Scar Finga's Link
Although this is a proposed change for disabled persons in AZ, with a crossbow permit, they are suggesting that permit holders can use an Airbow type weapon during archery season...
R12-4-216. Crossbow Permit (Proposed Revision)
"The objective of the rule is to establish eligibility requirements, conditions, and restrictions for the crossbow permit. The permit allows a person, who cannot draw and hold a bow, to use a crossbow during an archery-only hunt. The Commission proposes to amend the rule to allow a Crossbow Permit holder to use a pre-charged pneumatic weapon, as defined under R12-4-301, using bolts or arrows for the take of wildlife. This change is proposed as a result of customer comments received by the Department".
As noted above, if you hunt in AZ, you want to read through some of the changes. They address drones, artificial lures for fishing and several other items.
Soooooo, what are your thoughts?
I agree 100 percent!
I am in contact with the ABA and and we will hopefully get something done.
I honestly wish we would just do away with everything besides truly primitive self bows, stone heads and the like. Make technology such as tree stands and ground blinds illegal. Who's with me?
I guess if you want to get worked up what a disabled hunter uses then go ahead but honestly, if a guy who can't walk or has no use of their limbs wants to use an air bow - go ahead. Your life is tough and I live a blessed one.
When they are being used during the regular archery season by regular hunters in states like Idaho or Arizona then you can call me out.
I have already seen too many abuses of guys(WAGS) hunting with crossbows during archery season because they have a Dr. note.
I think you make a good point suggesting that perhaps the practice that allows temporarily injured hunters to use alternate weapons in a bowhunting season should be discontinued now that Point Guard is in place to restore their bonus points rather than their losing years worth of points on a hunt they can no longer take. Allowing hunters that have become recently injured the opportunity to change weapons (crossbow, airbow, etc.) right before a hunt, to one that they likely have very little experience and practice using, likely results in higher wound/loss rates than someone that is experienced and proficient with their weapon. You have seen that first hand in the field, watching a crossbow shooter with essentially a temporary scratch on his hand and a doctor's note in his pocket wounding and losing antelope after antelope with a weapon he had no business shooting at wildlife. Have you sent an email to the Commissioners making that argument? I think it's a very good one.
I just want to make sure I follow the logic. To break the law, they’ll make sure they’re legal to do so first?
Look, this whole airbow thing is a joke no doubt.
I totally want them in a season for disabled people.
And as to the argument about people with a crossbow not being proficient. Let’s not forget that the basis of the argument is that the cross bow is easier. You can’t eat your cake and have it too.
And just to be clear, I want only real bows in the archery season with the exception of young children and disabled persons.
As far as youth go, in AZ you must be 10 years old to hunt big game. We have many juniors only hunts and even though they are rifle hunts you can use a crossbow or traditional bow if you want. These hunts are usually during great times of year where weather is great and very little pressure. No need to allow crossbows or air bows that are pre-cocked and ready to rock.
Two years ago, I saw two different woman walking around with their BF/husband and hunting elk with a crossbow. The year before that I saw another female hunter doing the same thing. I guess I never knew their were so many disabled female hunters out there.
While that may or may not be the case, it still looks like you imply that the only way somebody will have one in the vehicle ready to use illegally, is if they’re allowed in the season. When the reality is, if they’re not allowed at all, somebody will still use them to poach. Poachers don’t make sure they’re legal first.
As far as a real bow goes, I shoot the dreaded compound with a release and a sight and a fall away rest.
A compound may not be considered a real bow by many. And that’s ok by me.
Many don’t consider tree stand and ground blinds real methods. Again, that’s ok by me. And if the argument is accuracy and proficiency with a weapon, probably better not get started on the overwhelming majority of recurve and long bow shooters....something about the broadside of a barn comes To mind
They already have the option of using a crossbow, no need for this rifle looking thing to be out there during archery season....
In BC, crossbows are legal in all archery seasons, by everyone. We don't have a lot of archery only areas or seasons and just a small hand full of archery only draws. But the first nine days of September are GOS for archery for many species. The bush is crawling with "bow hunters" for that nine days and many with crossbows. The number of participants in that first nine days has gone up in step with the portability and accuracy of crossbows. And then the bow hunter numbers drop to near zero on September tenth with the opening of rifle. We are not allowed to have a cocked crossbow on a quad or in a vehicle, making those quick shots take a lot longer. And yes, I agree a very small percentage of criminals break that law. I've never seen or held one and my only knowledge of them is watching Jim Schocky on TV. But it looks to me like the Airbow is charged and ready to go with the exception of sliding an arrow in. And "unloaded" the same way if you see the warden. Not so easy with a crossbow.
Again, opportunity and temptation. This reminds me of the saying "locks keep honest people honest". Thieves (or poachers) are more determined.
Anyway. I don't have a dog in the Airbow fight for your or anybody else's state. In BC they are considered a firearm by provincial law and by wildlife regulation. I hope it stays that way.
On a side note, I've seen a few shows that the guys were hunting a muzzle loader season with new long range guns. One was "seven hundred yards capable" out of the box with a long range scope and matched turrets. The gray areas between the black and white are getting wider and wider.
If one Dr says no, you just got to the next one and Dr shop. Before California legalized recreational pot and after they legalized medicinal pot, it was widely known which doctors you could go to in order to get your card.
If they're legalized for "disabled hunters," anyone who wants to get ok'd to use one, can and will get the note needed from a doctor, just as able bodied men and women do now for crossbows.
Watch what you wish for.......
The ABA has been contacted by individuals who disagree with the limitation of archery hunting within a 1/4 mile of private properties and we have been debating the issue in the previous weeks. However, this is off topic from this thread.
Unofficially, the ABA does not support the Air bow in an archery season. I say unofficially because as of this time we have not all sat down, debated, and concluded with an agreement upon one stance or another. However, I do know for a fact that most of us do not support the air bow in an archery season.
The ABA has currently been discussing methods of challenging other regulations. I promise you that this discourse of the air bow will be thoroughly debated amongst the ABA. Upon reaching a conclusion of agreement, a POA (plan of action) will be developed to likely challenge this regulation. When the time comes, we hope that all Arizona Bowhunters who agree will stand behind us.
We welcome all Arizona Bowhunters to open a discussion with us to voice your concerns. Feel free to contact us via messages on Facebook. Or drop by one of our monthly meetings. We do our best to make our monthly meeting dates/times known to the public so that each of you have the opportunity to come open discussion with us and voice your concerns. You are even welcome to just come and observe or listen in if you are interested in hearing about things we are currently working on and planning for. If you are interested in learning more about the ABA, what we do and what we are currently working on, the best opportunity is to attend our upcoming Fundraising Banquet at the end of March.
Thank you to all of the bowhunters in Arizona for participating in this discussion. Without sharing and challenging each others ideas we cannot grow intellectually and keep our public officials and lawmakers in check.
The airbow is part of the same rule change as the trail camera issue and 1/4 mile bow shooting prohibition from buildings. Not to be critical, but according to this article (from more than a month ago) the 30 day time to comment is likely about over. When might the ABA do all this discussion and form a plan of action? It was my understanding that the Commission was planning to vote on it in a meeting in Douglas in the very near future. If it wasn't virtually impossible to find anything by searching on the AZGFD website, I'd try to tell you when that is scheduled (the link to the meeting schedule I could find on their website only shows through 2016).
It would appear that I have to eat some crow, I made a mistake about the Arizona Bowhunters Association and I am in contact with them. You and they have my deepest apologies! I have edited my posts above.
I will be sending my comments/ suggestions to AZGFD today.
God Bless and please pass the ketchup, Crow tastes horrible!
".... no, honestly, I'll just put the tip in, and just a little bit...."
It seems the Arizona Bow Hunters missed this.
I am a Life Member of the Iowa Bow Hunters Association and they have Liasions with the Iowa DNR and a paid lobbyist to work the State Legislatures. Nothing like this would proceed without their input. IBA is the most effective State Bow Hunting Organization I am aware of.
Perhaps Arizona Bow Hunters have had input and if so my apologies. C
As far as I have heard, and discussed with others here in AZ, no input was received by AZ bowhunters, that is just from my learning's...
Moving forward, I would urge Arizona bowhunters to get involved! I am going to start attending meetings with the ABA, and I am going to the Banquet as well. If we don't start banning together, we are going to lose everything we have! I find it interesting that Charlie is not even an AZ resident, and he is helping out greatly! Thank you so much Charlie, we definitely need the help and support of ALL bowhunters!