New Scent Delivery System
General Topic
If this is not allowed, please delete. Pat, this is the product I sent you a couple emails on and provided Paul's contact information. He is not trying to sell the product on this site, wants suggestions on how to reach small dealers. He is willing to discuss being a sponsor here.
I teach at a community college in the business department/economics. Our college also offers consultations to start-up businesses.
A few months ago the Small Business Center contacted me to see if I was willing to assist on a project. Being a known hunter on campus is what prompted them to ask.
An entrepreneur had developed a new product they wanted my opinion on.
The product is bio-degradable "crystals" that can be impregnated with scents. The entrepreneur is exploring all kinds of uses, but one that came to mind was to use them to attract wildlife.
The product almost looks like Rice Krispies, roughly the same size. It comes in a small package about 1/2 the size of a business envelope. You tear the bag open, dispense the product on the ground, no other prep is needed.
My initial reaction to hearing the pitch was to tell him the scent market is saturated, and I am not a big fan of them and have seldom used them. Mainly a cost barrier to me, I already spend enough on hunting.
I agreed to try the product. It was post hunting season, late January into February. I documented three different locations, and used a camera at each one. Two of the packages were impregnated with natural doe estrous urine, the third a synthetic doe urine. Synthetics will be offered as an option as many states are banning natural animal urine due to CWD and other concerns.
Guys, I was honestly surprised by the results as this was post rut. Within 48 hours max each site had deer checking the scent out. Deer would urinate, paw, etc. It was obvious these attractants were effective. The synthetic site had the least activity, but this was probably more due to location. All three sites were on my well managed farm that had a heavily used deer plot attracting 20 plus deer at a time with little other food sources available.
The scents attracted deer, which their activity no doubt attracted other deer. The product was completely absorbed by the ground after about three weeks, but deer kept checking out each spot.
This product has met the government certifications required and is approved for use. The entrepreneur would like to market it through smaller dealers, he is not interested in big box retailers. He is a very experienced and successful businessman.
I am going to provide this link to him so he can read your feedback and suggestions. FYI, it is school policy that someone in my position cannot except any form of financial payment or gift for these types of efforts. In full disclosure, Paul took me to lunch to discuss possible avenues of marketing this product to hunters, and I repaid him by taking him to lunch on Tuesday where I suggested this approach as one of several.
Hope the mods allow this thread to stay. Paul is not looking to sell this product to individuals on sites like this, but suggestions on how to distribute it through smaller dealers. He had a booth at this year's ATA show and one for next year as well in the Innovations area.
Thanks!
Cool. Does he have any interest in doing preorbital scents (Licking branches/scrapes? Maybe a tree hung pouch with the crystals?
The easiest and quickest way into the hunting product bonanza is for a few guys to kill a couple of monster bucks with it. In my experience the hunting community is fairly gullible and if they think something will give them an edge they will buy it.
Remember the movie "Field of Dreams"...…"build it and they will come".
Shaft,
He is reading this and I am sure as an entrepreneur he will consider any avenue that offers promise. He is not a hunter himself and that is why he asked for suggestions on how to contact small dealers. Other than the "testing" I did, I am not really involved. Thanks.
Maybe I am misunderstanding the post, however. Place a patent on the stated delivery system and then market it to the "big boys" in the business. Seems it would be the easiest solution. Note; they may find that the delivery system already had a patent, thus patent infringement. Better sooner then later.
He could also target archery shops with his product, and see if some would carry it. Perhaps give them a few free sample to try on their own. Doing an upstart takes time, and money. He may want to try contacting scent companies directly... Better have a patent first!!!!!
Patent is pending I believe. I provided a contact of mine that is friends with one of the largest bow companies and suggested the archery shop route. Thanks.
He does not have a hunting background, so some of the obvious approaches to experienced folks like yourselves are not as obvious to him. He is also bursting with tons of ideas, a true entrepreneur. Maybe a little impatient at times as he has been told this is a marathon, but would rather it be a 10K.
Charlie and I just communicated, so hopefully he can become a sponsor and that will allow more information about the company and product.
Thanks for your suggestions. Paul is reading this and chose not to respond until talking with Charlie. He does not want to do anything underhanded. Besides being impressed with the product, I have been impressed with Paul's integrity. That is what motivated me to try and help.
Thanks again.
Good morning...this is the entrepreneur bringing the product to market. I am in this forum to hear your thoughts on our current products and ideas for products in the future. Please tell me if, as a vendor, I am compromising the culture of Bowsite. I will answer questions in the forum or respond to only PM. This is your forum, not mine. Great comments....first, we do have a patent on the biodegradable material that absorbs the scents. Last year, only natural urine infused. This year, we added synthetic doe and dominant buck. We are field testing an apple scent. Our scents come from a field tested product already on the market. I considered the “big boys”. I am pursuing a different path. Create an independent brand. Market through my own website, but at a price higher than MSRP. I want to drive business to the independent and regional shops. I am not approaching the big box stores. I am not selling on Amazon. I know it will take longer; but, it is a channel that is more enjoyable....building relationships with store owners that have built relationships with their customers.
agree with shaft, definitely needs a bag or something to allow it to hang from branches. Two sides to every coin, it could be could used to deter animals away from things like gardens, flower beds, landscaping, etc.
Thanks Paul. PM sent. A red banner will show at the bottom of your screen to notify you that you have a private message. Just click on it.
I wish you would have had fourth spot where you just pissed on the ground and hung a camera. You would have gotten the exact same results as the other sites in your test. Deer would have come to it and pissed and pawed the ground and it would have become a community scrape as well.
Like as stated above we hunters are a gullible bunch. I really hate seeing a fellow hunter trying to help a guy try and deceive other hunters out of there money.
Scrappy,
I would not intentionally deceive anyone. I did not do the test you recommended. I can tell you that I urinate frequently on the ground in the same general area before going to my stand location on my farm. This has been intentional to relieve myself before getting into stand. I have never noticed deer defecating on my area like they did with these test spots.
Why do guys use urine bottles while in a tree stand? I have read the tests where human urine is checked out by deer, but not something I have witnessed with consistency. I try and keep my hunting area human scent free as much as possible.
Based on your logic, should guys just urinate on their scent wicks they are hanging around their stands and leave the Tinks at home?
There are some good suggestions here and how to use the product in ways maybe not originally thought of. Animals are attracted to scents. These cyrstals continue to leech scent after rains, unlike urine on the ground. Maybe Paul will impregnant them with human urine if it works, just kidding.
"Based on your logic, should guys just urinate on their scent wicks they are hanging around their stands and leave the Tinks at home?"
Yes Sir Frank you will get the same results. Just like you stated deer are attracted to scents. I've got hundreds of photos of deer using the spot where I pissed and hung a camera for months. Just like every time I use my decoy. I put it up and piss a circle around it. You have seen my videos of the deers reaction to it. If that is not proof enough that deer lures are not needed and a waste of a hunters money then nothing I say from this point on will make any difference.
Sorry about being a negative nanny here and getting this thread off track.
Hopefully, this doesn’t turn into ANOTHER “pi$$ing contest”! ;-)
Very interesting concept, scentmaker. Trapping scents might be another potential avenue to consider as well. I’m not one that uses hunting scents, but I wish you the best with your endeavor!
Scrappy, I have taken many a leak on my property but only know of 2 community scrapes. Is it the way I’m holding or my stream angle?
Deer check tons of things out, I have a pic of a 200”er licking a gut pile, but doesn’t mean I’ll kill a booner off a gut pile. I think it’s an interesting product that could work for the right situation, especially when trying to do trailcam inventory. All the best with trying to get your product on the market
If I were him I would consider bear hunters as well. Infuse with hickory smoke scent, beaver castor, honey vanilla, sow in heat etc.
That said, Scrappy is correct, I’ve been peeing in scrapes that I made for a decade. I’ve got 100’s of cam pics, it absolutely works and there has been at least one thread on it the last several years during deer season. Surprised you didn’t already know this. I wouldn’t necessarily let that discourage him though. As stated above, the general hunting populous would buy it, anybody that is already buying pee in a bottle.
I agree that almost any scent will attract some animals. I have actually pee'd on deer from my stand and I pee from my stand.
Perhaps the real market might be to sell just the product with no scent. Let people pee on it, get their ovulating partner to pee on it, dump grape Koolaid on it, put it in a bag with the tarsal glands from the buck your buddy just killed, put some in an active scrape then gather up and make one in front of your treestand. Endless variations with none of the state "bio" hazard contraventions.
Good point M.Pauls. I've had mixed results with the urine scents but I think in certain circumstances it can help. But I definitely disagree with peeing at your stand location. Anyone can fool the young bucks but putting down extra human scent will only increase your chances of pushing away the older mature bucks. Sure can you get away with it, maybe but doesn't mean its a good idea.
It would be his financial gain to sale it to one of the main distributors, the production cost, marketing/delivery expense can be a problem. The product can be easy to make it is getting it out and making a profit is a problem, but good for him never know where it will go until one step forward. This is what makes America great by taking a idea and run with it.
Gotta disagree, Hancock. Like others have stated above, I’ve got tons of pics of mature bucks taken over mock scrapes freshened with nothing but my own urine (and possibly other deer using it as well)
Thanks, I just talked to my bear outfitter this morning and will put the two in touch.
Did mention it for trapping scents to Paul, but that I am not a trapper.
Scrappy, I am not disputing your results, but obviously some have had yours and others not. The study I saw concluded estrous scent was more attractive than human urine.
As said above, if your way worked for everyone, I would have a large community year round scrape where I urinate. Not there.
These cyrstals are waterproof and last for up to three weeks. You said I should have done a test with just my urine, but you have no idea of this product and have not tested it. It's just not the same as putting a water soluble product on the ground. I have pissed in existing scrapes and the deer continue to use them, but they were already aware of that community scrape which is what you might have done. I placed this product near food plots but under brush where the deer would not normally travel. No scrapes around, no reason to go to spot X. They kept going back to them.
I was skeptical when I agreed to try it. As said I would not normally waste my time with scents. Here's the differences to me...it is small, leight weight, non-messy. You can refresh every 3 weeks or so and keep it going without the mess of a drip bag.
Scrappy, not all hunters are just gullible. I know a couple who swear by scents because they have worked for them. Many just want to put them out and think they don't have to pay attention to all of the other variables at play and then wonder why they don't work. I have been fortunate enough to hunt in above average deer densities and food sources, bedding areas and travel corridors all exist on the properties I hunt. This negates the need typically for decoys or scents, plus I am getting too old to lug the stuff around.
Do I think this product will put deer in a hunter's lap every time. Absolutely NOT! I do think it has the potential to be another weapon in our arsenal.
I have no skin in this game. I am sure Paul is happy for what I have done and expects nothing more. Again, I was just impressed enough with him and the product to do a favor.
I guess its possible T-Roy. I haven't tried it first hand I admit, but I have heard some say if you piss directly on the soil(no leaves or grass) that the ammonia will fizzle after its exposed to the oxygen in the air and within a couple minutes the deer cannot tell the difference. Its just seems risky I guess.
Habitat, my dad runs up to KC frequently. I might have him grab some to try at the farm this fall and use a camera over it.
Have your guy run to Wichita and talk to the guys at Diamond Archery. I bet they’d give him a shot.
If the entrepreneur "wants suggestions on how to reach small dealers"... maybe he should drive around looking for small dealers?
Or Hell, pick a market region, Google 'archery shops', exclude the Big Boys and off ya go?
Or are we here to discuss the effectiveness of this scent, where and how it should be placed? Or scents in general for that matter?
The goal for most start-ups is to create a viable business that starts to creep into bottom line of bigger corporations and then sell that business to a larger competitor. That is where the big money comes from.
"Creators" love to create and see their dreams succeed.
Who ever thought something silly called...."Deer Cocaine" would ever make it....lol
cnelk,
I got off track, my apology. Again, not being a hunter he wanted more suggestions than just one hunter could give him. Thanks.
To be clear, I didn’t disagree with peeing in scrapes, do it all the time. But peeing in random location might just give you the odd picture, I don’t think that in itself will start a scrape in any type of normal situation. Piss in a good location with a licking branch and tear the dirt up first with a stick and yes, absolutely, it should work.
Now if these crystals keep the urine scent “fresher” I could see them being an aid
The product sound a lot like one already on the market... you shake out scented crystal like material... or ad your own scent to neutral crystals... who knows give it a wiz, profits will be trickling in no time
Poor Bucks.… They only have like a month long window a year. I thought having to take off 5days a month was bad enough. I'd probably be fooled by them all after waiting with anticipation for 11months. LOL
You do realize Dead Down Wind is located in North Kansas City? That might be a great avenue to open the door for a mentor/equity partner to really get this off the ground. I also know of another equity group in Wichita that has a lot of outdoor products under their company's ownership---that might not be a bad route either.
Scent Crystal's (and similar pellets) are already available for hunting. See Hunters Edge Max44 doe in heat, Bob Kirschners silver top buck crystals, Mastins gel crystals, etc. You might say grave digger scent mate or primos red spot pellets are in many ways similar.
I would also agree that just peeing into a mock scrape can bring buck action, including mature deer. Observed with trail cams.
You sure have a great proving grounds to test out the product at your place Frank..... Good luck to your buddy !!!
Thanks Chris, you are always one class act!
I think they or something similar is already being used in the bear baiting community. I could be wrong though with regards to what you mean by biodegradable scent crystals etc. either way it’s already available through a few bear scents and bear baiting companies.
"the scent market is saturated..."
that was a pretty good pun for the market you are talking about with these scent crystals....
It all boils down to marketing!! It has been proven that new car smell placed in a scrape attracted just as many deer as fresh doe in heat urine. I use a lot of drag rags when I hunt ecsp right before the main rut. At that time if the right horned up buck comes along he will follow the smell of me pissing on my boots. Shawn
Candor,
Thanks for picking up on that;-)
This is a very engaged group.... the comments and suggestions are all of value. In summary, there are great ideas and viable alternatives to the use of any scent. Habitat for Wildlife was absolutely correct that I chose to only read until I had committed to become a sponsor of Bowsite.com. I have. I do not want to be “obvious by my absence”. I knew going in that one-half of the bow hunters do not believe in the use of scents.... but, then, the other half represents 1.6 million bowhunters with deer licenses. Shaft: We are reviewing a “tree hung” design.... more like the “DO NOT DISTURB” door hangers. What would you like to see? It is the infused material but made into a foam like piece. Designed to be effective for an extended time. Biodegrades. Nothing left behind. Could be any scent; for deer, bear...any attractant. Estrus. Preorbital. Dominant buck. Corn. Apple. Vanilla. Franklin: You are absolutely right! Exposure takes time...but I want to accelerate it as much as possible.... patience is not a virtue I have, if really a virtue at all. We have some great results on our testimonial page. Pointdogs: The patent is pending on the scent absorbing biodegradable delivery system. Scar Finga: My first initiative is with archery shops and “local” vendor. Farm & Home stores that are in cities smaller than the big box stores need. Samples are ABSOLUTELY available; if you have a store you like, please ask them to request their sample. Habitat for Wildlife: Thank you! I have gotten the media kit from Charlie. We will participate; determining the level. Hancock West: There are many potential applications; scents and repellents in a delivery system that biodegrades. Scrappy: There are so many opinions in the world, I can’t keep up. There are opinions on both side throughout this string. I certainly won’t use this forum to debate. Nor will I use this forum, or any public forum, to challenge the integrity of “a fellow hunter”. Because you are a hunter who does not use scents (except your own) doesn’t mean anyone is trying to “deceive other hunters out of there (correct, “their”) money.” I suspect dropping acorns doesn’t always work, but is the hunter who buys acorns being deceived out of their money? Kscowboy: Your dad won’t have to run to KC; available on our website and will ship in late August. I like your handle; the product is made in Kansas. I’ll check with the guys at Diamond Archery....I grew up in Wichita. I’ll introduce myself to Dead Down Wind. Thank you for the ideas. Cnelk: I do drive around....I love it! I’ve done multiple “road trips”; I have another one planed next week and going to IL and WI at the end of the month. From these conversations, I changed my case lots and offered a small case for the local dealer to “try it” without having to buy more than they could sell. Of course, all of this is dependent on it working. I want every new dealer to become a repeat dealer....only because it works and their customers keep buying it. BowSniper: I reviewed other products, including these mentioned, in my market analysis. What I did not see in the market is a “crystal” – we call it a “bead” to relate the message of releasing over time – that actually held the scent inside for a period of time. We infuse the scent. It releases over time – even surviving rain. It doesn’t dissolve into the ground where it can be further diluted. Totally new technology.... competition drives innovation, right? BIG BEAR: Thank you for your encouragement! Nick Muche: The description as “biodegradable” is used because it is made from 100% natural materials -even the coloration comes from wood particles – and it is completely gone after 4 to 6 months, dependent upon the conditions. Everything we develop is with the environment in mind. Hence, “BETTER THAN YOU FOUND IT” is included in our trademark.
I hear if you add a little ranch mix... oops wrong thread... nevermind.
Well scentman I have no idea if it works, but I'm usually in for a couple bucks on something I find interesting. Either way, I like the way you carry yourself. For that reason alone, if it becomes available in my neck of the woods I'd buy a bag for experimentational purposes. Assuming it isn't like $50 or something.
I guess there is a caveat to every promise ;)
I will take any donations that come my way lol! But you mean ScentMaker... and he does carry himself well and I predict he will do just fine!
You will see the product name after I have paid to present it to the participants in www.bowsite.com. Stay tuned. And, thank you, scentman....I try!
Scentmaker id try it. Keep at it. Doe in estraus would be most popular in my area. If your looking for smaller dealers in Illinois id call on Farm & Home, Farm King & Gamemasters.
Is that Blains Farm & Home? I’m trying with them...ask for Odin’s Innovations if you are in the store. I have just started a conversation with Farm King. I’ll call on Gamemasters. Thank you so much! Paul
Its not Blains. The corporate office is located in Quincy Illinois. I think they have close to a dozen stores but not a huge corporation. (217) 223-6970
Hardest part I have about peeing in scrapes is being able to freshen them all. I absolutely hate cutting off and saving it for the next scrape. If I unload it all in one scrape I feel like that's prob too much. I highly doubt deer turn a scrape into a lake.
