Just what is a Socialist ...
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Depends - there are varying degrees, and yes, some entrepreneurial capitalists have a hint of socialist in them...
To me a socialist is a person who grievously mistrusts his neighbor but somehow imbues an estranged corporate body of those very same people with enough virtue to fairly indenture all humans within its relative jurisdiction.
Someone who is lazy and figured out ways for others to support them.
Please note and quote where I said I was a socialist.
I believe we need socialized medicine and we already have forms of socialism in our country that you readily enjoy and take advantage of.
One more time for the people in the back. Healthcare should never be a for profit system. Not ever.
Nobody should profit on the suffering of others. On the needs of the sick and dying. That’s the very definition of evil.
So a dr should work for free?
The power company should Provide power to the hospital for free?
The contractor should build the hospital for free?
Oh...and we should take with a grain of salt ANYTHING Sybil says.....RIIIIGHT........
You want us to take you at your word? Really Sybil? Get some help....you need it.
Canada has universal healthcare and the residents have to travel far and wide for it and the doctors are paid so little it’s not worth all that schooling for them. Read about it. On the other hand the cost is so high I’m about all for it but then again that’s what they want!
If socialized medicine was so bad, why is it that the countries with the highest quality of life all have it? Why do the nations that have it never, ever try to repeal it? The people don't complain, and that myth about the lines and long waits? MYTHS and LIES.
by comparing health outcomes vs. costs in every other developed nation that has socialized medicine, vs. those in the US.
US outcomes: Worst by far. US costs: Twice the % GDP of socialized medicine countries.
Socialized medicine works way better than for-profit HC.
KC
if the school is free, of course the professors will be volunteers...it all works out
PUTZ....you are either stupid or unaware of reality. I lived for 65 years in far-up NNY and the number of Canadian lic. plates in the parking lot of local hospitals was amazing. Why? Immediate care for serious problems; especially cancer, was available. The plates are still there...especially at larger city hospitals. My son has a nasty snowmobile crash in Quebec...horrible care and he had insurance good in Canada. Mary Fletcher from Burlington, VT sent an ambulance and x-rays 5 hours later showed a broken back. Screw your social meds and the high taxes needed to support such.
"One more time for the people in the back. Healthcare should never be a for profit system. Not ever."
Do you know about the hospital readmissions program built into Obamacare?
The law instituted a Medicare payment penalty for hospitals with too many readmissions for pneumonia, heart failure, and heart attack.
It penalizes hospitals for readmitting patients within 30 days of a hospital stay. Readmissions dropped between 2.3 and 3.6 percentage points for the conditions targeted saving the Government money.
At the cost of about 5,400 lives annually...
Democrats healthcare kills the poor intentionally....
Socialism is equality for the masses. Equally stuck. Rich leaders Love the idea. Poor slobs love the idea. Everyone else pays for those two.
Tariffs and bailouts are socialist....
YFP said he was a 'proud progressive' and that is a socialism, just lip stick on a pig. Tariffs is a tax just like a fee, bailouts is capital cronyism used by both parties. Free market capitalism is let the successful profit and non-successful die on the vine None for profit health care, the innovation and advancement of new medical devices, procedures and Rx would die on the vine. Been involved for many years in the medical area when one makes a statement of free medicine is what I call is having a 'pipe dream'. As close to socialize medicine we have in this country is the VA and it takes profit medical suppliers to make it work or the good vets would be wearing clothe diapers.
Medicine and health should indeed be run for profit. That way, there is an incentive to fix problems, and innovate, and do a better job than the status quo. I have no problem with my eye surgeon making what he makes, as I now have perfect vision. And my meds permit me to climb mountains looking for elk, even with asthma. If there is no profit motive, medical technology will stagnate.
if you support socialist policies then you are a socialist.
And what has happened to the prices of free standing MRI clinics and LASIK surgery over the last two decades?
If you are really sick, would you want your care handled by a private HCO like the Mayo Clinic, or a VA hospital?
If you want the best medical care in the world, you have to rely on the best doctors. And they don't work for minimum wage.
Tell me again why people aren't busting into Canada or Valenzuela for a better life.
I’m old enough to remember when I paid Drs and hospitals out of my pocket and could afford it even when my wife and I had a combined income of $12,000.. I don’t agree with what Paul deals on here but I do have to say things have got out of hand. Just so all of you will know when it happened it was 1973.
“Nixon signed into law, the Health Maintenance Organization Act of 1973, in which medical insurance agencies, hospitals, clinics and even doctors, could begin functioning as for-profit business entities instead of the service organizations they were intended to be.”
Socialists are socialists right up until they run out of other peoples money. Then they become Communists.......
YFP, the only countries where socialized medicine has come even close to working have total populations about equal to that of New York City. Just because it sorta works for 6 million people in a whole country doesn't mean it'll work for 360 million people.
If hospitals were "non-profit" there would be no funds for research. In a socialized country the gov't is going to control the price of prescription medicines, and as a result, the drug manufacturers will have neither the motivation or the capital needed for the development and approval of new medicines.
You seem to have the idea that people are exceptionally altruistic. You think someone is going to become a Proctologist just out the goodness of their own heart? No, they do it because it pays an average of $350k per year.
There are two criteria for defining socialism. 1) When a government is providing non-public goods, and 2) centrally planning in order to do so. Central planning means the government has total control, and that is the true evil of socialism.
Socialists never debate the relative merits of their system with facts and logic. That's actually part of their system. Marx created something called polylogism. He said, and I'm not making this up, that there's more than one logic. That gave him an out when he was asked to defend his system. It gives socialists and out today. And it's why they appear to be so stupid (many of them actually are).
The ultimate end to any form of socialism is State Socialism, the very precursor to Communism. You hear demonrats today refer to themselves as 'The Democratic Socialist Party of America'. Oddly, that's what the Nazi's were for Germany...
The square wheel just dont work too well does it? Socialized meds, Social Security, works really well....until you run out of other people's money.
Well everyone. I have been lurking around here for a few yrs now and finally feel its time to chime in. The socialist crap, and mostly social medicine hit a nerve. These "myths and lies" up here in canada are actually facts and truth. Let me explain just one example of many. I have for the most part been fit and healthy to this day. Thankfully. Save for the minor sprains, strains, work related injuries, stds,(kidding of course). And bad flus, I have not needed much medical attention. Well,labour day 2018 my appendix ruptured. Should have been pretty simple right? Well, I spent two days in and out of emergency. Waiting in line!!! Waiting for a doctor. I must point out first that there is no such thing as a family doctor up here as the doctor turnover is epedemic. Pun intended. They work for peanuts and cant get out of this country fast enough for greener pastures. I dont blame them. Anyway, I finally see a doctor who couldnt speak english and wanted to send me home with some gas pills. His intern piped in barely speaking english also and said this aint right and suggested a ct scan. Long story short it ended code blue but I lived. Doctors quote on the follow up was I shouldnt be alive. Im thinking wow Jeez thanks. Knowing it shouldnt have gone that far. My point here is that but one example of many with our wait times, diagnostics and so on. So to anyone wanting social medicine down there,come on up here. Check it out. You will probably end up checking out. But 1st you will all have to put up with our socialist silver spooned elite globalist unich prime minister. But thats another post. So in closing I wanna say I love this site and would like to give you all a picture of my hunting trophy room but all it has are participation ribbons. Lmao. Later.
Well everyone. I have been lurking around here for a few yrs now and finally feel its time to chime in. The socialist crap, and mostly social medicine hit a nerve. These "myths and lies" up here in canada are actually facts and truth. Let me explain just one example of many. I have for the most part been fit and healthy to this day. Thankfully. Save for the minor sprains, strains, work related injuries, stds,(kidding of course). And bad flus, I have not needed much medical attention. Well,labour day 2018 my appendix ruptured. Should have been pretty simple right? Well, I spent two days in and out of emergency. Waiting in line!!! Waiting for a doctor. I must point out first that there is no such thing as a family doctor up here as the doctor turnover is epedemic. Pun intended. They work for peanuts and cant get out of this country fast enough for greener pastures. I dont blame them. Anyway, I finally see a doctor who couldnt speak english and wanted to send me home with some gas pills. His intern piped in barely speaking english also and said this aint right and suggested a ct scan. Long story short it ended code blue but I lived. Doctors quote on the follow up was I shouldnt be alive. Im thinking wow Jeez thanks. Knowing it shouldnt have gone that far. My point here is that but one example of many with our wait times, diagnostics and so on. So to anyone wanting social medicine down there,come on up here. Check it out. You will probably end up checking out. But 1st you will all have to put up with our socialist silver spooned elite globalist unich prime minister. But thats another post. So in closing I wanna say I love this site and would like to give you all a picture of my hunting trophy room but all it has are participation ribbons. Lmao. Later.
Well state Mooseknuckle, worth repeating :)
Sorry about the double post. Knuckles aint working and i cant stand my mother yelling at me from upstairs.
My bear guide who I am very good friends with having gone on numerous hunts with...his young son had to wait over 2 years to have a cross-eyed condition corrected with surgery. In Quebec.
Well, the only thing socialized medicine will bring is the solution that "one guy" on the BG forum who keeps talking about population control...
Only a fool puts their trust in gov't.
The system is crazy. Is single payer the cure? I dont know. But I know cut rate discount insurances that dont really cover jack but look good to healthy consumers while paying out next to nothing when needed are not a fix either. And that it's literally not possible for people of average American income's to save enough for an unexpected significant medical event - car wreck, stroke, cancer, diabetes dx, compound fracture, significant burns etc.
I thought Owl had a nice point. "To me a socialist is a person who grievously mistrusts his neighbor but somehow imbues an estranged corporate body of those very same people with enough virtue to fairly indenture all humans within its relative jurisdiction". Though the socialist in his quote ought to be capitalist if we are comparing the two terms.
Overall Id roughly define socialism is a set of governing or perhaps economic theories where by the whole value is shared by all via a centralized point... Vs capitalism where by a holarchy of small, individual whole units drive the financial and social structure of the group.
Capitalism is clearly better for generating wealth and ingenuity.
Capitalism just means that you, as the business owner, gets to reap the [almost] full benefit of the capital gained or earned and not the gov't.
In every micro-capitalism structure there exists an undertone of socialism. Don't agree, ask yourself why wage increases are heavily weighted the same across the board, or why everyone has to wear the same uniform.
I am strictly speaking about corporations where the CEO is about the most worthless employee on the payroll, yet compensated the highest and not privately owned business.
When I was working with hospitals back in the nineties, we had more MRI machines in the Denver metro area than they had in all of Canada. You could get an MRI in a maximum of two days then, according to the CEO of Swedish Hospital. In Canada, it was as much as six months before you could get an MRI.
That's the difference between socialized medicine and the free market.
To Will's point, that list of significant events is really what "health" insurance is for. We should all be paying out-of-pocket for anything that is not emergent care or life threatening. Let anyone decide if they want and can afford "cadillac-type" coverage for the routine checkups and common cold drop-ins based on the free market price. So how have we arrived where we are?
Socialists simply want something for which they have not earned, based on the sole position of existence.
Thx trax im flatterd. And yes more posts soon. gotta finish work here 1st. Texting is pretty tuff being a truck driver these days. Company has zero tolerace policy too.
bk,
Former neighbor married a Canadian girl. Her mother started getting severe headaches and nothing helped.
Set her up for an MRI. It took 6 months to get one. She died from a brain tumor 4 weeks later.
She probably would have died any way, but would have had more time to plan. The stories are real.
DL's Link
WSJ Has a number of articles about Sweden and what socialism has done.
Mooseknuckle, my father had his appendix ruptured when he was 12yrs old 1934, the dr. removed 2.5 large intestines and gave him 1 in million chance of recovery. They loaded him up on morphine and he lived but went through severe withdraws from the morphine. When WWII came he was chosen for Navy pilot but was disqualified do to the large surgical belly scare would rupture in a power dive from the G-forces and he went to be an amphibian driver. He told me when his appendix rupture he was taken to the hospital 7 miles away in a horse drawn wagon in a Feb. blizzard, he pass away at 93 yrs old 3 yrs ago. He always said that the US had one of the best medicine in the world for the common worker and to make the point there is the Mayo Hospital/Clinic that people form around the world try to come to. Thanks for your story. Socialize medicine sounds good until you need it.
Hi newfi. I hope your son had a full recovery and your bear guides young sons surgery sounds like it was successful. Save for the two yr wait. So you know 1st hand social medicine and its flaws. Hate to say it two but 2 yrs is pretty quick wait up here. I have a buddy 7yrs and waiting for knee replacements. Wheel chair bound pretty much. Another buddy a detached retina. Waited mnths for a surgeon and ended up losing complete vision in that eye. The retina basically disintegrated while waiting for surgery. And yet another buddy who without a doubt would not be alive had his heart attack occurred in Canada. Dude was running downhole oil tools in Dubai and had a a jammer in his hotel lobby. While being rushed to the hospital he ends up flatlining in the ambulance. Driver freaks out and ends up rolling the ambulance. Fortunately for Darcy the shock of the crash jump started his heart. I cant remember his procedure but it turned out to be a child hood heart defect that should not have gone undetected with a routine exam. He fully recovered after a two week stay in a Dubai hospital that he refers to as a five star resort. He was wake boarding almost immediately upon his release. On his doctors recommendation. These ppl are are immediate friends i have, who along with myself have had a direct experience in Canadian social medicine. I can just imagine other stories out there with my fellow Canadians. And jjs. Your dad must have been one hardcore cat. Did he have some canuck in his genes somewhere? lol. kidding of course. I gotta hand it to all you ppl south of the border tho. You all have to be pretty hardcore for putting up with the direction the democrats have gone. And you are all still remaining civil. Social medicine and more importantly socialism itself are "myths and lies" We live it daily up here and I can tell you we have one day of democracy and it ends when the polls close and the next four years are a dictatorship with our liberal/socialist governments.
Mooseknuckle...my son was in Mary Fletcher for weeks. On my call, dispatcher said the ambulance needed to fuel but would leave for Jollet, QC immediately. that is our med care! Married into a French family whose roots were QC. Taught history for 40 years and socialism may divide this country in such a way that will make our past war in 1861 look like a walk in the park!
The "reset" button cannot come quick enough sometimes...
Geez, somebody want to tell all of this to Rand Paul who just went up to Canada for surgery. Hope the waiting room is comfortable.
Paul Rand traveled to a PRIVATE hospital where he will pay in full, out of pocket, cash. It’s the opposite of socialized medicine.
A capitalist wishes to earn enough to support himself and family with enough left over to do good deeds for others of his choosing if he chooses.
A socialist thinks he should be able to spend other people's money for whatever he chooses.
A communist thinks only he should have money or power.
Newfi.... We probably wouldn't be able to find an ambulance up here to dispatch. Lol. And though we are covered with Cnd med insurance (sort of) our ambulance user fees are not. I would be out of pocket. Go figure....It might be different now, but I remember not to long ago that EMT'S and the services were part time. They also worked for a little better than min wage with outdated equipment. I'm not saying this is or was the norm. But we also keep hearing directly of lenghty ambulance waits as well. I understand also it can depend on ones area, province, isolation, eta. Except these were in populous areas. It is of my opinion that cosidering the amount of taxes we pay in Canada and the politicians telling us that it is to pay for our top notch, (cough,cough) health care, I'm afraid i gotta call BS. And so would most. I would sooner at least have the option to pay less taxes and to make my own decision to purchase my own insurance. I make maybe a bit better than an average income. My income tax deductions are 47% of my pay cheque. Even worse when I put in overtime..... And regarding the division of your country. I will have to post some questions from what i see, on as to why such a radical shift with the dems to extreme left. Dangerous left. I'm trying not to get to long winded with my reply here. Being a newby and all. So I will post in a bit.
Rand Paul ain’t dumb enough to have surgery in a socialist hospital he would rather pay cash and go to the best facility.
Ever notice that all those who promote and support socialism for everyone (else) seem to expect that they themselves will never ever be put into the same class of those whom they want to impose it on? If one looks at the lifestyles of these advocates of socialism more often than not are among the very wealthy...and often have gotten their wealth while in government office.
For the "little" people who hear that under the politicians promoting free everything, they are never told that socialism has never worked. It is advertised as nirvana coming to them at the expense of the rich never understanding that taking ultimately ends with nothing (the time worn saw: "Socialism works great until it runs out of other people's money).
Great article linked from Ammoland:
Simple Tests to Find Out Who is Doing Your Thinking for You
Where do you get your ideas?
The average man on the street thinks that socialism takes care of the poor. The average headline surfer thinks that civilian guns ownership causes violence. These opinions are not the result of systematic sociological research. People have “those feelings” because of what they are told in the news.
Why is the media telling us things that are so blatantly wrong?
Enthusiastic newscasters and smiling politicians tell us that Cuba and Venezuela have free healthcare. They don’t bother to tell you that Socialist healthcare is among the worst in the world. The media would never tell us the truth that we’d only use socialist healthcare if we had no other choice.
Look at the impressions you have about socialism. Are they based on facts or on spin? Many of my friends in California moved to Texas. How many people do you know who have packed up and moved to China, Cuba, Laos, Vietnam, Nicaragua, Bangladesh or to North Korea? I’ve yet to receive my first postcard from neighbors who made the big switch to the new-and-improved worker's paradise. Have you?
I didn’t think so. Why didn’t you compare what you see on the news to the reality you see in your neighborhood?
Where is this free lunch, this socialist utopia, that Socialist politicians and big-government reporters talk about?
They point at Sweden where the government takes 70 percent more in taxes than it does here in the US. Unemployment in Sweden is also about 70 percent higher than here in the US. Funny how that works..time after every damn time. How many socialists in the US have moved to Sweden? You can tell me when you’re done the packing. I’ll wait…
crickets
I guess the reality of Socialism is worse than the fluff and marketing reports we get from US politicians and their supporters in the MSM. I wouldn’t trust a socialist politician to sell me a used car let alone trust them not to sell my child’s future to the Clinton Foundation.
I notice the same media distortions when I listen to people talk about gun control, another favorite big-government program. Where is this nonviolent utopia I keep hearing about?
Most private citizens are not allowed to have guns in Mexico. The entire country has a single officially sanctioned gun store. The Mexican homicide rate is also five times higher than ours here in the US. The gun-control politicians forgot to tell us that.
Why did you think Mexico was peaceful and the US was violent?
I’ve heard complaints that Mexico isn’t like the US because guns can cross Mexico’s borders. Fine, let’s look at the data from a modern island-nation instead. England outlaws handguns and has insanely strict laws against self-defense. They have all the laws that US gun-prohibitionists want.
The violent crime rate in England and Wales is six times higher than the rate in the US. Again, the talking heads forgot to mention that important fact.
The talking heads imply the opposite. They imply that the US is one of the most violent countries in the world. It isn’t, and we aren’t even in the top half. That isn’t what the news and big-government politicians would have you believe, but you can look up the truth and do some junior-high math to compare the rates of violence for yourself.
If you didn’t know those facts then you’re letting the media and politicians do your thinking for you.
Don’t tell me that socialism works. Don’t tell me that gun control works. Show me its success. Better yet, show me the flood of people who want to move to this utopia the media invented.