Summit Treestands
Border Brainstorming
Community
Contributors to this thread:
BowSniper 09-Jan-19
bigeasygator 09-Jan-19
Fivers 09-Jan-19
JTV 09-Jan-19
bigswivle 09-Jan-19
BowSniper 09-Jan-19
Your fav poster 09-Jan-19
JTV 09-Jan-19
Annony Mouse 09-Jan-19
HedgeHunter 09-Jan-19
Your fav poster 09-Jan-19
JTV 09-Jan-19
JTV 09-Jan-19
Your fav poster 09-Jan-19
Annony Mouse 09-Jan-19
JTV 09-Jan-19
JTV 09-Jan-19
Jimbo 09-Jan-19
HedgeHunter 09-Jan-19
DoorKnob 09-Jan-19
JTV 09-Jan-19
elkmtngear 09-Jan-19
Woods Walker 09-Jan-19
JTV 09-Jan-19
Glunt@work 10-Jan-19
HedgeHunter 10-Jan-19
BowSniper 10-Jan-19
South Farm 10-Jan-19
bigeasygator 10-Jan-19
HedgeHunter 10-Jan-19
BowSniper 10-Jan-19
kps@work 10-Jan-19
Michael 10-Jan-19
jjs 10-Jan-19
Annony Mouse 10-Jan-19
jjs 10-Jan-19
JTV 10-Jan-19
Annony Mouse 10-Jan-19
bigeasygator 10-Jan-19
JTV 10-Jan-19
TD 10-Jan-19
JTV 10-Jan-19
AccMan 10-Jan-19
shade mt 11-Jan-19
Owl 11-Jan-19
K Cummings 11-Jan-19
HedgeHunter 11-Jan-19
BowSniper 11-Jan-19
Woods Walker 11-Jan-19
BowSniper 11-Jan-19
HedgeHunter 11-Jan-19
Solo 11-Jan-19
HA/KS 11-Jan-19
elkmtngear 11-Jan-19
TD 11-Jan-19
BowSniper 11-Jan-19
Trax 11-Jan-19
HA/KS 11-Jan-19
DL 11-Jan-19
HA/KS 11-Jan-19
HedgeHunter 11-Jan-19
JTV 11-Jan-19
JTV 11-Jan-19
JTV 11-Jan-19
BowSniper 11-Jan-19
JTV 11-Jan-19
Woods Walker 11-Jan-19
HA/KS 11-Jan-19
HedgeHunter 12-Jan-19
JTV 12-Jan-19
elkmtngear 12-Jan-19
JTV 12-Jan-19
elkmtngear 12-Jan-19
JTV 12-Jan-19
HA/KS 12-Jan-19
HedgeHunter 12-Jan-19
HA/KS 12-Jan-19
HedgeHunter 13-Jan-19
HA/KS 13-Jan-19
HedgeHunter 13-Jan-19
BowSniper 13-Jan-19
JTV 13-Jan-19
HedgeHunter 13-Jan-19
JTV 13-Jan-19
JTV 13-Jan-19
Grey Ghost 13-Jan-19
HedgeHunter 13-Jan-19
elkmtngear 13-Jan-19
Your fav poster 13-Jan-19
Spike Bull 13-Jan-19
elkmtngear 13-Jan-19
HedgeHunter 13-Jan-19
Grey Ghost 13-Jan-19
HedgeHunter 13-Jan-19
Woods Walker 13-Jan-19
HA/KS 13-Jan-19
slade 14-Jan-19
slade 14-Jan-19
From: BowSniper
09-Jan-19
So where do you think this goes now....?

Trump wants $5 billion for a wall, Dems refuse to give a nickel. Both sides dug in... Trump with his signature issue, the Dems determined to deny him a win at all costs.

The House and Senate need to get a bill together that 51 Senators and the President will sign, and I don't think Trump is taking much less than $5b now that he has made the oval office speech. That would mean the Dems have to budge. And I don't think there is much chance for 67 Senators with democrats in minority to agree on a bill with chimp change to override a presidential veto. If the GOP folds, this administraton and the party are done. Any thoughts for what happens next?

Trump really might have to go with declaring a national emergency. What else will break the stalemate?

The WORST thing that can happen would be for Trump to get his $5 billion which funds just a fraction of a wall, and the Dems get what they want with Dreamer amnesty. In which case we still have illegals pouring across the border, and still have uncontrolled chain migration. A lose-lose for America.

The only true win-win would be if Trump get his 4 pillars for major immigration reform with $25b for a complete wall, and is able to give more in exchange. But Dems likely want the issue to exploit, and want the future illegal voters too much to allow any real progress.

We shall see.

From: bigeasygator
09-Jan-19
No clue how this one ends. The issue is entirely political at this point, so there’s no telling. It’s not about the money - $5 bln is nothing. I think Trump bumbled the whole thing by hitching it to his vision for “The Wall.” Even without much in the way of details, it’s clear this isn’t the walll he campaigned on. If he really cared about security and making a deal I think he would have decoupled what he’s currently asking for from what he campaigned on.

That said, he didn’t because I think he didn’t want to look like he didn’t deliver on his campaign promise and because he wants that feather in his cap. Because of that, the Dems dug in and it really has nothing to do with caring about border security from either party and everything to do with notching a political win.

To that end, no clue how this one’s gonna end.

From: Fivers
09-Jan-19
I'm not for blanket amnesty. I'd be fine with some type of deal for a fast track to legal citizenship though. Pick a determined length of time that the illegals had to be hear, just say 10 years minimum, they have 1 year from the day the bill was passed to start the process of "earning" legal citizenship. Once the process is started, they have 3 years to complete all of the legal paperwork and processes to become "legal" and have it be done. Anyone here less than 10 years here gets deported, anyone here 1 year after the bill passed that didn't start their process gets deported and anyone here after 4 years that hasn't completed the process is gone.

That will give the "dreamers"/illegals an incentive to become legal without just giving it to them and it would make it easier for ICE to do their jobs and rid our Country of illegals.

Of course, this only comes after the full funding for the "wall" and border security has been approved and implemented!!

From: JTV
09-Jan-19
Trump will get it done, declare Nat. Emergency and the dems will bitch, moan, scream and lie some more and make fools out of themselves, even more than what they have already done ... a wall/barrier will get built ...

From: bigswivle
09-Jan-19
If he caves, he might as well not even run in ‘20. My gut feeling is the Dems will give up ounce federal employees stop receiving paychecks. BEG is right, 6billion is not a lot of money, this is purely political now.

From: BowSniper
09-Jan-19
The Dems are all caught on tape supporting a wall and border security against illegal immigration in prior statements.

But then Trunp has the video where he said he would gladly shut down the government which puts a lot if heat on him when paychecks stop.

I think he gets no less that 3.5 billion for a wall; but that make a such a little difference along the e tire border rhat no one will notice.

He ought to put the entire value in ONE section of wall and monitor results. No one gets over, they all pour into the next town over... and then THEY can join the chorus for wanting more wall !

09-Jan-19
But why is it suddenly an emergency now?

Where was this urgency when he had the house and the senate?

From a political standpoint, is it stupid that he is demanding it now when he lost the house?

If he thinks Pelosi is giving in, he’s mistaken.

This will not end well for trump.

From: JTV
09-Jan-19
Didnt PutZ say he would leave when Trump won ... Hell, I know he did ... why is PutZ still here ? .... did he 'lie' about leaving for good, well hell, he sure did .... with all 35+ different FAKE NAMES and registrations also he has lied ...... PutZ is now inconsequential and as irrelevant as can be ...

From: Annony Mouse
09-Jan-19
My tongue-in-cheek thought:

EO: Not one dime of taxpayer monies will go to any ILLEGAL nor will they qualify for any kind of social benefit (education, SNAP, housing, medical, etc.). However, for humanity's sake, there will be a check off on your tax form allowing the social Democrats to create a separate fund created for that specific use. Make the pro-crime/open border supporters put their money where their mouths are.

Nancy...tear down YOUR wall!

From: HedgeHunter
09-Jan-19
I said this already. This was not a Knee jerk action by the DJT Admin. This was planned.

The Dems all have Votes for a wall funding at much higher levels in past. Admin knew this.

POTUS has a better hand, has Bully Pulpit, Bully Twitter and will not cave to Rino's in House or Senate.

What yer going to see is a PeePee contest between the radical left base and the WH. I am very sure the WH had prepared the Senate and house GOP for a Long War here to get funding to start building.

Time smiles favorable on DJT. Each day more Americans will die at hands of illegals, more Armies of Occupation will come as weather warms.

Neither side wants move, as time draws this will be the main issue for 2020 and POTUS will take it to the polls and will likely take 40 States and take in record $ donations.

Dems have been played here and they now know it. They hoping for miracle or a world crisis elsewhere.

HH~

09-Jan-19
I don’t know. How many democrats do you hear caving?

Last I checked 4 Republicans were vocal about the potus re-opening the govt.

Trump is losing support in public and among his party. That much is clear.

From: JTV
09-Jan-19
more lies from the liar n PutZ

From: JTV
09-Jan-19
Facts PutZ, these are facts and the truth, something you nor your fellow dems know nothing about ..

once again for the daft among us ... like the PutZedians over the past two years, approximately 4,000 criminal aliens have been arrested for homicide, 30,000 for sex crimes, over a 100,000 for violent assaults. These are against American citizens. In 2018 alone, 17,000 individuals with criminal records were apprehended trying to cross this border, 60,000 inadmissible or illegal immigrants are turned away from our borders every single month. And over the last few weeks 20,000 children were smuggled or trafficked into the United States. Illegal drugs are also pouring across the southern border.

every seven days, 300 Americans die from a heroin overdose. 90 percent of that highly toxic and addictive chemical comes south of the border. Given all these facts, why not give our border patrol the tools they are asking for, that they need, that they desperately call for -- and that is a strategic wall on our southern border.

all those against border security/wall/ barrier they once voted for it, Clinton, Boxer, Fienstein, Pelosi, Schumer, Binden and Obama among other dems ... the only thing that has changed is that Trump is now in office.... the Dems now care more about party politics and only their party and stopping Trump at all costs, even of it means more lives of American citizens are taken by Illegals ... the Dems just dont care .... (all the above came from Govt websites or Foxnews)

09-Jan-19
reminder to trump: your party controlled the Presidency, House and Senate and you were unable to get your unamerican wall built.

I’m not sure you’re in the position to demand anything from the American people and hold federal workers hostage.

Actually Not a reminder at all. he had 2 years. Instead we saw Total incompetence and now he blames the Dems?

He’s a fool.

From: Annony Mouse
09-Jan-19
"He’s I'm a fool. "

Corrected

From: JTV
09-Jan-19

JTV's Link
PutZ is the one that is totally incompetent , he proves that every time he posts ....

No POTUS has done more in his first two years to help America that Trump has done ...

https://www.whitehouse.gov/trump-administration-accomplishments/

From: JTV
09-Jan-19

JTV's Link
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/trumps-list-289-accomplishments-in-just-20-months-relentless-promise-keeping

From: Jimbo
09-Jan-19
Question... Why didn't the Republicans fund the wall when they controlled the House, Senate and Presidency over the past two years? Why are they only pushing for the funds now that the Democrats control the House?

From: HedgeHunter
09-Jan-19
Because you had Rinos in the Senate that would not support a stand alone bill and put name to a yes vote. Where ya been? This has been beat up. The two AZ terds were No’s and several others. One from Maine.

Pudz. You must be living in a self perpetuating liberal atmosphere.

The Dems are losing support everyday this tic tocs. Their postion weakens. For reasons i stated above.

To Add the House a Senate wasted months on a new Healthcare Bill, months.

Who screwed the Nation on that? One vote short!

The Great whack job John McTerd of Rinoville, AZ

From: DoorKnob
09-Jan-19
Did I miss the cost benefit analysis on this? Has the CBO weighed in?

From: JTV
09-Jan-19
the illegals are costing this country well over $116 BILLION a year , the wall/barrier is a grain of sand, esp. when one also looks at the whole budget ... this is now about the lousy dems stopping Trump even when it costs the lives of American citizens, Chucky and Pelosi dont care .. to them, it is dems first, Citizens second or third even

From: elkmtngear
09-Jan-19
We've probably spent a Trillion kicking this can down the road for the last 20+ Years...time to get it done!

From: Woods Walker
09-Jan-19
"He’s/ I'm a LYING fool. " "Corrected"...................DOUBLE corrected!

From: JTV
09-Jan-19

JTV's Link
Pelosi/Schumer Pathological liars !! .... sounds like some one else we all know on here .....

https://www.conservativereview.com/news/levin-schumer-and-pelosi-are-pathological-liars-never-forced-to-explain-their-flip-flop-on-the-wall/

From: Glunt@work
10-Jan-19
Most folks I'm around aren't in any hurry for the government shutdown to end. They haven't noticed a thing.

From: HedgeHunter
10-Jan-19
The Nevercrats

Most Americans see this as a Crisis.

Nevrcrats fear the Voter more than anything. When these Armies of Occupation start to move and the unpaid voters start crying toward their elected officals Nevercrats will come running to deal.

When you got folks Hollywood saying "let DJT build it" Nevercrats have a huge problem.

Here's the BEST PART of this issue. The DJT WH had to have this in mind when they started this strategy on the Wall. They had to know that everyday this is front and center the House really cant effectively do much in the House while this is occupying their attention.

Every moment this burns up a day we move closer to 2020. The Dems loose a day put forward looney socialist bills up to a vote.

POTUS has these folks running in circles screaming Never Never. Look at what happened to the Bill outta house? Waste of time, going No where.

Smart DJT

KAG

HH~

From: BowSniper
10-Jan-19
The wall funding didn't get passed when the Republicans controlled the house because of the filibuster rule. There were not 60 republicans to pass legislation without at least some Democrats also on board. Surely you must know this Putz, so your question must be a lame attempt at rhetorical sarcasm. Just remember... when government grinds to a halt and both immigrants and Americans suffer and die, this all goes back to Dems and their dopey resist/obstruct movement. And the America people are eventually going to notice.

The last 'super majority' was held by the democrats during the first two years of the Obama administration. What did they accomplish for immigration under their complete Democratic control and vision, Putz? Nothing. Bunch of friggin' phonies.

So yeah, the Dems can dig in on this and try to stymie Trump on the wall. Maybe they will even succeed. But where does that get them? What spending legislation do THEY want? What promises and priorities do THEY think they can deliver to their left-wing backers? Because none of that shit will pass either without republicans votes. And Trump can use the veto and force more cooperation than Dems cam ever deliver. Total gridlock for the forseeable future. Dems stop and wall and gain what? Nothing.

They dont realize yet that Trump is a different animal, and they just took the "progress" completely out of "progressive". And would call that a win. Funny!

From: South Farm
10-Jan-19
Considering Minnesota land of libtards are planning to build a 2.5 BILLION dollar choo-choo train from Minneapolis to Eden Prairie (about 20 miles), I'd say a 2000 mile wall costing just 5.5 Billion is a hell of a deal!!! And I'm willing more people want a wall than this stupid f'n train!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From: bigeasygator
10-Jan-19
”the illegals are costing this country well over $116 BILLION a year.”

That number (as dubious as it may be) is only the cost side if the cost/BENEFIT analysis. You guys that keep making an economic argument for the wall either don’t understand this or are completely ignoring it.

And why wasn’t funding it funded the first two years of DJT’s term? Because it would have been defeated then and the loss would have been with control of both the House and the Senate. Now, he can at least blame the Dems for blocking things. Politics.

From: HedgeHunter
10-Jan-19
This Subject wins everyday all day for DJT.

Longer its on top is another day House Nevercrats lose to accomplish much of anything.

Obummer super Majority was wasted on BO Care. Which ate up all the super majority. Soon that nightmare will be shredded too. Could have been worse if the Liberals had actually worked hard on several bills they could have ruined America for 100yrs instead of just 10. Or rather til it brought us DJT

Thanks Obummer

MAGA

HH~

From: BowSniper
10-Jan-19
BEG -why wasn't it passed in the first two years of Trump's term? WHAT is this the new talking point Dems are encouraged to sell?

Asked and answered two posts up. The filibuster rule and 60 votes, where a couple of Dems would have needed to vote yes.

From: kps@work
10-Jan-19
Trumps proposed wall funding as percentage of planned 2019 budget = Elizabeth Warren's DNA percentage Native American = 1/1000 or 0.1%

From: Michael
10-Jan-19
The immigration can has been kicked for far to many years. Unless we fix it now it’s only going to get worse.

When we have sanctuary cities and healthcare for all (illegal or not) it is just a big invitation to come here.

I wonder how many illegals claim exempt on there W4?

From: jjs
10-Jan-19
Southfarm you are sooooo right about Mn. Counsel, a waste of $ that very few will use, can say more but will be called a bigot if I did. I put it straight forward, one that does not support the Wall/ restrictive illegal immigration is for criminal activist for supporting the deaths, drugs, human sex traffic and illegal labor laws, there is no defensive rebuttal for it. Either you for it or you are against it and it is as easy as that and apparently the DNC are criminal activist.

From: Annony Mouse
10-Jan-19
Minneapolis: Muslim refugee brutally rapes 10-year-old girl, media hides facts

They can’t even use the “Asian” moniker for this Muslim nightmare. via Muslim refugee charged with raping 10-year-old girl

A 34-year-old Muslim immigrant has been arrested and charged with brutally raping a 10-year-old girl in Minnesota and the local media in Minneapolis has refused to identify the man as a refugee from Somalia.

KSTP 5, an ABC affiliate in Minneapolis, referred to the suspect, Ahmed Hersi Abdi as “A Minneapolis man.” CBS affiliate WCCO 4 used the same description, giving no mention of the man’s background or how he arrived in the U.S.

The attack occurred Sunday evening in an apartment complex in the city’s Cedar Riverside neighborhood, also known as “Little Mogadishu” for its high concentration of Somali refugees imported from United Nations refugee camps in Africa.

Abdi allegedly followed the girl out of an elevator. He asked for her name and offered his hand to her. She shook his hand and Abdi refused to let go. Police said he proceeded to rape the girl in the hallway of the apartment building.

Authorities used video surveillance footage to help track down the suspect, who was arrested about 24 hours later on Monday in St. Paul.

The U.S. government has resettled more than 110,000 Somali refugees since the early 1990s and shipped in another 8,858 during the most recent fiscal year, which ended Sept. 30, according to U.S. State Department data.

Witnesses said they heard screaming in the hall and saw a young girl crying, so they flagged down an off-duty police officer.

The girl was sent to Hennepin County Medical Center for treatment.

The Minneapolis Police Department’s John Elder said the officers knew who the suspect was after seeing the video because they’d had frequent encounters with him.

Abdi has a long rap sheet. According to court records, he was convicted of trespassing in 2003, disorderly conduct in 2003 and public urination in 2012.

Several other previous charges against Abdi have been dismissed. In 2011, he was charged with two counts of fifth-degree assault and one count of disorderly conduct, which were all dismissed after he was found incompetent to stand trial, according to court records.

The court dismissed another fifth-degree assault charge in 2010 citing “mental deficiency.”

In 2002, a fifth-degree assault charge against Abdi was dismissed. And, last year, a lurking charge against him was also tossed out of court.

Refugee resettlement watchdog Ann Corcoran, who has followed the refugee program closely since 2007, said in a case like this it is “pretty easy to figure out” that Abdi is an immigrant and yet no one in Minnesota is asking how he has managed to evade deportation with such a lengthy criminal record.

“Ahmed Hersi Abdi has a long criminal record. So, why wasn’t he deported?” she asks in her latest blog.

From: jjs
10-Jan-19
Everyone should read about Cesar Chaves how he handle illegals crossing the border, they did not mess around, consider a threat to the field workers wages, like scapes to union workers. There is a Cesar Chaves Blvd in St. Paul, Mn.,which he is celebrated during Cinco de Mayo.

From: JTV
10-Jan-19
Beg, the $116 BILLION is on the low side by some studies... look at all the lives lost and illegal activities by these illegals .... dont worry, we dont need wall/barrier deniers like you, Trump will get it done .....

From: Annony Mouse
10-Jan-19
Heck, even Trump's arch nemesis Jim Accosta is tacitly supporting The Wall !!!!

CNN’s Jim Acosta mocked for accidentally proving that border walls work

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi might want to confiscate someone’s selfie stick.

CNN’s Jim Acosta was mocked across social media on Thursday for posting a video that was meant to downplay President Trump's claims of a border crisis -- but ended up supporting his argument that border barriers improve security.

“Here are some of the steel slats that the president’s been talking about,” Acosta said while reporting from the southern border. “But as we’re walking along here, we’re not seeing any kind of imminent danger.”

The CNN reporter added, “There are no migrants trying to rush toward this fence.”

Acosta then declared there was “no sign of the national emergency that the president has been talking about” and it was “tranquil” near him. He captioned the video, “I found some steel slats down on the border. But I don’t see anything resembling a national emergency situation.. at least not in the McAllen TX area of the border where Trump will be today.”

CNN’s chief White House correspondent – who seemingly uploaded the video from a local Burger King – is in Texas awaiting Trump’s border visit. While Acosta often clashes with the president and his aides, pundits suggested he did the president a favor this time.

Media watchdogs were quick to point out that the CNN reporter’s video helps prove Trump’s point that a wall or barrier along the Southern border could help prevent illegal border crossings.

“Jim Acosta just posted one of the biggest self owns ever,” social media strategist Caleb Hull responded. ‘He's walking along the border where there's a wall in place talking about how there's nothing that ‘resembles a national emergency situation’ and ‘there's no migrants trying to rush.’ That's because there's a wall, Jim.”

continued...

Nancy...tear down YOUR wall!

From: bigeasygator
10-Jan-19
"Beg, the $116 BILLION is on the low side by some studies... look at all the lives lost and illegal activities by these illegals .... dont worry, we dont need wall/barrier deniers like you, Trump will get it done ....."

You do understand that illegal immigrants due contribute economically to this country, right? Every study I've seen that has conducted a cost/BENEFIT analysis has shown illegal immigrants to be anything but a net drain on the economy.

JTV, can you at least acknowledge that (1) cheap labor benefits US citizens and (2) the numbers you quote entirely ignore that benefit?

From: JTV
10-Jan-19

JTV's Link
nope, I admit to none of that crap ... if the illegals want to work here, do it the right and legal way ... What part of ILLEGAL do you not understand ?? ....

https://www.theepochtimes.com/border-wall-would-pay-for-itself-study_2762550.html

From: TD
10-Jan-19
If Acosta were actually packing a pair...... I know some ranchers that would take his whiny azz out at places on the border desert and drop him off a few nights and he could really "experience" what was going on..... armed bands of human traffickers moving though at will.....

From: JTV
10-Jan-19

JTV's Link
https://news.grabien.com/story-things-democrats-have-funded-cost-more-border-wall

From: AccMan
10-Jan-19
I want the wall, build the wall. There are americans, funded by the likes of Soros that travel to mexico to organize caravans, and assist illegals with illegal border crossings. Why aren't these people charged with aiding and abetting illegal immigration and their passports revoked? Why doesn't our State Department combat the lies told to these illegals to get them to participate and illegally make the crossing? We should charge the organizers and scare the living hell out of the participants to make them think twice about making the trek. We have all seen the organizers on the news in mexico, so why not snatch their passports while in mexico and then charge them making an example out of them in front of the illegals?

From: shade mt
11-Jan-19
I'm a bricklayer and concrete finisher, carpenter by trade....give me some men ILL BUILD YOU A FLIPPIN WALL!!!!!! what part of this country is turning into a Spanish Mexican country don't you leftist people understand? of course possibly you do understand? hmmmm After all without minority, suck off the gov't, free hand out votes.....Your losing support from the average, honest ,Christian, conservative, hard working American...After all without us how else could you get all your candy cane ideals passed?

From: Owl
11-Jan-19
Based on the sex trafficing alone, not building a wall is unconscionable. This is the era of the "Me Too" movement? That's laughable. Tragically laughable.

Build the wall and open the gates.

From: K Cummings
11-Jan-19
Let's look at what the Democrats are saying about a border wall.

1. It's immoral

2. It's a waste of tax payers dollars

3. It won't achieve the desired affect

4. It will require expensive maintenance in perpetuity

Assuming for a minute those are all accurate, for a Democrat what's not to like? That sounds pretty much like every other government project they ever come up with. You'd think they'd all be on board.

KPC

From: HedgeHunter
11-Jan-19
Been telling you Libs from giddy up. This is gonna put DJT 40 states up with big wall in 2020.

Anyone with a little common sense could see this coming with the Armies of occupation marching for out borders. POTUS saw this waited, waited , waited then jumped all over this.

Schumer, the guy is super intelligent (prolly the sharpest terd in the sestpool of Dems) thought "Trump has lost his mind claiming he will take hit for shutting down GVT and 800,000 fed do nothings".

Those two Dem rejects out now in full panic mode. This subject alone will push Pelosi outta Speakership. To bad we coulda used her until 2020 for GOP fund raising. Hate that.

Yeah, Acosta what a tool. Dumb a$$ had no clue what that film would look like at the other end. Bet he will get automatic pre-screening now on FNN or TDS-MBC. He went viral alright.

HH~

From: BowSniper
11-Jan-19
I'd love to see a good section of wall built to the latest Trump 30ft steel slat prototype (the one with that wide flat steel plate across the top face seems best). Put up 100 miles of it in the most heavily traffick'ed migrant invader section... and watch what happens.

I bet it proves to be effective, and they have no choice but to go around. Thus demonstrating the need for more wall. Mile by mile, we need to gain control of our borders. If pregnant women can get it, what would stop MS-13?

In the cost/benefit analysis - they are not counting the millions of illegals who jump the fence, have babies, who then are on the US dole legally and forever. And their kids. And kids of kids. And then as citizens they get to bring in relatives as sponsors via chain migration laws. And they have kids.

The problem is enormous in scale. And no one has the balls to deal with it once and for all. Except for Trump. But man... the swamp is dirty and it's creepy vines/tentacles touch everything. Even his own party (that loves to exploit cheap labor) is against him.

From: Woods Walker
11-Jan-19
KPC X2. That's so dead on it hurts!!!!!

From: BowSniper
11-Jan-19

BowSniper's Link
Another reason to build the first 100 miles of new Trump sized proto type is to get a real handle on costs. Even 25 billion seems waaaay too high. They are talking about 1150 miles that needs a fence badly. At 25 billion, that would be 1 billion per 46 miles. Or over $21 million per mile. That seems waaaay too expensive

See attached - Ohio 16ft concrete sound walls are averaging only 1.8 million per mile.

From: HedgeHunter
11-Jan-19
Cheap one time cost.

What the Dems really know!!!!!!!!!!!

You build wall sections: the trafficking there stops and moves to the end of wall section. This why the Acosta video is so damning to the Socialist One Worlderers. The Vid will be shown all thru this debate to his baine. I love that.

Love all the big brains out on CF who tout these Liberal fools as their hero's and leaders.

Have you any Common Sense a'tall?

HH~

From: Solo
11-Jan-19
I think $21M/mile is on the high side, too. Last I heard, brand new 4-lane highways average between $5M to $10M/mile w/out a wall.

Granted, they will likely be building a roadway on each side of the wall just for maintenance purposes, and I presume the wall foundation will be quite significant due to depth requirements & whatnot.

I'm sure the most recent AASHTO spec's will apply, which have become so stringent that a typical 50' traffic signal mast arm pole base has gone from 9' deep to +/- 40' deep, in certain cases, depending upon soil conditions.

One example: I've seen a new 34' deep pole base constructed next to a nearly identical existing pole with a mere 8' deep base, and that old pole stood there solid as a rock for 30-years. I wouldn't be surprised if the new AASHTO spec's add a Billion or more.

Then we gotta figure this project will be heavily scrutinized from every angle. Democrats will waste Billion$ just trying to prove that the Trump family is pocketing a dollar forty-five..... ;^)

From: HA/KS
11-Jan-19

HA/KS's Link
"CNN requests KUSI for local view on the border, declines our reporter after finding out wall works"

"We believe CNN declined a report from KUSI because we informed them that most Border Patrol Agents we have spoken to told us the barrier does in fact work.

We have continuously been told by Border Patrol Agents that the barrier along the Southern border helps prevent illegal entries, drugs, and weapons from entering the United States, and the numbers prove it."

From: elkmtngear
11-Jan-19
^^^ I read that this Morning, Henry. CNN was going to write a piece on the ineffectiveness of the barrier, and backed out and labelled the situation as a "non-story", because they didn't get the anti-Trump result they were looking for, from the locals.

From: TD
11-Jan-19
What is clear...... most dems oppose the wall PRECISELY because it will be effective. Face facts, that part of the debate is done, over. A wall properly done will be effective. Proven fact in real world cases and use, over and over.... all over the world. Undeniable.

The questions that need to be asked.... confronted..... WHY exactly do you want to continue the influx of illegal immigrants and the laundry list of compounding problems they bring? That is really the only unanswered question. And a question they should be forced to answer. With a camera in their faces..... on the record.

If it's just so Trump won't get credit for getting it done, working on doing what he promised..... then get them on record choosing to be vindictive and petty over American's security on video as well. But make them answer the questions. Stop the BS about how it will be "ineffective". That is a knowing lie. And used solely to deflect and avoid answering the real questions.

From: BowSniper
11-Jan-19
The other reason is that Dems believe they will eventually gain full citizenship for the million Daca kids, and the 10-20 million illegals already here, which means voters and eternal power to reshapenthe world in their euro socialist vision.

Not sure which they value more - power, or trump hate.

From: Trax
11-Jan-19
It's all about tainted America hating politics for the Democrat Party, they don't care at all about the country or we the people. Number one priority is to NOT give President Trump another win. The liberals are blocking not only the wall, but a whole host of other common sense border security measures. I've said it before, there is no dealing with America hating socialists. End the attempt.

Time to either use unappropriated funds or simply call it what it is , a security related crisis and build the much needed wall. The top border agent is calling for the immediate upgrade of present wall along with hundreds of miles of new wall, much of it where there presently is nothing or next to nothing. But NOW build that concrete wall, or better yet a double wall with concrete on the outside and metal on the inside with a patrol road in the middle. Enhance our electronic surveillance in every way and increase to the needed manpower. We can not be a nation unless we can control our own border.

From: HA/KS
11-Jan-19
"For every American who is killed by illegals, we should deport a politician who supports open borders."

From: DL
11-Jan-19
open CORRUPTION CHRONICLES

Migrants from Terrorist Nations Try to Enter U.S. Via Mexico at Record Rates—300% Hike in Bangladeshis in Texas Alone

Federal agents along the southern border routinely encounter individuals from terrorist nations and the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) considers them one of the top threats to the United States, according to a congressional report made public this month. Titled “Stopping Terrorist Travel Through Illicit Pathways to the Homeland,” the document outlines the findings of a lengthy investigation involving Special Interest Aliens (SIA) by the House Homeland Security Committee.

SIA’s are individuals from countries outside the western hemisphere—mostly the Middle East, Asia and Africa—that pose a national security risk to the U.S. In Laredo, Texas alone there was an astounding 300% increase in immigrants from Bangladesh, a south Asian Islamic country well known as a recruiting ground for terrorist groups such as ISIS and Al-Qaeda Indian Subcontinent (AQIS).

Congressional investigators found that the number of SIAs flowing north via Latin America has increased tremendously in the last few years thanks to established Transitional Criminal Organizations (TCO) that facilitate travel along drug and migrant smuggling routes. “On a recent Committee staff delegation trip to Latin America, Panamanian officials communicated to Committee staff that tens of thousands of SIAs have entered Panama since 2014,” the report states. “Colombian officials communicated similar numbers to Committee staff, stating that hundreds of SIAs have entered Colombia each year for the past few years. In both countries, nearly all the SIA migrants were headed to the United States and originated from the Middle East, Asia, and Africa—including Syria, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Somalia, Bangladesh, India, Eritrea, and many others. Additionally, encounters with these special interest individuals resulted in the seizure of tens of thousands of fraudulent documents—including passports and visas—that facilitated travel from their countries of origin through the Americas.”

The report includes several disturbing cases of Islamic terrorists who made it to the U.S. via Mexico. Among them are Mohammad Aldairi, a Jordanian arrested last summer in New York for illegally smuggling SIAs from Yemen across the U.S.-Mexico border into Texas.

Others include Pakistani Sharafat Ali Khan, convicted for smuggling fellow Pakistanis with terrorism ties into the U.S.; Somalian Abdullah Omar Fidse, a member of the al-Shabaab terrorist group; Somalian Ahmed Muhammed Dhakane, a member al-Qaeda linked al-Barakat and Al-Ittihad Al-Islami and Lebanese Mahmoud Yousef Kourani, a fighter, recruiter and fundraiser for Hezbollah.

Kourani paid a Beirut consular officer $3,000 for a Mexican visa and an additional $4,000 to be smuggled across the U.S.- Mexico border, according to information included in the report. Some of the other SIAs also operated smuggling rings through south and central America.

“Latin America and the Caribbean are the major initial entry points to the Western Hemisphere for SIAs,” the House Homeland Security Committee report states. “Many countries in the region continue to face economic and governance challenges, as well as consistently high levels of violent crime. Additionally, many of the countries in the Americas have lenient visa and immigration policies in place, even for individuals from ‘special interest’ countries.

Lastly, the frequency of international flights from ‘special interest’ regions around the world into Latin America and the Caribbean continues to increase. These regional issues create an attractive environment for illicit travel of SIAs and other nefarious actors into the Western Hemisphere with the end goal of reaching the United States.”

Adding to the problem is that Hezbollah is “growing at an alarming rate in Latin America,” according to Committee investigators. “Designated as a Foreign Terrorist Organization (FTO) by the State Department, Hezbollah has been operating in Latin America since the early 1990s when it worked with Iran to carry out the 1994 bombing of a Jewish Community Center in Argentina,” according to the report.

The House investigation found that, as of September 2018, a record 630 Bangladeshi nationals have been arrested trying to enter the U.S. illegally in Laredo, Texas alone. That marks a 300% increase from the previous year. “The routes facilitating the illicit travel of these Bangladeshis are mostly controlled by TCOs and drug cartels, which charge tens of thousands of dollars to smuggle SIAs and other migrants across the U.S.,” the committee writes.

It also confirms what Judicial Watch reported months ago, that the recent migrant caravan has included several SIAs and suspected terrorists. Judicial Watch traveled to the Guatemala-Honduras border back in October and government sources in Guatemala confirmed that SIAs waiting to get smuggled into the U.S. through Central America integrated with poor Hondurans in the caravan. Among them were nationals of Bangladesh, which appears on the Treasury Office of Foreign Asset Control’s Counter Terrorism Designations list

From: HA/KS
11-Jan-19

HA/KS's embedded Photo
HA/KS's embedded Photo
I think that we helped pay to build all four.

From: HedgeHunter
11-Jan-19
Dems will go hard now on “we need a tech and manpower heavy new border force”.

Drip drip drip

Sounds of dem voters sticking forks to blood let these new House and Socialist members.

HH~

11-Jan-19
HA, name one Dem politician that supports "open borders". and their words to support your assertion. There are no Dems that support open borders. None.

Just because we don't want a wall doesnt mean we condone open borders. the two are not mutually exclusive.

you can have border security without a wall.

From: JTV
11-Jan-19

JTV's Link
obviously PutZ, you havnt been listening to the experts on what is needed down there .... but, then again, when do you ever ...... again, you are out of your league on this subject ...

https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/illegal-immigration-democrats-open-borders/

From: JTV
11-Jan-19

JTV's Link
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/yes-the-democrats-are-for-open-borders/

From: JTV
11-Jan-19

JTV's Link
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/the-new-guard-of-the-democratic-party-absolutely-supports-open-borders

From: BowSniper
11-Jan-19
Putz - How do you have border security without a wall ?!?! 60,000 a month are being caught jumping the border. How many more make it without being caught, lets call it an even 100k total monthly for easy math?

So with drones and sensors, you know they are coming across. But it does NOTHING for catching them. And more importantly, for returning them from wherever they came.

Right now the Dems have it set up where they all claim asylum, we hold them in camps as long as allowed. And then drop them off by the busload in the US and hope they show up for court. HOW exactly does the Dem phrase "increase border security" fix any of that??!?

From: JTV
11-Jan-19
Hannity with the Angel Parents, those who had loved ones killed by illegals and the sanctuary city scum who get released ... see their feelings and what they think of Pelosi/Schumer holding this country hostage .... listen to these parents and then say a wall/barrier/border security isnt needed ....

From: Woods Walker
11-Jan-19

Woods Walker's embedded Photo
Woods Walker's embedded Photo

From: HA/KS
11-Jan-19

HA/KS's embedded Photo
HA/KS's embedded Photo

From: HedgeHunter
12-Jan-19
YFP

How would know of how a wall werks?

If you statements are true and wall don't work.

Why then did a concrete T-wall, Hesco Berms, wire surround every single FOB or COP in AFG or IRQ? if they did not work why in the _uck would we go thru all the ass pain to build them?

I lived in a real deal shithole for a 6 months. Got hit in this FOB every single day (I mean daylight day). They only thing that kept the terds and booger eaters out were 12ft T-walls. Wall stopped a shitpot of direct fire from raining in as well. Were not so good for Enemy Recoiless and Motors but it coaught them to. You know how many Terdburglers every got in? Zero.

So, you are without a doubt a dumbass. If any civilian in this country believes anything these Dems say on a wall you fall in same category.

Sorry just a dirt Soljah's eyeview of patrolling to many walls, barriers, obstacles on four continents over 25yrs. Experience Trumps speculator Bullshit sipped up in a Snowflake Rainbow Dixie cup.

HH~

From: JTV
12-Jan-19
Well, Putz says he was a photographer of the Jarhead Clan ... so he has that .... lol ....

From: elkmtngear
12-Jan-19

Using the Asset Forfeiture Funds (money seized from cartels and drug runners...4 to 5 Billion $ per year), and bonding them for continued use. One and done!

Why didn't the House step up, and bust this through, while they still had a majority? Zero chance they'll get a compromise using this tact, at this point!

From: JTV
12-Jan-19
at one point, it WAS passed by the House... it was the buttwipe McConnell who refused to use the Nuke option in the Senate to get it thru, the Senate is where it hung up at the end ... but they shouldnt have waited that long... incompetence by the House(Ryan) and Senate(McConnell) ... the dems wouldnt hesitate to use the Nuke option to step all over the Repubs when needed if they owned the Senate .... I despise McConnell, the only good he does is with the SCOTUS justices and other Judges.... there is so much more he could do ....

From: elkmtngear
12-Jan-19
Can't believe we needed the Nuclear option for something like that..."Never-Trumper" RINOS and Swamp Creatures have screwed the Conservative voting base again!

There's literally no valid argument against getting it done this way, and Mexican Cartels pay for the Wall. How is this not a win for their constituents???

From: JTV
12-Jan-19

JTV's Link
the hypocrisy within these Dems runs strong

https://www.westernjournal.com/pavlich-digs-video-democrat-saying-proposed-wall-bigger/

From: HA/KS
12-Jan-19
" RINOS and Swamp Creatures have screwed the Conservative voting base again!"

IN the case of senate rules, it took at least 8 democrats to vote with the republicans to get anything passed in the last congress.

The only time in recent memory that there was a filibuster-proof majority was the democrats in the first two years of obama.

From: HedgeHunter
12-Jan-19
The Sen rule of fillibuster in not costitutional any how.

Majority is enough!

Dump that crap.

HH

From: HA/KS
12-Jan-19

HA/KS's embedded Photo
HA/KS's embedded Photo
HH, it is constitutional. There is nothing in the constitution that tells the senate how to do business.

From: HedgeHunter
13-Jan-19
Says who, You. Its just a rule that's never been tested as to constitutionality. Old rule for old dudes to see who talk longer without pissing themselves is all. Then they even relaxed the rule further whereby they could extend the filibuster without podium occupation. Because they were being more civil .

Flush that terd. FilliTerd.

HH~

From: HA/KS
13-Jan-19
"Says who, You."

Where in the constitution does it address how the Senate does business? Until you find it and quote it to me, you are mistaken.

From: HedgeHunter
13-Jan-19
Never said it was in written in. Neither were the Bill of Rights as I recall.

I don't believe the rule is in the framework. Then early Senate had no 2/3rds BS or filibuster. Send it back to where it came from . . . the ether.

HH~

From: BowSniper
13-Jan-19
I just wish they would at least Filibuster during the god-damn filibuster. No one even does the hard work anymore. Sheesh! At least make those F'ers stay up all night and talk....

From: JTV
13-Jan-19
Yea, Mr. Smith goes to Washington style ....

From: HedgeHunter
13-Jan-19
Yeah, Really.

No dick canteens in suits anymore for fillibuster.

Just dump it. Dems and Rino’s just dont want to work for us folks. Rather just divide and us into little groups. Thats what Liberals started!

Why I always divide up what i see in the Liberal Mode. They do special intrests. I just do everyone. Dont blame me. Just took it from Socialist Liberal.

They are the literal Little Johnny Joke .politicians.

HH

13-Jan-19

Habitat for Wildlife's Link
Trial witnesses say drugs mainly NOT coming thru open areas. Reported by CNN.

Is this being reported elsewhere, some place credible?

From: JTV
13-Jan-19

JTV's Link
all you have to do is see/listen to the Hannity interview with the Border patrol agents and the supervisors... I trust what they say about the influx of drugs waaaay more than any CNN reporting .... hell, CNN just had their ass handed to 'em when they went looking for a local station to kiss their ass.... it didnt work, the locals told CNN to GPS !!

https://www.theblaze.com/news/tv-station-that-accused-cnn-of-refusing-to-air-positive-border-wall-story-does-not-back-down

From: JTV
13-Jan-19

JTV's Link
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/01/cnn_rejects_a_local_san_diego_report_on_border_wall_because_it_doesnt_support_its_narrative.html

From: Grey Ghost
13-Jan-19
"Is this being reported elsewhere, some place credible?

Frank, we discussed that another "wall" thread just a few days ago. I cited a NPR interview with a former USCG Commandant who claimed the same thing.

Matt

From: HedgeHunter
13-Jan-19
Hannity

One of the only guys to nail Obummer for what he was as Cherry Sen.

Guy has been right and out front so much DJT should make him US AG.

HH

From: elkmtngear
13-Jan-19
Funny, former Obama appointed Border Chief Mark Morgan, has come forward, stating that Trump is spot on...and he was basically fired by Trump when he was elected! Said he feels it's his duty as an American Patriot, to come forward.

13-Jan-19
this is not about Democrat vs. Republican. To summarize, this is the executive branch of our government threatening to declare a national emergency since the legislative branch will not authorize the seizure of private American property for a federal works project nor will they fund it.

The executive branch has already shut down the federal government. It is currently threatening to extend this government shut down for however long it takes for the legislative branch to cave.

Let us break this down.

First of all, the framework of our government is based on checks and balances. Power is divided into three branches: the Executive, the Legislative, and the Judicial. The Legislative branch controls the purse strings of government and creates laws. The Executive branch carries out those laws. The Judicial branch tells us whether the laws are constitutional or not. Each branch was designed to be able to balance the other branches

In this case, the executive branch wants to: (1) take governmental and tax payer cash, (2) create its own law, (3) take away private property from American citizens (4) create its own federal works project.

At least three of these functions fall within the power/ responsibility of the legislative branch.

This is one of the most blatant power grabs by the executive branch in recent history.

Once that power is exercised, it is going to be difficult or impossible to regain any balance again. The executive branch was never meant to have that much power.

Is this constitutional? Very doubtful. Should all Americans be concerned? That is a question for you to answer yourself.

So, what is the problem here? If national emergencies can be declared by the executive branch for non-emergency purposes why would that branch ever let go of that power again?

the seizure of private property (known as “eminent domain”, a body of law which says the government cannot just take your home without due process).

The US/Mexican border is 1,933 miles long. It runs through 4 states (California, Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas). Only 33% of that land is actually owned or managed by the Federal Government.

A sizable percentage of that land is owned by the Indian nations. It is land preserved for those tribes by treaty and land given under treaty is not land owned by the United States. These tribes already have a lot of reasons to be angry at the Federal Government. This would be pouring additional gas on an open flame.

The other 64% of that land is privately owned.

How much land would have to be taken? The amount of land that the Federal Government would have to take would likely run 1,237 miles long to 12,371 miles deep (assuming a 1 to 10-mile DMZ from the border into the United States). Even if we could only take 100 to 500 ft of land in densely populated areas, that is a lot of private property that is going to be seized by the Federal government.

The land necessary for this project would also run through some highly populated areas in the US such as San Diego, Calexico, Nogales, El Paso, and Laredo. There will be a lot of Americans who are going to have their homes and businesses taken by the federal government. Which will also mean a lot of lawsuits.

In terms of the federal works project, these types of works include hospitals, bridges, highways, walls and dams. These projects may be funded by local, state, or federal appropriations. If they are federal, they are funded by the legislative branch of our government (the same branch that our executive branch is currently trying to take power from). Is the seizure of power constitutional? Not likely given the separation of powers discussed above.

Finally, these considerations do not take into account the sheer cost, human and monetary, that will be involved.

The Department of Homeland Security estimates the current cost at $21 billion for construction alone (not counting costs of maintenance or costs associated with increased military/federal patrolling).

Ask yourself a simple question. When was the last time that you saw a governmental project brought in under time and under budget?

Does anyone remember the “big dig” in Boston, Mass? The actual costs are likely to be much higher. This estimated cost also does not include compensating folks for taking their land or the associated impact upon their businesses.

The Federal budget deficit grew to $779 billion dollars in 2018 according to the Treasury Department. How are we, as a country, going to fund this project? How are we, as a country, going to deal with the additional debt? Unlike private businesses, our country cannot declare bankruptcy.

think about it.

13-Jan-19
The Demons will never do anything they say if Trump gives in. They bonded Reagan on the same issue among others. They agree to all kinds of things if only we do what they want now and never deliver.

Trump is just not that stupid. Why should he trust the Demons when they are proven traitorous felonious liars!?

From: elkmtngear
13-Jan-19
"How are we, as a country, going to deal with the additional debt? Unlike private businesses, our country cannot declare bankruptcy".

I guess Obama didn't think about that, when he QUADRUPLED the National Debt back in 2009.

The Wall funding would cost each American about 17 dollars. "Medicare For All" on the other hand, would cost each American about $9,000 dollars.

Tell me again about our debt problem...when your Dem heroes are throwing out proposals that would bankrupt this Country in a matter of seconds!

13-Jan-19
Matt,

I remember you posting that. Acosta was recognized by conservatives when they thought he agreed with Trump's position. Now CNN reports on what was said by trial witnesses and we have a different view of CNN.

I support the wall just because of the people coming over illegally, and I think that problem is only going to grow as the economies south of us deteriorate further.

I agree with you on the drugs, it is a secondary issue. IMHO different strategies/resources than a wall will be needed if we want to stop most of the drug problem coming from the south, but the wall is needed to prevent illegal human traffic.

From: HedgeHunter
13-Jan-19
Great big tall wall. Towers and a 30m No Mans Land. Keeping em out Of America Greatly.

HH

13-Jan-19
HH How would you build a wall in Texas when 90% of the land is privately owned?

Texas Ranchers dont want the wall in TX , it would block the access to the Rio Grande and water for livestock ( and, duh, you cant build it on the Mexico side of the river)

And everybody in Texas knows this, and that's why the Congressional reps from border towns don't support the wall scam - they know it will never be built. There are already dozens of eminent domain cases in court, and they will tie it up for years.

From: Grey Ghost
13-Jan-19
Frank,

Agreed. Don't make 'the wall' about something it isn't.

Matt

13-Jan-19
Paul,

Simple, if they can do it on a TV show, we can do it for real. Just like 'Yellowstone', re-direct the river;-)

From: HedgeHunter
13-Jan-19
Dig deep wells for the ranchers. Easy Peasy

We put em in every Bn sized FOB in the War on Terror.

How ya think we got fresh water? Drank it out a camel hoof print?

Pay em for the wall. Just like the power company pay you went they put K500’s across yer land.

You a hash taco slinger or an American?

Were going to Mars. You think we’re to believe you and we cant get this done.

Pull yer head out yer 4th point of contact!

HH

From: Woods Walker
13-Jan-19
You know, if you think about the whole situation, the wall's (which I am all for, but I think it'd be more effective as a minefield or an electric fence like was in Jurassic Park) effectiveness is going to be reduced somewhat as long as they permit sanctuary states/cities in America. Imagine spending 10K+ for a fence/wall around your house, plus a reinforced triple locking front door to keep home invaders out, but then not doing anything to them and letting them remain in your home if they do break in and can get to the living room without being caught. I don't see much difference between this ridiculous scenario and what's going on now.

From: HA/KS
13-Jan-19
I have the solution!

Put people at the border to give every illegal border crosser an "assault rifle."

Dems will immediately demand background checks on every one of them.

From: slade
14-Jan-19
Feds Seize Enough Fentanyl in 2018 to Kill Nearly Twice the U.S. Population

Federal immigration officials seized enough fentanyl — one of the deadliest drugs in the world — last year to kill nearly twice the entire population of the United States.

The Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s (ICE) Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) unit revealed in a year-end report that in total, about 2,737 pounds of fentanyl were seized in Fiscal Year 2018....

From: slade
14-Jan-19
One ounce can kill 12,500 Americans...................................................

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