Bowsite.com

Do not watch if you have a heart!

YFP, otoh, will have no problem with this.

Do not watch if you have a heart!

YFP, otoh, will have no problem with this.

And leave the rest of the people alone.

It’s interesting how you guys scream SHARIA LAW IS HERE!!!

And then in the next breath, you push your religious belief on others. Keep your religious beliefs to yourself. Let the law of the land ,which makesabortion legal currently, preside.

And yes, I have known people who had abortions. And, of the ones I know, it haunts them to this day.

I consider myself a Libertarian, not all Libertarians are pro abortion. I believe a woman's right to her body is her right but the child is an individual person with their own DNA. Science proves we all have our own DNA. The right to Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness of all individuals. I personally believe homosexuality is wrong...but I don't want the gov to dictate who any adult sleeps with. You don't have to be "religious" to be pro-life. I have met and are friends with Jewish people that are pro life, as well as some agnostics I know that are pro life.

The moment someone may harm, molest, murder another individual..the guilty party robs the individual of their rights. As a college professor who hapoen to be an athiest once told me, "we get our rights from our "humanity", not the government. He was pro life but not because of religious convictions from his view.

Asking someone why they are pro life would be like asking someone in 1850 why they are an abolitionist..some because of religious beliefs and some because of their compassion for fellow human beings....the idea that all life should be treated as a sacred thing.

IT has nothing to do with religion. It has nothing to do with choice. It has to do with human compassion. And fools like YFP argue they care about human kind. That isn't even debatable after showcasing the ability to willingly support the murder of innocent people unable to protect themselves.

You aren't even human if you think this is an acceptable procedure.

And what criteria should the court consider in their decision?

Matt.

1. Has the baby committed a crime worthy of the death penalty.

The absolute definition of evil and mental disorder is to justify such actions. No other way of saying it. Then you get some cheese head fruit ball that brings up incest and/or health reasons as supporting it.

How’s this BEG, let’s stop all of the other 95% of murdering innocent baby’s first. Then as a society, we could have a real talk about the need for the rest.

Because when kids need love and compassion, you seem ok when they’re removed from parents screaming and crying. When 2 recent babies died in US custody I saw no posts of compassion and protest in defense of those babies.

I’m curious. When does the passionate defense of babies end?

The Humanist has their own personal values to lead them and that allows for "momentary principles" to take hold or to blow in the wind of rationalizing. Ever changing or flexible.

Can we do good without knowing God? Those who recognize and follow goodness over evil listen to that which has been placed there by our creator and those that follow evil are following the other voice that is against God.

It's just easier to read the book. And Follow.

You are implying that the border agency is not compassionate. That is not the facts and findings. That's a False argument to support values of open borders.

It is sad that a parent has exposed their child to harsh elements and perhaps diseases for whatever reason they did it. Compassionate people are working to get to the bottom of the problem at its origins. As well as at its destination, (the country we have). If its a problem now (it is) then it wasn't fixed before.

We need to fix the problem at its core. Those other countries need help in making "staying home " an attractive option.

We don't stop anything after the fact ... we are just patching up the results. At least it is now being worked on and not just talked about. The answer is Not to ignore the issue and just let it keep going as it is... That's for sure.

We have to plug the end of this pipe to find the leaks.

What you guys keep calling “babies” have no nerve cells, no eyes, no ears, no brain stem, no developed circulatory system, no fingers, toes, etc and they are far too tiny to be “ripped apart by a vacuum.” Mostly these things are done via a pill these days. So ultimately what I’m saying is that I have a problem with people characterizing abortion in ways that are misleading.

What should be beyond dispute is the end product; any interruption in the process (outside of the aforementioned one above) will end a human life-there's simply no way, semantics aside, from avoiding that reality.

Most lay people would be surprised to learn the cells that will eventually form the brain, heart, circulatory system and other organs/tissues are developing (and recognizable) early in the 1st trimester; in fact, the neural tube is closing in week 6. Prior to the end of the 1st trimester not only does the developing fetus have fingers and toes they have fingernails and the sucking reflex is already established (hopefully I don't need to explain the need for nerve function for this to occur....)

There are a number of flawed pro-abortion arguments; certainly the most prominent involve health of the mother and cases of rape or incest. What's often lost in the obvious emotional impact of those situations is the fact that combined they barely account for 10% of abortions (from ACOG and PP). The remaining approximate 90% are simply a matter of convenience. What does it say about any society that reduces human life to a disposable commodity?

Perhaps the most galling is the argument centered on survivability outside of the womb. Leaving aside the medical advances that can now save lives even as premature as 16 weeks gestation let's focus instead on the obvious reality of the survivability of a 3-month old baby or even a 2-year old baby absent any adult intervention.

If survivabilility is anyone's holy grail it's an easily shredded false god.

Aside from the issue of my religious beliefs the other problem I have with pro-abortion advocates is their inability to fully own the choice; of course a position that openly states ending human life as it's goal would probably not garner nearly as much support as the sanitized "pro-choice" position, would it?

We know: It is a developing organism of Human substance, functioning in a system that culminates in a predictable end. Human life. We know that: Interrupting that system is disrupting and ending that developing life.

Your premise and objection rest on the presumption that its early stages are less valuable, less sacred or less alive than the later stages or post-birth and it follows that the life of an old or otherwise unproductive person is equally at risk by your parameters.

All Human life is dependent on its supporting environment, from conception to death.

Would it be a crime to abort someone else's developing human fetus by our own desire? and would it be more than just a material issue if brought before the Judge? 20$ in blood and flesh paid to the defendant and court fees ... Somehow I doubt when looking at it like that, we can reduce the fetus to just a blob of tissue like a wort.

We treat incarcerated murderers better than that because without the support they die.

What's religion have to do with killing another human being? Doesn't take a God-fearing Bible-thumper to know that killing another life, especially an innocent defenseless life, is pure evil. Idiots like you are exactly who Reagan was referring to years ago when he said in a speech on abortion, as he looked out over the crowd, is that the irony of those who are FOR abortion is that they are already HERE! How would you feel if we stuck a forceps in your brain and pulled you out and tossed you in the garbage, fav poster, would you like that? I wouldn't wish that on anyone, not even you as much as I despise your sick belief that it's somehow ok...so long as it's not you, right??

To answer Paul...a pro lifer should be pro life no matter what the age of the person.

Evil has always existed...even things done under the bannerbof God. Whether we accept it or not our nation will never flourish as long as we condone the innocent slaughter of any life.

Just as the horrible atrocity of slavery vexed our nation because we allowed it and except for the abolitionist, we turned a blind eye as a nation.

Gotta give it to the anti-abortion propagandists for misconstruing the facts.

Again, fact is that most abortions occur early in the first trimester and don’t involve a fetus that looks anything close to what was shown in that video. You cannot see the fingers and toes because they haven’t developed. The “child” as this doctor called it is something about the size of a sesame seed or lentil and looks like the picture above. I know, embryos just don’t tug at the heartstrings like fetuses do.

Support the murder of the unborn up to and including LTA, and celebrate it as "choice".

Abortions from week 21 on account for about 1.2% of all abortions; Jason, I don't see any validity in your assertion about misrepresentation about abortions in the OP's first post when the video is clearly titled 2nd trimester abortion. As context is provided it's not inaccurate. Whether it's misleading is predicated upon the inability of the reader/viewer to ascertain what the second trimester of a pregnancy entails and a complete disinterest or inability to research statistics on 2nd trimester abortions.

If anyone is performing linguistic gymnastics it's the pro-abortion crowd who strain mightily to avoid the undeniable fact that a human life is being ended by choice. Whether it is a zygote, embryo, fetus or baby is irrelevant to the only facts that matter; it is the product of a biological action where the genetic material used for construction is human; the end product (absent miscarriage or other catastrophic event) will only be human.

You and all others who share a similar viewpoint are certainly entitled to your opinion on the subject; you are not entitled to manipulate or outright deny facts to assuage any pangs of conscience or mute valid criticisms of the position.

We never hear about the founder of Planned Parenthood, Margret Sainger, whose motives involved cutting down on African American pregnancies. A pure racist like Hitler.

Some Pro choicers remind me of some politicians in the 19th century. I don't believe in slavery but if a person wants to own slaves it should be their right to do so. The slave is either a human being created by God, or a person by their humanity if you happen to not believe in God, or the slave is sub human....not equal to other races. The abolitionist would argue, and rightfully so, that the slave should be treated with dignity and respect because they are equal to any other race.

So, being pro choice means you do not look at the child as an equal human being...no matter what your excuse may be.

Do I think the government should have any role in it, absolutely not.

If a woman can find a doctor to kill that innocent child while in the womb it's none of my business the baby is part of her body.

The murderers will have to live with it not me.

As such, it is perfectly consistent to refer to a pro-abortion crowd as reality certainly confirms such a population segment exists. What hasn't been suggested, implied or inferred anywhere on this thread is that pro-choice universally equates to pro-abortion; in this case such a suggestion arises not only from the imbecilic but the patently disingenuous. It is the act of the morally bankrupt coward who cannot defend a position purely on merit and must therefore erect the obligatory straw man when the fact-based argument(s) get in the way of those rooted solely in "feelings".

Biological facts do not support the "it's not a baby/human" fallacy; if you believe otherwise then produce facts to the contrary.

Fetal viability is no different than infant post-natal survivability for realistically at least up to age 2 absent adult intervention; again, if you can find facts to contradict this pony up or simply have the decency to stop subjecting anyone who hasn't misplaced their morality with the vacuous arguments offered to defend the morally indefensible.

As a male I can't have an abortion, but can be a factor in that creation of new life. If I have an opinion to share about folks who want to stop viable humans from developing and charging someone else to do it no one can stop me. Damn glad Mom and Dad chose life for me and my numerous siblings. As such parents brought forth almost 150 new human beings into existence. Powerful stuff if used properly.Feel free to challenge the importance of a great, great grandmother in her mid 90s, who still votes and has lots and lots of friends in the senior living community she calls home..

Second, some should go on over to the BG forum. There is a nice little thread going about a Bowsiter baby being born at only 24 weeks, and so far doing well. Yes, some of you do need to be shamed.

Third, I can attest that a heartbeat can be very noticeable, even down to 5 weeks. I have seen it very clearly on a T-V ultrasound on a child I helped create.

- a) Why is that a 'delicate choice?' and b) does that mean dear old mom and her gynecologist can eradicate us at will? Anytime? If not why?

Jeremiah 1:4-5 ESV Now the word of the Lord came to me, saying, “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

Thus says the LORD who made you And formed you from the womb, who will help you, 'Do not fear, O Jacob My servant; And you Jeshurun whom I have chosen. Jeremiah 20:17

Because he did not kill me before birth, So that my mother would have been my grave, And her womb ever pregnant. Psalm 139:13-16

For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother's womb. I will give thanks t Ecclesiastes 11:5

Just as you do not know the path of the wind and how bones are formed in the womb of the pregnant woman, so you do not know the activity of God who makes all things.

"Sanctity of life"

Judaism has a supreme concern for the sanctity of human life.

According to the Mishnah (Sanhedrin 4:5):

Whoever destroys one life is as if he destroyed a whole world, and whoever preserves a life is as if he preserved the whole world.

Apart from an overall regard for the sanctity of life, Judaism finds other reasons to forbid abortion:

killing a fetus breaks God's command to populate the world killing a fetus destroys something made in God's image killing a fetus is wanton destruction of part of God's creation killing a fetus destroys something that could become a being killing a fetus is an unjustifiable act of wounding it is wrong to injure oneself

Exceptions include the known threat to the would-be mother or other sufficiently serious sufferings that would occur.

Times were once different- my maternal great grandmother was a mid-wife helped bring hundreds of children to this world. Reportedly never lost one, which if true would be amazing given the times and lack of resources in rural central MN.. Didn't become rich either, back when folks helped each other a lot and believed in God.

P.S. She had 17 of her own at home too (2 sets of twins)

Paul - if it is a "delicate" decision for the mother to make, what does that tell you? More to it than just a woman's right to her body. Talk about the justification of justifications for pride, weakness, and out right selfishness.

Only a dumbass thinks abortion is an OK practice to population control. The ones who think that should be the first to volunteer for population control. And, only a complete dumabss thinks abortion is an OK practice because of a birth defect, such as down syndrome...

I'm an avid reader of "Skeptic" magazine. It's excellent across the board. This month there is a fantastic article on abortion that is worth the read. I checked the site and didnt see it, other than as something you could purchase, so I cant link it, beyond a link one could go to to buy a digital copy of the current edition. https://www.skeptic.com/magazine/ Most places that sell a lot of periodicals will also carry it. I tend to read it at the Library or buy it at Barnes and Noble here.

Worth a read. Probably wont change anyone's mind, but it's an interesting discussion on the topic I'd not seen so clearly elucidated before.

Well, if that's true why did you bring up the subject...are you a woman?? Seems like you should stick to something you know...whatever that is..

Death by liberal Democrat policies which end up killing people?

Which they do.

How about asking the baby if he/she wants to be cut apart and killed in the womb?

Here's who you advocate murdering.

My granddaughter, less than two hours after she was delivered and my grandson, just after he was delivered.

Defend that position!

Here's my grandson at less than one year old.

Is he, too, just another 'unviable tissue mass' that you're just fine with killing?

At one time a poster here implied they felt crime rates correlated to removal of prayer from public schools.

A higher correlation exists IMO to when abortion was legalized. De-valuing human life in the womb IMHO has devalued life in general, and people behave accordingly.

My heart hurts for not just the babies, but the individuals who have participated in such a heinous procedure. God forgives all, the babies are angels no doubt.

We had two miscarriages, and I know Robin and I will have our family in heaven. And I will be the perfect father there that I would have never accomplished here on Earth.

No culture will survive that allows the slaughter of the innocent. Forget religion for a moment...by difinition, the child is a person unto it'self, scientificly.

The pro abortion crowd are agreeing with the pro slavery and anti-Jewish crowd from the past...agreeing that some classes of individuals are sub human.

I can't imagine the pain you all felt.

The left tries to rationalize abortion by claiming those beautiful little people in the womb are simply "unviable tissue masses."

Yet what is a baby who is born because he/she was not murdered in the womb? That baby is no more capable of surviving on its' own for a few years after it is born than it was while it was in the womb.

Is that baby also an "unviable tissue mass?"

Thirty or more decades ago, I was on the fence on the issue.

Then I began to realize that something dies when a 'pro-choice' woman, (what an absolute crock those words are, because unless she was raped, she MADE the choice on her own and of her own free will to possibly become pregnant), yet then decided to kill her baby because having a baby wasn't "convenient."

i think I want to throw up at the very idea.

Yet according to Paul Zeidan, neither one should have been allowed to be born in the first place.

In addition, if you have seen a relative try for years to have a child then be graced with one who has a serious malformity (e.g. a 3 chamber heart) ultimately doesn't survive past 3 months that will affect you as well.

"unviable tissue mass?" my my, what a statement. The Ghost of Christmas Present would be so impressed with your idea of decreasing the surplus population. Pay attention to the children "ignorance" and "want" for on their brow is spelled DOOM!!

To be clear about Gods forgiving ... As a model of the order of our forgiveness. You may forgive without their repentance but the relationship is not intact.

Notice the act of stating the offense( "Rebuke him" who sins ). Notice the need for repentance ( Those who offend must accept responsibility) to "Repent". Then there is forgiveness in the true sense. Whereby, The relationship is restored.

Luke 17:3-4, “If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him, and if he sins against you seven times in the day, and turns to you seven times, saying, ‘I repent,’ you must forgive him”

2 Chronicles 7:14…[when my people] turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, will forgive their sin and heal their land.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful to forgive us our sins…

Lords word, Amen

I hate these terms, but for the sake of continuity. For Pro Lifers - please visit, contribute and support. They have some great messages on T-shirts For pro choice - (BEG & YFP) please visit with an open mind and see if you can refute his arguments. I don't believe you can.

Finally, one of his shirts has a saying on it that I love.........

For the Pro Choice crowd....Would it bother you more it they used a gun?

James