nijimasu's Link
I'm glad my daughters think the likes of AOC, HRC, and BS are all a bunch of morons. You can blame their mother for that - she voted for Trump because the other side is a bunch of dummies.
You give them your biased view and they rebel as teenagers when they feel you manipulated them.
Look at that Westover girl.
She thought she was misinformed and rebelled then she found out she could make a buck off it.
Peer pressure can be a factor as well. You can tell Westover didn't like being considered a country bumpkin so she tried to fit in with her peers, being filled with the propaganda they get from professors and the media.
Social Justice Theory stuff didn't stick with me because I was older and could critically think. Not necessarily so with public school raised chillern unless the parents parent....
Those things are long gone.
He77 Trump Supporters are good with Red Flag laws that put those evil guns and owners even more in the shadows. They think guns are the problem and they only drive gun owners further underground and make guns easier to ban. All in the name of safety.
People freak out at seeing a gun in public in the country now days. A guy open carried to eat breakfast during the center fire hunt season with his .460 across his chest and two tables were talking about how crazy it was to see. Freakin' Lebanon, Missouri. Supposed Redneck land.
Hardly even see a Buck knife on anyone's hip anymore. It is sad.....
Az education is rank 47 in the nation, I have a DS daughter in special ed class and it was a joke, it set her back. Had to move back to the mid-west and she got back to her level and graduated. My brother is living in Az and had to move his son to a private school to advance his level of education.
Graduated from a rural/country school K-12, the generation of slide rule, the school closed in 72 but many of the kids that went there went on to successful professional and skill trades jobs. The school was just base on the strong 3Rs, reading, writing and arithmetic.
An neighbor/friend and hunting companion retired from teaching 2nd grade for 27 yrs and we were sitting in a duck blind and he complained that with a MA teaching degree he was only making $67K and I respond that isn't bad income for working part-time and just think if you were working full-time it would be $100K. His state retirement package is very good to others that spent 30 yrs in the private sector.
Teachers are very important but the bad ones should be let go and keep throwing money to get bad results is not the answer either. We just had a Muti-million dollar school referendum pass last year that narrowly pass and was defeated 2 yrs prior and of course our property tax jumped $400 more and the increase of the kids education standards keeps falling. Nice new school buildings but negative results are coming out from it.
School leaders then blasted an email out to students declaring that, “hate has no home on our campus.”
slade's Link
Collectivism (certainly to include socialism) is nothing more than a caste system of the most destructive and murderous variety. Pathologically anti-human, imo.
"open carry is for idiots." - SA, I wouldn't go that far but I would say the practice, itself, is rather idiotic. :) I'll open carry in the field where it is practical but not in public. And while I must admit I do like seeing my fellow citizens open carry, I just don't get why they would.
They have their own Theories.
Like JTV and his Ilk would be critical theorists creating "truths" like red flag laws they accept as natural and right. Then their belief hurts them when their guns are confiscated.
The postmodernists like YFP question the validity that everyone has an equal chance to succeed depending on whether they are a feminist pedagogist, a critical race theorist, or a queer theorist.
Then of course you have just your run-of-the-mill humanist.....;^)
Some of them are actually very good teachers, but always on the lookout for ways to steer both students and younger teachers into the leftist camp.
I think that many people have been in education so long that they don't even realize how their opinions have been bent toward the left over time.
No kidding HA, some even think they are conservitives.............
I believe narrow minded, rigid individuals do see others whose views evolve as they gain knowledge and experience as having moved left is an accurate statement. Some of them probably disagreed with women suffrage and other social advances.
I also think folks who find justification for the behavior we see on frequent display from Trump who have professed their belief in values as hypocrites.
At my school, the younger professors new to the school have been less likely to join the FA than the ones who have been in the FA for decades. I am not a member. But, they have on occasion defended a faculty member whose only offense was to disagree with management. When they protect free speech, even speech I disagree with, I support them in spirit.
Slade, this is the second time I have asked you. Please list what you think I believe in that is not conservative. This should be easy to do for someone as critical as you are.
My guess is like Kyle has stated, you are incapable of a two way discussion. You are an emotional teenager capable of name calling but not backing anything up unless it is information you found on-line.
Like you mentioned about opinions....
If I am a Trumpette who acquires new information that outweighs my dissonant beliefs and I accept new beliefs could I evolve into a rational person?
I know everyone posting has experience within the education system. Yet, sound bites and talking points used by both sides for political expediency rules the day.
I have found life on my college campus to mirror at times what many conservatives think, and at other times to be completely at odds with those same thoughts. Education mimics life in general. Life is more complex than sound bites that are sold to the masses.
If you remember the post I made a week or so ago about the liberal professor's presentation on environmentalism/conservation. I attended expecting to find myself challenging a left leaning slant, and left pleasantly surprised.
I post this as I get ready to go to work. An ongoing issue on campus compelled me to write the harshest criticism I ever have towards our FA. Posted right before leaving yesterday, on our listserv, which is our campus wide email which includes all personnel from the board on down, will draw both praise and condemnation across campus. Numerous faculty, as has been my experience before, will pm their support.
Again, campus life is a microcosm of society at large, not some plot to have kids become socialists. At least that is my experience. I am sure some of my colleagues would accuse me of brainwashing kids into becoming capitalist pigs.
I wrote a stinging critique, being eligible for retirement, and having enjoyed my 60th birthday this past Friday, I felt no need to hold back.
The reaction will be the same as here, some agreeing, some not. The way campus life should be IMHO. Free exchange of opinions, students being exposed to all philosophies and deciding on their own what they subscribe to. And that is what I have observed for 28 years.
If my views don't win over, then I must not be as good as a sales person as the other side. This site is great practice for battle. Thanks!
Every member has the legal right to ask for a refund of their dues that go to political activities. They are obligated to refund the money.
I forced this on our campus, refunds are given every year.
Thanks for all that you do, and thanks to the rest of the excellent teachers out there!
Yesterday on campus might have been a tough day if it were not for my experience in the classroom. Kevin, this happens EVERY semester. I point you out because in our heated exchanges you have expressed your opinion that I can't tell people what to think like I do my students. Those types of statements sell well here, and you know they are effective, yet they portray a picture that is without any merit. Let me give you an example of a classroom exchange yesterday.
In my Intro to Business class, a chapter on economics covers the structures from Communism to Capitalism. I am an ardent free market capitalist, do not try to hide it, and am well known for it. After presenting the chapter a very bright 21 year old female stated it was obvious I was in favor of capitalism. I said yes, and defended my reasons such as better living standards with hard comparative data. She stated that she took economics with Dan O. last semester, and he had a different view. Dan offices right across from me, I was instrumental in him having been hired. We are well known for having some great debates that are always civil.
The student asked what my response would be to Dan, who is highly popular because of his passionate style.
My response was simply "Dan is wrong, and I am right". Believe it or not I have a reputation for a sense of humor. The class laughed, loud at first, more nervously as they realized I meant what I said. I betrayed nothing of my inner feelings, stating this matter of factly. She probed further, ah, the learning begins.
I stated I absolutely think I am right, and so does Dan. That all of them must listen to both sides. That is what college is about, they hear opposing views, but in the end they must decide for themselves. They must seek out professors they know think differently than they do because if you can still defend what you believe after an honest critique, then you can take more comfort that you are on solid ground.
I tell them I support markets, maybe that is because as a white heterosexual Christian male with no physical/mental challenges and with parents who emphasized education the markets were fair to me. That has been my experience, others may have different experiences allowing them to draw a different conclusion than I have. I do let them know that I worked hard and did my part, and I believe that markets will allow for the same results for just about everyone if they are willing to make the necessary sacrifices and accept responsibility, even people with a much different back ground than myself. I acknowledge that markets are not perfect, but nothing is. I tell them to google the Heritage Foundation's annual ranking of countries and look to see if there is a correlation between free economies and political structures and economic success. Where do they want to live? Then google the communist sites Dan will give them, more laughter.
Some are frustrated as they want to be told what to think. I tell them if that happens in any class they need to go to the Dean. We are there to help them learn critical thinking skills, to learn how to search for information, how to analyze that information. Their job is to use that information pursuing what they have concluded is the truth.
It is always a great class, most students nodding in approval. Several followed behind me as I left for my office. They wanted to see if Dan was in his, he was. They wanted the debate to continue. Sure enough, Dan told them he was right. Dan also made an inside joke. Having convinced Dan to use Gregory Mankiw's text instead of the Keynesian McConnel one most popular on campuses, he said in front of the kids that Mankiw had named his dog Keynes. I immediately responded it was his wife's dog, one he didn't like much. The kids loved it, they walked away still talking about what was best and when government should get involved. Made my day, made it tough to bang out that letter mentioned above, probably why it was the last thing I did.
I see this all across our campus. I know it does not fit the narrative of talking point, googling pretend conservatives, but those are the facts jack.
Peace and love to all of you:) (My liberal side showing, lol.)
I receive the occasional student complaint about one of my faculty. So far, they have ended with me. Every student registrating a complaint is advised of the steps, and given their contact information.
Each semester at least a few complaints from across campus make it all the way up.
If a teacher is doing their role properly and with respect, complaints rarely happen. Kevin, I am not trying to argue with you, but times have changed. In today's world students like everyone else have recourse and have been taught to not fear using it. Your view of me, or any college teacher, being a dictator is absolutely inaccurate. I have many non-traditional students, they certainly do not accept professors who do not respect different views.
Again, that stuff sells well here, but it's just not the case. I have zero reason to lie to you.
I agree whole heartedly with your view about parental and student responsibility being absolutely critical. Nice to agree!
I might agree, or not, about equitable political idealogy being present. Most faculty members I could not state for certainty unless they are in my department, or through open actions it has become obvious. I have been surprised at the number of conservatives, especially concealed carry types. I have occasionally been surprised by a business professor with private sector experience who is liberal. I caution popular assumptions in this area.
Education background probably does lend oneself to be more open minded, critical thinking demands it IMHO. Some conservatives will always judge this as liberal.
In the economics department, a subject prone to political influence and discourse, as people retire we have tried to maintain the left versus right balance. It is just good business in keeping enrollment high. I was recently told by the chair of another behavioral science department that they do the same.
Being on the inside really let's one see the inner workings. I agree there probably are more liberals present, and the most liberal and political appear to try for positions in the FA. Our administrators lean more right, which keeps tensions always present.
Anyone who says it is a balanced system is judging from a biased viewpoint. There are enclaves of reason, but overall there is zero doubt of the leftist leanings of the education system.
A primary objective of the education system is to maintain its control of the future of the children of America. If the true desire was to help children gain the information and learn the skills necessary to succeed and thrive in America they would not so vehemently oppose any non-government system of K-12 education. When the poorest children are given opportunities to attend alternative schools, they often thrive, but the NEA opposes and kills these programs with a vehemence that rivals their defense of abortion.
Parents for the most part don't pay attention to what happens at school as long as the kid doesn't complain and the parent isn't inconvenienced. People who want to use the education system to further their agenda has taken advantage of this fact.
I know for a fact that it is very difficult for a parent to know what their kids are taught at school. Even working in the same building where my kids attended, I was mostly unaware of what went on in their classrooms unless they chose to tell me.
A generation or two ago, parents would have been shocked and stopped the leftist teachings had they known what was going on, but today's parents have been taught to tolerate and even celebrate leftist thought so the decline to the left is accelerating.
Again, individual teachers often do not agree with the leftist agenda. Many are honestly trying to teach appropriately. However, the institutional inertia is against them.
Most people never realize that they are spinning around at about 1000 MPH because of their frame of reference. Many people in our society (not just in education) are unaware that society is declining to the left at a high rate of speed because of their left-moving frame of reference.
Your opinion is yours to have. What is inaccurate is the belief we teachers are completely in charge.
Look at what Henry wrote. Teachers may want to do it right, but the system...
Which is it guys?
Henry, I support all alternative forms of competition, include at home. The private model has some successes, and failures. Education and indoctrination are different, hopefully we focus on the former.
There is inherent bias in that.
During WWII did we want teachers giving equal time to all political and financial philosophies?
Do we give equal time to the constitution and those who want to ignore it?
I'm afraid I just don't understand where you're going with "inherent bias" being a result of "without bias."
Something to think about since you are a teacher out west. If it is true in KS that most schools teach liberal principals then why does the western 3/4 of Kansas always vote republican. Are students possibly hearing liberal principals and rejecting them. Or is it that their family political leanings overcome the liberal "trance" that teachers put students in. Or do they not vote once they exit public school or possibly just move to the city. The voting data doesn't seem to jive with your personal experience. My guess is that HFW assumption is pretty close to the actual and that the views of teachers reflect the general population which is a mix of conservative and liberal teachers/points of views.
KSflatlander's Link
Some are lazy, some just want a paycheck, some are stellar as well.
The theories I mentioned above are from college textbooks.
We have witnessed in the press teachers who indoctrinate and elective classes that are "out there".
The question should be what do the students believe as much as possible but teachers like anyone else don't check their perceptions when their passionate about things.
Students should be asked questions from different perspectives that allows them to discover for themselves.
But people saying their socialist overall just shows their own bias.
However, I don't think your example really fits the discussion; more appropriate would be a comparison of the attitudes and actions of Americans during the divided pre-war years, and how their one-sided (or conversely, critical) educations precipitated their actions- I'm talking about the American capitalist institutions and their decision makers that either chose to continue or discontinue making money off the Nazis as Nazi deeds in Europe became known to the US. Now that's a topic that would require all "viewpoints" to be represented, and as well as strong critical abilities- before a valid opinion could be settled upon.
In high school I was taught about multiple government and economic systems. I was also taught why our republic was the best form of government and why capitalism is superior to any form of socialism. I was taught that economic freedom leads to prosperity and and suppressive governments lead to poverty and loss of freedom.
KSflatlander's Link
By STANLEY KURTZ October 13, 2017 8:40 PM A disturbing report from FIRE (Foundation for Individual Rights in Education) describes the shout-down of California Attorney General, Xavier Becerra and California State Assembly Leader Ian Calderon by Pro-Trump, MAGA hat-wearing protesters. Disruptors shouted slogans like: “Build that wall,” “lock him up,” “respect our president,” and “American first.” Becerra’s question and answer session with Calderon was severely disturbed and cut short as a result.
Good job, you get it! Gerrard, your teachers would be proud of your critical thinking skills and your ability to find the hole in an opposing argument. Were you educated in a parochial school;)
Here are some facts that are needed instead of the indoctrination some are attempting.
Kevin, curriculum has to be approved. Every professor teaching the same course has an Outline and Course Objectives that are approved through their Divisional Curriculum Committee and then through the school's Educational Affairs Committee. The college receives oversight from the state (Board of Regents) and the Feds (Higher Learning Commission).
The professor's syllabi must include the approved outline and objectives. The syllabus is in essence a contract that must be adhered to. Teachers do not get to pick and choose, they are required to teach the same material. If they do not, they will be held responsible. This is one of our common complaints, teachers not fulfilling their obligations. Students will win this complaint every time if proven the professor was negligent in their responsibilities. I know you don't like me, but these are the facts contrary to what you want to convince everyone of. We are not dictators or in complete control of what goes on in the classroom, nor should we be when we accept taxpayer funding, IMHO.
So, Dan and I have to teach the same material, and we do. My bias and faith in markets comes through, his bias in socialism shines through. But both of us taught all structures as required.
It is tough as a professional educator to have another educator point out everyone else's biases with no recognition of their own. Henry, everyone of us is biased. We are the product of our genetics, environment, experiences etc. The more I read what you post the more concerned I have become. You appear to lack respect for viewpoints other than your own, that the way you see the world is the absolute truth. That is scary, especially coming from an educator!
Rigid, narrow mindedness prevents people from learning and growing. I am glad folks were open minded enough to see slavery as wrong, and advancing causes like Equal Rights for women and blacks etc. I continue to read the science links posted here and elsewhere that may allow all of us to better understand that certain behaviors accepted or condemned today will be reconsidered as knowledge is gained. That does not mean positions should or will change as new information is gleaned, but I hold firmly that man must seek the truth, we are obligated to.
Thanks for a solid discussion, and to all of you that posted, whether we agreed or not, I sincerely appreciate that you show concern for what is taking place in education today.
There are things that are a matter of opinion and can be discussed. There are things that are not a matter of opinion and cannot be compromised. Once you move from an absolute standard, then there is no standard - which is how the left and all other anti-moral philosophies operate.
For the US, the constitution is the absolute standard. The push for a "living constitution" is actually a move to have no standard except whatever the current power structure wishes. Anti-constitution thinking is rampant on the left and among left sympathizers in the education system, most units of government, and popular culture.
The same applies for moral standards and matters of eternity. Unless the Bible is the standard, there is no standard. As I have stated previously, I was not hired to teach religion so I didn't. However, the left (among others) is doing everything to convince people that there is no absolute moral code which makes what is defined as sin in the Bible just a choice to be accepted (and financed) by everyone. If anyone disagrees they "lack respect for viewpoints." When you start with the premise that all "opinions" have equal value, you by definition have already given up all pretense of having a standard by which to judge right and wrong.
The more I see your lack of an immutable standard the less I am inclined to listen to your opinion.
I not only do not listen to yours, I mock it for the close minded ignorance you display.
You do exactly what you accuse others of, adjusting your standards when necessary, as in the case with Trump's behavior.
Where did I say opinions are of equal value? Thou shot not... I teach what I agreed to upon accepting the job and continuing to receive remuneration for. If you did otherwise, you lacked integrity.
The Constitution has been amended from the original, per the means our FF established. Will most likely be again in the future. Does amended mean living to you? Or is that a conservative talking point?
I believe in the 10 Commandments. I also believe others have the right not to believe, as have many before us. 9 wise men said that is what our FF meant as well. But you are wiser? Your way or no way?
Take an ethics course sometime, and save the judgment for Him. You fail at it.
Was it those Covington students?
Just the opposite, but nice try. You stated above that...
" There are things that are not a matter of opinion and cannot be compromised. Once you move from an absolute standard, then there is no standard - which is how the left and all other anti-moral philosophies operate. "
What are your Absolute standards? Yes, you are a very rigid person IMO Henry who thinks your way is right. Many people disagree with me. Like Dan! He should be in the classroom because he is tolerant! You are not. You claim to show great critical thinking skills but your logic was dismantled above so easily. And with me you claim I believe you should not be in the classroom because you disagree with me, when the real facts are it has to do with you being intolerant. The exchange between Dan and myself show the collegial way I deal with people open enough to see other viewpoints and claim few absolute standards on anything. You think about it. Anybody even slightly left of your absolute standards is a socialist. Please see my response to Kevin, below.
You said;
"So are we to assume that when you took the job, you agreed to teach that capitalism was superior, but when Dan O. took the job he agreed to teach that socialism was superior? That’s odd. "
Where did I say, or imply I would teach one was superior/inferior? I did not. Again, we both teach all structures, our opinions and biases come through because every human has them. Students, given a professor who will allow student engagement, will typically ask what our view is. Answers are appropriate. Mine will be along the lines of "here is what I believe... here is what those that disagree with me would say..."
Unlike Henry, we do not discuss absolutes. In the 70s, 80s 90s during Japan's rise, many took at look at their model of cooperation between government, business and labor and studied if that approach was superior to the American model. Theory Z management was a by-product. China's approach has more recently been studied to see if there is anything to glean from them.
Unlike Henry with an education background in science, there are folks who dedicate their lives out there who study issues such as economic structure because they are willing to question absolutes in the name of increased efficiency or performance. Kudos to them. I assume they know more than me. Correct that, I don't assume, they do know more than me. I assume they always will. I am no genius. What I am is someone who will call BS on absolutes, in the name of advancing knowledge. You have it reversed, Henry is the one who believes his thinking is superior and does not need to be challenged. I want, desire, seek, encourage being challenged. I will defend passionately what I believe, but as I gain new knowledge only a fool will remain with something inferior. I am not that guy. I do not believe educators play any more important role than anyone else. I do believe they ought to be on average better at encouraging students to ask, to wonder, to seek out new knowledge...
Hope that helps.
"So are we to assume that when you took the job, you agreed to teach that capitalism was superior, but when Dan O. took the job he agreed to teach that socialism was superior? That’s odd."
Where does any of the above refer to what I agreed to when I took the job. It does not. I agreed to teach all the requirements, and we both do. I also agreed, implied, I am a human with biases. None of what you posted above even defends your position, just your typical and very predictable pattern of being obtuse for argument's sake.
And predictably, your next response will be more play on words because you are too insecure to admit you don't know squat about teaching but will pretend you do.
How many of these students can name off the rights listed in the bill of rights? How many of those rights do they understand as in their function and legal meaning? Why not? Because if it's touched on at all in school now.... it's brushed up against because somebody makes them.... not taught, much less studied. It's simply a reading exorcise and honestly... the Constitution doesn't read like the Grapes of Wrath...... and honestly I'm not sure even how many teachers are currently qualified to teach it.
The education system went south when the liberal leftists running it basically eliminated civics. And began "evolving" history. A great many in college cannot even tell you the three branches of government... the differences in the House and Senate and how they were originally envisioned. Nor even the difference between a democracy and a republic. They make up their own definitions of "fascist" and "dictator", much less nazi. Clueless as to the terms other than they think they are derogatory and to be used as "ultimate" insults.
Physics, math, the sciences.... more firmly grounded in facts, not 100% but mostly it would seem. "Social" science..... not so much. But that math major still might not have a clue as to what the 3 branches of government are or where his rights come from (hint: not "granted" from the government, but restrictions ON government)
Removing that from education is the foundation of liberal leftist indoctrination. The promotion of Moral Equivalency as a replacement foundation for a Constitutional one. Social Justice and Special Interest groups and Identity Politics (victims) replacing individual rights and responsibilities.
So what is it that you suggest? All public schools to only teach conservative principals? To only hire "conservative" teachers? That all public schools should be right leaning?
This is how @SenFeinstein reacted to children asking her to support the #GreenNewDeal resolution -- with smugness + disrespect.
— Sunrise Movement ?? (@sunrisemvmt) February 22, 2019
This is a fight for our generation's survival. Her reaction is why young people desperately want new leadership in Congress. pic.twitter.com/0zAkaxruMI
“OH MY GOD THE MAGA PEOPLE ON UC BERKELEY CAMPUS YESTERDAY GOT PUNCHED IN THE FACE BY SOMEONE THIS MAKES ME FEEL EMOTIONALLY SO MUCH BETTER. Thank you so much random stranger for not letting it go unchallenged. Hope you aren’t in too much trouble,” the tweet read, “Fuck you, Turning Point USA.” ""
The fact this was even considered is beyound ridickulus ....
You need to be sad for yourself. You speak of moral absolutes, yet remain silent on adultery. You are lost.
Kevin, yes, the thread is here. You tried to claim something that is just false. Instead of manning up, you chose to play wordsmith again. It gets sadder everytime.
The freedom you miss is our ability to exercise freedom of thought. You would take that away with a society you envision where we must all think the same.
That is called fundamentalist extremism. No thanks.
Your original claim that I can get away with something with my students that I cannot on the CF I proved patently false. And is verifiable.
Instead of being willing to learn and accept your assumption was wrong, you began your predictable parsing of words.
You can call it what you want Kevin, but it is a lack of integrity from my perspective. You know that yourself, but think if you keep spinning you can get away with not doing what a real man would-admit they were wrong.
I did not even read after your first sentence, and will not read any further responses from you. It is sad folks like you who pretend to know so much cannot see their total lack of consistency in their values.
Kevin, you want to argue for the sake of arguing. The facts are very simple;
Teachers cannot control the process, we do not have any supreme powers. All teachers are biased. The honest ones are open about their biases and encourage students to seek out competing information.
I will let you continue to parse words.
"Are you suggesting that the president of the school, or the board tells you what and how to teach?"
Kevin,
I wanted to revisit this with all still reading this thread. This is an example of you parsing words for the sake of arguing.
I never suggested anything of the sort, again you know that. But, you make a statement and the go on to argue even though the person never made the statement or suggestion you are arguing about.
Your last post is an example of you taking individual sentences to try and support your argument, while ignoring any that do not. You pick and choose. Again, this is either a lack of integrity or a reading comprehension problem.
Readers here need to see this tactic of yours. It is a pattern, where you pick single statements which when taken out of the totality of what the author was conveying might on surface appear to support your false claims.
Most here will probably recognize that, and going forward I will call you out every time for it.
"You are the ultimate authority inside your little domain, not so much here on the CF."
This is what started the debate between us. It is not any where near being an accurate statement, as proven above. No educator worth their weight in salt believes they are the ultimate authority, except maybe for one here;-)
This is possibly the most disingenuous thing I have seen you post. I'm not sure what you are referring to. As I have stated, I was not hired to teach religion. Had any student (or adult) asked my opinion, I would have told them that "Adultery is sin. That is my personal view because I believe the Bible. However, that is not science, so let's get back to the lesson."
"Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more."
The longer your posts the more you expose yourself. I did not even read it, your words are always more of the same. You make a great liberal spin doctor. By now we all recognize your inability to comprehend and twist words to confuse others. It worked on your children no doubt, but there are adults in this room.
Henry,
If you cannot make the link between your supposed absolute moral standards, and your inability to ever be critical of an individual who vilolates those standards, then your wisdom and understanding of the Bible is weak. You are no different than those you criticize and accuse of "situational morality". You have lost the ability to be self aware because you have convinced yourself that your ability to cite Bible versus makes you superior. We all will be judged as we have judged.
BTW, I possess economic textbooks that go all the way back to my youth. They all offer a contrast and comparison of structures. I wonder why authors that were published way back then did not have the wisdom you do Henry? Or maybe it is just time for you to actually seek knowledge above what you think you know to be right. Challenge yourself, something I am willing to guess you have not done in a long time. Or maybe you can just keep posting memes that helps keep all your truths in a nice, neat little box. Probably works on simpletons, not so much with folks who are a little more worldly.
What do you want me to criticize you for? You should be your own critic and not need me to do it for you.
I noticed you avoided a direct answer on a thread which discussed the age of the Earth. So, I ask you for a direct yes or no.
Is the Earth older, much, much older than 6000 years?
Kevin,
I can sum up your style that everyone needs to watch from here on out.
You make statements such as, "I assume you mean...."
And then go on to attack someone as if your assumption is what they said. And you get away with it.
Only two things explain this, either your reading comprehension skills are very weak at best, or you lack integrity. I think it is the latter, which makes me concerned for the number of people you may have taken advantage of through the years.
If God says it is 6,000 years old then it is, but that is not science.
Could you quote the 6,000 year verse to me or at least give me the reference? Oh wait, Scripture is just a "meme" to you so never mind.
I have not committed adultery. The hero of the CF has. There is no honor ignoring that behavior in Trump while posting your disapproval of anyone thinking left of you. Not watch Netflix but support Trump, ok, sure. That's consistent.
How old is the Earth? You should be able to answer that directly. Saying you believe the Earth is 6000 years old publicly should have no shame if you truly believe in what the Bible tells us. OTH, others may question your scientific scholarship if you do.
This is a dilemma. People can and will disagree. There are both sides really dug in on this. What say you? This is the type of disagreements that are common and why open minded people search.
I have not committed adultery. The hero of the CF has. There is no honor ignoring that behavior in Trump while posting your disapproval of anyone thinking left of you. Not watch Netflix but support Trump, ok, sure. That's consistent.
How old is the Earth? You should be able to answer that directly. Saying you believe the Earth is 6000 years old publicly should have no shame if you truly believe in what the Bible tells us. OTH, others may question your scientific scholarship if you do.
This is a dilemma. People can and will disagree. There are both sides really dug in on this. What say you? This is the type of disagreements that are common and why open minded people search.
Guess we're just not all that "into" you.....
Good grief is right..... back on the Trump rant..... WRT Henry, he has criticized Trump many times, morally and otherwise..... starting years ago in the primaries, That you never saw it, or simply refuse to accept it.... means nothing. So you search out, dredge up really, anything else you can to "expose" someone and justify yourself. It comes off as insecure.
Most of us here are accomplished adults who don't need anyone's approval or affirmation. Much less someone's admonition. Need to learn to leave it at that..... the passive aggressive stuff wears thin pretty fast.
You are not a victim here. The OP was not about you, no matter how much you try to make it about you. It was about the vast majority of the educational system and Academia itself being overwhelmingly liberal/leftist and how they are using their position to push an agenda. And we are told that because they think they are "right" it justifies their actions. Justifies indoctrination of their ideology.
Yes we get it. Not all teachers are SJWs.For that I am grateful. There are exceptions to the rule. But exceptions are just that..... they do not prove the rule as being wrong.
"Did you teach evolution to your students?"
I have covered this many times here. I was hired to teach science - not religion. I taught biology every year and every year my students left the classroom understanding the theory of evolution (or at least adequate opportunity to understand it). They needed to know it to survive college level biology classes.
When students asked if I believed it, I told them that I was created, but that wasn't science. If they wanted to know more, I told them to arrange a meeting outside of school with their parents present and I would answer any questions or explain whatever they wanted explained.
You guys seem to think it is impossible to separate personal beliefs and professional obligations. Leftists tend to have that problem, but I didn't.
I was once chairman of a committee that wanted to ask the school board to change a district policy. I was the only one on the committee who voted against it, but wrote the letter to the board explaining the position of the committee.
The board accepted the recommendation of the committee. The result was as I had predicted, but my duty in that case was not to my opinion, but to use my position on the committee to express their will to the board. The board asked me questions about the position of the committee, but not my personal position. I explained the reasoning of the committee and defended their recommendation from their point of view - not mine.
I have no first hand knowledge of either your sins or the sins of whoever you refer to as "the hero of the CF."
This is the standard for adultery, "But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." The Bible teaches us that there is only one man who ever met that standard, and He died for all of us.
I condone no man's sin (all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God) but am only responsible for my own. Fortunately the One who died paid for my sins and said "Go and sin no more." That part is still a work in progress for me.
Kevin should read that, lol.
I didn't think you would answer the question. Why not Henry? You are not ashamed of your beliefs are you?
I didn't ask what you taught. I asked what you believe. Here's why. If you believe in a young Earth, then as a science teacher that would leave you questioning commonly and widely accepted peer reviewed scientific methodology.
If you believe the Earth is older, then that leaves you questioning the Bible, the Word of God.
My, we have a dilemma don't we? Tough one for absolutes. One leaves you in a quandary about the Bible's accuracy, the other leaves you a paycheck possibly teaching stuff you really don't believe.
I hope all of my critics here are getting the point. College is supposed to teach critical thinking skills because life is not all black and white. To think critically requires exposure to all thoughts bearing reasonable credibility. Yes, even that can be debated.
No TD, this is not about me. It's about the world future generations will inherit. I am a complete nobody who was just blest with just enough back to stand up to extremism, wherever it comes from. To be clear, extremism to me includes folks who believe only certain "facts" should see the light of day. I am not worth dog poop in the scheme of things, but capable of realizing the Galileos of of our history who had the courage to question everything should receive the adoration for man's progress. Not those poor souls who fear stating openly what they believe.
Henry, I didn't think you would answer the question, but I will.
I believe the Earth is very old. I believe scientific evidence supports that.
How I mesh this with my strong Christian faith is I think several variables may be at play. We are created in God's image, so God is rational to me and would not create "fake" evidence. Further, interpretations of the Bible, and even the definition of one day by God's s clock may be different than what we understand. God has and is for eternity, so no need to have a quick history of the Earth, what purpose would that serve? Further, we are told we cannot understand God's wisdom, so either are possible.
Lastly, salvation is through my belief in Jesus, only through Him will I share eternal life with God.
How did I get to this conclusion? Through critical thinking skills developed in excellent schools that taught me to not fear questioning everything. It is only through doing so that I can conclude that Jesus is my route to salvation, not my belief in a young Earth or not.
It would be enlightening to hear your argument for whatever you believe. I believe you will not answer, possibly to some extent for not wanting to open yourself up to criticism.
There was a flood with an ark. The entire Earth was flooded. The Bible doesn't necessarily say an exact age for the Earth. Jesus was a real person who walked the Earth and died to pay for all sins.
We are saved by Grace through Faith. "For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast." I see no place for logic in that. In fact, we are told that faith in God is foolishness to the world. We cannot find God with our brain. He gives us Grace through Faith and that faith comes from Him, not us.
I have stated on multiple occasions that I believe the Bible is 100% accurate, but our understanding of it is not. When Jesus came, it was the religious leaders who fought Him the hardest because He did not fit their preconceived understanding of the Messiah.
"If you believe in a young Earth, then as a science teacher that would leave you questioning commonly and widely accepted peer reviewed scientific methodology."
"capable of realizing the Galileos of of our history who had the courage to question everything should receive the adoration for man's progress."
I'm glad Galileo never questioned "widely accepted peer reviewed scientific methodology."
G certainly questioned the equivalent of today's peer reviewed "doctrine". Like I said, indoctrination is not education.
An "exact age" is not answering whether the Earth is old or not Henry. That may work with the young minds you taught, but not here.
You taught K-12? College is not about memorization, but a major focus on critical thinking. There should be no sacred cows.
And that is the problem right there.
"Our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor" were pledged to some very sacred cows.
"Sadly, and I do mean sadly, in many cases parental guidance is nonexistent...if not worse."
Which has led to K-12 schools increasingly being involved in things that should none of their business - sometimes by law, sometimes by default, sometimes by intent. I worked against it for 39 years.
Time to broaden perspectives.
The problem Henry is folks like you want to determine what the sacred cow is, or where the line should be drawn. So when that line includes not watching Netflix or disengaging from normal society like the Amish, you meet resistance. Thank God for that resistance that occurs by the strong Faith of individuals still clinging to Hope, those that fight back from individuals who only see darkness in everything.
I have walked this Earth for six decades, and I have yet to witness one negative individual who has delivered lasting change that moves us in a better direction. Jesus, our Lord and Savior brought Hope. We should do the same, IMHO.
Really, Frank? Condescend much?
"There should be no sacred cows."
So Communism, which was responsible for the deaths of approx 100,000,000 in the 20th century alone, should be taught with the same veracity and enthusiasm as say, capitalism, because ALL ideas have equal worth?
The difference in goals between K-12 and college are just facts, no condescending. Faculty between the two have different roles to play, no where did I say or imply one is more important. No do I feel one is, FTR. So many assumptions being made...
Communism, all aspects of it should be taught. The tens of millions of direct and indirect deaths need to be part of that picture. How else will future generations know why sane people do not support it. (Yes, I editorialized a little there, please forgive me, a similar bias shows through in my lectures.)
But, a complete picture of American capitalism must be portrayed as well. This includes the phenomenal economic success, but also what roles slavery, robber barons etc. played.
No sacred cows is a corporate expression, I think I first read it in either 'In Search of Excellence' or the follow up 'A Passion for Excellence'. It means only that no topic, idea, suggestion etc is off the table for discussion. It has no implication towards any moral issue.
Great discussion IMO. Thanks.
Judgment is for the Lord.
There is a lot learned here of how educators indoctrinators work in the real world and give credence to their classrooms. ;o)
As a parent, I had my kids bring home all of their text books and read what their teachers were teaching in their classrooms. When I had problems with classroom content, I made appointments to talk to their teachers. Unfortunately, today most parents do not involve themselves in their childrens' education and look at the K-12 educational system as government paid day care.
I also worked the other side as a substitute teacher and found that one of the biggest problems with our educational system is over administration. When I first started, I found that substitute teachers were basically baby sitters who passed out busy work or played movies to the classes they subbed for. Fortunately, as the staff got to know me, they actually provided and encouraged me to teach their lessons...often with notice, actually creating my own lesson plans.
One thing that I discovered was that growing up in Detroit, I was fortunate to be in school when the Detroit school system was considered one of the top ones in the US. I never realized how good an education I had till I became a teacher. Comparing my DPS education to what the schools offer today was shocking. Too much dependence upon computers in class...and the fact that most students used their phones for non-academic reasons while in class (my reputation as a confiscator was well known even though I ignored the school policy of warnings before confiscation.
Of course, I worked in a rural school system where patriotism, hunting, and freedom were prime in the local culture. Even the most liberal teachers knew that there were boundaries that should not be breached. My little experience in urban schools showed a much different atmosphere.
Henry and I have had our differences here on the CF, but he has always had my respect for his directness and honesty--and relevant experience.
HA/KS's Link
There is no doubt about this. Eternal judgement is not what we should be doing. However, there are many places in scripture where we are told to judge.
From the link:
"Those people who call for tolerance and quote “judge not” out of context are not using sound thinking. Their call for tolerance is impossible because as Christians, we are called to judge righteously, and judging between right and wrong is something we do every day—and it should be a part of biblical discernment in every believer’s thinking. But it is God’s Word that makes the judgment on morality and truth, not our own opinions or theories."
I have worked in 4 school districts and the similarities and differences are very interesting. As a principal, the similarities and differences I saw between classrooms in the same building were also interesting.
Whitey's Link
We agree. Tenure needs to be eliminated. Academic freedom can exist without it!
Now if I could just quit going down youtube rabbit holes when I get on.... never thought a head massage was so..... interesting......
Anyhow, I got fed up with a couple of kids playing games on their phones while I was giving instructions and called them up front, looked them in the eyes and said, "Drop down and give me 20." And then I made them do it.
Word go out and I never had that problem again. That incident began a great relationship with the students since I subbed most days.
Whistleblower Reveals Chaos of NYC Public Schools
An anonymous whistleblower reveals what it is like to teach in public schools in a city that has succumbed to moonbattery, namely Bill de Blasio’s New York:
I am a math teacher at a middle school in Flushing, Queens, and two months ago, I was helping one of my students work out an arithmetic problem when he called me a “f–kin’ asshole.” When I asked for an apology, he shoved a chair at me and stormed out.
Five minutes later, an administrator brought the student back to class. She informed me that she had called his parents and that he could return.
And what did I do? I went on teaching.
Or rather, went on babysitting. How can anyone teach in such an environment? Any students who even try to learn are punished by their peers for acting white. They are just killing time before pursuing lucrative careers as Democrat voters, paid lavishly to do nothing else by the welfare state.
In my 20 years working for the Board of Ed, I’ve never seen such a disregard for the rules — and human decency — as I’m seeing now.
Drug use, sexual assault, fistfights, cursing at teachers, et cetera result in at most an in-house suspension,
also known as a hang-out-with-your-phone-in-an-empty-classroom day.
The savages have no inducement to behave in a civilized manner. They are the future.