Wyoming fee increases
General Topic
Wyoming Game & Fish will charge a credit card processing fee of 2.5% on all application, license, and stamp purchases beginning in 2019. Is there no end to the money sucking by all the Game & Fish Departments around the country? And the beat goes on …..
WY is especially hard to swallow since they are already the most expensive state to apply in. Added the crazy prices increases we seen last year from them. Then this fee on top...can they have planned any worse.
It’s because hunter numbers are decreasing!
Or are hunters getting sick of not drawing and paying too much for the privilege of not getting to hunt?
I've only hunted in states that were OTC, but that will likely change in 2019 as I plan to apply in Kansas since we have family there. I've looked at Iowa for preference points and thought they were high. If Wyoming is more expensive, I doubt I will ever get to hunt there......sad
They are obviously not high enough ...
The fee is paid by them to the CC on a transaction, they are just recovering the cost of that transaction fee. That's how CC make money. They charge per transaction.
Bob H, yes that's true, which is why it'd be nice if they didn't collect the full license fee up front (similar to other western states) and thus reduce our fee cost. This change will cost a NR who applies for most of the big species (Pronghorn, Bison, Bighorn, Goat, Elk, Moose, Deer), up to an additional 335.00 in non-refundable fees. These monies provide no benefit to sportsmen or wildlife, since these proceeds all go to the big credit banks.
Good thing the price of gas is way down. That more than offsets the CC fee
They chose not to go to "pay when drawn" because apps would flood into the system and ruin the odds for those already in. The dept paid 1.8 million last year, those fees are now offset and that 1.8 will stay with the dept.
Once I draw my elk tag next year I will not be playing the game in Wyoming any longer.
Some of the statements made by people on this thread are absolutely false, while others are just plain ignorant rants as to where that money goes and Wyoming being the most expensive state. In case all you card holders aren't aware of it, you're paying more than that 2.5 % any time you use your cards to buy goods and services because the companies build it right into the cost of the product. The money G&F was losing every year having to pay those fees was in the millions that could have gone into habitat improvements, etc. They also saved millions by going to online applications with CC payment up front. You have to pay to play and that's true whether you ski, bowl, go to dinner and a movie, buy groceries. Why is it that hunting fees seems to be such a big deal when nothing else you pay for is any different because the fee is still there, just buried. This fee had to be done up front and that alone has a lot of people griping. The only negative IMHO is that there is no alternative to pay by check or money order, but again, if more than CC transactions were allowed the cost for the G&F would go up and we'd all be paying more for that.
Topgun 30-06 Wyoming is the most expensive state to apply in and gain points. Its over $850 a year non refundable to apply for elk, deer, antelope, sheep, moose, goat, and bison including gaining points for the first 5 species. No other state costs that much.
Wyoming fees and tag costs are insane. Their special draw 0 zero point elk applications shit the bed last year and is the first of many drops you will see as people cash out of WY.
Truth be told all of these western states are struggling to maintain budget because they refuse to raise resident tag fees. Eventually we will find a breaking point that causes the NR to get out of the game at a significant rate. A minor increase in resident fees would be a significant boost to all of these western states, but NRs can't vote so it is what it is....
Has anyone figured out how to get them to cut you a refund check instead of applying back to your CC?
Assuming 100 elk tags in a unit, 85 go to residents and 15 to nrs. The resident tags would generate $5100 and the NR tags $10,380. Simple math says you would have to more than double the resident price to generate similar revenue as NR tags. $120 for an elk tag is still dirt cheap and it would go a long ways to shore up funding.
From: Branden 15-Jan-19 Topgun 30-06 Wyoming is the most expensive state to apply in and gain points. Its over $850 a year non refundable to apply for elk, deer, antelope, sheep, moose, goat, and bison including gaining points for the first 5 species. No other state costs that much. From: Trial153 15-Jan-19 Wyoming fees and tag costs are insane. Their special draw 0 zero point elk applications shit the bed last year and is the first of many drops you will see as people cash out of WY.
You two need to get a room and cry yourselves to sleep over it, LOL! Wyoming may be expensive in the example you pointed out if a person goes in full bore, but a person has to be stupid enough or rich enough to even be in those draws for moose, sheep, goats, and Bison with the odds that you probably won't draw in your lifetime unless you're already in them with 15 or 20 points. For an average guy like myself that for years even cut grass and blew snow for extra money to hunt in Wyoming it's the best state by far for a NR to hunt every year. I just spent two full months out there again last season and it was my 20th straight year out there chasing deer, antelope, and/or elk and I've only used PPs 3 times since they were started in 2006 and am not in the PP rat race any more for any animal! If you know what you're doing, you can hunt up to six antelope and six deer a year along with bull elk every 2 or 3 years and cow/calf every year. I hunt for the fun of it and don't need to hunt a premo unit or even kill an animal to have a great time in the outdoors and I won't apologize to anyone for being brought up by a Dad that got me into the sport for all the right reason. Take a close look and you'll see that Wyoming has the best opportunities for a NR hunter and no other western state comes close!
Mike, your a pontificating ass with a pretty limited scope. Just saying.
Mike please show me in your reply where you were talking about only elk, deer, and antelope? Some of the statements made by people on this thread are absolutely false, while others are just plain ignorant rants as to where that money goes and Wyoming being the most expensive state.
I just pointed out that you were wrong and you come up with a childish response. Just so you know I wasn't complaining. I was correcting misinformation on the internet that you posted.
I am lucky I can afford to hunt Wyoming and pay the fees. That said what they’re doing is ridiculous and unfair in many states are also following suit
Being a snake oil salesman doesn’t make it OK because people are stupid enough to buy snake oil
It helps me hunt more but I will never agree it is fair
If hunter numbers are decreasing, how come the units I could always draw with zero points for pronghorn have been iffy for the last couple years ?
I too will continue to hunt in WY as often as I can. That being said I was overwhelmed by the nickel and diming wyoming does to you to hunt Elk, Coservation permit,archery permit and special fee to hunt general units where feeding occurs. I had to carry 4 documents with me last year to be legal. good grief!
Economy is good! Lots of guys and girls have a few extra dollars for recreation they can squeeze out of the family budget. If you want easy to draw tags then hope for a recession, high gas prices, and higher taxes. That will reduce western hunter numbers faster than anything! I will take the great economy we are all enjoying!
"Is there no end to the money sucking by all the Game & Fish Departments around the country? And the beat goes on ….."
Ha you forgot to mention the other little bonus the same states stick in investor's pockets. Less opportunity due to ever increasing outfitter welfare, point devaluing schemes, auction tags, LO tags, etc. Every year it's another. Most recent AZ & ME.
From: Trial153 15-Jan-19 Mike, your a pontificating ass with a pretty limited scope. Just saying.
Limited scope, LOL! One guy says the G&F gets that 2.5% CC fee, which is false, and another makes a blank statement that Wyoming is the most expensive state just by using a total on PP fees IF a person buys a point for every animal, which I doubt is more than a small percentage of all applicants. You guys that are bitching about costs to hunt in Wyoming must not be looking at all the other states out west and the charges they have to get their total fees right up there, including some having to even buy a nonrefundable fee for a license that you're not even going to use that year or the following years until you possibly draw that license to even apply for a PP. I'm sorry, but IMHO most average guys should be able to do a normal hunt out there just about every year for one or more species in the deer, antelope, and elk category without going into debt. Yep, you have to make cuts here and there, but by saving a few bucks here and there every month it can be done.
Ohio I don’t know if I agree with that. I think it has as much to do with priorities. Not only what other pleasures a person spends their money on but also how many species and states they want to hunt. How can you bitch about cost when you are trying to draw 4 to 6 species in 4 or 5 states. I apply for one thing on a regular basis: Wyoming elk. If I can’t afford one license per year I’m probably a financial #*~ckup. I’ll do occasional other hunts. Alaska moose or caribou or mule deer when I have the points. But I do them when I don’t have the points to draw my general elk license in Wyoming.
If a person likes to drive extravagant vehicles or drink/gamble or spend their money on something else and they can’t afford to hunt as well then they made that choice not the state of Wyoming or any other state.
Question: Does the 2.5% fee apply to debit cards? The bank doesn’t keep a fee for those.
The 2018 nr special elk applications, excluding points only, were up 110 apps over 2017.
From: Mule Power 15-Jan-19 Ohio I don’t know if I agree with that. I think it has as much to do with priorities. Not only what other pleasures a person spends their money on but also how many species and states they want to hunt. How can you bitch about cost when you are trying to draw 4 to 6 species in 4 or 5 states. I apply for one thing on a regular basis: Wyoming elk. If I can’t afford one license per year I’m probably a financial #*~ckup. I’ll do occasional other hunts. Alaska moose or caribou or mule deer when I have the points. But I do them when I don’t have the points to draw my general elk license in Wyoming. If a person likes to drive extravagant vehicles or drink/gamble or spend their money on something else and they can’t afford to hunt as well then they made that choice not the state of Wyoming or any other state.
***Good post pardner because IMHO you're right on the button. I didn't make as much as he said was average in my entire 30 year career, but I managed to buy a decent house along with 20 acres of hunting property in northern MI when I was in my 20s and both were paid off along with putting my stepdaughter all the way through school for her Masters Degree before I retired when I was 55 back in 2002. I only have one main CC that is paid off for a zero balance every month and a second backup one just in case a place doesn't take a Visa card for some reason. I did that and have an IRA well into the six figures because we went on very few vacations and the ones we went on when the kids were still at home weren't to fancy places, but more like camping trips, etc. I have never smoked, chewed, or dipped, very seldom have alcohol in the house, and don't eat steaks that cost $15 a piece. I don't eat at fancy restaurants and my home meals are nothing fancy. Hunting has been my passion ever since my Dad got me started 65 years ago and I"m lucky I've been able to do what I love for as long as I have. I would have loved to have hunted moose, sheep, and goats when I was younger, but finances didn't allow me more than to think about it while watching TV or reading magazines. Now that I could afford to do them I hate to admit it, but the old body is just getting to the point where I'm happy to go out to Wyoming for extended periods every fall.
I think all NR elk hunters should boycott Wy;)
I haven't pulled an antelope tag in the last two years and I live here! Topgun is right, if you use your CC, the fee is built in and you don't see it.
TopGun, you prove your true self often enough to make sure everyone never forgets it.
Mule, financial idiots aren't always born. Sometimes the cards life deals them, finds them there. It'd be more then foolish to forget that. Because life will equally deal those cards to everyone. The only question is when will it.
Game is a state resource. It should be managed for the greatest benefit for the state. The fact is way more people apply for tags than are available. Prices should increase until the point revenue starts to drop.
It is short sighted to raise prices to the point of non participation when the resource depends on participation for the long term viability and sustainability. In other words once you raise prices enough so someone drops is out your rarely bring them back into the fold.
Ridge runner if that’s the case they should just auction every tag then.
If you really want something then you have to strive to earn it. Work overtime. Do side jobs. Start a small business. Where there’s a will there’s a way. You don’t have to go overboard on a hunt. Buy a tag, drive out and set up a tent. Boom you’re hunting. Find partners to split the gas and it grts downright cheap.
Mule Power,
That is exactly what many do to pull it off. I agree with you. That being said, WY and the other western states are banking on a cash cow that may not always be there. When NRs carry 2/3 of the financial burden but only 15% of the tags it is problematic. I am not concerned about fair as WY can manage their resource as they like. Their current model may not keep working just because it always had.
Just to be clear....I am not complaining on my end and am OK paying what they charge for tags. I do one elk hunt a year. Time doesn't allow me to do two, so paying extra for a tag is not that big of a deal. I am looking at this from the perspective of keeping WY game and fish afloat. I think time will come when they need to look at their model and start increasing fees on residents or increasing the tag allotment to NRs. One or the other or both will eventually have to happen.
I'm going for Gen tag 12 out of 13 years, 'cheapie fee' and am very happy to being able to Go For It.
We all $pend out money some way/some how so it is just a personal decision to apply in any given state or not to apply in any given state.
Take a deep breath fella's and try and enjoy our opportunities.
Good luck, Robb
If you really want something then you have to strive to earn it. Work overtime. Do side jobs. Start a small business. Where there’s a will there’s a way. You don’t have to go overboard on a hunt. Buy a tag, drive out and set up a tent. Boom you’re hunting. Find partners to split the gas and it grts downright cheap.
I’ll say this and be done. Because Rob is right. Life is short and this subject is one that has to be truly experienced before reality hits home. If your family and yourself have made it through life to this point with decent health, thank the Lord everyday for it. It’s your wealth maker. Not your work ethic, priorities, choice of employment, dedication, etc.... God Bless fellas.
Robb,
You keep talking like that and you are going to make it difficult to be outraged. Please stop so that we can continue to complain about first world problems.
From: ohiohunter 15-Jan-19 61k is household income avg, not individual income. Topgun I’d kill to retire at 55, you must have a decent pension. I’ll be lucky retire at 70. Furthermore as you stated, this is your passion, the same doesn’t apply to all for whom hunting is a hobby. So to alter ones entire lifestyle to allot funds for a yearly $2k trip, some could say that’s selfish... $2k could take the family to a beach for a long weekend instead of daddy burning $1000+ on a tag he didn’t fill and use up all his vacation for the year. Food for thought it cost my friends over $700 in fuel from Ohio to Colorado. So I disagree everyone does not have the luxury to hunt elk. Truthfully if I were back east I’d have a very hard time swallowing that pill.
***Yes, I have a nice pension that I got after busting my ass for 30+ years, a nice SS check that I started drawing when I turned 62 as I've been putting money into that system since I worked each summer during my high school years in the 60s, along with money the Feds now make me take out of my IRA when I hit 70 1/2. In fact, I have more money coming in now than I ever did before I retired, so yes I've been blessed and I won't apologize to anyone for being smart enough to be able to save and do what I do while not causing a single problem with any of the family. I took good care of both stepkids like they were my own flesh and blood and neither they, nor my wife of 42 years before she passed away suddenly last year, suffered at all and they had no problem with my going out west for a couple weeks out of my six week vacation time I got after 20+ years on the job. No great lifestyle changes had to be made by myself or family all the way through getting them through school and both out into good careers. If others can't or won't do what they need to do like I was able to do that's too bad, but there are many ways a family can live comfortably while the old man does his thing by himself.
Sorry for your loss Mike.
The king's wild game rule is coming to a state near you. Enjoy new age taxation. Out of all Earth's creatures humans are the only species that pays to live and die. Humans keep getting burned by fire over and over with no end in sight even though we do record all previous failures in the history books. But who keeps count how many times humans have failed for the same reason? Generational long term memory loss - GLTML syndrome. There is no place left to hide.
Non residents contribute a bit less than half of the dept’s funding. Not peanuts but we do get a sizeable percentage of the licenses.
Legislature took 9.8 million from the dept the same year as the license increase and stopped future funding. They had a net loss after that round of license increases.
Wyoming is a joke, if you apply for Bison, Sheep, Moose, Goat, Elk, Deer & Antelope. The total price is 12,258 dollars the 2.5 cc fee is 306. your preferance point fees are 424 dollars. your applacation fees are 105 dollars. That my friends is 835 dollars just for applying.
Dude really... if you drew the moose sheep and goat alone you’d be saving millions over what it would cost tonuse those tags in BC or Alaska. I’d be counting my blessings not my dollars.
License fees are a bargain.
Apparently A LOT of people don't understand how a "supple and demand" or free market works. Let me break this down for those that are struggling: Until WY doesn't sell all of their tags, their price is to low. When they do have the price right there will be roughly the same amount of applicants as there are tags available. Capiche?
Wildlife is a public resource. This isnt a free market situation at all. The resource needs to bring in enough revenue so that maintain itself and ensures viability in the future. It's worth is Intrinsic to its existence not because of what it can provide Monetarily.
You want a real free market? since it's a limited resource the auction all the tags off and see where it gets you. Capisce?
I wish that were true... ^^^ (at one time it was)
It is an additional fee that goes to the Credit Card companies...for processing the transaction.
Wyoming had a meeting and heard from the public and outfitters discussing the issue...one Commissioner actually asked that the credit card companies be contacted about reducing this fee or simply not charging them...but thats not how it works.
Both sides were well prepared but in the end this is how the world works...everyone gets a cut for their role in the process. In this case 2.5% for the ease of moving money and not writing a check finding an envelope adding a return address and stamp and getting the application to the mailbox or post office. Other states do/will do the same or simply build in that 2.5% in as a greater increase in the tag price.
Mule Power: I called WY G&F at 307 777 4600 just now and asked if I could use a debit card to pay. The lady said that yes, I could use a debit card, but that I would still be charged the additional 2.5%.
Every state pays the cc fee and every applicant pays the credit card fee to the state. Wyoming's transparency has caused the usual and expected outrage when anything goes up in price. I'm surprised even the residents aren't storming the capital over their $1.55 cc fee.
If it makes anyone feel better, Wyoming still takes about a $0.50 hit on each nr app. We pay 2.5% on the tag fee. They pay 2.5% on the total. My guess is they actually pay 2.0%
No one is taking the hit on the tag fee. Wyoming chooses to use a credit only system and, therefore has to pay to do it.
Remember Kiko Tovar (one of the chapter member of PBS and bowyer KT44 recurve) discussion. He was one of the first NR bowhunter to apply for S.D. and apparently he was in Rapid City for the promo with the governor and he shouted out towards Wy., why hunt in an over price NR license state when one can do it for a lot less in S.D., and that got a standing applause. Just a time piece that was interesting to this issue.
Thanks Elkstabber. I’m gonna have to callBS on that!
Lost Arra, the 2% you cited is typical for a domestic, card-not-present transaction. More for rewards cards and foreign cards. Banks don't usually give the merchant their fees back upon doing a refund. Typically the bank takes another percentage bite when they do a refund. Usually a smaller percentage of say 1/2 to 1%. I wouldn't be surprised if 2/3 or more of the total app monies WY takes in each year are refunded.
I for one hope that all the other non residents that were applying for moose in Wyoming quit this year over the 2.5% cc fee so I have a better chance of drawing. If I do draw I will have spent approximately $4,000 on preference points and the application fee to get the license this year and I think of it as a bargain if I draw. I also have 21 moose preference and weighted points in Colorado and thanks to what the CPW did with their pay later application system last year my odds of ever drawing are going into the toilet.
The Dept pays 2.3% on the purchase and $0.10 on the refund. Debit cards are subject to the fee because I suspect all of them go thru visa or MasterCard, thus their logo on the card.
I’m a cup half full guy... at least I don’t have to buy a stamp.
Mule Power : It never ceases to amaze me. A guy posts his opinion about something on here & some of the Bowsite experts jump all over him, if it don't jive up with theirs. For your information I've been playing this game a long time. Yes, I have drawn 5 sheep tags, 4 moose tags & 2 goat tags. So your dig don't affect me. I drew a moose tag in Wyoming when they were 150 dollars, also the first year they raised it to 300. I have tons of points in most all western states. Right now my favorite game animal to hunt is the wolf. Hope you enjoy you tags as much as I have when you draw. Good luck to all !!!!!
And what did you pay for your pickup truck the year you got a moose tag for $150?
I forgot why I quite visiting Bowsite, now I remember.
From: Mark 18-Jan-19 I forgot why I quite visiting Bowsite, now I remember.
I doubt there will be many that miss you if you don't visit us any more!!!
Topgun 30-06 maybe you and all your pontification y should hit the road, I am sure I am not the only one that wont miss your spew.
From: Trial153 18-Jan-19 Topgun 30-06 maybe you and all your pontification y should hit the road, I am sure I am not the only one that wont miss your spew.
BITE ME seeing as you seem to very seldom post anything but negative BS and it's mostly incorrect too, LOL!!!
TG...relax this isn't MM!!
From: elkmo 18-Jan-19 TG...relax this isn't MM!!
LOL! You're right, but it seems as many times it's just as bad with a few that make statements that are just plain false like a few on this thread and then don't care to be given the "facts" that show they're wrong!
I'm in when I draw my next Wyoming elk tag it will be my last. I'm almost 71 the point creep will take me out of the game If I draw a tag this year I will be around 80 to get my next tag. no sense in wasting my wifes money
From: ohiohunter 18-Jan-19 TG, please itemize all false statements and counter them with the truth. Also please separate your thoughts, your massive paragraphs of cut and paste are nauseating.
You can BITE ME too since it looks like you're another that just likes to bring things back up to stir the pot! MY posts were all in plain English and nothing in them was incorrect. Sorry if you lack reading comprehension, but that's your problem, not mine!
