Grey Ghost's Link
Matt
Actually, you were one of the few people on that thread who seems to have remained fairly consistent with their views and values. I applaud you for that. As for others on that thread, I simply can't resolve their apparent hypocrisy, and flip-flopping.
Matt
In retrospect, Trump has remained Trump...too often crude in his comments, but has acted as I felt, an outsider who has tried hard to follow on what he campaigned for.
Had the Republican Party been much more supportive of him, he would have been able to accomplish much of what he has done in a much different manner rather than relying on EOs such as his predecessor did. And probably would have kept control of the House rather than loosing it to the likes of AOC and company (Nancy may be Speaker, but she has no control or shows much leadership).
Trump was an unknown that many of us didn't really trust to govern as a conservative (let alone think could actually get elected).
He is still too brash for many of us, but so far has governed more conservatively than most of us could have hoped.
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I really don't think you can call someone a hypocrite from that one thread. There were other threads where they stated the choice was Trump or Hillary, so they went trump.
More threads that the same people stated they have been surprised at how he has governed so conservatively.
I was a Paulbot, then a Cruz-head. Then it came down to my vote, there was no question that anybody DNC was not going to get it.
So calling people a hypocrite for statements from just one thread, is disingenuous at the very least, and always a Liberal tactic to the Nth degree. Nice try Grey Ghost, but you have failed miserably.
Tony
Matt
I can't completely fault anyone that learns new information and changes their opinion. As much as I wanted Cruz to be the nominee and can't stand Trump, I realize the fire Trump set on the right is the only reason we don't have Hilliary and it was close still.
Just jumping on board and suppressing your held values is a different story and calling it a shame others can't bring themselves to do the same. Yea right.....
Trump is worse than the Democrats that I have railed on so many years and I will rail on him just as I did them.
Many of you are happy this guy "has a phone and a pen" to me it is the same thing as when 0bama had it....
LOL. I missed that one by a mile.
"Is Trump's run for the Presidency a huge prank of some sort? How anyone ever could take that clown seriously is beyond me."
No, I have a life...8^)
As far as Trump and McCain in hindsight Trump has my respect much more than McCain. McCain was a war hero and I respect him for that but he was a turncoat Senator and spiteful hateful Senator that betrayed the American people with his Obamacare repeal vote gleefully telling a reporter "To watch this" as he went in and voted no. Also, he was part of the cabal with the Steele Dossier, pushing that to hurt Trump and this country.
Politics is civil service where you make connections and get paid.
Service is putting your azz on the line so people have the right to their opinion even if its wrong.
Called McCaine out for his politics but torture for defending this nation is a far cry from claiming more military training than the Army could provide in a private boarding school from a draft dodger.....
Here's why to some it is important, IMHO.
Look how many had spiteful things to say about trump. Now that they have changed their positions, they say the spiteful things about others who never changed theirs.
Regarding McCain, I know a lot of vets, and have had few who say anything derogatory about his military service. They recognize his mess ups, but the POW status makes up for it. Mainly I hear the criticism from people who never served a day.
Yesterday I had the privilege of listening with a colleague some of the speeches of Reagan. Interestingly it makes clear why I do not like Trump, and will never jump on his train. Reagan talks of the country, of the greatness of America. He talks of things much bigger than him. Trump talks of himself, it is always about him. I am embarrassed our president tries to tell us the governor of California said he thinks trump is one of the smartest men he has ever dealt with, only for the governor to deny it. Embarrassed, but not surprised.
Matt, to me what is frustrating on the CF is that people cannot accept differing opinions without name calling. I have no problem with people accepting Trump. Robin does. I understand you look at his judicial appointments, tax cuts, military spending, (national security in general), illegal immigration, etc. and are happy with him being on the right side. So I am!
But, it is also as easy for me to accept there are a lot of others who believe in spite of all the good he does, his approach will inflict more damage in the long run. He is only an acceptable person because the alternative was unbelievably worse. He is acceptable, not even close to being ideal.
Yet no doubt these words will be attacked, including by those who were so adamant about Trump being the big loser before. Maybe you are wrong, and maybe you are right. I would just like to think a president ought to do what Reagan did for our nation, inspire us to always do better and be the force for good not just here but in the world. To me that is more important than the Heritage Foundation rating.
I am an idealist that way, and make no apology for it.
Once again you are smarter than everyone else. Thanks for reminding us.
BTW, do you still feel Trump is a “whore of the worst kind”?
Matt
It takes diversity in thought, casting a wide net, to form a solution that will work for the majority. But it seems both sides only see things their way, at least that is the perception most independents claim.
I accept others have different opinions, and I like to test my own against theirs. Not speaking for Matt, but at least on the CF it does not seem we have a culture that encourages any dissent. At one time the "herd" mentality was mostly Trump's an idiot, and now that mentality has done a 180 with anyone still holding the initial view being chastised. Let's be honest, Trump didn't change, views on him did. So folks were either wrong then or now. Just accept people have different opinions and go from there.
"I'll build a wall and make Mexico pay for it." Sounded great. Instead we got "I'll be happy to shut down the government", if taxpayers don't pay for a wall.
"No more gun free zones" and "a concealed carry permit should work in every state" and "gun and magazine bans are a total failure." Sounded great. Instead we got "take the guns first, go through due process second".
"I'll eliminate the national debt in 8 years." Sounded great. Instead we got higher budget deficits and higher debt.
"I'll repeal and replace Obamacare". Sounded great. Instead we got rinse and repeat.
"I will push for a constitutional amendment to impose term limits on all membesr of Congress". Sounded great. Instead we got....nothing.
"I will cancel all funding to sanctuary cities". Sounded great. Instead the courts ruled that was unconstitutional.
"I'll negotiate better trade deals." Sounded great. Instead we got lingering tariffs, and stagnant markets for over a year.
"I'll de-nuke North Korea." Sounded great. Instead we got 2 dog and pony photo ops, which only served to legitimize little rocket man.
Now, on the bright side, we did get 2 conservative SCOTUS judges, a tax cut, some deregulation, and daily entertaining tweets. I guess that's something to hang your hat on.
Matt
On the flip side, we have no new trade deals, only tariffs. Trump has infringed on the 2A more than Obama. Trump has done more to piss off our allies to appease dictators. I’m fairly confident we would have gotten none of that from any of the other Republican candidates and certainly not from a Libertarian. So yeah, not a big fan when it comes to policy decisions. And when it comes to character, just refer back to the OP.
I know two people who know him and they don't say that.
Trump is a marketing genius, and playing a lot of folks IMO. Matt's list is not quite as fair as I think it should be, but he has pointed out a lot of things that are true.
And it is fun to tell our allies where to go, but look around as our enemies are becoming more belicose every day while our former allies are tiring of trump. The trade thing is not working out either, at least so far.
But read this thread closely and you will see people still grinding axes from former interactions.
Maybe Trump's rude, obnoxious behavior follows where the country was already at, but he is not helping.
Take the same positions and shut the heck up. Smarting off does nothing to help, it only hurts. Let your results do all of the talking.
2020, still a question as we do not even know for sure if Trump will be on the ticket.
Chad, that is sad. Our nation must do better. The gotcha politics is preventing people from running. Our loving Trump's every obnoxious act only encourages more of the same.
Chad, I don't think he will win again if he keeps it up. Did you read Mr. Starbuck's positions. He is a centrist. Worst part, he would only nominate judges who would garner 2/3 support in the Senate.
Trump keeps it up, blame him for the country's move left. To me, the long game is at risk.
Look, I answered what I believe inside. I may be wrong, but I am no dummy. So, let's keep our mutual respect steady. I do not hate Trump. I love this country.
Thanks.
I get it, honestly. My perception though, most here voted for him not just because the alternative was worse, but because they applaud the behavior that makes payback feel good. That is wrong on a spiritual level, to me, and bad precedent for our future culture.
One of the things I have been most proud of as a conservative is that we occupied the higher moral ground. I relished the company of people who strived to live by a higher standard. Like all, we failed at times, but our trying set us above, IMHO.
It just seems to me that we have lost that. It just seems to me that real leadership would see the risks of courting questionable tactics. Thanks.
But at least I am self-righteous.
Oh please, check yourself man. You don't want windmills in your back yard because they are abominations to you, and it justifies you using erroneous information such as the windmills will be abandoned and left to deteriorate. But your ability to judge others, including the purity of country living over city living is justified because of your Bible verse citing ability, so God must have whispered it in your ear.
Look in the mirror, if your Amish life style allows that.
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Maybe I can sue Pat for $250 million . . . . . . .
;^)
Henry gives as good as he gets. He uses that subtle country approach, so I oblige him and use a hammer because that's what he thinks of city folks;-). Just a little chess game, or checkers, I am not sure.
My last post clearly states I support all those promises Trump made. It also shows I generally approve of his SCOTUS selections, tax cuts, and some of his deregulation.
So, where exactly do we differ in our political views and values? Do you honestly think Hillary was my favored candidate? If you truly knew me, you'd know how laughable that is.
Here's where I think our differences lie. I'm not willing to settle for "at least he's not Hillary", or "he's better than I thought he would be". I would like to see someone make those promise, and actually keep them. I also realize some of those promises simply can't be achieved by one president. I knew it when he made them, and I'm shocked how many people were duped into thinking otherwise.
And for the last time, my decision not to vote was my personal revolt against a system that produced such awful candidates. My right, my decision, my choice. You may not agree with it, but frankly, I don't care. I don't agree with those of you who seemingly compromise your principles for the sake of partisanship. Should you care? Only if the shoe fits.
Matt
If you have not noticed, I don't waste my time refuting you any more.
Yes, that was a joke, my statement is a refutation. I only read it because I thought it was bb. My apology. I only posted my comment because I know how much words mean to you, except when they don't off course. :-0
Matt,
I think it is the others who do not get it. They cannot ever tell you why you are not conservative. I have flat out stated my positions and asked where I am not conservative. All you get is crickets.
Kevin misses completely. They cannot refute your positions so they attack you personally. Who else does that, and this group thinks it is OK?
I totally agree that we do not have to accept trump's behavior. That is the abyss in our nation today. Either you accept the guy and offer no criticism, or you are some butt-hurt, maverick, low life scum liberal, etc. etc. etc.
It amazes me that some how people like you and I are dumb today, but these guys were what back when they attacked trump? Did their IQs increase suddenly?
I cannot look at a video of sandman and draw the conclusion he was smug, yet people here can draw a conclusion about me just from some words I post. Again, all of a sudden their IQs went up because they see the light with trump?
Now some will accuse me of going down a certain road I travelled before. FYI to them, I get this way when I have had an overload serving of hypocrisy and need to just call it out.
Like Jack, you offer some criticism about most educators today, yet you use loaded terminology like "malignant TDS". I know you know about loaded terminology.
Henry believes in markets, until the point that he thinks we should prefer carbon energy over renewables because it creates more jobs. Logic like that just makes me choke. Folks are getting annoyed because they cannot point to your inconsistencies with the clarity that you are pointing out theirs.
So, again instead of someone listing the conservative principles we hold, the name calling will begin. And yet, I suck as an educator.
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. . . . and yet, hypocrite was called by the thread owner right out of the starting gate (2nd post), you say you bemoan name calling, and on this tread you commend the thread owner.
Others have also commended the thread owner. Not I. I smell Liberal stink all over his and your posts.
You are just all over the place.
You have become predictable. Name one thing about any position I have ever staked out that is liberal. You can only make stuff up, like you are doing here. He used the word apparent, just like you are "smelling" liberal stink. That is your perception, just like it is his. He was calling out behavior, not name calling an individual. If you don't understand the difference, you just are not that smart.
I can't even read your nonsense any more. I am not the smartest man any where. I work with geniuses. I have Harvard students in my classes during the summer.
You just don't have a clue about me or my situation. You are the one who cannot stand an opinion different from yours. You spent countless hours parsing words trying to prove how intelligent you are. Just the opposite occurs.
I now get it why you think I behave a certain way, because that is how you are. My students are not mush brains you arrogant jerk.
bigeasygator's Link
I think you need to clear your ears out, SZ. That's 16% of his campaign promises, not 60%.
No, I have not seen the Bronzes and Silvers, but they received them.
I have never known a vet who blew himself up as much as you do. Really sad, can't even respect your posts any longer. These vets here deserve as much recognition as you do. I have had the privilege of assisting vets, some physically, or mentally or emotionally wounded. Never, ever do I question their honor!
Shocking haha. Care to cite which sites?
Politifact lays out every single campaign promise made (six pages worth) and gives an update on what has been delivered. Tell me what they’ve characterized incorrectly.
They do!
bigeasygator's Link
Wet dreamed lol
Heritage Foundation: The Incredible Trump Agenda – What Most Americans Don’t Know About the War the President Has Waged
“At the end of 2017, we reviewed all 334 recommendations presented in our “Mandate for Leadership” series and found that the Trump administration had embraced fully 64 percent of them. That’s nearly two out of three – and that’s very good indeed.”
Curious, is the ACU stat (since google doesn’t show it exists) related to embracing positions or actually accomplishing tasks? Or is it completely fabricated like the entire notion that Trump has accomplished 70% of his campaign promises.
Go back and read the post from a student's mom, then you will not have to guess and distort about what I teach. But, yes, I do teach them to be assertive enough to stand up to bullies when necessary.
How did high school go for you Kevin?
How do you feel now after all those years of the BS you swallowed and were used like a used condom by your government? The " get out to vote" to have change when they had the power to change anything they wanted whenever they wanted. Ahhhhh but what goes around comes around and now they are all squirming in their leather padded seats watching all they built on the sweat and tears the American working man come tumbling down, piece by piece with no end in site.
The Rock
The Rock
The Matt
The Matt
...but it can't be denied.
The Rock
I agree, Bud Lite is piss water.
The Matt
...but it can't be denied. Correct?
The Rock
Balance that post with your posts from the thread I linked to. And please don't give me the lame "I changed my mind" excuse.
With all due respect,
The Matt
All I am saying with referencing what I just posted is that "it can't be denied". Can it?
It is a yes or no answer. This is straight up without the politics of politics being involved.
If you don't think so that's fine with me. You may still choose to dislike the man.
The Rock
So, now when you respond make sure you tell us how you have stood up, what protests attended, what uniform worn, what fights you were in...
At what age does a person gain the right to stand up to a bully?
Answer mine first, then I will answer yours. What protests have you attended, what uniform have you worn, what fights were you in?
No answer, it's fair to assume you would let kids do the work for you.
Kids should stand up to other bullies their age. Wearing a hat that we all know might invoke a response, and doing so at a location where people that have opposing views to yours will be in attendance is not the actions of an innocent victim as you want us to think.
Maybe doing this in a rural area would be a non-event, but this was in one of those bad cities. And I bet you did not attend demonstrations like this with your kids wearing a garment that would draw the scorn of others. Are these kids not as important as yours?
Safe spaces are an over-done reaction to the sad fact that numerous kids each year do harm to themselves because of bullies. When you know a person that has taken their own life because of this, it might be easier to understand the intent behind the not so great idea.
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"Any other assumptions Legend?"
I agree, KPC, how ironic.
I wonder what personal manners, debating skills, or human interaction sermon we will receive today?
I have tried to tackle Finnegan's Wake by Joyce about 15 times over my life and only once got beyond the first page. Hedgies posts have the same effect on me.
Find my words offensive, but free pass on the others. Yes, you should go back to school.
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Once again, putting words in print that no one typed. That is your M.O.
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Tony
Wow..... Just wow.... There's that smug, superior attitude we've all come to know. How's that reconcile with your words to be a better Christian? The irony, you state that the "kid" should have just walked away and let it go. Pot meet kettle.
Well phrased BowSniper.
Yes, I give McCain all due credit for enduring incredible hardship as a POW among some of the worse torturing bastards ever. True hero stuff to have survived that. But that does not make him a deity eternal !!
Let's not also forget it was McCain's staff who spread the dirty dossier among establishment goons to take down Trump. Is an attempted soft coup also hero stuff!?!??!
And it was that spiteful prick McCain who saved Obamacare and screwed all of us. So when GG lists obamacare as failure of Trump, that is not true at all. It was your 'hero' McCain that f-cked all of us with that one. He has been screwing everything he could touch since he left that prison camp. Starting with the Lincoln Savings and Loan....
I have zero understanding of how this has anything to do with the fact that you apparently think that you have the right to tell kids when they have the right to stand up to a bully and when they must just lie down and take it.
You then add to that the idea that it is wrong for the kid to have adults stand up to the bullies for him by filing lawsuits in his name.
I will answer your question. I did not serve in the military. I had no particular interest in joining, but also did not accept a deferment and left the question in the hands of God and our government. I had a borderline number that I didn't know if I would get called, but I did not.
I do not participate in civil disobedience, have never rioted, and never attended a protest march. I have also never tried to deny anyone the right to protest.
Multiple times through my education career I have advocated for students with school boards, other staff, other students, and even had talks with parents. I have testified in court on behalf of students.
The Keating Five that everyone seems to have forgotten. Four liberal and one, guess who Republican who f-..ked the American working man out of his money. That no good CS John Glenn was one of those pricks. F..k HIM AND HIS ROCKET.
The Rock
What a fire storm I created. So, here we go, buckle up...
Tony, go back to your first post today, and the quotes you posted from my posts.
You posted only parts of what I said, which do not reflect what transpired. The same thing the press did to Sanders, posting only a one-sided view, and all of you justify a $250M lawsuit. That is a joke, your are blind to your own hypocrisy. But those tactics are OK against anyone here who is not a trumpette.
Second, all of you hero worshippers (trumpettes) supporting his attack style personality, yet when you receive the same back you retreat to your safe room, the CF, where you all pat each other on the back. Yes, the inflammatory language I used was intentional, and proved you are hypocrites. Read what the student posted, I am certainly not that way with them or here at the college, or with my personal life. That was intentional as well so when I came back to say I pushed back hard on purpose your predictable comments about my lack of Christian approach could be called what they are-BS. Remember the money changers?
Kevin and the rest who have no experience with a community college, they are not the same as universities. Within 24 hours prior of having my students be called "mush brains" I had a student who came to me for help. A tough guy who witnessed what no human should have to, broke into tears. Why, because he knows he is safe with me and that anyone short of God or Jesus wants to make a derogatory comment, this old fan man is standing in their way. I did not ever have to do for this country what many have, they are my heroes and no one, I mean no one gets to call them anything other than 'sir' in my presence. Maybe you are human enough to see this reaction for what it was, but I won't count on it.
Kevin, you also prove the ignorance of the average FOX News blow hard in this country. You have no idea of what you are talking about when it comes to students. Community colleges again are not like universities, we have a different mission and a large part of our student body is not mush brains like your co-ed daughters but non-traditional students, adults with real world experience coming back to college after whatever, or going to college for the first time because of whatever when they were young. Many went to voluntarily fight, they enlisted, choosing to. (So IMO Henry, they get a say, that's a lot different than how you handled it.) When you have 29 years of working with them to understand all of the whatevers, come back and talk like you actually know something.
Henry, I knew before you answered you never participated. And knew you would not get the point about you telling us the kids had every right to stand up and should when you didn't do it yourself. What I call arm-chair couching, but you are the expert I am sure. Go cheer someone on to do something they were not willing to do themselves, go ahead, put someone else's kids in harms way.
"Multiple times through my education career I have advocated for students with school boards, other staff, other students, and even had talks with parents. I have testified in court on behalf of students."
Wow, you want a medal for doing your job. That describes every teacher I know at this school. I get parents who contact me about their adult children, again reference the correspondence posted. That's our job, we were blest to have the privilege to do it.
I make no apology, I intentionally was insulting to you guys. This is what trump does and you are fine with it. No one likes it, it is not productive. No, I am not a know it all. I am on bended knee constantly asking for help. I fail, often! I deal with a lot of folks, who by the grace of God are not me, who have challenges they can not overcome by themselves. I have grown tired of, no actually refuse to listen to a bunch of fake conservatives throw everyone under the bus as needing safe rooms or whatever, just because they need help coping. Thank God it is not you, I do.
You can call me out and rightfully say I need to improve. First, start with yourselves and admit the same. I bet you are incapable of it, the false bravado here is contagious once you wind each other up. I have got a broad set of shoulders, so flail away.
Sniper, no it is not presumptuous IMO, or I would not have done it. I have been called 'Frank' here by people who never posted anything before. I actually see it as being, or attempting to be, more respectful.
Trax, he is not the best thing. This country is going to pay the price for a long time. He benefits most by the constant fighting, or else he would work to end it.
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I beg to differ. You are the one bemoaning name calling, yet you can get pretty nasty yourself. You just proved once again that you are the name calling hypocrite.
Unbelievable.
Even more unbelievable, is that you and Big Bear want the Kid to apologize, yet ignore the Media and the Indian.
Unbelievable !
Cry me a river.
Can you point out where I said to ignore the media or the Native American? Please do so.
I never did. I have pointed out I think conservatives have always held the high ground, until recently. My suggestion was to keep doing that. Chris can speak for himself.
Kevin,
Maybe psychoanalysis was your true calling? Or maybe you are not cut out to stand by your principles and are more comfortable blowing in the CF wind?
But you know what? This ol truck I have now has turned out to be a WAY better truck than I ever thought it would. In fact it's been so good at getting me where I want to go...... I think I'll try and keep it for several more years.....
My nose is still on my face. In one piece.... a might crooked, but in one piece. I plan on keeping it. Grown attached to it.....
"What a fire storm I created."
Good grief. Isn't there a hallway that needs monitoring somewhere?
"Trump isn't just mad.... he's insane.... Trump has kept nothing off limits. His personal tweets that he fires off on a regular basis are the same as campaign ads, they are circulated to thousands if not millions of people. And they tell more about the man than any ad could.
They show that having no intellectual defense of his statements and positions, when challenged all he has are threats. From lawsuits to insults to revealing private "knowledge" to physical violence.
Threats and insults on a crude, grade school bully level. Everything from making fun of others faces to Bush is married to a Mexican to threats to Cruz's wife and hundreds of sick statements in between. This is the man you could choose for president of the US.... incredible...
Trump himself didn't denounce the idea of attacking families.... he doubled down on it. He has the emotional maturity of a child."
Matt
I realize it is a long ways from where you stand down to where you see me, but get out your optics.
"Answer mine first, then I will answer yours." I ask again, at what age do you plan to give a person the right to stand up to a bully?
Is it that hard for you to admit you were wrong? My ego isn't so big I can't admit I was wrong about something.
GG.... you must be ideologically home bound. Rather than sign on to a "lesser" vehicle, you refused to drive.... and now seem to be just spending your time shaking your fist at those who are cruzin' on by...... (for the records and those who dwell on them... not a reference to Ted....)
I answered you, read the post completely. When you make certain statements that I have pointed out, I take it as denigration of folks like me and my back ground Henry. I have as much pride as you do, and I think all Americans that are law abiding and ethical should have pride in their heritage. You and I both denigrate people here, do you not realize that? Out of respect for you as a person I will respond again. My answer was simply kids should not stand up to an adult about their rights unless at risk of injury by said adult. So, I guess 18, or whatever legal age you guys want to assign has having full rights. I am asking, by your standards would that not be male property owners only? Taken from another post you made. Can you understand the inconsistencies I see. If they are adult enough to stand up to a liberal, then gosh darn it they ought to be good enough to vote? Understand please, I am not denigrating you to say it bothers me that someone who did not serve, admits to not participating in events like this one see no problem with other young people doing it. Henry, I think it is fair to assume at least part of the reason you did not do those things is you considered the risk involved. And if I am correct, it is difficult for me to understand why you would encourage others to take certain risks. All of the people that we point our barbs at, some how we think that is OK until someone shoves back. If you want to limit voting to property owners, then property owners like you and I need to be taking the risks with the future direction of this country. I expect you to respond you were just pointing history out, and maybe you were. But, there is a reason we changed voting rights from then, and a reason we limit it to 18 today. Because young people do not fully understand the consequences of their actions, so if they are not mature enough to vote, they ought not, IMO, be in harm's way unnecessarily. I ask that you respect me back with a response that shows your logic and reasoning, as I have done out of respect for you.
Trax, please grow up, your fascination with panties and wetness etc. is disturbing. I am a piss ant brave enough to use my real name, unlike the coward you are.
Kevin, this is me, people are complex. I am more open than you, proof is my 'Things in Common' thread. I shared all of it, the good and the bad. People with an ego or self identity problem do not behave that way. You can continue to theorize about me, but that is all it is. Again, this is me, I am open. Your personality is different, and that is OK!
Look at Matt's response to TD if you are still having trouble figuring this out. Those were all former quotes of his, in the same strong language he uses today to denounce everyone who doesn't buy into the trump hype. Maybe people ought to reflect on that, their attacking language is the same, whatever they believe at any one point in time, even when it's a 180 from before. Kevin, you did the same. So now you changed your mind. Others change as well.
What Tony did using my partial quotes without what the other side said is exactly what you guys attacked the press for over Sandman. You were right to attack the press, but remain silent when done to a "maverick". And all we will hear is either silence or a justification of how the two episodes are different.
If that is your integrity, you own it. I will worry about me, maybe do the same some time for yourself. I do think Matt was on to something here. Personally, I have no problem with people reevaluating the pros and cons and changing positions. That is totally normal. I also have no problem with those who looked again at it honestly and concluded what they did before, he is not what is needed for our country. We really will not know who is right or wrong for some time. Thanks.
No truer words could be spoken.
Matt
"...adults with real world experience coming back to college after whatever..."
"I do teach them to be assertive enough to stand up to bullies when necessary."
I am glad that they have you to teach then to stand up to bullies since they have been adults for many years and never knew how to look out for themselves.
"kids should not stand up to an adult about their rights unless at risk of injury by said adult."
I always considered students to be real people with rights and encouraged my students to appropriately question adults in the school setting, but I guess I was wrong and they should have waited until you told them it was OK.
My take, maybe wrong, is that you think your kids are mature right up until they want to exercise some real rights, like voting. Then you want to make sure things go the way you think they should.
We do agree on appropriately questioning adults, probably disagree on what is appropriate. I did not think Sandman's behavior was appropriate, and you do.
And yes, we teach different subjects. People can be adults and still possess a passive personality. These adults benefit from learning techniques on how to be assertive. I can refer you to some well respected authors if you like. Maybe you might re-think what you have written above after reading some, being the open minded individual I have been told you are.
We are both practicing passive aggressive behavior, so neither of us are operating in the adult ego.
At times I don't mind doing this as it is an escape. But, the previous post I gave you my logic behind my thinking, and asked that you do the same. A missed opportunity for both of us.
We can try again if you like.
"you think your kids are mature right up until they want to exercise some real rights, like voting. Then you want to make sure things go the way you think they should." What exactly does that mean?
One real right the right to visit a historic spot and wear a red hat. Which one of us doesn't want kids exercising that right?
Here is one example of how I taught kids to stand up for themselves. I taught one class where there were no tests, just projects. Each grading period students submitted a document stating what they did to earn their grade. The grade was based on finished assigned projects plus unassigned projects created by the students, but they only got credit for projects they put in their project report. Even if they did the project in class and I saw it done they received no credit for it unless they put it in their document. Students never forgot twice. One bright student listed the required credit document on their paper as something they deserved credit for. Yes, they got credit for that. It was one small way that I got students to thinking about what they accomplished in class and how they could promote themselves, as well as thinking about how they could accomplish more to raise their grade.
When I was a high school principal, I got the board to approve allowing seniors in good standing to create one class for themselves. They did more work for that class than any other, but also benefited from being independent and creative.
As a HS principal, I worked to find ways to give students more self-responsibility. It seems a travesty that one day they still have to get permission to use the bathroom and the next day they are kicked out into the world. Why not structure HS so they develop the skills to be independently productive and self-disciplining?
BTW, I was a preschool principal for 11 years. Teachers taught kids 3-5 how to stand up for themselves - age developmentally appropriate.
. . . . .
"Any other assumptions Legend?"
. . . . considering the above statements, my question is, did anyone buy the next post below from HfW ?
"Yes, the inflammatory language I used was intentional, and proved you are hypocrites."
I am calling bullshit.
You can call BS all you want. The simple fact is your copying only parts of what I said misrepresents the exchange that occurred, just like what happened to Sandman. And that is BS.
I definitely want kids and adults visiting educational locations. If a kid is with his parents and they allow the hat wearing, absolutely fine with it. BTW, it wasn't just a red hat, was it? We need to be fully transparent.
This was a school sponsored event. It is not the time to try and make political statements. Test the limits of your rights when under parental supervision.
I applaud your innovative classroom techniques. Hopefully the independence, initiative, responsibility etc. you were trying to convey you recognize was in a safe environment, not the same as what the Covington kids were embroiled in. Great also that you taught age appropriate assertive techniques. Good for you, sincerely.
To Big Bear' s point about will the school allow this to happen again. I believe not, and because their actions were not age appropriate and carried too great of a risk. This was not about standing up for yourself, wearing a hat that the reality is causes a negative reaction to some. Their actions were not a defensive posture. I think you realize that. Should the kids, or anyone, be allowed to wear the hat? Absolutely. But we have to deal with reality unfortunately. A school sponsored event is not the place, again IMO, to test societal norms.
Look, we can disagree about this, but my position is certainly reasonable, and the logic is laid out for all to read. Hopefully you would recognize, if I was one of your former pre-school students, my attempt to stand up for myself. Honestly Henry, you leave me perplexed. The voices on this site that do not go along with the majority are certainly attacked. I may have missed it, but have you ever offered any words of support to them, or is teaching and showing folks how to stand up for themselves only done in a classroom, or only extended to those you agree with?
Thanks for the civility.
Waiting to see if anyone will challenge your mind reading ability, as is often done to me.
My guess is they will not.
More inconsistency in my opinion.
Bowbender's Link
Take a gander at this.
I will wait for another dissertation.
;-)
I think I see adults there. It is a liberal cause, so no worry about violence. Not fair, but it is that way.
Really? Read the caption. It was a school event. Several schools participated. School was in session on Friday. This was taking young pliable minds to a one sided political rally and you defend it. Gotcha.
"It's a liberal cause, so no worry about violence"
You're slip is showing Frank. I can list rally after rally of liberal events where people were assaulted, arson, riots..... Remember all the riots after the dems took the house? Yeah, me neither.
You're no conservative. You're no liberal or moderate either. You're worse. You're a fence sitter. You'll stake out a "safe" position and then argue both sides against the middle. An "agent provocateur" so to speak.
I see no reason to continue a disingenuous conversation with you. Gonna put on my new Lowa Camino GTX's , grab my pack and start training for my first DIY elk hunt.
Carry on with your verbal masturbation. Just clean up when you're done.
Matt
We will disagree, but I appreciate the recent olive branches. I just can't support the logic that only liberal causes are OK for students to support or that students are to be shielded from conservative thought and actions.
You also seem to have missed where I have always separated what a private school can do from what a public school should do.
I would never support a public school attempting to send students to participate in a partisan political rally, but absolutely support the rights of a private school (or individual parents and/or students of public school students) to participate in legal political activities.
I don't support kids involved in something they are actually too young to even understand. It was sarcasm. As was the part about no need to worry about violence.
Henry, I do remember you distinguishing between public and private. I see no difference unless the parents are involved, or with direct oversight by the approved chaperones. I do not believe that occurred in this instance. Matt's question remains...do you think Covington will allow this again?
I also do not believe kids should be shielded from learning, especially conservative thought, but liberal as well. Just do it exercising sound judgment.
There is (and should be) a huge difference between public and private schools in the K-12 arena. Post-secondary you are correct, the differences have mostly disappeared.
