If not for my grandchildren, I believe the best medicine to cure the disease sweeping America would be to forgo capitalism, replaced by a taste of socialism. The provided list of ELECTED officials in "stunning" numbers, stunning only of course to those who have been sleeping while guarding the gates, is of no surprise. The present known list, increased further by those unknown, is the epitome of a representative government, who represent the people who elected them. These officials did not walk in and take a seat. They convinced, coerced and deceived, and, in the process afforded themselves free reign to further their own agenda.
Who are at blame? Those who I have warned many times over the years but continue to wait until their neck is under the edge of the sword to rebel.
The seeds have been planted when they should have been uprooted and exposed from their outset, but Americans had more pressing issues as in " what color siding should we install on our new shore house".
I have little to no faith in this America that has allowed itself not only to be invaded, but invaded with pomp and ceremony, changing forever the dynamics of a once proud powerful nation.
I am plugged in and have crissed- crossed this nation and listened to dissenting voices for a very long time and they do not include me and mine for the future.
We stand inspecting the wheels of the wagon that has slowed down and their parts for failure, when further up, under the harness, the blinkers and under the reins is the problem.
The Rock
Shouting dire warnings on the CF is not doing anything. Please post proof of what actions you are involved with besides what most of us do such as vote, communicate with legislators, contribute productively to society etc. Thanks.
Instead of using words such as "sensible" and "mimick", for clarity purposes can you tell us exactly who you are referring to that has said we need to mimick. Please identify the country they said we need to mimick as well. I assume a post like yours must be referring to multiple participants, correct?
An inability to identify multiple individuals stating openly what we should mimick from a specific location is akin to doing the same as accusing the Covington kids of something they did not do IMO.
Further, reasonable people do disagree. Failure to understand how that may occur simply reflects ignorance.
Now tell me. What have you done besides soap boxing an sleep walking in your life?
The Rock
Never my intention to inquire or expose what others may earn. That is not my business. I simply used a mathematical average. You spoke way out of line of what others themselves may have been contributing. I believe I have grounds to question the politics in this country considering the time and money put forth in this now dysfunctional party. Now that the threat is real its time to save the country? The country is lost and has been lost and the hard headed who believed otherwise will whimper on the gallows.
Watch the news cycles Frank. Any news outlet and cycle. What in the hell can't you see?
There is always a savior and then ANOTHER savior. We identified Trump as the 5th finger in a six hole dike to simply buy time and a soft landing spot and I hope all others see it the same way for the good of the remnants of a once truly great society. When 2020 goes our way and it will, the end of the era is over. You have six more years to prepare your future elsewhere. How could you ask for more and to who would you be indebted?
The man who is discounted and disparaged every single day relentlessly, one Donald Trump.
The Rock
"Further, reasonable people do disagree. Failure to understand how that may occur simply reflects ignorance."
Sorry, this isn't a discussion on what color to paint the living room, or should we put down real hardwood or laminate flooring. This is a discussion about the direction of this country. It's soul, it's heart. Try to have a "reasonable" discussion with AOC, Pelosi, or the rest of the socialist leaning left. You will be met with screaming, shouting, shifting goal posts, ambiguous and vacuous ideas. Of which any disagreement or challenge is met with cries of racist, homophobe, nationalist, white privilege..... There is no reasonable discussion, because the reality is, we should NOT be having a discussion about taking this country in a socialist direction.
I like it when I can understand you, so please read this and think about it just a little. I did yours and felt the need to respond respectfully.
Yes, I did speak way out of line, and so did you. That was my point. None of us know what the other has done, or their total life's experiences. I assume we each bring a unique perspective to the table, but lately as a nation instead of trying to understand others we attack and call them names. I think Trump has contributed to this more than most. You are right that he suffers attacks from all sides, yet I hope you can admit he is receiving some of what he has dished out his entire life.
Thank you for your contributions to causes you feel just. I mean that sincerely. And thank your entire family. You asked what have I done, probably more than you will ever recognize. One quick example that you could verify... Former Royals Mike Sweeney and his wife support pro-life causes. He held some fund raisers for pregnant young girls to fund their medical care and living expenses so they would give their kids up for adoption. We supported that and other similar events when we were invited and/or solicited. This is in line with what my Catholic upbringing taught me to do, and I think much more productive than wearing MAGA hats to a life rally. We speak of production being a major reason to support trump, let's try and be consistent.
On another thread, slade was critical of folks he calls Mavericks. I believe he is referring to Matt (Grey Ghost) and myself. On multiple occasions both Matt and I have stated support for trump's judicial appointments. Both of us think it may be his greatest contribution so far. Yet, when slade posted his comments, which either flow from being ignorant to what we posted, or worse, he intentionally lied to deceive, only one individual really challenged him-gflight. This behavior goes on because our side justifies it if we don't like the individual or agree with what they post. Just like the liberal side.
We look the other way when trump attacks someone. For example, John McCain deserves our respect for his having displayed major courage and love of his soldiers and nation. Yet, during the campaign trump made fun of him to cheers. The same group of people always proclaim their admiration for the WW2 heroes, as we should. But I knew several who grew up in my area, several that always voted D. It is easy to love people we really don't know, and to idolize them, and just as easy to tear someone down we see in public, warts and all. I am not going to apologize to say this bothers me, and it reflects more on us that it did John.
You asked me if I read the news. Seriously Rock. It is obvious I do. And it is obvious each of us bring a unique experience and perspective to the table. I am OK with people not thinking there is only one way.
You mention a savior, there is only One. I look to no man or woman for our redemption. It is my firm belief that God blest this nation's beginning, and continues to bless us. Trump is behaving in a way none of us predicted, and occupies the Oval Office because of God's Will. So, the number one thing Robin and I have done is ask God to continue providing proper guidance to our leaders. I hope this helps explain why I have no problem being critical of the man, and will also readily admit I in no way could do anywhere even remotely close to what he has accomplished. Actually, I hope this site has been monitored in some way by his people and hope they see all of us are not going to jump on board the trump train regardless of what he does.
Thank you again for a good discussion.
As I recently posted, I attended a presentation sponsored by our Staff Development Office at our college. The topic was environmentalism/conservation.
It was presented by an English PhD professor. Though not a hunter himself, he was pro-hunting and spoke of our contributions to conservation.
Just my limited experience, yes most professors are left of center. Yet most take strides to present their subject matter objectively. Each student will only receive an education commensurate with what they put into it. This requires they not be just sponges, but have an inquisitive mind.
Education is an easy target for conservatives because unfortunately the vast majority of political contributions by teacher's unions go to Democrats.
I am the guy responsible at JCCC for teachers being notified each year that they can ask for their dues money back that would normally go to political actvities. Multiple teachers request the money be returned.
Teachers are no different than farmers lobbying for more subsidies, or businesses asking for special tax considerations etc.
Our problems are much more involved than the simple stereotyping that goes on.
Matters not what a man has accomplished in his life. Matter's only what he aspires to do.
Trump has given this nation, and his base is here to attest,a stop gap to liberal lunacy. Do you agree with last day abortions Frank? I would say your prayers are being answered by the Almighty in that Trump is vehemently against this also. You believe in socialism Frank. Again Jesus must have a warm spot in his heart for Trump also in this matter. How about illegal immigration, border security etc. Keep praying for Trump Frank because Our Lord is listening and moving Trumps hand.
I appreciate the civil, well thought out response to my post after all is said and done.
The Rock
I absolutely abhor socialism.
I will repeat an often used quote by me, from a former editor of the WSJ;
"I place supreme faith in markets, democracy and the human capacity to adapt and prosper."
Rock, I am a Supply Side free marketer. Please make a mental note of that. I ask you not disrespect me with accusations that are easily verified as false.
We disagree on one other thing. Results matter. Trying is great, but not any where near as great as production. I hate second place, trying is for losers, winning is what counts. Gosh, sorry, too many sports growing up.
Thanks again.
No, I do not support abortion. I am pro_life from conception. I make exceptions for life of the mother which I have had multiple doctors tell me with today's technology that is extremely rare.
I also believe in the "Morning After Pill" for rape and incest. God I pray I am not wrong with that.
Promote based on potential rather than performance?
That you would question simplicity highlights your ignorance.
The Rock
I reflected on your comments regarding Pelosi, AOC calling people names instead of having reasoned discussion. But read above as Slade basically calls me a communist.
I believe our side misses the extreme voices from the right. And by ignoring them we provide ammo to the left to conclude we are all like that.
Posters like Slade and JTV want you to believe if we do not hold the same positions as them, then we are socialists or communists. When the right cannot find room for a guy with my beliefs, you will end up in a small tent. Trump might not have enough time to invite others in, views on him have hardened. Is it worth it to have a leftist assigning judges two years from now?
There is only one reason Trump won and that my quisling is the majority of the voting populace on the right is tired of twaddling Maverick candidates who like you and your "fav" Rove think pompous appeasement is a virtue. The voting populus is tired of your "reasoned discussion" circle jerks which as a government tit suckler you think is accomplishing something.
Please call me a racist some more and sling your faux Christian mumbo-jumbo while questioning others beliefs and denigrating them, it only amplifies with clarity who and what you really are.
By your own admittance, your own conservative friends do not think you are a conservative, but only you who tangles with the majority of conservitives on the CF think you are the true voice.....
Keep playing the victim turncoat and I will keep jerking your chain...........
You are nothing more than a dishonest person who has fallen into a cesspool. You are not jerking my chain. You have a sick twisted mind that allows you to make up facts that are not supportable. When called on it, all you can do is lie even more.
Trump is no conservative. And if his behavior continues, he will not have a second term.
You do not have courage, you are a weak pitiful person capable of nothing more than attacking. Insecure individuals behave that way.
I could care less if you or anyone here think I meet the definition of conservative. Unlike you, I have never needed someone like Trump to tell me what and how to think.
Trump does not stand up to people because of courage. He is a narcissist who cannot help himself and lashes out like you do at anyone who actually possesses the courage to think for themselves.
Slade, my words hit close to home and that is why you reacted the way you did.
If Trump won because people were tired of waffling, he will lose because they are tired of his behavior today. Kyle recently posted you had changed from the well respected voice you once was. You did not change, the real man you are came out when you thought it was now acceptable to be a jerk. You will try and morph to something else when current behaviors are no longer acceptable.
It’s that simple in the thick of things. Black and white is how it’s measured. Not degrees of grey. That’s how I feel about things because it simplifies problems. However, everyone wants their perspectives to be considered.
Consider this then. My business is struggling. Struggling worse then it ever has. Due to Trade negotiations. And the domestic wood market rebuilding. Instead of being pissed, I’m moving on when I can. Because it’s better for the greater good that has caused these hard times for me.
I wander how perspectives would make others feel in this situation? Because the average American gets wrapped up in the me part of things. How it affects them personally. Their “perspective” has caused the problems we have as a country. So, if it’s not black and white, it means it a problem.
There are many here that feel this way. I see it in their responses. Because they too recognize the need for yes or no. It might not be the best for every single person. But, it’s the best to right this country.
That’s the people here getting called ignorant, classless, clueless, etc.... By perspective I add. How ironic.
The question you posed earlier Frank is easily answered after understanding this. Yes, some of it was directed at you. Just like most of this post was. If you aren’t for righting this country to its constitutional roots, then many feel you are the problem. It isn’t that they don’t hold the same beliefs as you. It’s they don’t hold the degrees of compromise. And, at this point, that’s what this country needs. Please insert Trump as president for proof of Americans that understood that.
Maybe instead of assuming perspective about those that call you out, stopping long enough to understand that might help in further conversations.
Some hear with the ears, some with their eyes and some with their pockets. Others still hear nothing at all. Be enlightened: The latter category is accepting members. If compelled, I prefer Chocolates in lieu of Flowers.
The Rock
President Trump’s approval rating reached 52% on Monday following the State of the Union Address last Tuesday.
I will try and respond to as much as I can.
Justin, this is meant sincerely, I am sorry for your work challenges today. I have faced that myself and know the drain it is on financial, spiritual and emotional health. I also mean this sincerely, you seem to not be shy about working hard so I bet you will end up in a better place. You know you will, because your Faith tells you it is His plan. Please accept this as genuine, it is not intended to have you think differently of me, nor will I back away from defending what I have come to believe. Prayer sent your way.
Jeff, I am no socialist either. It is obvious after interacting with you on numerous posts and reading the totality of your participation here that Chris has called it right. You are intolerant of anyone who thinks differently than you and so out of ignorance must place them in some neat wrapper, like they are a socialist, to feel good about your own extremely biased view of the world.
Yes, I voted for Bush, twice. Both of them twice. Would do it again in the same circumstances. Rove was part of the deal with Bush for awhile. I accepted that. I also called him a moron the night of the election when FOX finally had to take him off the air because he would not accept a Romney defeat. Rove, Bush, and all the other EGOPers, socialists, etc. (insert all names I missed) as well as every human being including Trump get some things right, and some things wrong. Only a puppet continues to call them all one way as you do with Trump. Only people who have a motivation/agenda or folks too ignorant to think for themselves believe any one person is superior in all they do.
It is multiple sources saying trump will face a challenge due to his behavior. It is multiple sources that say he is having a more difficult time getting excellent people in key positions because of the way he has treated them. You, Justin, slade and others think the best way to move the conservative agenda forward is with some adversarial in your face, take no prisoner attitude. There are some of us who think this will do more damage to the conservative agenda, and our culture, in the long run than it will help in the short run. Evidently, so do a growing number of people.
You are all being challenged right here, right now. Enumerate what part of the conservative agenda have we rejected? Conservative judges? Markets? Gun rights? Free Speech? Freedom of Religion? Which one? None, you are nothing but deceivers, and if done with malice, nothing but liars.
It is not the agenda, it is the tactics. I refuse to accept trump as some god. His past is an accounting of his character, and tells me I would be thrown under the same bus he has thrown many others under. A real man treats his wife with more respect. If a man fails to do that, he will come up short with everyone else, it is just a matter of time.
He is infinity times better for this nation than Hillary, both in the short and long run. But that does not make him palatable by any stretch. We get what we deserve. I am tired of so many good people here giving the guy a free pass, disavowing what they have stood for their entire lives just because of why? I really don't understand it. I accept he is better than the alternative, I don't accept he is setting this nation up for conservative long run success. Read what is going on, the tide is turning, opinion is changing against him. He is too narcistic to recognize it himself, and my bet is he will not listen to his advisors for any length of time that helped him soften his tone at the SOTU. He will resort to the only thing he knows, attack.
If common decency, willingness to accept other view points, courteous behavior, loyalty and faithfulness to wife and family are traits of socialists/communists today in your eyes, then yes I must be one. A return to Constitutional framework is great, but as I stated in previous posts, the 3 branches and their checks and balances are exactly what our FF established with this Republic. We need to win by working within the system, by winning the hearts and minds that conservative thinking is superior for all. Packaging counts as much as the message, that is simply a fact!
For you...
Please answer my question. You accuse me of attacking you. I have.
You asked me to try and understand why I get called out. I am.
Answering my question will help with that. Who exactly have I said we should mimic, and what exactly did I say we should mimic? You avoided answering that question.
We both know why, I never said anything like what you have accused me of. When someone is dishonest towards me or about me, whether intentional or mistaken, I take the gloves of. I give them a chance to admit their accusation(s) was in error. You fail to either prove I said anything, or admit your error. I extend you no respect for that.
Now, I will give you an example that I have never said here. I do think we should look into Singapore's Health Care System to see if it has any merit. Obviously it is just a starting point to me. I do believe in Universal Access to health care for all US citizens. I believe it must be market driven. I do not recognize this as a Constitutional Right, but rather a moral imperative for a nation that has been so blest. I will leave it to slade to post the percentage of Americans supporting some form of health care coverage for all.
Yes, I intentionally avoided universal coverage because that is not accurate IMO, and also because of the negative image this arouses.
Maybe this will help you understand how you are seen, and help you with future conversations between us.
Meaning, when you openly oppose a man that operates the same way, with tenacity to uphold his promise to MAGA, you aren’t going to draw favorable results. Based purely on people perspective.
So, while you haven’t named a better place, you seem to oppose most of his black and white approach. Therefore, pick a place. Cause the America we all want is the America he is fighting to get back.
Thank you for the prayers. We need them.
I openly support him, even here when I agree. I have stated here I support his judicial appointments, his tax cuts, his deregulation, his attempts at border security (even the wall and or barrier if that is what his experts determine is the only way), his views on illegal immigration, allowing experimental medicines to be tried before FDA approval by those in terminal conditions, his standing up to China, his improvements in our military weaponry/readiness. I think I have supported him on other issues as well, but can recall posting words on these items. And yes, I realize he is not doing it single handedly, so not wanting to short change his administration, but he deserves more of/most credit as the buck stops with him IMO.
I have also stated when I disagree, like his temperament, and style, his disrespect of his wife and people he fires, his tweets that are antagonistic, or generally his failure to act Presidential.
Some how I thought we cherished that in Americans, the willingness and courage to say what we think? Now, some of us see some of you as nothing more than complete trumpettes who will do anything, say anything, attack anyone who points out something they disagree with. Our system is stronger than that, it can handle the criticism. That is what a free press should do, but instead, trumpettes feel the opposite of what our press does is what must occur. The press attacks him, so everyone else that is not a D must support him unquestionably. I can't Justin, I support the virtue and ideal of FREEDOM, not any one man. I am not a Calvanist for a reason, I don't believe in pre-destiny. I believe our love of God chosen freely is what makes it our greatest gift to Him, and back to us. I will bow to no man, even when I am called despicable names. When trump supports freedom, I support him. When he endangers that goal by allowing our House to go D, and yes he does bear some responsibility, because of his childish self-serving behavior, I will call him on it.
The America we want is not an America I hope where we disparage people constantly, cheat on people including our spouses, change parties like underwear whenever it suites us, file multiple bankruptcies, hire illegals while lecturing others not to, avoid our military obligations etc.
I quote you;
"So, while you haven’t named a better place, you seem to oppose most of his black and white approach. Therefore, pick a place. Cause the America we all want is the America he is fighting to get back. "
You said "seemed to oppose most..." That is obviously an inaccurate statement. Maybe you do not read closely enough what others write Justin. But, I believe you are obligated to make accurate accusations if you post them publicly. That is why we have had many conflicts. This is what I see you do, make accusations without any credibility attached to them. Your quote now admits I did not do what you accused me of, minus an apology. And yes, I expect more from you.
BTW, building is booming again in our metro area.
Another prayer sent.
Habitat for Wildlife's Link
How many openly ridiculed Obama for just being Obama?
So, is this a forum where we all have to agree, and if we don't we are communists? That is laughable, I hope you agree.
Slade,
Article attached. Read closely. Trump's approval rating was the lowest so far in January, lowest even amongst Republicans. Yes, his approval jumped up dramatically after SOTU. He changed tactics and style. Thanks for making the point that people are sending a message, change or else.
Make my "presidential" medium rare if you would be so kind. I have never had table fare as delicious that was economically rooted in the character of a president.
The beloved presidential John Kennedy, the king of the one liners of patriotism that sent chills down the spines of every American and whore master of the stars and the underworld.
Now tell me again about Donald Trump and that which you disapprove on a full stomach.
The Rock
Please go back to your writing style that was direct.
I outlined my disagreement clearly.
It is my view. Held by many others. I believe in results, not trying. On to 2020.
Appeasement quislings not needed...............
No, I don't love Trump.
Yes, I love the conservative victories he is racking up.
I am not satisfied to rest on those laurels. Changing style, tactics and tone will secure more victories, IMO.
I have asked if you are part of his administration. Your tone seems less confrontational. Not a coincidence is it?
We are all practical when it concerns ourselves and idealists when it concerns others.
What is it you expect from Trump? A president that has produced for the nation is not enough? You need a altar boy and one who speaks as you would, if president?
How did that waste zero perform for the country who was deemed so presidential? A real class act sneaking in tax payers CASH on skids in the middle of the night to a rogue regime. Count your blessing that God Himself delivered a Trump to this nation when the opposite was all but a guarantee. You believe in God Frank. Why did you think that would be?
The Rock
Lol is right.
Are the two mutually exclusive Rock? If so, please explain why.