Trail Camera restrictions in Az
Contributors to this thread:General Topic
From: Beendare
05-Mar-18
Well this is going to tick off the outfitters in Arizona.....you know the ones with thousands of Trail cams out covering every stinking water hole in the state.
The Az Fair chase committee is considering outlawing Trailcams within 400yds of a water hole.
I say, "Finally!"
To those that disagree.....well how is it fair chase when there are outfitters with 900 trail cams out on national forest land? They have these bulls nicknamed before the season for criss sake....... with a bounty on their heads.
That doesn't seem 'Fair chase' to me....kudos to the Fair Chase committee in Az for recognizing this....and putting the 'hunting' back in the sport.
From: Elkhorn
05-Mar-18
Trailcam pics don’t guarantee anything. Just one small piece of the puzzle
From: wyliecoyote
05-Mar-18
I can watch one waterhole at a time....guides with numerous TC sites can observe and plan exponentially...I am with Beendare on this one...Some TC's actually take video and send it back to a cell phone for live time viewing.....over the top for me..
From: Overland
05-Mar-18
Is it even legal to leave trail cams on public land in AZ? In NY, nothing may be left on public land for longer than 24 hours. This means no treestands, no trail cams, etc. Of course thousands of hunters break this law every year, but it is still a law.
I hope AZ's law will not apply to private land, and I don't see how it could. If AZ makes it illegal, outfitters will still do it. However, if it is known to be illegal, others could feel justified taking the cameras. I personally don't take treestands or cameras I find on public land in NY, even though I know it's illegal for them to be there.
From: ryanrc
05-Mar-18
I kind of like that law. To me, if there are too many cameras out, it is kind of like littering. It takes away from the wilderness feeling when you are 3 miles back and keep walking past cameras all the time.....I haven't been in AZ but other states it has annoyed me. I even have a trail camera too, so I am guilty. But when you are out in the middle of nowhere it does bother me to look over and think, crap, is that thing videoing me right now.
From: DMC65
05-Mar-18
Hope they do ban them . Most of the time they are put up to say " my spot , stay out ." I counted four cameras on one water hole in Arizona. I was real tempted to hang a tree stand on the main drag bull trail about 300 yds down the ridge. Slam dunk location . Would have except I killed a bull before I was worn out enough to want to hunt from a tree.
From: David A.
05-Mar-18
It would be nice also if there were ten times the number of water holes that actually held water...
From: Knothead
05-Mar-18
Theft has already been an issue here in AZ. As already mentioned, If this rule passes I'm afraid others will think it's now justifiable theft. I only have 5 or 6 cameras but I have not put them near water in years because too many came up missing. Now I have to deal with the shed hunters and adjust to them being in the woods. Usually put my cams up in July after the 4th weekend. As far as the rule goes, I'm kind of indifferent. I hate always having more regulations and restrictions put on me but at the same time some people really teeter on the fair chase fence with regard to camera usage.
From: BOWUNTR
05-Mar-18
They should have banned the use of radios before cameras... 100% not Fair Chase. Cameras are questionable on Fair Chase IMO. I have mixed feelings on the ban as I just started using them the last couple of years as a scouting tool. I've spent more time in the woods using them than I ever have. I have enough spots now that I don't need them anymore. I'm fine with it but just disappointed that everyone gets regulated because of a few who abused it. Just wondering what's next... Ed F
From: Beendare
05-Mar-18
Overland, yes it is currently legal to leave out Trail cams. A well known outfitter admitted to me they have over 900 cameras out in AZ....and thats in only 4-5 units.
Someone above said they have seen a few cams at a waterhole....I've heard stories of more than that.....
Has anyone seen more than a half dozen
From: Tilzbow
05-Mar-18
“I'm fine with it but just disappointed that everyone gets regulated because of a few who abused it. Just wondering what's next... Ed F”
Pretty much the reason all laws are on the books! Nevada’s new shed hunting season is another good example.
From: llamapacker
06-Mar-18
I've seen pictures of waterholes on the AZ strip with over 20 cameras! The number of game cameras is out of hand, and unfortunately must be regulated. Very sad. Bill
From: llamapacker
06-Mar-18
I've seen pictures of waterholes on the AZ strip with over 20 cameras! The number of game cameras is out of hand, and unfortunately must be regulated. Very sad. Bill
From: llamapacker
06-Mar-18
I've seen pictures of waterholes on the AZ strip with over 20 cameras! The number of game cameras is out of hand, and unfortunately must be regulated. Very sad. Bill
From: elkstabber
06-Mar-18
Thank you Beendare for bringing this up. The biggest problem I've seen is how with enough cameras out the outfitter feels invested because of his cost. With his cost comes a form of ownership. The owners of the cameras begin to feel like they own the area around the waterhole. This makes the fight over waterholes even worse!
From: lawdy
06-Mar-18
Cameras up here are used mainly by baiters. I own one but use it for a lynx study I am doing. It is set up in a hare swamp 3 miles in the woods. I check it every two weeks. So far, 78 pictures of coyotes, 2 lynx, 12 bobcats, 2 eagles, 5 turkeys, 1 fisher, several pine martins, and no deer. The big thing up here is radios. Lone hunters like myself don't use them but the gang hunters sure do. The wardens monitor them and have special radios.
From: APauls
06-Mar-18
Outfitters prob throw 20 different cams on the same waterhole. That way someone walks up and says, "holy crap this would be retarded to hunt here." Walks away and looks for a less "populated" area. Good place to hang all your cams that don't work anymore.
From: AZrecurve
06-Mar-18
This is a direct result from what's happening up on The Strip. It's long past ridiculous on what's happening up there with guides and outfitters. They've taken carte blanche ownership of every drinker up there.
We'll see if this reins them in or even if it's enforceable.
From: Don K
06-Mar-18
The guy that gets to walk around with bolt cutters or a baseball bat after this passes (IF) is gonna have some fun............
From: StickFlicker
06-Mar-18
Here is the current rule change proposal. Contrary to some of the things I've heard people "believe" about the proposal, it doesn't say anything about applying only during hunting seasons and it makes no differentiation between private and public land.
From: Franklin
06-Mar-18
Not a fan of Trail cams either....don`t use them myself.
From: axle2axle
06-Mar-18
Stickflicker...item 6 from your list above...am I reading no using Google Earth to scout out locations to hunt? Wow...that's a bunch of folks using GE to aid in selecting hunting spots! I must be missing something, right?
From: Outdoordan
06-Mar-18
I hunted the strip this year and to illuminate the issue, we walked into a guzzler that held about a gallon or two of water, no lie. It was a teeny little watering spot and there were either 4 or 5 cameras doing a semi circle around one side (non sun side) stuck into the ground on t-fence poles. Any buck that came to it couldn't even make it through the t-fence poles and had to drink from the one side. It was crazy. I can see arguments from both sides of this issue although it does take away from the mystery of a hunt when every buck on the mountain is named and accounted for.
From: LKH
06-Mar-18
This is just another tech issue that has taken the hunt out of hunting. We're fast becoming a group of people who go out and shoot without first hunting. I have 2 trail cams. I put them out after season to see what survived.
I hope every state eventually realizes that trail cams take away from hunting. Yes they make it easier for you to kill something and maybe you should consider that a negative, not a positive.
From: Medicinemann
06-Mar-18
How will they enforce #6? You could have scouted the area months before the season....am I reading this wrong?
From: Coyote 65
06-Mar-18
Used the satellite after my bull was down to find a road that was about 50 yds from the down elk. I would have never looked in real time as it was uphill from the elk. Turned a half mile recovery into half hour recover (includes breaks to get the heart rate back under 300 bps.)
Terry
From: IdyllwildArcher
06-Mar-18
I think #6 is to prevent the use of satellite phones and potentially satellite enabled cameras from locating game in real time.
From: StickFlicker
07-Mar-18
I too wondered that about #6. I assume they are talking about getting such photos in real time, not archived pictures like Google Earth. Maybe they're being proactive about future technology?
From: Beendare
08-Mar-18
Great, everyone agrees!
This surprises me as when I talked to an outfitter before my Az elk hunt in 2013 he told me that had 900 TC out in just the units they hunt in Az....I would think they are lobbying hard to stop this proposal....even just to preserve their TC investment. I think ElkStabber makes a good point about insinuated ownership.
Keeping hunting a fair chase sport helps all of us.I bet other states follow. If I'm not mistaken, MT requires removal of TC's prior to the season.
Now I see whitetail hunting on private ground as an entirely different issue...no problem with cams there.
From: 7 Points
08-Mar-18
Explain to me how this is going to stop the use of trail cameras. Now everyone will put them 1/4 mile from water on every trail and fence line. And, catch the wording, "developed water source". What is their definition of developed? Also, if I am a birdwatcher, and just want pics to enjoy them, it is legal. There are so many holes in this, you wont see a difference.
From: Beendare
08-Mar-18
Who said its going to stop the use of TC's?
From: Ollie
08-Mar-18
Just shows that the "one size fits all" mentality does not apply to all issues. Clearly trail cameras are a problem in some areas. In other areas, not so much.
From: AZ~Rich
08-Mar-18
So if this passes, the image portrayed on your GPS of the route you want to use to get to your hunting spot in the dark would now be illegal?
From: wheels
12-Mar-18
I hunted unit 9 in 2014, several of the water holes I stopped by had at least a dozen if not more cameras on them. I’m not much of a water sitter, but it got out of control when guys were driving up to the water holes 30 minutes before dark to “check” their cameras. Often on trails that were closed to off road traffic.
From: Zim1
12-Mar-18
Our sport needs more legislation that improves hunting/wildlife, such as this, than crap like allowing crossgun use in archery seasons. I’m in favor of this, and much more. Should ban bounty hunters as well.
From: Elkhorn
12-Mar-18
I’d be careful to wish for more regulations...,but I’ve not run into 1 trail camera on public land in Canada never mind 20 on one water hole. That is a different world. I also rarely, rarely see other hunters on public land in the area I hunt.
From: Paul@thefort
12-Mar-18
I read the possible "regulations" in yellow above. It seems I can use a standard trail camera (not a live camera) but not within 440 yards from a DEVELOPED, water source. I might define DEVELOPMENT as a man made developed water tank, dug water hole, but not a free running natural stream or seep, or even a water hole that occurred after a rain storm and that collected in a depression. I might use one at a fence crossing, over an agriculture salt block, or on a trail. Seems like this proposed regulation does not totally ban their use. Am I wrong? my best, Paul
From: StickFlicker
13-Mar-18
Paul, that is my understanding as well.
From: APauls
13-Mar-18
While I love checking a trail cam I must admit I'd rather they were abolished. Reason being I think people would enjoy the actual hunt more. I do know people that consider themselves to be advance bowhunters that will check cameras during the rut and if they don't see something they like, they won't even hunt. We're talking the rut here. Like the time of year when anything could show up at any time.
From: NoWiser
13-Mar-18
I like this. Radios/cell phones should be next on the list.
From: Bowriter
13-Mar-18
LOL- And a year or so ago, when i said almost exactly the same thing re trail cams, I got vilified. I am with AZ on this and think all states should take a look trail cam use.
From: Beendare
13-Mar-18
Its good to see most agree.....but no doubt the Arizona outfitters are going to disagree with this.
The way I see it they brought it on themselves by overdoing it. I would love to be a fly on the wall listening to an outfitter trying to justify 900 cameras to the Fair chase committee.
I don't have a problem with cameras on private property...but public ground/national forest should be managed equally for the public and protected from abusive practices-that includes cattle ranchers.
From: Zim1
13-Mar-18
Exactly. Private is fine, but not on public. I had both NR deer & elk archery tags in Arizona last year, and can't recall but perhaps one water hole without a cam. It was just too much. I have to believe these often affect mature game movements.
From: APauls
13-Mar-18
The good news is that the lazier other people get due to trail cams, the more it gives a real hunter the advantage in comparison ;)
