Is it just me, or.....
General Topic
Contributors to this thread:
GF 01-Sep-19
Missouribreaks 01-Sep-19
GF 01-Sep-19
PECO 01-Sep-19
WV Mountaineer 01-Sep-19
elmer@laptop 01-Sep-19
Trial153 01-Sep-19
PECO 01-Sep-19
Bou'bound 01-Sep-19
Surfbow 01-Sep-19
JusPassin 01-Sep-19
greg simon 01-Sep-19
drycreek 01-Sep-19
Irishman 01-Sep-19
itshot 01-Sep-19
GF 01-Sep-19
Pig Doc 01-Sep-19
JohnMC 01-Sep-19
GF 01-Sep-19
YZF-88 01-Sep-19
JTV 01-Sep-19
GF 01-Sep-19
Bake 01-Sep-19
butcherboy 01-Sep-19
Tilzbow 01-Sep-19
ryanrc 01-Sep-19
Surfbow 02-Sep-19
dallsheepstkr 02-Sep-19
TREESTANDWOLF 02-Sep-19
JL 02-Sep-19
Heritage 02-Sep-19
RIT 02-Sep-19
1boonr 02-Sep-19
GF 02-Sep-19
DConcrete 02-Sep-19
JL 02-Sep-19
Surfbow 02-Sep-19
sitO 02-Sep-19
orionsbrother 02-Sep-19
Grey Ghost 02-Sep-19
Bowfreak 02-Sep-19
Pig Doc 02-Sep-19
Pig Doc 02-Sep-19
Bake 02-Sep-19
TD 04-Sep-19
GF 04-Sep-19
Missouribreaks 04-Sep-19
Mule Power 04-Sep-19
Buffalo1 04-Sep-19
t-roy 04-Sep-19
'Ike' (Phone) 05-Sep-19
TrapperKayak 05-Sep-19
skipmaster1 05-Sep-19
TrapperKayak 05-Sep-19
TrapperKayak 05-Sep-19
Chasewild 05-Sep-19
Mule Power 05-Sep-19
GF 05-Sep-19
Shiras42 05-Sep-19
From: GF
01-Sep-19
Just thinking that it’s a little ironic to see guys expressing concerns over the potential impacts of e-bikes in the backcountry when they themselves probably wouldn’t even hunt the archery season if they weren’t allowed to use their high-speed, high-let-off compounds with all the releases and sights and the rangefinders and... and... and....

Seriously: how many of you guys would even bother with archery if you were limited to equipment where you knew that anything past about 20-25 yards was realistically out of your effective range? And what percentage do you suppose for not just the Hardcore Elite who hang out here, but what about Joe Average?

So what’s the difference between a Compound and a e-bike???

JMO, a lot of times with stuff like this it comes down to Just One Thing, and that is whether you are already using (or interested in using) the technology in question.

So next time you get bent out of shape because some Old Guy says he misses the quiet, low-pressure hunting experience that was easy to find before high-tech archery caught on, maybe you oughtta just stop and think about how you feel toward e-bikes or trail cams or drone video or a bow sight with built-in laser rangefinder capability or crossbows or thousand-yard riflery or whateverthehell “advancement” you think is taking it all a step too far.

Everybody understands that a line needs to be drawn SOMEWHERE, but where it needs to be almost always depends one where people stand to begin with. Seems like everybody is OK with drawing the line just about at the end of his own toes.

I don’t have all the answers, but I’ll offer one prediction and one guarantee:

I will predict that if CO permits e-bikes to do anything not currently allowed for motorized vehicles, Archery Season is headed for a lottery system.

And I will GUARANTEE you that if they were to ban compounds from the existing archery season, there would be no discussion of limiting tags whatsoever.

01-Sep-19
What about if scoped compound crossbows finally come to town during the general archery season.... as they have in many other states?

From: GF
01-Sep-19
Those are already permitted in CO, during Rifle, as they should be.

That does kind of make me wonder, though… I wonder how many compound shooters are in favor of the ban on sabots, pelletized powders and scoped muzzleloaders during the ML season?

From: PECO
01-Sep-19
In Colorado, sabots, pelletized powders, and scopes on muzzleloaders are not legal. I would still bow hunt if compounds were made illegal, I am already shooting recurves and longbows.

01-Sep-19
It's just you. Maybe a handful of other people too. But, there is no correlation between a compound and an ebike no matter how hard you try to make one.

From: elmer@laptop
01-Sep-19
Kind of a bad analogy/premise here. A compound bow doesn't come around a corner and plow into people on a trail like has happened multiple times in a walk in/non motorized area I hunt, or make ruts in already muddy trails making trail conditions worse.

From: Trial153
01-Sep-19
Asinine comparison.

From: PECO
01-Sep-19
Crossbows are not legal in the general archery season in Colorado, unless one has a permanent disability documented from a Dr. and whatever other red tape is involved with CPW. You don't need an "I can't pedal my bike" clause to use an e-bike. The e-bike can be used by the sick, lame, and lazy without a special permitt. I can not see the connection as mentioned here and the other post that an e-bike is the same as a crossbow.

From: Bou'bound
01-Sep-19
To answer the original question succinctly and stay on topic.......yes it is just you.

From: Surfbow
01-Sep-19
It's just you...

From: JusPassin
01-Sep-19
No, it isn't just you GF, and to argue an E-bike isn't a motorized vehicle is just stupid, and we all know you can't fix that.

From: greg simon
01-Sep-19
I would absolutely love it if all forms of compound bows were illegal to use in archery season. Ain’t gonna happen but it sure would suit me fine.

From: drycreek
01-Sep-19
It must be you, ‘cause it ain’t me.....

From: Irishman
01-Sep-19
GF, I think that your point is a good one, except you are wrong to compare compound bows with e.bikes. E.bikes will make practically zero difference in the number of bow-hunters, but advancements in compound bows certainly increased bow-hunter numbers. Compound bows today are so easy to shoot that just about anyone can buy a bow today and be ready to hunt tomorrow. It has made it so easy that (at least here in Montana) there are way way more bow-hunters than there were back in the 80's. E.bikes won't result in more bow-hunters, but maybe if we are lucky, it will allow the high numbers of bow-hunters to be more dispersed.

From: itshot
01-Sep-19
from a couple hours ago on another thread "But anyone who thinks this is good news should go read that post about the Elk herd near Vail. Twice if necessary to see why this ruling truly SUCKS for backcountry enthusiasts who enjoy some solitude."

answer? it's just you, or your punctuation creates the inability to convey a message

do you wear boots?

ironic

From: GF
01-Sep-19
“E.bikes will make practically zero difference in the number of bow-hunters...”

I dare say that depends a whole helluvalot on where you hunt.

JMO.... It’s only a bad analogy if you weren’t Bowhunting before Compounds made it “accessible” to many times more people than had been participating when it was all Stickbows by default.

From: Pig Doc
01-Sep-19
Bad analogy. Just more "my way is right and your way is wrong" bull crap. Does nothing but divide hunters when we should be uniting. But I agree that ebikes are clearly motorized vehicles and should not be allowed in wilderness areas.

From: JohnMC
01-Sep-19
We all know it is almost impossible to but the cat back in the bag. So much like most states did with drones. They made them illegal to use for hunting before they really caught on. Ebikes should be closely scrutinized before they become a big thing. IMO

From: GF
01-Sep-19
“E.bikes will make practically zero difference in the number of bow-hunters...”

I dare say that depends a whole helluvalot on where you hunt.

JMO.... It’s only a bad analogy if you weren’t Bowhunting before Compounds made it “accessible” to many times more people than had been participating when it was all Stickbows by default.

From: YZF-88
01-Sep-19
As long as we’re dreaming, I wish trail cameras, Instagram and YouTube were dead. I’ll take ebikes and crossbows for that trade.

From: JTV
01-Sep-19
as I said earlier before censorship took over ... its a stupid comparison ... more access is not necessarily a good thing ...

From: GF
01-Sep-19
“Does nothing but divide hunters when we should be uniting. But I agree that ebikes are clearly motorized vehicles and should not be allowed in wilderness areas.”

So we should be uniting.... as long as we don't do it in such a way that it costs YOU anything... but who gives a rip if a bunch of cranky Old Dudes say that the whole experience of Bowhunting is nothing like it used to be....

LOL... I’ll just say that the equipment has improved a lot faster than the arguments for saying that it doesn’t make any difference....

From: Bake
01-Sep-19
It may just be you. I personally try to live with a happy positive outlook. I don’t go out of my way to look for things that tick me off.

I would love an e-bike, but am waiting until the tech improves and becomes slightly more affordable. I also cannot foresee an instance to use one out west in public ground. I already have one of the hated side by sides for that

From: butcherboy
01-Sep-19
I get exactly what you are saying GF. I think a lot here completely missed what you were trying to express. Where does one draw the line? Someone complains about an ebike but love their high tech 80% let off, slider sight, mechanical broadhead, release aid, rangefinder, trail camera, Kuiu or Sitka gear, $600 backpack, $400-$500 boots, $70,000 truck, etc. how can one justify not using an ebike where allowed and have no problem with all the other high-tec gear used to increase their chances at harvesting an animal?

Yes, I shoot a compound, slider sight, and release. However, I shoot single bevel two blade broadheads and limit myself whennit comes to how far how I will shoot an animal. Yes, I would love to have an ebike to ride on open trails and roads where allowed. Much quieter and don’t tear up the ground like an atv. Which I have as well. Lol

From: Tilzbow
01-Sep-19
Pig Doc,

No bikes are allowed in wilderness areas.

From: ryanrc
01-Sep-19
It's just you

From: Surfbow
02-Sep-19
"JMO.... It’s only a bad analogy if you weren’t Bowhunting before Compounds made it “accessible” to many times more people than had been participating when it was all Stickbows by default."

Holler at the kids on your lawn about something else, perhaps something constructive, instead of creating division among bowhunters where there doesn't need to be. I know plenty of guys who hunt with trad bows who don't feel the need to get out and yell at all the compound guys...Maybe because they're too busy hunting and enjoying life?

02-Sep-19
Motorized is motorized. Sounds far fetched, but what happens when ATVs and SxS get electric motors?

02-Sep-19
E-Bike, Horse back, Helicopter, Canoe, Boat ....

They may get you to your hunting ground, but they sure don’t release the arrow or bullet.

Transportation is irrelevant.

From: JL
02-Sep-19
"Transportation is irrelevant"

^...X2...this. If someone wants to get back into some area, they will figure out a way. On top of that, if they are physically challenged and still want to hunt and get back in some remote place...more power to them, I salute them for having that strong desire. If something happens to me physically, I hope I can still hunt and fish where I want, when I want. Otherwise, IMO life would be boring.

From: Heritage
02-Sep-19
GF, bitterness will eat you alive. Take a breath, and let it go.

From: RIT
02-Sep-19
eat a snickers

From: 1boonr
02-Sep-19
You can learn to shoot a recurve accurately at ten yards in the same time a guy can learn to shoot 30 yards with a compound. The problem is you gotta be a better hunter to get within ten yards than just within 30 yards. Illinois started full season crossbow two years ago. The kill % was 15% on year one of overall archery kill. Year 2 it jumped to 30%. It will be 75% soon. Hunters for the most part are lazy and want to kill something as easy as possible. E bikes are just a tool so they can get there easier. The guys against E-bikes want them hard to get to places to themselves because it’s easier for them to kill something there. Trad guys want fewer people hunting, which results in less hunting pressure, so it will make it easier for them to kill something

From: GF
02-Sep-19
“If someone wants to get back into some area, they will figure out a way. On top of that, if they are physically challenged and still want to hunt and get back in some remote place...more power to them, I salute them for having that strong desire. ”

What about when their “physical challenge” is being a lardass.... by choice?

What if the way into the backcountry that they’ve chosen I’d illegal? What if their desire to get back there only became strong enough to move them to act on their desire once action became easy enough to suit their level?

So OK, let’s throw e-bikes out of the conversation and replace that thought with a scoped crossbow and an integrated rangefinder/laser sight that paints a red dot on your mark out to a quarter mile.

You guys think I’m so “bitter”; that’s just a convenient excuse for not being willing to consider how your actions (and the applicable legislation) might affect people who don’t want what you want. But you have no clue how quiet the woods were before Bowhunting got easy enough that you decided to try it.

You think equipment other than the bow itself has no impact on hunter density? Two words: Laser Rangefinder.

How many guys who believe themselves capable of taking shots over 40 yards actually hunt without a laser?

About 25 years ago, Randy Ulmer was asked what he thought was the max Ethical range for a Compound, and you know what he said? 35 yards.

And there were a LOT fewer hunters in the woods....

Same story with let-off and legalization of releases and tree stands. The easier it got, the more people wanted in. Now Colorado is talking about reducing archery tags and everybody here thinks it’s a travesty and wants to blame it on anybody and everybody else but the guy in the mirror.

From: DConcrete
02-Sep-19
It must be tough holding your head up with all those brains rattling around inside.

Tell me....when you’re thinking, does it sound like a bubble machine?

From: JL
02-Sep-19
GF....humble suggestion. You're getting all worked up over something that hasn't even played out yet. Let's see what happens and go from there. It's Labor Day....go fire up the barbie and burn some dogs and burgers and enjoy the time with friends and family.

From: Surfbow
02-Sep-19
"How many guys who believe themselves capable of taking shots over 40 yards actually hunt without a laser?"

How many trad guys believe themselves capable of taking shots over 10yds and also hunt without a rangefinder?

From: sitO
02-Sep-19
I’m oooooold! And I’m not happy!

And I don’t like things now compared to the way they used to be. All this progress — phooey! In my day, we didn’t have these cash machines that would give you money when you needed it. There was only one bank in each state — it was open only one hour a year. And you’d get in line, seventeen miles long, and the line became an angry mob of people– fornicators and thieves, mutant children and circus freaks — and you waited for years and by the time you got to the teller, you were senile and arthritic andyou couldn’t remember your own name. You were born, got in line, and ya died! And that’s the way it was and we liked it!

Life was simpler then. There wasn’t all this concern about hy-giene! It my days, we didn’t have Kleenex. When you turned seventeen, you were given the family handkerchief. … It hadn’t been washed in generations and it stood on its own …filled with diseases and swarmin’ with flies. … If you tried to blow your nose, you’d get an infection and your head would swell up and turn green and children would burst into tears at the sight o’ ya! And that’s the way it was and we liked it!

Life was a carnival! We entertained ourselves! We didn’t need moooovin’ pitchurrrres. In my day, there was only one show in town — it was called "Stare at the sun!” … That’s right! You’d sit in the middle of an open field and stare up at the sun till your eyeballs burst into flames! And you thought, “Oh,no! Maybe I shouldn’t’ve stared directly into the burning sun with my eyes wide open.” But it was too late! Your head was on fire and people were roastin’ chickens over it. … And that’s the way it was and we liked it!

02-Sep-19
" Someone complains about an ebike but love their high tech 80% let off, slider sight, mechanical broadhead, release aid, rangefinder, trail camera, Kuiu or Sitka gear, $600 backpack, $400-$500 boots, $70,000 truck, etc. how can one justify not using an ebike where allowed and have no problem with all the other high-tec gear used to increase their chances at harvesting an animal? "

I upgraded my backpack a few years ago. I don't think it made a difference in my chances to kill an animal. It's more comfortable packing them out though.

I don't have $400 boots, but they aren't $50 boots either. They're the boots that work for my feet. Since my feet are my ATV, if the only boots that worked were more expensive, I'd buy them.

We use mountain bikes in legal areas to cover some more ground. It's another kind of fun. If an e-bike is legal, I don't care if someone uses one.

People crashing in on your set-up... standing in the middle of a park at dawn... upwind... That can irk me. We just move on.

But I'm just another compound shooting schmuck with a rangefinder.

From: Grey Ghost
02-Sep-19
Is it just me, or is the OP trying a bit too hard??

Matt

From: Bowfreak
02-Sep-19
Ha ha ha! You nailed it sitO.

From: Pig Doc
02-Sep-19

Pig Doc's Link
"Motorized is motorized. Sounds far fetched, but what happens when ATVs and SxS get electric motors?"

You mean like this one? They have been out for several years. I guess "what happens when" is that you don't even notice they are there.

From: Pig Doc
02-Sep-19
"So we should be uniting.... as long as we don't do it in such a way that it costs YOU anything... but who gives a rip if a bunch of cranky Old Dudes say that the whole experience of Bowhunting is nothing like it used to be...."

I'm a cranky old dude and I ride and pack my own horses into elk country. Unlike you I don't impose my way of hunting on others. I doubt I'm going to see any eBikes where I typically hunt but if I do I'm not getting my shorts in a knot. Holier-than-thou is a lousy way to go through life.

From: Bake
02-Sep-19
So is your argument that every thing is too easy now, and there are more hunters . . . Which is bad?

I guess I can’t get on that train. I wish there were MORE hunters and archers. That’s the only way our pastime won’t die with us

From: TD
04-Sep-19
The deadly affliction of Curmudgeon has claimed yet another victim.......

Which begs a new (Government Grant) study...... is it really an affliction or can you just simply wake up (woke?) one morning and identify as Curmudgeon?

From: GF
04-Sep-19
“So is your argument that every thing is too easy now, and there are more hunters . . . Which is bad?”

I’m OK with more hunters in general; but let’s back up for a minute…

Archery seasons were set up as a set-aside, with the expectation that total harvest would be inconsequential, but CO (at least) had the sense to structure it as an either-or proposition.

And the difficulty of scoring with archery gear kept participation low, which was Good because low pressure sure helps a bowhunter, and popularity of the season + easier access to backcountry inevitably increase pressure.

It would be one thing if the equipment were still exactly what everyone had in mind back when the season was created , but the Archery Arms Race was never envisioned back when the season was created as an opportunity for a bunch of Retro types to go enjoy their exercise in self-flagellation....

04-Sep-19
With fewer places to hunt ( if that is true),.... we need less hunters, not more.

From: Mule Power
04-Sep-19
It wouldn’t matter if you hunted with a heat seeking missile if you couldn’t get in a position to aim it at your target. Access is everything. Stand on one side of a fence with no game on it and watch herds of deer or elk on the other side and you will clearly see the truth in that.

Therefore a device that gets you further faster and also leaves you with more energy when you get there has absolutely nothing to do with what kind of weapon or other technological gadget you are carrying.

Hike 8 miles and pick up substantial elevation and you will also have physical limitations that you wouldn’t have to overcome had a motor propelled you to your destination.

Last.... some, not all but some people who get things handed to them lack appreciation. I have seen the difference in attitude from SOME motorized travelers in the amount of litter they leave behind. Most.... not all but most back packers have more of a pack it in pack it out mentality.

But I’ll repeat myself from the other thread “It’s freakin motorized so should be governed by motorized regs!” Period.

Carry on......

From: Buffalo1
04-Sep-19
It’s definitely just you !

From: t-roy
04-Sep-19

t-roy's embedded Photo
t-roy's embedded Photo
That was a great Dana Carvey impression, sitO!

05-Sep-19
Whoa, for a minute I thought I hit the LeatherWall! Lol

From: TrapperKayak
05-Sep-19
"..Too much time on my hands..."

From: skipmaster1
05-Sep-19
its Going to have to stop somewhere. Eventually technology is going to make every tag a draw, because success rates will keep climbing. (In General) it’s still possible to have great hunting in most places if you are willing to work hard. A lot of the hard work is getting there. If it becomes easy to get everywhere, success rates will continue to climb because more people will choose to use technology to get to places that once took a little effort. I shoot everything from a suped up compound to stick bows and stone points. I wish they’d put the genie back in the bottle of Archery equipment, but that ship has sailed.

From: TrapperKayak
05-Sep-19
Getting there does not equate to success in harvest. In fact, I think it is the opposite. Those who take the easy route, motorized rides, and roads, etc. have a tendency to be less ambitious than those of us who hike in long distances, and I think that kind of attitude - not having to work hard for something in every way, spells failure in most cases. I rarely ever see shootable game while in my vehicle, on a motor bike, bike, or any other automated conveyance to a hunting spot, but when I'm hiking, I not only see more, but actually have an opportunity to shoot more since I am actually hunting when going in/out of the intended hunting spot. I estimate road-hunter success to be about 5-10%, and probably at least double that for hikers and horsemen. Sure, getting there quicker is one thing, but there are so many variables, I think motorized vehicles hinder the actual hunting experience, not improve it. I'll continue to walk and leave the motors to those with other ambitions. I average about ten miles a day in just every day life. During hunting season, esp. in the mountains (anywhere, east and west), that average distance more than doubles. And I have been very successful over the years at taking game on foot, and getting it out the same way. I'd RATER walk, or if necessary, ride my mountain bike under my own power. But I almost never get any shot opps. when biking.

From: TrapperKayak
05-Sep-19
'Getting there does not equate'.. That should say 'getting there easier' .

From: Chasewild
05-Sep-19
Would love to see e-bikes go away. For.ev.er. Would also love to see bows go back to 20 years ago. Would definitely love to see draw in more areas in Colorado.

From: Mule Power
05-Sep-19
I think it has to do with the overall attitude shift from generation to generation. I don’t think anyone can deny that work ethic is going downhill. These days little league sports teams don’t get rewarded for working hard to achieve a goal. Instead everyone gets a participation trophy just for showing up. The problem is later in life they go off the deep end when a coworker get the promotion they wanted. Sometimes the result is catastrophic... school shootings, workplace shootings. We never had those when people learned to accept consequences for their actions or that some people had more success than those who didn’t care to work for it.

Maybe they should have a ski lift going to the top of Mount Everest so we can all say we have what it takes to summit the peak. Lol

From: GF
05-Sep-19
Hey, Trap -

I don’t care if the Johnny-come-latelies fill their tags or not - as long as they’re not losing wounded animals. I’m more concerned about the pressure they’ll bring to the drainage.

From: Shiras42
05-Sep-19
I feel so conflicted...I'm a trad guy with an e-bike. LOL

And if you are hunting "difficult back-country" and there is a guy with an e-bike there, you are not in as difficult area as you claim because contrary to what some believe they will not go up a 20 degree shale slide. :)

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