Tylenol vs. Ibuprofen
General Topic
Contributors to this thread:
12yards 29-Jan-19
COHOYTHUNTER 29-Jan-19
Julius Koenig 29-Jan-19
orionsbrother 29-Jan-19
'Ike' (Phone) 29-Jan-19
DMTJAGER 29-Jan-19
Deertick 29-Jan-19
KSMike 29-Jan-19
Highlife 29-Jan-19
NEIAbowhunter 29-Jan-19
DMTJAGER 29-Jan-19
IdyllwildArcher 29-Jan-19
ohiohunter 29-Jan-19
cnelk 29-Jan-19
drycreek 29-Jan-19
4blade 29-Jan-19
Zbone 29-Jan-19
DoorKnob 29-Jan-19
ohiohunter 30-Jan-19
IdyllwildArcher 30-Jan-19
Franklin 30-Jan-19
DoorKnob 30-Jan-19
IdyllwildArcher 30-Jan-19
LBshooter 30-Jan-19
TD 30-Jan-19
Bou'bound 30-Jan-19
greenmountain 30-Jan-19
midwest 30-Jan-19
Linecutter 30-Jan-19
Buffalo1 30-Jan-19
bad karma 30-Jan-19
HUNT MAN 30-Jan-19
DaleT 30-Jan-19
ohiohunter 30-Jan-19
MPN 30-Jan-19
bigdog21 30-Jan-19
stick n string 30-Jan-19
KY EyeBow 30-Jan-19
Swampbuck 30-Jan-19
drycreek 30-Jan-19
kyrob 30-Jan-19
Franklin 30-Jan-19
Linecutter 30-Jan-19
stick n string 30-Jan-19
12yards 30-Jan-19
Aspen Ghost 30-Jan-19
Kodiak 30-Jan-19
Buffalo1 30-Jan-19
Lost Arra 30-Jan-19
Franklin 30-Jan-19
COHOYTHUNTER 30-Jan-19
IdyllwildArcher 30-Jan-19
Franklin 30-Jan-19
stick n string 30-Jan-19
IdyllwildArcher 30-Jan-19
midwest 30-Jan-19
N8tureBoy 30-Jan-19
Buffalo1 30-Jan-19
stick n string 30-Jan-19
Deertick 30-Jan-19
Vids 30-Jan-19
Linecutter 30-Jan-19
IdyllwildArcher 31-Jan-19
BULELK1 31-Jan-19
kyrob 31-Jan-19
Lost Arra 31-Jan-19
midwest 31-Jan-19
Deertick 31-Jan-19
12yards 31-Jan-19
ohiohunter 31-Jan-19
12yards 31-Jan-19
Franklin 31-Jan-19
Linecutter 31-Jan-19
Franklin 31-Jan-19
bad karma 31-Jan-19
Linecutter 31-Jan-19
DanaC 31-Jan-19
Franklin 01-Feb-19
Pat Lefemine 01-Feb-19
From: 12yards
29-Jan-19
Just wanted some input on this. I've had a terrible cold the last few days so I've been pounding cold medicine laced with Tylenol. This afternoon I went out to the shed and shot a few arrows and I was amazed at how pain free I was able to shoot! I have pretty bad arthritis in my bow shoulder and it is really hard for me to hold at full draw, or even get to full draw sometimes quite honestly. So my bows are a 50 pound Impulse 34 and a 60 pound Synergy turned down a turn and a half. I've taken Ibuprofen in the past and, while it helps, I still have pain. I honestly had very little pain after taking this cold medicine! Is a pain blocker better than an anti-inflammatory sometimes? I even turned the Synergy up to 60 and shot a few shots with no problem. I may be on to something here....I hope. Any similar experiences?

From: COHOYTHUNTER
29-Jan-19
Take them both. Tylenol for the pain and Ibuprofen for the inflammation.

29-Jan-19
There is some evidence that supports the two used in combination can be a very effective pain reliever.

29-Jan-19
Just don’t drink alcohol when taking acetaminophen.

29-Jan-19
That, or if your on certain meds already such as blood thinners, no Ibuprofen...

From: DMTJAGER
29-Jan-19
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't frequent use of IB very hard on you liver VS Tylenol?

From: Deertick
29-Jan-19
Can’t be specific here of course since I don’t know your specifics, but in general, pain meds have little impact on such soft tissue injuries, in my 22 year. The recommendation is usually something like: back off the weight/intensity to what you can do and still recover in 24-48 hours, and progress slowly back to normal. Barbellmedicine.com has some excellent physicians and PTs to ask about this and provide evidence-based answers. Most physicians and even PTs don’t also have trianijng experience, but they do and I rely on them for answers to this stuff. Avoid placebos of all kinds including meds and physical techniques, nutritional gurus, supplements that promise recovery. Most of the time the best thing is to google “regression to the mean.”

From: KSMike
29-Jan-19
Actually Ibuprofen is hard on the kidneys. Also bad for stomach, blood pressure and heart. Tylenol in high doses is toxic to the liver but much safer overall compared to ibuprofen if taken properly.

From: Highlife
29-Jan-19
Yes by doctor said for me no ibuprofen also lay off the tylenol

29-Jan-19
Tylenol is probably the safest pain reliever ever created for all ages. Other than excessive amounts or consumption of alcohol while taking Tylenol, you're pretty safe. Liver damage is the main concern there but I'm sure the alcohol didn't help that either. Ibuprofen is also generally pretty safe. Research has gone back and forth the last few years but newer research is linking NSAIDs (Ibuprofen, Aleve, and others) to increased risk of stroke and I thought something else primarily in men but I don't recall even though it was just published a few months ago. That being said, I always took Tylenol for headaches which I frequently get. I think I've sort of developed an immunity to it to some degree (could be all in my head too). The effectiveness seemed to go down. Now I take Ibuprofen and they usually go away pretty quickly. Maybe something similar in your case? Hard to say. Anyway, glad you were able to shoot and enjoy it pain free!

From: DMTJAGER
29-Jan-19
Good to know about the potential link between IB and strokes. I have issues with both shoulders and hips that only surgery can correct and take ALOT of IB but that will end and will give Tylenol a try instead.

29-Jan-19
It's true what's said above that you can take both. They're eliminated from the body differently and work differently.

Either, taken at high doses for long periods of time have risks with Ibuprofen having more short-term risks.

Pain meds have all had Tylenol co-doses lowered as it's been shown to be bad for your liver to take what we once thought were safe doses, every day, for years to decades.

Ibuprofen can cause ulcers in some people very quickly. Taken daily for decades, I've seen it fry a number of people's kidneys. It can also raise blood pressure and it thins the blood. Regular use of anti-inflammatories are correlated with cardiac risk.

IMO, the best medicine is no medicine, but if you need it, you need it. And most of the time, the risk is negligible. And most of the time, that risk is so negligible, that it's not worth the suffering.

From: ohiohunter
29-Jan-19
While I agree no medicine is possibly the best, I feel like my stubbornness has caused more damage. Inflamed joints can and will degrade them, a little ibprofin is a fair trade especially if your kidneys are not compromised. Knowledge is key and hind sight will always be 20/20

From: cnelk
29-Jan-19
Diclofenac is a good friend of mine for pain.

From: drycreek
29-Jan-19
So.......if I take one Aleve every morning just so my thumbs actually work and my shoulders are about half pain-free, then all I have to worry about is my kidneys, a stroke, or bleeding out. What a relief !

From: 4blade
29-Jan-19
cbd oil works for me and no side effects

From: Zbone
29-Jan-19
Highlife - I thought it was Tylenol was hard on your liver over Ibuprofen?

From: DoorKnob
29-Jan-19
I, personally, do not like any of the NSAIDs nor acetaminophen. When I donate blood they ask about my pain killer use and I respond " well last summer I did some aspirin because I broke my leg and that is all the doc would allow me" It was truth.

I use as little of any of that stuff as possible and No other pharms of any kind.

acetaminophen is a well known liver killer. Once you damage your liver kiss the rest of your life goodbye. just what I have learned over the years.

From: ohiohunter
30-Jan-19
Your liver is a very durable organ. If you over indulge in anything you will cause damage, within reason not likely.

Food for thought, you can kill yourself by drinking too much water. In other words the extreme mentality can go ahead and take a seat, no need to clutter another thread with crap.

30-Jan-19
ohio is correct

acetaminophen is given to pregnant women, breastfeeding women, and neonates - one of the few drugs that can claim that safety. It's only dangerous when taken in suicidal doses or in moderate doses for decades. Same as anything though - like alcohol and arsenic.

From: Franklin
30-Jan-19
Zbone you are correct as is Doorknob....acetaminophen is far more dangerous than IB. Personally none of them provide enough of a difference to make someone take them on a regular basis. For a headache maybe....but for anything else substantial, forget about it.

Aleve is the worst thing you can take....that crap will eat a hole in your gut.

From: DoorKnob
30-Jan-19
That is an odd response.

" From: ohiohunter 30-Jan-19

Your liver is a very durable organ. If you over indulge in anything you will cause damage, within reason not likely.

Food for thought, you can kill yourself by drinking too much water. In other words the extreme mentality can go ahead and take a seat, no need to clutter another thread with crap. "

30-Jan-19
The liver can be severely damaged and as long as it isn't to the point of scarring (cirrhosis), it will completely regenerate. You can take a large portion of the liver out and transplant it into someone else and your liver will grow back. It's the only organ with such regenerative ability.

"Zbone you are correct as is Doorknob....acetaminophen is far more dangerous than IB."

Depends on how you define dangerous. It's easier to kill yourself with acetaminophen, but I've seen far more people die from Ibuprofen in therapeutic doses than acetaminophen. Tylenol only kills if you take a huge bottle of it at once or 4 grams a day for 2-3 decades and even then most people are fine on that dose. I've seen people get an ulcer and bleed to to death with less than 3 months over-the-counter dose of ibuprofen and naproxen (aleve) and have several people in my practice with damaged kidneys due to long-term use ibuprofen/naproxen. In 2 decades in medicine spanning a a career and schooling, I've never seen a single person die of liver failure from acetaminophen except where they chugged an entire bottle trying to kill themselves.

From: LBshooter
30-Jan-19
Any of you on blood thinners stay away from Advil ( ibuprofen). Tylenol is good stuff but be careful if you have been drinking , not good to mix.

From: TD
30-Jan-19

TD's embedded Photo
TD's embedded Photo

From: Bou'bound
30-Jan-19
some excellent medical advise above. You should give your doctor a call and ask where to set your treestand up.

30-Jan-19
I have too much experience. My experience taught me two important things. 1. Get a doctor you like and trust and share your concerns with the doctor. 2. Good advice for me may be bad for you. I took Ibuprofen far too much for my liking. My doctor advised me to take both. I reported back that it was not as effective as expected. We trued other pain meds and I was still not happy with the result. I had surgery and I am happy to report I exercise every day(This is an important part of MY prescription) and I don't take any pain meds on a regular basis now.

From: midwest
30-Jan-19
For reference to those who don't know, Deertick is an MD and Idyll is a PA.

From: Linecutter
30-Jan-19
"ALL" drugs have side effects, some more so than others. It bothers me that 12yds used the comment that he has been pounding the Tylenol. A lot of people look at Tylenol/Acetaminophen as a "safe drug". Taken to frequently and depending on the dose it can and will cause liver damage. Liver damage IS NOT a good thing. Also drinking and alcohol taking Tylenol is a NO - NO. There has been reported cases where someone had only two to three drinks and took Tylenol and ended up with severe liver damage. I took care of a teenager who took a large amount of Tylenol and didn't tell her mother. After a few days later when she got scared, she did finally tell her. The mom brought her to the hospital, the girl had to have a liver transplant because of it . Drugs like Motrin/Ibuprophen, Naprosyn/Alieve, and the like can cause kidney damage, on the plus side with those if you increase your fluid intake while taking them, it decreases the damaging effects. With either of these type of drugs the attitude of "If a little is good more is better." can and will get you into trouble. Only take the medication according to bottle directions or as directed by your doctor. If you take these medications as you are supposed to you should have no problem. One of the reasons we have so many different types, of the same family of drugs, is because different people react differently and what my help one doesn't always help another, so there are choices out there that can be used. DANNY

From: Buffalo1
30-Jan-19
This is why “medical” marijuana was developed !!

From: bad karma
30-Jan-19
Allergies are cumulative. I am allergic to nsaids, i.e., any otc pain killers other than Tylenol.

So, please be aware that at some point your body may decide to rebel against these meds. And when it does, it's not pretty.

From: HUNT MAN
30-Jan-19
This ^^^^^^^^^.!!!!!!!!

From: DaleT
30-Jan-19
I agree that much of the above info is interesting and useful. Not to be argumentative but only to add a couple of things I find interesting:

--- while the above statement: "The liver can be severely damaged and as long as it isn't to the point of scarring (cirrhosis), it will completely regenerate. You can take a large portion of the liver out and transplant it into someone else and your liver will grow back. It's the only organ with such regenerative ability." is mostly true - regeneration of the liver significantly increases the risk of developing hepatocellular carcinoma (liver cancer) and may activate the growth of occult micrometastases from other neoplasms present in the liver. The point is that the liver's ability to regenerate is great - but not without risk.

--- it is pretty well known that non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) like ibuprofen can cause gastric ulcers; what doesn't seem well know is that they can also cause canker sores (aphthous ulcers) in the mouth. This may have some genetic predisposition as my mother and I both quickly develop canker sores after taking normal dosages of any of the NSAIDs.

From: ohiohunter
30-Jan-19
I never felt CBD oil did anything for my inflammation, but it sure as heck gives me wicked cotton mouth... seriously unquenchable.

From: MPN
30-Jan-19
Drug related inquiries- Speak with a Pharmacist, no better resource. Some of the above information is accurate, some not. If you don’ t know the difference you could be putting yourself /others at risk.

From: bigdog21
30-Jan-19
talk to your doctor. I have bad Rumi tori arthritic really bad in the knees some days where hard to walk a block. he prescribed Meloxicam 15 mg. I fill like a new person.

30-Jan-19
Damn, i take 1-4 ibuprofen most days and have for about 5 years with a short break from that after my microdiscectomy around 4 years ago.... I’m effed....

From: KY EyeBow
30-Jan-19
Talk to YOUR health care provider, not an internet forum about what is medically appropriate for YOU. I like Bowsite, but I certainly don't use it for medical advise!

From: Swampbuck
30-Jan-19
Opening of turkey and deer season always cures all of my ailments, no meds needed. ;)

From: drycreek
30-Jan-19
stick n string, you and me both brother !

From: kyrob
30-Jan-19
If you are taking NSAIDS regularly, you should be taking a stomach pill of some sort.

From: Franklin
30-Jan-19
I would steer clear of ingesting ANYTHING religiously made by big pharma....and just because your doctor suggests it or prescribes it doesn`t make it 100% for you. Doctors are no different than your mechanic....choose their advice wisely.

From: Linecutter
30-Jan-19
stick and string

If you are taking the over the counter ibuprofen which is 200mg/tab and you are only taking 1tab to 4 tablets per day you have nothing to worry about. That is non-prescription doses. If that is all you have to take to help you for pain I envy you. For my arthritis I need to take 600mg 2-3 times per day and have for years, I on the other hand need to be careful. It was getting to the point where that wasn't helping as much. So I talked to my Orthopedic doc he started on Meloxicam. Now taking that I CAN NOT take any other NSAIDS. So if I get sick and run a fever I have to stop the Meloxicam, to take the Ibuprofen, Tylenol doesn't work for my fevers. Life is a Bitch when you get old. DANNY

30-Jan-19
Whew.... i was bout to up my life insurance rates so my wife n kids would make out better....

Yeah, getting old sucks. But there’s only one alternative....;^)

From: 12yards
30-Jan-19
Linecutter, when I said I was pounding the cold medicine, I meant that I was taking the recommended doses for the past few days. Actually probably less than what I could take. So I'm not abusing it. So you are right, it was a poor choice of words. Despite my arthritic shoulders, I have a healthy fear of taking any meds. I take Ibuprofen sparingly and only with food. I rarely take Tylenol, usually for fever or headache which is extremely rare for me. But I may experiment with Tylenol a little more before shooting sessions or before hunts to see if it helps me with pain. Thank you for all the feedback on this from everyone. I'm glad I posted. Oh, and I rarely drink and never when taking pain relievers, so that is a non-issue for me.

From: Aspen Ghost
30-Jan-19
For you guys that take Ibuprofen on a daily basis (or any OTC meds) I would only recommend that you be sure to get an annual physical. My wife was taking ibuprofen a lot and the doc said it was affecting her liver enzymes or some such thing. OTC meds are not intended for long term use. There may be legit reasons to use them long term but if you do make sure the Doc is involved.

From: Kodiak
30-Jan-19
Tylenol does nothing, ibuprofen works well.

From: Buffalo1
30-Jan-19
I knew a man who had bad arthritis of the knees. He did not take any med for pains or inflammation - his medication was rubbing WD 40 on his knees every morning. He said that solved his problems. He used WD 40 to a very ripe old age. He never slowed down.

From: Lost Arra
30-Jan-19
Tumeric and Black Pepper in capsule form and on food (occasional Meloxicam if I overdo things like chainsaw work). Stopped taking all ibuprofen and tylenol. Bad old-man shoulder (fractured glenoid and surgery 25 years ago) Placebo my a**. Shoulder feels better now than it has in past 35 years.

From: Franklin
30-Jan-19
Did any of you receive the PM "memo" from "IdyllwildArcher". According to him, those of us that ACTUALLY have these ailments and real life experience have no business "giving medical advice".

Only a "educated medical professional" should be giving opinions on the hot button life and death issue of "Tylenol or IB"....LMAO.....which is the equivalent to the other major life and death question...."paper or plastic" at your local grocery store.

Why do people send unsolicited PMs to start shit with people???

From: COHOYTHUNTER
30-Jan-19
Rub some dirt on it and walk it off...

30-Jan-19
Nope Franklin, it was just you since you've taken the opportunity to call me out on other threads with your silly accusations, ie: My opinion not mattering because I lived part of my life in California.

So when I see you post nonsense like: "...acetaminophen is far more dangerous than IB..." which is false, I'll call you out on it since you feel the need to make baseless attacks on fellow hunters and make claims from which you know nothing about.

EDIT: BTW, straight off the FDA's website: 16,000 deaths per year related to NSAIDs yearly in the US vs 450 for Tylenol. You wouldn't know this because, as you admitted in PMs, your knowledge is based off of your 13 surgeries, not formal education in things like death rates or working in an ER and seeing person after person die of GI bleeds from NSAIDs as I have.

From: Franklin
30-Jan-19
So you admit to being a little bitch?.....thanks, got it.

30-Jan-19
Oh snap

30-Jan-19
SMH

From: midwest
30-Jan-19
Buffalo1, He should have had grease zerks installed. Then he wouldn't have needed to lubricate so often. ;-)

From: N8tureBoy
30-Jan-19
Acetaminophen/Tylenol max daily dose should not exceed 4000mg for healthy adults. 3000 if there is already some liver disease. Things can get tricky when people take tylenol and then also take cold/flu meds, which also contain additional acetaminophen. You need to read the labels and do the math. Don't wash it down with booze....

People think that just because something is sold over the counter it is safe. NSAIDs kill +/- 300 people a week due to GI bleeds. That's like a 747 crash every week that never makes the nightly news. The risk of a bleed goes up with age. NSAIDs have 2 "black box" warnings from the FDA - stomach bleeding and cardiac risks - such as increased blood pressure, heart attack and stroke risk. If you take a blood pressure medication, NSAIDs can interfere with it. They can also damage your kidneys. Meloxicam and Nabumetone are a little easier on the stomach, but still have cardiac risks. A recent study suggested that diclofenac seems to have a bit more cardiac risk than some to the others. For people with stomach issues or heart problems, topical diclofenac/Voltaren gel works well for some joints such as knees and doesn't have the bleeding or cardiac risks, but doesn't work so well for back pain.

Lots of free advice on the internet. You get what you pay for.... always check with your health care provider

From: Buffalo1
30-Jan-19
Midwest I think that would be a have been workable idea.

30-Jan-19
Franklin, dude....

From: Deertick
30-Jan-19
As I said above, if you don’t understand “regression to the mean” and have a deep understanding of pathophysiology AND psychology, it’s unlikely you’ll see what these substances (and others) are useful for, and how maybe a little time off is a reasonable alternative.

I find it interesting that Idyll and myself, as medical professionals, suggested non-drug therapies as primary treatments for pain. So often, I hear “docs just push meds”. Not the good ones.

Tylenol and Ibuprofen are fine ... but neither is useful for “any” pain. If you have questions, ask someone you trust ... hopefully you have a trained and experienced person to guide you. Or YouTube. YMMV. I feel sorry for people who have been treated poorly by my profession. Bad docs give us all a bad name. But we have to have rules as to how we discuss these things.

One of those rules is: the plural of “anecdote” is NOT “data”. We have to decide to answer these questions with rational thought, ie science. Anecdote doesn’t count.

From: Vids
30-Jan-19
Back to the OP's original question - I'll offer some anecdotal experience. For me, acetaminophen does nothing but ibuprofen gets rid of pain like magic. I was on blood thinners a few years ago after a PE and couldn't take NSAIDs for 6 months, I was miserable anytime I got a headache. My wife is the complete opposite, acetaminophen is like magic for her and NSAIDs do nothing. So far, our daughters are completely opposite from one another too. Maybe there's something to it, or maybe it's all psychological. Who knows, just thought I'd share.

From: Linecutter
30-Jan-19
Franklin In my real life (not the life I have on here) I am a Nurse and have been for 41 years. I was an Othopedic Nurse for 9.5 yrs them .

N8ureBoy, As I have mentioned "ALL" meidications have side effects. Doesn't mean those side effects, affect everyone or even a large portion of those taking the meidications, but there are enough people that it does, so they have to list them. I have taken NSAIDS for well over 15 years, Lord knows how many times on an empty stomache, and have had no GI issues. Probablly will now :'). Would I recommend that to anyone else, ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! Medications do not affect all people the same way.

To EVERYBODY who has followed this thread: Know the medications you take, the dose you take (and what is in it if it is over the counter, If there is 1000mg of acetomenophen in a cold med, you can't turn around and take 1000mg of acetomenophen on top of that or vice versa) if you have any existing drug allergies "BE SURE" your Doctor and Pharmacist are aware of them, "be aware" of your medication's side effects, even the over the counter meds or herbal suppliments (yes herbal suppliments can have side effects to), incase you start having/noticing symptoms. If you do, then call your Doctor for the prescribed meds, over the counter stuff stop taking it. You DON'T need to be afraid you will have every side effect listed or even one of them. If that were the case I would have been dead a long time ago. You can always find the side effects listings OnLine for any medication you take, and/or you can talk to your Pharmicist. Also know herbal suppliments can affect some medications effects. As an example you don't want to drink Grapefruit Juice, eat Grapefruit, or a Grapefruit suppliment when on many heart meidications. Also make sure ALL of your Doctors know "ALL" of the medications you are taking and any herbal suppliments or vitamin suppliments. So they don't prescribe a medication that may interfer with another or have a similar effect as another medication you are on. If the doctor writes a new Prescription med, for a problem you are already taking a medication for, and they don't tell you, "ASK!!" if you are supposed to keep taking all your other medications. Also if you are seeing a Specialist for a problem that is prescribing meds for you, and your PCP is trying to prescribe over the Specialist (basicially changing your meds), call your Specialist first before taking what your PCP is ordering, THAT is why they are the Specialist your PCP isn't. ASSUME NOTHING!! DANNY

31-Jan-19
"I find it interesting that Idyll and myself, as medical professionals, suggested non-drug therapies as primary treatments for pain."

When I was 16, I broke my neck snowboarding. It left me with a demolished C5-C6 disk that causes me pain that sometimes prevents me from rolling out of bed. When it gets that bad, I take some Motrin and Tylenol.

I also have a shoulder injury, an ankle injury, two knee injuries, and a pelvic injury and have had pelvic and sinus surgery.

I've taken a Tylenol or a Motrin probably 3-4 times in the past 3 years. What I've found and is backed up by the data/studies/literature, is that chronic pain is better treated by things like Physical Therapy, exercise, things that promote a happy and healthy lifestyle, lowering inflammation in the body via metabolism, stress reduction, meditation, and the like. The one thing that has helped me more than anything with my "bum" neck and ankle is Physical Therapy.

When I'm in my most pain, I sit down with my daughters and enjoy a conversation with them and then I go on a 4-5 mile hike in the woods. Works better than Tylenol or Motrin, although I sometimes do both and I admit that as I get older, the drugs give me more bang for my buck as arthritis (an inflammatory condition) sets in, yet, I still find that I can beat it with exercise.

During the past year, my most pain-free period was in the Brooks, sheep hunting, during the most physically active period of the entire year.

Yet, my anecdotal experience means nothing next to the literature and studies that say as much. Our understanding of chronic pain has been completely upended over the past several years.

One person's personal experience means nothing for other people. Some people see Jesus in a piece of toast... burnt friggen bread.

From: BULELK1
31-Jan-19
Good reading although, I have gone to L'Arginine instead of Ibo or Tyl…..for about the last 5-6 years when needed.

Good luck, Robb

From: kyrob
31-Jan-19
If you are taking NSAIDS regularly, you should be taking a stomach pill of some sort.

From: Lost Arra
31-Jan-19
Deertick: outstanding post!! >>One of those rules is: the plural of “anecdote” is NOT “data”. We have to decide to answer these questions with rational thought, ie science. Anecdote doesn’t count.<<

I hope you don't mind if I borrow that rule for my discussions with patients about opioids.

From: midwest
31-Jan-19
"I've taken a Tylenol or a Motrin probably 3-4 times in the past 3 years. What I've found and is backed up by the data/studies/literature, is that chronic pain is better treated by things like Physical Therapy, exercise, things that promote a happy and healthy lifestyle, lowering inflammation in the body via metabolism, stress reduction, meditation, and the like. The one thing that has helped me more than anything with my "bum" neck and ankle is Physical Therapy. "

^^^THIS!^^^ But a magic pill is so much easier!

From: Deertick
31-Jan-19
Here’s the FIRST thing I tell people with acute soft tissue injuries: “well, this is common, normal, and will almost undoubtedly get better with backing off on intensity of your training temporarily (but not stopping) and rest and nutrition.” Catasrophizing doesn’t help and does hurt people , and reaching for a drug in some sense is a level of catastrophizing. In fact his day and age when everyone is getting an operation or on chronic part n medicines, we should look at how effective those things really are on a population wide basis. And the answer is: not very. But physicians often tell people that injury=need for treatment. (And PTs, chiropractors, etc are no better at this). Acute soft tissue injuries are normal parts of life and will regress to the mean over time.

From: 12yards
31-Jan-19
Idyl, I don't think I'd still be bowhunting if I didn't spend 15 minutes every morning stretching to maintain range of motion in my shoulders and to keep sciatica from sneaking back into my life. I also strength train and do cardio on alternate days at least 4-6 days a week. I'm in decent shape for a 56 year old. I was just dealt a bad hand with dysplasia in my shoulders which has now led to arthritis. I'm just putting off the inevitable replacement as long as I can.

From: ohiohunter
31-Jan-19
Look into rolling. WOW, especially on the quads. It may help keep that sciatica at bay 12yds.. its done wonders for my SI imbalance.

From: 12yards
31-Jan-19
Thanks ohiohunter, I'll check it out.

From: Franklin
31-Jan-19
Linecutter….that`s exactly why I posted this....

"I would steer clear of ingesting ANYTHING religiously made by big pharma....and just because your doctor suggests it or prescribes it doesn`t make it 100% for you. Doctors are no different than your mechanic....choose their advice wisely".

From: Linecutter
31-Jan-19
Franklin it is more than choose their advice wisely. It is choose your mechanic and your Physician wisely. Their are those who graduate at the top of their class and those that graduate at the bottom of their class. You as a patient have to right to refuse treatment if you wish. The one thing to keep in mind when you read the Internet, you need to know what you are reading AND where that information is coming from. Physicians are educated, trained, and then tested to Practice Medicine. Yes there are Physicians who leave a lot to be desired like the MORON here in Columbus who decided to play God, BUT most of them are legit. Just because you read it doesn't mean you fully understand it. Stuff I read on the internet, I have to decipher where the info is coming from, if it is a legit source, and I can't tell you how many times I find it is not. You as a patient do have the right to accept treatment or refuse it no matter what kind it is, from a Doctor, Dentist, Physical Therapist, and so on. When you do, that is YOUR decision so make, sure you have your facts straight and why you are refusing. Because it might just turn around and bite you. DANNY

From: Franklin
31-Jan-19
Most that posted on this thread are speaking from experience....not "reading the internet". These are people that have real ailments like arthritis...bone spurs...surgeries etc. They are giving THEIR experiences with these OTC, prescription drugs and interactions with their doctors. Not sure where "reading the internet" came from.

My doctors for instance, do not use Tylenol for orthopedic purposes....as there are over 600 different drugs with Acetaminophen in them...like the OP stated about the cold medicine.....and you can get more than the recommended amount without knowing it. Besides it really isn`t helpful....so why use it.

I do not take any meds as a general practice as I believe the downsides do not override the positives. As I have clearly stated prior.

From: bad karma
31-Jan-19
Here's what I dealt with as a result of the NSAIDS allergy: 14 doctor visits before I was diagnosed, including 2 sets of labwork. Everything you could cover with pants and a long sleeved shirt looked like a paint by numbers (hives) that took more than 2 years to get back to normal. Edema, my calves swelled to twice the size. Stiffened the lower chambers of my heart. Kidney and liver problems. I could not do ten minutes on a treadmill at 3 mph.

All from an occasional Alleve and Ibuprofen. Literally, maybe 1x/week, other than 5 straight days on a backpack elk hunt.

So when these guys are suggesting non-drug treatment for pain, it would be smart to listen.

From: Linecutter
31-Jan-19
Franklin, Isn't that what people are doing here, reading the Internet and getting information from everything we post. Why use Acetomenaphen, because many people have allergies to NSAIDS. ALSO "bad karma" I truely feel bad that you had to find out, out in the middle of nowhere, you had an NSAID allergy. That just SUCKS!! That woul d be as bad as finding out, out there in the middle of nowhere, you were allergic to bee stings, after being stung. Your handle you use here fits. Tylenol granted is not an anti-inflamatory (the reason why "some" Orthopedic Doctors don't use it) but it is a non-opiate pain killer that is over the counter and it WORKS for many people. The OP is a prime example. To say people don't know how much they are taking, is because they are not reading what is in the over the counter medication they are taking, the information is on the packaging, so that is on them. People giving their experiances is fine or recommending trying alternative, that maybe someone should check out is fine. If I or someone else tell people NOT to do something because "I" as a lone individual had a bad experiance, that is something else. If I would state it as: I had a bad experiance to let people know it could happen to them, that is appropriate. We do that all the time when people have surgery for instance. Example: There is always a chance in any surgery for an infection to happen. Not saying it will happen but IT CAN happen. The OP stated in taking a medication that had Acetomeniphen in it help him more than something else with his pain, that is because we all respond to medications differently, that is why some people have side effects, allergies, and some don't. I am glad for him he found something easily obtainable that works. My concern for him was when he used the wording he chose. He came back and clairified what he was stating. Non-Drug treatment for pain IS NOT always the best way either, depending on the condition, sometimes it can exacerbate the problem. There is no denying strengthing muscles and stretching done properly does "help" some conditions. Actually people who have arthritis, being sedentary is contraindicate, but if the arthritis has gotten bad enough, that is all they want to do because of the pain. NSAIDS as bad as some what to make them out to be, helps relieve some of the inflamation, the pain, and allows them to be more active. Pain is a relative thing also, what some call severe pain, for others it doesn't bother them. When we use the one to ten scale in the medical field when asking about pain, it is how the individual percieves it. Not how I do or you do. The response to therapy whether medical, physical, or the combination there of, is dependent on the individual, how they perceive the results, and the condition being treated.

Your comment made in a previous post in this thread " I would steer clear of ingesting ANYTHING religiously made by big pharma..." shows a preexisting pedjudice by you, towards any mediciations. ALL mediciations are made by big pharmaceutical companies whether generic or name brand. Many medical conditions, people HAVE TO take medications religiously, or suffer serious consequences. As examples Cardiomyopathy. High Blood Pressure, or Type 2 Diabetes just to name a minor few. Because of your Perexisting Predjudice, it makes any and/or ALL your comments to anyone here about mediciations, they should or should not take for any condition , IRRELEVANT. DANNY

From: DanaC
31-Jan-19
Dosage matters, so rather than take two of either, I take one of each. It's a one-two punch against pain while limiting the potential side effects of either.

That said, I don't take them if I don't need them. (And there are days when prescription-strength naproxen is needed.)

From: Franklin
01-Feb-19
Linecutter…the topic is OTC Tylenol and IB....try to focus.

From: Pat Lefemine
01-Feb-19
Locking this topic because it’s going south

This Topic has been locked. Thank you.

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