Enemy of my enemy
General Topic
I'm behind on my reading, so I just read an article in the Nov. Dec. Western Hunter that addressed wild horses and burros. The writer described an Arizona group that included ranchers, state , and federal reps as well as a fellow from the Center For Biological Diversity. The point of the piece was CFBD was going to file a law suit in a certain area because government officials allowed mustangs to ruin the environment in an area inhabited by some species of mouse protected by the endangered species act. While as stated, CFBD is at odds with sportsman most of the time, they may act in our favor in this case even if not their goal. Horses are important to many of us, but like any other thing without check or balances they become toxic. I would be nice if the same argument could be used against wolves. Not much on internet research, but nice read if you can find it.
Interesting other invasive species are not considered part of biological diversity.
8point- what endangered species do you think wolves are negatively impacting on a population scale? I personally can’t think of any.
There an old joke in the biology world asking “what happens when one endangered species eats another endangered species?”
"Horses are important to many of us, but like any other thing without check or balances they become toxic. I would be nice if the same argument could be used against wolves."
KSflatlander, He didn't say anything about wolves impacting an endangered species. Rest assured though.....if anything negative is said about wolves you will be there to defend the wolf's honor.
If unchecked, I bet wolves would make a run at endangering shiras moose !!
It only took 3 posts, Bowfreak!
Uhhh, yes he did. "I would be nice if the same argument could be used against wolves."
8point brings up a interesting point and a good post showing how complex wildlife management can get. I was simply asking if he could think of a wolf conflict with another endangered species since the was the basis for the lawsuit...other species affecting endangered species. And wildwilderness brings up a good point.
Bowfreak- did you actually read the OP and link posted?
Back to the original post, I have no love for horses, especially FERAL horses and burros. I lived in the west for many years and hunted around them, and saw the negative impact (I’ve been followed by a FERAL stallion while bowhunting, had to throw rocks at it to get it to go away. I wish I had a blunt to pop it in the head but didn’t. I was really tempted to SSS!. If allowed I would be the first one volunteering to eradicate them!
Yes...I did? Did you? Read this again.
"Horses are important to many of us, but like any other thing without check or balances they become toxic. I would be nice if the same argument could be used against wolves."
So....agreeing that wolves are important but without checks and balances they become toxic.
Your wolf defense alarm is just hyper sensitive I guess.
"I’ve been filled by a FERAL stallion while bowhunting,..."
Sounds painful. Do your friends call you Catherine?
Would these be the Heber Horses? Notice they also mentioned elk too. So not my friend.
Terry
Haha, auto correct- I fixed it to “followed”
""I’ve been filled by a FERAL stallion while bowhunting,..." Sounds painful. Do your friends call you Catherine?" LOL!
I didn't read the article but i love horses, one of my favorite animals in fact. But, I don't like feral horses and its ridiculous what the taxpayers are spending in support of the Wild and Free-Roaming Horses and Burros Act of 1971. Everyone should be pissed off about it.
KSflatlander, Memory isn't as good as it could be, but I seems I read that the introduction of wolves was a main contributor to the failure of the re-population attempts for the mountain caribou. I'm sure CFBD would never fall for that one, but IMO it would be nice, just sayin.
Seems getting into bed with your enemy is quite popular with some orgs.......
For me it just gives nightmares of nude images of a Hillary or Pelosi....... or in other words.... hell no.....don't ever overlook the fact they would use this same "mouse" against you in a NY (cough, cough...) minute....
You see, it's not actually the feral horses they think are evil......
I'm with you TD. The same groups would shut down hunting in an instant if they could put forth a concern that hunting activities were interfering with the breeding season of said mouse...
That act needs to be amended or rescinded. Burrows should be eliminated and we can keep a small population of stallions somewhere for the horse worshipers so they can live their ridiculous invasive specie fantasy. Otherwise, they should be culled. They're destroying the Southwest corner of the U.S.
Feral horses are destroying vast amounts of habitat for many native animals. Hard to believe they didn't bring up sage grouse as a species that is being impacted by feral horses.
In areas around Phoenix, the feral/released horses are causing significant erosion and have to be impacting endangered and threatened species. The "wild" horses around Phoenix were not there 20 years ago and the herds keep expanding due to people letting their pets that they can't deal with loose.
The costs to the taxpayers for allowing these invasive species to continue to exist on our public lands is astronomical.
Sign me up for the culling operation!
Big dan was surrounded nightly in the sw desert unit in Utah elk hunting at a waterhole by 50 or so wild horses. Listening him talk about those encounters was something else he said his hair stood on end watching those stallions fight over the water. Thier not nice creatures!!!!!! I’m sure one of those helicopter hog shooting operations could put a dent in culling them
KSflatlander, it’s off the main horse topic but do some reading on wolves killing off the endangered Alberta woodland caribou. And wolves kill off and permanently suppress many big game populations and reduce biodiversity. You can read all about that if you look up Dr. Valerius Giest’s published biological work.
Mike- I don’t want to hijack this thread so see the link if your interested.
In Colorado we have two non native species that in a rational society would be treated with the same regulations. Both are non-indigenous, both are expanding their range rapidly and both are clearly detrimental to native species.....One of these two species can be killed at any time, by any method, by any person, in any numbers, with no license required. Open warfare against the Eurasian Dove. The other, the feral "Wild" horse is completely protected by an act of congress. Like I said... If we lived in a rational society.
In Colorado we have two non native species that in a rational society would be treated with the same regulations. Both are non-indigenous, both are expanding their range rapidly and both are clearly detrimental to native species.....One of these two species can be killed at any time, by any method, by any person, in any numbers, with no license required. Open warfare against the Eurasian Dove. The other, the feral "Wild" horse is completely protected by an act of congress. Like I said... If we lived in a rational society.
How about those ring-neck pheasants? Or maybe all of those imported from Africa to hunt? Oh and sika deer. Of course we should eliminate all those also.
“ I was really tempted to SSS!.”
What, with your poop-hole hand trowel?? You’re an ambitious man! LOL
Less funny: I wonder what happens when a guy shoots a feral horse on a self-defense basis? Because I can see a territorial stallion causing a person some difficulties, and if anything as big and well-armed as a horse isn’t afraid of me, I’m not dumb enough to think that I have nothing to fear...
Of course, I never hunt without some blunts.... Not that I’d shoot a horse with a steel one, but maybe a rubber one if I needed something just short of a broadhead...
KS, none of those you mentioned are doing the kind of damage to desert ecosystems that the burrows/horses are. But yeah, none of them belong. They're just not doing the kind of damage that the burrows/horses are. The main thing is that all those species you mentioned are being hunted. The burrows/horses are not.
Maybe get some wolves on the wild ponies. When they eat them up, POTUS have the wolves delisted and on the shoot on sight menu.
Maybe first the Exec Order Ivanka signs in Jan 2025?
HH~
