Compound bows vs. assist bikes
General Topic
Ok, let's be honest. Compounds are the "assist bikes" of the archery world. They use technologically-engineered mechanical "engines" to make them easier and faster and exponentially more efficient than the true stick and string bow. They allow the masses to enjoy bowhunting as never before, even into advanced age and with physical issues. Interesting that the majority of anti assist-bike people eagerly embrace compounds because of the advantages, but diss assist-bikes for the same reason.
So a question- if compounds were only allowed during gun seasons, would you continue to hunt the way you hunt now, but with a recurve or longbow?
I have rucurve bows, a long bow and a compound. There is no assist getting my compound to full draw. It does not have an e-motor. I'm not buying your connection between e-bikes and compounds. However I would be fine hunting with a recurve if compounds were not permitted in archery season.
Ummm, dual programmed cams dropping the letoff to 80% is not an assist?
"Engine: a machine with moving parts that converts power into motion."
Exactly what a compound bow is..
I would probably hunt with a long bow. But would starve. No problem with your argument. (Debate)
A compound is definitely a mechanically assisted device. No way could I shoot a 65-70 pound stick bow. But I can easily shoot a 65-70 pound compound.
And yes, I would shoot a stick bow to stay out of the gun season.
Dont forget about the hand-held trigger 'assist' many use on compounds
A compound is a 10 speed bike. A trad bow is a bike with no gears. I think a e-bike is a crossbow.
Ebikes are just like crossguns. Compound still requires you to draw the bow. A crossgun all you do is pull the trigger just like an ebike. Zoom zoom.
A motor is a motor trying to say it ain't still doesn't change anything.
There is no assistance getting a compound to let-off. It is still like pedaling a regular bike up the hill. You guys are telling the other guy with shoulder surgery to shoot a recurve because it's "smoother" to draw and "easier" on the shoulder. I'm still not buying the connection.
Both, but would have to go buy a compound to participate in gun. The hut to hut bike trail passes through a area I hunt. Hats off to those that can peddle that.
Long bow = single speed Compound = 26 speed mountain bike Crossbow = electric bike
Sorry Lou, I couldn’t help myself!!!! For the record I would be alllll for primitive only. Bring it on. No wheels or sights on bows, no rifling or scopes on muzzleloaders and open sights, single shot, etc on rifles. The goal would be to limit archery to 50 or less ml to 100 or less and rifles to 200 or less. You’ll never be able to completely limit it, but it would be a start!
E-bikes and compounds - I like both, and use both. Wish I could afford my own e-bike. If I had to only use a trad bow during archery season, I’d prolly just go back to rifle hunting, as I am the world’s worst traditional archer. :)
Alright you guys! You want me to come back there??...
To each his own. If you like using an ebike during hunting more power to ya.
Doesn’t most everyone drive a vehicle to their hunting spot? Hmmm...
Driving a vehicle to your hunting spot (on a road) and driving an e-bike on a trail that was designated as closed to motor vehicles are two different things.
I can't control that some land management buffoons have defined "a little motor" to be the same as "no motor". And as such if the conditions warrant I might very well use an e-bike: if the rules allow for it, it is what it is.
But I don't have to jump on the bandwagon to embrace that it's OK to use "a little motor" where it previously was not allowed.
It's akin to arguing to allow wheels in a Wilderness, which would be an entirely different method of accessing land than the historic method.
The argument of impact being similar between MTB and EB is also moot. There is virtually zero impact to landing a chute plane in a Wilderness. Far less impact than marching a mule train to the same place. Yet I would HOPE we would all be on the same page in denouncing a change that would allow chute plane (or helicopter) access into a Wilderness?
Why do we need to blindly embrace methods to make things easier?
I agree the compound has made bowhunting easier. But that ship sailed decades ago. It ain't changing. Just because a decision was made to allow them is viewed as "bad" doesn't justify making another "bad" decision does it?
Very different IMO
I have them all 4. Trad bows, compounds regular bikes and ebikes. The difference is that everyone can become proficient with 3 of them in short order. Only one of them is different in that many people regardless of how hard they try can not become proficient killers with a trad bow. Everyone can ride a regular bike, but not everyone can really kill with a trad bow.
There's a reason if you check out the barebow hunters facebook group, most trophy photos are of stumps, and most of the hunting pictures revolve around where they went "roving" with their latest friend. There are definitely killers that use trad bows, but reality is what it is ;)
@smarba - no where in this thread was a mention of using ebikes on designated roads closed to motor vehicles.
There are many places that have approved motorcycle trails that can be used to access hunting areas. The typical mx/dirtbiker is barely even up yet by the time Im headed out in the morning
Just curious what research you can point to that supports your statement, "the majority of hunters that don't support assist bikes do support compound bows". Seems a little bogus.
A compound is not an engine. A compound uses mechanical advantage to reduce the holding weight. A closer analogy is that we as archers are the engine. We use power (energy from food that we eat) to create motion (drawing the bow).
A traditional bicycle may be more efficient than hiking in but an E bike will do the actual work and take the rider up the trail. Trails open to only foot and bike travel should be just that. An E-bike is a motorized vehicle by definition it has an electric MOTOR.
Weekender, from all the numerous threads on Bowsite where compound shooters are assist-bike bashers. Every thread where someone asks an honest question about assist-bikes devolves into a forum to bash users with accusations of "lazy", effiminate (dildoes), cheating, whatever. Yet those same bashers have no qualms about using a highly engineered shooting engine because it is easier, faster, more efficient, requires less effort, less practice. It's entertaining, and indicative of human nature. Ok for me, not for you, "but...but..."
Saying a compound bow isn't an assist engine doesn't make it not an assist engine. By every definition, that's what it is.
Id still hunt with recurve or longbow. Because its all I own. Point is truth only for people who see it as the truth. If it doesn't work for them then its not the truth.
As said above, a compound bow is more like a mountain bike (multiple gears to improve efficiency) with a recurve more like a single sprocket cruiser bike. E bike a whole different category. That said, I have no issue with ebikes using existing trails that are approved for any other motorized travel, e.g. dirt bike, ATV, UTV- in fact, I would prefer them over the latter.
Jaquomo, you're wrong. A compound still has to be drawn. Just like a mountain bike has to be pedalled. Neither can do anything without someone or something putting energy in. An ebike has a battery and motor and will go on it's own. It's a motorized vehicle.
I can see it all now. Flatland hunters (like me) will get smart and pull a trailer (like for babies) behind their ebike (because its legal) with spare battery, climbers and go deep. It really helped closing roads to off road motor use, why push to get these legalized to go around the gates and burms. Next will be a three wheeler then four. I'm all for bikes but add assist and it will grow, just like crossbows.
Skookum, sorry, Class 1 assist bikes still have to be pedaled. Just like a mountain bike. Let's not lump all electric cycles together. Class 3 are more like crossbows if we want ro compare. And by law, they ARE classified as motorized.
Gears on a mountain bike and gears on an assist bike are exactly the same. Both are forms of engines. It is the force-multiplier of an assist bike that changes the two, just as the force multiplier of programmed cams on a compound bow make it a more efficient engine than the old compounds with 15% letoff, trad bows. Why isn't anyone shooting those 15% letoff bows anymore? Simple. Technology has now made them into 80-85% letoff, making them easier and faster.
And to Scrappy's point on the other thread, high-letoff bows used to be illegal almost everywhere until intense lobbying convinced policy makers to change the laws to acknowledge technology.
You guys can twist and construe however you wish to justify your choice of a compound. Thats fine, Just don't pretend it isn't something that it is, to make yourselves feel better.
Jaquomo, why are you pushing ebikes so much?? Something in it for you?
Big dose of CDS (crossbow derangement syndrome) in this thread, when the topic is e-bikes and compounds.
I approve of every legal item that allows sportsmen to enjoy the outdoors. If there is going to be infighting, it should occur while the item or practice is still in question - afterwards, we should band together. By the by, I've had two bikes during my lifetime - one I only recently purchased after a gentleman on Bowsite touted their utility for persons with old knees. Now, I bike 10 miles before my 2-4 mile runs - my thanks to Bowsite for keeping the weight off. That being said, I would hunt exclusively with traditional gear if compound bows were relegated to the gun season. This was a thought-provoking thread - thank you for it.
"Driving a vehicle to your hunting spot (on a road) and driving an e-bike on a trail that was designated as closed to motor vehicles are two different things." Exactly
And if the battery fails?? Where does that leave you. If you can use a pedal bike its really not that difficult. And no not everyone is shooting 85% let off with release, multiple stabilizers, range finders, lights, just because that's what the top shooter in the IBO or Bowfest "champions" use.
You don't understand what an engine is.
Apauls- anyone can become proficient with traditional equipment in short order. The skill is being able to get the deer within your proficient range. I have shot a bunch of deer under 10 yards and a lot of them were under 5 yards. How long does it take to get accurate at 5 yards? Even 10 yards ain’t too tough.
You guys can twist and construe however you wish to justify your choice of an EBIKE. Thats fine, Just don't pretend it isn't something that it is, to make yourselves feel better.
Recurve for me, I feel no disadvantage hunting except accuracy at long distance. As a ageing hunter I would welcome an E-bike.
I'd hunt gun season with my compound or a gun... like I do now. Yes, I'd pick up a recurve if I had to, because I love being out there in the early season when animals still move somewhat naturally.
Just wait until they come out with a bow that you can draw 5 times and then an electric motor draws it for you the next three times. (that would be a better comparison)
That said, Use an "E" bike if you want to if legal. I'd rather one of those go by me than a loud 4 wheeler if I'm hunting near an access road/trail.
E-bikes and compounds are for wimps:))
en·gine
/?enj?n/
noun "1. a machine with moving parts that converts power into motion."
Yes, I know what an "engine" is.
Teeton, not pushing ebikes, nothing in it for me. Pushing back against those who diss ebike users while themselves using machines to make hunting easier, and suggesting ebike riders have dildoes up our azzez.
I think if you use an ebike, you should be limited to stick bow only.
That should even everything out. ;-)
Way too much time on your all’s hands Lewis
i carry an old rotary phone, a globe, a slinky and a trash bag (in case the rain gets to settin in)...have not tried these dill-does, guess its a trad thing? whats difference in ebike mount vs 4wd mount? do they need batteries or propane?
People used to walk and or use horses to get to hunting areas. Now they have "assist horses" aka cars. If cars were banned would you walk or use horses?
I used be be trad only and was part of the "trad gang". For no apparent reason other than because I wanted to be. Like most on here, use the weapon that makes your hunt enjoyable. I don't care anymore what I use nor care what people think.
I hunt with an osage selfbow and cedars.
In Pa there a push from members of our own game commission to open up our Gamelands to ebikes. At present most Gamelands are closed to all bikes. To date I know of no hunting organization asking for ebikes. These lands were bought by hunting licenses sales, no tax dollars we're used to purchase them. There is 1.5 million acres of them in Pa and in many areas most of the public land is gamelands. Opening up gamelands to ebikes means to all bikes. Recreational Riders will be able to use the game lands in the off-season. In season only those with a hunting license would be able to use the lands. So buy a license and ride. It's now my understand if it's got any water a fishing license will do.
I hear that the ebike companies are the one asking for this and it's for are aging and handicapped Hunter. Hmm just like the xbow companies said.
How many on here would support the xbows for archery season by all in Colorado archery season?
Ed
Ps an engine makes power through internal combustion a motor uses electricity, what I win? :)
Sometimes I ride an ATV to the top of the mountain and hunt with my home made longbow. Other times I hike up and hunt with my 1000 yard rifle. Does that make me bi-traditional, elitist-fluid or a non-binary outdoorsperson?
Find us an accepted definition of an "engine" that includes "internal combustion". Google "engine". Here it is again:
en·gine /?enj?n/
noun
1. "a machine with moving parts that converts power into motion."
Compound Bow:
"In modern archery, a compound bow is a bow that uses a levering system, usually of cables and pulleys, to bend the limbs. ... The pulley/cam system grants the user a MECHANICAL ADVANTAGE."
Never shot a compound bow, longbow since 1954. I don’t care about how you get into the woods. At 73, I prefer to walk or use a mountain bike because I like the exercise and there is no battery in my legs to go dead. My wife wants an ebike and I am saving to get her one. I am fine with my MB.
I once squeezed a chipmunk to death with my bare hands!!!
I own a compound, a recurve, and an assist e-bike. I don't advocate using the bike in places where motor vehicles aren't allowed, but on existing roads they are worlds better than ATV's. They are quiet, they don't spook game, they don't stink, they are much easier on the trails, they're fun and you still get exercise. Plus you can haul stuff.
The search engine on my laptop is slow. Anyone know where how to access the spark plugs on a Microsoft Surface?
Ed, that interpretation is from Stack exchange. Has nothing to do with official engineering terminology. But nice try! A catapult is an engine too..
I'm good with the OP's original premise; A compound is easier than a stick bow, and an ebike is easier than a regular bike.
I do compound hunt during rifle season. Would gladly switch to longbow if required by regulations, and I walk to hunting spots (from where I parked the truck).
both devices provide a mechanical advantage. A compound only stores information you yourself provide. An ebike uses an outside energy source.
That being said, if an ebike is legal to use, some people are going to use them. Why not? For hauling out game, they can be considered the equivalent of a horse (well llama so far, but that will change). Some people like horses, some like bikes.
Ok whats the difference between a motor and a engine?
A "motor" supplies power in some form to an engine. Could be internal combustion, steam, electricity, wind, even water.
A compound bow is an engine. It is a product of advanced engineering technology that continues to provide increasing levels of "assist" to the user. A trad bow is not an engine, because it doesn't have moving parts.
My original point was that the assist-bike haters seem to hate them because they provide a technological assist to pedaling, of which they don't approve. Not talking about electric "motorbikes", which are a different animal. But on the other hand many seem to have no problem hunting with an engine that also provides a severe technological assist in continually increasing proportions (85% in many of today's bows).
My question was, if we throw out all assist technology - I left 4WDs out of the discussion - how many would be willing to revert back to non-assisted hunting tools.
But predictably, some tried to turn it into an assist-bike bashing thread once again. Straw Man, Red Herring, pick your diversion, when the simple question I asked was about assist-bows. Thanks to those who provided honest perspectives.
Jaquomo-I gotcha, basically a bowsite majority. I'm sure you know this but bowsite definitely doesn't come close to representing the majority of bow hunters in the country. While I also cannot point to a survey, study or whatever I'd be willing to bet the majority of bow toting (compound or trad) hunters in the country are pro "assist" or ebike.
Teeton Why can you not understand that Pa game lands are already open to regular bikes if you choose to use one but is illegal at present to use an E-bike, considered a motorized vehicle. How many regular bikes do you see when your hunting behind gated game land roads/trails? Probably none or very few. To infer that opening game lands to E-bikes is going to bring more recreational riders is rass backwards.
I love my e-bike and my compound, but I’d be fine with my horse and recurve, if the law dictated. Life is too short to worry about such nonsense.
Matt
Could I still use a "failure pile" or a "sadness spreader"?
Personally see nothing wrong with e-bikes being legal for travel. Wish I had one. Better than hearing an ATV going up trail 3/4 mile away while trying to kill elk
Here’s the thing on PA Game Lands. Mountain bikes are only permitted on clearly defined hard packed gravel roads. They are NOT going to be cutting new trails for the e-bikers.
With that said I do remember the damage mountain bikers caused in game lands in the mid to late 90s. The one game land near Mount Gretna had races scheduled over several years. They cut trails, damaged native trout stream banks, left a shit ton of trash. Best part was when they were told they were no longer welcome. The arrogance and entitlement was incredible.
I remember coming out from hunting at the end of the day, at one of our larger SGL’s, several m-bikers were gathered bitching about all the hunters. I introduced myself and mentioned that the land your are riding on was in fact paid for buy hunters and hunting license dollars. In other words you’re guests. Try to keep that in mind when you’re complaining about ****ing hunters.
So, there is a good bit of negative history with m-bikers on PA game lands.
With that said, I’ve put many miles in my m-bike on the trails that are open. Accessed trout streams that were a bit far to walk...smacked a doe on the ass as I coasted by and she was feeding.
As with x-bows in 2009, this isn’t being driven by hunters. It’s by the manufacturers trying to create a market. And for all the bitching and complaining about x-bows, PA bowhunters were quick to jump on board with a product they opposed. Well over half our archery kill is by x-bows. I suspect the same will happen with e-bikes.
I have to admit I did not read all the posts but I want to be totally honest. I hunt for many hours in a year. If I get a shot at game it takes a few seconds . Up until the string is released or the trigger pulled the hunt is virtually the same. I have a recurve bow and a long bow but I don't hunt with them because I am not confident enough with them to risk a wounding shot. Unless I am sure of a clean kill I would prefer not to take the shot. To those who look down on others because of their preferred tackle I have one question. How would you react to a neighbor who wounded six deer in a season so he could kill one right? I tend to be disgusted by such lack of regard for the deer and the real sportsmen.
A compound is actually very similar to a non-motorized geared bike. If I threw a motor on my compound to help me draw or aim, then it would be like an e-bike. I'm a hypocrite because I say no geared bikes in the woods, although unicycles are fine.
I'd pull out the recurve or possibly buy one with a slightly lighter draw weight and hope like hell I could achieve something I could live with in terms of accuracy. Past experience says that is going to be a tough road with the amount of time I have available in my current lifestyle. I feel like I'm reading one of John Sloan's posts on how crossbows are a disadvantage to the compound. We all ain't as good as we once was.
If you ever doubt how good we have it, pull up threads like this. Through most of recorded history, issues like dying while out on a hunt or having access to hunt at all were the issues hunters confronted. Now, we get to focus our energy on the minutia of artifice, means and methods.
Only the tragically deprived or hyper-indulged eat their own and, given modern hunting is certainly not in a state of deprivation, we must be the latter. So, congratulations fellas. We've got it good.
dumb and inaccurate comparison and question
I hunt with recurves. I also hunt with rifles, shotguns and a muzzle-loader when appropriate. I have no issue with compounds because the skill set of archery translate from sticks to wheelbows. The crossbow is different - it takes the skill set of a rifle shooter, NOT an archer, to use one effectively.
As for electric bikes, I'd love one! (And my brother the mountain biker would laugh at me but then, he plays golf...)
I would have no problem with a recurve and will be using mine this fall for a change. I still wish Iowa would switch to sidelock muzzle loaders and no scopes. That season was a lot more fun 20 years ago when it was actually a challenge and no one did it. (atleast in my area)
I didn’t read all the posts but I’ve always said I’d gladly shoot a recurve if archery was traditional only. That said it’s not going to happen and as much as I dislike crossbows they are good for hunting recruitment. Personally I don’t care who uses an ebike, I might use one if they weren’t 2 grand. Any new tech is going to be generally unaccepted just as compounds were in the beginning. Where I’ve elk hunted I can’t imagine trying to navigate a bike over the random deadfall on trails and brush that’s crowded in. Now if I could draw my preferred NM unit it has a lot of closed roads and would be a different story. When that happens I’ll take my wife’s huffy with a fat seat, lol.
A few notes after reading some posts...(1) Glunt is definitely a trans-hunter. (2)I’ve worked around plenty of motors and engines and I’ve never once heard someone call an electric motor an engine. I’ve heard a few people call an engine a motor but that’s mostly people that don’t know what they are talking about. ;) (3)Those also saying assist where it’s supposed to be non motorized is a slippery slope are spot on imo. Be careful as your “bike” trail might be a motorcycle trail if the assisted crowd keeps pushing.
These threads are starting to look a lot like the Covid-19 debates going on in Facebook.... I'm going to ride my e-bike down to the range and shoot my crossbow now. ;-) Have Fun! Kip
So, why do they call it "motor oil" and not "engine oil?" I'm so confused ;-)
Matt
Whatever your weapon of choice, or your means of getting into the woods, be sure to have an inReach!
If I rode a bike alone on mountain trails I’d definitely have an inreach. Now that I think about it riding a bike on a mountain trail seams like something that someone would do only if they hate their family. ;)
"I once squeezed a chipmunk to death with my bare hands!!!", probably baited....
As a bowhunter and a life long mountain biker, I would disagree with the analogy. The single speed bicycle is the traditional bow The mountain bike is the compound bow The e-bike is the, I don't really know, the crossbow, or maybe even the modern rifle.
I have no problems with e-bikes, I hope some places are just off limits to things with motors, I don't want to get into if they are under 750 watts. Just no motors in some places.
I do even like some places, like wilderness that is no bikes period. I think all forms of travel have their time and place. All recreational users groups should have their place. Lets just not confuse things, if it has a motor, then it has a motor and some places just shouldn't have motors
We all have our own thresholds of what we consider "acceptable" technology in the woods. For some it is a carbon fiber bow with dual programmed cams and 85% letoff, fiber optic range finding compensating sight, engineered dropaway rest, etc, etc., laser rangefinders, satellite communicator, remote HD trail cams, on and on, and that's all fine.
But if someone uses something they personally disapprove of, they get their $200 Sitka underwear in a bunch and start spewing the insults, the name calling, and personal denigration. What is it about human nature that causes some of us to behave this way? Fear? Ignorance? Arrogance?
For those old enough to remember, this was exactly what went on when compound bows began to be popular. I guess we can be thankful there was no social media back then, so the insults and wild claims about they would destroy bowhunting (or that compound shooters used dildoes, were sissies looking for the easy crutch - which all trad hunters know is true...) were made in person and via actual written letters, vs. web posts from semi-anonymous keyboard tough guys in their Sitka pajamas who are incapable of taking a step back and viewing things from a different perspective.
Some of the most vehement compound bashers I knew back then are shooting compounds now. And so it goes.
Social media hasn't helped civility in our society. But it's here to stay so we may as well accept that it can be a forum for healthy debate, as well as a platform for some to proudly display their (fill in the blank).
BTW, for those of you smart enough to figure it out, this thread had nothing to do with a true apples-apples comparison of assist bikes vs. compounds. Instead, it was about perspective. Some of you actually got that.
"they get their $200 Sitka underwear in a bunch"
Nothing is free. You use an ebike, you have to charge it. That means you buy electricity which you work for. I don’t buy electricity but I work to buy the food to fuel my legs. We can get really crazy here if we put our out of season, bored stiff, had enough of friggen winter minds to it.
I just bought a brand new bow. Putting on some of my new Sitka clothing to go outside and shoot, hoping to gain some new perspective.
Just found out our school potentially has been exposed to Corina. I guess I need to self quarantine, which will give me plenty of time to debate and be a key board tough guy and call you all some names;-)
I find that Kuiu underwear bunch far less than Sitka, and they are less noisy. ;-)
Matt
If public lands weren't already overcrowded, no one would even care.
I absolutely 100% agree with the premise of this thread. People tend to "pick" their technology, and call it the "right way", based on their own usage. So, if a guy uses game cams, he's all for them. If he doesn't use an e bike, he's against it. If he uses a compound, he's all for them. The fact is, a beginner can learn to shoot proficiently with a compound out to 50 yards in a week. That would be "cheating" for a lot of trad shooters. It's all in your perspective. I try real hard with a trad bow and have had some moderate success. I also shoot a compound when I want to cheat. ;) And, I ride an ebike.
billygoat, good point. But I bet there is not one person out there with an ebike thinking to themselves, "Gee, I have this bike, so I think I'll take up bowhunting".
OTOH, there are plenty of rifle hunters who think, "Gee, those compound bows look pretty easy to shoot. I think I'll take up bowhunting".
Perspective.
Yes Matt, but they don't absorb odors like cigarette smoke.
;-)
The limbs of the traditional bow don't move and store energy? Hmmm, interesting.
OTOH, there are plenty of rifle hunters who think, "Gee, those x-bows look pretty easy to shoot. I think I'll take up bowhunting".
FTFY. At least that's how it worked in PA.
Traditional bows are more of a primitive "machine" than an "engine" by definition. See below. Engines have moving parts. Bow limbs flex to store energy, but they don't move in concert with the riser. But you missed the point of the thread.
ma·chine /m??SH?n/
noun
an apparatus using or applying mechanical power and having several parts, each with a definite function and together performing a particular task.
A bow and arrow aren't 2 parts? I didn't realize they weren't separate.
A recurve bow is a simple machine that propels a projectile (arrow) from energy stored in the fixed limbs.
A compound bow is an engine (coordinated moving parts working in concert to create a force multiplier) which also propels a projectile.
Now, back to coronavirus...
Colorado up to 101 cases and 1 death. Vail closes all of it's ski resorts and stores.
I've hunted quite a few different places out west. I can only think of one place that the ebike might have been a bit of an advantage....a 2 mile stretch of closed road that wouldn't have been much of a challenge to peddle on a regular fat tire or MTB.
Compared to a 4 wheeler which is a HUGE advantage in most of the places I've hunted, I don't see a big impact with these ebikes.
I wonder how many guys that have responded to this thread have actually rode a e-bike. It doesn't really get me places where I can't make it on my regular mountain bike, it just gets me there faster. Where i hunt in Western Washington, I still have to get off my bike in some places to push because it is so steep. Try it before you bash it.
So basically this post is about , If you do not like what I like, I may not like what you like. Cmon! I am a bowhunter and have been for over 50years. My choice of a compound over traditional is a personal one because of my respect for the quarry I persue to insure the most effective and accurate shot. I say that knowing it would not be possible for me with traditional gear. I bowhunt because of the CHALLENGE involved. If I wanted easy the crossbow or gun is available. People embrace the electric motorcycle because it is EASIER than walking. For those who look forward to their use during hunting seasons, prepare to be joined at your honey holes with the bunny huggers, hikers, backpackers, campers etc. by those who will now have easier access to those areas along with you. Just an older sitka wearing compound bowhunter.
While I have zero problems with e-bikes, I think the comparison is way off base, I have hunted with both compound [and still do] as well as traditional, I cant shoot trad anymore do to some shoulder and tendon issues, a compound does not do the work for you, an e-bike will do a lot of the work for you. I understand how some feel about the e-bike issue, the same that I understand the crossbow issue, but one thing is for sure, you have an influx of people who start out using both because of laziness, not all but most, and then after a few years that curve goes way down. why? because lazy will always be lazy, and there is nothing that will ever make hunting easy, there are things that make it easier for people with limitations, but it still wont make it easy, and it will not put the game animal in your lap.
les596, thanks for helping to make my point. You shoot a compound because it is EASIER than mastering a trad bow. Meaning, you are too lazy to do it. But then you diss other hunters who ride pedal-assist bikes, calling them "electric motorcycles", because you claim they are EASIER.
The premise of the thread is exactly about guys like you. "My technology is great because, because, because (name your excuse), but you are a pussy for using technology of which I don't approve.
And...if not for compound bows, my honeyholes wouldn't be overrun with guys like you. Think about that..........
Thanks for chiming in!
So, it's irresponsible to not embrace technologies like InReach, laser range finders, etc...but embracing e-bikes is just being lazy? Interesting.
I also agree that most people who object to e-bikes probably have never ridden one. My e-bike was an investment in my physical fitness, just like a piece of workout equipment in my basement, only much more enjoyable to use. The fact that it will extend my hunting range without alerting game is just an added benefit.
Now, I'm going throw on my pink spandex cycling shorts and take a long e-bike ride. ;-)
Matt
Lou- if they are “your” honeyholes then you should have the guys arrested for trespassing
No problem, recurve. Jaq, you created a welcome distraction for about 20 minutes.
1booner, I was paraphrasing les596. I almost never see anyone else in "my" honeyholes, compound, trad, ebike, MTB, muzzleloader or otherwise, because they are too close to county roads and ATV trails..
The basis of this thread is some sort of misguided ratiinalization.
The compound is the equivalent of a geared bike (versus a single speed), not of an e-bike. The e-bike is more akin to a crossbow.
If compounds were only allowed in rifle season, i would buy a recurve and slap a 3 pin sight, peep, adjustable rest, and stabilizer on it and shoot it with a release.
The ebike is only an advantage over a pedal bike in a very limited area. The compound and xbow are an advantage over a stick bow everywhere.
Matt, rationalize it however it fits your agenda. Others see it differently. That's the point of the thread - addressed to the "my technology is fine, yours makes you lazy" crowd.
Of course directly comparing a compound engine to an assist-bike is not valid. It was used to make a point. Some, like Midwest, got it, some did not.
Well, that was another fun 10 miles on my e-bike. Broke a nice sweat and burned a bunch of calories. Now, I'm enjoying that after workout energy high, and the satisfaction of doing something healthy for my body. Haters be damned. .... ;-)
Matt
An e-bike is legit for recreational use, if you need it or want it for the supposed fun factor. It is totally not legit for hunting. It is cheating, like Ozonics and Rage broadheads. Pope and Young should not allow entries if an e-bike was used.
Went to town for social distancing supplies. 8 miles. Now I think I’ll shoot my compound bow.
Jaq, if you cherry pick the defition of an engine by overly simplifying it such that it loses its meaning as you have, sure, it makes sense.
If one was to apply a more accurate and commonly held definition of an engine such as "a machine designed to convert one form of energy into mechanical energy.", your position falls flat. Unless of course you can point out where do I add gas or plug in a battery on my compound.
Matt, I used the Oxford dictionary definition. Didn't cherry-pick anything. A compound bow is an engine of coordinated moving parts that that apply a force-multiplier to what would be simple stored energy. A trebuchet was also a force-multiplier engine that didn't require spark plugs or motor oil. But that's splitting hairs and not germane to the question.
My point of this whole thread is that haters of certain types technological assist readily embrace other forms technological assist, while insulting those who use (their) unapproved aids. So I asked, if an "approved" technologically advanced device were outlawed, how many would revert back to a more demanding bow type to keep bowhunting.
I used compounds and assist-bikes as examples because of current Bowsite threads where some hypocritical jerks have showed their asses. But I could have substituted trail cams, Inreach, Ozonics, Nose Jammer, ATVs, laser rangefinding sights, laser rangefinders, pick your poison.
Wow, such thin skin. I should have started a "somebody said something nasty about me as a millenial hunter/BHA member/ sitka fan-boy/ 2020 BGSS draw-only proponent." But I didn't.
I love hunting with a compound, mostly because my old man told me I'd never kill anything with a stick. I was the first generation of 5 in this state to kill an elk with a bow. It was hard earned -- every elk, mule deer, bear, lion, and antelope has been hard earned.
And, I can't wait to see how my hunting evolves with a 58# longbow from my father in law. Groups are good, but I'm not there yet. With some work, I hope to at least pass along the skills to my daughter/son and maybe they can be the first of 6 generations to kill something with a "true" bow. So, yes, I'd give up the compound for long bow because I'm already looking at that horizon.
Now, to the question, is a compound bow similar to an e-bike on some level? Sure, of course, absolutely. As some have pointed out, it improves existing efficiencies. On my bow, I hold something like 18 lbs (!!!) but I get the benefit of momentum and kinetic generated by 67(ish) pounds. Yes, I still need to pass the draw force, but the irreducible conclusion is that I can hold a compound bow for longer than I could a long bow. I also wear sitka, use a rangefinder, have flashy bright pins, have goretex boots, fancy boy rain gear, a stove that weighs less than a coffee mug, and a bag made of the finest duck money can buy.
But I still have a problem with e-bikes and it's not because the analogy between compounds and e-bikes isn't somewhat correct. Its because its just one more way that habitat gets mangled and guys/gals entitlement to access gets legitimized. Sure, every guy/gal on here is responsible and would NEVER do anything illegal, but the fact of the matter, is these things get you further, faster, and trails beget more trails beget more trails. And no, they won't be enforced, monitored etc. And, oh my god, if I hear the "let's see how you sing when you're knees give out" bull shit I'm going to vomit. The mountains don't owe me, you, or anyone else anything. That's just life.
If my shoulders can't draw my bow, and my knees give out, then I'll tell my kids of the giants in the deep places that I can no longer go and hope they'll tell me the stories when they come out. Same as I do for my dad. So e-bikes for me? Nah. I'm good.
"If compounds were only allowed in rifle season, i would buy a recurve and slap a 3 pin sight, peep, adjustable rest, and stabilizer on it and shoot it with a release."
yeeuup
Ahhh, chasewild, good to see you! Where do you mount the dildo on your self-righteous pedestal?
Chasewild- that was eloquently arrogant. You must hunt alone a lot.
Enjoy your ebike Jaq.
If compounds were outlawed in Colorado, I would pick other states to hunt that had not yet done so. I like what Brun said regarding ebikes as what he is saying seems very practical. The only thing that bothers me about ebikes is that I think that they may be addictive as my son owns three of them and family/friends love to ride them.
I have never bashed e-bikes. Don’t have one and haven’t tried one yet.
I don’t bash compounds - although I do sometimes rib guys for hunting with them;-) Don’t have any wheel bows myself either.
Heck, I don’t even own a trail camera!
I would be all in for having traditional bow only seasons. Would be absolutely thrilled to have primitive only seasons selfbows and stone points, whoohoo! But that’s illegal in my state even though we no longer have any archery only days in the field and have to share the woods with rifle hunters every day of the “archery” season...
Still say, once you figure it out, a 2-piece long bow is the ultimate tool for bowhunting...
No issues with twisted limbs, much less likely to delaminate and no tools to lose like with most take-down recurves...
No sights to bump, releases to lose, cams to get out of tune, rests to break, peep sights to twist, or harnesses to come off the cams like a compound...
Hell, with all that can go wrong with a compound, I cannot figure out how anyone ever kills anything with those contraptions!
Now, if Lou will just loan me that e-bike (and a map of his secret honey holes) I’ll slip in there and skewer a few of his elk with my longbow;-)
Let me get this straight.........................So a compound bow is now an “engine”, but an e-bike that actually HAS one is “non-motorized?!”
Good grief, why is it so difficult to understand that Lou's engine analogy wasn't the point of this thread. The point, which seems to elude some of you, is e-bikes are just another form of technology that can assist a hunter, just like a compound bow, laser rangefinder, InReach, ATV, high tech backpacking equipment etc, etc....People who object to using e-bikes, but readily embrace using other forms of technological assist aides are being hypocritical.
Savvy?
Matt
A compound bow is a nonmotorized engine by Oxford dictionary definition. (Although many trad guys refer to them as "motorcycle bows"). Class 1-2 assist bikes are "nonmotorized" engines by federal definition.
I dunno. I don't make the rules. I'm just a humble messenger.
Lol this cracks me up. You have guys using the definition from the government for one item and the dictionary for another. Talk about apples to apples.
An E bike is a motorized bike according to the dictionary. They are allowed on non motorized roads/trails.
I learned that people that use a compound are hypocrites if they don’t agree with the use of E bikes. So are people that use E bikes hypocrites if they don’t agree with the use Xbows, Air bows, or E bows in archery season?
Just curious. Cause I don’t want to be a hypocrite.
Bingo Brandon
"An E bike is a motorized bike according to the dictionary. They are allowed on non motorized roads/trails"
One early poster mentioned nobody was pushing for ebikes on roads/trails that weren't already open to motorized...WRONG! The ENTIRE point of this thread is justifying/praising/applauding that ebikes are/will be allowed on trails that are only open to mountain bikes.
How's this analogy? Take the Canmore Bow Zone. Bows only. We wouldn't want to allow rifles (motors) but let's allow muzzleloaders (a "little motor")? It's not a full-blown motor (rifle)...
"I learned that people that use a compound are hypocrites if they don’t agree with the use of E bikes. So are people that use E bikes hypocrites if they don’t agree with the use Xbows, Air bows, or E bows in archery season?"
I support using any technology that is deemed legal. Not that I necessarily would use certain technologies, but I support other people's rights to do so within the limits of the law. If you don't like the laws that allow certain technologies, advocate to get them changed. Until then, acknowledge the rights of others to use legal technologies that you might not approve of.
Matt
"How's this analogy? Take the Canmore Bow Zone. Bows only. We wouldn't want to allow x-bows (motors) but let's allow compounds (a "little motor")? It's not a full-blown motor ..."
You see how your analogy falls apart simply by substituting a few words?
Perspective....
Matt
“I support using any technology that is deemed legal. Not that I necessarily would use certain technologies, but I support other people's rights to do so within the limits of the law. If you don't like the laws that allow certain technologies, advocate to get them changed. Until then, acknowledge the rights of others to use legal technologies that you might not approve of.
Matt”
I was asking if I was a hypocrite for not agreeing. Not if I should support what’s legal. Because a poster above called people hypocrites if they use compounds but don’t agree with E bikes being used on roads/trails closed to motorized vehicles. Even though according to the dictionary an E bike is motorized.
I am loving this thread.
I was going to point out that Catapults and Trebuchets were early force multipliers, but Lou beat me to the punch.
Built a very cool trebuchet once but I think my son's 4th-grade teacher was pretty sure he didn't do it alone. That sucker could throw a tennis ball a couple of hundred feet!
It seems like some on here are just mad because Lou is making them think ... To answer the question: I'd hunt with my recurve, I would certainly have to spend a lot more hours /deer hunting. I have been shooting stick bows more lately anyway, so far what I have to show for it is mostly a lot of respect for those who do it well.
Does Ozonics make a pedal-powered version? Asking for a friend.
We’ve come a long way baby. Don’t stop now.
"Because a poster above called people hypocrites if they use compounds but don’t agree with E bikes being used on roads/trails closed to motorized vehicles."
I can not find anywhere that he states this. He is only pointing out that one person picks his/her technological advancement, yet tries to condemn another's. The compound bow has done far more to aid the taking of big game animals than an e-bike ever will.
Funny thing; I’ve made the same argument and ended with the same question a BUNCH of times and all I got was abuse... when my posts weren’t deleted.
JMO, you put a ban on high let-off OR mechanical releases OR laser rangefinders, and you could probably cut archery tag sales in half. I’d be 100% in favor of any or all of those measures, BTW...
Here in CT, our shotgun-season tag sales have tanked, because with a crossbow, you get 4 1/2 MONTHS to hunt instead of about a week (oh, and did I mention THE RUT???), and with a weapon which (on paper, at least, and certainly in the marketing hype) gives up just about ZILCH to a slug rifle.
And by the time a lot of these newly-minted “bowhunters” figure out that it’s not quite that simple, the state may have scrapped the shotgun season for lack of interest...
For those opposed to e-bikes, are you opposed to them whole-heartedly or just for use on non-motorized trails?
If all atv/utv/motorcycle users, to include myself, used them, it could be a big benefit in some instances.
"Ahhh, chasewild, good to see you! Where do you mount the dildo on your self-righteous pedestal?"
Right next to the pictures of animals you're not killing, Jaq.
Hold up guys...………………………………………………….I need more popcorn! ;-)
Access is a big word in the hunting world. Access to private land. Access to landlocked public land. Access to fly in only hunting. Regardless of the tool you use to get the job done you won’t be using it in a place you can’t access. Also the type of weapon a hunter uses doesn’t create the level of user conflict that access does. So the affects of motorized method of transportation far exceed the ones of advancements in weapons. My 2 cents. Keep in mind I’m talking about elk hunting in places where busting ass can set you free. I don’t usually weigh in on the subject because if anyone tried using any type of vehicle where I hunt they’d end up in the obituaries not at the game check station.
I'm building a really big catapolt to access your spots Joe, but a hand cranked one not battery powered.
never hunted or own compound, re curve bow since 1970. if i had a compound i switch
A sexton is a GPS not a range finder
OD you're right he didn't say they were hypocrites. He said they were being hypocritical. My bad.
So the question stands. Am I being hypocritical if I don't think X bows should be allowed during archery season? Just like I'm being hypocritical if I think something with a motor should not be allowed on non motorized roads/trails?
Nowhere in this thread is there mention of pushing for assist bikes to be used on nonmotorized trails. That has nothing to do with this discussion.
Chasewild, if you have ever read many of my dozens of feature articles in the major national and international bowhunting magazines, you would see plenty of photos of record class animals of many species I've killed with longbows and recurves. You started the insults with your grade school playground B.S. Time for you to grow up.
Branden - the point I was making was he never said they should be allowed on a non-motorized trail. I can't find one instance that he said that. And my personal stance is that if compounds are allowed in an archery season, I don't see the point of why crossbows aren't. You probably never grew up in an era that didn't allow them. The point here is everyone is picking their technology and saying "we don't want to allow the others because we don't use it". Again, the compound bow has been the number one reason you have had these high success rates in archery and this many people moving into archery seasons. If you don't believe it, go get a recurve and hunt with it. And I'm not saying they should be outlawed, just saying it is a matter of perspective.
On a happy note, the sap is running and I am boiling. Now back to the program.
This sounds like a big discussion about a "slippery slope" argument.
"Because they allowed an easier method with compounds, , we should allow an easier method with motorized bikes!"
They would be a great tool where motorized bikes are legal, but to argue that they should be considered non-motorized because compounds are easy too is dumb.
Well in Pa ebike co's are pushing to open all game lands to all bikes. In my area it posted no bikes. If the ebike co have there way. Those signs will be coming down.
There is over 1.5 million acres of gamelands in Pa, about 315 total different gamelands.. In areas like where in live most of area open to hunting is game lands.
The reason I'm against them, no hunt organization that I know of ask for them and there also try to open up the gamelands to recreational Riders, nonhunters..
So tell me what's in it for the ebike companies if gameland get open to them??
Just like xbow companies said, it's for the handicapped and aging Hunters. :) But if they get it through it will be for all ages.
This thread is about justifying someone's reason 4 using e bike. So they tried to compare it to the compound bow that most of us use.
So if you want me to sign on the the ebike bandwagon. I'll write a letter in support of xbows in the Colorado archery season you supporters sign it and I'll send it to the Colorado Dow. You do one for Pa ebikes and I'll sign it.
Respectfully Ed R
Great thread. Twist and turns and hidden meanings on a topic that truly means nothing and is so unimportant BUT sparks the intelectual reflexes of a few.
I loved it
Interesting how many know the "reason" for this thread. And are so off-base. I simply wanted to make people take a step back and think about technology before ramming-it to others for using something of which they don't approve. Maybe take a step back for a moment. I know that is difficult for many, as self-absorbed as some are.
I only used assist-bikes as an example because they seem to bring out the venom and personal insults. But I could have substituted remote trail cameras, laser range finders, pick your favorite crutch.
To those who try to project some ulterior motive onto me- you are way off base. You may think you're clairvoyant, but I have sad news for you. You aren't... I ride my assist-bike where it is legal, use it for fun, fitness, (there are hundreds of miles of LEGAL backcountry trails I can access from my house). When I use it for hunting on public land, same thing, except I can ride around deadfalls and lift it over some, allowing me to get beyond where ATVs can LEGALLY go.
So get over it. Take a step back for a moment, get down off your podium, and think about the texhnology we use every day to make our lives easier.
I thought I remember you mentioning in other threads that you've purposefully rode in illegal places to see if you'd get ticketed?
Two and a half years ago, yes, on closed logging roads. Found out the USFS in our area didnt care. But that was just an experiment.
Lou, your analogy is not perfect, but your point is definitely valid.
Oh, and I got my Sitka underwear (Merino Wool Longjohns) off of Camofire and they were only like $60 and worth every penny. Pretty sure they've made the difference between sleep and no sleep on quite a few nights. I think I'm gonna buy you a pair and I'll bet you'll wear them! (I just need to find them in size Jolly Green Giant)
I leave you all with this: It’s 2020. It matters not what you are - engine or motor. Only what you think you are.
Now that's funny right there. I don't care who you are...
lmao @ Idyl. "They were immediately banned from bicycle racing." Isn't that the truth.
I really don't get the whole anti-ebike movement. Literally the ONLY advantage it has on an every day mountain bike is speed, and potentially daily range. BUT if a trail gets at ALL TECHNICAL an ebike is much much harder to navigate down a trail. There are many places a $200 mountain bike can go that an ebike can not. There are NO places an ebike can go that a mountain bike can not.
An ebike is like a recurve, it's easy to carry further faster, but when it comes down to making a difficult shot, I'd rather have a compound. If I need to navigate a tricky trail I'd rather have a regular mountain bike ;)
"The Horror. . . . The Horror. . . . "
PECO thinks that's funny.
The reality is, very few hunters use mountain bikes to access hunting areas. E-bikes aren't going to change that. A few smart hunters will realize the fitness and stealth benefits of e-bikes. The rest will continue to spook game out of the county with their 4x4s and ATVs.
Much ado about nothing.
Matt
“Branden - the point I was making was he never said they should be allowed on a non-motorized trail. I can't find one instance that he said that. And my personal stance is that if compounds are allowed in an archery season, I don't see the point of why crossbows aren't. You probably never grew up in an era that didn't allow them. The point here is everyone is picking their technology and saying "we don't want to allow the others because we don't use it". Again, the compound bow has been the number one reason you have had these high success rates in archery and this many people moving into archery seasons. If you don't believe it, go get a recurve and hunt with it. And I'm not saying they should be outlawed, just saying it is a matter of perspective.”
I guess I took it for granted. Why anyone would care if someone used an e bike on roads/trails open to motorized vehicles is beyond me.
"Why anyone would care if someone used an e bike on roads/trails open to motorized vehicles is beyond me."
Because some are terrified that they may be legalized on non-motorized trails where other bikes are allowed, like what is happening in many states (including CO), and now on Deparment or Interior land. And as the USFS Regional Trails Supervisor told me, he believes their TMR will be amended sooner than later.
So for those who fear their use will intrude on "their" hunting spots, it is a valid concern.
Just as those of us who started bowhunting in the late 60's and early '70s feared that compound bows would make it easier to bowhunt attract hordes to our then-uncrowded woods. Which we all know didn't happen....
Lou where are you on the whole Catapult vs Trebuchet thing? Atlatl vs Sling vs Spear?
Should there be separate seasons for each or do we lump them all in together? And since that trail runner killed a lion with his bare hands, maybe we'll need another classification still.
So confusing, but at least we all have the time to ponder this stuff what with hunting seasons over and fishing not really going yet, and then there's the whole Corona thing keeping us inside.
I've never seen anyone post saying they shouldn't be allowed on roads/trails open to motorized vehicles. But I could have missed it.
Only on roads/trails closed to motorized vehicles.
"Why anyone would care if someone used an e bike on roads/trails open to motorized vehicles is beyond me." That's what I was thinking but Jaq also makes a valid point about what is actually happening.
Virtually nobody is concerned with ebikes being used on roads/trails open to motorized vehicles.
The concern is the beginning trend to define ebikes (with motor assist smaller than a given size) the same as a standard 100% leg powered mountain bike.
Lou and others are giddy that a little motor is in the process of becoming legal where previously no motor was allowed. And those of us that disagree are divisive uneducated trouble makers afraid of "progress" and wanting to go back to the dark ages...
I will admit that I am happy they are gradually becoming accepted. Just as compound bow enthusiasts were happy they were legalized and accepted.
I don't think you are "divisive, uneducated troublemakers". That's over simplifying. You just love the technology you embrace to make your life and your hunt easier, but don't like the technology others may want for the same reason.
Which is the entire premise of this thread.
So an incremental process of easier is fine? But a big jump is not? I.e. if a rule came out "zero limitations to off road vehicular travel by any means", that would be "bad" even though it would make it easier for everyone, but "a little motor where none used to be allowed" is progressive thinking and reasonable. Got it.
I guess it’s not a big deal. A motorized bike allowed on non motorized roads/trails. I see the light. I guess I should support mountain bikes in wilderness areas also. I mean I use lighter weight technology to access it by foot. So since I embrace DCF tarp use in WA’s I should embrace mountain bikes in WA’s also.
Got it. Makes sense. Thanks for the lesson.
"You started the insults with your grade school playground B.S. Time for you to grow up."
Good lord Jaq. Do a quick search of your history my man! Every thread is you trolling young guys that have a different perspective than yours on season structure, or elk tactics, or millennials, or BHA, yada yada . The second someone throws the word "dildo" out about ebikes you come unglued!
No worries, though. I'll bow out. Good luck this spring and fall.
I'm not sure that going from no letoff and estimating distance, to 85% letoff and programmed cams that will propel a hunting arrow 330 fps, with laser rangefinding sights, is "incremental", but I guess all depends on what prism we are viewing through.
Branden, you should support whatever extreme technological advances make hunting easier for YOU, and stop worrying about others.
Chasewild- so what someone else does gives you the right to be a first rate arrogant jackleg? I would expect more than a condescending attitude from a BHA representative. If BHA members are anything like you I will reconsider my membership. You do BHA no favors. Grow up man.
I'm pretty sure that recurve and longbow limbs, especially glass backed limbs are force multipliers! Just saying
This thread is a force multiplier to occupy some of my time while waiting on turkey season.
I guess it’s not a big deal. A motorized bike allowed on non motorized roads/trails. I see the light. I guess I should support mountain bikes in wilderness areas also. I mean I use lighter weight technology to access it by foot. So since I embrace DCF tarp use in WA’s I should embrace mountain bikes in WA’s also.
Got it. Makes sense. Thanks for the lesson.
Scoped and cocked crossbows for all are fairly rapidly getting accepted across many states general archery seasons.
I would would use a recurve, but I'd put a f'ing sight on it, like 95 or more percent should also do!
95% of em should only take shots under 10 yards. I wish the compound guys would only take shots to 25 yards. Crossbow guys should be 40 yards and muzzleloader and shotgun to 100 yards and rifles to 300. Sometimes you don’t always get what you want
Muzzleloaders should be open sights, no scopes. Shots under 80 yards only.
^^^ yep, but as 1booner quoted and the great philosophers Jagger and Richards wrote.....
I have NO PROBLEM with quiet, little electric motors being permitted where big, noisy, smelly gasoline-powered motors are allowed. It’s this business of saying that some motors aren’t actually Motors that I can’t abide in good conscience. It’s right in there with saying that an athlete with intact/functioning testicles should be cleared to compete in Women’s events at the Olympics. I have 2 friends with kids who don’t feel like the check-mark on their birth certificates reflect who they think they are, and you’d have to be a first-class ASS to not have some sympathy for everything that these kids have to deal with for being different in a way that so many people just can’t deal with. But it doesn’t make a male athlete a female athlete or vice-versa, and the same is true of bows and motors.
Now that's the best analogy I have heard yet...………………………………………….
I'm all for whatever it takes to keep our sport alive so my grand kids have at least some of the opportunities I had.
But for the sake of this conversation... If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...it's got a motor.
I have a serious question. . . . I don't really have a dog in this fight, as I don't own an assist bike. . . .
Are the rules prohibiting motors on certain trails or in certain areas to prevent additional people from using the area. . . . . Or to prevent damage to habitat?
Bake,
I would assume that those rules were written with both of those in mind. Keeping a larger number of persons out will in turn keep environmental damage to a minimum.
One person with a dirt bike can do a ton of damage over time. Likewise a hundred horses would do as much or more damage in a short period of time.
Bake I likewise don't know. They sort of go hand in hand. Much like Wilderness (capital W) there are rules in place to limit technology.
But we need to be very careful not to fall into the slippery statement "ebikes have the same or less impact to the trails as mountain bikes".
Even assuming that's true (which I don't believe based on one ebike having been ridden on my local mountain bike trails), if the only criteria is impact to trails then a chute plane or helicopter has less impact to Wilderness than a mule train. But doesn't make those an acceptable way to access Wilderness.
The grass is always greener for a reason. Archery tags are typically easier to draw, and often the time of year for hunting is better. BECAUSE archery hunting is HARDER. How can bubba, a rifle hunter, get a piece of that greenery? Xbows of course!
The single track mountain bike/hiking trail has some pretty tough hills that make it not worthwhile to lug a mountain bike. How can someone who isn't physically capable get a piece of that? Why ebikes of course!
Not bad, GF. Now for a different perspective. In the 5 year season structure public meetings, a CPW official said, (quoting as closely as I recall) "Bow seasons were established for primitive weapons. What you guys are shooting are NOT primitive weapons. You shoot accurately out to 100 yards. You can call them what you want, but they aren't primitive weapons, and I'm not sure they're even "bows" anymore.
Perspective.
Many pilot programs have shown that low pressure fat tire ebikes do less damage to trails than higher pressure, thinner tires MTBs.
"The single track mountain bike/hiking trail has some pretty tough hills that make it not worthwhile to lug a mountain bike. How can someone who isn't physically capable get a piece of that? Why ebikes of course!"
This displays the typical ignorance to e-bikes from someone who probably has never ridden one. A 750 W motor doesn't turn an MTB into a motorcycle. You still have to pedal an e-bike. If a trail isn't doable on a MTB, it's probably not going to be doable on an e-bike either. E-bikes won't make an average Joe Hunter, with a dickydoo belly, into a mountain scaling beast, trust me.
And again I ask, how many of you do use, or have used, a MTB for hunting, especially in the western mountains? Personally, I've only seen a few hunters on MTBs in 50 years of hunting in Colorado. I don't think a 750W motor is going to significantly change that.
Matt
That tranny analogy above is spot on.
Motorized bicycles where motorized vehicles aren’t allowed.
Trannies playing sports where they aren’t allowed to as their natural gender.
So try to convince people they are something different then they are. Copy copy.
The real question is Lou can you ride them with your weapon uncased with that stealthy quiet motor they'll never hear you coming ,unlike riding a noisy atv with it cased. They need to charge for their use just like atv s since they do have a motor/engine. 25.00 in colo Plus there will be that soothing sound of the generator at camp recharging them at night. I'm in!??
Danbow, no, they are not licensed in CO because they are not considered motorized by state law. Bows are not required to be cased either. So the state doesn't require registration, even on National Forest. If you can stop your bike and get your compound bow off the back of your pack, load an arrow, engage your laser rangefinder, draw, engage the correct pin and make the shot before the animal runs off, you are a god among men.
What, exactly, is your point, CompoundDan? Did you not comprehend the premise of this thread? That has nothing to do with the "real question"
Dear Lord.
"Lou where are you on the whole Catapult vs Trebuchet thing? Atlatl vs Sling vs Spear? Should there be separate seasons for each or do we lump them all in together?"
Catapults and Trebuchets should definitely have their own seasons. But catapults are definitely more trad.
(No offense Ace, much respect :)
Lou I don't shoot a compound I choose to prefer a challenge
How did I not see this thread sooner. If any of you are considering an electric hunting bike this season, I literally wrote the book on them. Attached is the link to download the PDF copy if you are curious.
Be Safe!
Thanks for providing the link, John! You missed an outbreak of EDS - Ebike Derangement Syndrome.
Good for you, Danbow. I hope you have continued success with your trad bow, although I'm not sure how much of a "challenge" it is for an accomplished woodsman who knows how to get close to animals.
"To put it simply, an eBike can be your unfair advantage when you’re hunting. The advantage now isn’t with the person who is the fittest, but with the person who can cover the most ground."
"To put it simply, an eBike can be your unfair advantage when you’re hunting. The advantage now isn’t with the person who is the fittest, but with the person who can cover the most ground."
I bet you 90% of the people that make uneducated comments like this one have never even ridden an e-bike. Fact is, an ebike can't go 99% of the places posters think they can.
Taking this back to the premise of the thread:
To put it simply, a compound bow can be your unfair advantage when you’re hunting. The advantage now isn’t with the person who is the best hunter and woodsman, but with the person who can shoot the furthest with extreme accuracy."
See how easy that was?!
The way that Colorado has gone with respect to archery seasons is very disappointing and disturbing.
September “archery season” has as many or more rifle and muzzle loader hunters out there than bowhunters.
A large number of units have been made draw for archery while still having unlimited OTC rifle tags.
Maybe if we were limited to traditional bows we could actually have archery only seasons again...
"However, now you can climb on an electric hunting bike that can move at twenty or thirty miles an hour without pedalling. You can cover that five miles in fifteen minutes as opposed to hours while still carrying all of your gear."
Quoted directly from the beginning of the book...
Hey outdoordan,
"I bet you 90% of the people that make uneducated comments like this one have never even ridden an e-bike. Fact is, an ebike can't go 99% of the places posters think they can."
Good to know that the guy who wrote the book and is selling e-bikes is "uneducated" and has never rode one.
"To put it simply, an eBike can be your unfair advantage when you’re hunting. The advantage now isn’t with the person who is the fittest, but with the person who can cover the most ground."
This is out of the book, that the guy wrote who is selling e-bikes for hunting. Not just some bullshit I made up because I am "uneducated and never rode one."
LOL! I think eBike John just blew some people right out of the water! BOOM! ;-)
I started ANOTHER thread because this is not what was meant to be debated on this one.
No different than what the makers and sellers of compound bows say about their products. "Fastest, most accurate, most advanced, lightest, smoothest, optimizing advanced engineering technology to produce the most shootable bows ever made".
To the original premise of this thread: "Me technology good, you technology bad". Deny it, ignore it, justify it however it works for you....
