as much while burying each of them.
Matt
;-)
Matt
Had dogs most of my life and even being a dog breeder, Shepards is a poor choice for first dog... They'll try you much like wolves in a pack competing for supremacy of Alpha... I see jcurri has them, but I wouldn't advise a Shepard as your FIRST dog...
Lots of different choices out there, but agree with others here, for a big dog to jog with your wife get a Lab... Labs are great dogs, I luv Labs, have owned four... Or a Labradoodle if looking for something that doesn't shed, but from what I've been told if ya buy a Labradoodle pup, ya have about a 50/50 chance of getting one that doesn't shed... Or as others have mentioned about any bird dog breed, bird dogs make great family pets, have owned 2 Brittanys but they're really hyper... Bird hunted over a English Pointer a couple years ago, and decided if I ever got another bird dog, it'd be a Pointer... For just a small house dog that doesn't shed, any of the hypoallergenic breeds such as Yorkies, mimi Poodles, Maltese, etc... Have a 8 pound Multipoo and Dachshund laying beside me right now... Until recently I had 3 hypoallergenic lap dogs in the house, and never found a hair, and they will guard your house... They're small, never had to clean poop, gotta luv lap dogs too... Got my Dachshund for blood tracking purposes, she's a year and half now, she's standard size, although fairly small around 18 pounds (I guess, haven't weighed her) she's a short hair although sheds, but the short hairs aren't bad, although I step into her poop outside every once in a while... 8^)
Big decision you have, take your time and have fun... Nothing funner than a new puppy, good luck...
Thunderflight - Cool looking Lab pup, got anymore pix? One of the Labs that owned me 8^) had a unique color, was a chocolate with tinges of grey... Named him Grizz...
I'd like to know how Matt trained his dog to fetch a beer out of the fridge. Good to know he cries too when he loses one of them, I was beginning to think maybe he had ice water in his veins after his comments on Kavanaugh a few weeks back.
No better buddy than a dog, and nothing in life will ever be as loyal. If any of us was half the man our dogs think we are, we'd be candidates for sainthood for sure.
I think Will Rogers said: "The more people I meet, the more I like my dog", I'd have to agree with him.
My Isabella (Spinone Italiano) even tolerated a Birthday Hat on her first birthday. My German Wirehaired would have knocked it off and chewed it in 10 seconds.
Cool looking dog, don't think I've ever heard of them, is that a bird dog breed? Do they shed... Thanks
Will do a little Googling...
It can be done.
That's not my dog, but the same stunt.
Matt
http://www.vetstreet.com/dogs/spinone-italiano
Spinone Italiano " Gentle and docile, this ancient all-purpose hunting breed can be good with kids and other dogs. The Spinone Italiano is affectionate, devoted and has a sense of humor. He can rock as a family dog or jogging companion. The downside: a wet beard in your lap after he drinks."
Whatever you do, teach your pup a healthy respect for vehicles. A few years ago, we had a 10-month old golden-doodle pup named Champ. He was shaping up to be one of the best dogs we've ever had. Unfortunately, he developed a bad habit for chasing anything that moved, including cars.
One day, while I was on a fishing trip, my frantic wife called to inform me Champ had ran under her car while she was pulling out of our driveway. The rear tire had run over him and crushed his spine just above his tail. We had to make the unthinkable decision to have him put down. The only thing worse than burying an old dog is burying a puppy.
Sorry for the depressing story, but this thread has stirred both good and bad memories for me. I wouldn't wish that bad memory on anyone.
Matt
I'll add to GG's post by saying you should teach them the same healthy respect for the street/road. Our pup will not cross or enter into the roadway without say so. We live on a pretty busy street so it was priority one for us.
That's one very smart and useful pup you've got there!
Matt that's brutal. Sorry you all had to experience that.
Also, good point. We live on a dead end cul de sac, it would be easy to be a little loose there. On the other hand, we could feel pretty safe showing the dog the rules of the road I guess...
Anyhow, my son called me a year or so ago about his boss having a new litter of Fox Red labs and we surprised my wife with a puppy while out in WY. The long trip home was a benefit because by the time we got back to MI, Ruby was almost potty trained.
Smith and I surprised my wife with our pup; but because I am home, Ruby has become my companion. She still goes to the door however when Cherie is due home from work.
There was mentioned of a charcoal lab above. I had never heard of that and the Fox Red variants. Turns out that the Lab has two minor color modifying genes (recessive) of the recognized Lab colors (black, chocolate, yellow) that produce the Fox Red, Charcoal and White labs. Before getting Ruby, I had seen a charcoal lab and thought it was one of the most beautiful dogs I had ever seen. Ruby is about 1.5 years old now and her color has gotten redder.
My uncle had a black lab years back (old style) that was a fantastic hunter and kids companion. When my cousins were little, they rode on Mike's back and he pulled their sleds. Never saw a better bird dog...Mike would carry a raw egg in his mouth and once caught our parakeet without mussing a feather. Once, Ted was walking the Shiawassee game reserve and Mike kept picking up cripples. Game officer was going to ticket him for the numbers of birds in his possession (Ted had no gun) and Mike jumped into the water and brought back another bird while the officer was talking to him...no citation!
If you are looking at a purebred dog, it is worth noting that many breeders have their dogs screened for genetic conditions. Ruby was screened and also microchipped.
Terry
Do Spinone Italiano shed?
Great dogs.
We currently took over my daughter's multi-poo (M) under protest when she moved overseas. Lovable pooch but needs to some light training.
So....here's my two cents on dog ownership. Any pooch is like having a kid. They need attention, upkeep, discipline, training and alot of love. Vet bills can get spendy real fast. The bigger dogs often require bigger doses of meds due to body size ($$). Puppies are cute and cuddly but they grow up and are not puppies anymore. When you travel you have to account for the dog.....either bring him or find someone else has to watch him($). Speaking of him....I'd lean towards female dogs. Males seem to be a little more possessive or territorial unless you train them early. If the dog has big flaps or ears, when they get wet from eating and drinking and shake their heads....slobber balls or food leavin's will go flying. You will have to clean those up. As far as breeds....I think that is a personal choice based on desires. One of our neighbors has 3 or 4 dogs. One is a yellow lab. That thing barks ALOT and is a little aggressive with the other, smaller dogs. Another neighbor has a springer and she also barks alot, sometimes runs after people walking by and growls whenever I try to pet her. Another neighbor has 2 Boston terriers....yappers and fighters. The SIL has 2 cocker spaniels....every time the door bell rings they run thru the house barking. She won't train/correct them. Annoys the stew out of me. In the heat the long hair dogs seem to sweat when playing outside and can stink when they come back in...at least her's do. They smell up the carpet and leave dirty pathways too. If you like a true lap dog...smaller dogs work....big ones take up too much lap real-estate. Smaller dogs seem to live longer than larger breeds.
Not trying be a negative Nancy on dog ownership...just throwing out some unvarnished things that will need to be taken into account. The right dog can be a real pleasure if you're down for the commitment and responsibility....the wrong dog and no commitment or responsibility can be a nightmare. Taking on a dog is a serious decision that needs to be honestly looked at short and long term.
My visla is 11 and I have to pick him up to play on the hay with the girls but he still has the heart to go. This might be his last bird season.
RJ Hunt - Yeah I too like the English style Labs, short and stocky... All four of mine were that style and had English blood... IMO, Americans kinda screwed the breed up by breeding long and lanky and was told reasoning (which can't really confirm), was for speed in field trials... If ya put a English style next to American style, they don't even look like the same breed...
I've had bucks hold tight in cover with my Brittanies scent checking for Mr. Bob.
Those Italiano dogs look pretty cool. If I was more into bird hunting I would look into one of those. Characteristics as described are pretty much what I am looking for.
Ask questions about the breeding stock. I made the mistake of buying a full blooded chocolate lab from a lady who bred various types of labs they used in field trial competitions. Super smart dog, but hyper and is finally getting old and slowing down at 11.
I don't know if it is all male labs, but the one I had would run off and find a female dog somewhere. If you let him get more than 10 feet away from you when he was loose, he'd be gone. I got to where I could read it on his face and I would grab him.
The three labs I have had were all protective of my wife and kids. I also like labs because they normally aren't prone to bark. I always knew something was around when I heard them start barking. It might have been a deer in the yard or someone stopped down at the entrance to our drive, but I knew to start looking if they kept barking.
Even though the male black lab we had drove us nuts with his running off, he was a super good dog. Our son was around two at the time, he would crawl all over that dog. Step on his tail, pull his ears. That dog never once pulled away, growled or anything. Most he would do was look at my wife and let out a whimper. All of ours have been outside dogs. We had that male lab back when we owned our first place. It was an ole trailer out in the country. My wife would let him in the trailer during the day while I was at work, but he had to stay on the rug in front of the door. At different times she would look for him and he wouldn't be on the rug. She would say "Knight, where are you?" and then she would watch. He would stay on his belly like he was still laying down, but he would crawl backwards to the rug.
Easiest way to explain the responsibility of owning a dog, you just added another kid to the family!!!
Depending on your hunting style setters tend to be more thorough and slower and pointers will range and cover more area. Setters will flush game though I have seen a point or two from them especially in wet conditions. YMMV. Setters are mild mannered and great with kids/family. Long hair could be a problem both in shedding and matting if not groomed regularly. Also it will collect burrs and stickers like a magnet. Gordons are my favorite but English and Llewellens are good too. Stay away from Irish if you intend to hunt, the breed was destroyed back in the 70's. Good pets, a bit high strung but I feel the hunting instinct is not as keen.
