Contributors to this thread:
Vaccines and autism
Since you are interested in the topic Spike, you might want to read these: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/autism.html
I don’t know what is causing all deadly allergies and Austin’s. in this country anymore. Forget using nukes on this country. A jar of skippy would clean out a lot more. I have a feeling all the hand sanitizer lathered over everything isn’t helping. I wish there was a study done on the instances of Autism and food allergy’s on farm kids. When our kids were tiny we were told to not work about them crawling around on a “dirty” floor. It would help build their immune system. I believe we as a country are sanitizing our kids to death. My generation and kids generations never heard of nut allergies here in California.
Deleted due to unpopularity with people I respect.
Uhhhhh. No. Not really. Happy as a lark and healthy as an ox. No broad brushes please. I my get offended.
That's an uncharacteristically low rent comment, HA. And, in my experience, the "anti-vaccers" are most likely home schooling Christian types. Good people.
Appreciate that Henry. A close friend, well educated and Republican has not fully discounted the rumored link between immunization and autism. In the midst of dealing with it, people look for answers.
Autism is very difficult. It has impacted family, friends, and both my wife and I have worked with children at school.
There is zero evidence of vaccine causing it. There is ample evidence that vaccines have saved the lives of millions.
Scientific willful ignorance frustrates me. Scientific discussion based on research is good.
Unfortunately, many are unable to discriminate between astronomy and astrology in discussions of this type.
Owl: Fyi, my kids were home schooled (Christian). And yes, there is a contingency that does not follow evidence based medical practices. But most of the people we home schooled with do vaccinate and believe in science. It sounds like you know some homeschoolers that are anti-vaccine? In addition to the group you mention you will find a group with similar anti-vaccine views in the liberal (big money) Hollywood hills. The world is a big place and one often finds strange bedfellows if you look closely enough, especially when talking about groups with extreme views. And yes, I am insinuating that anti-vaccination (for fear of autism) is fear based and extreme. It's the kind of nonesense that gets children killed by flu and many other diseases each year.
I remember reading an article on the possible causes of the increase in autism, I can’t remember what they thought could be at the top of the list, but I remember it seemed to make a lot of sense. It might have been something like certain preservatives that pregnant women eat. It was definitely something during the pregnancy,
Everyone can have a set of beliefs... I'm fine with that and recognize we all come from experiences which form us. Which makes me really frustrated when folks go down the AntiVax wormhole. Along with antibiotics, they are probably in the top 2 or 3 most life saving advances in medical science in the history of man. Sometimes folks have allergic reactions and that is a challenge - with all meds.
Add in the number of people who have been saved via OTHER people getting vaccinated. Know a cancer patient? Know a diabetic? Know a person with an organ transplant or auto immune disorder like Rheumatoid Arthritis? If you do, the fact that they are alive is solidly helped by OTHER people vaccinating.
Heck, I'd be more inclined to say we should pay for the wall if part of the 5.7B was going to fund mandatory Vax for EVERY person entering - that would likely save lives of many of those folks, and AMERICAN lives like those noted above.
Normally Meme's suck, but I saw a great one on this. It basically said if you dont want vax's, then please dont take that insulin/epi pen/antibiotic/ibuprofen/asprin/chemo/anticoagulant etc etc etc.
As meme's are designed, it overstates something and misses all of the nuance vital to understand big subjects... But the whack in the forehead is a good one.
HA - "Unfortunately, many are unable to discriminate between astronomy and astrology in discussions of this type."
Which one is the real one? I always get confused...
Phil - BS in astronomy, 1988.
And, I agree 100% with you. A lot of conspiracy theories are harmless but this one, if followed, harms/kills the children affected and has general public health implications (if diseases that were eradicated here get a foothold because of unimunized kids - see measles, whooping cough as examples).
How many that went through boot camp and got their shot with multiple vaccines in them. The only side effect was the shoulder was sore but the DI got that worked out very fast. Would like to see a genetic test what the gene link is to Autism and why some families have several of their children inflicted with it. There is one family in my area that has 3 kids with it, has to be a genetic factor that cause this.
Multiple children same family may or may not be genetic. It can also be environmental, specific to that home or habits. Science is still looking, I don't believe there is a consensus yet.
Bownarrow, I'm not casting aspersions, just offering a counterpoint to HA's rude stereotyping. BTW, the folks I know that are suspicious of vaccines are, by no means, "anti-science." Rather the contrary.
I agree with HfW - there is no satisfactory consensus for me. That stated, commonsense tells us no pharmaceutical is 100%. There are always side effects (often serious). So, while I believe vaccines have saved countless lives, it would not surprise me if they damaged a relatively small minority of kids.
The fact that there is zero mathematical correlation between vaccination and autism seems pretty factual to me.
Hand clap and back pat for HA's last post.
If someone is nervous of the dosing volume, they can always ask the provider to spread the shots out and do them over a slightly longer period of time - not needed, but if it makes someone feel better it's doable.
I am an advocate of mandatory vaccination in order to attend public school.
It's not in any of the childhood vaccines besides some flu shots. And that link has been thoroughly disproved in multiple countries.
child with preventable whooping cough.
There is more correlation between the decline in spanking and the increase in autism than with any form of vaccination.
There is more correlation between the increased use of birth control pills and the increase in autism than between autism and any form of vaccination.
There is more correlation between the increase of single parent households and autism than between any form of vaccination and autism.
The debate should continue, but unless it is based on actual science, it is only harming people.
What science did you use when you correlated that I contribute to alcoholism and domestic violence by giving to the homeless? Oops, sorry guys, wrong thread :)
Lack of vaccinations (e.g. measles, Rubella) can be multi-generational if you develop the disease.
From CDC: Congenital Rubella Syndrome (CRS)
Congenital rubella syndrome (CRS) is a condition that occurs in a developing baby in the womb whose mother is infected with the rubella virus. Pregnant women who contract rubella are at risk for miscarriage or stillbirth, and their developing babies are at risk for severe birth defects with devastating, lifelong consequences. CRS can affect almost everything in the developing baby’s body.
The most common birth defects from CRS can include: •Deafness •Cataracts •Heart defects •Intellectual disabilities •Liver and spleen damage •Low birth weight •Skin rash at birth
Less common complications from CRS can include: •Glaucoma •Brain damage [ um can you say Autism, Parkinson's or similar brain issues??] •Thyroid and other hormone problems •Inflammation of the lungs
Although specific symptoms can be treated, there is no cure for CRS. Since there is no cure, it is important for women to get vaccinated before they get pregnant.
Supposedly the disease was knocked out in the USA about 2004. Current cases are from un-vaccinated people who travel and/or bring it into the US from elsewhere..
I've done CPR on and had children (multiple) die in my hands from vaccine preventable infections.
CRS can affect almost everything in the developing baby’s body. Yep that includes heart brain, lungs, important stuff like that.
Yet I still have to argue with folks who have this weird fear of vaccination, mostly the new generation in their late 20s early 30s. Reasoning they can't grasp the millions of lives they have saved...because they haven't lived though it. I have friends who were polio victims who lived, some classmates in grade school who did not.
Saw this today on a friends Facebook feed and thought of this thread.
Just in case I have another kid, I'm going to drink a table spoon of roundup daily and aim for only foreign produce to minimize autism risk... (clearly, being hyper sarcastic and kidding).
Great find Will. One thing that should make any anti-vaxxer pause is the fact that vaccinations went on for decades before autism incidence really started to increase.
This forum is a train wreak.
There is currently a measles outbreak in WA/OR in an area where there are a lot of unvaccinated children. Now one family is quarantined in HI because they flew there with exposed children who then came down with measles.
Before MMR: 3000 measles deaths/yr from encephalitis/meningitis. The fear of these diseases has been erased from our collective societal conscious because they've been gone for so long. The heroes who developed these vaccines must be rolling in their graves, along with the mothers and fathers of the children who died from the diseases before the vaccines were developed.
I've heard the mourns of the parents who wept over their child's corpse who'd just died from a vaccine preventable death. I've done CPR on these kids in the ER more than once. It is maddening.
The organic food chart reminded me of a story. I know a gal who runs the crop dusting association in my state. She told me a story of a guy spraying Roundup who caught a wing tip and crashed, ending up almost upside down. He was fine but the cockpit filled up with Roundup from I believe a belly tank until he was almost completely submerged before he was able to get something open and get out.
It had been a decade or so since it happened and no bad effects yet. I guess he was pretty scared at the time about soaking in that stuff but no one had an answer as to what might happen if anything.
It wasn't really that long ago that about 1/3 of all children died long before reaching adulthood from things that are totally preventable today.
16 years ago, a doctor published a study. It was completely made up, and it made us all sicker.
In Australia, they recently discovered a connection between one of the vaccines and Type 1 Diabetes. Children who had received the vaccine appeared to have a lower rate of Type 1.
There is much to be learned about this but it might be the beginning of prevention of this terrible disease with a childhood vaccination.
HA, that's friggin radical man... Cool. So yeah, Ill leave the bumps on a log and you leave the measles, awesome man, right? :)
Hilarious (in a horrible sort of way)!
"Former anti-vaxxers now seek out measles vaccine after outbreak"
Good first hand account from a doctor.
Ground zero: Clark County is across the river from Portlandia, OR. This could get out of hand real quick.
I missed this at the time, but apparently the Russians have been behind spreading both the anti Vax and the anti GMO messages. They are probably also the ones keeping the Glyphosate opponents enraged.
My mother reminded me today how we almost lost my sister to measles back in the late 50s. Her daughter is one of the idiots who believes in the autism, vaccine correlation theory. Fortunately for her she isn't married or has kids yet....
By the way Mom is almost 95, saw her family survive the Great Depression, WWII, assassination of a president, the Cold war and now we have fight to stop Socialism, again. In her words, the politicians today have no common sense.
Tony's message reminded me that I worked with a guy who got polio in the mid 1960s. I never asked him why the family didn't get him vaccinated (vaccine started in 1961). He should go on a national tour touting the benefits of vaccination.
We are seeing diseases that have almost been eradicated until the anti-vaxers and open borders proREgressives have gained stay and promoted by the media.
Stop Medieval Diseases With a Medieval Wall
The media recently reported that Los Angeles County’s ongoing typhus epidemic had infected Deputy City Attorney Liz Greenwood.
"Who gets typhus? It's a medieval disease that's caused by trash,” she wondered.
Greenwood is partially correct. The typhus outbreak, like the hepatitis outbreak, was directly caused by social justice policies that legalized public vagrancy, and leaving trash and human waste on sidewalks. The piles of trash, human waste and people combine to create horrifying diseased conditions. Before Greenwood, many Los Angeles patients who had been diagnosed with typhus were indeed homeless.
"There are rats in City Hall and City Hall East," she complained. "There are enormous rats and their tails are as long as their bodies."
The rats are a problem, but the fleas that carry the disease that Greenwood has can live on a variety of animals, including stray cats and possums. That’s why the typhus outbreak isn’t just happening in Skid Row, but has spread to Long Beach and Pasadena. And while the homeless encampments act as incubators for the disease, it’s not the only social justice policy spreading disease across America.
Or at least in California and Texas.
continued at link
HA/KS- It seems like there is another famous person who spreads conspiracies about vaccines.
"In the United States, that anti-vaccine resurgence has been amplified by actors Jim Carrey and Jenny McCarthy -- who said they believed vaccines could have contributed to McCarthy's son's autism -- and high-profile celebrities such as then-real estate mogul and reality TV star, Donald Trump.
In 2012, Trump, weighed in on vaccines on Twitter, saying: "Massive combined inoculations to small children is the cause for big increase in autism...."
KS - when one doesn't believe in science... one must stay consistent :) (easy fellas, easy... just dropping a funny there)
IFL is not the most hardcore of scientific lit sites, it's definitely a pop science site, though often has neat info. This may not be the end all be all of the current Measles outbreak, but it's interesting to consider. https://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/measles-outbreak-traced-to-father-who-admits-not-vaccinating-kids-due-to-autism-concerns/