David Petersen turns on bowhunters
General Topic
Contributors to this thread:
Jaquomo 21-Jan-19
WV Mountaineer 21-Jan-19
Jaquomo 21-Jan-19
cnelk 21-Jan-19
elkstabber 21-Jan-19
COHOYTHUNTER 21-Jan-19
Jaquomo 21-Jan-19
ground hunter 21-Jan-19
JSW 21-Jan-19
SDHNTR(home) 21-Jan-19
Ollie 21-Jan-19
yooper89 21-Jan-19
B19 21-Jan-19
Bowfreak 21-Jan-19
Woods Walker 21-Jan-19
Jaquomo 21-Jan-19
hawkeye in PA 21-Jan-19
TD 21-Jan-19
Buglmin 21-Jan-19
Trial153 21-Jan-19
Salagi 21-Jan-19
Dirk Diggler 21-Jan-19
Deertick 21-Jan-19
ground hunter 21-Jan-19
Trial153 21-Jan-19
Trial153 21-Jan-19
Dirk Diggler 21-Jan-19
Jaquomo 21-Jan-19
Shrewski 21-Jan-19
Trial153 21-Jan-19
Jaquomo 21-Jan-19
Trial153 21-Jan-19
Dirk Diggler 21-Jan-19
Dirk Diggler 21-Jan-19
Trial153 21-Jan-19
Grasshopper 21-Jan-19
Jaquomo 21-Jan-19
Dirk Diggler 21-Jan-19
Jaquomo 21-Jan-19
Trial153 21-Jan-19
orionsbrother 21-Jan-19
Jaquomo 21-Jan-19
Franklin 21-Jan-19
Stix 21-Jan-19
DanaC 21-Jan-19
Stix 21-Jan-19
Deertick 21-Jan-19
ground hunter 21-Jan-19
Stix 21-Jan-19
Stix 21-Jan-19
sdkhunter 21-Jan-19
ground hunter 21-Jan-19
Ramhunter 21-Jan-19
cnelk 21-Jan-19
DoorKnob 21-Jan-19
Surfbow 22-Jan-19
yooper89 22-Jan-19
Teeton 22-Jan-19
IdyllwildArcher 22-Jan-19
Ollie 22-Jan-19
tobinsghost 22-Jan-19
COHOYTHUNTER 22-Jan-19
WV Mountaineer 22-Jan-19
Panther Bone 22-Jan-19
midwest 22-Jan-19
Jethro 22-Jan-19
Teeton 22-Jan-19
Dirk Diggler 22-Jan-19
JohnMC 22-Jan-19
Trial153 22-Jan-19
Stix 22-Jan-19
Dirk Diggler 22-Jan-19
Stix 22-Jan-19
yooper89 22-Jan-19
elkster 22-Jan-19
Trial153 22-Jan-19
shooter 22-Jan-19
bowana 711 22-Jan-19
Wapiti Hunter 22-Jan-19
Elkslaya 22-Jan-19
Trial153 23-Jan-19
Jaquomo 23-Jan-19
Stix 23-Jan-19
Trial153 23-Jan-19
Jaquomo 23-Jan-19
Jaquomo 23-Jan-19
cnelk 23-Jan-19
Stix 23-Jan-19
COHOYTHUNTER 23-Jan-19
cnelk 23-Jan-19
Ollie 23-Jan-19
DaleHajas 23-Jan-19
Dirk Diggler 23-Jan-19
Grasshopper 23-Jan-19
Bob McArthur 23-Jan-19
Surfbow 23-Jan-19
Dirk Diggler 23-Jan-19
Buglmin 23-Jan-19
JL 23-Jan-19
IdyllwildArcher 23-Jan-19
JL 23-Jan-19
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Glunt@work 23-Jan-19
Dirk Diggler 23-Jan-19
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WV Mountaineer 23-Jan-19
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JL 23-Jan-19
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Bowfreak 24-Jan-19
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Dirk Diggler 24-Jan-19
TD 24-Jan-19
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IdyllwildArcher 24-Jan-19
Missouribreaks 24-Jan-19
WV Mountaineer 24-Jan-19
Dirk Diggler 24-Jan-19
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IdyllwildArcher 24-Jan-19
Trial153 24-Jan-19
DaleHajas 24-Jan-19
Trial153 24-Jan-19
cnelk 24-Jan-19
Trial153 24-Jan-19
cnelk 24-Jan-19
Trial153 24-Jan-19
JL 24-Jan-19
LUNG$HOT 25-Jan-19
Beendare 28-Jan-19
StormFiber 28-Jan-19
Adventurewriter 28-Jan-19
elkster 28-Jan-19
Wapitidung 28-Jan-19
Michael Schwister 29-Jan-19
TD 29-Jan-19
Jaquomo 29-Jan-19
COHOYTHUNTER 29-Jan-19
Dirk Diggler 29-Jan-19
TD 29-Jan-19
elkster 29-Jan-19
DaleHajas 31-Jan-19
ground hunter 31-Jan-19
Michael Schwister 31-Jan-19
Dirk Diggler 01-Feb-19
GLB 02-Feb-19
WV Mountaineer 02-Feb-19
Surfbow 02-Feb-19
DaleHajas 02-Feb-19
MuleyBum 02-Feb-19
Jaquomo 02-Feb-19
DaleHajas 02-Feb-19
Trial153 02-Feb-19
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ground hunter 03-Feb-19
Jaquomo 03-Feb-19
MuleyBum 03-Feb-19
DaleHajas 03-Feb-19
From: Jaquomo
21-Jan-19
David Petersen, noted hunting writer and a founder of BHA, published the letter below in yesterday's Denver Post. Apparently the Colorado Bowhunter Association is an evil, self-serving "special interest" but BHA is not?

As background, there are some proposals on the table that would screw bowhunters. The CBA is trying to prevent loss of bowhunting opportunity. According to Petersen, this is a bad thing. Read it and judge for yourself.

___________________________

Hunters must speak up now to protect wildlife

Every five years, Colorado Parks and Wildlife revises its big game season structure, which determines how many licenses will be issued in various seasons for the next five years. That time is now, and if you are among the growing number of hunters who agree there are way too many of us out there in September (unlimited either-sex archery elk tags, plus deer, bear, pronghorn, grouse and muzzle-loading ), now is your chance to help spark needed change. Time is short, with the comment period ending Feb. 4, and I urge you to go online and fill out the opinion survey today. It only takes minutes.

Wildlife management in Colorado is dysfunctional, with science and public interest being overruled by politics and special interests. Please take this opportunity to tell CPW what we are seeing out there and how we feel about it.

If we who hunt in Colorado (residents and visitors alike) don’t speak up, then self-serving groups like the Colorado Bowhunter’s Association will continue to have their way at the expense of the wildlife resource and the vast majority of hunters. (And by the way, I am a bowhunter.)

As a group, we hunters are unsophisticated when it comes to biology and politics, always seeking more opportunity while refusing to sacrifice anything for the long-term good. Now is our chance to change that sad history. Please take the survey.

David Petersen, Durango

21-Jan-19
So, the guy is against Bowhunter’s getting anything but a reduction in licenses. What a genius.

With all the added gun seasons, over killing of cows by rifle quota, and increase in predators that has taken place over the last ten years, this fella thinks it’s bowhunters that should be punished? I can’t get his thoughts.

I love to rifle hunt as much as anybody. But, what this guy is suggesting is a complete oxymoron of the problems. What a jack wagon. Preach about sacrifices, science, etc... yet leave that out as his own reasoning.

From: Jaquomo
21-Jan-19
He did the same thing to us when we were fighting to keep spring bear seasons.

From: cnelk
21-Jan-19
Im sure someone we know could produce an eloquently written rebuttal .... Lou?

From: elkstabber
21-Jan-19
I used to be a big fan of David Petersen's writing. I read every article that I could find and bought all of his books. I outgrew that. I'm no longer a fan of his.

David seems to be making three points:

1. Make your opinion known to the CPW during the comment period.

2. The CBA is evil and self-serving.

3. There are too many bowhunters out there so let's limit tags.

Given that David Petersen has made a living for many years with his writing he must have been limited in published words or else he would have better explained his points. If you've read any of his books you know that he's not short on words.

Unfortunately, there simply isn't enough material in his writing to figure out what he's really getting at. #1 is obvious. #3 has been mentioned here on bowsite a bunch of times. So #2 is the mystery. From what I've learned about the CBA they are the bowhunters' greatest advocates in CO. There is no doubt that the CBA has benefitted all of us that have hunted in CO.

So it seems that David Petersen just wanted to take a free swing at the CBA, probably for personal reasons, if I had to guess.

Jaquomo, FWIW he probably stood against the spring bear season because he simply hates predator hunting. He's written about it a lot. That's primarily what turned me off from him. It's either David Petersen's way or it's wrong.

From: COHOYTHUNTER
21-Jan-19
Yes, I think someone who is a wordsmith should write a rebuttal, not only that but someone who gets the big picture.

From: Jaquomo
21-Jan-19
Elkstabber, I was also a fan and have several of his books. But he seemed to drift more and more toward, "If not my way, then it's unethical".

CBA presented hard statistical evidence showing that the miniscule cow harvest by bowhunters is not a factor in the decline of the elk population in SW CO. There are many other significant factors in play, but bowhunters are not one of them.

Petersen is a professional writer. He understands syntax and word counts. He could easily have explained his real intent but for some reason he has a bone about the CBA and chose to generalize and throw the whole organization under the bus in a large public, nonhunting forum. I hope all bowhunters remember this next time one of his books is released.

21-Jan-19
BHA,,, not doing well in the UP,,, for the most part they are anti trapping,,,, at least their reps are, or know little about it or the issues.......

From: JSW
21-Jan-19
Wow! Thanks for sharing that Lou. It's not surprising though.

He makes is sound like the CBA only serves it's officers or an elite group. The CBA represents Colorado Bowhunters. They serve Colorado Bowhunters to the best of their ability. They are all volunteers and do the best that they can. Bowhunting in Colorado would be nothing without the CBA. Thank God they are so self serving.

If you bowhunt in Colorado and don't like what CBA is doing, join, get involved and make a difference. To quote Fred Bear, "If you are not working to protect hunting, then you are working to destroy it."

There is a lot going on with the upcoming season structures in Colorado. There is a big push to limit all elk tags for bowhunters but not for rifle hunters. I can't think of anything more ridiculous. Get involved people. Make a difference.

There is a lot more I would like to say but I won't.

From: SDHNTR(home)
21-Jan-19
There is so much unexplained innuendo in that post that the point is lost. It only left me confused after reading it.

From: Ollie
21-Jan-19
I got sick and tired of Petersen's ramblings in the column he wrote for Traditional Bowhunter magazine. Always standing on his soap box pointing his finger at everyone telling them they were not as ethical as he. He writes about there being too many people buying up prime hunting lands and building houses on wild lands yet he did the same himself...purchasing a house at the end of a road butting up to national forest lands.

From: yooper89
21-Jan-19
All right which sponsors do we need to boycott?

Just kidding but really. I wasn't in CO when the spring bear season was voted out, but WV has it right - guy seems like a total jack wagon.

From: B19
21-Jan-19
I'm a little removed from the situation but I will say this; Having seen what our provincial bowhunting association has done for archery opportunities I have very little respect for any bowhunter who isn't a member of their state/provincial bowhunting organization. Just no excuse for it. There's flaws in every group that might rub some the wrong way but at the end of the day they are doing FAR more good for bowhunting than bad. Hard to see any good coming from publishing something like that in a public paper, aside from maybe satisfying one's own personal vendetta. Disgusting.

From: Bowfreak
21-Jan-19
Is this guy still affiliated with BHA? If so, it gives me even more reason to stay away.

From: Woods Walker
21-Jan-19
BHA? Say no more.........

From: Jaquomo
21-Jan-19
He was the founder of the Colorado BHA chapter, which I believe was the first state chapter. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Say, isn't BHS a self-serving special interest group? Last time I checked.....

21-Jan-19
I had a good bowhunting friend that didn't like Dave 30 years ago. I didn't understand then but do now.

From: TD
21-Jan-19
What this seems to be..... if I'm understanding correctly.... is not even wildlife biology and management, but a failure to grasp simple mathematics. Take away bowhunting opportunity, which is but a fraction of the take..... and don't touch firearms? Is that the gist?

That's smacks of being in someones back pocket. Self interest indeed......

From: Buglmin
21-Jan-19
I'm one of the lucky ones that know Dave, and the stuff he's dreamed of. Dave was responsible for trying to get a longer season for just traditional bowhunters in Colorado five tears ago. His long letter and signed petition simply stated that traditional bowhunters deserved a chance to hunt rutting elk by themselves.

Dave hates the idea of otc licenses, thinks it should all be a draw now. He hates the idea of otc with caps for non residents, thinks he deserves to be in the woods with less pressure on elk. He's something else...

His stance in BHA is something else. He used to drive his lil Toyota pickup everywhere to get closer to game, off road and all. But yet it's not ok for guys to drive atvs in to retrieve game. He's got quite a name for himself around Durango, has his own followers that really worship him. It's a shame to see him bashing the CBA again, but what else is new from Dave.

From: Trial153
21-Jan-19
How are David Petersons personal options and this letter Affiliated with BHA or any other group for that matter?

Looks like its signed "David Petersen, Durango"

That would be like me making a statement and some of you saying I represent the NRA or P&Y because I am a life member in the organizations.

If you want to argue that the guys views are wrong, have at it. I might even agree with you. However if you play the guilt by association card, well I can call bull shit on that.

From: Salagi
21-Jan-19
It didn't take but reading one or two of his articles years ago to decide he was an egotistical snob. My opinion hasn't changed.

From: Dirk Diggler
21-Jan-19
If he was just a life member I'd agree with ya trial.

From: Deertick
21-Jan-19
BHA seems to be taking some self-inflicted hits lately, that's for sure! I was considering attending a local "pint night" soon, not as a "joiner" but to see what's up with this crowd. This news makes me even more skeptical.

I don't think we all need to agree on everything, but this guy doesn't seem like he shares that sentiment with the way he's talking. I generally will talk to anyone ... right up until they won't listen to my thoughts.

21-Jan-19
I join my state organizations, 2 of them, since I have a house, in 2 states, just across from each other,,,,, don't ask,,, haha...... my point is its the state bowhunting org that is fighting for its bowhunters...... join the ranks

Colorado Bowhunters Association is a great group, and you would not have spit, without them

From: Trial153
21-Jan-19
From: Jaquomo21-Jan-19Private Reply David Petersen, noted hunting writer and a founder of BHA, published the letter below in yesterday's Denver Post. Apparently the Colorado Bowhunter Association is an evil, self-serving "special interest" but BHA is not?

First off Peterson wasn’t a founder of BHA. If you want to who was and when BHA was first organized. Here is a link.

https://www.backcountryhunters.org/about

Secondly Peterson was one of several people that organize the Colorado Chapter of BHA. If you want to learn more about the Colorado chapter, it’s programs, BOD, and leadership team you will find it in the link below. However I suspect that none of the facts matter to and you rather post agenda based miss information.

https://www.backcountryhunters.org/colorado_bha

From: Trial153
21-Jan-19
And for the record, from what I seen first hand of CO seasons of late I agree that some changes need to be looked at. I do not however coming from a very basic user perspective agree that the problem lies in bow seasons or bow hunting. While I admit to being overwhelming Biased towards bowhunting I think it’s hard not to look at the multitude of rifle staggered rifle seasons In CO and as not see it as unsubstainable from a management perspective.

From: Dirk Diggler
21-Jan-19

Dirk Diggler's Link
In BHA's own words David Petersen is the founder of the Colorado chapter of BHA. he also served as the president of the chapter for a number of years. It is what it is trial.

From: Jaquomo
21-Jan-19
So Trial, you're saying BHA isn't a self-serving special interest? ROTFLMAO!

Wonder why he didn't call out the state ML association, or those lobbying for more rifle seasons during September?

From: Shrewski
21-Jan-19
Yeah. Never been a fan of ol’ “Elkheart” Always seemed like a HUGE hypocrite.

From: Trial153
21-Jan-19
In BHA's own words David Petersen is the founder of the Colorado chapter of BHA. he also served as the president of the chapter for a number of years. It is what it is trial.

So you saying he in this letter is speaking for either the CO chapter or BHA? Show me where it’s states that in any way shape or form?

From: Jaquomo
21-Jan-19
And he was on the national BOD. Oops...

From: Trial153
21-Jan-19
Lou your your own self serving interest aren’t you? Aren’t we all.

You still didn’t show where other than in your own convoluted mind show where Peterson is speaking for or representing BHA?

From: Dirk Diggler
21-Jan-19

From: Dirk Diggler
21-Jan-19

Dirk Diggler's Link
In fact in David's simple mind the whole concept of BHA was his, he just gave it to somebody else. Guys full of himself.

From: Trial153
21-Jan-19
I belong to all these organizations to promote and protect my interests. Is that self serving? Isn’t it the duty of the organization to serve its membership?

Pope and Young, to promote and protect Bowhunting. BHA, to preserve and protect public lands and water. NRA to protect the 2nd admendment. RMEF to further the conservation of elk and it habitat.WSF to put sheep on the mountain.

From: Grasshopper
21-Jan-19
We have a new governor with ties to animal welfare, we have 4 new wildlife commissioners, with 3 more appointments on the way this summer. We have a CPW with no director. Now is not a good time to be calling out fellow hunters.

I was told Petersen is no longer on the board, but that is hard for folks to disassociate too. Hanoi Jane will always be Hanoi Jane.

I hope BHA starts coming to commission meetings and testifying on behalf of hunters, on hunting issues rather than just being a "land use" organization. I really like some of the members. Ivan was at the last commission meeting, he is awesome. Tim Brass is awesome. Hope they show up and testify on the proposed Bobcat ban, that is a hunter/hunting issue, not a land use issue.

From: Jaquomo
21-Jan-19
Trial, read Petersens letter again. He rips self serving special interests. Calls out the CBA as one. His words, not mine. I agree with you. Every organization I belong to, all three Boards on which I serve, are all self serving special interests.

From: Dirk Diggler
21-Jan-19
Grasshopper they do most of that kind of work from behind the scenes on the down low.

From: Jaquomo
21-Jan-19
Good point about Polis and the Commission appointments. His husband is big into animal rights, and according to the HSUS, Polis opposed the "so-called Sportsmen’s Heritage and Recreational Enhancement (SHARE) Act (H.R. 2406), a grab bag of the most extreme practices involving trophy hunting and commercial trapping of wild animals".

Not a good time for a prominent outdoorsman like Petersen to be ripping and dividing hunters on a huge public forum.

From: Trial153
21-Jan-19
I think your the one that needs to read it again, because nowhere does it state that he is speaking for BHA. He specifically calls out the CBA, and "other self serving special interests". What ever the hell that means.

The issue I have is that you brought BHA into this conversation because its YOUR agenda. The fact that he is a member gives you a, rather weak excuse to take a shot at BHA, all to SERVE YOUR interests. Could it be that the only reason you posted this was to take an unwarranted shot a BHA? There you go being self serving to your agenda.

21-Jan-19
From Dirk’s link, it seems as though he breaks hunters down into two categories; Elite and Slob.

Unfortunate. Misguided.

From: Jaquomo
21-Jan-19
Trial, take a deep breath, buddy. I never said he was speaking for BHA. Simply said he was a founder of BHA. That is true. Its a prominent part of his bio.

I posted it because bowhunters need to know that an outspoken, nationally-known bowhunter is publicly ripping other bowhunters to nonhunters without giving specifics. He is also a well-known divider, as OB and others have noted. He needs to just shut up and work with the Commission for positive change instead of damaging bowhunters in front of hundreds of thousands of readers.

I just hope whatever new policies are implemented that something comes back around to screw him.

From: Franklin
21-Jan-19
So Peterson is speaking out of both sides of his mouth then...lol You can`t really disassociate yourself from an organization when you are the "Founder". From that point on....unless you disassociate or clearly state these are his personal viewpoints and NOT that of BHA....which he has done neither. He is speaking on behalf of BHA.

If this was his personal viewpoint he should of stated as such. So as far as most are concerned....he is speaking for Col. BHA.

From: Stix
21-Jan-19
His opinion is not that of BHA, but with his association, he should be more careful of his choice of words.

He didn't mention his BHA affiliation in his letter, so he was speaking on behalf of himself only.

I'm a BHA life member, and proud of what the orgaization does. My personal opinion of the Colorado Bowhunters association as with most BHA members is one of respect for all the work they do to protect hunting, not just bowhunting, youth involvement, and conservation to name a few. They have always been involved in a positive way with Colorado Parks and Wildlife, and the Wildlife Commission. In other words, they show up.

From: DanaC
21-Jan-19
I see no substance in his letter, just bald-face assertions. What are the exact regulation proposals, if any, and what are the exact stances of the CBA on those proposals? "They're self-serving" is no substitute for facts. I *expect* a special interest group to look out for its own interests, that's what they do. "I don't like all those other people in the woods" isn't a logical argument, just whining.

From: Stix
21-Jan-19
DanaC, that is probably the best post I have heard regarding this: there is no substance to his letter, just alot of whining

From: Deertick
21-Jan-19
+1 DanaC ... "no substitute for facts"

21-Jan-19
Stix,,,, to give the BHA a fair shake, what is their position on trapping? talking to those who manned one of your booths, last year here in the Great Lakes, they were not positive on that....

I was curious on that,,,,, Colorado is not a trapping friendly place anymore, and its going to get worse,,,,,,

From: Stix
21-Jan-19
From BHA website: "BHA (including all of our state chapters) supports important wildlife management tools like hunting, fishing and trapping unequivocally where legally established."

https://www.backcountryhunters.org/bha_s_position_on_the_use_of_airbows_for_hunting

From: Stix
21-Jan-19
https://www.backcountryhunters.org/bha_s_position_on_the_use_of_airbows_for_hunting

From: sdkhunter
21-Jan-19
I hate to break this to anyone but that’s what most organizations do - look after the interests of their members... why the hell would a bunch of bow hunters lobby for more gun seasons and on the same hand why would gun hunters lobby for more archery seasons, access, etc.

Most Everyone has an agenda or is selling something - people that say otherwise aren’t being honest with themselves...

21-Jan-19
stix,,, thanks for the heads up......

From: Ramhunter
21-Jan-19
Thank you Mr. Peterson for bringing the 5 yr season structure and the CBA to the Denver Post. An official CBA response is forthcoming. Great chance to get our position out beyond our membership.

Todd Brickel Vice Chairman - Public Relations

From: cnelk
21-Jan-19
Definitely look forward to it.

Please post here if possible

From: DoorKnob
21-Jan-19
He nailed it right there ----> As a group, we hunters are unsophisticated when it comes to biology and politics, always seeking more opportunity while refusing to sacrifice anything for the long-term good.

From: Surfbow
22-Jan-19
Mr. Petersen's letter resonated with me, so I finally pulled the trigger and signed up with CBA for 3 years...

From: yooper89
22-Jan-19
Going to get my wife signed up this week

From: Teeton
22-Jan-19
So anyone know if the NRA is going to help us bowhunters keep our tags??? Sarcasm!!

What the hell does BHA have to do with his letter. Please tell me??? This is just a way to put a bad pug for BHA because you don't like them. Grow up . By the way I'm not a member of BHA and am a life of the NRA and a many year member of CBA and I live in Pennsylvania..

22-Jan-19
It's a bummer to see Peterson entering the political fray in this way. I liked his books and I largely agree with him on a lot of stuff.

That said, it's been shown that bowhunters taking cows are having a negligible influence on the topic at hand and I find it very at-odds with Peterson's "mantra" that he should mind that a few hunters "harvest" cows, when the real issue is how many total animals are being killed.

I totally understand gun hunters and bow hunters wanting CO to go to a draw to limit the hoards, whether or not I agree with the move. But honestly, if elk numbers are down, the way to fix that is to address the gun tags as that's where the heavy hitting is done.

Lastly, my opinion is that the attack on CBA was ridiculous and unfortunate. CBA has been a force for good, period. Also, this has nothing to do with BHA and Peterson is not a founding member of BHA.

From: Ollie
22-Jan-19
I agree with others that this thread should not be about BHA. Nowhere in his comments did David Petersen mention BHA nor did he claim to be speaking on their behalf. Opinions on BHA should be a separate issue and not appropriate for this thread.

From: tobinsghost
22-Jan-19
I really don't care who he is or what organization he is a part of...he is an idiot! Glad the CBA will print something up.

From: COHOYTHUNTER
22-Jan-19
Ollie, I would agree with you if he was just a regular ol' member of the BHA. BUT, seeing as how he is the founder of the Colorado chapter and is very involved with the organization currently; if he wanted to keep his opinion separate from that of the BHA, he should have said as much in his article. The fact is he did not. Thus, a normal and specifically an 'unsophisticated' person might feel as though his opinions represent that of the BHA.

22-Jan-19
Nobody felt he represented the BHA. Only that this is possibly the mindset of the CO chapter members.

Here is the deal, radical ideas cause less then favorable responses sometimes. While I understand separating the two from one another, I also understand Lou’s point. You’ve got a guy that took opportunity to cast a shadow on the CBA. He’s got to expect backlash from it. And, when someone does something as dumb as this, you’ve got to wander why. That’s human. Not conspiracy theories.

22-Jan-19
Hilarious post-modern take on this by a bunch of outdoorsmen.

Saying that his views personally have no reflection on his role in an organization he’s involved with is an abject failure at being honest with ourselves and how history has always worked with humans.

Within this very thread are admissions that interest groups look out for themselves. However, we will absolve Petersen of his interests and leverage with BHA. That’s terrible reasoning.

From: midwest
22-Jan-19
He is a prominent member of the BHA. If he wasn't representing the views of the BHA, he should have made that clear because, obviously, some believe he is representing their views.

Maybe the BHA needs to make a statement now.

From: Jethro
22-Jan-19
Regardless of his affiliation it was a d!@khead move to take a public cheap shot at the CBA. 1 motive to that letter. Make the CBA look bad amidst the upcoming agendas and survey issues you got going on out there.

From: Teeton
22-Jan-19
Was Petersen a member any other organizations? Or on any other organization committees?? If so should we call them out?? Or only the ones that we don't like?? Does this mean from now on anytime someone speaks, they speak for all organizations that, that person is involved with.

From: Dirk Diggler
22-Jan-19
Denial ain't just a river in africa.

From: JohnMC
22-Jan-19
If nothing else it is another example of insight into the minds of the leaders/founders of BHA.

From: Trial153
22-Jan-19
I think it’s a reflection on traditional archers. Gives insite to what they are really thinking.

From: Stix
22-Jan-19
I shoot traditional too, and despite some disagreements with CBA on some issues, the job they do representing all hunting is invaluable.

Years ago, the Colorado Traditional Archers Society voted not to get involved position wise with hunting, but rather let CBA take the lead on that because they are so effective.

So his views are not the mindset or positions of traditional archers or BHA.

From: Dirk Diggler
22-Jan-19
Stix you should get on the book of faces and read the conversation BHA members have with one another. Enlightening to say the least.

From: Stix
22-Jan-19
I dont do facebook, being on this site is just about enough for me, but next time I see someone that does facebook, I will look at it. Thanks.

From: yooper89
22-Jan-19
Dirk, can you link? I don't use my facebook, but I'm curious as to what you're referring to.

From: elkster
22-Jan-19
Dirk, What do you reference? I'm not on book of faces but give us specifics as to what is " enlightening". Are they posting about ending seasons, do they enjoy organic food too much, don't do innuendo and leave.

From: Trial153
22-Jan-19
You should get on the community forum here and read some of the treads, enlightening to say the least.

From: shooter
22-Jan-19
Maybe Dave's loin cloth is a little too tight again????

From: bowana 711
22-Jan-19
DAVID PETERSEN IS A HYPOCRITE HE NEEDS TO QUITE HIS OWN VENDETTA. TO ATTACHE ALL HUNTERS. WHO GENERATE MILLIONS OF DOLLORS FOR THE RIGHT TO HUNT AND FEED THERE FAMILYS. IHAVE BEEN HUNTING FOR 52 YRS. WITH A BOW AND ARROW. AND DAVID CAN KISS MY YOU NO WHAT.

22-Jan-19
"I think it’s a reflection on traditional archers. Gives insite to what they are really thinking."

What?????? Trial, are you saying David Peterson is a reflection on and gives insight into what "traditional" archers are thinking? As a bowhunter who likes to shoot wooden arrows out of different styles and vintages of longbows and recurves (some more "traditional" than others I guess), I take exception to that absurd remark! I am a life member of the CBA and have always appreciated the voice they give me as a bowhunter in Colorado, both when I lived there and since I moved away several years ago. I wish New Mexico had such an organization. As for BHA I have never joined and will never join an organization whose purpose is to lock-up our public land with more federal government regulation and control, providing access only to those willing to hike or horsepack for miles to enjoy hunting and fishing opportunities. I use and enjoy wilderness areas probably more than the average bowhunter (especially because I've lived very close to several wilderness areas for the last 40 years), but that doesn't mean ALL public land should be turned into roadless wilderness areas with no access--not even by mountain bikers. There is a need to responsibly use natural resources on our public lands for fuel, mineral production, and building materials. Motorized public land users should have the same privileges to responsibly recreate on public lands (albeit limited) as those of us who chose to "use the quads God gave us" as BHA used to say so pompously. That doesn't mean I'm not friends with plenty of BHA members but David Peterson doesn't speak for this "traditional" archer!

As stated several times above, all "conservation" organizations are by their nature "self-serving groups". Why form an organization if you don't have some type of mission or purpose? Join the ones that best serve your own desires. If you're a bowhunter who lives or hunts in Colorado, the CBA, while far from perfect, is one of the best bowhunting organizations in the country.

Mike

From: Elkslaya
22-Jan-19
What else is new? Hunters bashing hunters, associations bashing associations. Meanwhile I’m thinking of where I’m gonna hunt in 2019.........

From: Trial153
23-Jan-19
Yes Mike I am saying that Petersen is a reflection on traditional bowhunters. I dont have to have facts from his statement that support it. I just get to spout it off as fact. The same way others on here like the OP get to spout of that Petersen in this letter is speaking for BHA, even though he makes no reference to that. They have no facts from the letter to support that postion however they spout it off like fact because its supports their own agenda. Petersen is a traditional archer, he stated he wants to limit archery seasons in CO therefore he must be speaking for traditional archers everywhere. BTW what other organizations does he belong to, so that we can lump them in with him and HIS letter? Why stop at BHA and traditional archers? Nothing like using Absurdity to illustrate the absurd.

From: Jaquomo
23-Jan-19
Trial, why dont you show us where I said anything about Petersen "speaking for BHA". Never, ever did I say that. I simply noted that he was listed as "a founder of BHA" as per his bio and the BHA website.

I also said he is a "noted hunting writer". Does that imply I said he was speaking for all hunting writers too? You need to slow down and think before hitting that submit button. Your habit of twisting people's posts to fit your narrative doesn't help your cred.

From: Stix
23-Jan-19
Jaquomo, You made a connection with BHA:

From Colorado forum: "I posted the letter on the main forums. Everyone needs to see this, especially BHA folks. "

From this forum: "He was the founder of the Colorado BHA chapter, which I believe was the first state chapter.

Say, isn't BHA (sic) a self-serving special interest group? Last time I checked.....

You never said he spoke for the BHA, but you made that connection circumstantially. As did most other folks here on both forums. I am not faulting you though though. When a recognized leader or former leader of a group makes comments, especially in a public forum, the public will form an opinion that the speaker holds ideas common to the group he represents (or in his case, formerly represents). Free speech is guaranteed by the constitution, and so are the repercussions.These comments lies squarely in the lap of David Petersen.

Bottom line is this, when you are in the public light, what you say can drag more people in the mud with you.

From: Trial153
23-Jan-19
Lou you're the master of taking cheap shots and then backing way from them. Grow a set at least and own up things instead of back peddling on your E bike all the time. Your opening line didn't stop with his biography. You made sure you ended with an inference that this was one special interest group going after another. When in fact this letter was just one individuals opinion and nothing more. Happy back peddling Lou. " David Petersen, noted hunting writer and a founder of BHA, published the letter below in yesterday's Denver Post. Apparently the Colorado Bowhunter Association is an evil, self-serving "special interest" but BHA is not?"

From: Jaquomo
23-Jan-19
Stix, you're right, and thanks for the polite, well-reasoned post. There are many BHA members who think Petersen is God. If they are bowhunters, I wanted to make sure they understood that their idol, a respected writer and conservation advocate, was throwing the voice of Colorado bowhunters under the bus in front of 250,000 nonhunters who had likely never heard of the CBA before. But he did not mention that he is a quasi-leader, icon, really, of his own self-serving special interest group also trying to influence public policy. That's intellectual dishonesty.

From: Jaquomo
23-Jan-19
Trial, I own every post I make. Again, you're twisting what I wrote into an inference I did not make. The inference from my OP is that he's a flaming hypocrite because his life is about self serving special interest groups. Every single one he is involved with falls in that category. I stand by that and would tell him that to his face if I ever have the opportunity.

From: cnelk
23-Jan-19
Definitely some BHA fanboys here

From: Stix
23-Jan-19
Not a fanboy here. A lifemember though. I believe in their mission. And I do stick by the admonishment of the letter writer. But no need to bring down BHA because of it. That would be just like bringing down the CBA as the letter writer did because CBA represents an organization who supports progess for bowhunters to the CPW commission.

As was said in other posts, at this point we need to stick together. It's clear CPW has an agenda to roll back opportunity for bowhunting. And if allowed to continue, it may not stop with bowhunting. We need to be prepared to write to the governor like was done in the early 2000's when they tried to implement a 21 day season even though the sportmen's surveys overwhelmingly showed support for status quo.

That would be alot more helpful than pointing fingers.

From: COHOYTHUNTER
23-Jan-19
Stix. I do agree with you on that. All hunters and all hunter organizations need to unite for the same cause. This will not stop with bow hunting. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. We all need to put the differences aside or the heritage of hunting in Colorado will be lost.

From: cnelk
23-Jan-19
Controversy sells. Post something short on facts, with a lot of speculation, with a certain tone, and BINGO! You are trending!

Congratulations, we are now proving to the media that this tactic works and that by that we want more of it.

From: Ollie
23-Jan-19
I'm a traditional bowhunter. David Petersen does not speak for me. I disagree with much of what he writes about and have sent several letters in the past to Traditional Bowhunter magazine expressing my disagreements with many of his positions. I don't think it necessary that when we express a personal opinion that we must attach a disclaimer that our opinion does not necessarily reflect the opinion of every organization that we are a member of.

From: DaleHajas
23-Jan-19
BHA- the AARP of ALL hunters lol Since the early connections to Sierra Club.... Its always the same. If they walk like a duck

From: Dirk Diggler
23-Jan-19
He's not simply a member ollie, he was the chapter founder, president, and face of the franchise.

From: Grasshopper
23-Jan-19

Grasshopper's Link
Here is the link to our written supposed self serving CBA testimony, supposedly not focused on the wildlife resource or habitat. Let me know if you find it offensive.

From: Bob McArthur
23-Jan-19
The Ant-Hunting BHA strikes again.

From: Surfbow
23-Jan-19
I'm also a member of BHA, and I have to admit I'd never heard of David Petersen before his article in the post. He certainly doesn't represent my position or that of anybody else I know who is a BHA member. I'm sure there are people in every organization whose views do not represent the organization as a whole. That's like saying every democrat is the same as Nancy Pelosi, and every republican is the same as Donald Trump. Saying things like this: "Nobody felt he represented the BHA. Only that this is possibly the mindset of the CO chapter members" shows shallow, unproductive thinking, seeing as Mr. Petersen is not currently a Colorado BHA board member or chapter leader anywhere in the state...

From: Dirk Diggler
23-Jan-19
SMH

From: Buglmin
23-Jan-19
What gets me is, instead of talking on the subject of Mr. Peterson, we seem it fit to attack Lou, send him nasty pm's, and thrash him for mentioning the BHA. Seems our priorities are elsewhere except the issue at hand.

Lou, thank you for posting this and bringing it to our attention. It sucks he chose to do that, to throw the CBA and bowhunters under the bus. Sad he chose to send the letter into a major newspaper. If you wouldn't of let us know about this, it probably would of gone without notice. Glad the CBA got involved. Will it help, probably not.

From: JL
23-Jan-19

JL's Link
I don't know the guy or have a dog in this hunt. I did a little looking around to see what I can glean about him out of curiosity. If you watch his vid clip in the link and read the comments about his books, he seems to be a Dick Proenneke kind of guy. I would not be surprised if he early on wanted to model his life and views after Mr. Proenneke's. He sounds like he was disillusioned with life after the VN War (he was a USMC Helo Pilot) and was looking for it's true meaning. He fancies himself as naturalist and I surmise a purist.

The purist element may be what ruffles the feathers of many. I guess he has his vision of what life's purities are and he writes and works to promote (push?) those views. The below is a description from one of his books WRT to his view of hunters and hunting:

""Description:

In Heartsblood, nationally acclaimed nature writer and veteran outdoorsman David Petersen takes a clear-eyed look at humans and hunting, and reaches conclusions sure to challenge everyone’s preconceptions. He draws clear distinctions between true hunting and contemporary hunter behavior, praising what’s right about the former and damning what’s wrong with the latter. Along with his extensive personal experience, Petersen draws on philosophy, evolutionary science, biology, and empirical studies to create an engaging and literate work that offers a unique look at hunting, hunters, anti-hunting, and, in the words of the author, "life’s basic truths.""

WRT to the BHA....I never heard of them until this thread. Here is what someone(s) posted on Wiki as thier issues or goals:

"Issues[edit]

Backcountry Hunters & Anglers main issues are:[2]

Preventing excessive off-road vehicle traffic on wild land Educating the public on hunting and fishing Preserving natural forests and public lands from development[2]

The group supports federal ownership of federal public lands and is opposed to legislation that would transfer ownership of these lands to states or private interests.[7] Executive Director Land Tawney has stated, "We see states trying to take over national forests and BLM areas as a threat to public lands that could lead to privatization and loss of habitat and access."[5]

The organization supports legislation to ban the use of drones while hunting, calling the technique unethical.[8][9]

The group hosts an annual "Rendezvous" event where members can come together in support of the BHA mission and objectives.[5] "

Someone above mentioned the BHA is connected to or partnering with the Sierra Club. That caught my eye as I'm not a Sierra Club fan at all. I did some looking around on the BHA internals and found the below. I guess it's up the BHA members here to decide if the BHA offers full disclosure and represents their views accordingly.

(You may also want to read about the BHA's leadership...according to this activist-watch website - https://www.activistfacts.com/person/land-tawney/)

https://www.activistfacts.com/organizations/backcountry-hunters-and-anglers/

""Backcountry Hunters and Anglers

One of the latest fronts in Big Green’s spider web

At a Glance

Environmentalist activism is the name of the game at BHA, and hunters and anglers are just the camouflage. BHA has received hundreds of thousands of dollars from environmentalist groups, and BHA executive director Land Tawney has a history of liberal election activism.

Background

Backcountry Hunters and Anglers (BHA) represents itself as good-ole-boy outdoorsmen who simply want to hunt and fish and be left alone. But don’t be fooled. As evidenced by both its sources of funding and current leadership, BHA is nothing more than a big green activist organization pushing a radical environmentalist agenda.

Funding

When looking at BHA’s funding sources, it’s easy to forget they have anything to do with hunting and fishing at all. All of its primary donors have extensive ties to environmental activist organizations.

The largest donor is the Western Conservation Foundation, which gave $278,423 to BHA in 2011 and 2012 alone. WCF has given handsomely over the years to notorious environmentalists and animal rights activists, including the Natural Resources Defense Council, the Audubon Society, Earthjustice (the self-proclaimed “law firm of the environment”), and Climate Solutions, a major proponent of “global warming.” It has also contributed large sums to the Tides Center, funder of all things leftist. It’s hard to imagine Western Conservation Foundation would donate over a quarter of a million dollars to Backcountry Hunters and Anglers if it wasn’t an organization that shared those same ideological beliefs.

The next largest donor to BHA is the Wilburforce Foundation. From 2009 to 2013, Wilburforce gave a total of $110,000 to BHA for a variety of purposes. As with the Western Conservation Foundation, Wilburforce gives heavily to other notorious environmentalists, including the Environmental Law Institute, the Sierra Foundation, and the Union of Concerned Scientists. Wilburforce’s executive director, Tim Greyhavens, previously worked for the Humane Society of the United States, a vegan activist organization with a PETA-like agenda. BHA also received a $69,000 donation in 2012 from Pew Charitable Trusts, which is famous for its ideological tilt. Other donors include the New Venture Fund ($30,000 total), Conservation Lands Foundation ($26,000 total), Lazar Foundation ($25,000 total), and The Brainerd Foundation ($8,000 total), whose mission is “to safeguard the environment and build broad citizen support for environmental protection.” As with WCF and Wilburforce, each of these organizations have deep connections with the environmental movement, which raises suspicions as to what BHA’s motivations truly are.

BHA Leadership

Not only do BHA’s primary donors have extensive ties to the environmentalist movement, but its leadership does as well. A number of top executives and board members currently work or previously worked for notorious environmental activists.

Most prominent is BHA executive director Land Tawney, who ran the liberal political action committee (PAC) calling itself the “Montana Hunters and Anglers Leadership Fund” (MHA). In 2012, this pop-up PAC spent $1.1 million against Republican U.S. Senate candidate Danny Rehberg, who was challenging Democratic U.S. Sen. Jon Tester. The liberal MHA also spent $500,000 in support of the libertarian candidate as a strategy of drawing votes away from the Republican. MHA received several hundred thousand dollars from the League of Conservation Voters, a liberal environmentalist group. Tawney is also a member of the Montana Sportsmen for Obama Committee and previously served as the National Grassroots Coordinator for the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership, which, like BHA, is an environmentalist front that poses as a hunter and fisher group.

Taken together, BHA’s funding sources and leadership make clear that the interests of hunters and anglers are the least of their concerns. Environmentalist activism is the name of the game at BHA, and hunters and anglers are just the facade.""

23-Jan-19
The above is just the Green Decoys hit piece that has been been thoroughly defunct. It was funded by a lobbyist for extraction business groups. The money for this hit piece came from non-hunters. This is akin to HRC funding the Steele dossier that the FBI used to wire tap Trump and his associates.

From: JL
23-Jan-19
Is this Green Decoy's info deemed inaccurate and if so by who? They posted BHA funding numbers which I didn't post. I try not to post bad info. Along with BHA....here are the other alleged left-leaning environmentalist groups posing as sportsman's groups IAW with this Green Decoys site.

https://www.greendecoys.com/

23-Jan-19
Also, Heartsblood is a good book, unless you're a roadhunting, street sign shooting, Amstel Lite beer can littering, high fence hunting type.

He does hold accountable hunters for their actions as everyone of us are on public trial every day and for our very future. Some people won't like that, particularly those that confirm our worst stereotypes to non-hunters who are also the first to cry "big-tent," and "who cares what the lefties think," as they vote away our hunting rights.

I don't agree with him entirely, especially his anti-ranching stance and trad-snobbery.

Lastly, I'm fairly certain I read his book based off the personal recommendation from the OP, another man I hold in high regard but don't agree with 100%.

From: Glunt@work
23-Jan-19
The Green Decoys piece is definitely a hit piece but I haven't seen where the funding ties and political ties of BHA leadership they report were inaccurate. Also, if who funds the Green Decoys piece matters, then who funds BHA may matter as well.

I side with BHA on some issues.

From: Dirk Diggler
23-Jan-19
Hey JL, you'd think if somebody slandered BHA as badly as that "hit piece" did, BHA would be suing the crap out of em for libel. Makes you wonder why they aren't don't it?

23-Jan-19
JL, there is no independent watch-dog that is sorting out the spit-ball throwing between conservation groups and Big-Extraction. The same investigative journalism that led you to your quote will find the other side of the story.

Your quote is all about following the money. I'd encourage you to follow it the other direction. The interest behind the dollar always has a motive.

From: Dirk Diggler
23-Jan-19
Hey idyll, what do you think of Petersens efforts to eliminate spring bear hunting, bear baiting, and hunting bear with hounds?

From: JL
23-Jan-19
Ike, before I posted above I did look at what the GD site said about a couple of those other organizations like Trout Unlimited. It did seem there is a big business interest/agenda in their pointing out these sportsman's groups as enviro/left-leaning fronts opposed to the GD agenda. That said....as Dirk noted above...is the info about these groups left-leaning leadership affiliations incorrect? For example....were (was) the BHA's leadership past supporters for Prez Obama via the Montana Hunters and Anglers Leadership Fund ? GD makes that claim...I don't know??

From: Jaquomo
23-Jan-19
Ike, I recommended "A Hunter's Heart", which is a collection of essays Perersen put together from other writers, many of them distinguished in different genres.

"Sportsmen for Obama"? Well... Ok then.....

23-Jan-19
Dirk,

If he made them, (I'm not sure if he did), I disagree with those efforts. He's definitely left of you and I and I knew that from reading his book.

I do agree with him though, on his stance on conserving wild places and holding each other (fellow hunters) read: slob hunters, accountable for our actions. And I'm fundamentally opposed to HF and road hunting, which I view as a lazy whoring of our great heritage, which is his main thrust.

23-Jan-19
After reading that last post from Surfbow, all my problems seem to make sense now. It appears my reasoning ability is on the short end of the pond. James has been telling me that for about 5 years. Now there's two people doing so. You fellas might be on to something. :^)

Serious;y, the only thing I can say is to try and get past the discomfort my statement caused you by being reasonable. My response wasn't the least bit shallow. I didn't bash the BHA or any of its members. Only sated the issue at hand. You have no problems questioning my actions so, you shouldn't be surprised when the same was demonstrated. Especially when such a radical, high profile person openly associates with your club. To be transparent regarding my earlier response, the last time I checked, a bowhunter wrote the letter the OP quoted and, not all BHA members are likely bow hunters. Due to these circumstances, it would seem to me that my shallow way of reasoning things seems more then legitimate.

I did everything I could to keep from bashing the whole organization while stating the obvious. Because as simple minded as I am, I can read and correlate what things are implied by people. And we know Ole Dave does that with his own admission of "collaborating efforts to found the BHA" and, "To start the CO chapter of the BHA".

Back to the real topic, great response from the CBA.

23-Jan-19
You're probably right Lou and I found Heartsblood from there. Nonetheless, there's some stuff in "A Hunter's Heart" that is farther left than anything in Heartsblood.

EDIT: I'd like to reword "farther left" to "critical of slob hunters, road hunters, Big Extraction," and the like. I'd like to think that conservation of not only our animals, but wild places and 'real' hunting (not driving around on an ATV/pickup truck looking for something to shoot), has nothing to do with a liberal mindset. It's a conservative mind set because it's trying to conserve what is valuable from the past, which is the true heart and soul of conservatism.

From: Dirk Diggler
23-Jan-19

Dirk Diggler's Link
In his own words idyll. It's a ways down the question list, but they're his words. And I completely agree with your second paragraph.

From: Dirk Diggler
23-Jan-19

Dirk Diggler's embedded Photo
In his words.
Dirk Diggler's embedded Photo
In his words.

23-Jan-19
He's an animist. That's his religion. I don't agree with him. But I wouldn't agree with the religious views 100% of anyone on this thread, I'm sure.

If it's ok to shoot a deer in autumn, it's ok to shoot a bear in spring.

He's a trad-snob.

It doesn't make everything he says wrong and it doesn't make BHA an anti-hunting group just because he founded a state chapter. I'm a local chapter leader of the My Wiener for Women Battalion (MWWB). It doesn't mean I speak for men and it doesn't mean that any man who associates with me agrees with 100% of what I believe in.

Everyone on this thread, even men I admire and would share a camp-fire with, I'm sure I would not agree with 100% on all their beliefs, just as I would not agree with everyone at an SCI or Ovis gathering, despite the fact that I have friends who belong to one or both organizations.

From: JL
23-Jan-19
I think the conflict would be Mr. Petersen's alleged opposition to the things listed above (bear baiting, hounds, etc). That gets back to my perception of him as "purist". A person's view is just that...his/her's view....and that's ok. Where the feathers get ruffled for hunters is when the person tries to force their view or definition of something on other hunters. IMO agenda-driven hunting purists can be just as dangerous for hunting as an anti-hunter. That is not a direct swipe at Mr. Petersen but a broader perspective of the view if you don't hunt like me, you're not a true hunter or you're a slob hunter. Folks get stuck in their bubbles and can't see or won't look outside of their bubbles.

23-Jan-19
I agree with you JL, although I think most people who truly love hunting know what a "slob hunter" is.

Peterson is an animist trad-snob. These sorts have good hearts and are partially right. They're just overly self-righteous. He righteously holds hunters feet to the fire. But he's dead-wrong attacking the CBA as I pointed out in my first post on this thread.

24-Jan-19
Arguing against hound hunting bears, as a purist, is absurd. It’s a total anachronism.

Petersen is a complete fallacy of his own reckoning.

From: Surfbow
24-Jan-19
"Especially when such a radical, high profile person openly associates with your club."

WV, are you a member of any clubs? By your reasoning, you ought to rethink membership in any group who has a member as 'radical' as Petersen, including your political party, church, archery club, Bowsite, etc. Again, just because the guy started the chapter at some point in the past does not mean he speaks for all of us here currently. Broad-brush thinking accomplishes nothing. You've heard that old quote about what the word 'assume' means, right? Lou was absolutely right (as he usually is) to post his letter and bring it to everyone's attention-hunters need to keep abreast of what other hunters are saying and doing, regardless of what organization they are affiliated with (or not) when they say it.

From: Bowfreak
24-Jan-19
I don't care about his affiliations or his writing or even who he votes for, but any person claiming to be a hunter and then pounding his chest over the fact that he was responsible for shutting down a biologically sound hunting season is a a tool in my book.

From: Beav
24-Jan-19
Bowfreak nailed it! I believe the majority here can agree with his statement!

From: Ambush
24-Jan-19
" I'm a local chapter leader of the My Wiener for Women Battalion (MWWB)."

Sorry Idyll, but you're out of the club. Your wiener is known to the State of California to cause cankers and/or mirth effects.

From: DanBow
24-Jan-19
I wonder if Mr Peterson considers the Native Americans in Wisconsin slob hunters for being allowed to use spotlights to shoot deer at night? Not torches! Spotlights

24-Jan-19
Surfbow, since the point you just made is exactly what I’ve said all along, why don’t you just say what the real problem is instead of trying to make what I’ve said, aproblem. I thought I made it clear that I wasn’t casting light on any individual. Have I said anything to imply differently? I hope not because that wasn’t my attempt.

Am I missing something obvious here? Are we not saying the exact same thing?

From: elvspec
24-Jan-19
Reading the Sun article I have to wonder if Peterson at some point went back and read his own dribble and thought "wow, sounds like I'm talking myself right out of my own hunting rights".

From: Dirk Diggler
24-Jan-19
Elvspec the irony, that I have no doubt is lost on him, is all those bears he helped create the last 25yrs are eating his elk calves!

From: TD
24-Jan-19
Great.... and reasoned.... reply by the CBA. Well done.

WRT BHA...... like it or not....this tool (very accurate assessment by Bowfreak) is associated with it.... very deeply so. Just ask him. It's all over his bio. If you want to defend the org..... then a public disassociation from him would be in order. Or own it. It's going to be linked one way or the other. That some might feel that's not "fair" ..... it is what it is.... lots of stuff in life not "fair". With tools like this it's a package deal....

IF.... in fact BHA is a pro-hunter org and not just morphed into some quasi-Sierra Club..... then somebody ought to tell them to get their nuts off the top wire and make some kind of statement on the matter. Otherwise like it or not they are going to be painted as being in same corner as the tool who was a big part of their founding.... who intentionally and very publicly threw one of the best state pro-hunting orgs under the bus to promote SOMEBODIES agenda. If BHA does not agree with him, then man up and either disassociate or make some kind of statement. But get the hell off the fence. Let it be known where you stand. Or rename the org to Backcountry Hikers and Fashionable Fishermen.

From: Ambush
24-Jan-19
I've been watching with interest the start up of BHA here in BC and also the Alberta chapter. There is a debate going on, on the main BC hunting forum. I think watching the players, promoters and members can teach us much about the org. Regardless of the information offered up.

So far, here BHA seems to appeal very much to the under forty, new to hunting group. The ones inspired by Rinella and such that have had what I would refer to as a new spiritual/natural awakening. Almost the new deep state yoga. The "Wild" is almost a creature to them, an admirable, life giving creature that nurtures and needs nurturing. It's love must be returned.

As most older hunters have been nearly life long hunters, we don't actually realize that we share some of this thought, but it's so ingrained that we have never had to articulate it. We love wild places, but the difference is we don't disassociate the Wild from reality. It's natural, but it is not mystic.

Also I believe many of the young BHA are more apt to kill a deer and eat it, in almost a ritualistic way, celebrating their new, raw connection to mother earth. They are much less apt to go into the mountains and hunt sheep or goats and surely not predators. So they see "protecting" these "super wild" places as an act of giving back. Hike, sure, maybe even catch a fish, but that's it. And don't forget that many of these younger BHA members are just that, young! They can still walk for miles and miles with a thirty pound pack, because they know they are not going to be making multiple trips out with heavy loads of meat. So vehicular restricted access is a plus to them.

I believe the mindset of the average new BHA member is more to preservation than conservation. And they have a right to follow their hearts. But I also believe they are being used and misled by a bigger more intentional body. I also believe that many will have moved on from their "know where your food comes from" epiphany in several years and will be on to the next great life-giving movement.

But the aftermath will remain.

24-Jan-19
Ambush, that is some thought provoking insight right there. I'm under 40 (barely), am deeply concerned about sound wildlife management and conservation, and am barely a hunter (quit hunting during college and have still only partially picked it back up). By all rights I should be a BHA supporter 100%, and yet I continually find something vaguely disquieting about the organization. I want to like them, honestly, but there is something indefinably off-putting about them that I cannot quite grasp or shake off.

Though I think you might have actually nailed it. I don't worship Gaia, do not have a mystical connection to "Mother Earth" or nature, and I suspect many of the BHA crowd may indeed outgrow their newfound hunting hobby and simply end up left-leaning (with respect to guns) preservationists with no real understanding of hunting or its role in conservation.

Good chance I am wrong (I often am, about a host of things). Indeed, I hope so.

Good discussion all around though.

24-Jan-19
If there's one thing that this thread is not short on, it's generalizations, presumptions, and stereotyping.

From: Ambush
24-Jan-19
Idyll, your kind are all the same :-)

And I’m very specifically talking about the BHA movement in BC.

From: DaleHajas
24-Jan-19
Yes Well done CBA!

I was listening to a Rinella podcast the other night at work....:) he was interviewing some guy about the Prarie Area Rebuilding program in Az. Im in Pa so it didnt have much connection to me. Right up until the guy who has a solid hunting background, states hes partnering with WWF -World Wildlife Fund and they are basically the driving force in trying to "Rewild" the praries, to replace cattle with Bison. I about drove my little Armadillo Sweeper off the road! Why do the "New wave" hunter/bios think that WWF is happy and will never fight to end hunting?

Did not BHA seek to lower non res elk tags in Co and Utah? Fight for the Roadless initiative in Wa? Now one of the originators is trashing a STATE hunting org? But yet the National group doesnt mutter a word..... This is their MO. Remember recently when a western state was trying to delist the wolf and offer a hunting season? BHA didnt make a statement at all until 5 minutes after that state did remove the protective status.

Absolutely fantastic posts above, TD, Ambush and Ben Yahuda- Bravo!

24-Jan-19
You can throw the American Prairie Reserve(APR) into this discussion. Very sly organizations, with longer term plans which will not bode well for today's hunters and values. But wait, many on here have stated "hunters need to evolve",...... here is your chance.

From: Nick Muche
24-Jan-19
Has the CBA prepared and posted a response?

From: DarrinG
24-Jan-19
>>>"I don't worship Gaia, do not have a mystical connection to "Mother Earth" or nature, and I suspect many of the BHA crowd may indeed outgrow their newfound hunting hobby and simply end up left-leaning (with respect to guns) preservationists with no real understanding of hunting or its role in conservation. "<<<

My feelings also. Every time I step back and try to give BHA an honest consideration of support I find more things that raise my eyebrows, and step back away. The more I learn the father I step away. All the associations with other traditional anti-gun, anti-hunting, anti-everything snowflakes. I think I'll pass.

24-Jan-19
APR, from everything I've read, is not only keeping ranches from being sliced up into 40 acre parcels and sold to urbanites, but also runs cattle on their lands, and allows hunting on their lands.

Forgive me for liking all three of those things...

24-Jan-19
Cattle and hunting are temporary my friend, read their long term commitments, and their associated partners. Can hunters really be that gullible? It appears so.

24-Jan-19
"Has the CBA prepared and posted a response?"

Sure did Nick. Click the link in Grasshopper's post.

From: Dirk Diggler
24-Jan-19
Ambush you nailed it! How's that bighorn mess goin?

From: DaleHajas
24-Jan-19
......But the cattle are to be removed once the bison take hold, as I understood the gentleman.

But when there is something effecting hunters in a controversial way, and a statement is made negatively towards traditional hunting methods, theres ALWAYS a thread that connects BHA.

A recent post on the Pa Game Commision Facebook page, which is a really great tool for the PGC to reach folks everyday, had a review of the 2018 Pa Bear season. Comments follow of course and one lady in particular trashed the PGC for permitting bears being killed by hounds and over baitpiles. She recognized herself as a large carnivore specialist biologist or something of the sort..... I never heard of that tag myself lol she was so intelligent she didnt know that in Pa its unlawful to use dogs or baitpiles. Lol So I go to her facebook page only to see she is a pro-wolf rewilding fan. Its her right btw. But right there on her page she proudly displays her promos of the BHA. BHA didnt make those criticisms of PGC, she did, so BHA remains not connected, butbfor that little thread, Similar to this Petersen situation? So I see a trend here.

24-Jan-19
Sweet! I love hunting bison way more than I love hunting cattle...

From: Trial153
24-Jan-19
Dale you stalked someone that you didnt know on Facebook and your seen a BHA promo? seriously, you might not want to be broadcasting that. It's kind of creepy. Just saying.

From: DaleHajas
24-Jan-19
Not really. I would have had respect for her opinion if she was a Pa resident. Therefore I didnt bother to engage her in conversation.... But nice try.:)

BTW Ole Land Tawney hisself was sposed to engage me on the BHA page but of course "poof" he never showed and my access to the posts through some mutual friends was gone lol

BTW- the lady leveling criticsms against the PGC was not a Pa resident.

If any ofvthe western state hunting orgs want a reduction in non-resident elk tags thats their business not mine. BUT heres a national org lobbying for Pa hunting members and their $$$ also support that reduction, when many of those NR's are from Pa!

From: Trial153
24-Jan-19
Sorry face book stalking is creepy.

From: cnelk
24-Jan-19
"Sorry face book stalking is creepy"

Many employers do just that to look up people that have applied for a job.

From: Trial153
24-Jan-19
Way different that stalking some random person that you disagreed with at a public meeting or say on an internet forum. Did you check my Facebook profile cnelk?

From: cnelk
24-Jan-19
"Did you check my Facebook profile cnelk?"

Im not hiring

From: Trial153
24-Jan-19
"Im not hiring" Agreed and since I didnt put in an application, you passed the creepy test.

From: JL
24-Jan-19

JL's Link
A semi-related post. The attached link is a long read but it is interesting and provides alot of info about the animal rights extremists and eco-terrorists. The Sierra Club is discussed by a member of one of the extremists groups and how they provide top-cover for the SC. These days you need to know who you're associating with when you join a group.

From: LUNG$HOT
25-Jan-19
Thanks for posting the link Grasshopper, as usual a very well written and thought out response from the CBA. Seems like a sound plan for that DAU.

From: Beendare
28-Jan-19
Some of you espousing your undying love for BHA might want to direct it at the organization itself to right the ship.

Personally, I'm siding with CBH and SCI.....there is no waffling there.

From: StormFiber
28-Jan-19

StormFiber's Link
Always standing on his soap box pointing his finger at everyone telling them they were not as ethical as he. He writes about there being too many people buying up prime hunting lands and building houses on wild lands yet he did the same himself...purchasing a house at the end of a road butting up to national forest lands.

28-Jan-19
Didn't read all these but maybe he is positioning himself to be Polis's new "Boytoy" and get a golden seat of the Knights of the round table at CPW....

From: elkster
28-Jan-19
ben yehuda,

Why assume these new members will move on completely from all hunting into the next phase of life? They have kids they will hunt with, have memories created and traditions begun.

That is a very broad assumption (leap) about thousands of members. I'm a member, but joined years ago after my lifestyle has been established. I don't worship Gaia (don't use it) . Its far better to have them try hunting, and some move on, than not even try at all.

As far as Land Tawney, yeah, my initial reaction to reading about his support of Obama was the same as most of the posters on this thread. But then consider this - one of my very best friends with whom I elk and deer hunt voted for Obama but we still hunt together. Has it come to this? That we are suspect (paranoid even) of hunters who vote democrat? If someone joins BHA because they want to ensure access to wildlife refuges to hunt small game in the east, how have they become the problem? Dave Peterson alone is responsible for his column.

From: Wapitidung
28-Jan-19
Good one AdventureWriter

29-Jan-19
After reading this thread all I can say is WOW! Good thing none of you ever met or listened to Jay Massey in the 80s. David Peterson is who he is, and is certainly not for everyone. I would say that it would be worthwhile that a person at least consider how and why he has come to his opinions. Had an elk honeyhole in CO from 94 until 2014, when two father son pairs moved into the valley from another state, and bought a few polaris razors, found it, and headed to the highest peak every day to park before moving downhill with the thermals going down into their ladder stands, then in evenings waited until the thermals switched and again drove to the high grazing areas with thermals moving down into the bedding areas. Did the legwork over a couple of years and found another promising area. Went there in mid season and there were more vehicles and people than a walmart parking lot before snowmagendon. Instead of bashing one person, maybe we should all be talking about the disappearance of quality archery elk hunting in Colorado. David Peterson was a Marine helo pilot in Vietnam, and like many veterans has some form of PTSD. No excuse or pity wanted, but believe me, vets usually have a low tolerance for BS. Sitting on top of the mountain in the pre dawn being serenaded by bugling bulls, then hearing the buzzzing whine come up the mountain for 20 minutes and literally drive right into the elk every day for a week, you can imagine the thoughts that come to mind. I have no clue about CBA or dog in this fight between CBA, BHA or David Peterson. I would hope we can at least have an understanding of "why" behind the differing opinions. Especially other bowhunters. I have been around long enough to see compounds take over, and many experessing concerns over the direction things were going. Then to watch as the introduction of crossbows into archery seasons, and listen to the compound bowhunters express the same concerns the pre-compound archers expressed in the mid 70s. I will tell you archery seasons changed drastically with the introduction of compounds, and again, when with the introduction of crossbows, and not to the better, for anybody. Pushing for limitless expansion of opportunity is not always a good thing when dealing with a finite resource. Especially with yukon wolves working their way into Colorado. Things could/WILL get allot worse, FAST! David Peterson is expressing these concerns from a different direction. I see David as somewhat of a canary in a coal mine. Shooting the canary when it starts going off is often not a wise decision.

From: TD
29-Jan-19
Is the Leatherwall down????

From: Jaquomo
29-Jan-19
Who is pushing for "limitless expansion of opportunity"? CBA is trying to protect the opportunities we have now, which are under assault from multiple directions. It is Petersen who tried to push for expanded opportunity for elitist trad hunters, which would, by necessity, come at the expense of opportunity for those who hunt with modern bows.

Everything in his letter was good until he called put the CBA as a self serving special interest to a quarter of a million non-hunting voters without providing specifics. That's where he crossed the line. He's no "canary". Rather, he's just an obnoxious, squawking parrot.

From: COHOYTHUNTER
29-Jan-19
Has the CBA drafted a response yet?

From: Dirk Diggler
29-Jan-19
The "canary in the coal mine" campaigned hard to close spring bear hunting, bear baiting, and hunting bears with hounds. Our bear population is now double CP&W's population objective and they're eating a lot of elk calves. Now the "canary in the coal mine" is complaining about lack of elk and blaming CP&W and too many hunters for the mess he helped create because he didnt believe those hunting methods were ethical. He's not the "canary in the coal mine" he's more like the noxious gas in the coal mine.

From: TD
29-Jan-19

TD's Link
TTT..... the CBA's letter, from Grasshopper's post/link from above. Well done.

From: elkster
29-Jan-19
Jaquomo, its good that you posted this topic because I would not have known about Petersons position on CBA otherwise. He speaks for himself, not BHA.

Dirk, again, what is "enlightening" on book of faces with regard to BHA?

From: DaleHajas
31-Jan-19
Isnt it wierd that the biggest critic and complainer on the Pa Game Commision Black Bear Hunting season final statistics site I mentioned above, is also a BHA member??.....and pro wolf advocate? Geeze imagine that......

31-Jan-19
Dale if you need wolves, the Great Lakes can send all you want,,,,, as for the BHA, found out the same thing, and ask how many trappers belong?

31-Jan-19
I recently joined the BHA, and all of the meetings are held at micro-brew places. I hate the IPA/over hoppy hobby beer. Like throwing 3# of pepper on your steak. I will go when I can get a miller lite. Probably need to go anyway to bring some experience and common sense. Lots of young/urban/upwardly mobile types, same age as my kids. Well, at least they are hunting. I disagree strongly with many of David Peterson's positions (he is nuts on Black Bears ,their populations are WAYYYYY over carrying capacity in every state I hunt, including one (VA) that has a 90 day hound bear season!). He is correct about the disappearance of quality archery elk hunting in CO. Maybe the Wolves in WY,ID,MT have pushed hunters into not-yet wolf areas, thus the reason for the rock concert level of crowds in September elk country. I would hope all hunting organizations would work to improve the hunting experience. I have about given up on CO. Simply a waste of very limited hunting vacation right now.

From: Dirk Diggler
01-Feb-19

Dirk Diggler's Link
Elkster here's the latest. But you gotta be quick, as soon as their feathers start to show threads get deleted. This is a milder one. The Bob Reed thread.

From: GLB
02-Feb-19
"TOO MANY BOW HUNTERS OUT THERE" is normally something that a hunter would say that only uses a rifle and is struggling with lack of success (numbers of game or size of trophy). Its human nature to lash out at something that is an easy target and we know little about.

02-Feb-19
To each his own. But, from what I have seen, which isn't much of the inside stuff, the last thing you need is a fellow bowhunter, sabotaging other bowhunters. Because he doesn't like sharing bow season with other bowhunters. With the increase over the years until recently, of Colorado either sex rifle permits, its an absolute brain fart moment to suggest the problem is bowhunting related.

There is now rifles hunting elk in bow season, muzzle loaders in bow season, and an increase of all sorts of other recreational people in bow season, country wide. Especially in CO. And this butt head takes a personal shot and we are supposed to try and understand his logic. There is no logic to that. NONE.

Elk resources are completely capable of regenerating and sustaining as long as we don't have too many protected predators and too many rifles killing them before it can do so. That is simple logic. No special reasoning to understand that is required.

He did just as Lou and Dirk said. I have no ability to understand his reasoning as anything but self serving.

From: Surfbow
02-Feb-19
"Its human nature to lash out at something that is an easy target and we know little about."

If that wasn't human nature, internet forums would be terribly boring...

From: DaleHajas
02-Feb-19
Groundhunter- thanks but no big doggies wanted here... But sierra club lite will welcome them! Lol. With Pa having millions of acres of STATE OWNED public land, will one group of eco- hunters be in the lead to have our State Game Lands taken over by the feds?

A battle rages over sunday hunting in Pa. BHA just jumped on the SH wagon to see it pass. Thats good- but now they got their nose inside the tent. One of their members publicly trashed the United Bowhunters of Pa relentlessly over the new implementation of new deer management-AR's- several years ago, on cyber media... For a couple years. Do you see a pettern here? You can't blame BHA directly but its kinda weird their members feel obligated to trash orgs that dont think like them.

From: MuleyBum
02-Feb-19
DaleHajas, Unlike, say, members of other organizations who never trash BHA for not thinking like them. Perish the thought. Right?

From: Jaquomo
02-Feb-19
It's one thing to "trash" BHA on a hunting forum. Quite another to trash one of the leading, and most effective, state bowhunting organizations in front of 250,000 nonhunting voters.

Especially when we are right in the right in the middle of 5 year season structure discussions that could have a profound effect on bowhunting opportunity.

Thats where Mr. "You're a special interest but I'm not" crossed the line.

From: DaleHajas
02-Feb-19
Thanks Jaquomo. You managed to type what Ive been thinking for 10 or so years :) Who the hayl is this national group criticizing the at one time, most respected bowhunting orgs in the country in the UBP? Thats when I went to the old BHA website to find the Sierra club link. I couldnt believe it.

MB- have you criticized your fellow BHA members or just me? :) Perish the thought lol

Only 1 gentleman has manned up to state that Petersen doesnt speak for him- that being elkster. I have respect for that.

From: Trial153
02-Feb-19
PA implemented ARs in 2002. BHA was founded loosely in 2004. Nice to see BHA ahead of their time.

From: JakeBrake
02-Feb-19
Mr. Peterson roasted me on an online forum once (in a private message also) about my (traditional) bow setup and how I had no business being in a tree stand with that setup and how he was the almighty standard on elk and bow setups from the ground abs from the stand. Never met me, never asked about my setup (past the limited info I gave in my post (the setup being a 55lb now sending a 540 grn arrow nearly 200 FPS) I tried to reason with him and be polite and he continued with his high and mighty rant against me...I have and will never respect him after that. This only adds to my feelings on the guy

A long line of actions that speak to Mr. Peterson’s inflated view of himself and his arrogant attitude that he displays to whom ever and whenever he wishes when I benefits him or simply makes him feel validated

03-Feb-19
I just bought a mess of books on deer hunting, that I plan on reading at my cabin this month. One is a book by a Dave Petersen, maybe its the same guy, its about the hunters heart,,,,,,, do not know the guy

From: Jaquomo
03-Feb-19
Hunter's Heart is a good one because it's a collection of essays from great writers outside the hunting literature genre. Some very thought-provoking work in there from intelligent people who aren't in the "hook and bullet" world.

From: MuleyBum
03-Feb-19
DaleHajas, I have no problem with folks calling out Dave Petersen, or anyone else, when they take positions that are contrary to bowhunter interests that comply with sound conservation policies. In this instance I happen to side with Petersen's critics. But Petersen's association with BHA is beside the point. His views in this matter are his own. We have all heard or seen people say things that might not reflect well on an organization they are associated with. But most reasonable people usually manage to separate such remarks from the organization itself if they were not said in the context of an official statement. And that's true even when the organization happens to be one that people may disagree with.

From: DaleHajas
03-Feb-19
MB- agreed and I have no issues with that post. This crap happens all too often with this org without any response from them. If Done with intent its called "nudging".

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