Petersens bowhunting mag, i am out!
General Topic
So i was reading the july 18 edition and i am done with them. They won't get another penny from me. The language they use in the conclusion about crossbow bigotry has me triggered i guess. I can tolerate the crossbow ads, updates, and hunting pieces with a crossbow because i don't care what other people do, but "bigotry!".
Without having access to the full article, who can understand the context of why the conclusion was written - a persuasive article apparently.
Empty thread so far...
HDE- basically a state by state update on what progress has been made so far in legalizing crossbows. They were also tying it into helping with hunter recruitment etc. It is the use of the word bigotry that bothers me. Lineman, I don't care if people use crossbows, they are kinda cool in their own way but are way too heavy. I do care about a magazine using leftist rhetoric to promote their agenda.
Not a fan of them in bow season for anybody that's not handicapped! Say all the crap you want about attaching other hunters, I'm not, I'm preserving bow season! May not may a big impact in states where you can just go buy a tag or tags, but in our limited opportunity areas out West it's a big deal! I unfollow and stop supporting companies and individuals that promote xbows for archery season! Lots of people wanting to hunt archery that aren't willing to put in the effort to use even a compound!
+1 oldgoat
It's a completely different thing in western states where permits are limited, and become more limited as success rates increase. In AZ, permits and season lengths are decreased in direct proportion to hunt success in order to kill the same number of animals. As more efficient weapons are introduced, that have a shorter learning curve or allow for higher success rates, the bowhunters' opportunities to hunt spiral further downward. Perhaps it's more of a spiritual/inclusiveness thing in the east where tags are OTC, but it would destroy bowhunting opportunity in our part of the Country.
I'm a bigot. I can live with that.
Maybe some don`t understand the definition of the word. Our left wing media has beaten us over the head with the misuse of the word "bigot".
I agree with Lineman....this is getting ridiculous. Our numbers are dropping and when we become a small minority they will move in for the kill.
I personally thought the June issue was one of the better editions. The article "The State of Bowhunting" was a very insightful article about what a pathetic state bowhunting is currently facing. Sorry you missed all of the great articles in the magazine about shooting and vertical bow reviews.
But I understand that a man has got to do what he has to do.
I guess I am just waiting for the bigotry against using rocket launchers and hand granades too during the "archery" season. It is the use of the term as if people who don't want crossbows in archery are against crossbows. Kinda like how terrible we are for separating kids from parents as they Illegally enter the US. Instead of saying, "hey don't illegally come here and you won't get separated from your kids".
Bowhunting is in a very steep DECLINE. If one does not hunt with a real hand drawn bow they are not a bowhunter. Stop kidding yourselves, bowhunter numbers are dropping at a very, very rapid rate, crossbow hunters are rapidly expanding. Bowhunting is reserved for the declining minority who choose to hunt the harder way.
If you hunt with a crossbow, that is fine. You are not however a bowhunter.
A bigot, huh? I guess I can live with that. After all, that’s better than what I think of them!
"If you hunt with a crossbow, that is fine. You are not however a bowhunter."
Yup, pretty good assessment.
"May not may a big impact in states where you can just go buy a tag or tags, but in our limited opportunity areas out West it's a big deal! "
Show me where it's been a "big deal" in Wyoming. Crossbows have been legal archery gear there for the last 40 years.
Shooting Deer out of a tree over bait is a lot different than how we hunt out here.
These crossbow threads used to crop up every other month or so, now seems like it's every other week. Everybody, (including me), gets excercised about it, speaks their piece, but it ain't gonna change a damn thing. Crossbows are here to stay, whether we like it or not. Personally, I couldn't care less. The world doesn't stop turning just because somebody chooses to hunt differently than I do. And maybe if you are losing sleep over what a stranger is doing, you're wasting part of your life. I've got other things to think about......
Scoped crossbows would be a game changer during general elk archery seasons, especially on private land elk where " hunting " is done from just outside vehicles, short walks or tree stands. Crossbows for all would be devastating to the permit drawing in archery elk units of states like Montana.
Crossbows of forty years ago are nothing like those of today......or tomorrow.
If/when they make a difference in Wyoming, they'll make a change. Until then, the evidence from the western state that allows, and has history with them, shows they're not a big deal in that state.
The CBA's Mission Policy Statement. Colorado Bowhunters Association. Colorado a western state with a variety of Limited Draw Species.
1. Legal Bow hunting Equipment. : The CBA will develop and promote bow hunting regulations with thresholds that limit hunters to use only the hand held, hand drawn bow that emphasize archery and bow hunting skills.
2. Crossbows: The CBA categorically rejects crossbow technology as being legal archery equipment for use during any archery season in Colorado, and will actively oppose the use of crossbows or implementation of crossbow seasons under any circumstance, where such will diminish or degrade the bowhunting experience, opportunity and /or quality with the handheld, hand drawn bow. (The CBA does support the use of the crossbow for proven disabled hunter, during an archery season-- no scope allowed)
Paul, then Petersens would consider the CBA to be bigoted.
Crossbows don’t recruit new hunters. Just something to say with no basis in fact. It’s all about selling gear - no surprise magazine and TV shows that depends on ads are all behind them.
shame shame on wyoming. ask b.o.w. what they think of crossguns nonres can't hunt wilderness areas without a guide but i can hike and fish there during hunting season they haven't changed that either. makes no sense
Suprised so many are this way. If so many are true to archery why not use a stick bow? So many use a compound why, because it is easier than Trad! Extend the range of accuracy? I hear so many complaints about crossbows...however what was the thought of trad shooters when many started with compound?...is holding a bow with 80% letoff for several minutes prior to that animal getting to your shooting lane really that much different? I get the arguments so dont preach. I will always be a verticle bow guy both compound and TRAD! However my wife who has never hunted and wants in but doesnt have confidence yet....you bet i bought her a ravin xbow. Anything to get her out. I think it may be time when we ALL need to be on the same page! Its new technology..same as when a compound came around
If the differences between a self-drawn bow and basically a shouldered rifle that shoots bolts isn’t apparent to you, then no amount of discussing the subject will matter.
Wow you guys really let this post deteriorate into another stupid argument about right and wrong, will or will not regarding crossbows. I believe the OP was regarding the use of the term bigotry. But hey why let your vision be clouded by your emotions
I can draw and hold my 70 pound compound for a LONG time before I must shoot. Which means I can draw m bow well in advance of having the shot. Anyone that has ever killed a few thing with a compound can attest to that reality.
I can draw and hold my 58 pound longbow of choice for about 20 very awkward, wavering, painful, seconds if need be. Compound only hunters fail to realize that when they complain about the hand held, hand drawn bow being different the the crossbow, the make foolish claims when these reality's are considered.
With all that said, i don;t like them. I wish they weren't in our seasons. I'm also not sure the recruit many people. I just know we gotta do something to recruit more people or we are DONE.
Longbeard- you are correct. I don't care About them. I just hate the way they used that term. Kinda like if you are against illegal immigration than you must be a racist.
I say that anyone who hauls a crossbow into a diy public land elk bowhunt is a man. I wouldn't lug one of those contraptions 50 yards from the truck to sit in a blind much less lug one around for miles in the mountains.
Newsflash....... the sun is coming up tomorrow regardless
The whole recruiting new hunters thing is BS. Some things are meant to be a little difficult. With the logic some use, I should be able to ride my atv on hiking and mountain bike trails. It's really the same thing.
Question...a co workers boy isnt strong enough to shoot a bow yet at legal weight...co worker bought his boy an x bow last year and he killed a really nice 8 ....same with my wife...some areas around where i hunt dont allow slug guns. So its not worth it "recruiting" New people into the woods if they cant shoot a vert bow? Come on!
Lots of posts on this forum say the biggest problem facing hunting is having places to hunt. If this is true, do we really need to recruit new hunters?
"Crossbows of forty years ago are nothing like those of today......or tomorrow."
YUP! Same as compounds. If we really want to get back to a REAL archery season it should be stickbows only.
Recruitment? Colorado archery elk hunter participation has doubled in the last 15 years, and had 20% growth in the last 5, all without crossbows.
I'd really like to see specific data on archery participation across the US. Does USFWS have data or is it ATA data or what? Remember the surge from Hunger games?
We worry about hunter recruitment, then fill forum pages with big game draw ideas that would keep them from getting "my tag". Can't have it both ways.
"Show me where it's been a "big deal" in Wyoming. Crossbows have been legal archery gear there for the last 40 years."
Times change. This past winter, the Wyo G&F Dept recommended to the Game Commission that crossbows not be allowed during special archery seasons. Before taking any action, the Commission asked G&F to provide input from the public before any actions are taken. G&F plans to hire a company to survey hunters about crossbows, as well as other technology topics from trail cameras to smart rifles. According to Brian Nesvik, chief game warden, " I would like to just do the survey and go back and tell the Commission what the results are and then decide if we want to move forward with the regulation. We want results that are statistically valid and quantifiable."
If anyone thinks those in a position to make changes aren't paying attention to "Ravin... Meet Your New Rifle", you're sadly mistaken.
Glad others have discovered the recruitment dilemma vs point creep, and hunting land availability.
Petersen’s is still in business?
Crossbows were around long before compounds, so which is more traditional? If you are that worried about what someone else is shooting then you need some help lol. I hunt public land and have seen a lot f guys switch over to crossbows and they aren't walking out with anymore deer then they did before.
I think crossbows have evolved in efficiency, crossbows today are nothing like those of yesterday.
Much of the western hunting is not in the mountains. Here in Montana some of the very best elk and deer hunting is on private farm ground. Very little walking required, even for elk at times.
Crossbows aren't like 10-20 years ago. The Raven R10 weighs less than a scoped rifle and is only 6" axle to axle. 400fps, not loud and the scope has a 20-100 yard reticle. Youtube has plenty of videos of folks shooting softball size groups right off the bat at 100 yards with the latest crossbows.
Folks won't kill a whole lot more them. The real impact is more people choosing to hunt during archery season as crossbows become easier and easier to use and carry. Going from zero to ready to hunt with a bow takes some effort. As we remove that obstacle, bow season changes. Whether that change is good depends on the situation.
If the supply of tags, access and crowding aren't an issue, crossbows may be a benefit. If the demand for tags is higher than supply, land access is shrinking or getting more expensive, or crowding is an issue, adding crossbows to bow season may not be a benefit.
Hate to break it to us "vertical bow" hunter....we all are using a "crossbow"....the only difference is the fixed draw. Crossbows of old shot what we are shooting in a compound now. Our compounds were tugging along at 180 fps and crossbows were at 340 fps.
The compound shooter is a "cross bowyer" to the traditional crowd. It`s all relative. You either hunt with a BULLET or an ARROW....where the arrow comes from matters not.
I'd like to know where bow hunters are on the decline? Every year I see more and more bow hunters over crowding the woods its getting as bad as gun season
The problem we have a gun hunting mentality slinking through the public land instead of using a bowhunters mind skills. I'll put this onus on the compound advance technology, could have restrict the release and we probably wouldn't be down this road.
They may hit something at 100 yards but they won't penetrate Jack, that is the difference.
And, they are just like the crossbows of yesteryear. Pretty dumb comments from some.
Some good points about what the hunting experience is like "back east" and "out west". Different places, different problems and different ways to approach them. Whether it was legal or not....I'd have no desire to tote a crossbow around the hills "out west". If my mindset was I can make a longer shot while toting...why not just wait for rifle season if you have to tote something and want a long shot?
That leads me to my other thought. IMO...there are other things that hurt hunting numbers that I think are more important than internally debating the merits of different weapons. Some I can think of, and some already mentioned are.....Res and NR cost involved, lack of broad access to hunting areas, too many hunters crammed into some areas, unrealistic expectations, social regs, trophy-itis, poor marketing/outreach, poor product, PCism and over-saturation (boredom) from the hundreds of hunting shows. We should be able to take those and any other reasons and then categorize them under (1) how to attract new hunters and (2) how to keep existing hunters.
You have to assume as older hunters fall out of the hunting ranks, the pace of new hunters coming in isn't keeping up. One thing I think could help is for more states to offer lifetime sportsmen and/or hunting licenses. Maybe discount them for students. For example....Florida does that based on age. I have a lifetime sportsman's license there. Grand parents or moms/dads can buy them for their young kids as gifts cheap. Michigan no longer offers any lifetime license incentive....bummer. I would think that opportunity to stay in the game for life would be appealing to some. Anywho....my useless two cents.
.....so marketing hype from a manufacturer is now our criteria for whether a crossbow should be allowed in a bow season......might as well take the next logical step and ban all weapons of war from any bow season.....yeah makes sense.
Franklin, you are way off in your comparison to shooting and hunting with a bow and a crossgun. You've failed to mention the mental challenges of shooting a bow, I've shot bows and guns for 30 plus years, and there's no comparison. A bow is hand drawn and the energy stored is held with bone and muscle, regardless of the let off. All that bone and muscle is connected to the space between your ears. You can't brace a bow on a tree limb or log to steady it. You have to draw the bow in the presence of game. I could go on and on, but what's the point, some people will outright deny the facts that are right in front of them to justify their agenda.
"And, they are just like the crossbows of yesteryear. Pretty dumb comments from some."
And where did anybody say they were the same?
Here is a little history to ponder on bows style birthdays-
1000 BC- Central Asians invented the recurve bow; 700 BC- Chinese invented the crossbow; 1180 AD- Celts in Wales invented the longbow
6/23/1966 initial patent applied for a compound bow by Holless Allen 1974 production on compound bow began by Tom Jennings
Lots of posts on this forum claiming crossbows are primitive, have been around for hundreds of years. Dumb statement as modern scoped, engineered, crossbows are new, they are not a stickbow mounted on a stock as in the former times. No comparison or credible inference can be made. Dumb!
One just surfaced on another thread. There is no Chinese patent from yesteryear for a modern scoped crossbow. Dumb inferences.
Manitoba bowhunter numbers increase every year
Backpack Hunter makes an excellent point.....I`ve heard many refer to this ad campaign as a basis for their argument...."it`s a rifle"....no it`s not, it`s a crossbow that shoots an arrow.
The fact is there is going to be innovation and the limits will always be pushed to attract customers or prospective hunters. Compare a old round wheel compound with a flipper rest....a $15 sight and shot with fingers to todays 85% let off compounds....some might say it`s a "verticle crossbow" that can be held at full draw for minutes. We are ALL guilty of modern technology unless we make our bows and arrows by hand like some still do.
So some are "guilty" and some are "guiltier"....WTF
If a crossbow offers no advantages. Why is it the weapon of choice for the elderly,handicapped, and young?``
"If a crossbow offers no advantages. Why is it the weapon of choice for the elderly,handicapped, and young?"
Well said. Great time to drop the microphone!
Archery hunters have taken tags away from gun hunters for over 50 years and it seems to be working out Ok. Crossbows may have a slightly negative affect on some very limited archery tags but maybe sharing a little isn't such a bad thing. Times change and archery hunters have been treated very fairly over the past 50 years by the rest of the hunting community. Regulations can be changed if necessary.
Pretty sure the overwhelming comments on the G&F survey showed Wyoming residents are not opposed to crossbows in archery seasons. I'm betting a very small portion of archery harvests are with crossbows in Wyoming.
"Archery hunters have taken tags away from gun hunters for over 50 years..."
You could look at it that way, but since archery success is about 1/2 of gun success, every tag removed from rifle season means two archery tags and two less people applying for rifle tags plus less crowding in the woods during rifle season :^)
Tex, I think a prudent question would be, why hasnt crossbow use in wyoming resulted in a significant increase in harvest?
My opinion and that's all it is, is the style of hunting we do out here vs eastern states.
Around 12 years ago i blew my elbow out hsd some titanium parts put in. During rehab I had wyoming elk tag, I borrowed crossbow and had a crazy time. with arm in cast and sling I tried like hell, did'nt know you needed two hands to shoot or load. I understand being able to use a crossbow in some instances. peace Tjw
wytex, for many species, I’m confident crossbow harvests are fairly insignificant. However, when antelope hunting out of a blind is considered, I’d be willing to bet crossbow kills jump significantly. When G&F officials consider changes, they don’t just look at elk, sheep, and mountain goat.
And I’m also sure you’re correct that most hunters that are surveyed could care less. OTOH, I can assure you the overwhelming majority of bowhunters don’t feel the same.
I remember the same debate/conclusions, being directed at the compound. They were right back then and they are right today. These "contraptions" were not conceived of when bowhunting seasons were established and these contraptions have gutted the original intent/practice of bow hunting season establishment.
It's a brave new world folks. Men in dresses, fighting in the trenches and such. You are ordered to respect that new world or you will be drummed out of it.
Lever action, I also remember when everyone hunted with recurves and longbows. I was a kid just starting when compounds started gaining traction more and more people started bow hunting. Before compounds there were very few bowhunters in the field. Then it exploded, and the Deer population grew with the bow hunting population, even though people, especially gun hunters thought bow hunters were wounding and killing all the game before gun season. It’s the same argument 40 yrs later. Gun hunters did not like all the bow hunters. And the recurve long bow guys didn’t like all the Johnny come lately “Gadget” hunters jumping into thier season. Most new bow hunters then were gun hunters that didn’t want to dedicate the time to a recurve. By the way I still shoot old school bear bows and modern laminated recurves, longbows. My wife shoots an Excaliber Xbow and I also now shoot a Mathews Triax with 75% lo mods. I’m taking the Triax “Gadget” Elk hunting in September, deer hunting AZ in January and Cape Buffalo hunting next spring.
I never was "in" with Peterson's magazine. Never had an interest because they were always promoting the latest and greatest high-tech gear which does not interest me.
LOL!! Some of you guys are a HOOT! I think we need to spend more time with our bows than on the internet, or reading about bowhunting. Perhaps the stress level would be lowered and we'd be more tolerable with one another.
"The compound shooter is a "cross bowyer" to the traditional crowd. It`s all relative. You either hunt with a BULLET or an ARROW....where the arrow comes from matters not."
Great, don't bitch when the air arrow gun is legal.
Crossbows are legal for absolutely anyone to use in Virginia during archery season. Virginia's hunter numbers are falling faster than any other state. FACT.
