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There's no catch and release hunting. Blood and death are the intended outcome every time I head to the woods carrying my bow. When successful, blood and death are a necessary part of an outcome that I celebrate. As a hunter, I understand and appreciate her excitement about the kill and the successful hunt. A little discretion with social media though... Pete

Of course "we" are not offended by blood.

But unfortunately "they" are. And by "they" I mean a lot of the hunting neutral public that we will have to rely on when the anti's get stuff on a ballot.

I don't hide that I am a hunter, but I don't unnecessarily push out images that will likely disturb the average, hunting neutral soccer mom either. Mrs. Soccer mom votes too.

The same way most city folks love a good burger, but couldn't stand watching a cow get killed and butchered. The disconnect is real. It's the same with hunting, the hunting neutrals generally don't mind that it goes on, but most DO NOT want to see it.

Just my opinion, but I am trying to think about the best long game strategy to keep our hunting rights.

Grow a pair you Nancies or borrow that ladies.

Why is it so much to ask to not post stupid pictures anti's could use to turn a hunter neutral person into someone who may consider voting against pro-hunting legislation. Stupid sh*t like this doesn't help our cause. It's not a political issue, it's an IQ issue. 1boonr has it right, the goal shouldn't be to change an anti's mind which isn't going to happen, it should just be to keep a hunter neutral person voting pro-hunting.

We're not doubting the stupidity of the argument on the anti's. But uneducated hunter neutral public don't care enough one way or the other and this stuff does not help sway them our direction when it comes time to hit the ballot box.

"seems like most people here are falling right into the hands of the liberals". Why??? Because we don't want to piss off the hunter neutral population for no apparent reason other than to get likes smiling like an idiot with blood all over?

Like I said if you see bad in this or think what we do is wrong, send your money to PETA instead.

I couldn't give two sh*ts about anti-hunters, it's the hunting neutral group I try and have an influence on. I had a patient last week ask my opinion on trophy hunting. I explained all the positives and what good comes from that, as well as explained how the term gets misused more often than not. She was hunter neutral asking me about hunting, I'd like to think shes going to be an ally when needed in the voters box. Now if she read this story, what do you think she's voting?

Look at it this way: we all enjoy a naked lady, there are tons of photos of beautiful renaissance paintings in textbooks in schools and libraries and bookstores. But how many photographs of Hustler-type porn pictures would be allowed on a high school campus, bookstore or library...? Same naked woman, just more (or less) tasteful (or tasteless). It's all about presentation, think about it. We would not object to our children looking at historical art, but wouldn't much appreciate a youngster viewing hard-core porn. The pictures the gal posted were hunting porn, not tasteful hero/trophy images. Same dead animal, different presentation.

I don't look at it as "infighting", I look at it as a chance to learn right from wrong. I support her right to do what she did, and only wish that she would have finished the right, appropriate way. Would you support her if she took a picture of herself holding the lion's decapitated head...? The bloody hands didn't bother me, but I know enough to realize that it would bother a LOT of people - a lot of voting people. Or, take the pictures and NOT post them on social media, wouldn't that be the smart thing to do...?

I'm not condoning this girl's choice to put this picture out there, and surely she had to know that there would be severe backlash. And to those who state they shouldn't post these photos on Instagram, FB, or whatever the flavor of the month social media site, these anti-hunters can just as easily pull them off of hunting sites like this. Careful who we start demonizing....especially when they share the same pursuits we all do.

You speak of getting those on the fence over to our side, I think if we “clean-up” hunting too much we do a disservice, there will be blood, there could be a wound, there could be sounds/moans. Whatvwe call hunting (art) is the standard, we are the experts, we set the bar. My take show it for what it is and hold your head high!

Some could take offense at your repeated reference to this social issue being a war. Some may go further and say it's disrespectful to the men and women who have served their country.

Someone will always find something to be outraged about you don't have to join in.

This, of course is about modern sport hunting, not survival/subsistence hunting. My observations lead me to conclude, that we have started to celebrate the kill more than the hunt. One evidence of this is by the increasing acceptance of technology to make killing easier, which puts the emphasis on killing, not hunting. It's also evidenced by unnecessarily gory pictures of the kill, which can only be interpreted as disrespectful of the animal. Or at least, more apt to be interpreted that way by non-hunters. If we can't portray our passion for hunting for the right reasons (or worse, if many are hunting just for the kill), in a respectful, appropriate way, we are only hurting our cause.

I'll give another example. Several years ago there was an art series depicting the moment an arrow struck and/or penetrated an animal. I voiced my objection to this "art" as crude, disturbing, and celebrating the wrong aspect of the hunt. The arguments against me revolved around 'this is why we hunt. I'm not ashamed of killing, and won't make apologies for it'. All right. Let me make this comparison. How many of you have kids? Are you proud of your kids? Do you know how those kids were conceived? If you answered yes to the last two, then do you display 'full penetration' art of that act on your living room walls. I doubt it. Some things should be kept personal.

And Tim, I don't think the bloody hands photo sends a message that is congruent with what we as hunters believe. Everything else, you're right, be proud of what we do take it as it comes.

Here is how my last pronghorn died. I didn't have any way to clean it up for "display", so the second photo is the only "trophy" photo I have. There is another thread on here with a unique mount of a deer head on a pack. I don't recall seeing blood dripping off the deer or the pack. I wonder why?

Of course death threats and harassment of a legal hunter is not right and I would never support that. I will fight the anti's for every inch of our hunting rights. I just realize that if we have the hunting neutral folks with us, it'll make it a heck of a lot easier to defend.

Anti's- We will never will convince about anything, they will hate us and what we do either way. Hunting neutral people- It matters(in the long term) how they perceives us, whether some of you will admit it or not.

I don't disagree. But just like a success photo, the trophy is a "staged" representation. You don't HAVE to show the gore. Even the players behind the trophy depicted above look pretty sanitized.

So a group uses her bloody hands photo and gets a bunch of non-hunters who are neutral to hunting to vote against mountain lion hunting and now and forever more, lion hunting is banned in CO.

Is she still righteous? Did she do the right thing?

I can tattoo my face - it's perfectly legal. It doesn't mean that it's a good idea.

There is such a thing as tact. Tact, for tact's sake, means that we self-police ourselves. We don't burp and fart loudly in family restaurants either.

It’s not cut and dried on either view, both are right and both are wrong as far as the end results go. Keeping your head low will simply loose the battle through the attrition of obscurity. You’ll be given no credence because you have no profile. But sticking your head up will get it shot at and hit some times.

Hunting is the “Alamo”. Out numbered and inevitably to be overrun. You can only choose how to die. Surrender and face execution or go down swinging your empty gun.

Everytime I’ve field dressed an Animal I’ve gotten bloody hands, every damn time. Never have I done an activity we’re it ended with a Tatoo on my face? Could Lion Hunting get voted out, yep for sure, but a unified hunters voice using science and funding will go a lot further than hiding it like it’s a dirty secret or necessiry evil. Again if you see something wrong with her having bloody hands you’ve either been conditioned by opposition or might need to reconsider calling yourself a hunter.

Tim, totally agree with you on this point. Also,I see nothing wrong with bloody hands either.

I just think shoving them in the face of someone that is not accustomed to such things, may not help my cause of getting them to agree with me about hunting.

I hate to say it, but a lot of decisions involving wildlife are made at the ballots box, with emotion. I don't agree with this either, but it happens. If wildlife was managed strictly by science, there would never be anything about hunting on a ballot.

I educate as many people that will listen to me about hunting. And most folks are receptive to listen, if approached correctly. I have turned hunting neutral people into pro hunting people with right info, tact and approach.

I don't think anyone here is saying to lay low, not fight and not be proud to be a hunter.

I don't think anyone here thinks there's anything wrong with bloody hands. Yes, we all get bloody hands every time we kill something.

We also get poop on our butts every time we take a dump. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. But it doesn't mean that posting pictures of it on Facebook is tactful or represents us well.

It one thing to worry about what some anti or even non-hunter might think.... so sensitive.... That there are hunters that recoil from these pics..... SMH..... some will go to great lengths to not have to deal with dead animals..... blood? Seriously? I kill a few things, never killed or eaten anything EVER that blood wasn't involved.

Gonna guess some won't wear a MAGA hat or hunting bumper sticker...... or take a stand for anything that might "offend" the perpetually offended......

They can suck it up buttercup.... snowflakes need to be drug out by their toes into the reality of sunlight. There is nothing you can do to convince them to come out on their own..... or face the reality that other people actually have lives....

Could the photos been better? Yeah probably. But the over the top reaction to them..... especially here.... is ridiculous. It's odd to me that folks would need to be reminded of reality, or that it offends them. They may make the choice to live in their little fairyland bubble, but me.... or the rest of the world.... we don't have to.

Congrats to her. Nice cat and she looks stoked! Honestly, to me, pretty cool stuff....

Ike said it well, there a million things in life that are perfectly natural, but are they appropriate to show on social media, and possibly compromise the future of hunting opportunities (?)

We've lived through two of them here and learned our lessons the hard way. We learned that when faced with an emotional decision about hunting, 70% of people will vote against us. They aren't anti-hunters. Just ordinary people who don't like some of the things we do after learning about them.

As to the hog; I didn't take that photo, it was the only photo I had, and it wasn't published for the general public.

As to the OP; like many, I am not condemning her. She does not deserve the hateful responses. However, she got what she should have expected. Why would you post something on Facebook that you KNOW is going to elicit that type of response, unless that is your purpose? It also does not help our cause with the non-hunting public.

You don't see the beef industry promoting itself by showing videos and photos of slaughter houses. Think we might learn something from that?

They don't have to invent problems. We serve the problem to them all the time.

Rocky, tell us how you would go about battling a statewide election campaign where the airwaves are filled with the grossest, bloodiest hunting photos and videos that can be plucked off the web? Where the other side has millions in outside money to invest and professional marketing and production studios to produce the most emotionally wrenching TV ads possible. And they saturate TV shows watched by mainstream, nonhunting voters who didn't care about baiting bears (for example) before this all started.

Would be interested to know your strategy, because having been through two of them, as an active participant on "our" side, it would be good to know how you would counter it. "Our side" got slaughtered by voters 70-30%.

BTW, the EVP of HSUS personally told me in an interview that we give them so much ammo that they only need to assemble it into ad campaigns. He was laughing whenbhe told me this. No need to spend their money producing it because we serve it up to them for free..

First world problems. Things are too convenient and easy. We, as a society, have too much time on our hands to make strife. Life used to be much harder, we spent more time living/surviving. No one had time for such trivial BS.

We, the human race, are predators, we are hunters, survivors. Turn time back a few years... life was hard and it was bloody as hell. City streets used to run blood like rivers. Fighting and butchering.

I am so tired of the wining and griping about hurt feelings and someone being offended, and not just about hunting!

Suck it up buttercup. Life is death, all manors of death.

And too be clear, since the groups with the loudest voices get heard, let's all make some noise instead of just cowering to the "offended". How many registered hunters are there in the USA? I am willing to bet we are a bigger group than all the anti hunting, animal rights groups combined.

Let's stay one group. Let's be loud and proud!

Congrats to her and hopefully more women get into hunting. Just because people don't hunt doesn't mean they will fall for the media sensational nonsense.

And I have no problem with this woman's pictures. I just feel that by posting them on FB, it was asking for exactly what is happening: a push to ban lion/bobcat hunting in CO. Read the article. This group is trying to do that now. And they may succeed! We may lose the ability to hunt lions and bobcats in CO over these pictures and the bloody hands pic is probably the straw that broke the camel's back if it comes to this.

You want to argue about how trophy hunting should banned? Lets have a show of hands who wants to toss that under the bus? I mean, it's just one more on the island to toss to the alligators? I haven't hunted grizz or African lion, don't have a hunt booked.... no big deal, because it doesn't effect me..... just don't make anybody upset.... shhhhhhh.....

The girl was happy, had a great hunt, wanted to share it with her friends. She's taking the heat now. It should be those creating the heat for her we should be all over.... not this girl. But hey.... let's abandon her to those gators and walk quietly away. She's a goner.....

If you don't stand up for something you believe in.... especially because you're worried about what some clueless urban NPC may think.... then it's lost already. At least for some.

Sorry. I'm not rolling over on my back for something as benign as this. Urban 1st world issues blown up by triggered snowflakes..... but shhhh..... don't upset their safe space...good grief...

Thankfully I have seen in my lifetime an increase in our awareness about how we present ourselves to non hunters. However we have long ways to go as witnesses by this example, and even more telling by the arrogant and ignorant people defending of it.

The young woman's accomplishment is admirable - to hunters. It becomes a viral distasteful example of everything wrong with "trophy" hunting to the most important segment, that being those who don't hunt, don't mind the fact that we hunt, but don't like trophy hunting. And they vote.

Like Trial says, its not what we do or how proud we are of it. Its how we present ourselves to those who control our fate.

All they had to do was use our own videos and photos in the nonstop TV ads. Give me a break. Some of us are talking about reality while some of you live in fantasyland.

Not meant to be obnoxious, shove it in your face, loud and proud. Always organized, tactful, but aggressive. If something, like her pics, for instance happens to be too much for some of our own, so what. It is still reality. It is what it is. We all get bloody doing what we do. But we still need to stay united and back her. She did nothing wrong.

We are talking about perception. By saying she was wrong, we are supporting the anti's stance. She wasn't wrong. Some people just have a different perception. Either way, it is the reality of hunting. Death is an unfortunate reality when hunting. An unfortunate byproduct of providing sustenance. Years ago, the hunters were the heroes. The bloodier they came back, the better things were for society. Now, with all the conveniences we have, we are perceived as cruel for taking our own game. I for one will not be shamed, or made to feel any ounce of sorry for any perception anyone else has of me. I live and eat responsibly and as a group, I think most bowsiters do the same. We may differ in opinion, but we all have similar ideals. We are not wrong, we are the last of what propelled humanity to be as successful as we are. But history repeats itself, what got us where we are, is now, perceived to be wrong by the ones who never got bloody, just suckled off the teet. It is healthy to get a dose of reality for these nitwits that think meat comes in a package and no death is involved. And life is all hunky dory fairy tale unicorn pooping glitter crap. Enough already. These people need to grow up.

The point is ... this is nature. Blood and death plays a VERY large part in nature. So what, some people got offended. It is only a big deal for us if we are quiet and hope it goes away and stay unorganized and divided. If we, as a group, are as loud as they are. Preach and show hunting in a positive light, loud as they are anti. I think we can show the "neutral " that the zealots are just that, and nothing more. Just to be ignored.

I am not trying to think too hard, but I can't think of a time when cowering, or hide in the shadows, or run and hide, and don't dare make a move, or pretend it doesn't exist, has succeeded.

Which is exactly what happens when photos go viral now, amplified X100,000 in a political campaign. And the general public is deeply opposed to "trophy hunting". If this gal was holding a deer it wouldn't be such a big deal. But a lion? Cecil's wife? Lion King? Nobody "needs" to kill a lion (they think), unlike deer, which are everywhere and eat people's gardens.

I believe folks need to live through one of those campaigns and elections before they truly understand how effective the visceral images can be to nonhunters. Its the discussion topic du jour. It's one thing to say, "We need to do this or that, educate them, whatever." Quite another to have lived through a couple of them. You really can't relate until you've been there.

"Trophy hunting" in it's media use is a buzzword used by anti's to define hunting in a broad sweep. Very similar to the phrase "assault weapons" used by the media, low information folks or those folks with agendas to define any semi-automatic weapon.

I'm wondering if the pic wasn't an inside joke of some kind, like she loved to hunt but didn't like to get bloody...after the lion pics were done, then she noticed that her hands were red, and they got a picture to prove it..could have been that innocent on her part....who knows...

I am sick of the virtue signalling of the left and the mainstream media, but I do see how this will be used against us.....pictures are often taken out of context and construed to prove a point...and prove a point they do. It's an unfortunate event....and may cause a groundswell of more anti-hunting regulation..

People get more upset seeing a pic of lion blood on a females hands, than they do seeing a baby human's blood on a females hands....sad time in human history.

I live in the middle of lion country, and that's how the people on our mountain community social media platform think. "Nobody kills lions for food". And people think they're rare/endangered because they never see them when out on nature hikes. When someone posts a trail cam photo, everyone gushes about how beautiful it is. But these people aren't anti "hunting", as a majority.

It would be a perfect time to inject the fact that predators need to be managed, as hunters themselves manage game self imposed through seasons and allocations. It eliminates the wild swings of feast and starvation and back again, with the only "balance" coming as the predator and prey pass each other in opposite directions.... even then you get a good number of "hunters" that oppose such management.

Are there those here who would support throwing lion hunting under the bus "for the good of hunting" as they did with the bears? So we put forth better "optics"? Try to "get along" with clueless urban society? How well is that working???

Anybody with foresight can see the bloody hands pictures may hurt the hunting image,......... and for damn certain they will not help,........ not now, not ever!!! Given these facts, wouldn't it be prudent to not post such images on a known liberal social media when we absolutey know they can only hurt our cause, and not help in any way, shape, or form?

Are some of you suggesting we should get off our butts and " help our cause " by getting aggressive with posting even more bloody hands and trophy pictures on a known liberal social media site? Is that really the answer to our fight to preserve hunting? I mean...really??

We must “normalize” hunting again, post your pictures on Social Media, talk to those on the fence (with great enthusiasm) share your bounty, tan hides, make things with them and give away as presents. Be an Ambassador not an Ashamed Hunter.

This “picture” incident in not only a teachable moment but could have actually been used in favor of protecting hunting rights. I would have shared the crap out of the photo, first guy to say something bad I’d call them Misogynistic! First female to bash it, I’d explain how this “brave” young lady went into to cold/dangerous wilderness to manage wildlife so that fife, Fido, little Bobby and Susie could be safe in backyards! I’d also challenge anyone who saw anything wrong in these pictures that it was they who were wrong, as this is NORMAL!!!!

You want to change peoples opinions you better start engaging, Social Media is the perfect platform, you don’t want to engage then STFU! The early posts here saying the young women deserved threats are 100 times worse than a picture of a hunter having “Bloody Hands”!

Perhaps the more blood and guts you can get in pictures,( especially with young hunters) , and posting them all over the internet and news media will make voters pro hunting. Reverse the trends, post more blood and guts and watch sport hunting prosper!!! Come on all mighty hunters, do the blood and guts challenge, get your pictures on the liberal media facebook today.

I take it then you are not going to help our cause by competing in the blood and guts challenge. Hiding under a rock is not good, get those bloody pictures out there now!

My businesses have been attacked multiple times on Social Media because of my hunting, each and every time I’ve engaged the Antis, fought them with facts and taken the high road. They inevitably resort to emotional name calling and exsope themselves as the unhinged ones. Not only do I get them off my back but I always get a 10-15% bump in business while engaging. It can be done!

By bashing a young huntress for a photo some might find distasteful you hurt our cause more than the photo. These photos will come out and blasting them won’t help, you better learn to spin it and/or normalize it because saying a she deserves doxing and death-threats is the worst possible thing that can be done!

That is the point, and I will leave it there.

Some of you are confusing "hunting" traditional prey animals like deer and elk, ducks, etc.. with killing predators perceived as simply "trophies". The general public strongly approves of the former. They do not appprove of the latter. Can't change their minds because CPW doesn't even know how many lions we have, and anyway, "they were here first". If this young woman's photo had been of her with a deer and bloody hands, no big deal. A few nutjobs posting, but it wouldn't be on the 6 o'clock news.

Nobody is going to put deer hunting into an general election. But bears and lions are low hanging fruit. The antis have millions of $ to invest in ad campaigns. HSUS, FFA, WWF, DoW, WildEarth, on and on. We have...? The contributions to help us during the bear and trapping campaigns were minimal. Hunters will spend $200 for a pair of Sitka underpants, but when the spit hits the fan, we saw just how little hunters from outside Colorado really care to support us with their wallets.

Sorry to interject facts and logic into an otherwise fun emotional debate. We've been there when the spit DOES hit the fan. We've fought in the trenches against public opinion, with very little outside funding. Most of you guys have not.

Joe you ever seen a “Gay Pride” Parade? Been way down Bourbon late night? Yeah they may not put out bedroom antics all the time but it comes out and the own in. They will a say you’re the weird one if you find it distasteful, don’t look if you don’t like or do you have a problem with two people in love? You better believe they will own that shit!

You speak of a video that was put out about hugging a hunter, a video can be produced easily and cheap showing the value of predator hunting? If only Hollywood would make a movie of the recent hiker Killing a Cat with bare hands, it would reasonate like Jaws! Let’s get back to reality though. Are Colorado hunters just going to sit and keep their fingers crossed, Blast people when photos come out and hope for a positive outcome?

The bigger issue is apathy. Just like with bears and trapping, most hunters seem to have the attitude of "I don't hunt X, so why should I care?" Plus, the CBA is the only significant organized hunting lobbying group in the state. Rifle hunters? Meh. Outfitters and livestock folks are on our side but we are way outnumbered and out-financed.

And the "new" Commission to be appointed is a total wild card because our new Governor's husband (wife?) is an animal rights advocate. We don't know who he will appoint but he is requiring the current commissioners to reapply, and there are a number of openings.

If the bobcat ban is defeated by the Commission, then they may follow through with a ballot initiative that will include banning lions for more emotional impact. The amount of money from outside to support it will overwhelm the small amount that can be raised by the Outfitter Assn. and other interested groups. So "our" campaign will be very limited and will have to focus on the need for predator control, with very little supporting data besides some limited fawn recruitment studies that also include coyotes and bears.

But remember, in the urban public mind, predators were here first and have just as much right to deer as hunters. And they are cute, and everybody wants to see one. So unless some big outside money comes in to fight it...

Another likely ballot issue coming involves wolf introduction. They promised to do it after the Commission rejected them. They have money, too. So we just have to wait and see and react accordingly with whatever resources are available.

Read the book, The beast in the Garden. Back in the late '80s and early '90s, cougars started increasing their hunting in the foothills near Boulder and Idaho Springs. Deer were not plentiful enough so they started killing pets and even deliberately targeting and attacking people. The then DOW saw the problem building and were concerned that residents would want all the cats killed or removed. They were surprised when just the opposite happened. They were told to leave the cats alone, even after one girl was mauled and a young jogger killed and partially eaten. You can't force someone to become educated, or to think like you do. That's obvious from your own responses.

I remember all the advice being given that hunters should lie low when out in public. I agree with some of it, but not all. I never try to hide my status as a hunter - a proud hunter. Instead, I wear my camo in public. But I make damn sure to act like a model citizen when I do. I try to be friendly, tip well, hold doors for others, drive courteously. I do NOT brazenly, wear bloody clothing in town, nor display dead animals openly - suck it up buttercup. I'ld rather have people think as I leave, "huh, that's not how I pictured a hunter", rather than, "what a bloodthirsty bastard". Perception matters - A LOT!

About those bloody clothes. Back in the late 70's. I came out of the back country into Vail late at night, covered in blood from an elk I had to take care of solo that was in a difficult position. I needed to make a phone call and this was before cell phones. So a pay phone it was, outside a liquor store. The clerk eyed me through the window with obvious suspicion and made her own call. Shortly, a cop drove up and took my measure as I nodded a greeting to him as he walked by, but he didn't talk to me. Instead, I assume he explained the situation to the clerk, and drove away. No doubt, I looked like some deranged ax murderer.

This is the nationwide public perception battle we are fighting.

What I am offended by is her killing an animal that predates on the tree-huggers, hikers, trail runners and various other annoyances who are all likely anti-hunting ??. Geez, the anti’s should build her a shrine!

But, in my life, if hunting becomes outlawed, I will become an outlaw.

They are like a cancer- One spot today and all over the body in a month. Before you realize it, you are consumed and dead.

As the drawing questions, “Where will you draw the line?”

Hunters had better get loud and get active because if they don’t, the only sound that non hunters will hear will be the sqealing voice of the antis and support them.

BPM has given some great suggestions on how to positively treat non hunters and to have them on our side.

You do not win a war in the “retreat” mode.

Do have anyone behind you that you would like to see have the same privileges that you have had and same enjoyments that you have experienced in sport hunting?

It’s bigger than you- it’s the future generations.

Yes Buffalo1, I have kids and grandkids and though I wish the world would not change (for the worse) for them, I'm resigned to the fact that it will.

I got my "Adult" hunting license fifty one years ago and have held annual licenses and tags every year since. I think I have eleven big game tags in my folder from last season, black bear being the only duplicate. I am a hunter to the core of my being.

As has been noted many times, hunters make up a very small portion of the population. Of that small portion, many of those are small "h" hunters who just go out casually and infrequently. They are often the ones that don't give a sh!t if other hunts get closed down, like bears, cougars and wolves. They are secure (even smug) in their believe that nobody is coming after them. Don't count on them to save you.

Then you have the newly recruiting hunters. Sometimes called hipster hunters or socially aware hunters. I call them podcast hunters, inspired by the Joe Rogans/Meateater guys. Know where your food comes from. But they are not hunters at heart! They are intellectual hunters, satisfying the mind. They THINK killing a deer and eating it is fulfilling. They feel the hunt cerebrally and will likely move on when another world view takes over. Don't count on them to save you.

For many of us it is different. Hunting is visceral rather than cerebral, it comes from deep within, without conscious prodding. We don't need to rationalize it, it just is. it drives us, beyond all reasoning, to go and do and to suffer through all the things we do. We may well ask ourselves, after sweating to the top of some mountain only to sit in the rain, cold, fog or desolate lone'ness, "why the hell do I do this!?" But no answer is needed or really expected. It comes from within!

Many of us have inborn traits, like a field bred bird dog that has lived its whole life in the city. Take him to the park and he hunt's! It's in his DNA and can't be denied. But most of us here on Bowsite though, have followed our natural instincts for all our lives.

Those hunters could save you. But they are too few.

We had an arson at a mansion that had plenty of tasteful mounts cause it was featured in the local paper, same type of idiots let a bunch of medical research animals stolen and let go in a farmer's field (they died), firebombing of a non-GMO research facility- they bombed the wrong building, the list goes on and on. The pics about those issues where not graphic enough. Its an easy choicefor the general public once they know the truth, however blood n guts, animals in unnatural positions, with dirt grime, etc. are just bad pics. Sure my kid was dressed up like vampirila one Halloween and posed with a deer I was in the process of butchering-but it didn't belong all over the internet. With the red-eye on the flash sure scared her friends though...

At least that would make some of you feel better....the cat is still dead and she is still a happy hunter.

While there is plenty of dissent on this subject it seems we can all agree on one thing. The general public has NO place in making wildlife management decisions. The logical thing to do is work towards changing that. I know it's impossible right. Let's just continue to tear at each other and appease the antis might not be effective but it's easy and you can claim the "high ground" while doing it.

When my nonhunting neighbors, who totally approve of hunting for food and population management, have been bombarded by two months of nonstop TV ads showing bloody, grinning fat guys holding dead cougars, and video clips of terrified treed cats unable to escape a pack of snarling GPS collared dogs while hunters and guides are laughing and hugging and high-fiving, and CPW people saying, "We really don't know how many mountain lions we have", and pictures of orphaned cubs, and they're looking at that ballot and asking their heart whether to circle the Y or the N, which letter to you you suppose they'll circle?

Meanwhile, we hunters have no money to produce slick Hollywood counter-ads and buy prime time ad space on every local TV channel because we aren't funded by huge national organizations with millions in the bank. And our primary defense is "Please defeat this initiative because a few hunters are passionate about shooting mountain lions out of trees"?

That is why the image we portray to the general public matters. Facebook has done more to damage the future of hunting than anything the entire antihunting movement has accomplished in the past ten years.

That is not only never going to happen, it's just wrong. Hunters don't have a monopoly on wildlife that, legally, belongs to everyone. And everyone has a stake in managing them. You can't fix stupid with force. It takes education. And that takes tact, understanding, persuasion, and judgement on our part. We are never going to make the antis happy and shouldn't even try. But we need to not send non-hunters into their camp by appearing to be crass, unfeeling, bloodthirsty brutes. It NOT how YOU feel about those photos, it's HOW they feel about them. You can scream all the way to the ballot box about how dumb they are and how right we are, ensuring we loose. That's the quickest way to end hunting. Sometimes I wonder who's side some of you are on. Or how important hunting is to you if you're not even willing to exercise a little common sense and restraint when portraying hunting to non-hunters. What does that cost you?

On second thought, I like that idea generally. It irks me to no end that in any election, someone's vote who is as dumb as a rock counts just as much as an intelligent, educated person's vote. Maybe we should change that.

In BC we lost the grizzly hunt because our government simply looked at votes and calculated more gain then loss. No ballot, no consultation, no question. The premier simply announced that “... the grizzly hunt is no longer socially acceptable and that trumps science...”

Go ahead and believe that you will be allowed to just carry on. And if you are an eastern whitetail/turkey hunter, you will be the last one to fall, but you will fall. Not sure how many deer you will see with your head that far in the sand, but it’s great camo.

Why pretend that what was in that picture is not what actually happens? Why hide the fact that when you kill an animal there is blood all over the place....a arrow kills by blood loss and hemorrage....wake up.

If YOU are offended by what we do then by all means please stop....we really don`t need you on our side.

Face it....you take another living creatures life for your ENJOYMENT. You don`t need to do this...you`re not a pioneer or pilgrim that needs to hunt for food. You ENJOY it. You by all means are a "barbarian". You can put the clown costume on like John Gacy did in an attempt to hide the fact but you kill for enjoyment. Embrace it.

You that are offended are what the anti`s are looking for. You are the "weak ones in the herd"....the ones that can be easily be picked off. Just like what the Puma looks for.

YOU are the weak link in our defense. If the facts offend you then by all means avoid them.

Oh wait.. Never mind... The people we don't care about offending voted to outlaw it by a huge margin.

Weren`t some of you the very same guys that said the caribou video of the DIY hunt in Alaska was....."excellent….great...thanks great video". Were the caribou was shot with a hail Mary at 75 yards because there was "no migration"....then the animal ran around the tundra looking like a pin cushion. You weren`t offended by that.

Seems like you are selectively "offended".

Before that campaign, nobody cared about bear hunting here except a small percentage of people who are anti, or pro hunting. Everybody else was, like, "So what?" But once all our neighbors were saturated with the worst of what we do every day and night for two months, 70% of them made up their minds.

How nonhunters view us DOES matter. They control our future, and if you can't grasp that concept then hunters like you are not only crazy, but dangerous.

That said, I absolutely see Tim’s and other’s points and can’t say that I haven’t rethought how I feel on this.

I just don’t think you guys comprehend the game that’s being played in blue referendum states. Hunting is perched on a cliff. You might think differently if you had more skin in the game and pictures like this didn’t directly threaten hunting in your backyard via your neighbors.

Franklin, answer these questions to show you have the intelligence or at least understanding to not be "embarrassing as a man". Have you ever had sex? Do you have kids? If yes to either, are you ashamed of that, or embarrassed by that, or apologetic about it? Do you have photos, or art work in your living room, or displayed anywhere, graphically displaying the that sexual activity, or how you conceived your kid(s)? If not, why not? By your reasoning, THAT should be much less objectionable, since it's a universally accepted activity and nobody is trying to take it away.

You folks have swallowed the bait....you believe not showing these pictures actually have an effect on how anti`s perceive hunting. By you giving the "inch" is what is screwing us all. Jaq should understand this out of all of us as his state is turning into California. And it all started by letting this "poison" creep into their politics and liberal society inch by inch. Photos had ZERO to do with this. But you keep believing it does...lol

Why do you think the NRA gives absolutely no ground....because they understand that you can`t. Tucking your tail and running is no way to fight and win a battle. And that`s what you are doing by falling for this nonsense.

We.....I use that term loosely.... have become a bunch of woosified snowflakes.

Why do you think the NRA gives absolutely no ground....because they understand that you can`t. Tucking your tail and running is no way to fight and win a battle. And that`s what you are doing by falling for this nonsense.

We.....I use that term loosely.... have become a bunch of woosified snowflakes.

Try as I might, I don't understand your logic. I could be a tough guy and beat the hell out of everybody in my neighborhood except maybe one guy around the corner, and we would still get crushed at the voting booth when distasteful photos and videos are shoved in people's faces.

The only "nonsense we're allowing" is to tolerate some hunters putting ugly things (to nonhunting voters) out there in the viral internet world. If you could care less, then you are part of the problem and not helping our cause.

The NRA isn't a good example because there are five times as many gun owners as hunters, a thousand times as many gun owners as lion and bear hunters, the NRA has six million members and millions of dollars to work with, and they're still getting their asses kicked in many places.

We can't win our way of life with our small percentage of the population with just facts and science, no matter how logical that sounds to us. We NEED friends, non-hunting friends, or at least fewer enemies be successful. I don't see us winning ANY of those friends with your approach.

You guys trying to frame it as left vs. right are way off base with no facts or data to support your position.

What is wrong with people on this site PMing people because they don`t like their opinion.

Jaq....the point is as you stated....it doesn`t matter. Things are the way they are and a picture of a bloody dead animal means absolutely nothing. So they win again by getting hunters arguing with hunters. Exactly what they want. It`s comical.

Not to mention that the 2nd Amendment enumerated our right to bear arms whereas hunting has no such Constitutional protection. Ergo, the comparison is not a valid one.

"When asked to characterize reasons to hunt as either acceptable or unacceptable, 87% of respondents agreed with hunting to obtain food which is the most widely accepted reason included in the survey. The next most acceptable reasons to hunt were for wildlife population control with 72% of respondents selecting agree, followed by 66% that agreed with hunting to reduce a predator population. Sixty-three percent of respondents agreed with hunting to control crop damage. However, only 37% of respondents agreed with trophy hunting being acceptable."

This is why hunting, in general, is safe for now. Interesting that a majority are ok with predator control, but not "trophy hunting" for those same predators. Incongruous? You bet. But that's what happens when an issue is framed from emotion vs logic.

The relatively small LGBTQ community has been successful in advancing their agenda with a lot of “in your face” activities and campaigns.

Perhaps hunters should take a page from their playbook and go on offense.

Create campaigns mocking the Marie Antoinette Urban Elitist for their “privilege” as they pull their meat off of styrofoam and prattle on in a condescending fashion about self reliant hunters. Attack them for their ethnocentric views of the culture of hunting... that is practiced by people of color all across the planet.

Call them out for the racist, xenophobic, intolerant, culturally insensitive, global food mongers they are.

Point out that Cougars and Bears are 100% Natural, Free-Range, Sustainable, Organic, Hormone and Antibiotic Free, Loco-Vore table fare. And Tasty!

That they are nothing more than silly twits with no real understanding of nature and are hatefully looking to culturally oppress others.

They should just leave we’ll enough alone and stay in their condos with their twelve cats and stop proselytizing in our direction. They should simply think about us, and everywhere without sidewalks as though it’s the North Sentinel Island and we’re the Sentinelese. Watch out for flying arrows and spears!

You are making my (and many others') point except it's not the minds of actual hunters the antis care about changing, it's the neutral non-hunters. And they do it targeting their EMOTIONS. The antis don't want those non-hunters to have a better understanding because the facts that we hunters know very well won't win those non-hunters over to the anti side.

We have NO ONE ON OUR SIDE, that's why the court of public opinion is so important...I think that's what Jaq , Ziek and others are trying to say...and I think they are more right than wrong.

The libs OWN THE MEDIA, and take everything out of context when and where they wish and spoon feed it to the emotional soccer moms. Just don't give them the ammo to shoot us with , is the point....no hunter on here is offended, they are worried that the PUBLIC will be offended and react.

That being said we need to start educating our kids in school, that HUNTING IS COOL!

But maybe when she grows up some and realizes that being "liked" on Facebook is not all that important. And then posing with her prize and then presenting herself with bloody hands and clothing, was not the best way to represent hunters in today's society. The days of strapping on the dead animal onto the cars/trucks "fender" or over the "hood" are gone. Facebook and other social media might be the fender/hood of today and those using them to display killed animals should follow the example above.

What is interesting, is that I examined many of the Bowsite gallery photos of big game harvests, and almost all, were posed and shown without any blood on them. So many of you are sensitive to the fact and believe that presenting a photo of a killed animal in the correct way is very important, Facebook or not.

My best, Paul

Or how about the "Recent Kill Photo & Report".....where the guy is standing with the bloody pig hanging upside down taken at one of the sponsors property....that`s got to go too.

If anybody wanted to attack hunting using hunters own photos, videos and words, it's all right here.... on this very site that obviously some think we should close. We get trolls ALL the time over on the CF who have found us in searches using very general terms. It's no harder than typing a couple words. They even take the time and effort and sign up to comment.

They could download trapping pics, skinning/gutting/meat cutting pics, polar bear pics, lion (both African and NA) elk clips bleeding like a garden hose, even coyotes with half their heads blown off by the site OWNER. Any and all manner of hunting pics you can think of. If pics and videos aren't bloody enough.... we have CONTESTS using BLOOD TRAILS for cryin' out loud. But that girl is the reason hunting is in danger.....

So, what are you going to do? You think we should stop sharing pics? Maybe write some flowery poetry on how wonderful nature is and how we don't kill stuff anymore to appease someone.... and if we do accidentally kill something we cry over it and hold services and aren't happy/excited about it. Or this one is better yet.... how WE do it so much more, um, better? How sad...... no honestly...... it's flippin' sad to think that's what hunters and hunting has come to.....

Anti's need to be EXPOSED to the "general public" as the psychos they are. Explain all things must die if you are to eat. Hunters simply take their rightful place in nature as all creatures do, as man has done from the dawn of time. It's a rich and honorable heritage to take a healthy part in feeding your own. The only names needed to use are "uninformed" "misled" and other such terms to expose their lack of knowledge on the subject. But they need to be used. Explain how proven science sets allotments as to what is harvested (I personally hate the snowflake word "harvest", but it has it uses when the things need to be melted...) , when, and how. Or not. Then tie in the monetary support for not only wildlife but for rural local communities. It's a pretty easy debate to win in all honesty. The "neutrals" aren't in the debate..... they're doing what fence sitters do, sitting and watching. If you make a logical factual case and the psychos blow up..... you win.

If a person is advocating to be more selective, "tasteful" etc in the future.....fine. That was not the tone i got from it. Not at all. All I pretty much saw was an attack on a young girl ...... a fellow hunter, stoked to have had a great hunt and wanting to show it to her friends and family..... now suddenly SHE'S the reason we are going to have hunting banned? She's been dragged over the coals and now "fellow hunters" take up the stick.....

IMO right is right. Leaving her swingin' taking shots at her is not right. Crawling under a rock and hiding is not right. Support for fellow hunters, even if HOW they hunt "isn't hunting" to you ..... defending your way of life..... IMO is right.

I swear we’re related!

A feel good measure at best. Very easy to just limit the ways and means to hunt. If the general public decides archery is inhumane, ban archery hunting. Limit tags such that they cost $25,000 each, because the ecosystem is doing just fine without hunting and it just priced most people out.

Notice how the anti's are in no hurry, no broad brush , and they push their agendas in insidious ways. Close a road here, build a park there. Add some buffalo here, a wolf there, plant a locally endangered species on this mountain. They are coming from all angles, taking a little at a time in ways most hunters fail to realize. We will not win, but still no sense helping them acheive their goals. This thread proves how little most hunters actually are involved, and when they are it oftentimes is in a negative and very unintelligent fashion. Some sound like intoxicated bullies, EXACTLY like the anti's want us to look and act. We become a much easier target when we act like ignorant killers, which some here seem to be.

For all those guys advocating we stay off Social Media because it’s either the Devil or Dominated by Anti’s, that brilliant! Let’s let the youth (who are addicted to Social Media) hear only one message, not ours!! If you can’t manage to put up something positive on it, yeah stay off, but criticizing those who do?

Don’t get me wrong, I love the fact that we don’t all agree, after all this isn’t the Democratic Party. Being surrounded with guys with common goals and different paths of achievement is amazing. That being said, if some ideas seem to be working better than others, you might want to listen. I’m blessed that in Louisiana the Cajun culture is so strong and includes hunting as part of that, we’ve been able to fend off those coming into our state, attempting to change us. But we don’t take it for granted and push pro hunting at every chance we get.

Make it Mainstream or risk losing it FOREVER!

I am not a troll, but tend to think in the greater picture, beyond what may be happening on the back 40,... in my town.

An article from last August that explains the background.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ballot-measure-on-right-to-hunt-and-fish-becomes-political-flashpoint

·Published August 27

Ballot measure on right to hunt and fish becomes political flashpoint

Voters in North Carolina will be asked this November whether or not the right to hunt, fish and harvest wildlife should be enshrined in their state’s constitution.

The ballot measure, which easily passed through the Republican-controlled state Senate in June in a 44-4 vote, has become an unexpectedly divisive issue in North Carolina. Supporters argue the amendment would protect certain hunting practices, but opponents claim it's little more than a ploy to draw Republican voters to the polls.

If it passes in November, the measure would not change state hunting regulations or modify any existing provisions in state law. But it would – particularly the language protecting “the right to use traditional methods, to hunt, fish and harvest wildlife” – help ward off any legal challenges to certain hunting methods and the hunting of certain animals.

The bill’s sponsors say that with North Carolina’s changing demographics and a population shift to cities like Charlotte and Raleigh, they worry anti-gun and animal rights activists could impinge on the rights of hunters and fishers.

“This change creates a situation that in the future could bring conflict between those who enjoy hunting and fishing and those who don’t,” North Carolina state Sen. Norman Sanderson, who co-sponsored the bill to have the measure put on the ballot, told Fox News. “We don’t want the rights of hunters and fishers to be infringed upon.”

In a message to the state Senate Agriculture/Environment/Natural Resources Committee, John Culclasure, the coordinator of the Congressional Sportsmen's Foundation, said the amendment would act to preemptively halt restrictions like those for bear hunting in Maine and dove hunting in Michigan.

“Constitutionally safeguarding the right to hunt, fish, and harvest wildlife is critical to the future of North Carolina’s outdoor heritage,” Culclasure said.

Many Democratic lawmakers in Raleigh, however, argue that there is currently no push in North Carolina to restrict any type of hunting and fishing and that the ballot measure is simply about Republicans playing politics ahead of the hard-fought midterm elections.

“There are no threats to the right to hunt and fish in North Carolina,” state Sen. Floyd McKissick told Fox News. “This is just a move by Republican lawmakers to motivate their base to go the polls on Election Day because they’re worried they are at risk of losing power.”

McKissick pointed to three other measures slated to be on the upcoming ballot in the Tar Heel State – a voter ID requirement, an amendment on judicial seats and a measure to make the legislature responsible for appointments to state commissions – as similar attempts by Republican lawmakers to increase turnout among conservative voters.

While Sanderson admitted that “anything I can do to increase voter turnout is a good thing,” he brushed off the idea that this, and other ballot measures in the state, are just a way to increase Republican turnout.

“I’ve enjoyed hunting and fishing since I was six years old and I don’t want to have that threatened,” he said. “Having this in the state’s constitution would mean it would need to be taken into consideration every time someone wants to take a rifle out of the hand of a hunter.”

Glad we agree on something!

Again I’m not encouraging “in your face” or bloody photo interaction, but honest and frequent interaction with those who choose not to hunt or on the fence about hunting. When something comes out that can potentially hurt our cause, get on top it it, early! Poachers are not hunters, that message needs to be strong! Bloody pics by a young FEMALE hunter are going to happen, use it as a chance to explain without degrading her. Get active in your local elections, instead of writing a check to a candidate, through a meet and greet, of coarse cook you game! In fact cook the coveted Elk Backstrap or Dall Sheep hind-quarter you were saving for Christmas Day! Submit tasteful articles to local magazines. When engaged by Anti’s, keep you cool, they won’t.

Hunters FOR hunters is what I say.

Most here are really saying the same thing in different words. Pretty much everyone agrees that being "loud and proud" is the answer, but the big thing is discretion. Bigpizzaman is also saying this. Stand up for what you believe, and do it tastefully. THAT is how you win people over. The only thing Tim has said, is that once people put something damaging out there to get on top of it. Makes sense. We're all in it together, and there is no denying that we can win people over. We've all done it.

It's very difficult to win people over by showing them the images that give them a knee-jerk reaction. Ex) I've taken my father-in-law from completely undecided non-hunter to killing his first deer last year. It didn't start with me walking in and showing him a video of a spine-shot fawn bawling. Frankling would suggest I show him that because it's real hunting. That's retarded. It started with meat, then tasteful photos, tasteful videos etc. It's a slow process. Once you're conditioned to that you can go all in.

Today isn't 50 years ago and it never will be. Just because people put deer on the hoods of cars back then doesn't mean it's always the right thing. If YOUR generation is so proud of those moments, how did YOU let us get to where we are today??? The "30 and unders" didn't create the $hitstorm we live in. It was you, you the generation that lived in the "golden years." So consider that for a minute. You created the world we live in. Maybe everything you did wasn't so perfect after all.

Putting that aside you can't pretend we don't live in the world we live in. Personally I've actually seen a much larger shift in people's acceptance to hunting thanks in large part to the organic movement. Thanks to the yuppies if you can believe it or not. But that advancement has been due to 100% tasteful presentation of hunting, not a picture of bloody hands, raw-raw attitude. If you honestly try and think about what we do from a non-hunters point of view, with the way people have been conditioned to think today, you can't deny that it seems weird to kill something and put it's head on your wall. FROM A NON-HUNTERS POINT OF VIEW. Walking into a large trophy room with 30-40 heads on the wall. I like it just as much or more then the next guy, but if you can't get out of your own head and think about how other people see things, than you really really shouldn't be the voice promoting what we do.

Hunters have nibbled around the edges for too long and have lost ground. What happened to your grizzly hunt in BC....do you think it stops there? You`re in a war and don`t realize it.

This thread could be used as fodder by those that don`t see our side of things. This is the world wide web and this behavior by hunters against another hunter is ridiculous.

You keep thinking it`s about a bloody photo though.

It got shut down by the those folks you're telling us to ignore! That's right, soccer mom's!! And, no, they are not done 'cause they've already declared ALL bear hunting as the dreaded Trophy Hunt!

I just heard a very successful, very wise and very seasoned political advisor make this statement: "The best way to bury bad news is with good news."

In a nutshell. I believe that is what many are saying. I have many non hunting friends and it's usually the wives that ask the hardest questions. I had a group over and of course there's a row of bear skulls that gets noticed and questioned. The one lady asked why I would kill bears. I very bluntly, but politely told her that they kill approximately fifty percent of our moose calves in the first six weeks of their life, grabbing many of them while the cow is desperately spinning in circles as the calf hangs from her uterus. I added that the boars kill cubs as well. She thought for a little more than five seconds then said, "You should be allowed to kill more.".

The infamous Jane Goodall is quoted as saying in regards to wildlife, "You will never convince people in their intellect, you must appeal to their emotion.".

This is a losing strategy and it`s not serving the hunting community well. That is my point and the facts support it.

Sportsmen in non-green states need to be electing hunter friendly legislators and working toward getting supportive people in wildlife positions. Green states need to hold firm and retain what they have. The war will never be over.

And California, hopefully you can hang on to fishing !!

It's no different than the strap at school or spanking your kids in the grocery store. Right or wrong, beneficial to society or not, your "private business" notwithstanding the decision will be taken from you.

I don't like it or agree with it, but I have to accept it. You can rant all you want, but it ain't worth the spit flying from your mouth.

You like quotes....Einstein is credited with saying...."Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result".

You are correct....it does start with the little things....trapping...predators....small game. Then while you are snoozing the big bomb drops.

This is not an argument....this is a discussion. We have to reevaluate what we are doing and it should be discussed because we are in danger of losing more and more opportunities.

Them sum beeches will start voting for us now, dammit! If not, we will throw more guts until they understand hunting is good! Best to change my tactics, throw more blood and guts in front of them until they think like I do. Those bsterds,... burp, belch!!!

We had a "Franklin" as one of the public faces on our side during the bear campaign. He pounded on the podium in front of the Capitol in a televised speech and dared anyone to take away our "rights". We pay the bills and nobody is going to tell us how to hunt. We won't compromise. Bear hunting is our God given right. On and on. No quarter. We will never give in.

That worked.

We didn't appease anybody, we just got outnumbered and had our asses handed to us. No discussion, no "let's talk", no science. It really is that simple.

Unless someone has a better idea but with a couple hundred posts here I haven’t seen one!

Not a single hunter on here was attacking the hunter and if you can't see that Franklin it's a lost cause. The only thing they were "attacking" was her choice of delivery methods. It wasn't even an attack though. People were talking about how it could be done better, and smarter next time. Every one of us would stand behind her to do what we do. People have just been giving their opinions about the smarter way to advertise our love of hunting to the people that have the power to snuff us out.

You remind me of a mouse yelling at an elephant telling it what's going to be what. As a minority you can not impose your will on the majority no matter how much you believe in it. You can only win them over.

You evidently think the opposite of cowardice and appeasement is bullying. And therefore can't identify any of those traits. More enlightened minds know better. It takes more courage, effort, and intelligence to try to solve this problem than you obviously possess. But at least you were honest about your lack of knowledge and experience in dealing with this issue; living where you do, surrounded by like minded people, instead of in the middle of the jackal's den.

"our circle"

pot or kettle? It's hard to tell.....

Personally, I respectfully disagree. I will NEVER accept it. We have to have a leader for our cause with a cool, thinking head to head up our ranks though. To be the voice. Maybe a few hot heads mixed in occasionally, within our confines (not going public), to ramp up the enthusiasm and instigate the pep rally, but what we need to do is NEVER accept it. Think Wayne LaPierre. We need to stick together here and organize, figure out what's right, gather the tools and strategy for success, market our intent, and then put the fight to 'them' in an organized and orderly, direct and serious fashion, not caving but not going ballistic and destroying our credibility. We need a leader to guide this fight, and we all need to believe we can succeed, because when you don't believe, you do not. And I am not in fantasy land, I know it can be done. We can keep our hunts, trapping, and weapons and ammo with organized, smart leadership and a level head. There are way too many nay-sayers on here and that is what will upend our game. You guys know we can prevent losing more hunts...if you are willing to put up a buck and your quality time. WE HAVE THE WEAPONS AND THE HUNTS NOW, not them. Are you going to give them up? it is a helluva lot easier to KEEP something than it is to GET something from someone else. NO ONE should ever get what we already have. Period. I'm not trying to sound tough. But it will be a tough fight, which makes it all that much more worth fighting for. The difference between 'them' and 'us'? We have something worth fighting for. They have nothing. They have a meaningless agenda with no true basis. I hope you guys who have conceded can keep some recent examples of bigtime success in your mind and use that as motivation. Think the 2016 presidency, and the 2016 SB, for starters. Remember the number of Dem challengers who lost? Who would have in their wildest dreams thought Trump would come away victorious in July 2016? Remember the score? 28 - 3. Who won? Who would have thought the Falcons would relinquish that lead in the 4th quarter. We don't have to ever lose another hunt, another animal, another trapping, bear season, cat season. Not if we stick together and fight. I don't care what anyone here says to the contrary. I have seen real success far more than just these two obvious examples. Change your attitude is all I can say. I for one am not giving up anything. I have fought too hard so far to keep it. Not going backwards now.

https://ballotpedia.org/Maine_Bear_Hunting_Ban_Initiative,_Question_1_(2014)

The opposition has successfully framed and branded the trophy hunting issue because they control the left media, and they have the money. They also know it's a winner for them because they've lost the "hunting for food" battle.

Honest discussion here... Nobody is hunting bears, cougars, lions, or wolves for food. Some may eat bears or cougars but thats not why we hunt them. We hunt them because we enjoy the challenge of the hunt. And it's that perceived enjoyment and gloating over the killing of something we don't eat, but only hang on the wall, that offends our neighbors who otherwise have no issues with what we do.

The bloody, grinning viral (that's the key word, fellas) social media posts only serve to reinforce that perception. Bowsite posts don't instantly go viral like FB and Instagram.

Ok, so national polls show we need to turn the conversation away from "trophy hunting" and into "predator control". This is where it becomes difficult with the soccer moms and golf dads we need. We can quote all sorts of statistics about how many deer they kill, whatever, but until they start having an impact on endangered species, the emotion will always be that they were here first and entitled to their share of game. The media reinforces that constantly.

So what is the answer? I don't know. What James and the folks did in Maine is a good starting point. But I do know each of us can do our part by positively influencing the perception of our nonhunting friends and neighbors. And if they respect us as individuals, they are more likely to listen to our point of view when the time comes for them to make a decision.

A tiny minority of us swayed 31% to our side during pur bear battle, with no money and no media support. 20% more and we would have won the election.

What I can tell you is my experience here in BC where we did lose a hunt and face more losses. The largest and most active hunting forum in BC is full of speeches about unity and fighting the good fight. The constant pissing and moaning, hand wringing and Franklin'ing is relentless and loud. Everybody is gonna get some shit done!!! They just need a vehicle, a driver, a leader, an org!!

But then there is a group, a vehicle already in the driveway that volunteers to hit the road and only needs money for fuel. Crickets. After some more rousing calls to unity, a couple of little chirps, then more silence. Meanwhile you have another thread with several thousand views and hundreds of comments on how the snowflakes are dumber than seal shit. Some mumble about not everybody's got twenty five bucks or one hour a week to spare.

Yup, somebody's got to do something about this! Just nobody knows who that somebody is or wants to be that somebody themselves.

Like I said, I don't like it, but I accept it. Not as in rolling over and whimpering, but as in "huh, I can only shoot two bears now instead of the five I could shoot before". So in a few months I will go out and have a fun time shooting the two bears I'm allowed to shoot.

If talk was action, there would be a good fight. But it's not.

Most of my neighbors are non-hunters, and yet I have permission to hunt on many of their properties. I didn't get that permission by being confrontational, and demanding. I got it by being a good neighbor, a leader in our community, and respecting those that don't give me permission to hunt. I even have a neighbor that's a PETA member. She doesn't let me hunt, but I do have permission to hike on her property. I even enjoy confounding her occasionally, like the time I stopped my truck right in front of her on the way to work in my uniform, to remove a bull snake sunning on the dusty road, so it wouldn't be run over. She said "I can't believe you would do that." Well, I do that all the time. I may not have changed her view of hunting, but I made her think a little differently about hunters.

Someone on here said something to the effect that we all do our kill dance. Well I don't. Killing is the least enjoyable part of the hunt to me. Yes, I'm happy to have been successful, and I'm glad to have provided food for us. I try to do it as effectively, quickly, and painlessly as possible. But I don't enjoy killing. I accept it as a necessary and vital part of living, a requirement, not just of the hunt, but of life. It is an intrinsic part of nature that I share with every living creature. Maybe it should be celebrated, but it should also be tempered by the fact that another creature died so I could live. A fact of life for everyone, whether they kill for themselves, hire someone else to do it, or just take up space while displacing wildlife. If we could convey that reality to non-hunters, instead of what the fist pumping, "smoked him" video morons convey, maybe we wouldn't be worrying about losing more opportunities.

The way forward is to swell the ranks. Guess which group is one of the fastest growing groups of hunters. I know your afraid to say so I will.....WOMEN.

So how do we reward this young woman hunter for her bravery for not only hunting the lion but not being ashamed to post it on her Facebook page. We drink the same Kool Aid the drama queens on social media do and we BASH HER.

On arguably the most prominent bowhunting website on the internet. How embarrassing.

I stand with hunters....not the Kool Aid drinking lemming "soccer moms and dad golfers" on the left. Sorry.

I haven't given up on hunting. But I have given up on ninety five percent of hunters. Sometimes you just have to realize that it's more work beating the horse than it is just walking.

Where were the NRA and RMEF during our bear campaign? Crickets. Trophy hunting is a state by state (or province) issue. These national organizations have shown very interest in defending trophy hunting at the state level.

I stand with voters, whether they hunt or not. Sorry.

No on is hiding their passion for hunting, or advocating it!!

I agree with (almost) everyone on here, including BPM, who say we should engage non-hunters in a positive way - absolutely!!

No one here is advocating that we not post pictures of our kills!!

Must of us are simply saying that we should, as a hunting community, be smart about what we're doing - who would argue with that...?

My last, and most important point, is that I see a bit of a leadership void in the hunting community when it comes to our public image. Most, not all, of the "celebrity" hunters are simply buffoons who don't have a clue on how to engage the greater public, for our, and our wildlife's future well-being.

I probably have more questions than answers and I feel a little inadequate when it comes to large-scale solutions. But, I can promise my brethren one thing: I will do the best I can at promoting hunting, and the outdoor hunting conservation lifestyle, to help insure the future of wildlife and the hunting tradition.

Good thread fellas. Let's change some minds!

How ignorant can you be? This isn't about winners and losers, offense and defense. It's not even a battle between hunters and anti-hunters, unless you're short-sighted enough to make it that. Ultimately, it's about making the most friends within the largest majority of voters - non-hunters. Do businesses expand by bullying people into buying their products, or demanding them to buy them, or by insulting them, or by upsetting them in any way? We CAN'T beat them into submission!

About the photo: Honestly, her ridiculous fingernails were the first thing I noticed even before the blood. Seems to me that was the whole point behind that pose.

And by the way, my wife has been hunting since long before it started becoming notable.

I'd try a cat, hear they're good eating. But I've taken a bucket of yotes and don't eat them either. I kill lots of pests I don't eat. There's more than a few trapping threads here most years, doubt those animals are on the menu. But we have hunters who would bash them because they aren't eating them?

I think she was happy and wanted to share with her friends and family. I'd bet money this "viral" thing wasn't on her radar. Honestly think that picture wasn't "showing off" the blood on her hands, mostly just realizing how "dirty" her hands were, the way she was holding them. Seen plenty of ladies with the same look when they get dirty. Now due to some morons and idiots she has to deal with this.

Again,this young lady may have made an error in judgement..... but did nothing really wrong. It's a sad..... frustrating.... thing to me that the ones actually responsible get to go on about their business, feeling like they are some social heroes before they chow down on their hamburger or climb into mommy's leather seats in her car.....

I can't tell if this is a real question or not, but if it is it is because the anti's selectively do a better job swaying the 80% in the middle.

To most nonhunters, this is "trophy hunting", which the huge majority of nonhunters disapprove of. And to most of them, there's no difference between this African lion and the Colorado lion in the OP's post.

In Colorado they legalized smoking weed and just elected an openly gay Governor....in New York they passed a law allowing doctors to kill a baby AFTER it`s been born.

And these are the people you think you are going to win over.....LMAO Talk about being out of touch with reality.

If anything we should blowing up social media with 1000`s of pics....DAILY. Until hunting becomes a normal staple in everyone`s lives. Ask any PR agency or marketing firm and they would tell you the same thing. Why do you think the left controls the messaging on our media....because they control the media!!!

Running and hiding borders on idiotic.

Nearly every human endeavour has “winners” and those “wins” are celebrated. Doesn’t matter if it’s a test passed, a promotion at work, a first date, a game win or a double on chukars. It’s one of the things that sets us apart from the rest of living creatures.

We should recognize the difference between gloating and appreciating an accomplishment, but there is nothing to gain by ignoring it.

How many people would be playing or watching sports if there was no scoreboard?

Then come back on here and explain your position again. We will be waiting.

PA, educating might be better than policing, at least for those that can be educated. I also don't know why some are trying to make this into more than what it is. This has nothing to do with the Blood Trail Challenge. I have never looked at it, so this may not be accurate. I would think that it's intent is educational. It's on a hunting site, that is accessible to the public, but not directed at them. And the blood depicted is necessary, not gratuitous, nor callously used.

I like Franklin's idea...for Franklin. ;-)

But, if I post on Facebook/Instagram, I always work it over on Photoshop and get the blood down to a minimum...that's just how I roll. If I'm throwing it out there for the whole World to see, I want to present it in the most "positive light" possible.

Unfortunately, Women are being singled out by the Antis.

I also don’t think the above giraffe and lion pics are all bad for hunting. You can bet that more people became aware of how African’s benefit from paid hunting. It’s all about participating in and controlling the narrative.

Rather than trying to appease by siding with antis, take the time to post true facts. Sensible people respond well to sensible presentations. Rather than trying to gain acceptance by stating “ ... well I’m a hunter too, and even I don’t like that..”, explain what the pic represents.

I find that most common people do have common sense.

The anti`s are far better at the messaging and waging the fight than our side. This is why we need a change in our tactics.

Your Photoshop point is irrelevant. Anybody can do something bad or dishonest to someone else that’s true what we’re talking about here is let’s at least not do bad things to ourselves as hunters we do control that

Good to know...

You are posting on FB for YOUR hunting rights and future ability to hunt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Use educated thoughts and educational ideas on hunting and predator management

I have, but answer this why don’t you put your name in your profile or perhaps even a picture? Before you ask what others have done, what have you done and who are you?

just because you can does not mean you should!

There are consequences to actions regardless of if one has the right to do something or not. Having a right does not make it consequence fee.,

On one hand, we have the school of thought that is professing, "EFF them! it is my right to hunt, blood and guts are AWESOME! I hung the cock and balls of my last deer from the rear view mirror of my jacked up F350 with the rubber balls hanging off the trailer hitch and the Union Jack and Primos sticker in the window! The gays won by marching in the St. Pattys day parade wearing clear plastic wrap dresses and holding hands.....SO CAN WE!!!"

No, we can't. Bad analogy.

disclaimer: The redneck stuff was an attempt at humor, I love ya Tim!

In reality, NJ hunting legislation, like Colorado apparently, is decided on by opinions other than those of qualified wildlife managers, hunter and hunter friendly organizations and voting hunters. We are over run with bears in this state. Our bears are so brazen and conditioned to life in suburbia that they don't even wait for Mrs. Gaglione to put the pie on the windowsill to cool, they just walk into the house, open the stove and take it! And then look at Mama G as if to say....WHAT, you gotta problem?? They can unscrew the tops of "bear proof" containers like Shug opening a jar of peanut butter. YET!! Our current governor was elected in large part on a platform of promising NJ voters that if elected, he would STOP the bear hunt! And soon after being electd, he did just that. Science, practicality, public risk and leastly, (IMO), hunters rights, traditions, money, work and voting power be damned.

Just because we love the old ways doesn't mean we cant adjust how we present ourselves to the public to preserve what we love. The old days also included slaves, 80 hour standard work weeks, segregation and menstruation sheds. LOL! Go voice your undying support for any of those causes. I know, none are valid, nor intended analogies. Just attempting to illustrate that time and perceptions DO change and we need to be cognizant of that in our little corner of the world.

Has anyone logically answered Lous' question??

Unless we think that we can reach most of the non-hunting voters and reclaim that narrative, it's probably best to not post photos like these for 'the world' IMO.

Shirking away for fear of what people that you will never reach isn`t the answer either.

You residents that live in these areas like NJ and Colorado screwed yourselves. You allowed this liberal mindset to slowly creep into your states society while you sat on your hands.

That is our #1 point.....we are not going to sit on our hands like you folks did and then throw your hands in the air when the bomb drops. Playing defense like a hockey goalie is not going to work....because eventually a couple of pucks are going to get through.

Lou mentioned it wasn`t a "Democrat vs Republican" issue....but it really is. Liberals are not Republican....and his state has been turning bluer every year. More liberals are flocking to Colorado than ever before. When you legalize pot and elect an openly gay Governor that horse has not only left the barn....it`s in the next county.

You folks screwed yourselves and we don`t want it to happen to us. We are not going to "sit on our hands".

The overreaction by the drama queens over what was considered a pretty benign photo shows just how screwed up we are in the rank and file of hunters. Go to the "Mentoring Pics" and lets see you bash the kids in those "gross" pics....I dare you...lol

Theres a ballot initiative to ban hunting of cougars and bobcats. Polls show that the large majority of voters in your state approve of hunting for food. They don't approve of "trophy hunting".

The other side has an unlimited budget for TV ads, and support from national organizations, celebrities and the media.

Our side has virtually no money and no tangible support from any national organizations besides a pat on the back and a "Good luck, fellas".

Early polls show huge public support for the ballot issue. Parks and Wildlife can't take an official stand and can't even tell us how many cats we have.

How would you brilliant, badass tough guys proceed with a winning campaign to turn public opinion?

The popcorn is popping...

lol

Yes, Franklin....I personally allowed that mindset to creep into society. Me and the 95,000 other hunters in NJ should have done more to change the cultural, moral and political minds of the other 9 million people that live here and don't hunt. While we were at it, we also should have waged your war with the 9 million additional, non hunting folks that live within the 42 square miles of NYC. Thats just the city, not the whole state!

You say the darndest things.....but I believe you are reading comprehension challenged...Where is the word vomit emoji on here?? Pat?

I framed a real scenario that will become more common across the country. I asked for honest answers. Bring it.

Lou, With little to no resources seems like a ground campaign is your only hope. You’re not going to win on the food or it’s our right to hunt arguememt. Seems most people like fife and Fido more than their neighbors, I’d try that to some,extent. Pics and videos of pets being eaten by predators. I’d also play the hand that Coloradans are outdoors people and a safer outdoors can be enjoyed when we manage predators. Share this on message Social Media, start your own Facebook page, perhaps the young man who recently killed a Cat (with his hands) is approachable and would do an interview or short video. If you make enough noise on Social Media the mainstream press will pick up on it, it will lead to interviews\articles. Any Celebrity hunters or just Celebrties (that believe in your cause) available for a PSA?

I’ve used these tactics 3x when battling antis attempting to ruin my business(es), each time I came out on top. I didn’t engage them but allowed them to “engage” me, the non hunting community saw all they needed to see.

The media has turned the narrative on the fella who fought off the lion. The headlines and lead news stories are now that it was a "Starving, orphaned kitten"(exact words). So the sympathy is now with the poor litrle creature this brute viciously choked to death. Who doesn't love kittens?

On the other hand, true apathy among hunters is a much larger issue....

I dont

And you mention them on Bowsite and get a strong contingent of SCI sucks, SCI is a bunch of rich guys, SCI is what's wrong with hunting. SCI is high fence and crossbows... SCI aren't real hunters..... et, al. And that's from hunters who should be throwing if not money, then moral support to them.

Couple that with "hunters" like Lou's BHA buddy who tossed the CBA under the bus and apparently a strong supporter of banning predator hunting..... well, he's not alone in the ranks of "hunters".

Let me ask you this TrapperKayak, Franklin, Marty, others - have YOU sent an email to our Wildlife Commission about this current issue on the docket? That would only take a fracrion of the time you've spent attacking other hunters on this thread. Where is the "hunters sticking together" nonsense? You might want to hunt a cat in CO someday. What have YOU guys done to help us out here besides post unrealistic ideas and make false assumptions? They win here, and it gives them more momentum nationally.

You guys are making a lot of presumptions and accusations that aren't true, but then, this is the internet, where facts don't hold much sway. Everybody has "great" ideas, but when the rubber hits the road.... If the Commission rejects this petition (expected) and it gets into the election, I'll bet not one of the brilliant minds on this thread will donate a nickel to the campaign to stop it.

Post the wildlife commissions email and let’s see how many guys we can get to send them? I’ll get 20!

That`s why I used the "horse out of the barn" analogy....sorry but you are too late.

I know many that may disagree but this is EXACTLY why Trump was elected. The citizens realize our country was heading down a dangerous path. They elected the most boisterous....brazen....non-PC candidate out there. We NEEDED the preverbial "bull in a china shop" to undo what the ultraliberal Obama had done.

Trump single handidly set the liberal movement back 20 years. And he did it by proving his positions with success.....not rhetoric.

Sorry Lou....I love your state and I feel for you but this is the result of a failed strategy....and we will all suffer because of it.

Why would you choose to continue to do something that has failed? Would you do it in business....in your personal life....your family life.....no you wouldn`t. So why think it will work against the left that despises everything you stand for.

You seem to have reading comprehension problems. Maybe some cognitive difficulties. Or maybe CWD has finally made the jump to humans in Wisconsin?

Or maybe he has created a backlash that will swing the pendulum back the other way until it's off the charts.

More likely. IMO AOC doesn't happen without Trump.

Based on every national poll of nonhunters, if we had a nationwide vote to end "trophy hunting", it would pass in a landslide. Thats documented fact.

Meanwhile, I DID send the commission an email requesting they abandon an effort to ban cougar hunting in CO, just FYI.

You asked us for support.....did you support the female hunter in the pic??? No....you fellow hunters threw her under the bus in a blink of the eye. The door swings both ways.

Listen....I personally don`t think shooting a bear with popcorn, jelly donuts and maple syrup smeared all over his face is "sport" but would I ever go on a hunting site and bash other hunters that do....NEVER. Would I ever go on a trapping site and bash trappers who put marshmallows, cake frosting and Smuckers jam in their coon cuffs....NEVER.

A house divided is weak and will never stand.

Believe it or not that woman`s post on Facebook was a positive. Why do you think these women hunters are suddenly posting their kills on social media....because you may not believe it but it works.

I will bet dollars to donuts when she showed her hands with the blood on it she probably said...."look I just had my nails done and look at them now". That shows other women you can be a "girly girl".....aka "soccer mom".....and still partake in this wonderful pastime.

You want support.....then start supporting.

Thanks TK and BPM for your emails. To your question, the only substantive hunting organization in CO that I know about is the CBA, and they are currently fighting tooth and claw to push back some pending proposals that would reduce bowhunting opportunity (Thank you Grasshopper for leading this!)

BOOYAH.....we are hunting Bobcats. It can be done but you have to fight fire with fire....not baking soda.

Who the heck stands around taking pictures when a predator is attacking your pet?

But there is hope....I know in some states it seems futile but there IS hope.

In the past decade the Democrat/liberals have lost approx. 1200 seats nationwide....during Obama`s 8 years they lost 1030 of those races. The GOP/conservatives hold the majority in Governorships....State Senates and State Assemblies. We have to quit the infighting....sorry but that includes crossbows LOL...and stick together.

I guess that has been my point all along. We need change.

If we all send them a letter that is a sensible request (IE;, TO REDUCE HUMAN ENCOUNTERS, AND REDUCE PET AND WILDLIFE PREDATION) to keep lion hunting open in CO, this would go a long way (further than if we don't) to helping keep cougar hunting there. Can't hurt, that's for sure. DO IT! :)

PushCo, read the entire thread. This isn't an attack on the lady. She is just one example of how a questionable photo can go viral around the world with just a few mouse clicks, and can be used against us. Her photo is now injected into the public debate here in CO. There isn't anyone on this thread who doesn't think its cool that she killed and ate the lion. She has become an example to the anti-lion hunting faction trying to destroy our image and end it, an example to some of what they think we should do to put more bloody photos in front of the voting public, and for most of us (it seems), an example of what not to do in the new world of hyper-viral social media branding.

You think the HSUS is there to have tea?

Thursday: March 14th 7:30 Commissioners Breakfast – Bighorn Conference Room # Time AGENDA ITEM 27 8:30 (I) Dr. Mike Quartuch Human Dimensions Specialist / Researcher America’s Wildlife Values: Research Results from Colorado

28 8:45 (I) Dr. Mat Alldredge Colorado Mountain Lion Management Mammals Res./Wildlife Prgms Mark Vieira Terrestrial Biologist

29 9:00 (I) Aubyn Royall HSUS Mountain Lion Presentation CO State Director/State Affairs, HSUS

Dr.Rob Wielgus Former Director of the Large Carnivore Conservation Lab /WSU

Who will fund the campaign to save it? I hear crickets...

BTW, Mark Vieira, the state biologist testifying, is a bowhunter and definitely on our side. He lives here on the Front Range amd was involved with the lion-deer predation study. And he is on the Bowsite but he doesn't post, for obvious reasons. Pretty sure he is following this thread.

email sent Lou.

I can definitely say that folks are passionate about protecting our hunting. We may not all see eye to eye on the best way to do it. I think most folks on this thread all have the same goal, to educate the non hunter the best way we can.

Which begins with not pissing them off.

Whatever happened to using our manners to make a good first impression???