Contributors to this thread:
Colorado Wolf Intro - Its Started
The problem is here and now....
Does SSS apply to the petition circulators? :-)
If it doesn’t, it should!
Now that there are established packs in Oregon there is a push for bringing the grizzly back! They won’t stop.
Should we all apply to be signature gatherers? I bet if I tried really hard I could get 0 signatures to support this cause and make $108 doing it.
Hell, bring back the T. rex and velociraptors! With all this “global warming” the dinosaurs should be loving it! Bet that would clean that cesspool in LA up quick!
I am sorry. This is bad news for Colorado Elk Deer and day good by to your Moose!! Fight it as much as we can . Send me a email . Hunt
Is this the same as other petitions where if 1 fake signature shows up the whole page is void?
Anti hunting liberal bags of Sh... pushing their agenda.
So if I snuff a couple out, there will be a tree hugger nearby monitoring me?
Idiots! It never ends....
Sign me up! I will take their money and sit there but I will have very few signatures. Because I will tell people the other side of the story.
Got to love the liberal mind,$106 for 6 hours of work.Don't even have to put in a full day. I bet if they sit in front of starbucks for 6 hours they'll never come up short on the quota and probably get a free cup of coffee.
If they succeed, it should be insisted upon that they only introduce pure strains of the original species. Otherwise they are invasives.
I truly feel sorry for you guys, coming from a hunter from a place that is culling wolves simply so caribou don't go totally extinct. And moose have become the scapegoat.
The liberal way things are going in this country they will no doubt have them in Colorado soon and probably east of the Mississippi River too.
Sign up, fake it, throw the paperwork in the trash, blow them off when they call you back, cash the check and donate it to RMEF, file a workman's comp claim.
Us Wyoming folks will at the border waiting patiently for them to cross over then they'll be shot since there considered predators. Real stupid move on Colorados part, but it doesn't surprise me.
If somebody can whip up a resume with some Clinton Fund and Obama Campaign background, I’ll give them a runaround like they’ve never seen.
Here's the Sierra Club's release. Bet they'll find a bunch of longtime ranchers signing up to gather signatures, lol!
For the first time, Coloradans - not politicians, not bureaucrats – "We, The People", may decide whether to reintroduce gray wolves to Colorado. We will only have this choice, though, if we can get the gray wolf on the 2020 ballot.
State officials recently approved our ballot proposal, Initiative 107, that if passed would:
Direct the State of Colorado to restore gray wolves to public lands west of the Continental Divide Require our Colorado Parks and Wildlife to implement a science-based wolf restoration plan Fairly compensate livestock owners for livestock losses caused by wolves Now, we need your help to get the wolf on the 2020 ballot ... We must collect at least 160,000 petition signatures by December 2019 to put the measure before Colorado voters.
We need wildlife lovers – tree huggers and elk hunters, birders and anglers, backcountry enthusiasts and long-time ranchers – everyone who loves Colorado’s wild lands – to help to collect the 160,000 signatures needed.
Lou, the interview will finally give you a chance to use those Birkenstocks.
Just to clarify, the company posting the job opening isn't pro-wolf necessarily. They are a company that you can pay to gather signatures for all sorts of stuff or to canvass for candidates, issues. If they weren't already hired by prowolfers they may have been open to being hired to support our side.
Thats the way it works. You need X amount of signatures? OK, that will be $X and they will go get them. What your ballot issue is doesn't really matter other than it may cost more or less depending on the issue. Given the current make-up of Colorado, this one probably wasn't the most expensive issue.
I wonder if the State of Colorado is taking into account the financial ramifications of decimating it's elk heard? The non-residents paying ~$700 for an OTC tag is a significant chunk of recurring money for the state...as a non-resident why would I spend all that money to goto Colorado when my chance of success declines substantially? I won't be paying that for a chance to snap a picture of a wolf and I can guarantee my friends won't either.
I know, I know, the public is making the choice here...but Colorado Parks and Wildlife employees need to fight this initiative any way they can. Decreased collections from tags equates to decreased budgets which equates to decreased jobs and decreased compensation. I have yet to meet an anti-hunter who spends anywhere near what I spend on hunting in a year. The soccer mom that occasionally googles "wolf puppy pictures" to make herself feel good certainly isn't paying the state of Colorado what I do. There are substantial financial implications to this.
And just like that the PP problem is solved
Parks and Wildlife is prohibited by statute from taking a position on political issues. CPW knows full well the consequences, from lost revenue to having to spend millions dealing with them, compensating ranchers, etc.. Thats why the Commission voted unanimously to reject the petition to reintroduce wolves.
Thanks for the additional color, Jaq. The fact these groups have a viable workaround is disheartening to say the least. I wonder if these same groups are taking into account the financial ramifications on all of wildlife by doing this. The old adage of "What's good for elk is good for everything else" comes to mind. Doubtful, but I wonder?
I'm sure there is a clause in there somewhere about managing the population....kinda like what was done with the Yellowstone re-introduction. Insert eye roll.....
"We need wildlife lovers – tree huggers and elk hunters, birders and anglers, backcountry enthusiasts and long-time ranchers – everyone who loves Colorado’s wild lands"
Threw the elk hunters and long time ranchers into the mix to give it the appearance of being something everybody wants.... have to sugar coat it to get their cult following to fall in line.
60 wolves in the Weminuche... If a female can have just four pups a year.... dang it man!! It blows my mind what's gonna happen. Dick Ray, Lobo Outfitters say it's gonna be a heck of a battle just trying to control them if it happens. And when the elk and moose migrate down in the winter, the wolves will follow, and some will stay. Wonder how many cows the ranchers will loose? Saddest thing is, they don't want them on the east slope.
Its normal to have common sense reactions to this issue. Unfortunately, although valid, common sense, fact-based positions should matter, they won't be deciding this for us here in CO.
Wolves are mystical symbols of the wilderness. Thats about the end of it for many.
I don't know if a guy should be depressed or pissed when issues like this can gain traction thru initiative and referendum. Can only hope that the voters in the end will have common sense, but the numbers seemed stacked against us. You know what we're dealing with in Minnesota with the thousands of wolves and attempts to reopen season here keep getting blocked. And the wolves here were never introduced or reintroduced. We always had lots. I don't know, I wasn't born for these times.
I spent nearly 2 years working in Meeker around 2009...Hunted there as well. Killed bulls both years easily on an OTC archery tag. Them wolves will keep those sheep herders busy. Wolves won't have to chase elk, those hills are filled with thousands of sheep each summer.... now when winter comes. Be another story. Sad to see. It's time for a major pr campaign to be launched educating the masses..
Los Angeles basin had Saber Tooth cats, Dire wolves, short faced bears and other carnivores. Bring them back. This crap is ridiculous.
SMH. I literally cannot believe how deceitful humans can be to get what they want.
Lots of bitching and smart ass comments. No real solutions or action. I get it, we are all employed, taking care of our families, living our lives and don't have the time or resources. Too bad its come to this. Just know these folks are crazy and willing to fight. Don't worry, we'll all have lots of extra time when hunting seasons are gone. Maybe then we will have some action against this but it will be too late. Frustrating situation. Sorry to hear it.
Don’t worry SBH, there’ll be another thread pitting hunter against hunter in the baiting debate too.
Guess this still won’t be a wake up call for a lot of hunters.
You can help here: https://www.stopthewolf.org/
Colorado is the new California with all the environuts/libs that have moved there .... the pro wolf side know how to pander to those folks and those people have no idea what happens when wolves get a foot hold ..... its all la la land to those dopes ...it has always been said the animal rights/anti-hunters want these wolves in there, for them it is a way to stop the hunting of ungulates by big bad hunters....
Nobody inside the USFWS has said a ballot initiative will compel them to do anything, and they're the ones in charge. It takes all of 60 seconds to get the Regional Directors phone or email and ask the question.
I moved my post from the Colorado thread here because it is the same issue. Urban voters deciding issues for the rest of is.
Colorado has joined the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact (NPV). Eliminating the Electoral Collage and allowing the coasts and city’s to control all national elections. The US constitution reads “Each state shall appoint, in such a manner as the legislature thereof may direct, a number of electors.”
The NPV supporters argue this also allows the state legislators to ignore their states voters and appoint electors based on the national popular vote.
No state would do this unilaterally, so NPV has a trigger. It only takes effect if adopted by enough states to control 270 electoral votes.
So far 14 states and Wash DC have signed on. Including CO. This totals 189 electoral votes. Delaware and Oregon May soon join. Of course California and New York are charter members.
The point is, in the very near future the urban areas could be deciding national elections also.
The liberals also want to “pack”. Increase the total number of Supreme Court justices, so they can add more liberal judges if they win the presidency. Why wait for one to die. Just add how ever many you need to be the majority. Nothing limits how many justices there can be.
There aren't any broad-based campaigns happening yet. Their side is mobilizing their base through Facebook and email blasts, while starting the signature gathering process.
Our side is alerting the base, starting fundraising. They don't need funding for their campaign - lots of big East coast organizations lining up. Remains to be seen what hunting-agriculture organizations will kick in $ on our side. SCI likely will help. BHA definitely will not. CBA and CTAS are in.
A year from now, summer of 2020, is when the real battle begins. The fight will be for voters in the "middle". Our middle is now left of center, nature lovers, wildlife "watchers" (out the Subaru window) and consider themselves "green". This initiative is likely to pass.
However, as Bob notes, there will be so many complications and lawsuits that the introduction may never occur, even if the initiative passes.
Thanks for the link Kadbow! Just donated.
You'll have to learn how to judge shop and articulate injunctions, just like they do.
The "introduction of an invasive species detrimental to native species" angle might be a good sart. THEY have to prove that only geneticly pure strains of grey wolf are being RE introduced. You sure don't want our Canadian wolves!!
Lou, I would think RMEF would be a big anti-wolf supporter as well.
To be honest I'm surprised that the "restoration" of an entire species of animal is even allowable as a petition... Wonder if Game and Fish could get a ahead of it by putting in a policy/law that restricts introductions of species only by order and approval of Game and Fish, Biologists, & Governors Office, etc...
Montana was one of the first states to deal with this crap. We saw wolves and let them walk because we were ethical hunters waiting for the management plan to go into effect. But then we learned after they wolf humpers filed lawsuit after lawsuit and that cost us lots of elk, deer, moose, and livestock. Do yourselves a favor down there in Colorado. If can’t stop the reintroduction put your own management plan into effect IMMEDIATELY before 40 wolves become 80 and 80 wolves become 800!
Brotsky, RMEF has already come out against it.
Just wait until everyone hears about the Center for Biological Diversity's plans to put Grizzlies back in Colorado.
MP, I understand what you’re saying, but no need for anyone to risk massive fines, loss of hunting privileges, etc. Nothing illegal about prodding them into Wyoming with a good old fashioned wolf drive. As Boyboy points out, they’ll have a welcoming party waiting for them.
I personally think the stage has been set. And if this goes wrong, Mule power pretty much summed up my feelings on it.
Lou, is it east coast money or, is it west coast funding that will drive the Wolfe’s push?
It’s going to take another civil war in America....This is just one more way of life liberals want . Look at illegal immigration it’s almost to the point of acceptance because we’re being over run with it....politicians care more about votes than about America !! Just think of what Colorado once was and look at it now. Look at gay marriage, a lot of people did not want it, me included, but got it anyway. Look at religion that’s fading fast too. The liberals that have taken over Colorado want wolves ? They’ll get them. No doubt in my mind. If you think I’m wrong you’re BSing yourself !!
If 'other states' don't see the writing on the wall, ie. what happened in Montana and surrounding states and form some serious opposition NOW, 'they' can kiss a large percentage of the ungulate herds and hunting revenues goodbye! It won't stop with CO if the promoters win... One possible benefit to wolf re-popuation...there won't be as many coyotes... ;)
I just spent three days moving my cows in the mountains close to home, I saw a total of two mule deer in about thirty miles of ground. The elk and deer have taken a huge hit here in sw montana, wolf depredation on livestock is increasing by the month. Colorado is making a huge mistake, these people are crazy. People are making decisions based on ignorance, 99 percent of them will never see a wolf in the wild and the impact wont cost them a dime, just so they can get a warm fuzzy feeling knowing they've screwed us good!
My question is why couldn’t the CDOW, RMEF, or some other group use the courts to stall this if it passes? We see it constantly being used against us, why can’t we flip the tables? Seems the right group could put that in the works easily.
'...wolf depredation on livestock is increasing by the month...' and as the wildlife dwindles further, this will continue to increase. Then it will go to sheep, horses, house pets, and eventually increased negative human encounters. I was lucky/fortunate...I lived in Montana before the re-intro began, and about the time it happened, I moved to WA. The game numbers were high and I got the best of hunting there. No wolves in WA and game was at an all time high there too. Just lucky. Now wherever the wolves are, big game hunting is going to hell. Don't let this happen in the rest of the Rockies nor the Cascades. A good place to start is joining RMEF...Power in numbers.
You can join the RMEF, you can sign petitions, you can write senators or whatever else you think will help. But again look at Montana. One judge, Judge Malloy, didn’t care what hunters, any organization, or even Montana FWP had to say. He sided with the wolf huggers and everything went to hell. He knew what he did and even when game populations plummeted he stuck by their side backing all of the reasons why wolves were still “endangered” and couldn’t be managed based on facts and science. When he retired he reserved the right to get back on the bench specifically to handle wolf issues. I’m telling you guys it isn’t looking good. When, not if but when they start dumping off Canadian timber wolves and you see one you best take ethical wildlife management into your own hands. If you don’t it will be like watching water fill a leaking ship. The result is inevitable. Your ship WILL sink!
15 years from now they will be saying "We need to further reduce elk herds to increase habitat for the endangered Shiras moose" while wolves proliferate all along the rockies.
Chad, you can bet there will be all sorts of lawsuits filed the day after this passes, if it passes. And our side can "judge shop" too. Even if it passes, which I believe it will, it will be fought and delayed for years and years. It probably will end up in the Supreme Court.
What really shocks me from an outsiders view is the fact that Colorado sportsmen seem surprised that this is happening. Its the price u pay for turning blue as a state. Lead bullet bans and grizzlies r soon to follow. On a positive not at least New mexico is gona go down in flames with u. Very sad to see a beautiful state with limitless natural resources join cali
Surprised? Not me. I've had the displeasure of watching what was an amazing state slide for years.
"Surprised? Not me. I've had the displeasure of watching what was an amazing state slide for years." Glunt X2
Yikes. I know it’s coming. Scary. I’d rather them introduce grizzly than wolves personally. Scary thing is just like the spring bear ban gonna get a bunch of city people voting on wolve reintroduction
I don’t understand how the wildlife officials can’t make the decisions on things like this. Why in the world Is it up to the public who has no clue on anything wildlife related