Red Wolf Hunting
General Topic
Contributors to this thread:
W8N4RUT 06-May-19
Dale06 06-May-19
Rut Nut 06-May-19
SlipShot 06-May-19
Brotsky 06-May-19
Panther Bone 06-May-19
elkstabber 06-May-19
APauls 06-May-19
W8N4RUT 06-May-19
Panther Bone 06-May-19
Ace 06-May-19
Kodiak 06-May-19
8point 06-May-19
GF 06-May-19
DL 06-May-19
elkstabber 07-May-19
Panther Bone 07-May-19
Rut Nut 07-May-19
Treeline 07-May-19
Drahthaar 11-May-19
Rut Nut 13-May-19
GF 13-May-19
WV Mountaineer 13-May-19
From: W8N4RUT
06-May-19

W8N4RUT's embedded Photo
W8N4RUT's embedded Photo
According to this article, it appears us hunters have brought the species to near extinction.

I didn't even know there was a season for these critters. Have to wonder if the zoo is spreading the false perspective or just a biased journalist...

Scott

From: Dale06
06-May-19
Don’t wonder, they are spreading anti hunting propaganda. It should have said poaching.....

From: Rut Nut
06-May-19
30 wolves in N.C.??? I find that hard to believe..................................

From: SlipShot
06-May-19
Red wolf is a cross of a gray wold and coyote. Yes they were and are in N.C. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_wolf

From: Brotsky
06-May-19
There's still 30 left, don't stop now!

06-May-19
Haha, Brotsky. Such a funny dude. I love it!

They are real. I've seen red wolves in the Smoky Mt. Nat. Park twice. That's not much considering I grew up fly-fishing those mountains (about 32yrs of experience now). The first time I saw them I was up on the right hand fork of Treemont, several miles back in catching appalachian brookies. There was three together. The second time they crossed the road on me coming out by Elkmont's entrance.

By the late 90's the park biologists realized what a disaster it was to re-introduce them. The environment has changed too much. The wolves couldn't survive the wild that they once had prior to the area being settled around. Private land holdings around the park are too much competition for critters, and the wolves eventually got out of bounds so to speak. Once calves started dying, it was bye bye. The wolf was dying off though, that was the real reason for their failure here. They couldn't live off the land/wildlife around them anymore, so they turned to private pastures and calves. Sad really. I'm totally opposed to bringing in these 150lb mammoth wolves you all have dealt with, but the red wolf could have been sustainable with wildlife around it (they got no more physicality than coyotes), it just wasn't a sustainable ecology all the way around anymore. They were really pretty dudes/dudettes too.

From: elkstabber
06-May-19

elkstabber's Link
I hope nobody minds if I inject some facts into this conversation.

There are several counties in eastern NC that don't allow any trapping or hunting of coyotes because it is too difficult for hunters to tell the red wolves from the coyotes. It is so difficult that a biologist told me that he couldn't tell a red wolf apart from a coyote if both were lying dead on the ground in front of him. The biologist said that the only way to tell a red wolf from a coyote is with a DNA test.

There is a population of them in Alligator NWR, which is at the southern edge of the Albemarle Sound, just inland of Kitty Hawk, NC (where the Wright Brothers first took flight).

From: APauls
06-May-19
I love animals at least as much as the next guy, but I honestly don't see the reason for tring to bring back animals from extinction. If the species is struggling, sure, help it out, but if the animal, even using human help dwindles and dwindles to the point of extinction, then in my very simple opinion, that animal is no longer cut out for it. It's happened for milennia, and will keep happening. As much as I'd love to see a saber-tooth tiger, they just didn't cut the mustard, and we no longer have them. Now if people are killing them off, that's a different story. If animals are being poached into extinction people need to be held in check.

The irony to me is it's usually the same type of people, that want to let "nature take it's course and keep hunters out of it" while at the same time "playing God and reintroducing struggling species."

From: W8N4RUT
06-May-19
very interesting--appreciate the added info!

(would have been great if that info was in the article too)

06-May-19
Not sure if elkstabber thinks I’m telling a “Sasquatch” ;0). However, for those that wanna look around, it’s well documented that red wolves made there way through much of the TN side of the park (e.g., Cades Cove). They had some collared and radio taped.

From: Ace
06-May-19
Some would say that you can't tell a Red Wolf from an Eastern Coyote even WITH a DNA test, that's because many biologists now believe that there is no such thing as a Red Wolf. Wolves, Coyotes, and dogs have been inter-breeding for a long time.

A skeptical type might say that sometimes it seems as if species are "invented" so that they can be declared threatened, endangered or extinct. That'd be one good way to exercise control over people and land use wouldn't it?

From: Kodiak
06-May-19
They're coyotes.

From: 8point
06-May-19
They're GMO, get rid of them

From: GF
06-May-19
“but if the animal, even using human help dwindles and dwindles to the point of extinction, then in my very simple opinion, that animal is no longer cut out for it. It's happened for milennia, and will keep happening. As much as I'd love to see a saber-tooth tiger, they just didn't cut the mustard, and we no longer have them. Now if people are killing them off, that's a different story. If animals are being poached into extinction people need to be held in check.”

I think the latter is the case with Reds - that is, assuming that they are genetically distinct as Wolf, and not actually “just” a wolf-yote mix (hybrid would be inaccurate, since Wolf-Yote crosses are clearly NOT infertile....

Ironic, though, that coyote hunting is perceived to be a threat to the “red wolf” when interbreeding is probably at least as great a hazard to their preservation as a distinct species. I’m not sure what % coyote DNA within the Wolf population would spell the end of the species, but given the adaptability of the coyote, I’m going to guess that it’s under 50%...

From: DL
06-May-19
APauls we have those stupid can’t fend for themselves condors here in Ca. You cannot use lead here for anything but shooting targets at a range. These birds should have gone extinct during the last ice age. If the government quit putting out dead animals for them they would be extinct.

From: elkstabber
07-May-19

elkstabber's Link
Panther Bone - no, I wasn't calling you out at all. I was trying to add facts where they were missing mostly from the newspaper article.

Ace - you made good points.

Also, I was wrong when I said that coyotes couldn't be hunted. Within the last couple of years coyote hunting has become tightly controlled. At the link are the coyote hunting requirements for the 5 counties. Coincidentally, those are also the counties with NC's enormously fat black bears.

07-May-19
Not a big deal, elkstabber. Who would believe me anyway; my handle is "Panther Bone". HA! ;0)

From: Rut Nut
07-May-19
If it is actually a cross between a grey wolf and a coyote, and has so many genetic characteristics of a coyote that it is indistinguishable from a coyote, then why is it called "wolf"???

From: Treeline
07-May-19
So that the Government can have more control, Rut Nut!!

Endangered species designation allows the Government to restrict to anything that may impact the designated species - logging, mining, oil and gas, livestock grazing, hunting of designated species (or anything similar to the designated species) and, of course, limits to any potential prey species that said designated species eats.

Cool, huh?

From: Drahthaar
11-May-19
I live in Eastern N.C. where the Red Wolves were released, 30 pairs my ass, as thick is our country is there is no way to tell how may Wolves are there. and no you can't tell them from a coyote . They have wiped out our deer herd, where you could see 25 deer in a morning or afternoon hunt now you are lucky to see 1 deer a week. So maybe they will all starve to death. There was a elderly school teacher killed a couple months ago on her morning walk, the Fed aren't saying much about it. Forrest

From: Rut Nut
13-May-19
No, NOT COOL Tavis! : (

Sorry to hear that Forrest!

From: GF
13-May-19
“APauls we have those stupid can’t fend for themselves condors here in Ca. ”

What part of Scavenger” don’t you understand???

Duh

13-May-19
I tell you what happened to the Red Wolf. The Pauls brothers have run down and killed all but the remaining 30 wolves. With their bare hands and boots!

  • Sitka Gear