How Is This Legal????!
Contributors to this thread:General Topic
From: Thornton
12-Apr-17
Talking to a patient the other day. After their IV dilaudid hit home, they started babbling about how their friend is a USDA hired gun. Apparently he poisons geese in parks where they are unwanted. His other main job is killing waterfowl and other assorted birds with a suppressed .22 in town at a small airport. I get air safety, but parks? I'll never let my dog run in a public park. He might eat the poison.
I've also been watching "Life Below Zero" on Netflix. They chase down everything to kill it practically. They shoot from a motorized boat while under power to kill caribou, seals, ducks, muskrats, bears, moose you name it. Occasionally they will run something down on a snow machine and do the same thing. The wardens here in KS would have aneurysms if that stuff went on here.
From: shooter
12-Apr-17
There are no poisons registered to kill geese. They may be removing them, but they are not killing them with poison. This kind of work is done with a depredation permit from the USFWS. You don't have to worry about your dog eating anything worse than goose poop.
From: Grunt-N-Gobble
12-Apr-17
Dont know where you are located, but here in PA, geese in our parks can be pretty bad. They crap EVERYWHERE!!!! It can get so bad that the walking paths are covered in droppings, plus the will chase after people if they feel you are too close to a nest.
Just read a newspaper article where the USDA and the locals are going to try "aggressive harassment" measures to drive the geese away so they nest somewhere else. IMO, just shoot them and donate the meat to the local shelters.
From: Rickm
12-Apr-17
I can remember when shooting g our one goose a year came with bragging rights. Now they are a shoe and health risk. Not aware of any poisoning program but in the city and burbs they need to be removed.
Local park where my kids go to summer camp they try to use a dog service. The geese fly off and circle until the dog leaves and drop back in. Huge waste of money.
From: Topgun 30-06
12-Apr-17
I've never heard of killing them with poison, but I do know there are areas where there is aggressive work going on to oil all the eggs in their nests so they don't hatch because of the huge numbers where hunting is not allowed and they make a terrible mess to the point where it's unhealthy for human habitation.
From: Woods Walker
13-Apr-17
Here in Illinois we call them "Sky Carp".
From: TD
13-Apr-17
Was gonna say.... at some point anything can become a feathered rat....
From: Moose2367
13-Apr-17
Do you always believe everything you hear? Sounds like someone just shooting their mouth off.
From: elkstabber
13-Apr-17
elkstabber's Link
Here is some solid information about sterilizing goose eggs if that is your goal.
From: KJC
13-Apr-17
The Hailstone family can shoot out of a boat because they're native, subsistence hunters. Chip, the father, can't because he's not native.
From: Jethro
13-Apr-17
As stated no poisons used. I have participated in goose round ups with the USDA. My company hires them to remove resident populations. They are allowed to remove 50% of the flock from a property. It is done in June/July when the geese are molting and can't fly. The flock is surrounded and herded toward a pen. Its a sight to see. Geese are taken to a processor and meat is donated.
We also harass and chase the geese as well as register and participate in the nest egg depradation program. This is a requirement for qualifying for the USDA removal program.
Can't find any pics. 75 geese in a 10x10 corral is not something you see everyday. But if you get a chance to help them, I highly recommend it.
From: wilhille
13-Apr-17
The people on "life below zero" are not hunting for sport. They do it to survive.
From: Jaquomo
13-Apr-17
I remember back in the 60s when the Game and Fish started establishing them here in NoCo. They even trapped snapping turtles at the gravel pits to protect goslings and we would take visiting relatives to see the geese.
Now its a mess and the city has annexed so much farmland that its a huge sanctuary. My old goose hunting spot is a mall.
Great example of "be careful what you wish for".
From: lawdy
13-Apr-17
Geese have become a problem up here. The trouble is that people don't eat them anymore, therefore, less hunters. My mother grew up on a potatoe farm on Long Island, NY where goose was a staple in thei diet, especially during the Great Depression. My Polish grandfather and uncles used to kill a winters supply with their neighbors, the Yastremskis of baseball fame. We ever have another depression and the goose problem will disappear.
From: lawdy
13-Apr-17
Geese have become a problem up here. The trouble is that people don't eat them anymore, therefore, less hunters. My mother grew up on a potatoe farm on Long Island, NY where goose was a staple in thei diet, especially during the Great Depression. My Polish grandfather and uncles used to kill a winters supply with their neighbors, the Yastremskis of baseball fame. We ever have another depression and the goose problem will disappear.
From: Jaquomo
13-Apr-17
I watched a homeless guy sneak up and kill one with a hammer in the City Park at night. That was pretty cool!
From: Bob H in NH
13-Apr-17
Where I work there is a goose problem on the grass between buildings, it gets DISGUSTING with the amount of crap. They use to hire a dog to come in and chase em away, People complained (I work in MA). then they used coyote 3D targets that they moved around that didn't work.
Now they use remote control cars. Twice a day someone is out there chasing them off with a remote control car. It's funny to watch!
Golf courses also HATE geese
From: Thornton
13-Apr-17
Shooter. I spoke directly to the USDA guy when he came in the room and he said he uses something similar to rat poison
From: Medicinemann
13-Apr-17
Findley Lake, NY has had a goose problem for years. The goose crap became an issue because it eventually leached into the water table. I know that steps were taken to discourage the geese from landing near the lake (Findley Lake is real small....probably less than 1/2 square mile). I'll ask around and see what steps were taken.
From: Woods Walker
13-Apr-17
I've seen those goose chasing dog services at work too. For a dog it's like they've died and gone to heaven!
I can see my dog now.......
"Fido, we have a new job for you. For the rest of your life you get to lounge around and sleep for most of the day. Twice a day for 20 minutes we take you out on a gold course and you get to chase geese."
The dog would be like.........."Am I on Candid Camera or something? I must be still asleep and dreaming."
From: dmann
13-Apr-17
My stepbrother is usda biologist at an airport, does the same stuff. Some of the jobs he does are pretty interesting. Got to do a few ride a longs when i was younger. Just recently he dropped medicated marshmallows from a plane over mostly eastern ky to try to treat rabies. Thought that was cool. Along with everything mentioned above. Got to trap a few hawks and relocate a few times, foot hold trap on top of a pole with a cage full of chicks below, works very well. And yes, some of what they do is just basically legal poaching. But i would still love the job, he does a lot of interesting and helpful things with wildlife.
From: Crusader dad
13-Apr-17
One of the golf courses I go to on a weekly basis has a dog for the geese. He is friendly with the golfers and walks himself around the grounds. On sunny days you can find him laying on a bench in the shade overlooking the first tee. He is very good at his job and keeps the course pretty much free of geese.
From: Linecutter
13-Apr-17
I always chuckle when people say they are afraid of the geese when they come up hissing. I had one come up doing that when I had my 97 year old mother with me for a walk in a wheelchair. Looked at it and said "Are you really that stupid?", it did back off. If it would have started beating at us with its wings and striking with its bill, would have stepped into it, grabbed it by the neck and done a twist & swing. You know when you do that they don't bother anyone any more. Don't like doing that but I wouldn't have been able to move my mom away fast enough without the goose hurting her. DANNY
From: Eagle_eye_Andy
13-Apr-17
I had a friend in college in the 90s who worked for USDA or USFW in Alaska and his job was to shoot ducks and geese off airport wetlands and ponds. wildlife damage control was the job title. I so wanted that job!
From: The Famous Grouse
13-Apr-17
I'm no expert in Alaska game laws, but I think if you watch Life Below Zero carefully, they aren't shooting while under power. Also, I believe they have different rules for natives as far as what can be hunted and probably how. For example, I believe I read at one time that only natives can hunt seals and whales.
Anyway, who believes that reality tv is anything like reality?
Grouse
From: CJE
13-Apr-17
The Geese are awful in our neighborhood. They Crap all over everything and eat your lawn down to nothing. I've started buying extra blackcats on the 4th just to keep them out of my yard and it's worked really well this year. A couple of them thrown in their vicinity usually sends them flying.
From: wilbur
13-Apr-17
In many states there is all out war on resident geese. Here in CT it is easy to get a permit to kill resident geese from May 1st until Sept 1st. A few of the caveats; no decoys, no blinds, no calling. You can kill them but you can't hunt them.
From: Thornton
13-Apr-17
Famous Grouse- I watched them shoot 4-5 caribou bulls while under power
From: Glunt@work
13-Apr-17
Natives have been killing swimming caribou from boats forever. They didn't always have a 20 horse Mercury on the back, but they aren't the only ones who have integrated technology in to their hunting traditions.
From: StickFlicker
13-Apr-17
What about other predators that feed on the dead poisoned coyotes? Don't bears, hawks and other predators also get poisoned unintentionally?
From: Glunt@work
13-Apr-17
I'm not the Orkin guy, but my understanding is that anticoagulant poisons have very low secondary risk. No idea what would be used on gees, but it seems odd to poison geese in a park with lots of public traffic near the poison or around where the geese might expire.
I had a buddy getting started in pest control take on a pigeon job at a downtown building. He mixed up some stuff with corn, laid it out, finished his day and went home. Turned on the news and they were on location due to pigeons falling from the sky on the busy street. Whoops.
From: Backpack Hunter
13-Apr-17
There was a pretty large outcry in the last couple years because of all of the geese that were poisoned in the Raleigh NC area, mind you it was the same people that were crying about the over population of geese to begin with so......
From: ohiohunter
13-Apr-17
On Life Below Zero notice only the Natives do the shooting, Chip (I think), isn't Native so he's usually driving the boat. I also think he is an ex-felon or something b/c at one point he claimed he isn't allowed to shoot a firearm and is restricted to a primitive muzzleloader.
Its hard to watch them wound animal after animal with their dated equipment. Anyone who doesn't know better could easily relate their tactics to other hunters thus tarnishing the entire sport/tradition... or what have you.
From: shooter
13-Apr-17
shooter's Link
Thornton, I'm guessing you didn't get the "full" story. See the attached link for all approved methods to control Canada geese. No toxicants are registered. If you want to get the "full" story, give the USDA office a call and ask for the supervisor who covers that county. Their number is 1-866-4usdaws (487-3297). I promise, they'll be more than happy to give you the facts than let you run with partial truths. That number works nationwide, but you'll be connected to the office of the state you call from.
From: Thornton
14-Apr-17
I got the full story from the guy doing it. You must think you are really smart being able to see the past and all from a different state. I will just say USDA guy was was happy to tell me all his methods. He also mentioned more than once he loved his job. Its like saying that since its not legal to use certain equipment then people never use it.
From: Paul@thefort
14-Apr-17
I poisoned these local yard hopper geese with a well placed broad head. Dog had fun retrieving them so much, he thought, "he had died and went to heaven".
From: hpd503
15-Apr-17
Carbon Monoxide is how they are sometimes poisoned according to this article. I guess they get them to all in a car with a garden hose taped in the window from the tail pipe.......
https://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/07/30/why-we-cant-eat-slaughtered-geese/comment-page-4/?_r=0 Sorry couldn't get the link to take.
From: Hopeless Place
15-Apr-17
Anybody can legally shoot swimming caribou from a boat in Alaska GMU 23. There is not a race component in the law. They hide that information in the rule book.
Hunting marine mammals is governed under Federal MMPA, which enshrines racism in federal law, Don't like it, take it up with Nixon.
From: Bowriter
15-Apr-17
(1) ..."dropped medicated marshmallows from planes to treat rabies" ??? Say what??? (2) Natives or aboriginals in Alaska can kill game by any method they like for subsistence. No meat is wasted and it is all perfectly legal. I don't believe you see anyone but the natives doing it. Mr. Hailstone is a convicted felon, therefore, in the early episodes, could not even use a firearm. Recently, I have seen him shooting a muzzleloader. The rest of that show is composed mostly of non-natives and they adhere to all the game laws. (3) Anywhere there are geese and human populations, there are problems. In most cases, permits to thin the numbers may be obtained. I wish they would do the same with comorants and blue herons.
From: Bowbender
15-Apr-17
We have a decent resident population of geese here in Lancaster county, PA. Nothing but filthy damn rats with wings. At the far end of our development is a roughly 2 acre retention basin. The winged rats love it. They have basically denuded the yards around it. The HOA was told numerous times to put netting over the pond to discourage the damn things, but they would much rather repair the liner every four years. We were just told they cleaned the bottom of the pond and removed 50,000 lbs of goose sh!t. Are you kidding me. All the business parks have ponds and such and are a real magnet for the flying rats. Of course there is goose crap all over the walkways. Kill 'em. Make it less desirable to live and nest in these places.
From: shooter
15-Apr-17
Thornton, you asked a question and I provided a factual answer, with references. Poisoning geese is not legal.
FIFRA and MBTA are federal laws that apply to your question. It doesn't matter what state you, or I, am in - that's the law.
From: Teeton
15-Apr-17
Here in Northest PA ten years ago you didn't see that many geese. Now the season I believe starts September 1 and goes to March 31. They are everywhere and still I never see anyone hunting them. This fall when the corn fields get cut I may take what I've learned from our bowsite master goose hunter Paul has taught me in his posts and give it a try. I aways see them landing in the fields when I'm deer hunting.
From: Tonybear61
15-Apr-17
Many suburban areas in MN have geese problems. About 8 years ago one went after my elderly mother out for her usual walk to the grocery, drug store. She would have just moved to the other side of the walk but it was covered with algae, goose poop and a 18-12" hole. She fell and tore some tendons in her arm and hand. 3-4 months later she gets a letter form Medicare saying they want their money back since the landowner (the city) was responsible for the area, injury happened away from home. After fighting with League of Cities lawyer, getting one of our own, they finally coughed up money for her injury. Also finally fixed the sidewalk and local news reporting it was a city's plan all along to protect the seniors-which was crap story. We chased down the ownership for 3-4 months with no help from the city office, who claimed it wasn't their property. It was. They are prohibited from controlling the geese by urban bowhunting due to stupid animal rights groups and do gooders who feed the geese illegally. 30 miles to the NE where I live outside the city I believe they are hunting them 9 months of the year, still can't shoot enough of them.
Pretty sure my family and I could take a few out her patio door as they are behind the senior bldgs. every day. Lots of deer and turkeys to, but they don't attack folks...The local gang bangers, meth heads do (that is a separate story).
From: dmann
16-Apr-17
(1) ..."dropped medicated marshmallows from planes to treat rabies" ??? Say what???
Yep its true, allover the southeast. Poisoning geese, pigeons in cities, shooting geese on runways, hawks, deer, shooting gulls at jfk once, while protesters stood around them, killing off entire poultry farms in California due to a disease, cant remember what it was now. He was also asked to help with buzzards in NYC after 9/11 but refused that one.
From: Fuzzy
17-Apr-17
Bowwriter, yes USDA /APHIS is air dropping oral raccoon rabies vaccine from planes along the line of the Western Appalachians, have been for years. I think the vehicle now is a fish oil packet, rather than marshmallows, but they tried several attractant baits at first.
From: Fuzzy
17-Apr-17
http://www.bing.com/news/search?q=Usda%2fAphis+Oral+Rabies+Vaccine+Program&qpvt=USDA%2fAPHIS+oral+rabies+vaccine+program&FORM=EWRE
From: Fuzzy
17-Apr-17
my "rabies" thread from the Virginia Forum: http://forums.bowsite.com/tf/regional/thread.cfm?threadid=225174&messages=14&state=VA
From: Thornton
17-Apr-17
Shooter- Then you answered my question. We have a USDA guy poisoning geese in public places in KS. He told me in person that he does this.
From: Ollie
17-Apr-17
The people on "life below zero" are not hunting for sport. They do it to survive.
They survive off the pay checks they receive for doing the show. "Reality" shows such as this cease being reality from the moment the cameras start rolling and the pay checks get issued. Most "reality" shows are scripted.
From: Fuzzy
17-Apr-17
and yes "the feds" and some State agencies can do things in the name of nuisance reduction/control that are illegal for hunters and local residents. Case in point, in the late 90's I collected birds for West Nile Virus testing, which would've been illegal for me to possess otherwise, and I frequently collect (usually ill or deceased) wild carnivores for rabies testing for which I don't have to observe the regulatory strictures a hunter or trapper might.
From: Befuddled
19-Feb-19
My problem with the Hailstones is that they take so much. I know they have a large family but must they take all the goose eggs from the nests? Then in one episode, they shot 57 muskrats. Was that really necessary? Wonder how many them had babies waiting in their dens for a mama that would not be coming back.
From: Surfbow
19-Feb-19
I'm worried about the baby muskrats too, I lose sleep over them...
From: Steve H.
19-Feb-19
Alaska has federal subsistence laws from ANILCA (Alaska National Interest Lands Conservation Act) of 1980.
From: timex
19-Feb-19
the brest meat makes excellent jerky. & this sounds strange but marinate the breasts in olive oil red wine grape jelly & a little hot sauce. then sear in a smoking hot iron skillet
From: ground hunter
19-Feb-19
Never understood Life Below Zero,,, with the money the Hailstones get from the show, buy her a decent rifle, Chip,,,,, come on man, don't be so cheap
From: timex
20-Feb-19
hey at least she ain't toten a weatherby lazermark with a swarofski on top & claiming that if they don't get some blacktail they gonna starve ...like one of them other shows
From: WV Mountaineer
20-Feb-19
America effort to recover goose populations has went beyond successful to the point of creating a lot of serious problems.
Thornton, I’m venturing to guess the tv show has a lot to do with it. And the fact there aren’t many grocery stores around the corner in much of Alaska.
From: relliK reeD
20-Feb-19
Back in the late 70's my best friend had a summer job at a state park in Maine where he shot seagulls with a 20 gauge and poured gas on them and burned them on the beach at low tide. Man I would have done that job for nothing !
From: South Farm
20-Feb-19
"Golf courses also HATE geese"
Geese are mother nature's way of getting even;) Mow down her trees and suck her precious water for your mono-cultures and she gives you goose poop! lol!
From: Ollie
20-Feb-19
Something is not right with what this person told you. It is highly unlikely that any type of poison would be used on geese in public parks. That would generate tremendous backlash if the public was aware. In addition, it could potentially be a threat to any predator or domestic animal (dog) that consumed a goose affected by the poison. In Iowa, contractors have been used to shoot urban deer at night using bait, spot lights, and guns with noise suppression so I guess it is possible a similar approach might be used with problem geese.
From: LINK
20-Feb-19
Why did befuddled bring up a 2 year old thread? That’s my question.
From: jjs
20-Feb-19
Remember when my youngest son, 3 yr old, went to a park in Milwaukee and I told him to stay on the path, nope he ran out on the grass and slip. His whole back from head to feet was cover with goose crap, not a good ride back to the tub.
Remember well a Canadian was special to get during the hunt, now that is all one see, kind like turkeys, no pheasants, quail or grouse just the ground buzzards that took over.
From: timex
20-Feb-19
when I was a kid (I'm 57 now) I remember duck hunting back bay which is south of VA beach & the sky was white with snow geese & they were protected ...what a waterfowl management disaster that led to & now the urban area Canadian goose problems
From: DL
20-Feb-19
Medicated Marshmellows. I guess the homeless won’t be getting rabies after putting them in their hot coco. We were at a friends in Lake Tahoe at the keys where everyone has a boat dock. There’s had 4” of goose crap in it. The lawns weren’t mowed just used sweepers to pick up the goose crap. With tons of nitrogen rich goose crap going into the lake it’s no wonder the water isn’t as clear as it once was. As a kid growing up I would have been very thrilled to ever shot one. Now after mounting a few I really don’t want one. What a greasy mess.
From: BIGHORN
20-Feb-19
I wish that they would get rid of the thousands of geese around our place. Try walking down a path and you step in their crap. They walk across the roads and traffic stops to let them go through. They are a real menace in my neighborhood.
From: Linecutter
20-Feb-19
Thornton, you gave him IV Dilaudid and you believed him, when he started rambling? You should know better than that. DANNY
