CWD Prion Study
General Topic
Rocky Mountain Labs here in western Montana recently completed the first study of its kind to determine the effectiveness of sterilizing knives and saws against CWD Prions. A 40% bleach solution soak for 5 minutes will kill surface prions. However, tissue prions are unbelievably tough. They tested infected pieces of brain tissue and soaked them in 100% bleach solution for 30 minutes and it didn't stop Prion activity.
I didn't realize how tough the Prions are. The problem is the bleach doesn't penetrate the tissue apparently.
So we need to spray the entire deer habitat with bleach. Sounds like a great plan
There is concern with the processing of wild game in commercial food processing facilities. Liability?
One local butcher featured in Montana Outdoors could potentially double his profits as he said he'd charge double to process individually instead of "batch" processing. But, the liability risk could run anyone out of business.
Ya, not a good situation.
The biggest threat to humans from CWD is getting in a wreck with a texting/drunk driver while driving to or from the testing facility.
So far there is no evidence that processing or eating CWD carrying critters poses a health risk to humans.
Rough county- I would prefer to pay double and get my own clean meat back rather then some killed by some idiot that doesn’t know how to field dress without popping the guts
Hold on a minute.....wasn`t there a thread awhile ago where the butchers claimed there was no such thing as "batch processing"...lol
Bleach is one of the greatest inventions in history....from CWD to addict`s syringes.
Prion is a protein (misfolded) not a living organism like a bacteria or virus. There is nothing to "kill". The goal is to denature the protein so it has no effect on normal proteins.
Wonder if you wanted to "clean" you own knives and equipment where you would source 40% bleach? Most of the store bottles fall some where between 5% and 7% active. I have seen some at 12.5% labeled concentrate. I am sure it could be ordered or maybe made from dried pool shock but probably not readily available off the shelf for the average person.
Lou,
Not concerned about it being a threat to us, I am not convinced it is a threat to the herd. Are there any documented reports of massive localized die-offs from CWD like we see with EHD?
The trouble is, prions can and will mutate. They have tests that show they can be transferable to rats now. I'm planning on paying the $50 to have my deer tested before I let my kids eat the meat.
I don’t think most processors grind up different peoples meat together so that you get someone else’s meat
However most will process yours, then right after that process someone else’s without throughly cleaning and sterilizing their equipment.
So if a processor is ethical, under current practices you should get YOUR meat back. But it could be contaminated with prions from the deer right before you. I think that is what they mean by batch processing.
Maybe so but giving you back any meat other than yours is unethical. Would never go back to one that did that.
I have seen the process of mine and he keeps it all separate.
That said, I process all my whitetail myself. I do take elk to a processor
ohiohunter: agree. Ultra high heat and/or strong acids break down the bonds of amino acid building blocks of proteins (prions) which also destroys their shape and so how they interact with their environment. Not all proteins are as tough to denature as prions.
sivart that sucks you got to pay tp have your deer tested. Up here in alberta you can drop the head at any drop off location and get results back for free.
I've never had one test positive, but its just starting to make headway into my area. If one ever did it would fed to the dog. No need to take the risk when I got 7 deer tags between me and my wife.
As far as I know there is no known cases of it happening and if it did he'd get it anyway considering it's spread through feces and dogs are dogs lol. Never seen him able to pass up a good sniff of some fresh coyote poop lmao.
If all you take out of the field is the meat and don't break into the spinal fluid, internal organs, head, aren't you a bit safer?
Bugle has a recent article on it and that was the impression I got. It's in the nervous system and lymph nodes so they were recommending the gutless method.
Prions are in the meat as well
In one of the studies here in the core endemic area in NoCo, biologists tried to infect predators with CWD. Couldn't do it.
Now the city guys will have another excuse just to kill animals for the antlers and let the meat go to waste. People from all over the world have been killing and eating animals for decades in Colorado that have CWD.
Way back when CWD first became a household word, at least in hunting households, Dr. James Kroll predicted that CWD was a tempest in a teapot. I didn’t know then whether to believe that or not, but now I’m inclined to.
Dr. Kroll is on the payroll of deer breeders and seems to be slanted their way. As a veterinarian, I now take what he says with a grain of salt.
The mentioned article doesn’t really help us. The bleach you buy at the store is 5-6%. They were using 8 x that strength to kill prions on instruments. And it doesn’t kill the Prions in tissue or in soil. So what good does that info do us? None so far that I can see. I doubt processors will deal with bleach that strong. They would have to wear gas masks. And certainly can’t afford the time and trouble to do it between each animal.
What do I think? That is absolutely NO evidence that CWD has ever been transmitted to humans. So if you want to give me $10,000 to eat a positive deer, I would do it. But wouldn’t feed it to my grandkids or anyone on Chemotherapy (immunocomoromised) for any price
txhunter58, your last paragraph appears (to me) to agree with what Dr. Kroll said about CWD. I don’t have any evidence that he’s on deer breeder’s payrolls, do you ? If you do let’s have it, and we will all be enlightened.
No, I don’t agree with Dr. Kroll’s position on CWD. If at all possible, I hope I never eat a positive deer. But playing the odds, if you have one and what to pay me the $10,000.....
You don’t have to do many internet searches to discover Dr. Krolls ties to deer breeders. This was a quote in the first one I turned up:
“Kroll’s views regarding CWD in wild deer populations are sometimes criticized because of his business ties to deer farming and private hunting ranches”
Read more here: https://www.centredaily.com/sports/outdoors/article233110077.html#storylink=cpy
I am a veterinarian who has deer farm clients. So I try and see both sides of an issue. But I will always side with the natural resource. And the fact is that deer farms are responsible for transporting CWD in trailers to new and distance areas. . And I don’t want CWD in new areas of Texas or on my ranch
Anyone worried about CWD needs to process their own and only after testing. Its not possible to rid knives, grinders, tables, etc of prions without heat so high it would ruin it. Commercial processors around here have likely done hundreds or maybe thousands over the last 20 years. Maybe over the last 100 years. It may have always been around.
I'm munching jerky right now from the hottest of the hot spots. I didn't get it tested. If I develop some holes in my brain I will report back.
I am sure you will be fine.
Doesn’t mean we need to not worry about allowing it to spread. That is what many deer breeders want: Open the borders and move deer freely. No worries......
I will never agree to allow that on my watch.
Montana provides free testing to all who submit samples. I get all my animals tested. I eat it before the results come back, but I don't let my kids or grandkids eat it until I have a negative result. I process all my own meat from start to finish.
txhunter, I can’t imagine where the $10,000 figure came from as that sentence makes no sense, but I agree that no sane person wants the disease to spread. I also don’t hold with pen raising deer and certainly not transporting them. I have no problem with high fences, but not to pen raise deer. I’m aware that Dr. Kroll gets to hunt in places that I never could, that may be what you are talking about, I didn’t look up the story and don’t intend to, not that interested in it. Dr. Kroll is nothing to me, I just agree with lots of the same things he does, but probably not all.
If you have deer farm clients, seems like you’re on their payroll also.
Think again. They need me, not the other way around.
There is good and bad in everything.
Not sure what is hard to understand. I will not knowingly eat CWD meat. However, the odds of it causing me any harm is astronomically small. So for the right price I would eat one known to be infected. Wouldn’t worry me that much. But no one would ever take me up on it. It was just a bogus offer to make a point.
this whole cwd thing is like the y2k scare, much to do about nothing. lots of money made by creating a crisis that does not exist. in all of human history there has never been any evidence that cwd has done any long or short term damage to any herd of big game animals on the planet.
It was first identified in Colorado in the late 60’s. You can kill a deer in that area today that can test negative. I don’t want it in my area but it ain’t the end of hunting when it gets here
Kentucky: 98% chance it was created in pens of deer that were being experimented on at CSU in the 60s. So “all human history” doesn’t apply. You are just regurgitating propaganda from deer farms
If we have learned anything this year, it is that organisms mutate and survive in some bizarre ways. And they sometime change species. Before this year, you could have claimed that in all human history, Covid hadn’t severely affected the human “herd”.
But I actually wish CWD was the Covid equivalent. Our herd of people will eventually develop a herd immunity. That doesn’t happen with CWD. And once in your area, there is no way to ever get rid of it. At CSU, they removed topsoil, put down lime and new topsoil and waited several years before returning deer back to those pens where it originated. The new deer still got CWD
not the least worried. Sounds like a problem created to then give us a reason to find a solution for it. We panic over everything foreign now days, its time we relax just a little and realize we are not super beings capable of understanding and solving EVERYTHING in mother nature.
its funny how we believe we can solve all problems, when we mostly createde the large amount of issues that exist today.
Has anyone yet tested if hoarding toilet paper will rid the herds of CWD?
