They also happen to terminate a lot of unwanted pregnancies (kill babies, if you will); mostly young, urban, unmarried, minority mothers (for which they receive a small minority of their public reimbursement). But we find that morally irreprehensible because we'd rather have those bastards born and grow up to be thugs that mug us and rape our children. Yet, it's ok to machine gun down Catholics at the border for crossing illegally when they at least have the ambition to try and make a better life for themselves and their children... SMH.
Pick one or the other, because supporting one and not the other is a non sequitur of logic.
Do you guys realize that if it weren't for Roe V Wade that our country's urban population would be many times larger and the election that's about to happen wouldn't even be close, nor would it ever?
Urban areas are the great plague of humanity and what will be the downfall of our specie will ultimately boil down to overpopulation and the urbanite rats that devour everything in sight till all that's left to consume is their brood.
Along your line of thought, Wouldn't it make better sense to euthanize the would be parents before they ever got pregnant? It'd be easy enough along the same line of thought. Just go shoot them. Heck, they'll never turn out to be anything anyway.
I'm not being mean. But, as simple as it would be to just kill all the kids that are likely to turn out bad before they even have a chance to be born, is just as wrong as I made it sound. I understand your point. But, if we are going to hold people accountable, shouldn't we go after the accountable people before taking it out on a defenseless baby?
If we would change entitlement, the problems you speak of would fix themselves to a large degree. Killing the unborn babies has yet to put a dent in it. In contrast, I'm certain it produces more of the same. Besides misguided, its simply murder. No way around it. And, federally funded planed parenthood should have no part in that.
Still, the bulk of PPH's "Federal Funding" is medicaid payments and SCHIP money for women's health and birth control. There's nothing wrong with that. Any $ spent helping poor women get pap smears and birth control pills is a $ well spent.
I understand folks not wanting tax dollars going towards abortion. I guarantee that if they (abortions) were federally defunded, that the liberal elite would pony up the cash for them.
The problem is, they look at this issue the same way conservative people look at the 2nd Amendment. They feel they can't give any ground. If they knew that all they had to do was pay for all the abortions with private moneys and that the push to outlaw abortions in this country would end, they'd do it. But they know that that's not the case, so they're holding their ground just like the NRA is on the 2a, now no longer willing to give ground on stuff they were willing to give ground on 15 years ago because of the cutthroat political climate.
It takes a sick mind to justify murdering the absolute weakest human beings for matters of convenience. If 100% of the murdered babies turned out to be raging leftists and turned this country irretrievably Socialist via our electoral process, it would be a better result than blindly watching mass murder.
It never ceases to amaze me at how defenders of legalized baby killing rationalize things so they can sleep at night.
2). Ending RoevWade won’t stop abortions. It’ll make abortions unsafe and underground.
3) keep your religious ideologies out of law making and government as our constitution requires.
YFP, don't do that. Talk like someone with a purpose because the "law" says you are right. Laws of this manner are an excuse to do the wrong thing. I don't care what the Supreme Court says in Roe vs, Wade. The courts long before decided murder was wrong. It takes no religion to acknowledge that. You can't have it both ways with any intent to have a functioning system of law and order.
There's a number of issues here; first and foremost should be the fact (and these numbers come from ACOG (American College of Obstetrics & Gynecology) AND PP (yes, PP))-only about 10% of all abortions involve cases of rape or incest or the health of the mother. What this means is that approximately 90% of all abortions are simply a matter of convenience; it's an unwanted pregnancy and because it's a "right" (choice) it's become socially acceptable to terminate a pregnancy.
It never ceases to amaze me how a society can be so clueless as to the increase in random gun violence when it has institutionalized the ending of a human life as a simple matter of convenience; to say we have lost our moral compass is the height of understatement; we have freely excised it from our collective soul as a nation.
Lastly, on the irony scale the one that ranks right up there is the ad naseum argument about pro-lifers keeping religion out of government. Those who trumpet that rallying cry have no problem with government inserting itself into religion if the occasion is a Christian baker being forced to partake in an act their religion compels them to decline participation in; no, in these instances they are extremely supportive of government inserting itself into religion.
For those of low intellectual wattage, before you cite "equal protection" bear in mind that it applies every bit as much to those who should be defended for practicing their faith; you may want trot out that "keep government out of religion" meme now; in this case it's actually appropriate......
Then you need to learn the history of the organization.
K Cummings's Link
I couldn't agree more Mike
Pleass read the Title of this!!!!! I Read Defund Planed Parenthood !!!!!!! I should not have to Pay for YOUR ABORTION'S!!!!!!!! SIMPLE To understand!!!!!!!!!????
I read a couple articles this week that there are several cases headed towards the SCOTUS that will allow it to reassess Rowe v. Wade. A number of states have passed laws that identify a fetus as a living human with rights in the case where a crime against a pregnant woman leads to the death of the unborn child. These state laws have been challenged by the attorneys of the person(s) who caused the death of the unborn.
Most people (other than the zeidan nation) can see a conflict between these laws and voluntary abortions. The fetus either has or has no legal status of a living identity and this will end up before the Supreme Court. Unlimited abortion upon demand may well face limits and restrictions should the court rule in favor of states' determination of fetal rights.
If I come across links, will edit and add here.
What is medical care and not is not up to us, it's up to a patient and the provider they are working with. Period.
Ike pretty much nailed it for me. The good health care practice they provide, largely to the poor of our country, is a big service.
Do they perform abortions. Yes. Are late term abortions off base in all but dire medical situations (which NO ONE HERE CAN DEFINE UNLESS THEY ARE CURRENTLY IN ONE AND ARE DISCUSSING WITH THEIR PROVIDER) yes.
If RvW is undone, I'd still want federal $ going to Planned Parenthood. The rest of their services are really valuable to our society.
Will, you are a flaming bed wetting liberal. Period. And that's OK, just admit it. You try so hard to be a "centrist", you want to be so badly. But for that to happen conservatives would have to move hard to the left. Not going to happen, hopefully the Republican Party continues to move further to the right. it still is too far left.
The abortion issue is simple common sense, but it has been settled medically. Let's see, at what age do we have a baby in the womb that A. Has a heart beat B. Has brain waves C. Needs nourishment from its mother. At what age? That, is a living human being. Not to mention human like features and will be moved by stimulus, such as pain. Abortion is nothing more than murder of a human being, no matter how your politics white washes the issue. So tell us Will, when you speak of "medical providers" do you include Kermit Gosnell? Do you know who Kermit Gosnell is? Do you know there are many vampires just like him still practicing "medical procedures"? How about Josef Mengele? He was just another of your "medical providers", right??
According to accepted and peer-reviewed scientific evidence...
A. 3 weeks and 1 day.
B. After week 5 and into week 6.
C. Around week 6, the mother's blood and oxygen reaches the embryo thru the placenta.
D. Pain Stimulus - between 23 and 30 weeks when the thalamus and cortex have formed in the brain.
Are those your criteria for a living human being with rights?
I'll say it once more, until a baby can live without being attached to its mother, it's not a living human being with rights, IMO.
Depending on which study you read, the survival rate of babies born at 22 weeks is between 2-15%, if given immediate medical attention. Earlier than that the chances are almost nil. So, given future medical advancements that may happen, I'd say the threshold is between 20-22 weeks for a fetus to survive outside the womb. Whether or not they develop normally to their full potential is anyone's guess. Until then, the fetus is part of the mother's body.
Rarely a pleasure, Trax.
Since there has never been a dog or any other life form born from a women, we call the life inside her human. The second it begins. We don’t call it a horse. A deer. A cat. We call it what it is.
That is just the facts of it. No opinions needed.
However, all the semantics and defined definitions have been used to release human kind from the reality that they are EVERYTHING the Bible tells us we are by nature. It’s convienent to those who side step their responsibility. Until their judgement day comes.
We will all answer for our descriptions. None of us here are above being evil. What defines your personal relationship with Christ is recognizing his law and sticking to it. Not what your opinions are.
Matt, you claim being a Christian. How does a faithful Christian over look the Ten Commandments so easily? Does God’s law or you decide when a baby is a human.
So a newborn is fair game? I mean, it may not be "attached" but it certainly needs attached to something? Slippery thinking Matt.
"I'd say the threshold is between 20-22 weeks for a fetus to survive outside the womb."
One of my daughters very first patients in the NICU was a 22 week old preemie. That was in 2012. Wasn't attached to it's mother, but was attached to a bunch of equipment. I'd dare anyone to tell my daughter that child had no right to life. Most likely you would be in the ICU several floors down, if you got past the rest of the NICU nurses.
I think that Matt is neither ignorant, PC, OR a liberal. I consider him a Bowsite friend, as I did GJ, Mark Hogan, Blue Doggie and a few others. I vehemently disagree with their position on abortion and will post AND vote accordingly.
If a pregnant women is killed, the person committing the act is then charged with double homicide. Double meaning two humans from a legal perspective?
I'm comfortable with my Christianity and my understanding of the Ten Commandments.
I’m going to bare a scar….
In my sophomore year of college, my girlfriend and I were careless and conceived a child together. After much praying and soul-searching, I decided to let her make the decision on what we would do, and I’d support it either way. To my surprise and conflicting feelings, she chose to have a very early-term abortion. She cited the following truths: 1) we didn’t love each other, 2) weren’t prepared financially or psychologically to support a child, and (3) the child would ultimately suffer most for our mistakes, as her reasons to have the abortion. I didn’t argue with her decision or her rationale. We broke up shortly afterwards.
A decade later I met the women I wanted to marry and have a family with, and she felt the same way. Regrettably, my wife and I were never able to conceive a child, for reasons the doctors could never explain.
I’ve often wondered if our inability to have children was my penance for not demanding to have the child I fathered in college. Or, was it God’s guidance that led me thru that situation, and has blessed me with the life I’ve had since. Either way, I’ve prayed for forgiveness and absolution many times, and still do. In hindsight, I truly believe I made the right decision, but I won’t know until I meet my maker.
I respect that you dont like and believe it's wrong. Cool. I believe choices affecting individuals health should be between them and medical providers. Actually sounds libertarian vs liberal.
It's all good. Disagreement is fine.
Your impregnated girlfriend's reasons were 1) a matter of convenience, 2) another matter of convenience and 3) an uninformed speculation to rationalize the decision for convenience's sake.
The people from My Sister's Party vote the way they do because their feelings don't want to deal with the obligations and responsibilities of being an adult.
Why would anyone claim to have made the right decision and ask a convenient god to provide absolution for that decision?
There is zero doubt in my mind that one can receive forgiveness for any sin. However, praying to cover one's bases doesn't seem quite right.
Frankly, Hackbow, I don't give a rat's ass what you believe, or what you think I believe.
Except the one it affects the most has zero say. Zero choice. It has it's own blood supply, it's own DNA, etc... If we decide dependency is the deciding factor that's it a sentient individual human being, than we should be able to kill them up to toddler age.
I just can't fathom how we as a nation afford more protection to an eagle egg than we do an unborn child.
I have my own discretion’s I will answer for. Like everyone here. The beautiful thing about God is his willingness to forgive us of our sins. One we repent from them.
Once again, I’m not judging you. But, repentance requires turning away from sin. Not justifying it. That’s something that is required by God.
Anything but turning away from your sins is NOT repentance.
Totally fair, GG. Just remember you posted it when feeling the urge to chime in on anyone else's opinions, beliefs or feelings.
Sometimes, I think I fail God everyday. But every morning I get up, try to have my devotions, ask God for his blessing for the day, ask the Holy Spirit to keep me centered, and thank Christ for paving the way. I suggest some of you sanctimonious pharisees do the same.
Will- you are so much more genuine than those that try to attach a label on you. Thier daily soaking in biased propaganda that is regurgitate on the CF daily has clouded their judgement. But they just keep going back to the trough each day and feed on the same ole propaganda. Some people just have to hate to feel safe and happy I guess. Twisted and sad.
Trax- well you’re just...well anonymous. Makes perfect since.
I don't think I've made any justifications for my discretions. I own them 100%.
But, thanks for your thoughts.
As I said to Tom in a PM, age has made me more comfortable in my own skin. Oddly, it didn't take "balls", or much consideration at all, to post my story. A decade ago, I wouldn't have even considered it.
It happened, I made my choices, as did she, and I we own them.
Careful what you offer, I may take you up on them more often than you think.
"It happened, I made my choices, as did she, and I we own them."
In reality, you had no choice at all. You didn't "let" her do anything.
Had you decided that you wanted the baby and she didn't you would have had no say in the matter.
If you decided that you didn't want the baby and she did, again you would have no say in the matter.
Therefore to say that you made the choice to leave it up to her is really no choice at all, it's just the reality of the situation.
By "choices" I was including the discretions that led to the unintended pregnancy. I also *think* I could have convinced her to have the child, had I tried, but I chose not to.
Anyway, enough about me. I don't want to be accused of indecent exposure.
People seem to think that there are only two options when in fact there are three.
The reason I asked is that my older sister (62) recently met the daughter that she put up for adoption some 40 plus years ago. She is a happily married, educated (Masters degree) professional, and the mother of two children of her own.
In 20/20 hindsight, I wish adoption would have been considered more. But then, that would have involved disclosing our situation to more people than we cared to (read our families). In our young and terrified minds, a rushed and unwanted marriage, with a child arriving shortly afterwards, or abortion, were our only 2 options. College scholarships, degrees, and career aspirations all played a part, too, right or wrong.
“Babies” born at 20-22 weeks do not grow up to be “normal” adults. They are generally fucked up, provided they survive at all. And they usually only survive on the back of Medicaid as it costs a million bucks to get them to their first birthday. They die at “birth” without medical attention because they are not viable outside the womb. I’m not defending late-term abortions here. I’m just throwing out some medical facts.
Secondly, the Ten Commandments is not a Christian document. It is a Jewish document. One of the Ten Commandments is the command to observe the Sabbath, which no Christians today observe except for 7th Day Adventists. Why the observation of the Ten Commandments keeps getting equated to being a (good) Christian is beyond me. If the Ten Commandments are so important, then we should not be working on Saturday.
By all means tell that to my daughter that they don't survive. She see's it. Daily. She's responsible for their care. She knows exactly what it takes for one to survive. The aforementioned baby, in the NICU for six months. Discharged with some lung issues but otherwise healthy. If $$ are an issue, we better start putting the old folks down, cuz they are costing us a sh!t ton. Ike, I know you're an MD, but my daughter sees it, lives it every day for the last six years.
"Why the observation of the Ten Commandments keeps getting equated to being a (good) Christian is beyond me. "
Really? No, Really? Because unless you know what crooked line is, you don't know what a straight line is. So we can pretty much talk about how God is a God of love and acceptance, but don't discuss any guidelines or do's and do not's. Sorta, everybody do their own thing and it's all good. Doesn't work that way. The discussion above lead into sins and forgiveness, as though some sins are worse than others.
When Christ was asked which commandment was the greatest, he didn't even mention the TC.
Matthew 22:35-39 (NIV) 35 One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.
Kind funny.....follow those two and the TC takes care of itself.
Some great posts, we are all sinners. Some days I appreciate being reminded of that. Thanks again.