Contributors to this thread:
Being eaten alive..
Hind quarters nearly consumed while the deer loved
Hind quarters nearly consumed while the deer loved
Found this on the way down from camp yesterday....
The deer was very alive when I approached.. no doubt the sound of my quad ran them off..... I dispatched it quickly... I've got gut wrenching video.. but not much... Couldn't let it suffer another second...
Hunt predators boys... Our undulates are counting on us .
Yotes or wolves I guess it doesn’t matter glad you were there Lewis
As horrible as it seems to us it is the natural way of things. I would describe this to the bunny hugger who tells me I am cruel when l to place a bullet or arrow into the lungs of an animal I plan to consume. I at least wait the seconds for the animal to die before dealing with it. Nature can be tough by human standards.
This has gone on for eons, in the woods and water. In an effort to capture or kill quickly for sport, man causes a lot of wounding and suffering of wildlife too. What are the solutions?
the only good 'yote or wolf is a dead one ... same goes for humans ... predators need managed ...
Mother nature can be a cruel mistress
Nature always wins. As a species we will go extinct one day and no one will cry. The more we forgo our relationship to the natural environment the more exposed we are. Feeble creatures sitting on rock floating thru the universe, oblivious to our species demise.
Nature at its finest...Been going on long before any of us came along!
Coyotes and possums will walk on our graves.
All the anti-hunting folks need to see this. ALL animals will die. Every one of them. So the question then becomes, HOW will they die? Starvation? Injury? Disease? Predators (large and small)? Most likely it'll be a combination of these with a predator of some sort involved at the end.
If I were a deer and had to choose between what this animal had to go through, or a well placed arrow or bullet in my vitals where I'd literally be dead on my feet in less than a minute, it wouldn't even require any thought at all. I'll take the arrow or the bullet.
The animals that we kill while hunting are the LUCKY ones.
Good point Woods....no animal deserves to die like this.
It IS kind of a shame that the “nature” shows never show how prey animals die.
Nothing like a reality check now and then...
In one sense, you could say that this deer was LUCKY, in that svrelk came by when he did.
Several years I was gun hunting for deer with some friends. On the last day myself and one other guy posted on the edge of a huge grassy swale while the 3 other guys in our group pushed through it. I had a small 8 pointer that some idiot took a shot at while it was either going directly away from or coming at (and probably running). Half the side of the deer's face was shot off, with an eyeball hanging. It stopped, looked at me, and if it could have spoken it would have said....."please do it".....I did. Not a memorable hunt by any degree, but that deer was lucky that it did come by me. MUCH better than what the coyotes would have done in due course.
What else do you expect them to eat? Can't remember any fast food for coyotes or wolves. Its natures way of dying by predators, any worse than a deer being shot in the gut, or thigh? What's more natural? That animal,was in shock shortly after being brought down, it's natures way. I agree with putting it down, but did you by chance wait for the predators to come back and get off a shot or two?
We all know it happens. But when wolves are reintroduce and destroy our deer population and elk and moose. It angers people that live here and live with wolves. Every Hunter should also hunt predators Also. Hunt
“Good point Woods....no animal deserves to die like this.”
Hey guys probably 90- 95% of wild animals freeze to death, starve to death, or are eaten to death. It may happen after they get old or sick but it’s going to happen one of those ways nearly every time be it mouse or moose.
It’s not about deserving or getting screwed. It’s about life
Just remember that if you are going to run on the emotions of it all you are operating under the same logic as the antihunters. The wolves and coyotes are not evil for doing what they do. We are not either.
Jake, you are wise beyond your age... excellent statement.
When people left the farms to go to the cities during the industrial revolution humans changed their outlook on many things. One was the reality of life and death. As a society we’ve lost the perspective of what happens in nature.
Death is Nature's greatest invention, without it life itself would be impossible and therefore ultimately it has always been a creative force.
Predators are not the enemies of prey, they are both long time lovers in that each has perfected the other...
Some good, concise posts on this thread.
yes, predation IS natures way, something must die for something to live ...
IMO that's what shock is for. That moment that often happens when the animal "gives up". To lessen the impact of what the instincts read is about to happen. This in itself has always influenced my thoughts as to intelligent design..... as I can see no biological imperative or reasoning for it. It seems to be more of an action towards mercy than survival, as pure natural selection might evolve. I like to think it is there for a reason from a merciful creator rather than by random chance.
svrelk, good on you for doing what needed to be done. Such things often need some inner "strength" to do what has to be done. It's not easy, much less what some clueless anti would think we see as "fun". Mercy is a "divine" human construct and partly what separates us a bit from "animals"..... may even bring us a bit closer to the Creator.... made in his image so to speak. Yes, death is 100% unavoidable by both man and beast. And 100% necessary. Mercy does not preclude nor exclude that and stands alone in it's moral construct. I'm not a particularly religious man, but certainly always open to and searching for some "truth".
WRT predators, we are predators. Inarguable fact. And not a one naturally exists that does not do what it can to eliminate others to save and protect what they see as theirs for themselves. Be it personal property or game. It's hard wired into everything and everyone. Wolves, bears, lions, etc will even kill others of their own species to protect what they see as theirs. Mankind has obviously done so as well over millennia.
My apologies for the rambling..... it fun sometimes getting knee deep.... but when I get waist deep in the weeds (much less over my head....) it's time to back out and and find another way around..... =D
The natural state of our children is to die like that ... if we take averages seriously. Changes things a little. I personally don’t like witnessing suffering.
We have all seen death in the wild, it is part of the big scheme. But, I believe coyote kills are some of the worst, they always eat out the hams first, even if alive. Other predators may attack the throat or neck or head but the yote always attacks from behind. Cut off blood supply perhaps by femoral and begin eating while the thrashing is going on.
Not just coyotes - wolves, too. Actually all of the canids, pretty much.
TD has something of a point, though it’s not shock so much as endorphins - natural opiates more powerful than morphine. Same things that create “runner’s high”...
So no, not a pretty way to go, but maybe not as painful as it looks - nor as horrifying as it would be for a human, who would understand what was happening.
JMO, the worst thing about Pain is Fear: the fear that the pain will get worse, or that you’re gonna die as a result. I don’t think animals go there.
I’ve made more than a few decisions that have had painful consequences - dislocated shoulder, blown ACL, various (multitudinous!) cuts & bruises... 6 or 7 concussions... Oh, and a dentist when I was a kid who used to say “Oh, you don’t need a shot for this - it’s just a little one!”
Anyway, I’ve talked myself down from the pain many a time... once you recognize that it’s not getting any worse, it loses its hold on the fear. It sucks, but if you can deal, you can deal.
And since animals don’t seem to have a concept of death, they don’t worry about dying. So add the endorphins and their suffering may not be as awful as it looks....
But it sure looks awful....
Think a pike or musky worries about it like an anti when they tear a prey fish in half, swallow them hole?? An eagle knocks a duck to the ground only to tear its head apart?? Nope, so why as humans do we care? Because we are at a higher level and can be anthropomorphic, supposedly to develop compassion. Unfortunately some humans still don't get it. No respect for the wildlife they pursue just another game for fame and self-fulfillment. Close shots for me take care of business as quick as possible. Why? because its the nature of things and most natural predators are gone. But we still are conflicted when one that is still around does its job, managing the population. Thing is the predators also need to be managed. To think humans haven't been involved in that is a gross misunderstanding. So antis you have it wrong on multiple counts.
Whats worse, dieing like this in the natural world, or when weak or sick, injured unable to go on and death comes, or living in an infirmary helpless in a bed or wheelchair, slumped over for years, soiled clothes being changed by others, can't get yourself a meal, and lonely stuck inside your aged useless body. Living like THAT is true suffering, not the natural death, even slow like above, because even that is relatively short term. My uncle, 95, in that 'Home', and all his floor mates, invalids, are the ones suffering. Its unnatural, and way worse that ANY natural death.
It's sad to see, because I'm a human. Maybe deer feel it's sad, I dont know. But it's also what happens in nature. I dont begrudge the animal's that did that to the deer, they were after the same thing I am.
my faith in you fellow Bowsiters remains intact, some real good thoughts being shared here... and most on this thread are in agreement on such a hot topic... whuda thunk!
Trapperkayak: You are DEAD on! Medical science, for all it's positives (I'd of been dead 21 years ago without a stent), also has a very dark negative. Yes, life is life, but what about the QUALITY of that life? Difficult questions to say the least.
I can’t speak on wolves. But coyotes on the other hand, can’t be controlled by “hunting”. They will self regulate as needed by either pressure or prey.
In reference to the OP, while we feel it’s sad, the predator fills its belly. Circle of life. Hakuna matata!!
It's harsh to look at and easy to judge, but if any of us had to live on what we could catch with our teeth we would resort to less humane methods in a heartbeat. We are the strange ones. We have tools at our disposal to help us kill our prey. Even more strange, we keep most of our prey inside fences and feed it so we can kill our food at our discretion.
We have the luxury of full bellies
Lou, it even gets worse than just old-age or unhealthy suffering. It is often times selfish neglect or intentional abuse. My uncle called me this morning saying his nurse staff hadn't checked in on him for the last 13 hours. He had been stuck in his recliner chair overnight, instead of being put in bed, no one to help him go to the bathroom, and stuck sitting there all that time while he rang the buzzer all night. What the Heck were they doing that was so important?? As if getting to the point of dependence isn't enough, those who you depend on are too damn lazy to care for their patients. Some 'caregivers', its WORSE suffering than being eaten alive. And people are concerned about animals suffering in nature, where it is the rule. Ya wanna be concerned about something suffering, do the Christian thing and go help someone truly in need, happily, with enthusiasm and true empathy. I got on the phone with their personnel and read those nurses the riot act, and they got the message. They should be even more empathetic since that is their job. Sometimes money has a way of making people less sensitive. Sorry, but I'm venting. Suffering is often unnatural and unnecessary in the human world. In nature, its the way it is, Its sad, but its reality. Our way is almost twisted, far too PC!
Two days ago I found this. It is fresh, no stink at all. There is a large pack of totes in this area, and last winter I found your dead deer that they killed. Gone in a day, they get eaten quicker when cood is scarce in winter. I am thinking this one met the same fate as the Ops pic, and was being chewed on alive. They aren't as ravenous rivht now, or he'd be devoured. But I still think it's better to go this way than the way our institutionalized elderly go, looking out the window daily at the graveyard next door.
yotes, and four, not your. food not cood. sheesh, spellcheck sucks esp. when it doesn't even spell correctly. Maybe its my fat fingers on the phone.
The circle of life ends and carries on through death. I don't fault predator animals for doing what they do, after all I'm a predator animal trying to do the same. We only use different tools. My only gripe is similar to Hunt's. Don't shove predators down my throat that aren't occurring here naturally and don't tell me they can't be managed. Outside of that the rest is just a part of nature doing what nature does.
I'd rather shoot a yote or wolf than a bone and Crockett.
Ever meet people so smart that they're actually dumb? It goes the same way with civilizations that evolve. I think as Americans and Canadians we are "over the hill" so to speak. People out think themselves. That's how we end up re-introducing wolves. Our ancestors would roll over in their graves. They'd be saying: "DO YOU KNOW HOW HARD WE HAD TO WORK TO GET RID OF WOLVES??? AND NOW YOU'RE BRINGING THEM BACK?!??! It seems that learning from the past is not something we as humans are very good at in the grand scheme of things. It's kind of funny when you look back into the bible, humanity has been fighting the same fights way back then, the same perversions way back then as we do today. Nothing changes.
"DO YOU KNOW HOW HARD WE HAD TO WORK TO GET RID OF WOLVES??? AND NOW YOU'RE BRINGING THEM BACK?!??! Does this thought apply to our bison, black bear, and Carolina parakeet? Our ancestors thought they were pests or in the way of our progress.
Pretty sure that the bison were killed off to supply the Markets and to starve out the Native HUMANS who were felt to be in the way. Wouldn’t surprise me to find that the markets for furs and bear grease did in the Black Bears. Don’t know nuthin’ ‘bout no parakeets.
One thing I do I know: Bear and turkey and Elk and Sheep and Moose and other reintroductions/reestablishments are sustainable because people who want them around are willing to PAY MONEY for the management thereof.
Just a hunch : When people who just like the idea run up against people with a financial stake in the outcome, the people who are playing for keeps will win out.
Where have we had to introduce black bear? I've heard of "endangered" bears in FL but my understanding that was habitat loss, not eliminated because they were "pests". WRT "pests" cockroaches, mice, termites, etc. are all "natural" and nature. I kill the hell out of each and every one I find..... if you want to "introduce" them, by al means please do so...... in YOUR home and not where they effect my home and my life.
Just because it's not your ox doesn't mean it's not someone elses or that it doesn't matter that it gets gored.... or eaten for that matter.....