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What Does Illegal Immagration Cost
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Contributors to this thread:
DL 10-Jan-19
JTV 10-Jan-19
JTV 10-Jan-19
JTV 10-Jan-19
JTV 10-Jan-19
JTV 10-Jan-19
Your fav poster 10-Jan-19
JTV 10-Jan-19
JTV 10-Jan-19
ben h 10-Jan-19
slade 10-Jan-19
bad karma 10-Jan-19
DL 10-Jan-19
HDE 10-Jan-19
DL 11-Jan-19
JTV 11-Jan-19
ben h 11-Jan-19
HedgeHunter 11-Jan-19
Rocky 11-Jan-19
South Farm 11-Jan-19
HedgeHunter 11-Jan-19
Grey Ghost 11-Jan-19
BowSniper 11-Jan-19
BowSniper 11-Jan-19
BowSniper 11-Jan-19
slade 11-Jan-19
JTV 11-Jan-19
BowSniper 11-Jan-19
Woods Walker 11-Jan-19
Grey Ghost 11-Jan-19
BowSniper 11-Jan-19
bigeasygator 11-Jan-19
Grey Ghost 11-Jan-19
BowSniper 11-Jan-19
South Farm 11-Jan-19
kentuckbowhnter 11-Jan-19
bigeasygator 11-Jan-19
MT in MO 11-Jan-19
Woods Walker 11-Jan-19
ben h 11-Jan-19
Woods Walker 11-Jan-19
TT-Pi 11-Jan-19
gflight 12-Jan-19
gflight 12-Jan-19
Your fav poster 14-Jan-19
JTV 14-Jan-19
JTV 14-Jan-19
HA/KS 14-Jan-19
BowSniper 14-Jan-19
Annony Mouse 14-Jan-19
ben h 14-Jan-19
From: DL
10-Jan-19

DL's Link
You can just skip the add to watch. All we ever hear is they pay taxes.

From: JTV
10-Jan-19
Illegals cost the lives of American citizens and is a huge strain on law enforcement and their budgets and the medical/health care fields, not to mention all the govt. programs they leech from ...

From: JTV
10-Jan-19

JTV's Link
another way of looking at the cost of each illegal ..

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/border-surge-highest-since-2011-each-illegal-immigrant-costs-70-000-7x-deportation-price

From: JTV
10-Jan-19

JTV's Link
https://cis.org/Report/Cost-Border-Wall-vs-Cost-Illegal-Immigration

a small portion of this report... well worth reading the whole report... it may open some eyes .... then again, maybe not ......

among the findings:

There is agreement among researchers that illegal immigrants overwhelmingly have modest levels of education — most have not completed high school or have only a high school education. There is also agreement that immigrants who come to America with modest levels of education create significantly more in costs for government than they pay in taxes. A recent NAS study estimated the lifetime fiscal impact (taxes paid minus services used) of immigrants by education. Averaging the cost estimates from that study and combining them with the education levels of illegal border-crossers shows a net fiscal drain of $74,722 per illegal crosser.2 The above figures are only for the original illegal immigrants and do not include any costs for their U.S.-born descendants. If we use the NAS projections that include the descendants, the fiscal drain for border-crossers grows to $94,391 each. If a border wall prevented 160,000 to 200,000 illegal crossings (excluding descendants) in the next 10 years it would be enough to pay for the estimated $12 to $15 billion costs of the wall. Newly released research by the Institute for Defense Analyses (IDA) done for the Department of Homeland Security indicates that 170,000 illegal immigrants crossed the border successfully without going through a port of entry in 2015.3 While a significant decline in crossings from a decade ago, it still means that there may be 1.7 million successful crossings in the next decade. If a wall stopped just 9 to 12 percent of these crossings it would pay for itself. If a wall stopped half of those expected to successfully enter illegally without going through a port of entry at the southern border over the next 10 years, it would save taxpayers nearly $64 billion — several times the wall's cost.

From: JTV
10-Jan-19

JTV's Link
as the saying goes.... " YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH" ...... the taxes supposedly paid by 'illegals' no way offset the burden they are to the country and our economy ..

https://fairus.org/issue/publications-resources/fiscal-burden-illegal-immigration-united-states-taxpayers

From: JTV
10-Jan-19

JTV's Link
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/the-mainstream-media-doesnt-want-you-to-know-the-facts-about-border-security

10-Jan-19

Your fav poster's Link
Aw Jeffrey. This is gonna sting a bit. So brace yourself.

The CBO has concluded that in the long run illegal immigrants pay more taxes than services rendered.

From: JTV
10-Jan-19

JTV's embedded Photo
JTV's embedded Photo

From: JTV
10-Jan-19

JTV's embedded Photo
JTV's embedded Photo

From: ben h
10-Jan-19
I don't buy that CBO study at all. Despite what the title says, it includes all immigrants and it doesn't include health care costs and other things like incarceration or border control costs. I have a friend who's a landscaper and we were talking about this today. He has around 15-20 illegal workers and they all have a handful of anchor babies, none of them even paid for the hospital bill and there's no way to collect on that expense so it gets passed to citizens (not exactly a tax, but I'll include it anyway because I'm forced to pay for it, but it doesn't go directly to the gov). The kids are then citizens and then not included as a cost and we pay for that too and they do get welfare somehow because I've seen them use EBT cards, so I call BS they don't get that. They make around $15-22/hr, which isn't bad for the work, but the taxes on that with 4-5 dependents isn't all that much (my federal taxes are more than their entire wage).

I have a friend who lives in a SH%t hole neighborhood which is primarily Hispanic and very few of them appear to work (regularly) and despite this their garbage cans look like its Christmas every week with big screen, new appliance boxes, etc and with new trucks in the driveway.

I don't believe any study that says low wage earners of any kind, legal or not bolster our tax base.

In light of this, I still think "the Wall" is not the best use of resources to combat the problem right now. I think it's a good idea to build it, I just would do other things 1st. I asked my landscaper friend how all his illegals got here and he said 100% of them were from overstaying visas. Sure some do cross the border, but I don't think it's the bulk of the problem. Likewise drugs certainly cross on people coming across, but the VAST majority are just smuggled in through other freight by traditional means and are undetected.

From: slade
10-Jan-19

slade's Link
Half the 600,000 residents aided by NYC Care are undocumented immigrants

From: bad karma
10-Jan-19
CBO evaluations are based upon the given conditions provided to them by Congress. That's the same outfit that scored Obamacare by counting the years where the taxes came in but no money went for health care, to make the numbers look better. It is not an unbiased source of information and should be discounted, if not completely ignored. Like some who post here only to demonstrate their unbounded ignorance.

From: DL
10-Jan-19
It’s also a strain on our resources in California. Water is getting stretched to its limits here. This democrat run state is willing to spend Billions on a stupid Crazy Train when what we need is reclaimed water or desalinization. Thousands of acres of orchards have been reduced to wood chips because of water restrictions. Of course they will wait until there is a horrible crisis and then charge us another tax. 100,000s more every year. Dumping trash all over dumping drain oil into storm drains. This isn’t Mexico.

From: HDE
10-Jan-19
The CBO is wrong. The immigrants first have to have high enough paying jobs in order to pay more in taxes than services rendered.

Next...

From: DL
11-Jan-19
Most work for cash. Go to any HD, Lowe’s etc. every morning they are out their waiting to work. Some come up when they see you come out. Dent in your car and they are after you. Thousands of landscaping company’s and most can’t speak English. If they are illegal most don’t trust working for a business where they take out taxes. Just another way of tracing them. Had a guy wanting to rent our home that had a phony SS card as well as all kinds of other phony information on the application. He was middle eastern. He drove over but didn’t have a drivers license just a state ID. He did have a hand gun permit. Go figure. Notified my sons friend that worked for the FBI here in SoCal. This was right after the San Bernardino terrorist shooting. He said Obama’s DOJ said hands off these cases.

From: JTV
11-Jan-19

JTV's Link
https://www.westernjournal.com/ct/msnbc-2019-no-border-crisis-msnbc-2017-one-serious-crisis-america-drugs-smuggled-border/

From: ben h
11-Jan-19

ben h's Link
JTV, I don't disagree that the drugs are smuggled across the border, I just think that it's a relatively small amount that are that carried in manually with people vs shipped or driven in due to the volume, so the wall or "semi wall" currently proposed will have a minimal effect on that.

Here's an excerpt from a 2017 DEA report saying just that:

Drug Smuggling and Transportation Methods: Mexican TCOs transport the majority of illicit drugs into the United States across the SWB using a wide array of smuggling techniques. The most common method employed by these TCOs involves transporting illicit drugs through U.S. ports of entry (POEs) in passenger vehicles with concealed compartments or commingled with legitimate goods on tractor trailers. Additionally, Mexican TCOs transport illicit drugs, such as methamphetamine and cocaine, dissolved in liquid solutions, across the SWB. Once across the border, Mexican TCOs coordinate for illicit drug shipments to be divided into smaller shipments and sent to distribution points throughout the United States.

See link for the full report; I didn't read it entirely.

From: HedgeHunter
11-Jan-19
CBO is GVT

Them terds are never correct. Why the dems use em so much.

Medicaid outlays for illegals is one of the largest expenditures. They all go to E Room for care.

So, little Mamma goes in labor and heads to the E room at your local hospital. She cant have the baby normal or whimps out. She gets a C section. She just ate up 30-50k in Medicaid end costs at Hospital and you paid for it. This is just for ONE illegal to had a kid in USA.

So, they're hear illegal, only paying user excsise taxes, we pay for a now legal baby then we float the whole Taco cuz now the family qualifys for benefits.

Are we as taxpayers Fin dumb or what.

HH~

From: Rocky
11-Jan-19
First things firsts. Don't believe ANY report, study or confiscation numbers. They are either increased or decreased to set their own self serving interest or political association.

The POE confiscations will never be reported to their actual values. The percentages confiscated are withheld and moved forward to fill in a future low percentage that may arise which then suppresses the graph to basically mimic a flat line to arrive ata taer over year average. Drugs that go undetected obviously do not impact this chart.

Drugs that enter illegally through the sieve of the border dwarfs the POE because the sheer volume of a single successful penetration dwarfs the confiscated product that are captured at the border. You don't believe and think the the criminals minds know mathematics? The loss at the POE is considered collateral damage and is a offering as in sacrifice for the better good. They KNOW the percentages of failure going POE. The Cartels are incredibly witty, wise, technologically proficient and a high polished adversary. These are not your run of the mill drug dealers. They know business and the bottom line as in all CEO'S is all that matters.

The Rock

From: South Farm
11-Jan-19
Illegal immigration has divided our country irreparably. To me that's probably the biggest cost.

From: HedgeHunter
11-Jan-19
Build it up and we will fix the rest. Lets get these folks paying income taxes. These folks working on -10's sure are not paying it as I see it. Maybe they do somehow but a farmer here who employs thwem would have to explain how the feds get taxes outta a seasonal non citizen?

HH~

From: Grey Ghost
11-Jan-19
I recently heard a former Coast Guard Commandant claim the average drug confiscation at our land border is measured in pounds. The average amounts confiscated coming by way of water is measured in TONS.

Matt

From: BowSniper
11-Jan-19
Which would matter of the Dems were proposing a plan that would stop drug trafficking by sea.

But no plan. Just obstruct and resist the GOP plan. And send taxpayer money overseas to their pals in Palestine and Iran. Sheeesh.

From: BowSniper
11-Jan-19

BowSniper's Link
It IS coming through the Mexican border. Captured shipments in vehicles happens all the time. Here is a big one in Nov'18. Do you think the tunnels they dig are for fun? Are the cartel funded coyotes sneaking people across empty handed, just because they want to give children a better life. El'chopo Altruistico? C'Mon now.

Remember, the drug shipments captured at sea or at vehicle searches at the Mexican border are what we CATCH. Our forces are tied up chasing migrants around the desert at 60,000 a month. How many more get through? You don't think the cartel exploits this to smuggle drugs across??

THINK for yourself. Turn off CNN/MSNBC

From: BowSniper
11-Jan-19

BowSniper's Link
Here.

Interactive map from border patrol showing seizures, locations, and type. Millions of pounds, so yeah... some would call that 'tons'. Stop this fake 'manufactured crisis' at the border talk and this misdirection to the sea (with no plan for that either)

From: slade
11-Jan-19
Typical bowlib. It's just a pound of fentanyl , nothing to see move along.

From: JTV
11-Jan-19
so, the wall/barrier deniers are fine with letting the crap come thru the southern border, I mean, it is so small an amount ..... smh .....

From: BowSniper
11-Jan-19

BowSniper's embedded Photo
BowSniper's embedded Photo
Read the CBP report. This for example....

GG - that coast Guard guy downplaying concerns about the Mexican border. What TV channel were you watching at the time?? Honestly....

From: Woods Walker
11-Jan-19

Woods Walker's Link
What missing in this equation is the cost of the children who start school without a grasp of English, and their continued under performing educational results. I guess if you're looking for people to mow grass, clean toilets and vote Democrat it's no big deal.

The link here is from a study on this subject by the NEA of all organizations! And all the solutions they propose will cost even MORE.

Fact is, we've never had an immigrant group this large composed of people who won't/can't learn the language of the nation that THEY CHOSE to migrate to! In some ways you can't blame them because they are also the only immigrant group that is being enabled to NOT learn our language. Stores that have bilingual signs, VOTING MATERIALS(!!!!!!!!) and other government documents in Spanish, and other catering to their inadequacies only promote and encourage this.

"You're as lazy as you can afford to be."

A few weeks ago I was driving through a town here, Carpentersville, on the east side, which is predominantly latino. I went past a PUBLIC elementary school which had a sign in front with a message on it about the Christmas Holiday that was in SPANISH ONLY!!!!! And people wonder why they can'/won't speak English!

From: Grey Ghost
11-Jan-19
Bowsniper,

It was NPR radio where I heard the Coast Guard Commandant interview. And, yeah, I considered the platform he spoke from, but I also considered who he was, his experiences and knowledge that surely goes beyond any of ours here, and how he presented the info. He was very believable to me, and clearly didn't show any political bias in his comments. In fact, he was respectful towards Trump, as I would expect from any former Commandant, but not so much towards our federal government as a whole.

His basic point was, if drug flow is a primary concern, then we should focus our attention on the gusher first, not the trickle. He made a lot of sense to me. I wish I could find a copy of the interview for the rest of you to comment on, but I haven't so far.

Matt

From: BowSniper
11-Jan-19
Matt - read through what I posted from border patrol statistics. The sea is where the occasional big multi-ton shipments are captured. But STILL the steady relentless million drips across the southern border add up to MORE in total than what comes in by sea. Period.

So if you a really concerned about a shit-ton of illegal drugs coming into the country and killing our children (not just to be contrarian about all things Trump) then either get on board with a wall to fix one problem, or create a solution to the other problem by sea.

Because we have to start actually solving problems. And not just point at the "other" one.

From: bigeasygator
11-Jan-19

bigeasygator's Link
BowSniper,

What border patrol report are you referencing? I don’t see it in any of the links.

Looking at the interactive map you posted (which ends in 2005), I don’t see numbers anywhere close to what was interdicted and seized at sea. 2015 shows that CBP seizes 11,000 pounds of cocaine across our borders (land and sea). Compare that with the 500,000 pounds of cocaine seized by the Coast Guard in each of the last two years (see attached link) and I think Matt has a pretty valid point.

From: Grey Ghost
11-Jan-19
BEG,

The Coast Guard Commandant I mentioned talked about the whole "push out our borders strategy" too, and how effective it could be if they had more resources. Cut the head off the snake....

Matt

From: BowSniper
11-Jan-19
BEG , it was the interactive link, which states figures from CBP.gov in footnote. The screenshot posted above from that article addresses the total drugs seized land vs sea. Not just one certain type of drug vs another.

Too many drugs come across the southern border. Millions of pounds. Along with weapons, gang members, disease, and literally millions of illegal migrants. We can almost stop it entirely with a serious wall.

If there is some other danger/problem of similar scope that you can fix with just 25b, I am all ears.

From: South Farm
11-Jan-19
So, if NO DRUGS at all were coming across the border then illegal immigration would be "ok", is that the point somebody's trying to make??

11-Jan-19
illegals have cost thousands of American lives and the cost of that is immeasurable.

From: bigeasygator
11-Jan-19
”Too many drugs come across the southern border. Millions of pounds.”

If every state would just legalize marijuana then it won’t be millions of pounds coming across the southern border.

In 2015 of the 1.55 million pounds of drugs seized at the southern border, 1.53 million of it was marijuana.

Guess it’s the Libertarian in me coming out, but I just don’t feel like we need to fight an expensive war on marijuana.

From: MT in MO
11-Jan-19
Actually, if one looks at what is happening in Colorado for instance, the black market for marijuana has actually grown. Why? Because it is cheaper on the black market than in the gov't controlled stores...So legalizing is not the panacea some would have you believe...

From: Woods Walker
11-Jan-19
"So, if NO DRUGS at all were coming across the border then illegal immigration would be "ok", is that the point somebody's trying to make??"

X2!

IMO the drugs are ONE of the issues. Even if the drugs were no issue at all we STILL need to secure our border and not let this country be inhabited by people with no regard for our laws. That's national suicide.

From: ben h
11-Jan-19
Some fraction of drugs and illegals physically enter our country by "making a run for the border" and come in that way. Most come in through traditional means by boat, car, bus, plane or even walk through. The drugs are smuggled and the people legally enter through the "front door" with a temporary work visa. When their temporary visa is expired, they just don't leave and go get another job. I'm for a wall, but it doesn't address the bulk of the problem in my opinion and a partial wall will do even less.

From: Woods Walker
11-Jan-19
What we really need to do is eliminate sanctuary cities/states. These in and of themselves negate all other types of immigration laws. It's like saying that we have a law that prohibits someone from illegally breaking into your home, but if they do and can make it to the bathroom then they're fine and cannot be arrested. WTF???? Does anyone REALLY think that illegal ANYTHING will stop when you continue to reward the people who commit the very act that is supposed to be illegal? We have some REAL f***ing MORONS running this country!!!!

From: TT-Pi
11-Jan-19
The making of a Secure border is step one. Wall and all. Then there will be a roundup of those who should not be here. ( to be defined and negotiated) Out they go and now they can't return any other way but through the gate. That's the control part.

We need to make it clear that overstaying will not be tolerated. A second offense is permanent. Fist offense is a fine.

Maybe that is why some are against the wall. Because it is one solid measure in a series of steps, to stop the economic drain on our country.

From: gflight
12-Jan-19

gflight's Link
Great attack on illegals from Trump's girl....

From: gflight
12-Jan-19

gflight's Link

14-Jan-19
Don’t tell anyone that these things exist. Shush

From: JTV
14-Jan-19

JTV's embedded Photo
I am PutZ, and blowing another out my dupa ....
JTV's embedded Photo
I am PutZ, and blowing another out my dupa ....
it figures PutZ would be encouraging Illegal entry into the US ... what a maroon ....

From: JTV
14-Jan-19

JTV's embedded Photo
Paul Zeidan, I am ready for you
JTV's embedded Photo
Paul Zeidan, I am ready for you

From: HA/KS
14-Jan-19
"Pelosi said we needed to pass Obamacare first to know what was in it; I say we build the wall to see if it works"

From: BowSniper
14-Jan-19
Those Mexicans are noisy waiting to get in. We need a sound wall built. Government does it all the time without any special permission.

From: Annony Mouse
14-Jan-19

From: ben h
14-Jan-19
Mouse, pretty good video, I agree with a lot of it, not all of it but the majority of it.

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