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Colleges Soon to be a Distant Memory?
Change my mind....
With YouTube and internet why not take your government test in your field and go right to work?
We already know higher education is changing dramatically. Degrees awarded based on credit hours earned in a specific content area will be replaced by testing that awards levels based on demonstrated mastery. Tests can be taken by anyone.
Diploma Mills brought this upon ourselves. Employers demand proof of what a person truly knows today
Absolutely, when I say test, I am not talking just knowledge based.
To demonstrate mastery measurements may be knowledge, performance, or written performance based or a combination of all.
All depends on the learning objective measured according to domain and learning level that would be performed on the job.
That seems to be a problem currently and why the degree factories provide no return on investment to employers.
I know you know this just throwing it out there as basis for discussion....
Back in my day you didn't need a college education to get a good job. The jobs depended on what you could do. I had a high school education. I won a 4 year scholarship to my choice of 14 colleges and turned it down because I was going to spend my career in the Navy. Waited until Fall to enroll and passed the physical. Then they did a hearing test and found I was deaf in my left ear. That was the end of my military career. Went to work for a chemical company at $1.67 per hour. Made shift leader in about six months and Foreman in two years or so. Then supervisor, next manager. The engineers reported to me. I interviewed and hired engineers. When the plant manager was on vacation or out of town I was the acting plant manager. The company gave me an chemical engineering degree to work outside the USA where the contract said only chemical engineers could work at those plants.
Now that would be impossible but I found if you work hard you can do amazing things. I also won the only discrimination law suits the company ever won. The company lawyer told me not to worry, we would have to pay back wages and hire back the black guy I fired. In court the judge asked is anyone had any comments. I looked back and there were several black workers. They said I had always treated them fairly and was not the slightest bit racist. The judge said, "Case dismissed." Treat people right and you should be fine was my motto. Probably not true in this day and age.
A degree only means focused training on your own dime and deferred earnings. Sometimes those without degrees humor those with them to make them feel special, important, or to play politics in their favor with plausible deniability.
The playing field is becoming more level with the availability of online degrees rather than a complete relocate. With employer tuition reimbursement, focused training is both an incentive to gain and with a return on investment.
I have seen some boast that they have degreed professionals reporting to them when they themselves do not have the same education. Those supervisors and managers are usually there because of a good 'ol boy system and clearly not there on merit or hard work.
"Those supervisors and managers are usually there because of a good 'ol boy system and clearly not there on merit or hard work."
And you would be wrong. I was manager of an automation design/build group. I had degreed engineers, both mechanical and electrical along with several machine designers and five toolmakers/machine builders. I EARNED my position. I was responsible for ALL equipment, tooling and fixture design as well as procurement of outside automation. These typically were large capital projects in the $5M-20M range. When the VP of the company selected me for the position, I raised some objections based on the lack of a 4 year degree. His response was, "You are highly respected here, by both employees and managers. You know automation, machining, procurement, how to manage projects and people, how to deal with outside vendors. You present yourself well here and in front of our customers. Don't worry about the degree. No one else is."
That is impressive bowbender. My brother also made it to the top tier in the corporate world, with only 1 year of college.
You both are proof soft skills are much more important than classroom knowledge.
Congrats. Even if I had the skills, and I don't, I just do not relish the pressure. Glad we have folks like you, thanks!
You possess skills and obviously have great aptitude and work ethic Bow. You are the type that built America into the great nation it is and we need more like you.
For most today my view is unless you are one of the few who have connections where you can walk in and start with a company learning from the bottom up and work your way into a good paying job (construction or excavation for example) you have two good choices right out of high school. College, or the military. College is not what it once was but it's end is not near. A degree is nice, but you still need the aptitude. You still need the work ethic. My son is a geologist. I don't think there are any geologists, at least very few, who don't have a degree in geology or related field. It is a highly competitive field. The more you have to offer an employer in this field or any other the better chances you have for a good job. He now has some experience, and is in demand. He has aptitude. He has work ethic. He would not have gotten that first job without that degree.
It is simple really. Many professions in a given state require that a degree be attained to be licensed, thus I don't see it going away. There aren't many states out there reducing regulations and many are adding.
"And you would be wrong."
Actually, I'm not. Go back and read what I really posted with the intent to understand instead of the intent to just rebut. I would expect an upper manager with soft skills and an understnading of training and development of persoanel to do that...
For what it's worth all the people I know that you could describe as "doing very well" had little college but one hell of a work ethic. College...If you come out broke then you didn't learn much, did you?
What is broke? Do you mean in debt for your education? How many people are "broke" within 5 years of leaving high school and 5 years later are still making about the same kind of money with little chance of advancement? Work ethic and aptitude. With or without a college degree are king.
In many professions you can not even get a start without that degree
I agree with Trax on this one. A college degree is required for all positions in my company. You're not even considered if you don't have the degree. Once you get in it is work ethic and aptitude if you want to advance. There are plenty of jobs out there that do not require a degree and...you guessed it...it is work ethic and aptitude if you want to advance.
These days you will be considered an above average employee if you just do what you are told and meet your schedule because so many employees out there don't. Just outwork the person standing next to you and you should always have job.
Learning pretty much all of Medicine's fields requires hands-on education. You may be able to get an education in liberal arts without a U, but the sciences require rubber hitting the pavement.
In my field of civil engineering a degree is almost 100% required. It's very difficult to get a professional engineers license even if you are educated abroad or from a non-ABET accredited school in the US. There are some really good engineers that don't get licensed, but it really limits your career mobility. Many engineering discipline don't even require licensure which is scary and irresponsible if you ask me. The "engineer" on the deep water horizon oil spill wasn't an engineer. I think a lot of very successful business owners, don't have degrees and don't care.
I want my doctor to have skipped college - 8^)
I also cannot see most of the science fields progressing without college.
How many colleges now are $70,000/year?
The most overused non-word of 2019 already on the CF...”terd.” Good grief.
What did they call the bottom turd of the class in med school?
College degrees are not going away. I do however wish that people who are wasting money on a recreation degree and then getting a job for a local industry making widgets would consider a trade school or something similar or just start working out of high school until you can work yourself into a good job. Not all people are cut out for college and their career desires often mean college is a waste. If you are someone looking to advance in any field, you have a leg up on anyone competing with you if you have a degree. If you are the guy content to earn an honest living and work a 9-5, never wanting any responsibility....don't waste a dime on college.
When Socialism takes root children will be trained for their job in society only and your wish will come true....
I just hope it is well past my lifetime.
The way Colleges teach is definitely changing already they will adapt or dissolve.
A lot of money gets wasted on college degrees. In turn, a lot of money gets made by people that posses them. It all depends on the field it is in.
I’ve noticed those who don’t have degrees are usually the ones who think they are a waste, and vice versa.
My degree provided opportunities I would have never gotten without it.
I agree, but I have a degree and some degrees for some people are a waste. Mine has been vital to me advancing in my career yet some are nothing more than poor financial choices. It all depends on how it is applied and the person holding it and their aspirations.
Got mine later in life. It was helpful personally and professionally but much of it was check the block. I am a tactile learner more than death by PowerPoint.
What WV mountaineer said. It depend on the degree. Get one in Chemical engineering, or agronomy, or other science/math degree and you can get a great entry level career start. How you perform in that will determine your long term growth and success. Get a woman studies or sociology bachelors degree, and “welcome to Starbucks, what can I get you” And career potential is nearly zero. The point about soft skills is very important. I finished a 39 year career with a very large corporation. I started at entry level. I saw numerous others start at that level but with poor soft skills. Most had the attitude “ I have a college degree and I’m better than the rest of you ( laborers). Almost all of them washed out in less than three years. I was of average intelligence, with a strong work ethic, and the ability to relate to the rank and file laborer, to the CEO. I ended up in executive management. College degrees are not going away. Spending $25-75000 in annual tuition might go away, med school excluded.