https://www.news.uscg.mil/News-by-Region/9th-District-Great-Lakes/
https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/USDHSCG/bulletins/2356c1c
YES !!! They should reimburse the Coast Guard !!!!
I'm cool with reimbursement of all or a big %. In NH there are signs at trail heads noting you will be charged (financially) for rescue if needed. Seems like a good idea to me. At the least, it would get folks thinking before they just headed out.
I had a friend ask me many years ago if I wanted to go ice fishing with him. I told him no, I don't fish for ice........
""Poll: Should U.S. Coast Guard charge for rescues involving people stranded on ice floes?
Updated Mar 19, 2011; Posted Mar 19, 2011 By Michael Wayland | [email protected]
A dozen people were rescued by U.S. Coast Guard officials from ice floes on the Saginaw Bay on Thursday.
ESSEXVILLE — MLive.com users today are debating whether or not people stranded on ice floes should have to pay for the U.S. Coast Guard's assistance.
Some users say the people should have enough common sense to stay off the ice in warmer temperatures, so make them pay for their own rescue:
From Bandit06: "The names of those rescued should be given so we can all know who these idiots are that risk their life on obviously unstable ice for some lousy fish. They should also have to pay the cost of the rescue."
While others say its the Coast Guard's responsibility and while going onto the ice was probably a bad idea, everyone makes mistakes:
From HalloweenJack: "Your tax money has already been allocated to the Coast Guard for these rescues. The Coast Guard operates from an annual budget approved by congress. That money goes to the Guard whether they have to perform one ice rescue or a hundred - or none at all.
"Was it smart to go out that day? Probably not. But the ice WAS thick enough to be out on however it was also in a state that made it vulnerable to break from the main floe if the wind shifted... which it did."
The argument started after the Station Saginaw River, along with three fire departments, assisted with rescuing 12 people on Thursday.
The Coast Guard does not charge for rescues. But should it? What do you think?""
A person in this article puts blame on the authorities for not warning people.
"" updated 2/9/2009 7:30:20 PM ET TOLEDO, Ohio — Now that the danger is over for 134 fishermen stranded on a huge ice floe in Lake Erie over the weekend, the anger has set in among the people who had to rescue them.
The fishermen ignored cracks in the ice and high-wind warnings; some even built a makeshift bridge across the cracking ice to reach a favorite fishing spot. But the agencies that led the risky rescue operation can't charge them a dime.
"They pushed it to the limit," Ottawa County Sheriff Bob Bratton said Monday. "It wasn't about the weather. It was about common sense and personal responsibility."
Some emergency responders say laws should be written to fine or even criminally charge ice fishermen who take extreme risks.
"This was a man-made rescue," Bratton said. "This wasn't like a tornado or a flood. These people were reckless."
Eleven fire departments, two sheriff's departments and the U.S. Coast Guard sent boats, helicopters and crews to Lake Erie's shoreline Saturday when the ice shifted, stranding the fishermen about 1,000 yards offshore.
Authorities haven't tallied the cost. On Sunday, Bratton had estimated the cost of the response at $20,000, but on Monday he said it would probably be significantly more than that.
One man died at the lake Saturday, although his relatives say he was not on the ice floe that broke away. Relatives told The Columbus Dispatch on Monday that the man died of an apparent heart attack just after his snowmobile went through the ice.
Most of the fishermen stuck on the ice were brought in by helicopters and air boats.
"They don't look at it from our side," said Dan Barlow, chief of the Catawba Island Township Fire Department, which handles about three ice rescues each winter but was not part of the response Saturday. "It's probably one of the most dangerous things we do."
The Coast Guard never charges anyone it rescues, saying it's part of its duty.
Bratton was behind a move three years ago in his county to punish ice fishermen who need to be rescued repeatedly. Those who need help twice take an ice fishing class. Third-time offenders can face fines and a bill for the rescue if the sheriff or prosecutors feel that's warranted.
Nobody has faced fines so far under the rules, and nobody will be fined over Saturday's incident because the emergency call originated in a different county. Bratton said he now thinks the rules may be too lenient, and that he wants to meet with the Coast Guard and other departments that take part in ice rescues to try to come up with a common policy.
Ice fishing guide Pat Chrysler, who takes out groups in western Lake Erie, said some type of penalty is needed because too many fishermen don't want to hear about safety.
"These guys walk out there and see the airboats and think they'll be taken care of," said Chrysler, who broke his neck 13 years ago while trying to rescue three people who drove an all-terrain vehicle through the ice.
What makes restrictions tricky is that hunting and fishing clubs have enormous political clout. Conservation groups in Michigan helped kill a bill a decade ago that would have set fines for ice rescues.
Bratton said there also may be more agencies can do to warn people of the risks. Most law enforcement agencies simply warn that there is no safe ice instead of trying to determine when the ice is safe.
Call for warning system Marc Hudson, president of the Western Basin Fishing Association in northern Ohio, said setting up a warning system would be a good start.
He said both the fishermen who ventured onto the ice and the authorities who failed to warn them should share the blame. He noted that authorities already can close beaches in the summer when conditions are dangerous.
"There are no rules about ice fishing," he said. "If you're going to put in rules, you need to put in accountability on the other side."
In Ohio, the ice fishing season on Lake Erie is unpredictable. Some years pass without any ice. But this winter has been especially good.
Thousands of fishermen have filled up hotels and restaurants in recent weekends. The big draw is the walleye, thought to be among the best-tasting freshwater fish.
Many of those rescued made sure to save their buckets of fish, but had to leave the rest of their gear behind. Mike Sanger of Milwaukee said Saturday he was most upset that he missed a day of fishing.
"It's always a little dicey, but it's excellent fishing, so I plan on coming again," he said. ""
If you fine or invoice stupid people who are rescued because they made poor decisions leading to having a need to be rescued... isn’t it likely that almost everyone being rescued would be fined?
And then they might make more poor decisions trying to avoid being fined or invoiced... and then they die?
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I've heard and read the comments about charging guys who need rescued. I would agree with that IF those guys went out in direct violation of a legal order to stay off the ice. Otherwise no. Some people think ice fishing is just too dangerous and NOBODY should go out there due to the risk. Those same people may think you're incredibly careless for climbing a tree, hunting a grizzly, rafting a river, exploring a slot canyon, hunting mountain goats solo and so on....ad nauseum. What you or I do may well be perceived as stupidly risky by others and they would assuredly charge you many painful thousands of dollars for doing things they consider stupid and risky. You hunted elk alone and with no gps or communication device? Bingo. Climbed a tree without a lifeline on the way up and took a tumble? You don't deserve rescue assistance without having to pay.
My point is this definitely a slippery-slope issue. You might think something smacks of stupidity and deserves a charge if rescue is ever needed. Simultaneously, dozens of other people may be thinking what YOU do is just plain risky and...."Hey we charged those icefishing idiots to rescue them. This guy deserves no better. We need to stop this free rescue business when people go take risks that we consider unacceptable".
I don't remember where I first read that or who authored it, but it stuck with me and I live by it.
Right. There will always be those who exhibit the definition of "dumb". The problem as I see it is, who gets to define "dumb" and where the line exists? Our government? Local authorities? Pundits? Non-sporting folks? Sometimes a guy just gets unlucky but could be judged 'dumb' according to a standard few of us might agree with. That's why I think charging guys for government-funded services (like rescue) has the potential to open up a can of worms leaving a lot of us open to being judged dumb when we are just unlucky. For the record, safety on big ice is about 98% doing the right things and 2% being lucky.
The flt hour cost of the CG's MH-65's at Selfridge ANGB in 2014 was about $8500. Probably more today. But for the sake of numbers....say the helo fly's 3 hours on an ice rescue case. That costs the taxpayers about $25.5K. It's $34K for 4 hours. The MH-60's out of Traverse City will cost quite a bit more per flt hour. Add in the CG, the airboat/crew and local rescue crews and the bill keeps increasing. I would not be surprised if the total bill is north of $60K to $70K. If the SAR agencies do that several times a year throughout the Great Lakes region...it adds up quickly$$$$. So if 20 guys had to split the $60K bill.....that is about $3K each for a day of ice fishing. Was it worth it to go out on risky ice fishing....not to mention their personal safety? The taxpayers will need to answer that one.
Maybe have police charge folks they help too? Or were they just stupid for walking down the wrong street at the wrong time? Mistaken the drunken neighbor who's wandering around in their yard?
yeah, not just slippery...... I'd think that slope was greased.....
The helo (or small boat, cutter, building, etc) is usually real property or inventory. It is already paid for on initial acquisition. The reoccurring flt hour cost is from a specific pot of money. The parts to maintain the helo is still another pot of money. Everything comes from some pot of bucks. If the helo is parked....it is not eating into the flt hour pot of money. I should probably explain that flt hour cost. A bean counter has figured that for a certain type of helo to fly for one flt hour....there is a cost incurred for the aircrew, the gas, the maintenance....say $1800 per. The bean counter then says to another bean counter that for this helo to fly that 1000 hours a year, the CG needs $1,800,000 in the budget request to do that. So the 2nd bean counter gathers all of the budget requests and submits a master CG budget request to the DHS Sect who then gives it to the Prez who then haggles with Congress over appropriations. That is the very simplified version....it is alot more complicated.
Anywho....any and all events and training use your programmed flt hours...no problem as long as you stay within your budget. If the CG has to do a bunch of ice rescues in the winter...some of those may have been preventable. Those saved flt hours could be used for another event in the spring or summer...like sending the helos down south to fly on hurricane rescues. I of course can't speak for the civilian agencies that have to respond to ice rescues....they may operate and get funded differently.
Once you get a top view and see how the whole thing works and is interconnected, you can understand how something that happened over on the left hand will affect something over on the right hand sooner or later. To charge wayward ice fisherman going out on risky ice/weather a fine or fee maybe more of a preventive measure than a compensatory measure. If the rescues could be reduced, that helps down the road. There was talk of charging boaters a fine/fee when they run out of gas and someone has to go get them. Years ago when I was stationed on the Gulf, there were stories of commercial fisherman who would go out in the Gulf fishing, stay till they ran out of gas and then call the CG to tow them back in for free. That could have been more rumor than fact....but I wouldn't dismiss it.
In the City I work in..... If you’re house alarm goes off and the Police respond to your house more than 3 times in a year on false alarms (businesses too)..... Then the city imposed a fine on you. I think if you fail to pay it then they get it out of you in your taxes......
Thanks Master Chief for what you and your guys do and did for our Country !!! I have a picture somewhere of one of your Choppers that landed on the front lawn of our Police Station a few years back..... I flew in the P-3s right next door to you at Selfridge way back in the day.