P&Y Club Fair Chase - Electronic Devices
General Topic
Contributors to this thread:
Photohunter 23-Jun-19
Photohunter 23-Jun-19
Kevin Dill 23-Jun-19
JTV 23-Jun-19
JL 23-Jun-19
Kevin Dill 23-Jun-19
StickFlicker 23-Jun-19
Woods Walker 24-Jun-19
Missouribreaks 24-Jun-19
JSW 24-Jun-19
JusPassin 24-Jun-19
Ambush 24-Jun-19
Franklin 24-Jun-19
Dale06 24-Jun-19
Photohunter 24-Jun-19
From: Photohunter
23-Jun-19
The Pope and Young club has their rules of fair chase which I believe are a pretty good standard to follow.

Their web site says:

"The term Fair Chase shall not include the taking of animals under the following conditions: By the use of electronic devices for attracting, locating or pursuing game or guiding the hunter to such game".

I can think of a few situations regarding the phrase "pursuing game or guiding the hunter to such game":

1) You're on a stalk and a buddy calls you on the radio and says to move to the right 100 yards. 2) A buddy calls you on the radio from 2 miles away and says he just watched a great buck bed - get over here right away.

#1 is obviously not fair chase in my book or according to the Pope and Young club. Is this actually illegal in some states?

Is #2 fair chase according to the Pope and Young definition?

From: Photohunter
23-Jun-19
The question is not intended to be a trick. I'm considering a guided hunt and the scenario is a real possibility. I'm sure the scenario happens many times. Would an animal taken in this situation be considered for record book entry? I'm guessing it is permissible by P&Y standards, but I'm not sure.

From: Kevin Dill
23-Jun-19
How about this: If the use of an electronic communications device (in this case a radio) aids in locating or killing a game animal, it's not a fair chase kill. In scenario 2 the guy being called in would be an observer.....otherwise it's not fair chase by P&Y as I read it.

From: JTV
23-Jun-19
used to locate ... does that include game cams, how about those that call and tell you the critter is there now in real time .. Radios would be considered a no no

From: JL
23-Jun-19
How do cat hunts fit in with collars, GPS's and radios?

From: Kevin Dill
23-Jun-19
No electronic collars on dogs, as it theoretically allows for much easier dog locating....and perhaps a treed lion.

From: StickFlicker
23-Jun-19
Charlie, There's still lots of country in the west where there is no cell phone reception and radios are used for communication. I'll let Ed answer the OP's question, but the dog collar question has been answered on Bowsite many times. Collars are fine if they are NOT used during the hunt to help pursue and locate the hunted animals, only used in an emergency later to find a lost dog.

From: Woods Walker
24-Jun-19
I'd say the cell phone and trail cam made that P&Y rule a relic many years ago.

24-Jun-19
"Fair chase" was largely abandoned many inventions ago.

From: JSW
24-Jun-19
I'll comment on the 2 original questions. #1 is a clear violation of P&Y's Rules of Fair Chase. #2 is not. Below is an excerpt from an article I wrote in the Ethic last year in an attempt to address technology and fair chase issues. As soon as the article was published, I realized I didn't spend nearly enough time addressing wireless communications.

Wireless radios: Using radios to talk to a hunter while making the stalk and guide him into an animal is a violation.

Obviously, there are many gray areas that surround the use of communication devices. Some areas are very clear, like the one mentioned above while others bump up against being unfair. How many times have you been talking to someone on the phone and they said, "I just saw a huge buck walking into the Jones place". You have permission to hunt there so you get your gear and head over. It's very hard to say that scenario would not be fair. #2 fits under that scenario. The same scenario could happen with no phone call. The mail man drives up and says "I just saw a huge buck walking into the Jones place". He didn't use electronic communications but it's the same thing.. That's why it's hard to call #2 a violation.

I disagree that fair chase was abandoned many inventions ago. How we use modern technology determines what is fair and what is not. Each and every bowhunter has to make a conscious decision on whether or not to be a fair chase hunter. How many corners will we cut to be successful?

Organizations like P&Y and B&C are tasked with reminding hunters how to act ethically. As soon as we give up on fair chase, we lose public support and will cease to exist. There are a number of things that you can do that are legal but not considered fair chase by one organization or both.

If you choose to hunt in a manner that is not fair chase but is legal, you have the right to do that. Just remember that any animal taken outside of the rules of fair chase, legal or not, will not qualify to be recognized by the top 2 record keeping organizations.

From: JusPassin
24-Jun-19
If you are involved in the "chase" and use any kind of electronics to communicate/coordinate the taking of the animal, you are NOT hunting fair chase.

From: Ambush
24-Jun-19
And then there’s those that spend their time on Internet forums bemoaning technology. Ironic.

From: Franklin
24-Jun-19
X2 Missouri....good one!

From: Dale06
24-Jun-19
I’m glad this is all cleared up for us. I’ll be using any legal means that I want to use. Not much interested in getting animals in “the book”. If you are, that’s fine, have fun.

From: Photohunter
24-Jun-19
Thanks JSW and all for the replies.

  • Sitka Gear