MT Guide Gets Lifetime Hunting Ban
General Topic
Contributors to this thread:
Bowboy 04-Jun-19
IdyllwildArcher 04-Jun-19
StickFlicker 04-Jun-19
LKH 04-Jun-19
StickFlicker 04-Jun-19
Buskill 04-Jun-19
Franklin 04-Jun-19
JTV 05-Jun-19
yooper89 05-Jun-19
ELKMAN 05-Jun-19
BC173 05-Jun-19
midwest 05-Jun-19
Trial153 05-Jun-19
Rut Nut 05-Jun-19
yooper89 05-Jun-19
Bowbender 05-Jun-19
BigOzzie 05-Jun-19
Lost Arra 05-Jun-19
midwest 05-Jun-19
SD BuckBuster 05-Jun-19
Brotsky 05-Jun-19
Treeline 05-Jun-19
SD BuckBuster 05-Jun-19
Brotsky 05-Jun-19
Nick Muche 05-Jun-19
SD BuckBuster 05-Jun-19
Treeline 05-Jun-19
Brotsky 05-Jun-19
Rut Nut 05-Jun-19
yooper89 05-Jun-19
Linecutter 05-Jun-19
midwest 05-Jun-19
elkstabber 05-Jun-19
Trial153 05-Jun-19
Scrappy 05-Jun-19
Deflatem 05-Jun-19
SD BuckBuster 05-Jun-19
Feedjake 05-Jun-19
Mpdh 05-Jun-19
TreeWalker 05-Jun-19
SaddleReaper 05-Jun-19
APauls 05-Jun-19
320 bull 05-Jun-19
midwest 05-Jun-19
APauls 05-Jun-19
Brotsky 05-Jun-19
Treeline 05-Jun-19
320 bull 06-Jun-19
Busta'Ribs 11-Jun-19
1boonr 11-Jun-19
SDHNTR(home) 11-Jun-19
IdyllwildArcher 11-Jun-19
badguybuster 12-Jun-19
Korey Wolfe 13-Jun-19
LBshooter 13-Jun-19
JTV 13-Jun-19
lv2bohunt 19-Jun-19
From: Bowboy
04-Jun-19

Bowboy's Link
Don't know if this was posted yet. Looks like they threw the book at this guy.

04-Jun-19
Ouch

From: StickFlicker
04-Jun-19
Since he was convicted of felonies, he will have also lost his right to vote in the U.S.

From: LKH
04-Jun-19
Voting is a "by state" issue.

Twenty states (Alaska, Arkansas, Georgia, Idaho, Iowa, Kansas, Louisiana, Maryland, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, New Jersey, New Mexico, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Texas, Washington, West Virginia, and Wisconsin) do not allow persons convicted of a felony to vote while serving a sentence, but ...

From: StickFlicker
04-Jun-19
LKH, I wasn't aware of that, thanks.

From: Buskill
04-Jun-19
Damn , that dude got crazy busy racking up some kills that year

From: Franklin
04-Jun-19
I always get a kick out of poachers that get their hunting privileges revoked....like a poacher cares about not having a license.

Jail and fines are the only thing that will get their attention.

From: JTV
05-Jun-19
cant read it, it wants me to turn off my ad blocker or subscribe.. I aint doing either ...

I agree with the jail time and very heavy fines, he will find a way as a poacher ...

From: yooper89
05-Jun-19
amazing what people will do for pictures, glory, etc now a day with social media in the mix. Just saw a handful of charges against another “Instagram star” in Utah. Pathetic.

From: ELKMAN
05-Jun-19
What a piece of $h!t...

From: BC173
05-Jun-19
As it should be.

From: midwest
05-Jun-19
yooper89.....MuleyFreak?

From: Trial153
05-Jun-19
Good.

From: Rut Nut
05-Jun-19
WOW! Montana doesn't mess around! 1)Lifetime suspension of hunting, fishing AND trapping 2) 500 hours community service 3) 10 years probation AND 4) $33,000 in restitution!

Wish PA was more like MT!

From: yooper89
05-Jun-19
Midwest- that’s the one.

From: Bowbender
05-Jun-19
Rut,

X2

From: BigOzzie
05-Jun-19
Gotta love a Montana paper saying "Mule Buck" Not that I am the expert but that just doesn't sound right. Maybe Muley buck, or Mule Deer buck but Mule buck really.

oz

From: Lost Arra
05-Jun-19
Agree with Franklin 100%. Poachers don't care about licenses and hunting rights. Heavy fines, jail time and weapons confiscation is more appropriate. Felons probably cannot own a firearm anyway.

From: midwest
05-Jun-19
Thing is, when you lose your hunting privileges, you can be arrested just by carrying a weapon in the field or be considered in the act of hunting. Not just for breaking any game laws.

05-Jun-19
WOW. In no way am I saying this isn't a BIG darn deal.. And it's was horrible. But I do think giving a 23 year old kid a lifetime ban is harsh. I didn't do anything remotely close to this when I was 23 but I did some darn stupid stuff that I wouldn't even think to do now when i'm 41. When the guy is 55 years old maybe he has changed a bit. Even for murder at age 23 they don't send them to prison for death.

Am I the only one thinking this?

From: Brotsky
05-Jun-19
I think the punishment is fair. He willfully violated game laws and poached some pretty impressive critters. He obviously knew better, you make bad decisions you pay the price. I made some bad decisions when I was younger too, but nothing like this. He knew exactly what he was doing and should pay accordingly.

From: Treeline
05-Jun-19
Or, maybe claim to have Native American hunting rights?

Seems to be working well for the Crows and several other tribes to totally ignore game laws, kill and leave animals to rot...

05-Jun-19
While I agree with some of that Brotsky… MURDER 1 doesn't get life in prison until you die. I mean,, think about that for a minute.

From: Brotsky
05-Jun-19
Yeah but he's not going to prison, he's just not being allowed to participate in a sport.

From: Nick Muche
05-Jun-19
Let's hear more about MuleyFreak!?

05-Jun-19
I know that he is still free.. but i'm talking about the punishment itself.. not what it entails.

I don't know.. If the guy was 45 years old I would change my tune on it. 23 is too young for a lifetime banishment IMO.

From: Treeline
05-Jun-19
I agree with you SD.

Hard to believe they banned him from fishing and trapping as well as hunting.

For Life!??? That is excessive. Maybe 10 years would be more in line?

With many of the atrocities committed by Natives totally outside of any regulation?

From: Brotsky
05-Jun-19
Nick, looks like he got pinched for taking an animal while trespassing in Utah if I read it correctly.

From: Rut Nut
05-Jun-19
That was my initial reaction SD............................................but then reading the whole story, it says he was already on "temporary suspension" of hunting priviledges for trespassing when these other violations occurred.

From: yooper89
05-Jun-19
Nick - from another forum:

Here are the facts that I personally know (either straight from the horses's mouth or court records): Erik got caught trespassing while elk hunting on private property before 2017. Erik went back in 2017 to the exact same property to hunt elk again. Erik wounded at least one bull (mortal wound is a high possibility with a lung shot and broadhead/arrow still in bull) Erik got caught, again, and this time charges were pressed. Erik plead guilty and the district court sentenced him in June 2018. In March of 2019, the Utah Division of Wildlife suspends Erik's Big Game privileges for 22 months.

From: Linecutter
05-Jun-19
He had been a guide, he had known trespassing charges, he had taken trophy animals for the skull and antlers only leaving the carcass to rot, he knew what he was doing was illegal, this wasn't an innocent or stupid mistake. This was Professional Poaching for profit. Not someone needing the meat to feed their family. Life time ban on hunting and fishing is not harsh for this kind of activity even if he is only 23 years old, age is irrelevant beyond 18 yrs of age, since you are considered an adult. You want to blame someone, blame the person or people who allowed him to think, or taught him, the was okay to do. Professional Poachers should all be treated this way. We make choices, as adults we are responsible for our choices, he got caught and now faces the consequences of his choices, if he hadn't got caught he'd still be doing it. He is an Adult NOT a Child that needs to realized, it really is as simple as that. He gets caught doing it again, they will be watching him, his butt will be going to jail next time, at least in Montana, I'll put money on that. DANNY

From: midwest
05-Jun-19

midwest's embedded Photo
midwest's embedded Photo
Muley Freak...

From: elkstabber
05-Jun-19
I'm no longer considering buying a Muley Freak bino harness. Midwest (and others) have brought this to light recently. It is very sad to me how some people seem to be willing to do anything to promote a product or themselves to the media.

From: Trial153
05-Jun-19
should have gotten a bit of jail time as well. Cherry on top.

From: Scrappy
05-Jun-19

Scrappy's Link
More on the muley idiot over on rokslide. Seems the tool is trying to scrub all the info off the web and threatening everyone that posts about it. So read at your own risk. You might get interweb sued.

From: Deflatem
05-Jun-19
"But I do think giving a 23 year old kid a lifetime ban is harsh." In what world is a 23 year old a KID? That's the problem in America, we coddle our children. MY daughter is 23 years old and she is a safety inspector for all the airports in the Midwest. She is an adult, and a damn good one too.

05-Jun-19
"But I do think giving a 23 year old kid a lifetime ban is harsh." In what world is a 23 year old a KID? That's the problem in America, we coddle our children. MY daughter is 23 years old and she is a safety inspector for all the airports in the Midwest. She is an adult, and a damn good one too."

Alright, yes, he is not a kid... a "young adult". And by young adult I mean the punishment is for 60 years! They send people to rehabilitate them after their crimes. My point is that this dude got a 60 year punishment and people that murder get a 25 year punishment. Is anyone catching on to what I'm trying to say here?

From: Feedjake
05-Jun-19
I hear you SD BuckBuster. I'm 26 years old with 2 small children and to think that if he would be in the same situation he could never go fishing with his grandkids when he is 65 seems a little extreme. 20 years makes sense. Lifetime seems a little out there. I'm not making light of what he did, I just know that people can change a lot in 40 years.

From: Mpdh
05-Jun-19
Doesn’t look like he’s changed much since the first time he got caught.

From: TreeWalker
05-Jun-19
When I was growing up in the 1960s in the Midwest in a small rural town of a few thousand people the use of alcohol negated responsibility. More than one I would see a police car with the lights on but no siren following slowly behind a drunk driver home from the bar to make sure he drove home safe. Yes, the drunk was driving his own car. A man who punched his wife a few times after getting home from the bar was told to sleep it off. The guy who hit a kid in a crosswalk was not charged because you can't hold someone responsible when they were impaired.

Now, a few decades later, society including my old home town do not see alcohol as invalidating personal responsibility for the harm caused.

Poaching needs to be treated as the crime it is. I think it is bull crap to get a ticket when your backpack is covering up some of your orange vest so you fall 50 square inches below the visible orange rule or when you shot 5 minutes before legal shooting hours. My cell phone is often a couple of minutes different than my PC clock which will not always agree with the time the radio announces as news starts at the top of the hour. If you are 20 feet over the edge of the game unit on an unmarked border that is ticky tacky in my opinion. I think is crap to be given a ticket if you get to your animal and notch the tag then but take pictures for 5 minutes before attaching the tag. I feel if you are in wilderness and the guide says you are good to shoot and you are outside you unit then the guide should get the ticket.

I use OnX, always wait a few minutes into shooting light and stop a few minutes before, never hunt right at the GMU's border unless obvious like a river, etc, because I want to keep my hunting privileges and hunt a lot of states with points built up that would be lost.

Poaching to me is any of these: when you are 100 yards or more from the unit your tag is valid for, is 30 minutes outside legal shooting hours, you are using a weapon that is not allowed, you are hunting on a day the tag is not valid for, you are hunting for a species the tag is not for, you are using someone else's tag, you falsely claim are a resident on your tag, you don't have a tag, you trespassed onto marked private to shoot the animal, or you shot and left an animal rather than put your tag on the animal.

All the above require the poacher to have made a decision to violate the law. I support confiscating everything that was used for that activity. The truck, gun, optics, etc. Mandatory jail time of 6 months plus the age or combined ages of the animal or animals poached. Mandatory fine of $10,000 plus 10x the cost of the permit to legally hunt the animal or animals. Mandatory loss of hunting, fishing, trapping, guiding and outfitting privileges for 5 years plus the age or combined ages of the animals.

I am not here to do a comparative "what about this or that" analysis that looks at murder or shoplifting or DUI. I am a hunter and dislike poachers and the harm they do. I want to be on the side of protecting wildlife from criminals and if the pendulum swings too far after being too lenient then so be it.

From: SaddleReaper
05-Jun-19

SaddleReaper's embedded Photo
SaddleReaper's embedded Photo
With regards to muley freak - right on the home page..... this says it all.

From: APauls
05-Jun-19
This guy was two steps and a decade ahead of Pat and the rest of us when he said to heck with the law

From: 320 bull
05-Jun-19
Im with SD buckbuster on the lifetime suspension. Let him earn it back after 10 years of Saturdays fixing trails, clearing dead fall, with a neon green shirt that reads I got caught poaching.

From: midwest
05-Jun-19
"...he could never go fishing with his grandkids when he is 65..."

Why not? His grandkids aren't banned.

From: APauls
05-Jun-19
Actually 320 I think you're on to something there. I'd be all in favour if people were caught breaking the law in a way that took from the public if there was a way for them to "earn it back." So in this case if the guy had to do _____ hours for his penalty and then another massive amount of _____ hours to earn back his hunting/fishing priveledges. That way there is at least a chance for him to work it back at net benefit to the public if he is a die hard outdoorsman. A lifetime ban I imagine that guy will poach again. But maybe if you gave him hope....

Murder or something like that - hang the peckers.

From: Brotsky
05-Jun-19
I also like that idea Adam. Definitely something for state agencies to consider.

From: Treeline
05-Jun-19
320, I think you are on to something...

Perhaps he could help out the G&F Department with any highway kill cleanup, trash pickup on roads and streams, mowing/weed removal around the offices, shoveling snow, and any other kinds of labor to help and build some character. There should be some kind of path and goals.

From: 320 bull
06-Jun-19
I learned how effective that type of punishment is raising kids. I could take away just about anything from my son and he would simply adapt and learn to live without. Well the phone but that is another animal. Give him a crappy job and instant regret for his actions. Add in some embarrassment and you have a pretty effective punishment. Financial punishment doesn't equate to the same thing for everyone. Time and effort stings even the wealthy. For the trespassing charges the time could be used by the victim. Imagine getting to put a lowly trespasser to work. Here hand pull all this poison ivy. Oh you didn't bring gloves? I bet more of the folks breaking laws would behave if they knew the punishment to be a major time and effort consumer.

From: Busta'Ribs
11-Jun-19
If we compare a lifetime of lost hunting privileges for repeated poaching with 25 years for murder and say that’s not just you may be correct. But perhaps consider if the punishment for murder was death rather than 25 years, then would the poaching sentence be just? Maybe your issue is with a different sentence altogether?

From: 1boonr
11-Jun-19
Sucks to be him but it could help to stop other people from doing a similar thing. When you compare it to the 25 year murder sentence, maybe the murder sentence should be life also. This sentence could be a deterrent.

From: SDHNTR(home)
11-Jun-19
Social media rears its ugly head again. The bane of human existence. Not one good thing comes from it. When a man's (or woman's) sense of worth is measured in likes and followers, we've lost our way. And so here we are.

I follow one man, or I try to. He won't lead me wrong. Who needs Social Media?

11-Jun-19
"But perhaps consider if the punishment for murder was death rather than 25 years, then would the poaching sentence be just? "

Then consider poaching sentences in Texas because if you murder someone in Texas...

From: badguybuster
12-Jun-19
There is a certain point where "enough is enough" and he crossed it. Period. He repeatedly broke the law and didnt give a crap. Punishment seems sufficient.

From: Korey Wolfe
13-Jun-19
My home state of Missouri has given out very few lifetime hunting privilege bans. They learned early on that if a poacher knows they will never be able to "legally" hunt again, then they really haven't got much to lose and continue on their path of poaching. Like what are they going to do, take away hunting privileges for two lifetimes? I'd say if he doesn't poach for his 10 years of probation, or however many years the judge decides, then at least there is an incentive to clean up his act.

From: LBshooter
13-Jun-19
All poachers should have to go in front of this judge, spanked him good. Way to go, and he's 23 along life ahead of not being able to hunt. However we all know he probably will anyway, a scumbag is a scumbag.

From: JTV
13-Jun-19

JTV's Link
https://www.foxnews.com/great-outdoors/montana-hunters-yellowstone-mountain-lion-illegal-kill

From: lv2bohunt
19-Jun-19
This nut already had multiple chances at remorse and rehabilitation. He got what he deserved. Whether he breaks the law again in the future is a totally different matter. If he is caught again he should get an even more severe punishment.

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