AIR BOW COMMING TO AZ!
General Topic
Contributors to this thread:
Scar Finga 16-Mar-18
Chris S 16-Mar-18
greg simon 16-Mar-18
elkstabber 16-Mar-18
elkstabber 16-Mar-18
Scar Finga 16-Mar-18
LUNG$HOT 16-Mar-18
LINK 16-Mar-18
Bowboy 16-Mar-18
Ambush 16-Mar-18
HDE 16-Mar-18
JTV 16-Mar-18
tradmt 16-Mar-18
Shawn 16-Mar-18
JTV 16-Mar-18
BC173 16-Mar-18
Bigdan 16-Mar-18
Glunt@work 16-Mar-18
Sage Buffalo 16-Mar-18
powder 16-Mar-18
Daff 17-Mar-18
Woods Walker 17-Mar-18
Knothead 17-Mar-18
bigdog21 17-Mar-18
WhitetailHtr 17-Mar-18
StickFlicker 17-Mar-18
kentuckbowhnter 17-Mar-18
'Ike' (Phone) 17-Mar-18
oldgoat 18-Mar-18
Ambush 18-Mar-18
DConcrete 18-Mar-18
Knothead 18-Mar-18
Matt 18-Mar-18
Ambush 18-Mar-18
bigdog21 18-Mar-18
DConcrete 18-Mar-18
'Ike' (Phone) 18-Mar-18
hunting dad 18-Mar-18
Ambush 18-Mar-18
DConcrete 18-Mar-18
IdyllwildArcher 18-Mar-18
Ambush 18-Mar-18
Woods Walker 18-Mar-18
Arizonabowhunter 19-Mar-18
Scar Finga 19-Mar-18
Ned 19-Mar-18
StickFlicker 19-Mar-18
StickFlicker 19-Mar-18
Knothead 20-Mar-18
Scar Finga 20-Mar-18
smarba 20-Mar-18
Scar Finga 20-Mar-18
Charlie Rehor 20-Mar-18
Charlie Rehor 21-Mar-18
Ambush 21-Mar-18
Charlie Rehor 21-Mar-18
Scar Finga 21-Mar-18
From: Scar Finga
16-Mar-18

Scar Finga's Link
There are multiple proposed changes, please use the link below to read them all.

Although this is a proposed change for disabled persons in AZ, with a crossbow permit, they are suggesting that permit holders can use an Airbow type weapon during archery season...

R12-4-216. Crossbow Permit (Proposed Revision)

"The objective of the rule is to establish eligibility requirements, conditions, and restrictions for the crossbow permit. The permit allows a person, who cannot draw and hold a bow, to use a crossbow during an archery-only hunt. The Commission proposes to amend the rule to allow a Crossbow Permit holder to use a pre-charged pneumatic weapon, as defined under R12-4-301, using bolts or arrows for the take of wildlife. This change is proposed as a result of customer comments received by the Department".

As noted above, if you hunt in AZ, you want to read through some of the changes. They address drones, artificial lures for fishing and several other items.

Soooooo, what are your thoughts?

From: Chris S
16-Mar-18
How the hell donthey call it air bow? Nothing about it is even remotely related to a bow! Air gun, Airbolt shooter, Airarrow launcher?

From: greg simon
16-Mar-18
Absolutely does not belong in any type of archery season. Tell me what is the difference in this and a "gunpowder bow"!!! Hell, I have a gunpowder bow that fires small "arrows" at about 3000 feet per second!

From: elkstabber
16-Mar-18

elkstabber's embedded Photo
elkstabber's embedded Photo
Scar, my first thought is that you need to educate your wildlife board commissioners on what an "airbow" actually is. Most think it sounds like a good idea until they realize that it looks like this.

From: elkstabber
16-Mar-18
My second thought is that Arizona's Bowhunters Association (ABA) needs to adopt an official position on the "airbow/arrowgun" so that the wildlife board commissioners and your lawmakers all know where the ABA stands. The ABA needs to do this quickly.

From: Scar Finga
16-Mar-18
Elkstabber and others,

I agree 100 percent!

I am in contact with the ABA and and we will hopefully get something done.

From: LUNG$HOT
16-Mar-18
Seems that nowadays you could take a 30-06 and slap a sticker on it that says “30-06 bow” and it’ll definitely be legal in archery season within a year or two! Wow.

From: LINK
16-Mar-18
In today’s world, where people don’t know what gender they are, we need a special season for these weapons that don’t know what they are. If they go to the gun season the feel out of place. If the go to the bow season they face hatred and slander. They need their own safe season where they can feel safe being themselves.

From: Bowboy
16-Mar-18
Put it in with the muzzleloader season or ban it all together. Next they'll want it in the Olympics.

From: Ambush
16-Mar-18
Just keep calling it a high powered assault bow or AR-Bow and problem solved.

From: HDE
16-Mar-18
Call it what it really is, a speargun.

From: JTV
16-Mar-18

JTV's embedded Photo
JTV's embedded Photo

From: tradmt
16-Mar-18
Does it really matter anymore? It's really not much different than a crossbow.

I honestly wish we would just do away with everything besides truly primitive self bows, stone heads and the like. Make technology such as tree stands and ground blinds illegal. Who's with me?

From: Shawn
16-Mar-18
Not many tradmt, I don't like crossbows at all but to say this thing is "not much different than a crossbow" is truly an unintelligent statement to put it nicely. Read JVT's post!! Shawn

From: JTV
16-Mar-18
Hand drawn, hand held vertically shot equipment should in the ARCHERY season.... all SHOULDER fired tools should be in the gun season ... period ..

From: BC173
16-Mar-18
My sentiments exactly, JTV. You cant give them an inch!!!

From: Bigdan
16-Mar-18
Why don't they just use a gun tags are much easer to draw

From: Glunt@work
16-Mar-18
I guess the slope is as slippery as some of us thought.

From: Sage Buffalo
16-Mar-18
It's for disabled hunters - I get the slippery slope but you can't use crossbow in any western states during bow season even though they have on the east coast for years and it's proven in the states I live or hunt to have had very little impact to bow season.

I guess if you want to get worked up what a disabled hunter uses then go ahead but honestly, if a guy who can't walk or has no use of their limbs wants to use an air bow - go ahead. Your life is tough and I live a blessed one.

When they are being used during the regular archery season by regular hunters in states like Idaho or Arizona then you can call me out.

From: powder
16-Mar-18
All weapons using a trigger or trigger pull device should be used during gun season! Including any bow fired using a release!

From: Daff
17-Mar-18
Interesting The Tennessee conservation league had a survey the other day about Air bows. I think there is a proposal going before the commission about legalizing them for use during the archery season no handicap required. There were some other proposals but they wouldn't pretain on bowsite. Suffice to say they are trying to push the envelope on every special season.

From: Woods Walker
17-Mar-18
I'm no fan of the airgun as it's NOT a bow (and should NOT be in archery season) because the energy to propel the arrow doesn't come from that stored in drawn limbs, but ALL bows are "shoulder fired" in that the bow is in line with the shoulder and the shoulder(s) is/are the anchor for shooting the weapon. Physics is physics.

From: Knothead
17-Mar-18
AZ has many options already for disabled hunters. No need to go down this path IMO. JTV's description is a very good one and one AZGFD would be wise to adhere to. If disability is due to an injury and temporary where you can't draw your bow, we now have point guard and you can turn in your tag and not lose points. This is one of the reasons why point guard was created and why I like it.

I have already seen too many abuses of guys(WAGS) hunting with crossbows during archery season because they have a Dr. note.

From: bigdog21
17-Mar-18
we had the same thought about the compound when it came out. it did not look like a bow with all them wheels and cable's then them funky mechanical heads that look like they were from another planet and all the fancy gadgets hanging on the funny looking thing called a bow. (you get the picture) same thing just a different times new technology. and its called archery season because a arrow arches threw the air not bow season.

From: WhitetailHtr
17-Mar-18
I think Powder may be on to something, really. Make archery season for any bow that is totally hand drawn with fingers on the string, and released with fingers, and fingers only, on the string. I've shot both trad and compound, and his idea may be the only one that I've read that can keep everything "else" out of the archery season.

From: StickFlicker
17-Mar-18
Knothead,

I think you make a good point suggesting that perhaps the practice that allows temporarily injured hunters to use alternate weapons in a bowhunting season should be discontinued now that Point Guard is in place to restore their bonus points rather than their losing years worth of points on a hunt they can no longer take. Allowing hunters that have become recently injured the opportunity to change weapons (crossbow, airbow, etc.) right before a hunt, to one that they likely have very little experience and practice using, likely results in higher wound/loss rates than someone that is experienced and proficient with their weapon. You have seen that first hand in the field, watching a crossbow shooter with essentially a temporary scratch on his hand and a doctor's note in his pocket wounding and losing antelope after antelope with a weapon he had no business shooting at wildlife. Have you sent an email to the Commissioners making that argument? I think it's a very good one.

17-Mar-18
its an assault bow.

17-Mar-18
Scary assault bow, ban it now! :-)

From: oldgoat
18-Mar-18
Wouldn't really bother me if a permanently severely disabled person used one, but not temporarily disabled ones.

From: Ambush
18-Mar-18
The airbow gun would be the obvious choice for poaching from a vehicle. Easy to maneuver and shoot from inside. Drive by poaching and return later will likely get a slight up-tick.

From: DConcrete
18-Mar-18
And ambush, just to be clear, you assume that they will only do this with an airbow if they’re allowed in archery season?

I just want to make sure I follow the logic. To break the law, they’ll make sure they’re legal to do so first?

Look, this whole airbow thing is a joke no doubt.

I totally want them in a season for disabled people.

And as to the argument about people with a crossbow not being proficient. Let’s not forget that the basis of the argument is that the cross bow is easier. You can’t eat your cake and have it too.

And just to be clear, I want only real bows in the archery season with the exception of young children and disabled persons.

From: Knothead
18-Mar-18
Arizona already has seasons for permanently disabled hunters so there is no need to make a new rule. Why do we have to complicate things? Hunt the the disabled hunt, use any method of take you choose all while shooting from a vehicle if you want OR apply for regular traditional hunts and follow the rules in place for method of take that everyone must abide by.

As far as youth go, in AZ you must be 10 years old to hunt big game. We have many juniors only hunts and even though they are rifle hunts you can use a crossbow or traditional bow if you want. These hunts are usually during great times of year where weather is great and very little pressure. No need to allow crossbows or air bows that are pre-cocked and ready to rock.

Two years ago, I saw two different woman walking around with their BF/husband and hunting elk with a crossbow. The year before that I saw another female hunter doing the same thing. I guess I never knew their were so many disabled female hunters out there.

From: Matt
18-Mar-18
It's like the ebike of bows.

From: Ambush
18-Mar-18
Dc, I'm not commenting on disabled hunters. I'm simply saying that if AirBows are allowed in regular archery seasons, there will be may more of them in the field and the potential for abuse is multiplied by those numbers AND by their inherent ease of use. I'm also not implying that anyone using one is apt to be a poacher. It's much harder to get away with having a cocked crossbow in a vehicle or on an ATV or to shoot a bow or crossbow from a vehicle window. That's obvious.

From: bigdog21
18-Mar-18
DC what is a real bow? one without wheels ? are triggers? I shoot a real bow not a wheel bow. 3/4 of you wouldn't be bow hunting if technology got blocked I remember when the compound came out the devil bow. same thing just a different time.

From: DConcrete
18-Mar-18
If they’re allowed in the season there’ll be many more of them in the field?

While that may or may not be the case, it still looks like you imply that the only way somebody will have one in the vehicle ready to use illegally, is if they’re allowed in the season. When the reality is, if they’re not allowed at all, somebody will still use them to poach. Poachers don’t make sure they’re legal first.

As far as a real bow goes, I shoot the dreaded compound with a release and a sight and a fall away rest.

A compound may not be considered a real bow by many. And that’s ok by me.

Many don’t consider tree stand and ground blinds real methods. Again, that’s ok by me. And if the argument is accuracy and proficiency with a weapon, probably better not get started on the overwhelming majority of recurve and long bow shooters....something about the broadside of a barn comes To mind

18-Mar-18
“I totally want them in a season for disabled people.”

They already have the option of using a crossbow, no need for this rifle looking thing to be out there during archery season....

From: hunting dad
18-Mar-18
Scar, I read this thread and found your post interesting. I contacted the ABA and asked their stand on this and many of the other proposed changes at G&F. I suggested they visit this thread and I now have an open dialog going with Mike and Hunter Wall, along with Randy Phillips. We need to get vocal and let G&F know where we stand on this.

From: Ambush
18-Mar-18
If they are not allowed for hunting there will be little reason for anybody to buy them, so there numbers will be very small and probably some will be bought by premeditated poachers. If they are allowed, you will definitely see people buying them as a short cut to archery to take advantage of those seasons. I believe many poaching's are "crimes of opportunity" and the AirBow will make it easier to act on that opportunity.

In BC, crossbows are legal in all archery seasons, by everyone. We don't have a lot of archery only areas or seasons and just a small hand full of archery only draws. But the first nine days of September are GOS for archery for many species. The bush is crawling with "bow hunters" for that nine days and many with crossbows. The number of participants in that first nine days has gone up in step with the portability and accuracy of crossbows. And then the bow hunter numbers drop to near zero on September tenth with the opening of rifle. We are not allowed to have a cocked crossbow on a quad or in a vehicle, making those quick shots take a lot longer. And yes, I agree a very small percentage of criminals break that law. I've never seen or held one and my only knowledge of them is watching Jim Schocky on TV. But it looks to me like the Airbow is charged and ready to go with the exception of sliding an arrow in. And "unloaded" the same way if you see the warden. Not so easy with a crossbow.

Again, opportunity and temptation. This reminds me of the saying "locks keep honest people honest". Thieves (or poachers) are more determined.

Anyway. I don't have a dog in the Airbow fight for your or anybody else's state. In BC they are considered a firearm by provincial law and by wildlife regulation. I hope it stays that way.

On a side note, I've seen a few shows that the guys were hunting a muzzle loader season with new long range guns. One was "seven hundred yards capable" out of the box with a long range scope and matched turrets. The gray areas between the black and white are getting wider and wider.

From: DConcrete
18-Mar-18
So legal in any weapon season or not? Your post has a couple of double standards in there. You said, not allowed in any season, and then you said allowed in the rifle season. So which is it? Thank you

18-Mar-18
Side note, anyone can get a doctor's note for anything. Evidence being every moron with a lap dog being able to take them on planes and in restaurants because they're a "comfort animal."

If one Dr says no, you just got to the next one and Dr shop. Before California legalized recreational pot and after they legalized medicinal pot, it was widely known which doctors you could go to in order to get your card.

If they're legalized for "disabled hunters," anyone who wants to get ok'd to use one, can and will get the note needed from a doctor, just as able bodied men and women do now for crossbows.

From: Ambush
18-Mar-18
Dc, not sure what your question is but: In BC, anyone can use a crossbow in an archery only season or area. Anyone can use a bow or crossbow in any season and any area open for hunting. I use a bow for all hunting. For big game we only have two restrictions; archery only, and a few small areas of shotgun, with shot only, for deer. No special muzzle loader seasons for the past thirty five years.

From: Woods Walker
18-Mar-18
They should have a rule that if you claim to be disabled in order to get special weapons, or handicapped parking, or "medicinal" dope and they find out after you get it that you're not, then they should be able to MAKE you disabled so you're in compliance with the law!

Watch what you wish for.......

19-Mar-18
Scar: As far as I know, the ABA has not received your inquiry. I apologize and hope to find an open discussion with you in the near future. And I do not believe that we lurk on bowsite. Thank you to Hunting Dad for bringing this thread to our attention. We were unaware of the growing concern regarding this regulation, and the ABA's "lack of public stance" until now. I personally have found this important discussion intriguing and hope to find the time to read more on these forums.

The ABA has been contacted by individuals who disagree with the limitation of archery hunting within a 1/4 mile of private properties and we have been debating the issue in the previous weeks. However, this is off topic from this thread.

Unofficially, the ABA does not support the Air bow in an archery season. I say unofficially because as of this time we have not all sat down, debated, and concluded with an agreement upon one stance or another. However, I do know for a fact that most of us do not support the air bow in an archery season.

The ABA has currently been discussing methods of challenging other regulations. I promise you that this discourse of the air bow will be thoroughly debated amongst the ABA. Upon reaching a conclusion of agreement, a POA (plan of action) will be developed to likely challenge this regulation. When the time comes, we hope that all Arizona Bowhunters who agree will stand behind us.

We welcome all Arizona Bowhunters to open a discussion with us to voice your concerns. Feel free to contact us via messages on Facebook. Or drop by one of our monthly meetings. We do our best to make our monthly meeting dates/times known to the public so that each of you have the opportunity to come open discussion with us and voice your concerns. You are even welcome to just come and observe or listen in if you are interested in hearing about things we are currently working on and planning for. If you are interested in learning more about the ABA, what we do and what we are currently working on, the best opportunity is to attend our upcoming Fundraising Banquet at the end of March.

Thank you to all of the bowhunters in Arizona for participating in this discussion. Without sharing and challenging each others ideas we cannot grow intellectually and keep our public officials and lawmakers in check.

From: Scar Finga
19-Mar-18
Arizonabowhunter, PM Sent.

From: Ned
19-Mar-18
I've been arguing against the crossbow in Ohio for years and it just falls on deaf ears. Once a law is passed, it takes an act of God to get it changed. I'm done with it myself. When they do away with the archery season all together some day, don't come crying to those who have spoke out against the use of crossbows during archery.

From: StickFlicker
19-Mar-18

StickFlicker's embedded Photo
Excerpt from Article at Link Dated 2-17-18
StickFlicker's embedded Photo
Excerpt from Article at Link Dated 2-17-18

StickFlicker's Link
"The ABA has currently been discussing methods of challenging other regulations. I promise you that this discourse of the air bow will be thoroughly debated amongst the ABA. Upon reaching a conclusion of agreement, a POA (plan of action) will be developed to likely challenge this regulation. When the time comes, we hope that all Arizona Bowhunters who agree will stand behind us."

The airbow is part of the same rule change as the trail camera issue and 1/4 mile bow shooting prohibition from buildings. Not to be critical, but according to this article (from more than a month ago) the 30 day time to comment is likely about over. When might the ABA do all this discussion and form a plan of action? It was my understanding that the Commission was planning to vote on it in a meeting in Douglas in the very near future. If it wasn't virtually impossible to find anything by searching on the AZGFD website, I'd try to tell you when that is scheduled (the link to the meeting schedule I could find on their website only shows through 2016).

From: StickFlicker
19-Mar-18
The agency’s contact person who can answer questions about the rulemaking: Name: Jay Cook, Regional Supervisor FOR6 Address: Arizona Game and Fish Department 7200 E. University Dr. Mesa, Arizona 85207 Telephone: (480) 324-3540 Fax: (480) 324-3596 E-mail: JCook@azgfd.gov

From: Knothead
20-Mar-18
Thanks for Posting contact info Marvin. Hope it is not too late but I just sent in my comments/suggestions.

From: Scar Finga
20-Mar-18
Gentlemen,

It would appear that I have to eat some crow, I made a mistake about the Arizona Bowhunters Association and I am in contact with them. You and they have my deepest apologies! I have edited my posts above.

I will be sending my comments/ suggestions to AZGFD today.

God Bless and please pass the ketchup, Crow tastes horrible!

From: smarba
20-Mar-18
I submitted my comments to AZGFD.

From: Scar Finga
20-Mar-18
Mine is done as well.

20-Mar-18
I also submitted my thoughts to AZGFD and forwarded this thread.

21-Mar-18
After my thoughts and this Bowsite thread were received by Jay Cook with AZGFD he called me and we talked at length about this and it sounds to me like it's going to happen. AZGFD believes this will not go beyond disabled hunters. C

From: Ambush
21-Mar-18
"AZGFD believes this will not go beyond disabled hunters."

".... no, honestly, I'll just put the tip in, and just a little bit...."

21-Mar-18
Ambush: I agree with you.

It seems the Arizona Bow Hunters missed this.

I am a Life Member of the Iowa Bow Hunters Association and they have Liasions with the Iowa DNR and a paid lobbyist to work the State Legislatures. Nothing like this would proceed without their input. IBA is the most effective State Bow Hunting Organization I am aware of.

Perhaps Arizona Bow Hunters have had input and if so my apologies. C

From: Scar Finga
21-Mar-18
Charlie,

As far as I have heard, and discussed with others here in AZ, no input was received by AZ bowhunters, that is just from my learning's...

Moving forward, I would urge Arizona bowhunters to get involved! I am going to start attending meetings with the ABA, and I am going to the Banquet as well. If we don't start banning together, we are going to lose everything we have! I find it interesting that Charlie is not even an AZ resident, and he is helping out greatly! Thank you so much Charlie, we definitely need the help and support of ALL bowhunters!

God Bless!

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