Contributors to this thread:
Is it just me ?
I was taking a break from working in the garden this weekend and turned the TV on while I got a bite to eat. The program that was on one of the hunting / fishing channels was a " long range hunting " show. The host and a whole posse of trucks with guys and their high dollar optics we're parked along a ranch or forest service road glassing elk. The guy with the rifle was being picky about which bull he wanted to shoot. The one he wanted didn't walk out in the open for the camera to get his 800 yd or whatever it was shot so the " guides " took off in a truck to go to where they could walk in on the bull to push him out in the clear. Earlier in the show the shooter was watching a bull he was gonna shoot ,again at over 800 yds, and some other guy ,from the same road as the TV guy , started lobbing lead at the bull . Four shots four misses! The TV guy met up with the other guy and with a crowd of camo clad bystanders said the guy who missed wanted to borrow his rifle . He sells custom rifles. Imagine that. A while ago I saw a part of a show where a guy was hunting in old Mexico and was taking a super long , like 1200 yd, shot at a big desert mulie buck and hit him low in the rear leg. Oh yeah , that was from the truck too. They then drove over to where the buck was and shot him again from much closer. I know I'm not supposed to bash other hunters for how they hunt and all but when do ethics start to come into play? This whole " long range " fad is starting to really get under my skin. Especially when it's being promoted on national television . That is NOT hunting! Even if the rifle is capable of making an accurate shot at that range very few people are capable of it. I have more respect for a guy who pays to hunt in a fence than I do for someone who won't put in the effort to get as close as possible for the most ethical shot opportunity. That was my rant ....
it may not be what YOU'd do and the way YOU'd hunt, but as long as it is legal.... right ...
Agreed. I saw an episode a while back where they put bait out on a ridge and then set up some ungodly distance away. I believe it was the same show. That was enough for me.
It’s BS pure and simple. I’m tired of the “we must all stand united” baloney. Idiots who care more about killing than hunting and prove it with their actions need calling out.
I don't like it...but I don't make the rules.
Had a friend tell me about his brother, who's really into long-range shooting... anyways, the guy was driving along and spotted a PH, but it was out at 5-600 yards or so. He actually hiked AWAY from the animal so he could shoot it at 1000 yards, because that's his "thing." Blows me away.
Did he end up shooting across the road if he hiked away from the animal?
All due respect JTV, it was legal to exterminate the bison from the continent also . Was it ethical? When does it cease to be " fair chase " as is part of the game laws in any place I have ever hunted?
I got rid of the so called sportsman channel,I don't watch none of this 30 minute show and 25 minutes of infomercials.pure crap.
People still watch those shows?
but yet, "bowhunters" bait, spread corn, apple, beets, etc ... some take 100 yd shots at animals, heck, some even go to the lowly crossbow and do all that, yep, when does "fair chase" end .... so anyone who takes a shot with a rifle over 200/300 yds is now unethical ....
how many times have I been told off by crossbow guys and masterbaiters that as long as it is legal its legal, I cant count the times on here.... Ive brought up the "even if its legal, but should you" argument before because I dont like crossbows nor the dump it and they will come crowd .... but if its LEGAL.... right ........ I like rifles, I'm a former USMC sniper so I know what the right rifle will do in correct hands.... BTW, I no longer "gun hunt" either for deer... I havnt in quite a few years, I'm a vertical BOWhunter, but I do use my rifles for 'yotes, woodchuck, crows and the like, but for deer, nope ....
Funny thing is this has been going on a long time. I know guys back in the 70's that were shooting pronghorn from a thousand yards with their 6mm rifles and 600 yards with pistols. It is just made public much easier now a days. Shawn
I quit watching most of the shows... i do like the chef shows Layseth and that Ausie dude that cooks up meals at the shoreline and i do like the Fitgeralds, they have some neat recipes.
Recovering an animal that was shot at 1000 yds would be no different to me than finding a fresh roadkill. It was not hunted, just killed.
Watch a show where two guys with elk tags spot this 200 plus muley accross the valley. They hustle back to camp there is older guy with the only deer tag in camp. They tell him about this monster deer they left undistrub up the mountain. Next thing they have escorted him to theirs rifle and packs looking accross the valley at this buck and proceed to mention distance and wind blah blah turn the knobs on the scope and say we have it doped out wiggle little to get crosshairs on his shoulder and pull trigger. Sure enough one dead 200 plus mule deer at extreme range accross the valley. Not much for the guy with the tag to talk about “moved my finger on the other guys gun and tied the tag on the antlers.
600 yard pistol shot, I have to admit that is impressive.
The issue , why I'm opposed to promoting taking extreme long shots on what are called game animals , is that the vast majority of today's hunters aren't capable of consistently making that shot. Even with a perfect weapon it's still on the person pulling the trigger . How many guys that go through marine training can make it as a sniper? I bet it's a small percentage. I'm sure someone could cite data . Wounded and lost animals . Who can cite data on that? How many guys wing elk and deer and don't even know they made contact ? Wounded animals are just a bad part of the game. It happens. Why make the odds of it higher on purpose ? If spotlighting was legal I guess there would be plenty of record book junkies participating , and outfitters selling the "hunts".
While maybe not "extreme" this is one of the reasons I exclusively hunt big game with a sharp stick. Got pretty good with a rifle.... been hand loading for them from when I was 15 or 16. Shot small game, jackrabbits, ground squirrels, yotes etc. with high power, 7mm mag, 300 and 338 mags, all year, minimum 20-30 rounds a week or more. Inside 400 yards was a done deal. It had been a dozen years or more the last shot I had missed. You have to be a total dork not to be able to close within 400 or less. It was essentially tipping over tin cans for all the thrill. Does nothing for me. Nothing. Same animal inside 40 with a bow..... it's all I can do to keep myself from shaking apart. That flips my switch.... big time. It's why I am obsessed with bowhunting.
Have nothing against rifle hunting. If somebody gets excited lining up the shot from so far away you can take your coat off, wipe your brow, take a drink, discuss it with a friend.... good for you. But for me it had become about as exciting as plinking tin cans..... no matter how far. For others, maybe it still rocks your world.
Hands down..... to me it's not the "challenge" or "difficulty", I can see both in long range shooting.... or even the kill. I can see some satisfaction at accomplishing a goal. But I am a junky when it comes to the pure rush of the "moment of truth" bowhunting big game. It is not even comparable. Right now it pretty much drives everything I do......
For me..... "dat's da facts, SIR!"
I don’t do it but if someone else does so be it. Laws should be set based on the herds health for tag numbers and weapon restrictions should be minimal beyond what can ethically take the animal.
I do roll my eyes at the stories of the epic stalk to take an animal at 600+ yards, but I don’t wish to outlaw it by anymeans.
Not into that. If they want to snipe from long distance, go into the service and fight for your country. Get trained and get good at it, make some meaningful 'kills' on terrorists, and then when you come back stateside, use your skills to hunt game from a long distance and make accurate, quick kills. But to just go buy pricey optics and rifles, and go out and lob stuff at game from hundreds of yards 'experimentally', while filming for some lame tv hunt, that frosts me and is one reason that hunting gets a bad name - when done poorly, it leaves a sour feeling in anyone's stomach (anyone with a conscience).
"600 yard pistol shot, I have to admit that is impressive."
And if you weren't already impressed... he held the pistol sideways like a gangsta'.
"And if you weren't already impressed... he held the pistol sideways like a gangsta'."
Nice, did he do a double tap, or one shot one kill?
If you would all STOP WATCHING it would all dry up and blow away like the mirage that it is...
You guys know there's a long-range hunting forum somewhere where they're bitching about some hunting show that showed a bowhunter shoot one "a little far back" in the guts, and lose the animal. . . . They're bitching about how unethical it is. . . .
Frankly, I get pretty damn tired of the liberal attitude of "anything that offends me needs to be illegal".
Not a new thing at all. F&S or OL had an article in the mid 70s that showed guys hunting deer in PA with bench guns and Japanese battleship optics. These guys were killing deer at 1200-1500 yards and groundhogs at over 1000. As a young teen, I was captivated. A year or two later we saw these guys shooting doe on RT 15 outside of Mansfield PA. They were set up off the highway with a bench, and optics that were in the mag article. Had "retrievers" on opposite mountain getting deer they shot from across the valley. We stopped and watched for a while. It was quite amazing for back then. I'm guessing 1977 or so.
"Nice, did he do a double tap, or one shot one kill?"
Oh, it was definitely multi-tap. And he thrusted the pistol forward with each shot, ya know, to add some muzzle velocity like a true gangsta' would.
I got no problem with it. if you can make the shot more power to ya.Don't see the attraction myself.I shoot a rifle at coyotes that are out there a fair ways, but for big game its a bow and the closer I get the more exciting it is.
"Way beyond my skill set."
Way beyond what I want to spend on a rifle.
"Frankly, I get pretty damn tired of the liberal attitude of "anything that offends me needs to be illegal".
If you have the ability to shoot long distance, go for it BUT I do think it is ridiculous to back up because your shot isn't far enough to shoot an animal.
Lame. And I still love to rifle hunt too.
Bake x3 What happened to just plain disagreeing lol?
It’s not hunting, it’s shooting, big difference. The folks who engage in long range shots, with whatever weapon they choose, are the ones missing out on that feeling of accomplishment and pure adrenaline. We simply can’t enforce or govern laws that pertain to shooting distances. It becomes a personal and moral choice. Personally, I started bow hunting 30 years ago because I liked the challenge of getting close to game and harvesting it with archery tackle. The closer I get, the more accomplished I feel, wether I fill my tag or not.
It's just a bragging point to their buddies. The actual retrieval and usage of the game animal is probably a major inconvienience to the shooter, if they actually go get the animal.
I've made a couple long (for me) shots on mulies in wyoming, but haven't hunted with firearms at all in many years.
Today, I simply hunt whitetails with my longbow, and that's fine by me. Bowhunting for me is...how close can I get, not how far can I hit.
"Frankly, I get pretty damn tired of the liberal attitude of 'anything that offends me needs to be illegal'."
Nowadays, it seems to be a common thread among many conservatives as well.
Recently saw a "hunter" on one of those long range shows take an 850-yard poke at a bear when he could've easily gotten closer. He missed it high and right by at least a yard. Good thing he wasn't a "better" shot or he'd have wounded it.
Stopped watching/subscribing to hunting shows on TV years ago....Never looked back! Better content found on YouTube (Not a endorsement!) and you can chose what or what not to watch...
Hunting with a surgical strike mentality is for those who prefer it. The satisfaction level for me would be akin to kissing through a screen door. I don't watch promotional hunting shows of any kind nowadays. Give me a real bow, a game animal...and meet me in the woods. The best shows play endlessly in my memory.
Dmc I’m not sure what bow u shoot but I get just as pissed at watching 100 yard bow shots from 2500$ compounds as I do watching 1000 yard shots from a 5000$ rifle.
Some of you worship those celebs who take 100+ yard shots at live animals with a bow and think it is the same as shooting at a stationary. Or worse when Lee takes an 88 yard at a sheep, the sheep moves 3 feet by the time the arrow gets there. The sheep moves into the arrow, which missed by 3 feet, and some of you think that was a great shot. A lot more can happen in 100 yards with a 300fps arrow, than what can happen at 1,000 yards with a 2,900 pfs piece of lead. Go ahead now and tell me to get off the internet, go out and practice so I can also take 100 yard shots with my bow.
Hey Peco I think you make a valid point.
PECO, you pretty much expressed my opinion on the matter.
I shoot and hunt with a 15 yr old compound bow. Good equipment. I practice regularly and shoot to 80 yds . I only practice with the fixed blade broadheads I hunt with and shoot well enough to have to aim at different spots on the target to avoid wrecking too many arrows. I will not shoot at a live target at that range. Way too many things can go wrong at that range . Animals are not stationary targets. I have taken follow up shots on animals I already had hit at close to 80 yds . If they're still up and I can shoot again I do and it has paid off . I fully agree peco ! No difference between the long range rifle shots and the long range bow shots. All I'm saying is I wish it weren't promoted by the celeb hunters . It's about responsibility. My initial question was asked because I really don't know how most of the folks who post here look at it. The way I see it is that it's not huntin , it's just Killin with a big possibility of just wounding. Saying the way I see it isn't telling anyone else to see it my way .
Seems a sign of the times. Bow sights beyond 100 yds is no different. More chances of loosing animals that are shot at that range with a bow than a rifle.
Gun hunting is “how far away”; bowhunting is “how close.”
not for me! I wanna be close enough to smell them
Nothing more exciting than being on the ground close enough to your quarry that you could spit in them. It’s also a lot more difficult to miss.
This is such a slippery slope but I can't help but feel that attempting shots at extreme range becomes unethical at some point regardless of weapon preference. It has nothing to do with how you like to hunt. Defining extreme is the problem.
"Frankly, I get pretty damn tired of the liberal attitude of 'anything that offends me needs to be illegal'."
You mean like Gay Marriage and kneeling during the national anthem? How do you feel about shooting spotted fawns? Or a button buck in December?
I'm with Ike, PECO, JTV & TD. If you want laws passed against rifle shots past X hundred yards, then what's the limit for archery??
I've got a 12-year-old and a 15-year-old, and I spend a LOT of time talking about how "Legal" is simply the lowest standard of conduct that society will tolerate before responding with fines and/or jail time. Stuff like Pot, Adultery, Smoking, Vaping, selling $1 "Livestrong" bracelets for $5 on ebay, getting incredibly rich by setting up the entire US economy to fail....
Good Judgement cannot be legislated; only TAUGHT.
I think it's a mistake to try to control offensive behavior through regulations. I also think it's a HUGE mistake to keep silent about bad behavior, especially if your primary concern is that the people whose behavior you're addressing are just going to turn it back around on YOU.
Do 1,000-yard rifle-"hunters" have any right to complain when we wound animals that are beyond our effective range? Damn straight they do. Do they have any business telling you or me what that effective range is? Hell, no.
I've always been a proponent of adhering to the SPIRIT of the law as regards Archery and Muzzleloader seasons, but it's not the equipment, it's the Culture. Culture is shaped by the expression of expectations, norms, taboos and ideals. Like they say - If you see something, say something. We need to make it clear among ourselves AND to the non-hunting world what Is/Is Not acceptable behavior, and that means that we need to put up with a diversity of opinions and a healthy, honest debate that puts the welfare of the resource and good manners at the forefront. If that involves calling out bad behavior among the ranks, so be it; if you don't want to be called out on your behavior, then don't pull that crap and nobody can.
serious question here. what takes more skill....1000 yrd rifle kill or getting under 30 yrds for a shot? my opinion is they both take an exorbitant amount of skill but it's different skill sets. you can't compare the two. and I can't say that one takes more skill than the other.
I'd have to agree with you even though I do a bit of long range myself. The "sport" has taken off like mad and a lot of guys just don't know what they are doing. I personally wouldn't shoot past 800 and that is a stretch. Whanging steel is easy until you get a big buck or bull in the scope and then the nerves kick in
The few bucks I shot with a bow required little skill, especially the one that walked under my tree last season. My bow shoots straighter than most pistols outbto 50 yards.
I guess I’d agree that the long shooting takes “skill”, but there is no Hunt in killing an animal that is so far away that you could be dead up-wind, in plain sight, jumping around and screaming your head off, and the animals would completely ignore you.
JMO, the closer, the better. The last thing I want when hunting is for it to turn into a difficult shot. Whether or not I will get to where I can drop the string is what makes it worth doing, but by the time I’m ready to release, I really want the outcome to be a foregone conclusion...
I’m deadly under 20 yds. Inside 20 doesn’t require a whole lot of shooting skill. Just fill the entire sight up.