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Canada saving money on medical care
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Contributors to this thread:
HA/KS 05-Feb-19
Woods Walker 05-Feb-19
JTV 05-Feb-19
HA/KS 06-Feb-19
HDE 06-Feb-19
itshot 06-Feb-19
walking buffalo 06-Feb-19
LINK 06-Feb-19
HDE 06-Feb-19
HDE 06-Feb-19
Trax 06-Feb-19
bowbender77 06-Feb-19
gflight 06-Feb-19
walking buffalo 06-Feb-19
Owl 06-Feb-19
Dale Cover 06-Feb-19
IdyllwildArcher 06-Feb-19
Owl 06-Feb-19
HDE 06-Feb-19
IdyllwildArcher 06-Feb-19
Dale Cover 06-Feb-19
TD 06-Feb-19
Owl 06-Feb-19
HedgeHunter 06-Feb-19
HA/KS 06-Feb-19
lawdy 06-Feb-19
walking buffalo 06-Feb-19
Owl 07-Feb-19
Spike Bull 07-Feb-19
From: HA/KS
05-Feb-19

HA/KS's Link
Yup, let's be more like Canada.

"Euthanasia Could Save Canada Millions in Healthcare Costs

“Medical assistance in dying" could save Canada as much as $138.8 million annually."

From: Woods Walker
05-Feb-19
If we did that here, let's start with elected officials first and see how well it works.

From: JTV
05-Feb-19
PutZ volunteers to be a guinea pig . .

From: HA/KS
06-Feb-19

HA/KS's embedded Photo
HA/KS's embedded Photo

From: HDE
06-Feb-19
Our waste of a space gov'r in NM will sign medical assisted suicide if it clears the house and senate...

From: itshot
06-Feb-19
hay putz, may want to take mom along for the toronto trip.....huge savings, win/win, god damn amerika!

06-Feb-19
So what you guys are saying is that no person should have the right of self determination to end their own life.... While it's valid for the government to force you into a situation that will imperil your life (conscription), and to force you to live regardless of your suffering and pain, inability to function....

Land of the Free? Really?

From: LINK
06-Feb-19
Thinking that life of a human is yours to give or take is sick. Walking Buffalo I’m pretty sure people have been taking their own lives since Judas hung himself and before. No one is going to take away your ability to end it. Approving assisted suicide is far different and only one step from someone deciding for you that your life is not worth living and ending it for you.

From: HDE
06-Feb-19
"When a worker is no longer able to contribute to society, they will be euthanized as they are now a drain on the common good of society".

Sounds like something Moa or Stalin would say...

From: HDE
06-Feb-19
So what's the difference between a really smart guy with a needle and syringe or a compassionate friend of the family with a 4" knife blade carefully slid into the base of one's skull that has a terminal illness in the last stages?

Simple, one is "ok" and the other is murder...

From: Trax
06-Feb-19
Socialism is a scam that attracts blind dumb sheep led by tyrants.

Socialized medicine is simply a by product. Lesser care at a much greater cost. Your life being that cost in some cases. We must reform health care through the private sector and remove government from the equation.

From: bowbender77
06-Feb-19
TRAX X2

From: gflight
06-Feb-19
"The proportion of Canadians with cancer who die in hospital is more than twice as high as the United States."

06-Feb-19
"Thinking that life of a human is yours to give or take is sick. Walking Buffalo I’m pretty sure people have been taking their own lives since Judas hung himself and before. No one is going to take away your ability to end it. Approving assisted suicide is far different and only one step from someone deciding for you that your life is not worth living and ending it for you. "

Yet, many feel it is patriotic for society to give authority to the government to decide a person's fate. How can acceptance of government authority over life and opposition to individual authority of one's own life be conflated?

I suspect you are ignorant of Canada's assisted suicide laws. In no way does this advance government's or a family's ability to decide on an individual's fate. What this law does advance is the ability for an individual to determine their own fate, then facilitate professional help to ensure a compassionate and effective recourse after set conditions are proven in court.

From: Owl
06-Feb-19
I have no doubt once legally codified, euthanasia will become the "unofficial" default for elder care past a certain point. And that point will slowly creep away from mortality and closer to vitality as time goes on. Anyone who does not predict likewise is delusional. This not a box we want to open. Besides, the implications of killing oneself do not change when "the law allows it." Nor do the mechanisms, really. Anyone of the mind can swallow a handful of pills.

On the more personal side, suicide is very difficult for survivors to handle. Now, imagine you had those survivors participate by knowingly go along with it. Talk about a burden.

From: Dale Cover
06-Feb-19
Assisted suicide for terminally ill patients is compassionate in my opinion. Many don't have the ability or the mental strength to pull the trigger. Knowing that your life is going away anyway, why would we want that person to suffer needlessly when there's no chance of a cure? My mother in law essentially died of assisted suicide in hospice care when they more or less OD'd her on pain meds. It was the best outcome she could hope for. But she had to go through years of pain and it wasn't until she finally made it into hospice that she was able to get relief.

If and when I get to the point where I know I'm terminal, and especially if there's debilitating pain involved, I'd like to have the option to talk to my family and my doctor about it, and go out on my terms with something that's guaranteed to work, rather than some guesstimate that "I hope this works". It would save the family from watching me suffer as well as end my suffering.

As long as the only person who can make the call is the patient themselves, I see nothing wrong with it. We put animals out of their misery when the end is near, so why don't we offer ourselves that option?

06-Feb-19
If you guys think that euthanasia isn't already happening on a broad and merciful scale already in this country, you're pulling the wool over your eyes. It saves millions, maybe billions of dollars, but more importantly, it's merciful and the right thing to do.

From: Owl
06-Feb-19
"As long as the only person who can make the call is the patient themselves, I see nothing wrong with it. We put animals out of their misery when the end is near, so why don't we offer ourselves that option?"

-Because we are not animals. For me, it is a spiritual issue. We are made in the image of God and, as such, we have to tend to the Spirit more so than the flesh. But, if that dissatisfies the secular palette, consider that humans have to deal with the dilemmas of conscience that mere animals do not.

"Knowing that your life is going away anyway, why would we want that person to suffer needlessly when there's no chance of a cure?" -Living wills tend to curtail the end without the moral implications.

From: HDE
06-Feb-19
If assisted suicide is compassionate and the right thing to do, why is the death penalty viewed as cruel and unusual?

This would make a great movie. A spouse gets with a doc to implant a terminal illness into the other to initiate an assisted suicide to cash in a life insurance policy. Then the surviving spouse and the doc either split the proceeds or run away together to some tropical paradise with no extradition policy.

06-Feb-19
"If assisted suicide is compassionate and the right thing to do, why is the death penalty viewed as cruel and unusual?"

Very good question.

From: Dale Cover
06-Feb-19
Because people facing the death penalty generally want to fight it for all they're worth.

I don't see the spiritual issue. You're going to die anyway, why is it more spiritual to deal with endless pain and suffering?

Living wills don't give you the option if your body is still functioning, only to keep them from saving you. Can still be a messy end that way.

From: TD
06-Feb-19
It's the exact same mentality that many feel a third trimester or even post birth abortion is justifiable. And for many of the same reasons. It's not just a "slippery" slope...... it's flippin greased.......

Living wills can deal with a great number of late stage issues WRT prolonging life. They don't let terminal late stage people suffer. Been there with Hospice, etc. Prior to late stage.... you want to end it all, knock yourself out..... so to speak. They don't make suicide an easy thing to do for a reason..... just a bad day or a bout with depression.... enough folks are DIY in those cases as there is.....

From: Owl
06-Feb-19
"You're going to die anyway, why is it more spiritual to deal with endless pain and suffering?"

I've had 2 profound revelations deriving from the passing of loved ones. Both changed my life. And, frankly, the dire context was elemental. I have a colleague that lost his sister-in-law early to cancer. As she was dying, she said something to him that completely upended his life. He became born again and is easily the most sincere Christian I know, the real deal. He still can't talk about that moment without weeping.

The above stated, I can see that folks don't get those moments with every passing. But what we avoid in abridging life is equally valuable. We have a tendency to avoid what's difficult despite what is right. We know this. And, when we do that in violation of God's law, not only do we we suffer the loss of insight, we suffer a real perversion of conscience. If for no other reason, somewhere along the line, you'll think, "I hated to see him or her go but it was easier on everybody." And, then, you'll have to deal with acknowledging that expediency trumped the sanctity of life.

From: HedgeHunter
06-Feb-19
Shoots Brah,

The Cunnuckistani’s will be stickin ice picks behind the ears of elderly up there on wellness checks real soon.

Very Worldly

HH~

From: HA/KS
06-Feb-19
Just one more way people are trying to deny both the existence and the authority of God.

From: lawdy
06-Feb-19
I’ll tell you how the Canadian government saves money on healthcare, you get cancer, you get a round of chemo. It comes back and you get another round. The third time, you get hospice, it is over. I spend a lot of time in Newfy and work there playing music. A friend of ours wife had breast cancer and that is exactly what happened. He wanted to bring here to the US but was broke. Another friend of ours has waited over a year for cataract surgery. She can’t even drive, but it is considered “nonessential.” Canadian healthcare is paid for with a 14% sales tax called the HST, plus a 12% provincial tax. At least everyone pays, but it sure isn’t free, and you should see the waiting rooms at the clinics, packed. Everyone goes for every little ass ache and pain. After all, it’s free. Be careful what you wish for this nation. Medicare isn’t free. I pay $138/month, as does my wife. Plus a supplement and drug insurance equals $650/month. Now if everyone gets Medicare, will those who wallow at the public trough pay or will they stiff the old and workers? I know the answer to that. Finally, in Newfy, a clinic visit for me as an American, $400 paid up front. I go see a doctor at his house and pay $50 American.

06-Feb-19
I see people here are mixing up Canadian and USA law.... pretty tough to have a productive discussion when foundational facts don't apply.

Living wills "end of life" care legal authority is quite different between the countries.

From: Owl
07-Feb-19
This topic is not about comparisons, wb. It concerns the realities of euthanasia once implemented. It supersedes specifics.

07-Feb-19
I was present for my Father's passing and, more recently, my Mother's. They offer you a button to push to give them morphine to alleviate their pain as they go. Not that they need more as they have plenty when staff remove whatever it is that is keeping them alive.

Is that euthanasia? Perhaps.

Once we were all there, my Mother asked for permission to die.

Our current policy seems sort of like dont-ask-dont-tell.

Either way, any power we give to the government will, sooner or later, be abused, to include any control of healthcare. Like the second amendment, people should have whatever care they can afford. Others can volunteer to help, but should never be forced by the government.

It should be a basic law that all legislators live with the very same rules and limits which they prescribe for us and ALL should be Constitutional in nature..

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