AZ Super Bonus Point Propsal
General Topic
Contributors to this thread:
Bowboy 23-Dec-18
sticksender 23-Dec-18
Dave 23-Dec-18
kentuckbowhnter 23-Dec-18
Knothead 23-Dec-18
Shrewski 23-Dec-18
sticksender 23-Dec-18
bowbender77 23-Dec-18
WapitiBob 23-Dec-18
WapitiBob 23-Dec-18
WapitiBob 23-Dec-18
WapitiBob 23-Dec-18
Shrewski 23-Dec-18
Trial153 23-Dec-18
AZ8 23-Dec-18
wildwilderness 23-Dec-18
Trial153 23-Dec-18
WapitiBob 24-Dec-18
Franklin 24-Dec-18
Mulehorn 24-Dec-18
1boonr 24-Dec-18
WapitiBob 24-Dec-18
bowbender77 24-Dec-18
bowbender77 25-Dec-18
David A. 25-Dec-18
AZ8 25-Dec-18
bowbender77 25-Dec-18
WapitiBob 25-Dec-18
bowbender77 25-Dec-18
Zim 26-Dec-18
TEmbry 26-Dec-18
Knothead 26-Dec-18
From: Bowboy
23-Dec-18

Bowboy's Link
I'm not sure if this was discussed but AZ is trying a Super Bonus Points. I don't think this is a good idea.

From: sticksender
23-Dec-18
Horrible idea, the way it was proposed. My vote is make it available for all species yearly, or (preferably) none.

From: Dave
23-Dec-18
Just how many people do you think would not pay the extra $15 for another point if it was instituted for all species??? My guess would be NONE!!!

Don't get me wrong. I'm not agreeing with the concept. But, making it avail for all species would only make the current problem worse.

23-Dec-18
so now people can get to 30, 40, or 50 points and not draw.

From: Knothead
23-Dec-18
The point is only good for that application and does not accumulate if you don't draw.

Not saying I'm for or against this proposal but G&F has very little to offer of REAL value other than bonus points and tags.

From: Shrewski
23-Dec-18
inhave max points for nothing in AZ so it really doesn’t hurt me. I feel bad for all the guys it screws; and that is 99% of applicants. Just think of all those guys that have been putting in from the start for all species. Now they will have ONE max point chance. That’s a lot of coin down the tubes.

G&F should be able to come up with a better way to make more money than to penalize its most loyal and invested customers.

From: sticksender
23-Dec-18
Knothead, the "good for one year" was just one option in the original proposal. When azgfd surveyed hunters, 75% of respondents preferred that each super bonus point would accrue as an additional permanent point.

Here's the presentation from the Dec 7th Commission Meeting:

F-12-Dec-Comm-Mtg-Dedicated-Funding-Public-Awareness-and-Ed.pdf

They've listed as a potential "enhancement" the option to purchase these points for multiple species.

From: bowbender77
23-Dec-18
Piss poor idea. If they need money that bad they should stop investing so much in the Wolf restoration program IMO.

From: WapitiBob
23-Dec-18
This newest proposal, all species available, is their best option yet and probably the one that will pass. It's a hell of a lot better than the auction tag scheme that started the ball rolling. Fortunately, people saw the scheme for what it was and provided a better option. This newest version is really no different than the hunter ed point and will have the same effect.

From: WapitiBob
23-Dec-18

WapitiBob's Link
If you care to read up on this..

https://www.coueswhitetail.com/forums/topic/79347-conserve-and-protect-meeting-4232018/

From: WapitiBob
23-Dec-18

WapitiBob's Link
more

From: WapitiBob
23-Dec-18
https://www.coueswhitetail.com/forums/topic/79143-sportsmans-input-sought-by-conserveandprotectazorg-unit-wide-raffle-and-auction-tags/

https://www.coueswhitetail.com/forums/topic/79145-new-sfw-tag-grab-initiative/

From: Shrewski
23-Dec-18
Much better!

From: Trial153
23-Dec-18
Seems like we need to looking for ways to take points out of the system vs putting more in.

From: AZ8
23-Dec-18
This proposal is to fund an education program to proactively fight HSUS, et al, from trying to ban lion and/or predator hunting, as they attempted last year. Under state law, that money has to come from a voluntary source. One idea that came up was a habitat stamp. If that was required to apply for draw, then it wouldn't be voluntary.

This is the best idea to fund an education program. Like WapitiBob said, it sure beats the auction/raffle tag idea.

23-Dec-18
When will all this be finalized? Before the next draw?

From: Trial153
23-Dec-18
From an outsider looking in I would rather see no new points added to the system. Howver is it's a choice between some type of purchased point or auction and raffle tags that's an easy choice. If I am redunt I apologize as I didnt read any of the proposals that were linked. Auction/raffle tags are some of the worst as they degrade the establisted draws because they are pulled from the pool of already established tags, most times. They also seem to bred contention among Confederates as they favor those with the means to participate in the auction. So you padding the system even more for some people. Unfortunately it seems that's why these proposals come up in the first place.

From: WapitiBob
24-Dec-18
Wild, it's a ways off; they need to finalize it or drop it, then go from there. 2020 probably.

From: Franklin
24-Dec-18
Sounds like "Umpqua Hunter" in the OP`s link got caught up in the Arizona Points Ponzi Scheme. Read his 2nd post on that link.....damn.

From: Mulehorn
24-Dec-18
Franklin +1 ...would be very depressing to say the least!

From: 1boonr
24-Dec-18
Forget the points-just hunt

From: WapitiBob
24-Dec-18
UH and every other nr got stung when they went to 5/5 in the Bonus Pass round. I don't see the dept going ahead with the single species super point idea, there are too many residents at max points for multiple species.

From: bowbender77
24-Dec-18
Forget the points ? I think not! You can forget yours but mine are bought and paid for with lots of years tossed in. You may be able to hunt like that over there in Illinois but you won't do it here in Arizona.

From: bowbender77
25-Dec-18
All things considered, I think any increase in points for money is not fair to those who have over 25 years of point building or more, only to have the odds of drawing a tag decrease. I understand that department wants to raise more funds, but I oppose the idea, along with any tag grab scam. The whole thought of stopping the H.S. society with money for education is a P.C. pipe dream. The only real way to stop the H.S. crowd is at the ballot box. Other states have passed laws protecting the rite to hunt, fish, and trap I wish Arizona would do the same. I do not like the Az Super Bonus Point Propsal and would not support it.

From: David A.
25-Dec-18
Trad. bow hunters should get an extra bonus point. The tag would just say longbow/recurve. It's harder, but should be (slightly) encouraged.

From: AZ8
25-Dec-18
bowbender77, Arizona tried it at the ballot box in 2010. It was Prop 109 and it went down in flames. Not even close. Unfortunately the ballot was poorly written and not promoted properly. It stated the authority for wildlife policy-making would be by the legislature, instead of the Arizona Game and Fish Department. Freaked out a lot of people, even hunters. Again, good intentions but poorly written. I’ve always felt it should be reintroduced with AZGFD as the sole authority to wildlife management. It would pass! But people want the easy way out. More raffles, more auction tags. Greed and self promotion is the norm now in the hunting community.

If bucks and bulls were all spikes, wildlife management would be so much easier.

From: bowbender77
25-Dec-18
Well AZ8: I think they need to come up with a good plan to win at the ballot box. As long as long as they continue to make rules via legislature, you have to win at the ballot box period. As long as the HS crowd can fuel there fan base with propaganda at the ballot box were screwed. That's why the legislature is the key to the whole process. If one ballot try did not work, then we need another that will win. The nose of the camel came in the tent over 25 years ago when trapping was banned on public land and the coyote explosion that followed. The HS crowd knows how to work the system and they have lots of back up with, groups like PETA, EarthFIRST , GREEN PLEASE, ALF, and on and on. The list is long. As hunters and outdoors men and women, we are under attack at the ballot box. The fruit of propaganda took root with the simple bumper sticker campaign " Little Red Riding Hood LIED ". So now we have wolfs. And the beat goes on......one cut at a time.

From: WapitiBob
25-Dec-18
The legislature granted some rule making authority to the Dept several years ago. Under that authority they changed the nr bonus pass percentage. Last I saw the Dept had not determined if they had full authority to implement this new super point plan.

From: bowbender77
25-Dec-18
I hope not, with a big thank you to WapitiBob for all the intell.

From: Zim
26-Dec-18
Ya I REALLY hope this dies. It's wrong in so many ways. And frankly my head already hurts just trying to plan hunt strategies. With every point cheapening scheme I feel like it's just a matter of time before every state eventually ends up with Maine's convoluted moose lottery fiasco.............buy all the unlimited bonus points you want every year. Basically building a dumpster fire with all the points they sold to us early investors...............

Non-resident Application Fees One chance: $15 (or bonus point only) Three chances: $25 Six chances: $35 10 chances: $55 >10 chances: Available in multiples of 10 (e.g. 50 for $275)

As if this wasn't enough, Maine outfitter special interest groups stole 20% of the total NR tags for outfitter welfare last year.

These point degradation schemes won't end until they are scraping the bottom of the barrel.

From: TEmbry
26-Dec-18
If they don’t accrue, can someone explain how they cheapen already accrued points? I guess if you opted out of $15 the years you actually wanted to draw it would. I’m fine with it if they don’t accrue, a few key raffle tags wouldn’t upset me either.

Auction tags and accruing 2 points per year would be terrible ideas IMO

From: Knothead
26-Dec-18
I tend to agree with TEmbry above. The worse thing G&F can do is allow the new super point(s) to accrue. This will certainly leave out the young hunters or new people just getting into hunting as they will never be able to catch up in the points game. AZ will basically have the Colorado preference point scenario.

I'm still not sold on G&F education plan. If they do a job anything like they do when they annually extort $25 per atv/utv to curtail off road abuse. The super point point funds will be nothing but money down a hole. The good news is that it will create more G&F admin jobs so they can drive around in their 3/4 ton trucks. Sorry, but I am more of a skeptic over the whole plan once they get the funds.

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