Moultrie Products
Bump Stocks Officially Banned
Community
Contributors to this thread:
Zbone 18-Dec-18
JTV 19-Dec-18
Dirk Diggler 19-Dec-18
Zbone 19-Dec-18
JTV 19-Dec-18
Huntcell 19-Dec-18
Thunderflight 19-Dec-18
BIG BEAR 19-Dec-18
Kevin Dill 19-Dec-18
RK 19-Dec-18
K Cummings 19-Dec-18
Squash 19-Dec-18
HDE 19-Dec-18
WV Mountaineer 19-Dec-18
BIG BEAR 19-Dec-18
sleepyhunter 19-Dec-18
Woods Walker 19-Dec-18
Your fav poster 19-Dec-18
Woods Walker 19-Dec-18
Woods Walker 19-Dec-18
Bentstick81 19-Dec-18
BIG BEAR 19-Dec-18
Your fav poster 19-Dec-18
Bou'bound 19-Dec-18
BowSniper 19-Dec-18
Bowbender 19-Dec-18
Brotsky 19-Dec-18
BIG BEAR 19-Dec-18
Bentstick81 19-Dec-18
Bowbender 19-Dec-18
Your fav poster 19-Dec-18
bigeasygator 19-Dec-18
BIG BEAR 19-Dec-18
Bentstick81 19-Dec-18
BIG BEAR 19-Dec-18
Glunt@work 19-Dec-18
HDE 19-Dec-18
Grey Ghost 19-Dec-18
Woods Walker 19-Dec-18
Woods Walker 19-Dec-18
South Farm 19-Dec-18
JTV 19-Dec-18
bigeasygator 19-Dec-18
Bowbender 19-Dec-18
BIG BEAR 19-Dec-18
IdyllwildArcher 19-Dec-18
Deflatem 19-Dec-18
WV Mountaineer 19-Dec-18
Woods Walker 19-Dec-18
Kevin Dill 19-Dec-18
Zbone 19-Dec-18
Paul 19-Dec-18
spike78 19-Dec-18
spike78 19-Dec-18
gflight 19-Dec-18
Tonybear61 19-Dec-18
JTV 19-Dec-18
gflight 19-Dec-18
gflight 19-Dec-18
gflight 19-Dec-18
gflight 19-Dec-18
HDE 19-Dec-18
BIG BEAR 20-Dec-18
HDE 20-Dec-18
Shuteye 20-Dec-18
BowSniper 20-Dec-18
BIG BEAR 20-Dec-18
gflight 20-Dec-18
HDE 20-Dec-18
Woods Walker 20-Dec-18
scentman 20-Dec-18
gflight 20-Dec-18
scentman 20-Dec-18
HDE 20-Dec-18
gflight 20-Dec-18
scentman 20-Dec-18
keepemsharp 20-Dec-18
Dirk Diggler 20-Dec-18
JTV 20-Dec-18
Shuteye 20-Dec-18
BIG BEAR 20-Dec-18
scentman 20-Dec-18
Zbone 20-Dec-18
JTV 20-Dec-18
BIG BEAR 20-Dec-18
scentman 20-Dec-18
Woods Walker 20-Dec-18
JTV 20-Dec-18
Kevin Dill 20-Dec-18
BowSniper 21-Dec-18
scentman 21-Dec-18
Grey Ghost 21-Dec-18
BowSniper 21-Dec-18
BowSniper 21-Dec-18
scentman 21-Dec-18
Zbone 21-Dec-18
TGbow 21-Dec-18
Annony Mouse 21-Dec-18
gflight 21-Dec-18
BIG BEAR 27-Dec-18
gflight 28-Dec-18
Annony Mouse 11-Jan-19
BowSniper 11-Jan-19
bigeasygator 11-Jan-19
Annony Mouse 11-Jan-19
Annony Mouse 11-Jan-19
From: Zbone
18-Dec-18
Heard on local news Trump administration officially bans bump stocks:

https://www.wkyc.com/video/news/politics/trump-administration-bans-bump-stocks/95-67a7d918-2f80-41fe-a2d7-7bec3baaa133

Owners have to surrender or destroy them by March...

From: JTV
19-Dec-18
while I do think this is pure BS and law suites will fly.... I wont lose sleep tonight either ..

From: Dirk Diggler
19-Dec-18
What will it accomplish? How many people have been killed with bump stocks since bump stocks came into existence?

From: Zbone
19-Dec-18
Have never had the desire to own one and heck hadn't even heard of them or knew they existed until after the Vegas tragedy...

I just have a problem of 2nd Amendment firearm ownership "infringement"... What part of "infringe" do they not understand...

From: JTV
19-Dec-18
I sold firearms for almost 20 years, many of them AR typesm.... never once in that time did I have anyone ask for a "bump stock" ... never ... Ive sold various stock mods, fore end's, Stocks, cheek pieces, heat shields, etc... never a "bump stock" ...

From: Huntcell
19-Dec-18
Will there be reparation payments for lost property? Are the feds ready for the logistical nightmare of huge piles of bump stocks left on federal court house steps? Will environmental wackos be protesting the impact of destroying all these stocks? Is the Don going use them to build “THE WALL”

19-Dec-18
Ive always been surprised that they were legal to begin with.

From: BIG BEAR
19-Dec-18
Don’t care.

From: Kevin Dill
19-Dec-18
"Ive always been surprised that they were legal to begin with."

.

Me too. Fully automatic weapons have been banned from general ownership for many decades. Bump stocks don't make a weapon fully automatic in the same way, but the end result is the same. Extremely rapid fire. No hunting purpose at all. Only legit uses are for fun at the range, or for defense. Given no other automatic weapons make the cut, bump stocks have skirted the edge of legality....a gray area if you will.

From: RK
19-Dec-18
And the bad guys will still have bump stops.

From: K Cummings
19-Dec-18
OK by me.

KPC

From: Squash
19-Dec-18
Just more political symbolism over substance. I’m so relieved, Gun violence will now end. ROTFLMAO.

Let’s see, high capacity mags, pistol grips, bayonet lugs, flash hiders, and now bump stocks ? And some here don’t care ? I predict that someday you will care.

From: HDE
19-Dec-18
unless there is a way to track them at time of purchase, nobody will "turn them in" or destroy them...

19-Dec-18
Here is the real truth about bump stocks. I’ve shot them. I’ve known about them for a while. So, I know what I’m talking about.

Bump stocks are not effectively automatic weapons in anyway, shape, or form. They don’t fire as fast, nearly as accurate, and are not reliable in any sense. The videos you see of them are short bits of a successful run that took many times to complete in most instances.

Second point, they are not accurate. In anyway are you going to walk into a big room and strategically do anything but shoot the upper walks and ceilings if your intent was to kill people. The only thing that made the Vegas shooter successful was he was randomly firing into a huge mass of people. A decent shot with a bolt action rifle would have tripled the body count. Praise the Lord for his is ignorance of that reality.

Third, this isn’t a victory. It’s a political move. A sell out. Let all the dumb heads buy the things and actually use them if harm is their intent. It would keep body counts lower. But, the disappointing thing is the lack of knowledge and common sense used to determine this outcome. If you don’t know what you are talking about, you should probably not talk a whole lot about it.

I’m extremely disappointed this happened. I have zero use for the implements too. I don’t own one because all they do is waste shells. But, this is the first step in outlawing “assault@ weapons.

From: BIG BEAR
19-Dec-18
Fully automatic rifles aren’t as accurate as bolt action rifles either......

From: sleepyhunter
19-Dec-18
They're still for sale on Gunbroker. $149 plus shipping.

From: Woods Walker
19-Dec-18
What's next? Belt loop and thumbs??!!

19-Dec-18

From: Woods Walker
19-Dec-18

Woods Walker's embedded Photo
Woods Walker's embedded Photo
And if you one of those emo/punkers/whatever that has pierced ears and those big wooden plugs in them you can take the plug out, hook your thumb through the hole and fire away!

From: Woods Walker
19-Dec-18
At "work" are you Sybil? 8:39 on a Wednesday morning and you're screwing the taxpayers ....again....by playing on your computer while at work "teaching". Nice work if you can get it.

From: Bentstick81
19-Dec-18
So tell us yfp. How are you going to get the bump stocks from the thugs that have them that are going to use them on people??? Also, how is this bump stock ban going to make people safer in the USA???? ME LISTENING!!!!! 8^)

From: BIG BEAR
19-Dec-18
Shouldn’t you be asking President Trump those questions ?

19-Dec-18
Maybe ask trump?

From: Bou'bound
19-Dec-18
good move

From: BowSniper
19-Dec-18
I don't look at it as 'making bumps stocks illegal'. All gun guys knew it was a gimmick to exploit a loop hole and get around the full auto laws. So after a few hundred people get shot up in Vegas, it's not surprising that they close the loophole.

Additionally, as the 2nd amendment was twice ruled by SCOTUS, the bump stock wouldn't fit within "ordinary military equipment ... in common use at the time". So I don't see this dopey gimmick as having any special constitutional protection.

The ATF makes supplemental rulings all the time. You guys don't remember the USAS-12 and Streetsweeper shotguns getting thrown into NFA category (1994)? That was some real bullsh1t there! Or banning certain 37mm 'flare gun' shells (1995)? Or even the reclassification of the original MAC-10's as machine-guns because the design allowed for relatively easy conversion?

Heck - this is the same as when they banned the AR drop in auto sear (1981) and it became a felony to possess one, even if not installed. Was bowsite around back then for the faux outrage? C'mon now... who are we kidding?

From: Bowbender
19-Dec-18
Curious as how the rules, laws or whatever will be written. Floriduh's law is written such that any device to increase the rate of fire could be banned. Slide stops, upgraded triggers, stiffer recoil springs, etc, all could be construed as a device to increase rate of fire. Be careful of what you don't care about.

From: Brotsky
19-Dec-18
If Obama had done his job and banned these then Vegas wouldn't have happened right YFP? Just another failure to protect the American people by the "people's President".

From: BIG BEAR
19-Dec-18
Still don’t care. Not worried about the shotguns and bolt action rifle in my gun cabinet.....

From: Bentstick81
19-Dec-18
All Trump did was showing the American people that he had the balls to prove to the democrats that their so called,"GUN CONTROL", isn't going to make them safer, and will not stop mass shootings in any way. Maybe a couple of guys, on here, will see that you don't have to ask the POTUS to see this isn't going to do a thing to help keep people safer. Two peas in a pod.

From: Bowbender
19-Dec-18
"Still don’t care. Not worried about the shotguns and bolt action rifle in my gun cabinet....."

Till your shotgun is labeled a room clearing weapon and your bolt action deer rifle is referred to as "sniper style" weapon.

I see zero need for a bump stock. Zero. I have zero need for an AR as well. (I may have one or more) But the 2A doesn't require you to define need. Just as the 1A doesn't require you to define your "need" to practice Catholicism, Episcopalian, Baptist, or atheism. Nor does it require you to define your "need" for free speech.

As I said, be careful of what you don't care about. The devil WILL be in the details with this ruling, law, EO, whatever. Hell,even 30 round mags could be considered. Less magazine swaps, higher ROF. All it takes, is a ruling by a judge. No legislation required.

19-Dec-18
Ah so trump created a policy that won’t work. Got it.

But greatest president ever!

From: bigeasygator
19-Dec-18
"How many people have been killed with bump stocks since bump stocks came into existence?"

They've killed more people in the last three years than Muslim terrorists, but I digress. WVM is right about bump stocks - they are more a gimmick than any practical application. I own quite a few black rifles, and train fairly regularly and never once have I had any desire to acquire a bump stock.

My biggest concern is what Bowbender highlights. Automatic weapons are clearly defined in the National Firearm Act as weapons that fire more than one projectile with a single trigger pull. This is clearly not what bump stocks do. If the legal language is broad ("anything that increases the rate of fire"), it exposes a whole host of accessories that do indeed have practical applications.

From: BIG BEAR
19-Dec-18
I don’t need a fully automatic rifle either...... and don’t plan on fighting for your right to own one. Or a bump stock.

From: Bentstick81
19-Dec-18
yfp. Still missed the point. Side stepping the truth. As usual. Hear those foot steps running in the distance. 8^)))

From: BIG BEAR
19-Dec-18
Jason....... I agree...... but you can thank the gun nuts that just can’t be happy with owning an AR for this mess,,,,,,, They had to go out and come up with a gimmick that alters their guns to shoot at a rate similar to a fully automatic rifle......

From: Glunt@work
19-Dec-18
I have no desire to ever own a bump stock. Bump firing semi-auto is easily achievable without one but mostly just a way to make noise.

The point is that it sets a precedent that limiting gun accessories is going to change crazy/evil people from harming others. That isn't the case so even though its an unimportant specific freedom, its still freedom lost for no benefit. Every time we waste energy taking freedom and ignoring the real issue its a bad thing.

As for "ordinary military equipment ... in common use at the time", obviously full auto and burst auto are both common military equipment.

From: HDE
19-Dec-18
At the end of the day, why does it really matter if someone owns a bump stock?

I would feel safer with very strict booze rules to prevent drunk drivers than taking away "Jasper's" ability to own a bump stock.

Oh wait, they tried that and it didn't work, reversing the effect of the Volstead Act...

From: Grey Ghost
19-Dec-18
"What's next? Belt loop and thumbs??!!"

Exactly. You can also bump fire virtually any semi-auto pistol with nothing but a fat belly. I've also seen bump stocks made from a chunk of 1"x4" and a wooden dowel.

I guess if Trump needed to appease the gun grabbers with something, bump stocks are as good as anything.

Matt

From: Woods Walker
19-Dec-18
That's it.......morbidly obese people should be prohibited from owning firearms too!

19-Dec-18
And CF conspiracy theorists as well;)

From: Woods Walker
19-Dec-18
I've been handling firearms since I was 12, and up until the LV shootings I'd never even heard of a bump stock. IMO they're not a very effective, responsible or safe way of using a firearm. Overall I really don't care that they're no longer legal (it's a waste of ammo and not an effective way to shoot a firearm), but as has been pointed out, you don't even NEED one to operate a semi-auto in the exact same fashion. All this is, is a bone to throw at the gun grabbers, and a meaningless one to boot. The problem with it is that it will NOT appease them in any way whatsoever......just one more inch in the camel's nose under the tent. ANYONE who knows firearms understands this.

From: South Farm
19-Dec-18
Making bumpstocks illegal isn't infringing on your right to bear arms. You can still own your precious AR's and just about any other firearm you want. This is how politics work, if you think Trump ain't getting something in return you'd be sadly mistaken; I assure you he's holding this card for later! On top of that, just how many people are really put out by this anyway, 1000 out of 300 million maybe, who cares?!? Much to do about nothing..

From: JTV
19-Dec-18
A sniper like myself, can keep a battalion of the enemy at bay ... I know what I can do if needed ...

From: bigeasygator
19-Dec-18
"The problem with it is that it will NOT appease them in any way whatsoever"

That's not the only problem (we all know they'd never be appeased anyway). Again, I'm very curious as to how language of any ban is worded that won't put more common accessories at risk. Even without upgraded components, you can manipulate a weapon in all kinds of ways to deliver a rate of fire that approaches an automatic weapon as others have pointed out. Like I said, I'm very curious to see how this is phrased.

From: Bowbender
19-Dec-18
"A sniper like myself, can keep a battalion of the enemy at bay ... I know what I can do if needed ..."

I believe Carlos Hathcock took on a company. The snipers weapon? Model 70 Winchester. Just like our everyday deer rifle. Again, be very careful about what you don't care about. Incrementalism is the game. Let the media redefine your Rem 700 or Win Model 70 as a "sniper rifle" and my guess is your "care" meter will be pegged.

From: BIG BEAR
19-Dec-18
Let me know when that happens........

19-Dec-18
It's too bad that the ban couldn't have been part of a bigger piece of legislation with other eventualities conceded in exchange for something the other side would concede and have it actually go into law through Congress and benefit everybody instead of just a unilateral concession.

From: Deflatem
19-Dec-18
MY, Two cents, And worth both pennies. Bump stocks are NOT guns, so they didn't ban a gun. The Bump stock is an add on" Jimmie Rigging" to enable the gun to do something NOT intended by the gun maker. Although it makes little difference to a criminal, I will pass the BAN on as something our side did to avert a tragedy. Our part to be proactive on crime. Libs don't know a bump stock from their ass, but we can hold it up and say we did our part. Beyond that they can all kiss my rosie back side.

19-Dec-18
So, rewarding ignorance was a victory?

From: Woods Walker
19-Dec-18
Avert a tragedy? Then how about belt loops and thumbs as well as fat bellies? Both of those things were shown on this thread to allow the weapon to do the exact same thing as the bump stock. Realistically, the ban solves NOTHING.

It's NOT the tool, it's the USER.

From: Kevin Dill
19-Dec-18
An interesting thing to me is that noise-suppressors and silencers are generally banned or severely restricted, yet they do nothing to increase a firearm's danger or lethality. A hand-stocked slide action 5-shot shotgun is either illegal or restricted TO OWN, yet a 17 shot semi-auto handgun is generally fine. I'm not necessarily agreeing with it, but there's plenty of precedent for banning parts of guns and accessories....with little regard for the hypocrisy present.

From: Zbone
19-Dec-18
Kevin - "A hand-stocked slide action 5-shot shotgun is either illegal or restricted TO OWN"

You sure about that, first time I heard as long as 18" barrel and overall lenght of 26"... Surely receive and grip is over 8" long... Don't know, don't own one to measure...

From: Paul
19-Dec-18
Can't put one on my 7x57 Mauser anyways .

From: spike78
19-Dec-18
MA already beat him to it.

From: spike78
19-Dec-18
I find it amusing that if you own a bump stock you have to turn it in. So I can keep the gun that does the killing but have to turn in a part that goes on to it? In other words we trust you with your gun but not when it can be full auto. Makes no sense.

From: gflight
19-Dec-18
The president does not have the authority to rewrite laws. Courts will shoot down this Government overreach. Even 0bama wasn't as stupid as Trump.

From: Tonybear61
19-Dec-18
What is the bump stock definition in the law?? Just like labeling anything that kills people a assault weapon, the devil is in the details. Once this one gets through there will be others. Count on it. So where will be the "shall not be infringed" line be drawn/? Its not about hunting, never was, its about expressing God given rights (reaffirmed by Amendments and most recently the Heller case) to defend yourself using equal or greater force.

But then Katniss took out a whole tyrannical empire with a bow so what do I know...

From: JTV
19-Dec-18
A Hoyt and a Martin at that ... oh, and X7's for the arrows ..

From: gflight
19-Dec-18
"Sen. Dianne Feinstein on Tuesday rejected a plan by the Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives Bureau to review the sale of bump stocks and other devices that can accelerate the firing power of semi-automatic weapons, arguing the ATF is not authorized to regulate them and instead Congress must act." lol Feinstein smarter than Trump.....

From: gflight
19-Dec-18

gflight's Link
Tragedy....

From: gflight
19-Dec-18
Your President has unilaterally ordered that you destroy your paid for personal property in 90 days or be a felon.

From: gflight
19-Dec-18
If you are good with this you are not pro 2nd amendment, you are not pro property rights, and you do not support the Constitution of the United States.

From: HDE
19-Dec-18
Everyone is a felon for breaking some stupid ass law they (we) don't know about...

From: BIG BEAR
20-Dec-18
Who would have thought....... President Trump is a gun grabber........

From: HDE
20-Dec-18
So, just how are they supposed to track you down and arrest you for "breaking the law" if you choose not to forfeit your property?

From: Shuteye
20-Dec-18
"Bump stocks are like firecrackers, fun but no practical purpose."

From: BowSniper
20-Dec-18
Gflight - where in all of the Supreme Court decisions defining 2nd Amendment gun rights (Miller? Heller?) do you find any protection for these dopey bump stock gimmicks?

From: BIG BEAR
20-Dec-18
Nate. I would expect close to zero compliance with this. The only people to ever get charged with it are people who get caught doing something else Illegal..... and just happen to have a bump stock.

Although some of the Always Trumpers might turn them in out of loyalty to President Trump.

From: gflight
20-Dec-18
Bosniper - definition of machine gun has to do with 2a. Please don't let the politicians snow-job you over a piece of plastic. You can bump fire with rubber bands.

From: HDE
20-Dec-18
Agreed BB

From: Woods Walker
20-Dec-18
.....or a big fat gut!

From: scentman
20-Dec-18
shiny object for media to play with

From: gflight
20-Dec-18
Civil war was over property rights. While a bump stock, magazine, or accessories aren't that expensive it is still Government taking personal property.

From: scentman
20-Dec-18
did you ever see a utensil that is both a fork and a spoon? it does exist... does anybody have one? probably not... any one on bow-site own a bump stock? that is how irrelevant this is imho

From: HDE
20-Dec-18
You get a "spork" with your mashed taters everytime you go to KFC...

And I suppose bump stocks on the CF is just as relevant as anything else that is discussed...

From: gflight
20-Dec-18
Not about a piece of plastic but thanks for playing.

From: scentman
20-Dec-18
Don't frequent KFC, so you have me there... it is relevant discussion but before this i never heard of a bump stock... like i stated, just my opinion.

From: keepemsharp
20-Dec-18
You can hook tour thumb into your jeans pocket and get the same affect.

From: Dirk Diggler
20-Dec-18
"How many people have been killed with bump stocks since bump stocks came into existence?" They've killed more people in the last three years than Muslim terrorists, but I digress.

Lmao! Got any facts to back up that opinion?

From: JTV
20-Dec-18
Man, did I sleep good last night ... I woke up and the world is still here and all my firearms are still in the safe ...... .... smh ...

From: Shuteye
20-Dec-18
BTW, the shooter in Vegas had a gun with a bump stock but it was laying on the floor and never fired. A couple weapons had never been fired. I have two gun safes with guns in them but a bunch are not in any safe and ready to use in several locations in the house. Hand guns, shotgun and rifles.

From: BIG BEAR
20-Dec-18
Come on Jeff..... you can say it..... Trump is a gun grabber...... you would be all over O’Bozo over this......

From: scentman
20-Dec-18
If any one believes the Vegas Shooter did this all alone and with a bump stock yet then the media has done their job... media tells 98% lies... we have no idea what has been going on... i think we will be shocked one day to see how truly duped we have been.

From: Zbone
20-Dec-18
Kevin - Please explain the illegality of a pistol grip shotgun...

Big Bear - Maybe you can help me understand?

From: JTV
20-Dec-18
BB, only dopes think that ... Like I said earlier, I dont like the move one bit .... but this is far from what the #neverTrumpers claim ..

20-Dec-18
Scentman,

Large crowd, loud music, many people probably under the influence of something, shooter quite a distance away...

Lone shooter capable of doing this during mass confusion, totally plausible to me. And that probably was his logic for picking the target.

From: BIG BEAR
20-Dec-18
In Michigan...... A shotgun with a barrel shorter than 18”..... or shorter overall than 26”...... it is considered a pistol. But it varies from state to state.

If it’s strictly a sawed off shotgun under the legal size.... it’s illegal.......

We don’t come across a whole lot of shotguns in the city...... but I talked to my buddy who is one of our gun experts.... he said it is possible to legally possess a short barrel shotgun if you register it.... I guess there’s a federal tax stamp you have to purchase......

From: scentman
20-Dec-18
Habitat,your statement is very possible, however things just don't add up... was he going to use all that artillery, yet shoot himself so early into the plan? No, i believe he was selling, the true perps shot him to make it look like a crazy when it was well orchestrated, also following along the lines of your premise of large crowd, loud music slot of weed and alcohol mixed in.

20-Dec-18
Multiple shooters, seems to me forensics could find evidence.

I really don't know, I have zero training in any of this.

From: Woods Walker
20-Dec-18

Woods Walker's embedded Photo
Woods Walker's embedded Photo
A spork is a utensil's version of being "trans"......looks like both and can't do either right!

From: JTV
20-Dec-18
With enough pressure from the right government offices/people, forensics can be fudged to show the outcome they want ... I still think there was something fishy going on there, but I also think, Oswald wasnt the only one involved there either ...

From: Kevin Dill
20-Dec-18
Zbone, the thrust of my point is that a shotgun which doesn't make the minimum length (I think it's 26" to meet federal regs) is either illegal or needs a special permit. Those guns are often a pistol grip with no stock. My point wasn't about the grip; completely about the length. So a 6 pound x 25" shotgun is illegal to own (without permit) while you can readily possess a handgun which is much easier to conceal and use in a criminal undertaking.

21-Dec-18
Mueller hid the evidence on this as well Spike.

Heard there were rolls of aluminum foil found in the room also.

From: BowSniper
21-Dec-18
Police photos of the room showed bump-stocked rifles laying all over the place. With enough extra-high cap mags inserted (60-100rd mags) in multiple guns. You can even hear in the video extremely rapid fire, somewhat intermittent, but a bit slower than full auto speed... textbook bump stock performance.

Police response into the room was very slow, TOTALLY believable that a lone shooter could spray that many rounds into a huge crowd with those results!

To believe otherwise in this case leans more towards flat earth stuff, IMHO.

From: scentman
21-Dec-18
BS, was the last comment necessary, do to difference of opinion?

From: Grey Ghost
21-Dec-18
The city of Boulder passes an ordinance that requires residents to certify certain types of firearms (and equipment including bump-stocks) or risk confiscation, and some of you keyboard warriors were ready for civil war.

Now, Trump takes it a step further, and passes legislation that requires certain firearm equipment to be surrendered or destroyed by March, with no option to certify and keep said equipment, like Boulder, and the same people here shrug it off because it doesn't affect them.

There is no bounds to the hypocrisy here.

Matt

From: BowSniper
21-Dec-18

BowSniper's embedded Photo
BowSniper's embedded Photo
Scentman - wasn't really trying to go too far, but your prior comment had me concerned. Please clarify - are you saying you do not believe a single bump stock was ever used in the Vegas shooting?? Because if you came to that conclusion in spite of clear physical proof to the contrary, then it's the same as flat earth theory and no moon landing Internet tin foil hat stuff.

If you are only saying that some 'parts' of the story don't add up, and tub have doubts about the overall government story (like JFK assassination) then I am with you.

The idea that one person "could not" have done the Vegas shooting is incorrect. One person could have done it, and appears to have done it, with the equipment necessary found in the room to do it. But having some doubt about the official story and the why behind it is certainly reasonable.

From: BowSniper
21-Dec-18
Note - that is a police photo of a bump stock rifle on the Vegas hotel room floor, near the tub. If you see the larger room photo you will understand the exact position in the room. Needed to zoom in to show the bump stock. Which again, explains the odd rate of fire recorded on video... very fast, but not full-auto fast.

From: scentman
21-Dec-18
I have doubts over the governments story and for JFK, don't get me started :o) parts, not all of the govt. are corrupt... feds and local. I wholeheartedly support honest rank and file, its the higher ups i don't trust... if any man or woman with common sense does not believe the FBI is corrupt at the utmost top, I got some old Jennings compounds I'll sell ya.

From: Zbone
21-Dec-18
You got this Kevin...

From: TGbow
21-Dec-18
Yep. Another law that the criminals will somehow obey. It wont be the extreme anti gun crowd that tilts the scale all the way in the wrong direction...it will be those that say they are pro second A but will support these laws made by knee jerk reactions that will accomplish nothing.

When I was in high school in the 70s, many of us went to school with guns in our trucks and it was never a problem...so what changed?

From: Annony Mouse
21-Dec-18
If one is going to comply, one might as well comply in the true spirit of the law: malicious compliance.

authoritarian swine, Bump-Fire, gun control

“Compliance”: Bump-Stock-TYPE Devices

The bump stock ban rule is out. Bump-fire stocks are now machineguns. To power-crazed tyrants, anyway. But, since FOPA forbids possession of machineguns manufactured or imported later than May 1986, you’ll have to get rid of them.

You want to be good, right?

I suppose you could simply destroy your bump-fire stock, but if the ATF gets hold of some retailers’ customer list and comes knocking, you’ll want some proof that you already complied. You could hang on to the properly cut up pieces (you do have an oxy-acetylene torch?) and show them that.

Or you could turn in your new contraband like a good little citizen. Mail your bump-fire stock to the ATF.

Oh. Wait. That’s “bump-stock-TYPE device.” “Type” is fairly all-inclusive. To be safe, you should send in any bump-fire assist gadgets you have on hand.

Rubber bands come to mind. So do Jeans (belt loops).

For that matter, none of this is needed to bump-fire a rifle; you can do it with bare hands. But you don’t want to ship those off, so represent them with gloves.

Heck, send them a finger.

Again, any semi-auto rifle can be bump-fired, so any stock is a “bump stock,” right? If you happened to replace the original wood stock for your SKS and have the old one laying around…

..send ’em that.

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives

99 New York Avenue, NE

Washington, DC 20226

Heck, you might even toss some shoestrings in with your bump-fire toys, just in case they change their minds again.

They do that, after all.

Don’t forget to ask for a receipt. You should even consider sending it certified mail.

On the other hand, you might want to keep your stocks. I suppose you could tie 2 bump-stocks together. “No, Mr. ATF. That there is my constitutionally-protected nunchuks.”

From: gflight
21-Dec-18
GG the tingle up their leg won't let them be rational....

From: BIG BEAR
27-Dec-18
^^ That lawsuit will go nowhere.

From: gflight
28-Dec-18
Obama recognized redefining machine guns was unconstitutional. Trump ain't that smart and the NRA needs losses to keep the funds rolling in.

I hope that this comes back as a big win for the Constitution regarding executive branch roles, property rights, and 2a.

I do have the fear that Republican judges won't really touch it being their team and Democrat judges will rule to support it.

From: Annony Mouse
11-Jan-19
Don't have a dog in this fight, but interesting video. Shows that in no way does the bumpstock make a machine gun. Extreme slow-mo shows that there is a distinct trigger reset using one. Video creators made video for use in court.

From: BowSniper
11-Jan-19
At full speed video, the bump stock gimmick allows a semi-auto AR to 500 rounds per minute with one pull (micro slow motion video reset aside). The ATF is closing the loophole, the same way they did with drop-in burst sears. And street-sweeper shotguns, and MAC-10's, etc.

These bump stocks gimmicks are the least Constitutionally defendable (ordinary, common in use). I wonder when they are going to go after the 80% lower gimmick!?!?

From: bigeasygator
11-Jan-19
Not sure I understand the video, Annony? It’s fairly common knowledge how bump stocks and bump firing works and it always involves a trigger reset. There’s no question a bump stock does not create a machine gun per the definition of the NFA. This is precisely why many people (myself very much included) are concerned with the wording around any bump stock ban.

From: Annony Mouse
11-Jan-19
BEG...should have posted the linked article. The video is intended to be used in court challenges to the bump stock ban based upon the BATF/Federal government's own definition of NFA weaponry. Since the bump stock does not actually make a semi auto a fully automatic weapon, the ban could be easily expanded to include any and all semi-automatic firearms. Further, there is a Constitutional problem with the ban as all bump stocks purchased pre ban were legally purchased and the ban automatically makes law abiding gun owners who did purchase a felon unless they comply with the dictate of destroy or turn in. No compensation or grandfather of legally owned bump stocks--a taking.

Now, if the ban allowed presently owned bump stocks to be registered as was done in 1986, there might be a different view. Also, the 1986 law did not prevent further amnesties to be given to bring those war trophies that are being found on a regular basis in someone's WWII vet grandfather's trunk in the attic. Those, since they were unknown and forgotten, must be destroyed under today's law...making some very rare firearms vanish.

Drop in sears are a completely different "animal" as they actually turn a semi-auto into a NFA full auto. Apples/oranges. They are not illegal, but regulated under federal law (registered pre 1986 and tax stamp).

BTW: the semi-auto version of the MAC10 is completely legal. The full auto version is regulated as noted above (registered/tax stamp).

From: Annony Mouse
11-Jan-19
First they came for your bump stocks...now your pistol braces.

Feinstein: We Have to Outlaw Pistol Braces Because They Increase Accuracy

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