Toughest to kill in N.A.
General Topic
What would you say is the toughest big game species in North America to kill with a bow.
Assume you’re hunting it regardless of cost or tag availability so that’s not a contributing factor.
Assume size does not matter.
Assume you can hunt it the easiest way possible.
Which of the 29 North American animals are hardest to check off the list.
Entirely too many variables to peg just one species. Style of hunting and where the animal is being hunted have as much or more influence on the difficulty than the animal itself.
But after trying it a few times, I can't think of any I've experienced tougher than spot and stalk coues deer in the desert country on OTC tags in Arizona. That said, same species and I personally know people who shot multiple deer that made book in a half weeks time in Old Mexico. They may have a vastly different answer, despite them being the same animal.
Not a big game animal, but the coyote gets my vote. Those things have a sixth and seventh sense, and can run forever with both lungs gone.
Run forever with both lungs gone?
Gotta be a NB Black Bear!
A mountain lion, in Canada. I hear those can be tough, especially to get home.
Public land P&Y class whitetail? What say you, Ike... ;)
Hardest iv ever hunted would be spot and stalk speed goat not super physical but sure tough to get in range.
I would rate NM ibex right up there. Those critters are really tough to hunt!
1% on Ibex? Yikes, why bother?
I'd love to take the opportunity to bother.....
Timberline190+ mule deer. Hands dowm one of the hardest animals to hunt with a bow..
The toughest physical hunt I've been on was no doubt my mountain goat hunt. I don't think they're all that easy to kill once you're up there, but my guess is that if you landed most hunters on an alpine lake and showed them where the goats are they wouldn't make it.
The animal I've had the least success with a bow has been elk. Some of that was by choice and due to my own failings (passing on elk that I shouldn't have, poor shots, etc) - but I think people think elk are a lot easier to kill than they are.
There are a lot of variables that do go into answering this question and there are categories of certain species that are very difficult to kill for different reasons (P&Y public land whitetail, etc).
This is a great question, but I think the only ones who can answer the question are those hunters who have taken the NA 29. And then, the answer will probably differ. The killing difficulty will/could differ depending on the hunter’s experience of hunting a particular species.
Otherwise, we can only truthfully comment on the difficulty of what species we have hunted.
Thus far, my NA nemesis has been a P&Y quality WT deer. It is also the species I spend the least amount of time bowhunting.
I'm with Stealthy....lion without dogs.
It really needs clarifying as to hunt style.
A lion behind dogs can be tough getting to them but a layup shot.
There are Mtn Goat hunts you can do where they walk right up to you like those ones in Colorado.
Coues hunt sitting on water ....yeah you lose 5# in water weight but not especially tough.
Those Ibex are tough no matter the style hunt......
Wolf with a bow might be up there at the top
i say NM Ibex. I'm 0-2 on that hunt. I will get one some day!!!
In my experience based on the number of days afield to take a particular species, I found Coues, Grizzly and Stone sheep to be the toughest. When it comes to the toughest hunt, it is hard not to pick Mountain Goats. Done that 4 times now and each time wonder why in the heck I wanted another one of them critters!! richie
I always say it is the animal you are trying kill right now. The hunt varies so much on weather, terrain, hunting pressure, and population that it is really impossible to answer the question.
John
Way to many variables to answer the question. You're going to have to narrow that down before we can really answer. Otherwise this will go the way of the last thread with the identical topic.
S&S antelope for me......
# ___________ Taken / Nation wide days afield by tagholder x 100
When you throw in PY/BC quality the numbers would really get interesting...like Whitetail Interesting :)
Right on, Genesis-about a dozen years ago, I actually crunched the numbers. Lowest "success" percentage of all game animals with a bow. P&Y, no big deal, anymore. But B&C, different ballgame if you do not include high-fence or over bait.
Based on limited personal experience, it seems to me that mountain lion without the aid of dogs is likely the most difficult.
I think toughest to kill would be spot and stalk Coues Deer. When you look at the amount of tags sold for coues deer (and over the counter to boot) every year and the actual success its very very little. They are super spooky critters and very fast.
IBEX has low success... but tags are very hard to draw. Very few tags are actually out there. Coues deer tags are very abundant and easy to get. Actually killing one is a different story.
I've been blessed with DIY, Public land bowhunts many times for Antelope, many Whitetails & Mule Deer with a few Elk thrown in. Black Bears & Caribou (guided by law) & a few other. HOGS have been the "toughest" to kill even with a well placed arrow at times. Physically tough for me has been Elk but I'm guessing Sheep & Goat have to be physically tough for most.
Someone above said wolf with a bow. I got lucky on a grizz hunt in Ak a month ago, and arrowed a wolf. Thirty yards, double lung and it ran trotted maybe 30 yards and tipped over. I was very luck but expect few are bow shot. Toughest, I’d say bighorn/stone/dall sheep. Tags are hard to get. Hunt are very expensive. Physical requirements are more than many people have. The weather can be terrible. Shot angles and shot distance are often extreme. I shot a dall with a rifle. There is no way I could have arrowed a dall in that nine day hunt.
Any elk..... I've been five times and have still failed to connect. LOL..... However, two of the five I had an opportunity and passed and one time I missed,,,, with an ML, at 60 yards (choked, I admit it...) LOL
Define "toughest." There's a lot of different ways to define that. Physicality of the hunt, difficulty in getting to the animal. Difficulty in obtaining the tag. Toughest when it comes to time invested. You could add modifiers for size to the specie - as in, comparing a 1 year old midwest white tail buck to a 1 year old public land AZ coues buck. How you hunt it could be a modifier - S&S Pronghorn vs a blind on water comes to mind, etc.
Everyone's going to define "toughest" differently.
Right now my vote is a archery Dall ram on a OTC walk in hunt. You get to fight alders then spruce then more alders then tundra walk up hill where only half your steps count before you even get to the skitzy country. Once in the mountains you’re now trying not to fall off of the mountain while hoping the weather gods don’t make you sit in your tent for 10 days. Once you gain 4000 ft in elevation you’re in the start of sheep country. Now you have to find a legal ram in a location it won’t fall off a 1000 foot cliff and get within bow range before weather or another hunter moves in. If you run out of water you probably have a 500-1000 foot drop to go stock up on 2 days of water before you head back up the mountain. If you are lucky enough to get a ram now add all that weight in your pack and reverse route out and imagine the alder suck fest. My vote might change if I weather is good enough for my 4 day goat hunt in early October.
1-Take the total number of tags sold or total number of hunter days. Most use hunter days. 2- Now take the number of target animals taken. 3-That is how you arrive at a % of hunter success. 4- Do that with B&C whitetails taken with a bow. 5- Use the percentage of success as your defining parameter. You cannot define toughest with any one parameter. It must be defined by "effort hours or days" divided by "success numbers". Or, in this case, the reverse. Divide the larger number into the smaller. You cannot say, "I hunted Dall sheep for nine-days and did not even see one." That is a miniscule sampling, based on one personal experience. It is not a valid representation. The next guy, may hunt four hours and kill one. Therefore, you get nine-days plus four-hours and a 50%, success ratio. Not valid.
But...who the hell cares? For me, one of the toughest hunts is on a daily basis...finding my dang glasses.
One in every crowd..
Anyway, my vote goes to coues deer.
I will say it's the Desert Bighorn Sheep because I cant seem to draw that dang tag, even with my 27 points :>(
Try killing a crow with a bow. That's no picnic
I would definitely vote for high country mule deer via spot'n stalk.
Well, if you could go after them legally, I think at least an honorable mention would have to go to CT public-land whitetails after the second shotgun season. During the late ML season (scopes & sabots legal), the success rate is under 4%. Either sex.
I guess it’s all relative then, isn’t it??
LOL
Unlimited ram units in Montana would be my vote. Especially with archery gear.
I my limited experience, I would say the toughest hunt in relation to achieving success was name a whitetail buck and hunt only him until we finally connected. (it too 3 years).
In relation to the toughest physical hunt, that was elk hunting.
oz
I’ve hunted 18 different big game species. Mountain goats and sheep with the bow. Alaska.
Without a doubt New Mexico Archery Ibex is the most difficult. Brutal hunt in brutal terrain with the most intelligent and nervous animal I have ever seen.
Hmmm, done most everything listed above with the longbow.
That unlimited unit MT bighorn with the stick and string would be quite the challenge.
I’m changing my vote.
Unlimited Unit MT bighorn with a bow is the toughest critter to kill in NA.
Well so far, a Boone & Crockett buck on heavily hunted public land here in Alabama. I have hunted here for 46 years so far, and I have only seen one that size that was close enough for a bow kill and I had no shot on it. I was ten years old when I saw that buck. It ran up to me so fast I thought it was charging me at the time. Scared the crap out of me. Several people were hunting that buck but nobody ever got him.
Gotta be Bigfoot. People have been hunting them for years without a single kill so...
I was going to say bigfoot!
Unlimited Montana and NM Ibex and Smarba pulled for the Ibex miracle twice with biiiiiig Billies
Plus lets not mix up 'toughest' with "most unlikely" Sitting in a deer stand and hoping a big one comes by and throwing yourself into the ungodly rough high altitude country that is the "unlimiteds" not only not even in the same ball park but completely different sports...the difference of trying to make a hole in one and being shoved out s a plane with a WW2 surplus chute naked with a k-bar knife into the wilderness.....;)
^^^exactly. I got a better chance of killing an Ibex in Manitoba than a B&C public land whitetail in Alabama lol.
Serious question: A highly-pressured, very high altitude ram/goat/ibex, or a spot & stalk cougar?
GF the first one if the criteria is "tough"
"A mountain lion, in Canada. I hear those can be tough, especially to get home."
LOL Native Oak!
There are some states that don't even grow B and C class whitetail so the question will vary greatly from region to region.
With that, Mountain Lion with a bow and no dogs gets my vote by a LONG shot. I lived and hunted in some of the most lion dense ground in the country (southern CA). These cats haven't even been hunted for decades and I've only seen 2........EVER.
I'd say Early~~Date High Country Bow Mulie
Followe by Late~~Date Bow Bull Elk
Interesting thread 'bou
Good luck, Robb
Ibex in Alabama is easier than those pesky Gobblers
Canada goose are hard to kill even with shotgun tuff bird
From my experience the toughest to kill isn't a big game animal, it's a pine squirrel! My wife's experience is the opposite!
"With that, Mountain Lion with a bow and no dogs gets my vote by a LONG shot. I lived and hunted in some of the most lion dense ground in the country (southern CA). These cats haven't even been hunted for decades and I've only seen 2........EVER."
I saw my first in NW Colorado this year. He snuck into my elk calling set. I first saw him at 15 yards and he got to 5 yards without ever seeing me. I got spooked and yelled and waved my arms and he wheeled and took off. I was armed only with a recurve. It shook me up for hours. Thinking about packing a handgun on my next trip. Some other guy got mauled by a sheep dog when we were out there. Crazy stuff.
Lions aren’t that tough.
You just need a lot of time in the woods.
Good optics help as does being aware and thinking about how they hunt and travel - definitely not the same as deer or elk.
They come to water holes in the dry country just like the other animals.
They will come in to a call, even an elk call.
Tracking on dry ground is tough unless you have really good conditions.
On fresh snow, pretty easy. Just have to spend the day following the tracks and keep alert. Even if you jump the cat, you cans stay with him and eventually catch up.
Much easier than ibex, sheep, or goat.
Sika deer on Eastern Shore marsh. small target 40 tp 80lbs weight. doesn't stand still more than a second or two. doesn't walk hops, hard to stop when moving, deceivingly quick but looking slow. hard to spot in water ( have to follow the drip drip from their body and follow circles back to source, the look for a body part to locate it. A Double lung heart shot usually ends up with a 1 with little or 100 to 200 yds track with little to no blood after 50 yds. high fat in body content seals up the wound. will lay perfectly still and allow you to walk by. when they die they will hide, baried under brush, don't lay on side, will curl up under anything. One tough animal but the best eating,
Of the NA 29, I’d say Stone Sheep...
It was pure luck to get my P n Y squirrel when I was 15.
NA 29 as the original poster specified, personal experience only, based on hunting 27 of the species the toughest: - I spent 60 some days (6 seasons) chasing Stone Sheep before I arrowed one. - Also spent 60 some days (5 seasons) before I arrowed an interior mountain grizzly. - Also spent over 60 days (5 seasons) before I arrowed my first Bighorn.
If you want to include other animals, wolves are smart, quick and tough for this bowhunter.
Everyone has their nemesis specie and everyone has heard of one day hunts for many species.
I've found that the one I'm after tends to be the toughest.
I agree with Nick. All can be tough and easy depending on many factors.
Perspective will obviously differ, my one and only Coues' deer hunt only lasted 4 hours yet I hunted moose for 11 days and never released an arrow.
Work backwards.
It’s obviously none of the deer. All are easily taken if hunting in right area with right outfit.
Same for black bear. Two of the three elk are easily knocked off the list. Same with caribou except possibly woodland but really not even them. Assume Quebec bou are already taken or won’t be required
So far that leaves Grizzly, brown and polar bears and tule elk in the running
Muskox, cougar and pronghorn are all easy when hunted seriously.
Two of the three moose as well
That leaves bison, ak-yukon moose add to the list in the running.
You have to add the four sheep and goat to round out the list of finalists.
Tule Grizzly Polar Brown bear Ak moose Bison Goat Stone Dall Desert Bighorn
Even with top outfitter in top area those 11 are not easy and would make it to round two
Since brown and grizzly can now be baited,and moose called, and tule could be a ranch hunt.,.,,,I would narrow down to sheep, bison and goat and polar at this point. Those 7 make it to my round three.
Thoughts from there?
Bou' I have only been Guided Once and that was my Mnt. Lion hunt, even with Hounds it was grueling in the cliffs/crags/deep crusty snow and the steepness was lung busting!
So I think doing all other hunts DIY, with many, many bow harvests changes the 'easy outfit' part of the theory ~~
I too like how Nick stated his thoughts......very true.
Fun thread Grant
Good luck, Robb
you're right you can make any of these very very much more difficult than normal by changing how, where, with what, minimum size, specific gender, etc. But if one was just looking to check off 29 boxes and say "i got one of the species" what one would be the hardest to check off.
Going back to your original assumptions -
cost/tag no issue, size doesn’t matter, and can hunt the easiest way possible.
Which of the NA 29 is toughest to kill with a bow?
So exotics are out.
To your parred down list above:
Bison are not that difficult to get close enough to kill with a bow. They are big, but not as tough as other big bovines. After killing one, it’s a big pile of meat to deal with. American Indians killed them efficiently with self bows and flint tipped spears for a very long time before they even had horses. First thing I killed with my homemade longbow was a bison and had a complete pass-thru of the lungs. There are a number of places to hunt them with good populations. Check bison off the list.
Mountain goats like the steep country. If a guy has any fear of heights, it could certainly be a deterrent. Goats are very widespread across the western US up through western Canada and Alaska. Physically, it is tough to get into goat country in most of the places they live. However, goats are pretty easy to get close to for a good shot if you are in decent shape. They just don’t seem to have a fear of man like most other species. Killed a goat many years back with a longbow and just need another tag! I would check goats off the list.
Sheep also live in some tough country. Having hunted Rocky Mountain and Dall sheep, I would have to say that sheep are much more difficult to get close to than goats. However, there are some very easy sheep hunts for deserts and Rocky Mountain bighorns so they fall off the list if cost or getting a tag is not an issue. That leaves Dall and Stone sheep. These both live is some tough country. Of the two, Dalls are more widespread and a number of areas have less restrictions on age or curl that make it more possible to kill one with a bow. Stone sheep are more limited in distribution and have more restrictions for legal age classes.
A legal Stone sheep is the toughest sheep to kill with a bow in North America.
Polar bears live in the most remote, desolate and difficult to access country in North America. They are much tougher to hunt than any other bear. The hunting seasons are set to be able to find them on the ice and they are not huntable in the warmer summer months. It is brutally cold which requires specialized clothing. Shooting a bow with all those clothes on is definitely difficult and can really affect your effective range (read - ya gotta get closer to an animal that will kill you!). You have to go with native guides that are there to help keep you alive in this extreme environment. Polar bears are big and not afraid of humans - you are just another potential meal and they will not hesitate to eat you given the chance. They can get almost as big as a brown bear. When you shoot an arrow into one, you typically are on the same elevation as them on the ice and have nothing to hide behind. You have to rely on the guides dogs to keep the bear occupied and the guide to back you up with a rifle. Unfortunately most of the natives hunt with very small caliber guns - .223’s and such because the bullets are cheaper. Even with a perfect shot with an arrow, it will take time for that bear to expire. You are placing your life in the hands of the guides and dogs and there is always the potential for something to go wrong. There is a pretty good possibility of dying on this hunt - freezing to death, breaking your neck flipping a sled, getting mauled by a pissed off bear, or even having a medical condition 24 hours from help.
I would put polar bear at the top of the list for toughest of the NA 29 to kill with a bow.
Horn size and/or age restrictions (full curl or at least 8 yrs old) on Stones in BC and I believe the Yukon certainly up the difficulty level. Short of an even rarer Fannin (Dall, but classed as a Stone if enough dark hairs exist) coming out of the NWT....an area without the age/size requirement (don’t know about Alaska) it can be difficult to find a legal ram, to say nothing of stalking it and making a successful shot typically in steep terrain with winds. Anyway, Stone’s get my vote as toughest as I left the most sweat and fat on the mountain hunting them as well, typically losing a pound a day on the hunt.
This is very subjective. Where I live a desert bighorn sheep is 10 times easier to kill than a mature mule deer buck. I agree a Stone sheep is in a whole different ballpark and I have no experience with them.
Not elk. The only thing easier to kill in Arizona than a bull elk is a javelina. I've killed two bulls with my bow, so it can't be that hard, but again many things are different here. Seeing the country that a lot of elk live in the Rockies is much different than the majority of the terrain in AZ and we have roads almost everywhere. I have never even seen a lion so there's that.
If we are counting the ibex its that almost without a doubt. Otherwise I would say a wise old mule deer buck takes the cake based on my experience. Coues are harder to approach but much, much easier to pattern.
