Bowsite.com

Wonder when we're going to start winning it's been awhile.....

For the time being be a good friend and advise another system until it normalizes.

Long term this investment will be a big gain. Get Binoculars and a comfy chair.

A truckload of rebar used to cost my company 13,200.00 Per 48,000 lbs.

It’s now 19,800.00 for that same load. And each and every time an order is placed, it increases roughly 500.00 each load.

Stakes and nails And bolts are all in the same boat.

My trailer manufacturer is in the same situation. Again, buys direct from a giant American mill. Trailer Costs have increased 30%.

The high cost of goods is going to result in an economic down turn in the next 18 months. Average Folks are getting priced out. The economic Correction will be price driven. The writing is all the wall.

Investments cost something ... good investments bring a return. It Looks good to me.

This is best for America, and Trump is the only President, who has ever had the stones to deal with it Internationally.

But when steel corporations can't compete with China then you support Tarriffs and big government intervention.

Sounds pretty hypocritical to me.

We should protect our IP and not allow products that violate our IP law to be sold in the US. And we have laws for that; a patent holder can sue a Chinese company for patent infringement if they sell those products in the US or Europe.

As a consumer and business person, I don't want tariffs that raise the cost of raw materials. Capitalism is built on allowing the cheapest buy and making a profit selling low to consumers. If China is willing to sell at a loss it only hurts them in the long run and helps US consumers and manufacturers.

Countries use profits from other industries to subsidize where they do not have a cost advantage for goals such as increased employment.

IMO, Trump is right for addressing this.

Count me as clueless then. As well as the vast majority of economics I've ever heard opine on the matter, including the ones that I've learned from directly. We could, you know, go into recession, kill consumption, and lower the trade deficit. Somehow Trump has weaponized an economic metric that means essentially nothing to the health of the economy. At the negotiating table means all of diddly squat, and Trump has done nothing to give me any confidence that we're going to end up with a deal that is markedly better for Americans. Hell, with all these protectionist measures in place hurting American consumers, our trade deficit with China soared to a new record last year. So if it really mattered (it doesn't, at least not in the way it's being conveyed as some kind of economic loss to China), what incentive does China have to change anything as by the trade deficit measure, they're better off now than they've ever been? So please help me understand how this is "working?"

Your answer to me is: I can't see past my nose and a trade deficit is bad.

Is there any country we DON'T have a trade deficit with? We are the economic leader in the world and we consume more than any other country per capita. If products were cheaper coming from country B vs. China, we would purchase from country B.

These tariffs interfere with free trade and capitalism. I should be able to buy the cheapest products and services. And if I want to spend more for higher quality, I can do that.

We agree on the IP issue, but I see our legal system as the only way to address it.

Of course I have a problem with tariffs. But I know that the biggest losers when it comes to tariffs are the consumers of said country. Sure, it sucks for American interests looking to unload goods in China, but it sucks way more for Chinese consumers and if they wanna enact economic policy that makes them worse off, go ahead. Bad policy on our end does not negate bad policy on their end.

As far as cheap steel flooding the market instead of creating steel here, it's pretty straightforward -- as someone who consumes steel, I'm all for the cheapest product. Sure, we may have more jobs that may create more tax revenues - but we'd also have expensive steel.

You recognize that there are other economic forces that go into prices beyond just tariffs, right? I would expect someone attached to commodity markets to know this...but I guess that's what I get for assuming.

Anybody else get a gigantic chuckle when the guy that claims he's the biggest conservative in the room advocates for protectionist policies? Trax, in case you missed it, all we've had for the last year and for the foreseeable future is "stand alone tariffs."

Any economist who told you trade based on anything other than actual comparative advantages, not distorted by subsidies, currency manipulations etc, is a fool who needs to have their degrees pulled. IMHO of course.

That wasn't what the comment was. The comment was "If you don't think a $300 B trade deficit with China is bad for the US you are clueless." Many economists I know would argue that bilateral trade surpluses and deficits mean nothing with respect to the health of an entities economy and, on their own, imply nothing about "good or bad" trade relationships. I run a HUGE bilateral trade deficit with my grocer - doesn't mean it isn't an extremely valuable relationship for both of us. I'm not saying China is a "fair trader." At the same time, I'm of the opinion that the average American benefits WAY more from many of these practices than is harmed by them and that the people being harmed the most by China's protectionist policies are the Chinese themselves.

I was taught by people who were taught by the likes of Milton Friedman and others and I hold Uncle Milt in very high regard. I don't know, maybe you think he needs his degree pulled and he's clueless when he said the following regarding the trade balance:

"In the international trade area, the language is almost always about how we must export, and what’s really good is an industry that produces exports, and if we buy from abroad and import, that’s bad. But surely that’s upside-down. What we send abroad, we can’t eat, we can’t wear, we can’t use for our houses. The goods and services we send abroad, are goods and services not available to us. On the other hand, the goods and services we import, they provide us with TV sets we can watch, with automobiles we can drive, with all sorts of nice things for us to use.

The gain from foreign trade is what we import. What we export is a cost of getting those imports. And the proper objective for a nation as Adam Smith put it, is to arrange things so that we get as large a volume of imports as possible, for as small a volume of exports as possible.

This carries over to the terminology we use. When people talk about a favorable balance of trade, what is that term taken to mean? It’s taken to mean that we export more than we import. But from the point of our well-being, that’s an unfavorable balance. That means we’re sending out more goods and getting fewer in. Each of you in your private household would know better than that. You don’t regard it as a favorable balance, when you have to send out more goods to get fewer coming in. It’s favorable when you can get more by sending out less."

But yes I agree, deficits and surpluses are not a concern. It is the huge appetite of the American consumer, and our wealth that sustains it, that fuels our trade deficit.

Trump is still right to go after China to force fair and free trade. If we could ask Dr. Friedman, I would bet your life he would agree:)

Did you study at Chicago, or like me had professors who studied under Friedman?

How do Chinese tariffs help US manufacturers? Pretty easy question, they don't. We've added about 4,000 jobs to the steel sector. How do tariffs on Chinese steel help American consumers (who far outnumber those employed by the US steel industry)? They don't. It's pretty obvious the pain of the tariffs have fair outweighed the gains in steel. It's simple economics (see microeconomics 101), not esoteric crap.

The fact that other forces have pushed steel prices lower doesn't mean tariffs are a good thing, nor is it a sign that anything is working in favor of the US or even global economy. But go ahead PD, keep conflating the issues, and pretending these protectionist policies are "working." It's plain to see that they aren't.

"Trump is still right to go after China to force fair and free trade. If we could ask Dr. Friedman, I would bet your life he would agree:)

Did you study at Chicago, or like me had professors who studied under Friedman?"

Frank, I have no doubt he would despise the Chinese trade practices. I also have no doubt he would despise both the American response to China and the argument that trade deficits are bad. I received my MBA from the University of Chicago in 2011. Many of my Professors were students and colleagues of Milt, along with other great free-market thinkers like Eugene Fama, Gary Becker, Ronald Coase, and George Stigler. I know for a fact how what these professors think of the current American trade policies, as I'm still in contact with many of them.

No truer statement has been written on the CF.

Pretty easy why I fail to acknowledge them. Because there is no such thing. Last time I checked, these "stand alone tariffs" work the same way as every other tariff out there. But this is a cool concept, Trax. Sounds like as long as something is given a "not stand alone" tag, you're good with it, no matter how much it hurts our economy or reduces our freedoms over some undefined time period! Not stand alone gun-control, not stand alone taxes, not stand alone welfare, not stand alone open borders, etc.

And you're right, there have been adjustments while they continue to finalize a deal (if that ever happens)...namely, more tariffs.

No one has convinced me that tariffs are a necessity with respect to policy, nor that they will ultimately deliver some sort of trade agreement worth the cost they've already incurred. So, to me, they're just what they are - namely, a tax on all Americans. Never thought you'd have been okay with taxes, regardless of how "stand alone" they are or how much whoever is putting them into place doesn't actually want them there.

Either way, the math is not that hard.

There are many who will will USE such perceptions to increase their prices considerably more than what they can justify. When fuel prices were high several companies we dealt with added "fuel surcharges" tacked on to the bill. I have yet to see them come down with the cheaper fuel. Now they are entrenched and reply they "can't" lower them because..... prices might go back up again and it's harder to raise it back up. huh.... didn't seem too difficult when they raised it....

The newest justification for tacking on extra UNQUOTED prices are "environmental fees" All the welding supply, laundry services, etc. have them now. Even things like gloves, aluminum tig rod..... great many things that there should be no "environmental" fees on are tacking on a percentage anyway. It's in many cases justifying a price increase with hidden fees.

I buy a couple hundred dollars of metal for fabrication and repairs every month. Yeah it's gotten a good bit more expensive. IMO they are rising the prices a good deal more than thier costs are going up..... but it is what it is.

Hopefully the higher costs will have an impact on the other end with scrape metal prices. We are in a position here were we are paying $.02 to $.04 per pound to dispose of our metal. Was a time not long ago they paid YOU for your scrape metal.

But freely admit I do have purely selfish motives for wishing such a thing....... =D

We agree on deficits, or surpluses, not being a problem, said as much above.

Since they abhor Trump's approach to ending Chinese tactics, what would be a great response? Maybe Trump can get some free advice.

Always liked Becker's Theory of Rational Expectations.

Been to the University a few times back when my closest college buddy did his grad work there, ABD, Economics. His wife worked for Stigler. Corporate offer made the opportunity cost too high to stay and finish his research, LOL. Another working class kid made good.

Impressive Jason, hope others recognize it.

I have. Where does negotiating require self-inflicted pain? We have plenty of other negotiating leverage that doesn’t necessitate playing this game of “I can hurt myself longer than you can.”

And again, what are you talking about you teaching me about steel prices? Lol Where did I say they weren’t lower? In case you’ve missed it, just about every damn thing is lower now and prices on nearly every equity and commodity are pretty much flat at best since this trade war started. That’s what happens when you start a global trade war that curbs demand, raises uncertainty, and stymies economic growth. The only one being “disingenuous” is the one trying to pass this off as a good thing for the economy.

Prices are low as investors fear a recession driven in large part by these dumb tariffs.

The steel industry has added roughly 10,000 jobs. The steel industry only employs about 150,000 workers nationwide. Stop making up numbers. The estimates on job losses as a result of the tariffs have far outpaced these modest gains.

The economy has been hot, which was further reason not to douse it with dumb protectionist policies. For every economic measure that says the economy is hot, there are plenty of others that hint it’s cooling off. Equities returned next to nothing last year. So quit with the bullshit that these policies are sustainable and positive - we’re we we are in spite of them, not because of them.

August 17, 2018 Dear Valued Customer

As many of you are aware, there have been significant changes throughout this year. Most notably, the HVAC industry has witnessed significant market cost increases related to metals, components, freight and transportation and other factors. Over the past several months we have received price increases from many of our major manufacturers and parts and supplies Vendors. To minimize the impact to you, our business partner, we have absorbed many of these increases. We have just received notification that Rheem will implement a 3% price increase effective September 14. We will not be able to absorb this price increase.

As such, Gemaire will implement a 3% price increase across all items effective September 14, 2018.

We anticipate continued volatility in the market this year. As pricing pressures continue to impact our industry, further adjustments may be necessary.

All products invoiced by the close of business on September 14, 2018, will be honored at the current price.

Your Territory Manager will share more information as it becomes available and price books will be forthcoming. Your Gemaire.com pricing profiles will be updated on September 15, 2018 to reflect the price increase.

We value your business and our team would like to thank you for your continued support.

Sincerely, Charlie Figueroa President Southeast and Dade Divisions Gemaire Distributors"

So it's not all on you Bernie supporters......

Matt

"G-flight. I think others have done a good job at explaining. Sorry for your friend's inconvenience. I have no suggestions on heating systems. Sorry.

Investments cost something ... good investments bring a return. It Looks good to me. "

To add: I also thought the mark-up was way out of proportion to the steel cost and amount used in a simple heating system. Looks like An Opportunity to price gouge. It happens.

Best hope is competition.

You've said a lot more than that, in fact. You said that a trade deficit with China was bad and called anyone that thinks it isn't clueless - it isn't bad, and plenty of people who have a much firmer understanding of bilateral trade and macroeconomics than you do will tell you so. You've more or less said our economy is immune to the effects of these tariffs - it is not. You've said the negotiations are working - by what measure? We have no new deal, and the feeling from the individuals I follow who I tend to give credence to say it's unlikely we'll get anything by March when even more tariffs go into place.

You've justified these stupid protectionist policies by hiding behind the strength of the economy and ignoring the fact that this negotiating tactic is an unnecessary, self-inflicted wound on our economy. By your logic, Pig Doc, we should applaud the policy of the Obama administration seeing how unemployment fell every year he was in office, the market rose every year but one that he was in office, consumer confidence increased substantially during his tenure, and he delivered GDP growth on par with what the Trump administration has thus far. Everyone knows all of these things happened not because of Obama's positions on trade, taxes, and regulation, but in spite of them. Baffles me that people can't recognize the same thing with regard to Trump's policy on trade.

"United States Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer saw no progress on key issues in last week's talks aimed at settling the ongoing trade dispute between the United States and China, according to Sen. Chuck Grassley.

The Iowa Republican says Lighthizer believes negotiators made little headway in resolving structural issues at the heart of the dispute.

"He said that there hasn't been any progress made on structural changes that need to be made," Grassley told reporters on a conference call. "Let's say that would include intellectual property, stealing trade secrets, putting pressure on corporations to share information with the Chinese government and industries.""

China's average tariff across all products in 2016 was 3.5%. The US and EU were about 1.6%. Japan was slightly lower at 1.35%. China is not playing fair.

Now, if tariffs are the root problem, I don't think adding more tariffs is necessarily a solution. However, if Trump's tariffs cause China enough pain to make them lower their average tariff rate, they will have been a successful negotiating tool. If not, Trump will have to own the economic fall-out they've created. Time will tell.

Matt

Game of high stakes which most Americans probably do not care about or can understand even if they did.

I'll reiterate that the people hurt most by China's tariffs are the Chinese people. They seem to have no problem putting pain on the broader population to prop up industries (which is why I don't have any real confidence that they'll capitulate to anything based on the pain they're feeling now). I also don't trust China to "play fair" even with some sort of deal in place when it comes to IP, stealing corporate info, etc. Lastly, I'd say that if Trump gets China to lower their tariff rate but ours is increased, this is most definitely a loss for the USA. But if the end game is an effective lowering of the tariffs on US goods and a rescission of all of the trade hostilities put in place since this ramped-up effort began last year, then that's a win.

You're right, time will tell.

"China posted a trade surplus of $323.32 billion with the U.S. in 2018. ... BEIJING—China’s trade surplus with the U.S. hit a record last year, as robust American demand for Chinese goods undercut the Trump administration’s tariff offensive aimed at narrowing the countries.

China recorded a 17% jump from last year"

It's pretty clear that is his plan, but I'd say it's a little more nuanced than just sticking it to the Chinese. I was gonna call it a game of chicken but it's not really that because there's really no pain in a game of chicken.

It's more like seeing who's gonna call uncle first. It's "I'm gonna stick it to US consumers, and at the same time stick it to Chinese businesses - and let's see which government blinks first." He's banking it will be them. As I've said, I'm not convinced that it will be them, and even if it is, that it will be worth it in the end - particularly the longer it drags on.

For all that are onboard with this plan, what is an acceptable time-frame to deliver a deal? What does a winning deal for the United States contain?

You missed my talking about the letters and price increases apparently. I had to answer my own question because you couldn't...

As Kevin pointed out, there are winners and losers. Prices may increase because of reduced Chinese imports, but employment will also be impacted, positively. How long, no clue. I do agree with increasing the temperature on China though, and not just for unfair trade but also to help contain their aspirations for empire building and regional domination. I think this is part of the picture, and possibly the biggest component. Trump is not dumb, just too crude for me. The guys keep telling me to get over it though.

gflight, last March we had an entire system replaced, heat pump, furnace, blower. I know the owner of the company. $6K last year, not even $6500 this year Not sure your numbers make sense?

XP21 Lennox with 98 something gas furnace was the system, complete.

The Labor Department said Wednesday that its Producer Price Index fell in December. Compared with the month, prices were down 0.2 percent. Economists had forecast a slight price gain for the month.""

I agree but who would ever say the Chinese market was a free market. They have a closed market to our goods or they have to own half the company etc. THAT is why Trump is hitting them with tariffs.

Just to be fair, I took your first post as blaming the tariffs as the cause of most of the price increase. You have earned my respect, so I try and step back some. I was glad it was pointed out there is not enough material to cause a price jump of that much. Maybe switching over to the latest Freon, which I did instead of salvaging the old, soon to be obsolete, is what cost so much?

I certainly don't mind pointing out when Trump fails us, but the tariffs did not cause that much of a price jump, on their own IMO.

Tell me the parts of a heat pump and I will pick for you.

Lennox International: The air conditioner maker, which forecasts $5 million in costs in 2018 from tariffs, is raising prices to offset the expenses.

You following me like a puppy is flattering but kind of creepy at the same time.

You got your go fund me money what more do you want from me?

"Since the announcement of a 25 percent tariff on all foreign steel imports, the market has been placed under significant constraints unlike which we have experienced in recent past. All steel manufactured products will inevitably be impacted by this announcement as it rolls into implementation. To navigate such volatile market conditions, we will be implementing a 6 percent increase on all nonmaterial-intensive products and a 12 percent increase on material-intensive products.

Fortunately, Hercules has maintained a close relationship with our domestic mills over the years, and we plan to leverage our relationship to ensure we can meet the demand of our loyal customers. In the event that steel prices reach levels that reach beyond the increases already announced, we will be forced to implement an additional increase in the near future."

From: gflight 12-Jan-19

I recommended to a friend the heat pump system that I bought a year ago for just under $8,000. $12,000 now due to steel tarriffs....

Lennox International: The air conditioner maker, which forecasts $5 million in costs in 2018 from tariffs, is raising prices to offset the expenses.

Price increased due to tariffs, maybe tariffs other than steel as well but still tariffs just the same. thank you have a nice day.....

Where did I post citing a 50% increase? Talk about total BS....

Time to move on from this inaccurate claim!

Tariffs on steel and aluminum were announced in March, not July. The April price increase was also the second price increase announced by Lennox due to inflationary pressures. All you have to do is look at the earnings calls to see Lennox very much includes tariffs as part of the inflationary pressures.

And that's the point that people are either missing or ignoring. CEOs aren't going to sit by and wait to see what happens - they're going to move proactively. And they're going to act on what they know and expect. Slap a 25% charge on a part of their supply chain, and it's not a shocker that many of them are going to raise prices. No one can predict with absolute certainty what the underlying commodity prices (that are also not inclusive of any tariff charges that go into the overall cost of goods) are going to do and it certainly doesn't make the decisions of price increases of those CEOs "wrong" when their expectations and estimations are off. Just highlights the unnecessary uncertainty and challenges tariffs bring to corporations that typically result in decisions that have a detrimental, cascading effect on the economy.

I didn't make up the quotes....

Q2 earnings call with Lennox, in reply to a question about a drop in incremental margin, CEO Tim Bluedorn said:

"I think if you take the midpoint of our guide, we're a little bit below 30%. I think the thing that we've seen is first half of the year we were chasing freight and chasing the tariffs and we've now put in place a price increase. I think second half of the year will probably be closer to 30% on a full-year basis. We'll probably be a little bit below it."

Translation: we raised prices because of tariffs, among other things. Sounds like more than zero to me...

Huge shortage of HVAC laborers in many parts of the country. We have 100% placement at our college, some leaving before completion due to offers they can't turn down. This is probably having a bigger impact on installation prices.

Matt

It is a justification. Look what steel prices did from April to October. Yes, metals are down now but weren’t for most of the year. These CEOs don’t have crystal balls that tell them exactly what’s going to happen with commodity prices. Layer in another 25% from tariffs and you’re staring at price increases of nearly 50% for parts of their supply chain. They aren’t adjusting prices daily. They’re making strategic decisions and riding them out. Call it an excuse if you want, but it’s how decisions are made and business is done.

Matt

You seem to also be operating under the assumption that steel prices end with the commodity price. They don’t. You do understand this, right?

You do also understand that heat pumps and other equipment contains motors, electronics, controls, and other equipment also subject to new tariffs, right? You do understand that the effects of tariffs and this stupid trade war extend beyond just the % importers have to pay on goods, right? That the overall uncertainty and headwind this adds to the economy causes people in corporations to react in ways that ultimately are a drag on the economy. I don’t think you understand this.

I’ll pass on feeding farm animals though. Based on your understanding of fairly basic economic principles and your overall demeanor on these threads, pretty sure it would be terrible. Big oil is just fine.

Tell your buddy to use trunk line instead of steel duct work. It's much cheaper and does just fine.

When it comes to whose product does more to improve our qualities of life, lets run a test. We can stop producing your reduced antibiotic farm feed, or we can stop producing oil and gas. Let's see which one society complains about being gone first.

And quit it with the subsidies thing. You're grasping for straws and making up narratives again. First off, I have never said I supported any subsidies or direct tax breaks for my industry or any other industry - it's good to hear that you don't either for yours. Secondly, stop treating these subsidies and tax breaks as the reason the O&G industry is alive. Sorry, but the "billions" you're talking about is barely a blip in an industry adding over a trillion dollars to the GDP each year in this country.

LOL...quite possibly the most ideologically unsound statements you've made on this thread, and you've made some doozies.

That said, you've really piqued my interest. Help me understand how feed additives travel by internet?

Lol again with the fake news. I never said I’m a “staunch” Libertarian. I’m not staunch anything. I’ve got big problems with a fair amount of the Libertarian platform. So keep making shit up. You’ve been good at it on this thread.

But in case I do wanna, you know, go like 100% Libertarian, I’d love to hear what a Libertarian approved company and industry would be. Can you name one for me?? LOL

I did learn something today, so thanks for that. Apparently pigs and chickens can eat computer code. Good to know!

And information is worthless if someone doesn’t do something with that information. Just a hunch, but I’d bet that plenty of the solutions you propose wouldn’t be possible without energy.

And I do appreciate your concern, PD. But nope, doesn’t suck to be me at all.

After reading your numerous posts, I agree it must suck to be you Pig Doc. You couldn't buy a friend if your life depended on it. Take your meds and get some quiet time in your padded room.

Ahhhhh Hahahahahahahaha What do you think the oil industry subsidies that you’ve been harping on are?? You do realize that these anti-Libertarian oil “subsidies” that you keep harping on are tax deductions, royalty relief, and accounting treatments, right??? No, of course you don’t. The federal government isn’t just cutting us checks like they are your customers (of which we know...zero has ended up in your pocket LOL).

So I take that as a yes, you do take R&D tax credits?

Name one earmarked for oil and gas. A true handout. Please.

The news today? No real way to judge it. Ask yourself why the offer wasn’t accepted? What’s the path to closing the gap? Devil’s in the details, of which we’ve seen none. Besides, I’ve said all along that focusing on the balance of trade is meaningless. No mention of what will happen to tariffs, IP protection, etc. Lots more questions than answers at this stage.

Matt

Yeah he lost me here

I’m confused. I thought you said you were cool with favorable tax rules, Pig Doc? You just have a problem with them when oil companies get them? I’m pretty sure (like 100% sure) the Libertarian party is totally fine with these “subsidies” that are nothing more than accounting rules that lowers the taxes many corporations pay and thereby lowers the footprint of the Federal Government. So again, Pig Doc...you wanna point our one subsidy that we get directly that aren’t tax breaks since you’ve said we get tons of them or you wanna admit you’re talking out of your ass? Might wanna go back and edit your post like you did when you claimed Trump’s tariffs added hundreds of thousands of jobs to the steel industry.

And not to speak for KPC but I imagine he was alluding to the hypocrisy of Pig Doc saying his company doesn’t benefit from subsidies (ie, the grocer) when no doubt his customers are paying him, in part, in dollars they’ve received from the Federal government (ie customers with food stamps).

Of course the liberal media completely buried this story today. The proposed plan could affect milliions of working Americans. Bloomberg reported:

China has offered to go on a six-year buying spree to ramp up imports from the U.S., in a move that would reconfigure the relationship between the world’s two largest economies, according to officials familiar with the negotiations.

By increasing goods imports from the U.S. by a combined value of more than $1 trillion over that period, China would seek to reduce its trade surplus — which last year stood at $323 billion — to zero by 2024, one of the people said. The officials asked not to be named as the discussions aren’t public.

The offer, made during talks in Beijing earlier this month, was met with skepticism by U.S. negotiators who nonetheless asked the Chinese to do even better, demanding that the imbalance be cleared in the next two years, the people said. Economists who’ve studied the trade relationship argue it would be hard to eliminate the gap, which they say is sustained in large part by U.S. demand for Chinese products.

Maybe more shoveling is what you should be doing.

Of course we do. I imagine it’s a small percentage of our customer base. What percentage is it of your customers?

And you haven’t named one handout we get yet, Pig Doc. Still waiting. I thought it was all good Pig Doc, those oil industries “subsidies” are just like mortgage interest you know.

If this is the best you’ve got at this stage, you should probably just go shovel pig shit. Or you maybe just go to bed.

Here’s another article:

“Meat and dairy companies to surpass oil industry as world’s biggest polluters, report finds”

Don't forget "" jacking off pigs "" PD. You should be proud. I appreciate the PM's you sent. Very entertaining.

How much of your income and wealth has come from people that do produce meat and dairy? You can try and wash your hands of the industries that your company directly supports and upon which your entire business is based, but everyone here sees through the charade.

PD,

Like I said in one of our PM conversations, monopoly money and play money don't count.

""Pitiful is probably more accurate.""

I agree KPC, but we shouldn't be to hard on those who live in a complete fantasy world and they repeat the same thing time and time and time and time again. I guess I'm getting mellow in my age.

You added a lot to your second to last post from what you said originally.

I am going to stick with my mom's tango wisdom.

Sometimes a person can just be an annoying jerk that needs to be told that straight up, in private.

Maybe somebody is artful and a word smith capable of pushing someone's buttons in a way that gives them cover as their character is above reproach. They get away with it because no one called them out on it ever, because the jerk has carefully crafted their words in a way that everyone knows they are insulting the other person, yet it is not done with the flagrant style used face to face on the street.

Then along comes a guy like Chad, smart both street-wise and educated. He recognizes what is going on, and Bam, he says it like he sees it, only doing so privately.

The only recourse the wordsmith has is to announce publicly he received PMs, done in a manner that is intended to tarnish the person with enough gravitas to call BS.

When I read someone telling us they received naughty PMs, it tells me something about their character as well. Forums are rough and tumble, you better grow a pair if you are going to be a jerk, even with the best camoflauge, because you will be called on it. I know, I get called on it often!

See, you thought I was calling someone besides me a jerk. How did I do;-)

“Tariffs force tough choices in Louisiana as farmers leave soybeans in fields to rot.”

"We lost the demand in the market with the tariffs. There were no exports. They weren't shipping out. China wasn't buying, of course China buys about, a little over 50 percent of our crop.

In October, Louisiana businesses paid more than eight times the duties paid on the same products one year earlier, according to Tariffs Hurt the Heartland, a bipartisan anti-tariff lobbying group, and economic consulting firm The Trade Partnership.

In fact, breakbulk exports at the Port of New Orleans were down 14 percent in 2018 compared to 2017, mostly due to the decline in agricultural cargo. The port handles 60 percent of export grain from the Midwest. Imports were even harder hit, down 26 percent, much of that decline driven by steel.

It really started with false information, that being tariffs were the cause of a HVAC system increasing 50% from a year ago.

Tariffs certainly have had an impact. Anyone growing crops knows it, myself included.

Weather has had a bigger impact in my area, many fields left unharvested or turned into silage due to lack of rain.

BEG, Chad-I like to eat and also use my many gas and diesel engines. Thank you both!

Yes, we did have a private, short exchange, maybe 4-6 months or so ago?

What I remember is you violating one of your own truths, specifically that a person has lost the argument when they call someone a name. I remember being called a weasel.

Point being, I don't want to be judged by my worst day on Earth, and I bet neither does anyone else. Your continual attempt to disparage another's character says a lot about yours Kevin. Handle any PMs you don't want by not opening them.

Just to be clear, I have not PMed you since the brief exchange above because you made it clear not to. Otherwise I would have sent these last two in private which is how they should be handled, IMO of course.

Correction, I did send an PM to you and one other asking if my memory of a certain individual abusing TOTS was accurate or not, in an attempt to not falsely accuse another poster.

FTR, what I have gleaned from your posts about your family is all positive, as is what I have learned about Chad's family. You both have provided good direction to your children (adults now) and I very much respect that. But, I am biased in favor of education. :)

And you both have done exceedingly well with wealth creation.

Kudos to you both!

Kevin,

I am surprised that you have received multiple vulgar PMs from multiple individuals. Maybe that is saying something?

I don't equate pissing matches out in the open to having a set. Some things are better done one on one. I guess we just differ in style. Most of my PMs are compliments towards what another poster said, or asking for clarification.

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Amen!

Working in the oil industry, we’re pretty familiar with having to adapt or die and I agree that’s the way it should be.